Said Harry Dreyfuss, the son of Richard Dreyfuss, about something that happened in 2008, quoted in The Daily Mail.
ADDED: What was this play in which Harry was cast as his father's lover? It was "Complicit," by Joe Sutton, and directed by Kevin Spacey at the Old Vic in London. Here's the Guardian's 2-star review (from 2009):
[The] hero, Ben Kritzer, is a Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist who, in the wake of 9/11, had written a powerful opinion piece advocating the use of torture in "the war on terror". Given hard evidence of America's brutal military tactics and disregard for international law, he has since undergone a change of heart and, thanks to a state department source, has published incriminating documents.There's no mention of Harry Dreyfuss and what his character had to do with anything.
The key question is whether he will protect his source and risk prison, or, as his wife and lawyer fervently hope, save his own skin.... What we get is a three-way tussle over tactics between Ben, his wife, and his lawyer, interspersed with TV footage of an Andrew Marr interview. It is rather like being kept waiting outside the Colosseum while the Christians are being thrown to the lions...
Spacey's production is oddly cast. Richard Dreyfuss as Ben never seems on top of the material, and is given to prowling around the Vic's new in-the-round stage barking at people rather than conversing with them. He also seems five times as old as Elizabeth McGovern, who is sadly wasted as his wife.
I'd like to write a play about an sexually predatory director who inserts roles for teenagers in plays that have nothing to do with teenagers. He lures famous old actors to take starring roles in productions they cannot really handle, and the old actor goes on — abysmally — because the offer included a role for his precious teenage son, who was eager to begin an acting career.
AND: I glossed over this set up for the quote I featured:
Harry writes that the three of them were in Spacey's London apartment, and that he and Spacey, now 58, sat together on a couch. Richard, now 70, was intensely rehearsing his lines and did not notice when, per the allegation, Spacey put his hand on Harry's thigh. Harry was helping his father rehearse by portraying his character's wife.So teenage Harry was in Kevin Spacey's apartment, sitting on the couch with him and his father, and the way he got into this odd position — the position that gave Spacey a chance to grope him (with his father right there on the couch) — was that Harry was supposed to be reading the lines of the female character in the play. What a creepy set-up!
In his account, Harry describes how he got up to move to the other side of the couch, only for Spacey to follow him. He writes that he again moved to the other side of the couch and put his hands on his thighs. At which point, he alleges Spacey returned and slid his hand through the crevice between Harry's arm and leg. 'Over the course of about 20 seconds, centimeter by centimeter, Kevin crawled his hand from my thigh over toward my crotch,' Harry writes. 'Looking into his eyes, I gave the most meager shake of my head that I could manage.'How could Richard Dreyfuss not have seen this? How could Harry have allowed Spacey to crawl his hand slowly and ultimately come to rest on his crotch and remain there? The answer seems to be: career. The abject submission is chilling. Harry was 18 and capable of consenting to sexual contact. (This happened in London, where the age of consent is and was 16.) How was Spacey to divine that Harry wasn't consenting?
He describes how he did not want to alert his father because Spacey was his father's boss at the time. He also writes that he was worried about harming his own career. Eventually, Spacey removed the hand, it is alleged. Harry says is not sure how long the hand remained on his crotch.
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69 comments:
Anybody think anymore that people like this, that seem attractive on the surface, and that seem like great people, that everybody loves but their bitter victims , don't exist?
2008 is getting closer in time to the present. Perhaps the Ghost Of Christmas Future will visit Spacey and warn him of what will be if he doesn’t change.
Kevin Spacey would do this kind of stuff, Bill Cosby would, of course Harvey Weinstein would do this kind of stuff, but never, never, never would our lovable scamp Bill Clinton, no matter what those trailer trash nuts and sluts say!
I'm just thankful that the Democratic leadership had no idea about any of this - that might make Michelle not be proud of our country again!
Bill and Kevin are close friends, according to this 2015 article:
Mr. Spacey, a Democratic donor, first met Mr. Clinton in the White House during his first term. In two industries — politics and entertainment — known for fleeting friendships of convenience, the men seemed to genuinely bond. They stayed in touch and grew closer in Mr. Clinton’s post-presidency, talking a couple times a month and collaborating often on philanthropic work. It’s a relationship that is well known to those close to Mr. Clinton and that has become evident since I began covering him and his wife, Hillary Rodham Clinton.
Sydney said...
Bill and Kevin are close friends...
Talking a couple times a month does not meet my definition of a close friend.
I still keep in touch with men that I served with in the Army back in the 1960s. We might not see each or talk to each other for years, but they are still my close friends.
it [Netflix] was dropping a biopic of writer Gore Vidal that he had been set to star in
Not that I'd watch it, but he is the perfect actor for it.
It seems simpler to let people work it out on their own.
Spacey wrote, “As those closest to me know, in my life I have had relationships with both men and women [and boys, whether they wanted the relationship or not].”
No wonder he was so good in House of Cards, with its various intimate threads. He wasn’t acting.
They’re gonna put me in the movies
They’re gonna make a big star out of me
We’ll make a film about a man that’s sad and lonely
And all I gotta do is act naturally
"...My dad and I were pretending to be lovers in a play..."
Huh?
Like lovers of each other?
THAT'S Father-Son bonding.
I am Laslo.
"...My dad and I were pretending to be lovers in a play..."
What the hell play was that?
How much Spacey-esque evil is there throughout show business that we get plays like that?
The play was "Complicit." I'm seeing this from an Old Vic webpage:
"There’s a hard road, there’s an easy road – which would you take? Pulitzer Prize winning journalist Ben Kritzer (Richard Dreyfuss) finds himself in front of a Grand Jury faced with his own choice. Artistic Director Kevin Spacey returns to the theatre’s stage to direct the world premiere of Joe Sutton’s new play, a thrilling look at our current political climate. As liberties are stripped away can you ever know what is being perpetrated in your name?"
"never, never would our lovable scamp Bill Clinton" He rode the Lolita Express for the conversation.
The linked article said the son was standing in for the wife character so his dad could practice his lines.
From NY Daily News:
"The younger Dreyfuss said he was just 18 when he accompanied his father to Spacey’s London apartment in 2008 to rehearse lines for the play “Complicit.”
Review of the play with Dreyfuss here.
Not seeing the 'lovers' thing, or even his son being in it.
This article thas the 'lovers' quote, too, but no explanation.
I read in another article that Harry and Richard were reading the parts of a wife and husband. Nothing freaky.
Damn. I guess I'm going to have to write the play where Dreyfuss and son are lovers.
And their romance is under terrible strain.
Because they are father and son.
And that damned shark.
I am Laslo.
The quote is confusing. I didn't see that Ben was in the play. He was with his father, Richard, and Spacey in a room where Richard was practicing his own lines with Ben reading opposite Richard taking on the lines of the Richard's wife (his "lover" in the play).
It was Harry, not Ben. This has become confused enough! Lol
Ben has said his favourite movie is Jaws. Because he didn’t get a scholarship and his dad had to pay for college. Ha ha.
Um, basic plot?
I'm a difficult but brilliant junior officer... who in about 20 minutes is gonna save the world from nuclear disaster.
Mm-hmm. Okay. Well done, you. "Message from Command. Would you like them to send in the H.K.s?"
No. Turn over four T.R.S.s and tell them we need radar feedback... before the K.F.T.s return at 1900. Then inform the Pentagon we'll need Black Star cover from 1000 through 1215. And if you say one word about how many mistakes I made in that speech, I'll pelt you with olives.
Very well, Captain. I'll pass that on straightaway.
Thank you. - How many mistakes did I make?
- Eleven.
- Damn it. And Wainwright--
- Cartwright.
Cartwright, Wainwright, whatever your name is, I promised little Jimmy I'd be home for his birthday, so could you get a message to him that I may be late.
Certainly. And, uh, little Johnny?
- My son's name is Johnny?
- Yep.
- Then get a message to him too.
- I'll do what I can, Captain, but I can't promise anything. And Cartwright goes.
- What do you think?
- Gripping. it's not Jane Austen. it's not Henry James, but it's... gripping.
- Think I should do Henry James instead?
- You would be brilliant. But this writer-- writers-- they're pretty damn good too.
- Notting Hill (1999)
Back in the early 2000s, I saw the movie Jeepers Creepers 2 in theaters with some college friends. The plot involved a high school basketball team stranded on a bus in the middle of nowhere. Throughout the film, I explicitly remember lots of gratuitous shots of the male players sunbathing on the bus' roof and urinating together while standing shoulder to shoulder, while one of the characters was a laughably over-the-top homophobe. I didn't think much of it (other than it being a bad movie) until some time later when I discovered that Victor Silva was the director. He had been convicted in the late 1980s after molesting a 12-year-old boy starring in a film he had directed. He was sentenced to three years, served 18 months, and after a 5-year hiatus was back in the director's chair with Powder, which was a source of minor controversy at the time.
The way Harry Dreyfus phrased that makes me think he bears anger against his father for putting himself in that situation. Normally you'd think he would have just said that he was helping his father rehearse his lines but he made it sound sordid.
MORAL SEX PANIC!
This story is completely trivial. Why is it international news?
In Hollywood, how do you separate the men from the boys? With a crowbar.
Notting Hill was great, just watched it a week ago. I liked it even though I can hardly stand that horse faced actress. What was the speech she gave about the trials of being an actress at the birthday party?
Salva's Jeepers Creepers 3.
"While no scenes in the movie depict molestation, IGN reports that there is a joke included in Jeepers Creepers 3 when two adult characters are talking about the sexual abuse of a 13-year old girl at the hands of her father. The exchange between the two characters expresses sympathy for the child's abuser and it is disgusting. One character says...
"Can you blame the step-dad, though? I mean, look at her. The heart wants what it wants, am I right?"
I am Laslo.
He was there, put up with it (sort of), and said nothing for years because he wanted to be an actor, too.
Instead of "between Ben, his wife, and his lawyer,", it should be "AMONG Ben, his wife, and his lawyer". It seems like a minor point, but it is (IMO) a subtle surrogate sign of our civilization's intellectual decline, as is confusing "composed" with "comprised" and ignoring that "data are" not "data is". It's not when ordinary people do this that bothers me, but when the NYT or WSJ does.
Julia Roberts. I like her, but there was no excuse for Eat, Pray, Love.
In Notting Hill she stood for woman in general. Then the plot makes sense, albeit written to fall into the romcom formula.
The part women like is the apology; the part men like is getting the girl.
The love part is finding each other amusing early, then content later.
In his defense, Spacey was doing an important play moralizing about big issues. A play! If it wasn't for people like Spacey doing important plays and stuff, where would we be? How could we hope to understand the devastating effects of conflict on our writers and intellectuals?
To what degree has the specter of the politically correct charge of "homophobia" kept people silent in cases like this?
I'd like to write a romantic comedy about two Morse Code enthusiasts who fall in love as they tap to each other.
She has a gender-fuzzy name, so he is not sure if it is a guy or a girl at first.
Hijinks ensue.
Also, some tapping montages.
I am Laslo.
then content later.
Often shown via little content.
The father should be insulted that Spacey wasn't paying attention to his reading.
From his roles, Dreyfus seems like the type who wouldn't notice--and he was 60, which is nearly as old as the hills.
Also, some tapping montages.
With a Siegfeld finale in the background to confuse the plot.
Two Hollywood producers are having drinks in a bar.
One says to the other, "Let's go screw some thirteen year old boys."
the other producer says "Outa what?"
You brutally misread the article Althouse. The son was just helping his dad rehearse. Not your best work.
It's one thing to grope the son of an associate, but to do it while the father is actually in the room! There are levels of arrogance and shitty behavior here that send the most no reeling..,.....The people who would protect the world against the excesses of Gitmo practice such abuses on the children of their own friends. I don't think it has yet sunk in in Hollywood had bad these scandals make them look.
The casting decision was sick and disgusting, as well as the predatory behavior.
Okay, I just read the facts more carefully, and it seems to me that Harry was of age, understood what Spacey was doing (which was moving very slowly en route to the crotch), and that Spacey was justified to infer consent.
I think "grope" is the wrong word for what Spacey did. Harry Dreyfuss's story is very different from the story of the 14-year-old we heard the other day.
Harry wasn't in the play. There are only 3 characters in it - the protagonist, his wife, and his attorney.
How was Spacey to divine that Harry wasn't consenting?
Moving away from him twice?
Yes, Spacey didn't lie on top of him in front of his father.
No one expects the Spacey Imposition.
now he had all of me in his hand
I gave the most meager shake of my head that I could manage.
Kevin had no reaction and kept his hand there
There might be a sort of "Hollywood consent" which means "I move or talk to indicate I don't like you, I don't want this"; Hollywood power figure continues grab, rape, dry hump, whatever; aspiring Hollywood actor seeking glamorous life moves or talks in such a way as to signal "If you persist, I want my glamorous career so much I'll put with whatever. This is one of your perks, as Trump said. I won't slap you hard; The police won't be in this. Just help me be a star and this won't matter to me. Much. I hope. Just not the midnight train to Georgia. Not back to Blue Bayou.
@Ann Althouse grabbing someones genitals is not ok and not how one makes a pass at another person period. Silence does not infer consent, that is in fact the opposite of how consent works, which must be given.
"...and that Spacey was justified to infer consent."
Things can look different after a few days in Vegas.
I blame Britney.
Harry gave several signals that he was not consenting, from moving twice to mouthing "no", plus the total absence of any positive signs to keep going. Three strikes, you're out. Not a close call.
Harry, as an 18 year old straight virgin who didn't want to embarrass his dad's gay pervert arrogant POS boss, made a snap judgment call on how to handle a REALLY uncomfortable situation.
Somehow this means Spacey was justified in assuming consent?! Wow. No. Not even close.
It’s a lawyer’s argument. Suitable for a courtroom, but fairly revolting in the real world.
Agree with the pushback about consent. Sure, he could have been more forceful and loudly said "Stop touching my crotch" or something,
But in such a bizarre situation- sitting in the room with his father- lack of consent can be inferred from the get go anyway. Without any positive sign that he wanted another man to feel him up in front of his father, and with negative signals like getting up and moving away and mouthing "no", I think it's insane to say that consent was implied.
From One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest:
A self-justifying McMurphy explains to the psychiatrist: "She was fifteen years old, going on thirty-five, Doc, and she told me she was eighteen, she was very willing, I practically had to take to sewing my pants shut. Between you and me, uh, she might have been fifteen, but when you get that little red beaver right up there in front of you, I don't think it's crazy at all and I don't think you do either. No man alive could resist that, and that's why I got into jail to begin with. And now they're telling me I'm crazy over here because I don't sit there like a goddamn vegetable. Don't make a bit of sense to me. If that's what being crazy is, then I'm senseless, out of it, gone-down-the-road, wacko. But no more, no less, that's it. "
I just sort of assume that most men don't want me to grab their genitals and most women don't want to watch me masturbate. I think these are the sort of things that you need positive vocal affirmation before proceeding. Silence is not consent.
“@Ann Althouse grabbing someones genitals is not ok and not how one makes a pass at another person period. Silence does not infer consent, that is in fact the opposite of how consent works, which must be given. ”
The description is not of grabbing genitals but of beginning with the hand far from the genitals and very slowly creeping toward them, giving the person many opportunities to push your hand away or say cut it out. Many people attempt seduction like that. I don’t think it’s wrong outside of the workplace. This was a workplace, though, a Spacey was in a position of power toawrd Harry’s father. It’s ambiguous, at least.
It’s Harry’s description.
If Harry were evincing being upset, how could his father not see?
Something doesn’t add up. The way the facts are written by Harry, I am hypothesizing that Richard was facilitating.
Yeah, that’s crazy. But here’s another Kevin Spacey story. Another thigh, and a thirteen year old this time.
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/kevin-spacey-touching-rapp_us_59fc80fee4b0b0c7fa39b4b8
[The] hero, Ben Kritzer, is a Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist who, in the wake of 9/11, had written a powerful opinion piece advocating the use of torture in "the war on terror". Given hard evidence of America's brutal military tactics and disregard for international law, he has since undergone a change of heart...
That's such a self-congratulatory story idea. I'm sick of stories that have the hero moving from a despised point of view -- a point of view that the author has no experience with, and so by necessity must be a straw man -- to the view of the elite, as if to show all the unsophisticated ignorami how to become more human. Frankly, I'd be more inclined to see something that moves in the opposite direction: an elitist moralizer who realizes that those he considers his intellectual and cultural inferiors are right and he's wrong.
"...I am hypothesizing that Richard was facilitating."
J'accuse...!
Harry admitted to being starstruck (and shy), which Spacey probably took as encouragement. Thanks to Trump, we know what that means, in this case substitute junk for pussy.
If he'd been gay, it would have been even more embarrassing and freakish--getting involuntarily turned on and hard in the presence of his father, even one who wasn't paying attention.
When the blood goes South, it leaves the North.
Without being there it's hard to say how or why Richard Dreyfus failed to notice, bit I guess I picture him pacing around the room going through his lines intensely in his role and not actually looking at his son. Now that I think about it, since the son was doing the lines of his wife it may have been awkward for him to make eye contact so he might even have been intentionally avoiding it. Perhaps that was even part of Spacey's intent.
Harry didn't object because Spacey was his father's "boss"? His father was Richard Dreyfuss, fer chrissakes! What could Kevin Spacey really do to hurt Richard Dreyfuss?
His dad is a sneering beta male. How awesome that some scumbag could sexually assault him and he didn’t donahot. For a part.
'Salva's Jeepers Creepers 3.
"While no scenes in the movie depict molestation, IGN reports that there is a joke included in Jeepers Creepers 3 when two adult characters are talking about the sexual abuse of a 13-year old girl at the hands of her father. The exchange between the two characters expresses sympathy for the child's abuser and it is disgusting. One character says...
"Can you blame the step-dad, though? I mean, look at her. The heart wants what it wants, am I right?"
I am Laslo.'
What was the joke?
Hey! Calling Dreyfus a sneering beta male is an insult to all the sneering beta males trying to make their way in this veil of tears...
"I'd like to write a romantic comedy about two Morse Code enthusiasts who fall in love as they tap to each other."
I think some of that was going on in some WW2 movie. It may have been Sink the Bismarck, or some Alan Ladd movie.
Too.much.information.
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