November 16, 2017

"If Al Franken stays in the Senate, the odds of Roy Moore getting elected go way up."

Says Scott Adams in this Periscope.

Alabamans may think: "If you're not going to clean your house, Democrats, we're going to ignore it too."

ADDED: Reverse the hypothetical. If Al Franken resigns, everyone will have to resign — everyone who's done at least as bad. There must be quite a few members of Congress who know what happened to Al can happen to them.

204 comments:

1 – 200 of 204   Newer›   Newest»
eric said...

This is why they've punted to an "ethics investigation" it allows them to continue to focus on Roy Moore and do nothing about Menendez or Franken.

stutefish said...

That's one of the motivators for the Trump vote, I think. After decades of tacit acceptance of any kind of sexual impropriety on the left, combined with aggressive preaching against any kind of sexual impropriety to the rest of the country, I think a lot of people finally got to the point of "you know what? Fuck it." If President Clinton can be a sexual predator, then why even bother pretending? Here, have Trump."

Now we're in an ironic situation where the Evil Conservatives just don't give a shit about the progressive sermons anymore, and the progressives are suddenly the only ones vulnerable to the witch hunt they've been promoting all these years.

Martin said...

Maybe. But Adams is presupposing some sort of rough symmetry, and it seems to me that in general Republicans and Southerners take these things more seriously that Northern liberals, after accounting for both sides' inclination to support their own tribe.

So it would not be inconsistent for liberal Democrats to rally around Franken while Southern Republicans abandon Moore.

So, maybe the odds of Moore winning go up a little, but "way up" seems a stretch.

Bay Area Guy said...

The Missouri Compromise, as I recall from High school civics, allowed 1 slave state (Missouri) into the Union, and 1 free state (Maine) so as to not alter the balance of power.

Perhaps, we could do the Senatorial equivalent here: Allow 1 left-wing Senatorial groper (Franken) to stay, and elect 1 right-wing Senatorial groper (Moore) to come aboard.

This would preserve groping equilibrium between the parties in this esteemed Congressional body.

Sharc 65 said...

So Moore's next move should be to volunteer for an ethics investigation after taking office. I'm sure that would end the discussion about him, right?

David Baker said...

There's a stampede going on out there.

zipity said...

If recent history teaches us anything, this is likely just the first shoe to drop.

Stay tuned.

Kristian Holvoet said...

But Adams is presupposing some sort of rough symmetry, and it seems to me that in general Republicans and Southerners take these things more seriously that Northern liberals, after accounting for both sides' inclination to support their own tribe.

The Southerners also don't like them damn Yankees pulling airs and telling them what to do (and who to vote for), especially when the Yanks are full of chicken shit.

Kristian Holvoet said...

If recent history teaches us anything, this is likely just the first shoe to drop.

This first show dropped weeks ago.

Also, note the bill Sen Who? Oh, right, Sen Menendez (Crook-NJ, err, D-NJ), is sponsoring re: not being able to deduct payoffs if there is a non-disclosure agreement. Wonder what that is about?

readering said...

Boy, talk about snap conclusions. This info has only been available a few hours.

donald said...

Kristian, as as Southern as a red neck as you will fine, yep.

Funny how these imbecilic Yankees and fellow travelers have no clue.

Caroline Walker said...

Grope-a-palooza May backfire. The “accusations” are getting wispy thin. Men must be baffled: I can’t think of a one who would take affront at some strange woman grabbing ass. The pile on is making women look like humorless scolds.

donald said...

So you don’t know the new rules huh Readering?

Earnest Prole said...

I read Melanie Morgan's account of her interaction with Franken, and while it's harassment it's not sexual harassment. It's going to take another accuser or he'll be able to brazen it out.

Drago said...

readering: "Boy, talk about snap conclusions. This info has only been available a few hours"

LOL

Yeah, a lefty just wrote that.

Without irony.

Drago said...

Earnest Prole: "It's going to take another accuser or he'll be able to brazen it out"

Democrats have been known to "brazen" out actual rape and manslaughter.

So, yeah, you're probably right.

n.n said...

Alleged actions by Moore.

Documented actions by Franken while she was unconscious, with one intention: to either humiliate or make her feel vulnerable.

Anyway, Pro-Choice. The progressive liberals need to lose their religion. Now is a good time to repent... for friendship with benefits (e.g. "casting couch" relationships), for shaming girls who do not have sex before marriage or after the second date, and the millions of baby trials annually.

donald said...

Don’t think That’s gonna be a problem Prole. He worked at SNL. Women were there to be abused. Cause you know, per the Kong’s f comedy they weren’t funny.

LYNNDH said...

And the Republicans should just STFU if Grab Hands Al stays in the Senate. I see that there are those on the Left that are defending him, so whats good for the Dems is surly good for the Rep. Right?

PackerBronco said...

Al is safe unless he leaves a woman to drown in his car in which case the voters will ... oh, we're talking about Democrat voters ...

donald said...

Erm: per the kings of comedy (All the real
Comedians, the guys)...

David Baker said...

I'm losing track, anyone have a list?

Bay Area Guy said...

George HW Bush keeps grabbing ass

When will this groping madness end?

Every woman who has ever had their ass grabbed or titty groped in the past, say, 25 years, please speak up now!

Trumpit said...

What Roy Moore did is 1000x worse than what Al Franken did. Also, Al Franken is funny and Roy Moore is not. Only a whack job or a partisan hack would try to compare the two.

Drago said...

Trumpit: "What Roy Moore did is 1000x worse than what Al Franken did."

Correction: What Roy Moore is accused of might, or might not be, worse that what Al Franken has already admitted to.

Franken Must Go.

Trumpit: "Also, Al Franken is funny and Roy Moore is not."

There you go Inga. One of your lefty fan boys is already in full Franken defense mode.

Perhaps now would be a good time for you to explain to him/her why he/she is wrong about Franken.

LOL

Thorley Winston said...

I read Melanie Morgan's account of her interaction with Franken, and while it's harassment it's not sexual harassment. It's going to take another accuser or he'll be able to brazen it out.

I disagree, if anything Morgan’s accusation is worse because she claims that Franken (contrary to network policy) got her home phone number and called her up and harassed her at home. He put her at fear for her safety and that’s not something he’s going to be able to pass off as a “joke.”

JRoberts said...

I have co-workers from Alabama and their response?

"Damn Yankees need to mind their own business. This is for Alabama voters to decide, not Mitch McConnell"

Bay Area Guy said...

What Roy Moore did is 1000x worse than what Al Franken did. Also, Al Franken is funny and Roy Moore is not. Only a whack job or a partisan hack would try to compare the two.

And, what Bill Clinton did to Juanita Broaderick was 1000x worse that what either Moore or Franken did. What's your point?

Michael K said...

Unless Allred volunteers that yearbook for examination by a competent forensics person, and it proves the ink was the year she says, Moore is a shoo-in.

So far, the most serious allegation looks like revenge for his ruling against her in her divorce case and forgery using the signature on the court decision. Including, of course, the clerk's initials "DA>"

I think he is kind of a nut but he will have plenty of company in the Senate.

I think Allred, by now, at least, knows it is a forgery,

Greg said...

For those of you (Ken B) defending or minimizing Franken's behaviour, what would happen to you if you were out with a coworker at a social event in this scenario? At some point your coworker falls asleep in a chair so you decide to take a picture of yourself pretending to grope her breast. This picture is widely distributed at your workplace.

Susan said...

A wise man once said, "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone."

Pious virtue signalling is NOT the same as being without sin - as the left is discovering to their great dismay.

The Godfather said...

I think some folks fail to appreciate the extent to which conservatives just don’t believe what the media “reports” about conservatives. And for good reason. You have allegations from 40 years ago, some of which are trivial even if true (a 30ish single guy liked dating teens who were over the age of consent), and the worst of which are he said she said. And the Party of Bill Clinton wants to steal a Senate seat on this. And the media is playing this up even more than the Russian “collusion” story. Why believe it?

Peter said...

@ Caroline Walker

Agreed, although probably not for a while. We (i.e. complainants, the MSM and social media) are starting to lump together not just different degrees of offensive behavior, but different problems. It started off about women being assaulted or harassed by people with power over their careers, but at warp-speed this was connected to gay groping of minors, child-dating and hustling, mistreatment by colleagues, sexist comedy, etc. I'm all for driving most of these perps out of public life, but if this net gets much wider, I'm going to start feeling left out.

BTW, once again we're looking at clumsy, creepy behavior--the antithesis of what used to be called seduction. Does anyone else share my suspicion that a lot of these men were inspired by porn?

Mike said...

Exactly right Godfather.

dreams said...

Mitch McConnell has behaved shamefully regarding Roy Moore, stupid Republicans.

Nyamujal said...

"The Southerners also don't like them damn Yankees pulling airs and telling them what to do (and who to vote for), especially when the Yanks are full of chicken shit."

Southerners - Making dumb decisions out of nothing but sheer spite for over 200 years.

Earnest Prole said...

if anything Morgan’s accusation is worse because she claims that Franken (contrary to network policy) got her home phone number and called her up and harassed her at home

Franken didn't work for the network, and sexual harassment without the sex is called "being an asshole." If that's the new standard, three-fourths of the Senate must resign.

wwww said...



This statement doesn't make any kind of political sense. The election in AL happens very soon, right? The senate doesn't do anything fast. There's no way senators expel Franken before the election.

You know, the senate doesn't have tons of time to get a vote count on expelling a senator. There's a lot of stuff on their plate. Isn't there going to be a budget shutdown at Christmas unless they get their shit together?

Anyways, here's a common sense perspective:

(1) Predators, rapists and child molesters exist across political ideologies and religions. In fact, they often don't have political ideologies or sincere religious beliefs. They use institutions and ideological structures to mask their behaviour. They are predators, and they need to hide their behaviour because they look for victims to assault. They know they need to hide their behaviour, as they are hunters and predators.

(2) Assholes exist across political ideologies and religions. They use positions of power to enable and continue their shitty behaviour, as they enjoy acting like assholes.

(3) It's important to distinguish between predators and assholes. Their behaviour can overlap at the edges, but they aren't identical.



Drago said...

Nyamujal: "Southerners - Making dumb decisions out of nothing but sheer spite for over 200 years."

I have it on good authority that Al Franken is from Minnesota.

Ron Winkleheimer said...

This is Steve Bannon letting McConnell know that two can play at the personal destruction game. He went for a Democrat this time, but the next one could be a Republican if necessary.

pacwest said...

"Unless Allred volunteers that yearbook for examination by a competent forensics person, and it proves the ink was the year she says, Moore is a shoo-in."

I said this on the last thread, but again:
Moore left the perfect opportunity to bury his election possibilities. The fact that Allred didn't jump all over it speaks volumes.

readering said...

Moore's "divorce case" defense has been debunked by a review of the court records.

Kirk Parker said...

Althouse,

"If Al Franken resigns, everyone will have to resign — everyone who's done at least as bad. There must be quite a few members of Congress who know what happened to Al can happen to them"

Wow, this clearing-out-the-swamp business is happening a lot faster than I expected.


Caroline W.,

"The pile on is making women look like humorless scolds."

And.....?

Jim Gust said...

Slate is calling on Franken to resign. This might have legs.

Browndog said...

First of all, Franken is staying in the Senate.

Second of all.....there is no second of all.

Gahrie said...

"The pile on is making women look like humorless scolds."

Perhaps because women are often humorless scolds.....

Etienne said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Gahrie said...

Predators, rapists and child molesters exist across political ideologies and religions...Assholes exist across political ideologies and religions. They use positions of power to enable and continue their shitty behaviour, as they enjoy acting like assholes.

The problem is, Republicans generally reject Republicans who are predators and assholes, while Democrats protect Democratic predators and assholes.

Matthew Sablan said...

"Now we're in an ironic situation where the Evil Conservatives just don't give a shit about the progressive sermons anymore, and the progressives are suddenly the only ones vulnerable to the witch hunt they've been promoting all these years. "

-- I think conservatives have just upped their level of proof being demanded. Pics or it didn't happen.

faf said...

Yikes! You people n what riles u up! What a shout on! Anyhoo....Roy Moore is a pedophile, Al Franken isn't. U right wing turkeys r asking 4 a lesson, so calm ur bitch lies down. Pedophile....not pedophile....It's a blatant n trashy spirit of nothing to take ur approach. Stupid lies made u bitches, aha! N no I don't like Al Franken, but u r butthurt lie whores leaping after distractions. Fuck u

Matthew Sablan said...

"I disagree, if anything Morgan’s accusation is worse because she claims that Franken (contrary to network policy) got her home phone number and called her up and harassed her at home."

-- Guys get fired from McDonalds for doing that crap.

Matthew Sablan said...

"Southerners - Making dumb decisions out of nothing but sheer spite for over 200 years."

-- To be fair, it is the American way. We have a whole style of architecture called the Spite House.

Browndog said...

I am very uncomfortable with many that demand Franken be kicked out of the Senate.

Sure, you can allow the pitchfork brigade to dictate who and why an elected official is removed from office. Sure, you can use the left's Alinsky tactics against them, and keep lowering the bar. Do you really think you can win this war? Do you think you can out-accuse and out-demand the left? And, to what end?

I get the revenge factor. They put one of ours in the hospital, we put one of theirs in the morgue. This is no way for a society to police itself, let alone run a government.

Etienne said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
AllenS said...

Don't worry about us, Browndog, we can think for ourselves.

Gusty Winds said...

All men should thank the good lord, or modern technology for the rapid development of the sex robot.

Browndog said...

AllenS said...

Don't worry about us, Browndog, we can think for ourselves.


Which collective do you speak for?

readering said...

From report on Tweeden:

At the press conference, she told reporters the following: “The apology — sure, I accept it. People make mistakes and of course he knew he made a mistake, and so yes, I do accept that apology. The ethics investigation — if that’s what Mitch McConnell wants to do, that’s on them. I’m not calling for that… I’m not demanding for any of that.”

Will said...

And the housecleaning should start with NJ Senator Menendez, who is jumping from the "sold my seat for jet trips and vacations" frying pan into the "Menenndez only likes the youngest girls" underage prostitution-for-votes fire...

Check his trial transcripts...

Wilbur said...

"Only a whack job or a partisan hack would try to compare the two. "

You mean like you just did? Whoever's writing your talking points needs to be more precise with their language.

Crazy Jane said...


At this point, the Democrats are hoping Moore will be elected, which sets up a perverse challenge to Republicans. If they don't get the guy to back out, every comment about Bill or Hillary or Al Franken or medga-donor Harvey Weinstein will be met with, "But Roy Moore." I don't know too much about Alabama, but the "deplorables" there may be just angry enough to elect him, again.

I have no use for women inflating small slights, but I'm getting tired of the all-men-are-monsters smear too. There are three kinds of men. The honorable ones. The opportunistic ones who, given an opportunity, will seize it. And the flat-out abusers, into which category we must assign guys who hit on tween girls, especially if they used their political authority to impose threats.

The men in my family are honorable. My father, my husband, my brothers, our cousins, our in-laws and our children; all of them. I used to take this sort of thing for granted. No longer.

rhhardin said...

When was the discussion held that decided that harassing women was a public problem?

Rather than a personal moral failing, a business practice, or for that matter a courtship thing.

I suspect a mob action. Anger is fun. Somebody takes ownership of the new public problem and gets political power.

An undiscussed problem promoted to public.

pacwest said...

Browndog, that sounds good in a perfect world. Unfortunately we don't live in that world. In our world a blatant crook was nearly elected POTUS. A rapist remained POTUS. A corrupt administration spent 8 years in power. Civility from one side, or leading by example will not work. It is not revenge, it is the necessity of fighting fire with fire. I wish it weren't so.

John said...

Worth repeating:

Don't forget that Franken was (is?) happy about murdering gays (or "homosexuals" as the called/calls them)

"Hey, I was glad when that Pudding homosexual got killed in Philadelphia."

And note that, after having said that, he didn't say to the interviewer "Errr... Perhaps don't quote me on that." No, he doubled down and said:

"Put that in, put that in," Franken laughed, leaning over the desk. "I'd love to see that in The Crimson."

John Henry

rhhardin said...

Theodore Roethke's Last Class, first 4 pages viewable, in which he categorizes the mental space of his charges teaching poetry at a women's college.

These are what women's concerns are, aptly described by a male poet.

Jim at said...

Do you think you can out-accuse and out-demand the left? And, to what end?

Fuck them. War.

It's long past time the left gets it good and hard. Just like they've doing to the right for all these years.

And if it ends up being a smoldering crater when all is said and done? Fine by me.

Qwinn said...

"They put one of ours in the hospital, we put one of theirs in the morgue."

That's the Chicago way, and that's what Obama practiced for 8 years.

No one on the Right is suggesting that.

We'd just like to see a stop to "They put one of ours in the hospital, another one in the morgue, and worst case scenario for them, the guy who did it has a cushy job in academia for life."

No one's suggesting escalation. But screw this surrendering every possible chance one can do so either.

rhhardin said...

Hey the babe was a Playboy model. That may have suggested to Franken that she'd be available for some fun, Franken not realizing that Playboy model is a business not a hobby.

He's a victim of the strip club fantasy. It looks like a sexual context but is actually a business context. They maintain the fantasy as far as possible, but not into reality.

rhhardin said...

Comedian on the other hand is both a business and a hobby. Franken failed to realize the difference in other fields.

Amadeus 48 said...

I don't think Al is going to resign. I don't think Roy Moore is going to withdraw. Did Anthony Wiener? Did Bill Clinton? Did Ted Kennedy? It doesn't work that way. These people hold on to office and power with a death grip. Bob Packwood did resign, but that was after Clarence Thomas but before Bill Clinton. (Note to Althouse: the Thomas/Packwood/Clinton arc proves your point about what the professional feminist agenda became: drive out the Republicans and defend the Democrats).

mikeski said...

"If that's the new standard, three-fourths of the Senate must resign."

Clearly, we need a tougher standard.

Browndog said...

Crazy Jane said...

Men are honorable. Men are wicked. So are women. Gender has nothing to do with it.

The morality crisis in this country manifests itself in ways that are seen and unseen. There was a time, not long ago, when men took off their hat to address a woman.

Unknown said...

As AA pointed out yesterday in her post about Gloria Steinem liberals have been telling conservatives for years that they shouldn't pay attention to personal failings like this, and just maybe conservatives are following their advice.

mikeski said...

"Also, Al Franken is funny and Roy Moore is not."

So you can do what Al is doing in the previous posts' picture, as long as you make a comical "honk-honk!" noise while doing it?

Had I only known this when I was younger...

Trumpit said...

"Only a whack job or a partisan hack would try to compare the two. "

Wilbur, I stand corrected. I should have said, "Only a whack job or a partisan hack would try to *equate* the two." Thank you for catching that.

sdharms said...

"what happened to Al" don't you mean "what Al did and it was finally reported publicly"?

MikeR said...

"everyone will have to resign". Perfect. That's what I want, and I am not the least bit concerned that Republicans will come out on the short end.

Trumpit said...

"Also, Al Franken is funny and Roy Moore is not."

"So you can do what Al is doing in the previous posts' picture, as long as you make a comical "honk-honk!" noise while doing it?

Had I only known this when I was younger..."

You make a point, although a sense of humor is very important for a human being nonetheless. True that Bill Cosby could be funny, but what he did to numerous women should get him locked up for life. One of Al Franken's good qualities is his sense of humor. Roy Moore is a humorless piece of garbage. Trump has a weak sense of humor, which is superficial and infantile for the most part; he also has a negative record in dealing with women by his own words and actions. I also consider him human refuse.

David said...

"If Al Franken resigns, everyone will have to resign —"

I felt a thrill at that thought but quickly overwhelmed by reality.

Browndog said...

How did that mocking Ozzie & Harriet, free love, flowers in our hair, burn our bras hippy generation work out?

Moore attempting to date of age girls is pedophilia, while actual pedophilia is a conspiracy theory. We are constantly bombarded with inconsistencies with regards to morals and laws, and are ostracized for noticing.

The left has long ago declared war on the white Christian heterosexual male. Many are just now noticing, just as al Qaida declare war on America in the 1990's, but didn't notice until 2001.

So, now we're ready for war. A war we'll never fight, but our kids, grand kids surely will.

It may be time to water the tree of Liberty with American blood, all I ask is that the latest Salem Witch Hunt of "groping" not be the catalyst.

Crazy Jane said...


Bob Packwood, a Republican, was a known "skirt chaser" in Oregon for years before the WaPo outed him. A friend of my sister was and intern in his office in the late 80s; she was told on the first day, "Never be alone in a room with him."

In fact, he did not resign until 1995, three years after the expose; his pro-choice stance may have worked in his favor, but people in the state were furious with him and the local press for not covering the story.

The Washington Post ran its report in December 1992, six weeks after Packwood's re-election in a state with a Democratic governor. That the same paper ran its Roy Moore story after he won the Alabama primary tends to suggest that it considers timing when taking its shots.

bgates said...

"They put one of ours in the hospital, we put one of theirs in the morgue."

...

No one on the Right is suggesting that.


I think it's worth remembering that during the past six months, they literally put two of ours in the hospital.

bgates said...

I don't know if Franken's behavior violated Senate norms, but it would be enough to get him thrown out of any junior college in America.

Static Ping said...

"If Al Franken resigns, everyone will have to resign — everyone who's done at least as bad."

You say like that is a bad thing.

Etienne said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Ambrose said...

. . . everyone will have to resign —

You say that like it's a bad thing.

Matthew Sablan said...

Everyone will have to resign? Is this a pro or con?

gg6 said...

ALTHOUSE says: "There must be quite a few members of Congress who know what happened to Al can happen to them"
Really?! "quite a few"? "must"? Really?
Well, if you actually KNOW that this MUST be true, you must feel an obligation to name them - please do...then the board will really light up! :-(

Mary Beth said...

faf said...

It's not often that you get to read an erudite, well-reasoned point-of-view like that.

AReasonableMan said...

The claim is that Franken 'groped' a women in the presence of multiple witnesses and a photographer. This is an unlikely claim, given the circumstances. The physical evidence provided to support this claim, the photograph, does not support the claim of groping. There is an obvious discrepancy between what the photograph shows and what Leeann Tweeden claims it shows, which undermines her credibility.

Jupiter said...

Etienne said...
"Fox news has the Franken picture on the left, and some woman with her tits hanging out on the right."

Yeah, I've been noticing this. You click on a Drudge link to one of those UK papers, and there, in hideous detail, is the latest awful thing some sex-crazed guy did to some unfortunate woman. What gets into these assholes? And all down the side of the page are images of nearly-naked women, which they took themselves and published on the net. According to the captions, their bellies are "taut", their asses are "peachy" or "pert", their assets are "ample". They "shared" these images with their "fans". Huh. Hope no one gets the wrong idea. But if someone does, string 'im up!

Browndog said...

Franken was not a member of the Senate when these events took place. Congress has no role in any investigation, other that to change existing laws.

The Senate is already prepared to remove Moore from the Senate based on allegations. Congress, on whole, is willing to remove the President of the United States based on allegations. Removing Franken would set a precedent, a catalyst, to make those actions more palatable to the public.

Mitch McConnell said "I believe the women. Moore should step aside." Congratulations, you just insured only women will be elected as republicans to the U.S. Senate.

this business will get out of control. It will get out of control, and we'll be lucky to live through it.

Matthew Sablan said...

Photos weren't enough to bring down John Edward until the National Enquirer forced him out. The evidence required sure seems slanted. This is coming from me, and I'm persuadable that Moore did it. Test the dann yearbook.

Michael K said...

Trumpit has this all figured out. If he thinks you are funny, you are OK.

Of course the only people he thinks are funny are leftist grifters who steal elections but that's OK.

Another source of amusement trumpit. I think you are funnier than Franken.

The only good role I saw him do was the baggage handler in "Trading Places." He looked like he belonged there.

Drago said...

ARM moves expeditiously to the "attack the victims" strategem which we were just informed, by the likes of Franken and the other lefties, was utterly unacceptable.

Earnest Prole said...

The dopey commenters nattering on about “war” and “the morgue” sound like they still live in their mother’s basement.

Matthew Sablan said...

ARM - Franken admitted and apologized for groping her. He denied the kiss. Please at least know the ground facts before opining. The picture is clear he touched her in her sleep.

rykscoogan said...

Good.

AllenS said...

We never had to worry about Obama doing this stuff. He knew that if he had, his wife would have kicked his scrawny ass.

Matthew Sablan said...

For the people who think it was fine because of the vest, I'd like you to try "all I felt was your thick sweater and bra. I did not grope you." Because I'm curious how that argument ends.

AReasonableMan said...

Matthew Sablan said...
Franken admitted and apologized for groping her.


Could you point to where Al Franken said, "I am sorry for groping you.'

Matthew Sablan said...

"I licked the boots while she was asleep sure, but I didn't touch any skin, so we're good." <-- Valid argument if you think Franken touching the sleeping woman is ok.

Matthew Sablan said...

ARM You... You're really using the magic words defense? He was accused of two things. Groping and kissing. He denied one and apologized for the other.

AReasonableMan said...

New Poll Is Really Bad News For Roy Moore

Matthew Sablan said...

Notably not even Franken is trying to pretend he didn't do exactly what the photo shows him doing. I'm just surprised so many people are defending it.

Browndog said...

If you listened to her account, she said Franken did this, and took the photo knowing she would see it later as revenge because she rebuffed his kiss.

AReasonableMan said...

Either you lied when you said, " Franken admitted and apologized for groping her." or Franken said, "I am sorry for groping you'.

Only two possibilities here.

Matthew Sablan said...

You've read the statement he put out. Right? Or are you going to insist on him needing to utter magic words instead of reading what he said and understanding it?

exiledonmainstreet said...

And, what Bill Clinton did to Juanita Broaderick was 1000x worse that what either Moore or Franken did. "

And what Teddy Kennedy did to Mary Jo was 1000X worse than that. Because Broaderick didn't spend her last moments desperately trying to get out of a submerged car after a Dem pol had abandoned her.

AReasonableMan said...

So you lied?

Matthew Sablan said...

No. I didn't say he used the magic phrase. I said he admitted it and apologized. Which an honest reading of his statement shows. How do you interpret it otherwise?

AReasonableMan said...

You just lied again. You actually said, "Franken admitted and apologized for groping her."

Matthew Sablan said...

Have you read his statement ARM?

Browndog said...

Obviously Franken was not feeling up her tits. He was humiliating her. Openly.
While she slept.

donald said...

I’ve seen Al Franken’s writing and comedic career since
1975.

He was in this one sketch about the Vandals sometime in the 90’s I think in which he played a young dullard vandal kinda sorta.

That was his peak. He has never been funny.

Matthew Sablan said...

Because that is a perfectly accurate paraphrase of it. Be denied the kiss and apologizes for everything else she accused him of.

Matthew Sablan said...

The better defense if Franken is that he was doing crude physical humor. It wasn't sexual. Which is his actual defense. He thought grabbing her in her sleep would be funny. He's realized he was wrong and apologized.

Browndog said...

Franken apologized?

-The photo was a joke. (comedian immunity)
-She remembered the kiss wrong. (dismembered)

It wasn't until he got crushed on twitter that he 'revised' his apology.

AllenS said...

Right before the picture was taken, Franken asked her: "Does this cloth smell like chloroform"?

Angel-Dyne said...

Amadeus 48: I don't think Al is going to resign. I don't think Roy Moore is going to withdraw. Did Anthony Wiener? Did Bill Clinton? Did Ted Kennedy? It doesn't work that way.

Hmmm, I dunno. The way things are going (assorted libs getting all hand-wringey about Billy Jeff and all), maybe the frenzy won't run its course until they dig up the Lion of the Senate and go all Cromwell on his harassing ass, lol.

Matthew Sablan said...

If Franken cared about women he'd step down so they could have a champion in Congress who didn't think it wise to cash in one free grope.

AReasonableMan said...

Matthew Sablan said...
one free grope


Based on what we currently know he did not 'grope' her, unless grope has acquired a new meaning since I left high school.

Matthew Sablan said...

If you ignore literal photographic evidence and him apologizing... Then yes. We have no evidence at all.

AllenS said...

Ok, ARM, let's say that it's a pretend grope. Does that make it ok? Do you think that it lessens the humiliation to the sleeping woman?

Matthew Sablan said...

I'd like some college frat to try the ARM defense. Yeah she was sleeping, but all my bros were watching and taking pictures of me grabbing her and sorry about the grabbing miss but I didn't grab her. Why would I grab a hot girl in front of my bros?

AReasonableMan said...

The photographic evidence shows that she wasn't 'groped' so I will ignore it.

Matthew Sablan said...

See. People keep saying it shows that. And yet, there it is, showing that. This isn't like the blue or gold dress. His hands are on her.

AReasonableMan said...

AllenS said...
Do you think that it lessens the humiliation to the sleeping woman?


It seems to me that Franken is the one being humiliated here. For the record, I hope this kills his presidential aspirations. Not a fan. I am voting for a women next election. It's time.

Matthew Sablan said...

The gaslighting going on over this photo is impressive. Franken can't be this important a hill to die on.

AReasonableMan said...

Matthew Sablan said...
See. People keep saying it shows that. And yet, there it is, showing that. This isn't like the blue or gold dress. His hands are on her.


You are getting hysterical. Maybe take an aspirin and have a nice lie down.

Matthew Sablan said...

I think it is funny my gaslighting comment got in before ARM's trolling.

Original Mike said...

"It seems to me that Franken is the one being humiliated here."

I think that honor belongs to you.

Browndog said...

It's a still photo. No one knows what happened before or after that one moment in time occured.

Liberals are treating this like an official review of a catch caught in bounds in the NFL. In bounds, out of bounds. Is there a blade of grass between his foot and the sideline?

Inconclusive--Do not seat Moore, Impeach Trump, and give Franken a Nobel Peace Prize.

AReasonableMan said...

Browndog said...
It's a still photo. No one knows what happened before or after that one moment in time occured.


No, there were multiple witnesses - self-evidently the photographer for one.

bgates said...

You are getting hysterical.

Could you point to where Matthew Sablan said, "I am getting hysterical.'

By your standards, either you lied when you said, "You are getting hysterical" or Sablan said, "I am getting hysterical'.

Only two possibilities here.

AReasonableMan said...

Original Mike said...
I think that honor belongs to you.


For me, this piece of work didn't clearly distinguish itself from the typical mindless insults that form that basis for much of the 'banter' on this site. It lacks both depth and originality. Maybe it worked better back in grade school.

tcrosse said...

I am voting for a women next election. It's time

Better to be more specific.

Josephbleau said...

bgates said...
I don't know if Franken's behavior violated Senate norms, but it would be enough to get him thrown out of any junior college in America.

This comment crystallizes Franken's behavior. The big cats are immune from their lordly decrees, including title IX.

AReasonableMan said...

bgates said...
Could you point to where Matthew Sablan said, "I am getting hysterical.'


So, in your world, when a crazy person is melting down on the web with one hysterical post after another, they have to say "I am getting hysterical" before it is reasonable to conclude that they are in fact getting hysterical. Not other evidence will suffice? Is this correct?

AReasonableMan said...

tcrosse said...
Better to be more specific.


Not a transgender women. I am not that woke.

Drago said...

ARM: "...when a crazy person is melting down on the web with one hysterical post after another..."

I call that 'pulling an ARM'. Have you forgotten your little incident a few years back?

Browndog said...

No, there were multiple witnesses - self-evidently the photographer for one.

_________

Obvious meaning, you don't know, nor do I, you obtuse twit.

Drago said...

AllenS: "We never had to worry about Obama doing this stuff."

Well, not with chicks anyway.

Bob Boyd said...

"If Al Franken resigns, everyone will have to resign — everyone who's done at least as bad."

It might become a good opportunity to push for term limits.

bgates said...

So, in your world

I'm just applying the standard you find convenient at the moment to defend the progressive groper of the moment against you. Like Sablan, I'm perfectly comfortable making judgments about the behavior of others whether they have used what he called "magic words" (lol) or not. For example, you're getting hysterical.

Matthew Sablan said...

"There were multiple witnesses to the alleged gang rape, so clearly, it didn't happen." -- A defense no sane person would buy ever.

AReasonableMan said...

Drago said...
Have you forgotten your little incident a few years back?


When I kicked your ass all over the internet? That time? Or the other time when I kicked your ass all over the internet? Or the other time when I ...

But never mind me, I hear a Senator 'groped' someone so let's focus on that (obsessively) and ignore the fact that the House just blew a 1.5 trillion dollar hole in the US budget.

bgates said...

That attempt to change the subject kicked ass, AHystericalMan.

AReasonableMan said...

Browndog said...
you obtuse twit


Another disappointing effort, lacking luster and wit. It is not even all that late. I am going to give you a do over on this one.

Night Owl said...

stutefish @3:04 pm said:

'That's one of the motivators for the Trump vote, I think. After decades of tacit acceptance of any kind of sexual impropriety on the left, combined with aggressive preaching against any kind of sexual impropriety to the rest of the country, I think a lot of people finally got to the point of "you know what? Fuck it." If President Clinton can be a sexual predator, then why even bother pretending? Here, have Trump." '

Indeed. Some of the rage of the left must come from the knowledge they set the precedent that allowed Trump to survive the "grab them by the pussy" comment. If the left hadn't made excuses for Clinton for decades, there was no way Trump would've been able to survive that Oct. surprise.

And now the witch hunt that they are hoping will ensnare Trump will probably burn more Dems than GOPs, because Dems felt safer misbehaving knowing that the media covers up the sins of Dems, while Republicans have had no such safety net.

And if some incontrovertible proof of Trump indiscretions towards women does arise that is serious enough to get him to step down, the left ends up with a true conservative as President, Pence, a man who avoids being alone with women other then his family.

As they say, karma is a bitch.

AReasonableMan said...

bgates said...
AHystericalMan.


I am just as disappointed in you as I am sure our hostess will be when she reads this sad little effort.

Simply repeating things you have recently heard is not meeting the standards of the high paced intellectual salon that Althouse hopes to provide for her readers.

Drago said...

ARM: "When I kicked your ass all over the internet? That time? Or the other time when I..". Lol

My my. No ARM. That time you were so embarrassed over your, possibly chemically induced, "performance" that you went on a posting deletion frenzy.

I don't blame you. That was one of the most insane things witnessed on these boards in years.

But let me guess, the Russians made you do it.

Drago said...

Fake Russian Dossier Guy: "Simply repeating things you have recently heard is not meeting the standards of the high paced intellectual salon that Althouse hopes to provide for her readers."

Please, tell us more.

Drago said...

Longtime Clinton Defender: "..ignore the fact that the House just blew a 1.5 trillion dollar hole in the US budget."

Do you mean to say the republicans failed to "come to gropes" with the budget deficit?

Perhaps we should leave it to Sen Gropey McGroperson (D-MN) to lead the way.

glenn said...

Al Franken had Presidential aspirations? Spare me.

Or

God I’m glad I’m 78.

bgates said...

Simply repeating things you have recently heard

unless they're repeated in the form of a link (with no further comment) to something off-topic

is not blah blah

You are a hysterical ass-kicker, dude.

Browndog said...

Another disappointing effort, lacking luster and wit. It is not even all that late. I am going to give you a do over on this one

Noble offer.

I'll opt out of playing in your sand box. Clean it up. It stinks.

Drago said...

I have just realized that all these years ARM has been kicking himself in the arse and thinking it was someone else.

Btw, ARM made a great show over time demonstrating precisely how much credence he gave to Clintons credible accusers.

It's kind of hard to blame him for wanting to shift to a budget discussion.

Courage ARM. Courage. Stiff upper lip and all that. Builds character and instills grit to come to terms with you and your teams astonishing failures over the years.

AReasonableMan said...

And now my disappointment is complete. Drago, an unreliable commenter but not completely lacking in wit, has also failed to step up. Simply making things up from whole cloth is not not good enough Drago. There must be some germ of truth at the base of your fantastical imaginings before you let go of your tenuous handhold on reality.

Browndog said...

Night Owl said...

Make no mistake--The left would remove Trump from power just to prove they can.

This is all about who has power. The left asserts they do; elections, laws are only valid if they deem them so.

Drago said...

Sorry ARM old chap. There were far too many witnesses to your..."episode".

You've decided to go 99% Inga with that one.

You haven't changed your profile name yet so I can't claim 100% Inga status for you.

That would just be unfair.

What exactly is it that makes the lefties believe they can pull off the Jedi mind trick stuff all the time? There are probably any number or reasons.

FullMoon said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Browndog said...

Times like these I miss Garage Mahal.

Drago said...

It really doesn't take much to make ARM inadvertantly jettison the faux "above it all sophisticate" act.

Always entertaining.

AReasonableMan said...

Drago said...
There were far too many witnesses


That multitude of voices you hear inside your head do not count as witnesses, unless you are making an insanity defense. Admittedly this might be the best option at this point.

AReasonableMan said...

I am hoping that those Tea Party patriots will step up to block this budget. Only they have the credibility and integrity needed to stop this budget insanity.

chickelit said...

AReasonableMan asserted: I am voting for a women next election. It's time.

He's already with her. And don't think she won't run. Hillary's Revenge is just kicking in.

Matthew Sablan said...

"He's already with her. And don't think she won't run. Hillary's Revenge is just kicking in."

-- If Clinton runs, she won't win the primary. She almost lost to Sanders -- who wasn't even a Democrat! -- if the DNC didn't cheat for her. She'll have no chance against a charismatic candidate, and certainly no chance against a charismatic female Democrat who doesn't have decades of baggage. Brazille has tried to kneecap her because, frankly, I believe Democrats are worried about a level of infighting similar to what we saw with Republicans last cycle, and she's worried that Clinton could survive and win that legitimately, if all the good candidates bloody each other instead of focusing fire.

Trump, I'm sure, would love a rematch, but I don't think he'll get it.

AReasonableMan said...

Hillary is not running. The Dems have already started kicking the Clintons to the curb. It is going to be a packed field, however, there is blood in the water.

traditionalguy said...

One thing Franken had in common with Moore is that when they did their sexual hits both were Democrat Jackasses.

narciso said...

Right instead you doc brown who wrote of his rape fantasies, kamala who sleet her way to the muddle, don't even get me started in the salon of scrantin.

Drago said...

ARM: "The Dems have already started ..."

Lol

Hillary will do whatever she wants and the Dems will do what they are told.

As always.

Lem said...

It's a tit for tat... wait.

tcrosse said...

Hillary is not running. The Dems have already started kicking the Clintons to the curb.

The Clintonistas have not yet begun to fight back. You may not be through with them, but they're not through with you. It all depends on whether the big money boys who bought Hillary are ready to write off their investment.

The Toothless Revolutionary said...

Ok. So a guy known for making his bread and butter goofing on skits apparently blurred the lines more than he intended one time so that's just completely equivalent to a guy who in his thirties preyed on at least four teenage girls. I see. Nice little tour in the conservative land of make-believe and false equivalences.

Mr. Majestyk said...

What reeks with the Moore allegations is the timing. Why didn't they come to light during the primary when voters had the chance to nominate someone else? Because whoever dug them up doesn't give a rat's ass about any of this. It's all politics. (Same thing with the publication of Trump's pussy-grabbing comment.). If I lived in Alabama, I'd vote for Moore as a way of saying "screw you" to whoever engineered this attack.

The Toothless Revolutionary said...

"'...If President Clinton can be a sexual predator, then why even bother pretending? Here, have Trump." '

Indeed. Some of the rage of the left must come from the knowledge they set the precedent that allowed Trump to survive the "grab them by the pussy" comment. If the left hadn't made excuses for Clinton for decades, there was no way Trump would've been able to survive that Oct. surprise.


Lol! Listen to how pathetic the right is! "Our rapist is better than your rapist!"

And it's not even that. It's "Our ADMITTED groper is better than your womanizing alleged sex offender!"

The right doesn't know the difference between:

1. Allegations and admissions
2. Fantasy and reality
3. Truth and lies

wwww said...

The Clintonistas have not yet begun to fight back. You may not be through with them, but they're not through with you. It all depends on whether the big money boys who bought Hillary are ready to write off their investment.



y'all are delusional. The Clintons are history.

I think it makes people uncomfortable that both parties are restructuring. The Clintons are a comfortable enemy. But both parties are changing to the point that I cannot even guess who will be the front runners for Ds in 2020 and for Rs in 2024. I think there's a chance of a 3rd party candidate for 2020.

Roy Lofquist said...

Blogger AReasonableMan said...
New Poll Is Really Bad News For Roy Moore

Here's the techie version:

for i = 1 to 100
New Poll Is Really Bad News For Donald Trump
Next i

tcrosse said...

y'all are delusional. The Clintons are history.

They haven't got the memo.

chickelit said...

The Toothless Revolutionary said...Ok. So a guy known for making his bread and butter goofing on skits apparently blurred the lines more than he intended one time so that's just completely equivalent to a guy who in his thirties preyed on at least four teenage girls. I see. Nice little tour in the conservative land of make-believe and false equivalences.

No, they're equivalent because this is about the US Senate. Dulce et decorum & all that. Your side first.

The Toothless Revolutionary said...

I am voting for a women next election. It's time.

As someone calling in from a workplace where our soon-to-be diversity hire will decimate the place, I'm happy to put it out there: Women are often hypersensitive morons. They're conservative, insecure and and not usually very creative. But since in America their entitlement is through-the-roof we've convinced ourselves that they're not only an equal gender (in rights), but a superior one.

For the diversity and delusion dilemma alone, I'm glad a certain woman did not beat a certain man in 2016. A certain other woman and a certain other man? Maybe. But it was sweet irony to find the one man who was more entitled and more mendacious to beat the most entitled and mendacious female (fake) politician we've known in decades. Hillary Clinton is phonier than a Spam sandwich.

chickelit said...

It's true: The DNC hasn't had its internal revolution like the GOP has especially wrt funding. I expect it to be far, far, bloodier and nastier, given what's at stake.

The Toothless Revolutionary said...

Make that a Spam sandwich on white Wonder bread.

That's Hillary. That's our phony!

The left had better get over this bullshit soon. Can you imagine the next several decades dominated by playground "what's in my pants vs. your pants!" taunts? How fucked-up and ridiculous. Not to mention that women are much more insecure about what's in their pants than even the least endowed male.

I hate this country.

chickelit said...

Hillary's Revenge doesn't mean leveling the playing field for women; it means decimating the playing field: every 10th men must go down before this is over.

The Toothless Revolutionary said...

Hillary thought she could win by being the most mendacious and entitled presidential candidate to run.

But the voters found a candidate who was even more mendacious and entitled. He beat her out on those scores. He was superior to her in his capacity for mendacity and entitlement.

Women are as good as or better than men. Except when you extol their sociopathic traits, apparently. Hillary was the best female sociopath politician the Democrats could find. So the Republicans found one who was an even bigger sociopath. He beat her on sociopath traits alone! (Which were her greatest claim to fame).

Hillary, how do you feel about the way you treated Donna Brazile?

What a bitch. Just like life!

The Toothless Revolutionary said...

Hillary couldn't believe that she found a competitor who could more easily lie, cheat and steal his way to the White House than she could. She was dumbfounded.

All along, she thought she was the best liar, cheater and thief. What a letdown it must have been to realize she wasn't!

The Godfather said...

To get back to the topic. If I were an Alabama voter, I would have voted for Strange in the primary, and I probably would have stayed home for the general. Before all this happened. Now, I would be so p-o-ed by the liberal media that not only would I vote for Moore in the general, I'd drive my friends and neighbors to the polls to do the same. I would then support action to ease Moore out for the next election.

If I were a Minnesota voter, I would register as a Democrat to vote in the 2020 Senatorial primary for "anyone other than Franken". I would not only drive my friends and neighbors to the polls, I would personally crawl across broken glass for each of them to cast a vote against Franken. And if Franken should be nominated by the Democrats, I would do the same to oppose him in the general, broken glass and all. I'd also support efforts to ensure that the votes were counted honestly, for a change.

MikeR said...

Whoa. "They all should resign, every man in every industry. Maybe that's a good thing because then women can take those positions and then we'll finally get equal pay."
"We could ask all of the men in Congress to resign, is that what you're asking me?" she said. "You know that mostly all men do this kind of thing to women."
President of NOW.
Well, that's one way to defend Franken.

Night Owl said...

'Lol! Listen to how pathetic the right is! "Our rapist is better than your rapist!"

And it's not even that. It's "Our ADMITTED groper is better than your womanizing alleged sex offender!" '

Those opinions are not expressed in either my comment or the one I responded too. You may be projecting. Or perhaps just talking out of your ass. Hard to know for sure, but I'm guessing it's the latter.

Why do you waste your time this way? (BTW, it's a rhetorical question... I don't really care.)

MikeR said...

"who in his thirties preyed on at least four teenage girls." Huh? Underage teenage girls? I heard claims about one.
Not underage? Is there some law against that? At all.

bgates said...

The Dems have already started kicking the Clintons to the curb. It is going to be a packed field, however, there is blood in the water.

Having the curb right next to the field doesn't sound safe, especially if the field is packed (and...wet? Or is that the curb?) There would probably be some blood in a situation like that even without all the kicking.

You have a gift for metaphor.

The Toothless Revolutionary said...

Why do you waste your time this way? (BTW, it's a rhetorical question... I don't really care.)

Nor do you care about real questions. That could lead to something called "knowledge," which is something you oppose.

M Jordan said...

Franken staying is Moore’s dream. Franken leaving is Moore’s exit. I’m sure Dem leaders are telling Al that.

But will he listen?

Drago said...

"Hillary couldn't believe that she found a competitor who could more easily lie, cheat and steal his way to the White House than she could. She was dumbfounded."

What did Trump steal and how did Trump cheat?

All politicians lie.

The Toothless Revolutionary said...

All politicians lie.

Not all of them have supporters who are as interested in rationalizing why they should believe them as you are.

William Chadwick said...

You have to realize that what we call "liberalism" is a secular religion, a contemporary American sect of the age-old Cult of the State. When Bill Clinton gets a pass--and Hillary Clinton gets a pass for enabling him--it's essentially "Antinomianism."
That is, the Faithful or the Elect get a pass that the non-Faithful don't.

William Chadwick said...

The Toothless State-fellator writes that "the Right" (by which he apparently means "people who are more pro-freedom than my gang") conflates Fantasy and Reality. Like his gang does when promoting their version of economics?

Gospace said...

I told all my kids never let anyone take a picture that you wouldn't want your grandmother to see. Apparently, Franken is too stupid to understand that simple rule.

Lydia said...

So far, the most serious allegation looks like revenge for his ruling against her in her divorce case

Except it looks as that ruling didn't happen -- "Court documents show key claim made by Roy Moore’s attorney was a lie":

The details of the case were first exposed by a pseudonymous Twitter account, which dug up the documents from that divorce action. ThinkProgress independently verified the full, unredacted case file, which shows there was no occasion for Moore and Nelson to cross paths. The case was dismissed shortly after it was filed as Nelson and her husband attempted to reconcile.

The documents do show that Nelson, then Beverly Harris, filed a divorce action against her then-husband in May of 1999. All of the initial documents, however, were signed by a different district judge, W. D. Russell. On May 25, 1999, Judge Russell scheduled the first hearing for the case for June 16.

But that hearing never took place. In June, before the scheduled hearing was set to take place, she filed for a motion to “continue” (delay) the hearing because she and her husband “are going to counseling and are attempting to reconcile.”

A month later, she filed a motion to dismiss the case. That appears to be the only document Moore signed, and given there was no hearing, there is no reason the divorce action would have required her to enter the courthouse or have contact with Moore.

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