Last month, MPR was notified of the allegations which relate to Mr. Keillor's conduct while he was responsible for the production of A Prairie Home Companion (APHC). MPR President Jon McTaggart immediately informed the MPR Board Chair, and a special Board committee was appointed to provide oversight and ongoing counsel....ADDED: Keillor created a folksy character for himself, but if I ever believed it was anything like his real-life self, I quit believing that in 1993 when Spy Magazine pranked him (click to enlarge and read):
MPR will end its business relationships with Mr. Keillor's media companies effective immediately. By terminating the contracts, MPR and American Public Media (APM) will: end distribution and broadcast of The Writer's Almanac and rebroadcasts of The Best of A Prairie Home Companion hosted by Garrison Keillor; change the name of APM's weekly music and variety program hosted by Chris Thile; and, separate from the Pretty Good Goods online catalog and the PrairieHome.org website.
ALSO: From the NYT:
In his statement on Wednesday, Mr. Keillor said he was “deeply grateful” for the saga of Lake Wobegon and for all his years doing his radio programs and his tours, as well as the friendships of musicians and actors.We still have Ira Glass.
"I’m 75,” he said, “and don’t have any interest in arguing about this. I cannot in conscience bring danger to a great organization I’ve worked hard for since 1969,” he said. He also apologized to “all the poets whose work I won’t be reading on the radio and sorry for the people who will lose work on account of this.”...
“‘Prairie Home Companion’ came on the scene just as public radio was trying to figure out what its identity was,” Ira Glass, the host of “This American Life,” told The New York Times last year. “The fact that here was such a visibly weird, funny, idiosyncratic show opened up the space of other weird, idiosyncratic shows, like ‘Car Talk,’ and our show.”
Posts
165 comments:
There is a God.
We're finally past the tip and getting down into the full iceberg.
Wow. They're going to abandon their best trademark by far.
In order to unperson someone.
And after Garrison mounted such a spirited defense of James Damore!
So, to punish Keillor for an unspecified (and unproven?) transgression, they're going to punish all the people who work for his company, (companies?). That's the way to go, of course!
Couldn't happen to a nicer guy.
How great to have all these young staffers and interns around eh? ...and, Viagra!
Anyway, good riddance. I used to hold out hope for him because his writing showed at least a hint of nuance. But he went full retard during the Bush II era.
I don't think this witch hunt is going to end well, for anyone.
LOL! This is the first time I've laughed at Keillor!
Eggs, meet omelets.
"Unproven?"
Robert Cook - rape apologist.
(Yeah, that's what it's been like to be a conservative since, oh, 1953. Enjoy!)
good day to check in on iowahawk and his thoughts on the news
https://twitter.com/iowahawkblog
I started listening to GK in the 80s while an undergrad and liked him for years; my wife and I always listened to the annual joke shows and I liked that he was not totally PC. But he went bat-shit insane during the Bush administration.
First he screwed the people who worked for him, now they will. Because justice.
"So, to punish Keillor for an unspecified (and unproven?) transgression, they're going to punish all the people who work for his company, (companies?). That's the way to go, of course!"
The employees of Arthur Andersen could not be reached for comment.
I started listening to Kiellor back in the 70s when he was doing the morning drive-time show on KSJN. Years of fan adoration knocked the aw-shucks out of him, I guess. The word on the street in St Paul is that his on-air character was nothing like the real guy. A piece of work, as they say in Minnesota.
I have some sympathy for Garrison. Guys like Matt Lauer and Charley Rose probably got all the female attention they needed when younger. Even old and wrinkly, wIth minimal effort, they could probably have had liaisons with lots of attractive women outside of the chain of command. Their caddishnes was exceeded by their laziness.....It was only late in life that Garrison found himself in a position to take advantage of women. Heady stuff. YOLO. Life is hard and then you die in disgrace.
Robert Cook
Yes, just as anti bull fighting forces shut down the workers who do everything from making uniforms to selling tickets. Just as anti fox hunting forces shut down the village income from the hunts and the trainers and master of hounds must find other work. Just as anti shooting gangs in England want to end the livelihoods of village beaters and dog handlers. Arthur Anderson, Lehman, etc
SJWs never look downstream of their actions.
It couldn't have happened to a nappier-headed ho.
Who's next? Please don't let it be Ira Glass!
Just to repeat what I said on the last thread: I always figured all the folks in Lake Woebegon were low-key Republicans: Lots of small business owners, almost all church-goers, patriotic and by-and-large sensible (giant duck decoys aside)..
I was very surprised when in the GWB years, Keillor came out as a rabid Democrat.
Prairie Home Companion was good. I don't know of what's recent.
But it's all moral hysteria for the entertainment of women now.
Make the deals you want but stay clear of crimes. It all ought to be private.
Well, that's the news from The Liberal Media, where all the women are victims, all the children are in therapy, and all the men are above morally below average."
Rush is buying the moral turpitude line, which is a disappointment.
He's awful on morality and economics.
"Who's next?"
Phil Griffin is the Imus crew guess. They were right about Lauer.
Timing: Just yesterday Keillor wrote a piece in the Washington Post defending Al Franken.
Personally, I'm a sucker for radio theater. And sketch comedy, even bad sketch comedy. I liked the show, even those the show didn't like my kind.
Couldn't happen to a nicer guy.
Quoted for truth.
PBS/NPR are getting hit hard.
It was probably always a great hive of villainy of course.
Sesame Street's "Elmo" was a pedophile.
And then there was "The Frugal Gourmet" pedophile.
We may also find out about some former stars.
Woebegone now is "woe is me" and "I be gone."
I have to believe many of these recent high-profile dismissals were issues simmering on the HR "back burner" at all these networks (waiting to be broomed away, as they always have been) until recent publicity and events turned up the heat.
I guess he's not above average any more.
Always like when people who have smugly looked down on unsophisticated flyovers like me, learn that friends and money are limited. Don't assume popularity counts.
Reposted from a Matt Lauer thread:
Down goes Keillor! Down goes Keillor! Down goes Keillor!
Garrison Keillor on his fellow Americans who happen to be Republicans (2007):
"...hairy-backed swamp developers and corporate shills, faith-based economists, see-through fundamentalist bullies with Bibles, Christians of convenience, freelance racists, hobby cops, misanthropic frat boys, lizardskin cigar monkeys, jerktown romeos, ninja dittoheads, the shrieking midgets of AM radio, tax cheats, cheese merchants, cat stranglers, taxi dancers, grab-ass executives, gun fetishists, genteel pornographers, pill pushers, chronic nappers, nihilists in golf pants, backed-up Baptists, Crips and Bloods of the boardroom."
Buh-bye, Mr. Keillor
I hope he washed his hands before he made all those biscuits.
It's most satisfying that Hillary Clinton's sexist campaign meme against Trump not only failed, but is cutting a swathe of destruction through her party, donors and the entertainment media complex.
Okay, okay, I'm watching the bouncing ball.
Re: Robert Cook:
So, to punish Keillor for an unspecified (and unproven?) transgression, they're going to punish all the people who work for his company, (companies?). That's the way to go, of course!
That's more or less the way any punishment or discipline works. No man is an island, entire of himself, as the poet says. When you imprison a petty thief, his family go hungry. When you fine a public company, its shareholders -- pension funds and pensioners and all -- are the ones who actually "pay" the fine. These are the broken eggs without which omelettes cannot be made.
We liked "The Frugal Gourmet". Made his beer-and-cheese soup several times.
The revelations were quite shocking at the time.
To date, NONE of the men exposed as sexual creeps, or worse, has surprised me.
An allegation is a data point, the first witness. Not standing your ground is a data point, another witness. Admission of guilt would be conclusive, and your out.
So, this may be a good time to reconsider establishment of the Pro-Choice Church. Did female chauvinists collude with male chauvinists to progress their career? Did the resumption and normalization of abortion rites serve women? It certainly did not serve the child (the tomb of the nonviable baby is testimony to that), and, in most cases, the father. Or did it serve to progress social liberalism and licentious behaviors (e.g. friendship with "benefits" or "cast couch" relationships)?
Maybe we should review the morals and motives of feminist icons, not just their male chauvinist conspirators. It seems that it was not only babies that were sacrificed for social progress.
Re: CJinPA:
Timing: Just yesterday Keillor wrote a piece in the Washington Post defending Al Franken.
I'd never realised it (because I don't think I'd ever seen a photograph of Garrison Keillor before), but they look like they could be relatives, don't they? They both have a sort of distinctively squat, squarish, froggy looking face.
Another Lefty cocksucker.
"When you fine a public company, its shareholders -- pension funds and pensioners and all -- are the ones who actually "pay" the fine."
Certainly the case with AIG.
Special results in that one - the initial prosecution removed Maurice Greenberg, its guiding tyrant, and let a pack of hedge fund freaks take over and go nuts. Which contributed in no small way to the disasters of 2008, and the further martyrization of AIG, its un-implicated management and employees.
I used to work for AIG @30-35 years ago, and had much respect for it, and Mr. Greenberg.
@rhardin Rush is buying the moral turpitude line, which is a disappointment.
He's awful on morality and economics.
Rush has had too many personal problems of his own to have any moral high ground and he wisely avoids being sucked into the blame game vortex.
When I started work in the '70s, there was an informal policy at many firms that applied to both men and women: don't fish off the company pier. That obviously was violated, but the violations were frowned upon. In time, it went away. Now look at what happened.
Those old fogies who ran things for the first two-thirds of the 20th century had some things figured out.
Coed dorms have been another swamp for college students. Good luck getting that sorted out. Let me get this right: Women, all men are dangerous, but we want you to share intimate living space with them, and you can't be armed. Men, women are to be treated no differently than you would treat other men, but if the sexual attraction wires short-circuit, you are to blame...always.
That is some mixed messaging. What could go wrong?
"Who's next? Please don't let it be Ira Glass!"
Close but no cigar.
What did Ira know and when did he know it?
What a terrible, nasty piece of work Keillor is.
""I’m 75,” he said, “and don’t have any interest in arguing about this. I cannot in conscience bring danger to a great organization I’ve worked hard for since 1969,” he said. He also apologized to “all the poets whose work I won’t be reading on the radio and sorry for the people who will lose work on account of this.”..."
You're missing someone asshole.
I don't see Ira Glass rushing to the defense of Keillor the way Keillor did for Franken. "People who live in Glass houses...."
Whoa! Begone!
Haven't given Keeler or his show much thought since the episode where the news of Ronald Reagan's death was greeted by applause and cheers by his audience.
However, to his credit Keeler, did shush the crowd and gave a nice dedication to Reagan.
Oops Keeler should be Keillor of course. Stupid voice to text ...
Big Bird is next ...
Too bad Keillor didn't get the chance for one last poetry reading. He would've done well to read Donne:
Therefore, send not to know for whom the bell tolls:
It tolls for thee.
I'm amazed how quickly all this is happening. Just a short while ago it would take months after allegations were made until someone would leave their position. Now, one credible allegation and they're out.
This almost is becoming a daily fix - I check Drudge to see who's the latest to fall. There was a brief break during the Thanksgiving weekend but we've already had two today.
I was waiting for this, and didn't need to wait long. Keillor always had a mean streak, but a mean streak doesn't imply inappropriate sexual behavior. The relevant classifier is "progressive baby boomer".
We're going to need a bigger Weinsteinville for all the pervy Untouchables to move to.
So far today we’ve snagged the frat boy* and the chat boy*. Will the fat boy* be next?
*Lauer, Keillor, and Moore
Not just credible, but, apparently, established by a pattern of abuse, which was overlooked. However, now that the veil of privacy has been lifted, and the sacrificial babies... I mean, women, exposed, the tell-tale hearts beat ever louder and clearer.
Look. In 1985 Keillor tossed out his longtime live-in girlfriend, Margaret Moos, who was also his producer, to chase a Danish woman who had been an exchange student when he was in high school (they reconnected at a high school reunion). He ran off, got married to her, and eventually reality hit the happy couple. They divorced in 1990. He subsequently remarried in 1995. He self-identifies as a high-functioning autistic person, although he hasn't been diagnosed.
The guy's personal life has always been shambolic, so why wouldn't he try to get the pants off some staffer? He may just be a jerk, and the autism idea is how he explains himself to himself.
MPR is obviously cleaning house, and 75 year-old Keillor is a piece of furniture they don't need anymore. How are they going to go through the 2018 and 2020 election cycles in a totally woke mode with him hanging around? The same thing is happening at all the networks. Expendable, problematic people are being expended.
They are going to come back for runs at the GOP and Trump, waving Roy Moore (whether he wins or loses) and the Access Hollywood tape over their heads like a bloody shirt. Conyers? Gone or forgotten. Al Franken? Shoved to the back. Ted Kennedy? Dead. Bill Clinton? We threw him out. Harvey Weinstein? Never knew him, never really a Democrat, he's in treatment. Kevin Spacey? Not a Democrat, played one on TV.
All this is an attempt to clear a field of fire at the Republicans. When all the Dem pervs have been purged, there will only be Republican pervs remaining. Inga's got a list.
Ira Glass does not come across as a sexual weirdo. I've been a devotee of TAL for many many years and he is missing that particular do you like me? Am I funny? Are you paying attention to me?!?!? vibe that attention whore sex weirdos have.
Jeff Bezos is another one who has no creeper vibe. Tom Hanks.
I have long been suspicious of people who are described as charming or having charisma. More often than not they are sociopaths who carefully craft their persona. Watch out for the guys with charisma who are constantly trying to make impressions on people.
The word on the street in St Paul is that his on-air character was nothing like the real guy. A piece of work, as they say in Minnesota.
11/29/17, 1:18 PM
I've heard the same thing from friends in the Twin Cities.
First Lauer, then Keillor.
It's a good day.
Well, I for one want to apologize to all those asses I might have pinched over the past 73 years, though I don't really remember a single one, thank God! But I won't forget my having been attacked by four women who did a bit more than just pinch my ass! Thanks for the memories!
"All this is an attempt to clear a field of fire at the Republicans. When all the Dem pervs have been purged, there will only be Republican pervs remaining."
I think it's out of their control. Why would the Dems suddenly care about double standards?
I remember when the new left pushed out the fogies of the old left. The circle turns, and now the progressive left is pushing out the fogies of the new left.
Meanwhile across town, at the Hopkins studio where they used to make MST3K, Crow T Robot has been let go for harassing Gypsie. He would reportedly jump on her back while shouting "Yee haw. Bark like a dog". He claimed it was all in good fun.
Minnesota is a weird place. Funny, but weird.
Anyone notice a similarity between Garrison and Darth Sidious? That could explain a lot! https://goo.gl/images/msLcTr
Andrew Kreisberg is an American television writer, producer and comic book writer. He is best known as the creator of the television series Arrow, The Flash, Supergirl, and Legends of Tomorrow.
He just got fired today by Warner Bros. Seems he sexually harassed both men and women. Equality!
Did everyone note that jimbino is a sex machine? Because he wants you to know he's a sex machine. In case you forgot that he's a sex machine.
I love all the weirdos that this blog collects. I 100% mean that.
I'll join the chorus of those who think Keillor is a smug arsehole; good riddance to him and his unfunny radio crap. I tried to read that first Lake Wobegon book years ago when my grandma wouldn't stop raving about it and it was awful.
Seems as if a great big bunch of conservatives marched around the City of Jericho in Liberaland seven times, then sounded the shofar,
and the walls of liberal hypocrisy came tumbling down,
So we're wholly at the point where just an accusation is enough to end your career. Remember when the Vice-President caught so much shit for saying he wouldn't dine alone with a woman besides his wife?
We got headlines like this:
How Mike Pence's Refusing to Eat With Women Hurts Women (The Atlantic, 3-30-2017)
Mike Pence's Marriage and the Beliefs That Keep Women from Power (The New Yorker, 3-31-2017)
Actually, Creeps, Shutting Out Women Colleagues Isn’t the Answer to Sexual Abuse (Vogue, 10-11-2017)
Ira Glass and Terri Gross!!
When all the Dem pervs have been purged, there will only be Republican pervs remaining. Inga's got a list.
11/29/17, 2:41 PM
It's going to take them a very long time to purge all the Dem pervs.
I don't give the Dems credit for having developed an diabolical master plan here. I think they're genuinely surprised that the weapon they have wielded so long against Republicans has boomeranged back and smacked them in the balls.
The problem with "clearing the decks" is who is going to believe them when they say "OK, we've gotten rid of all our pervs, now let's focus on Trump?" What people are doing now is wondering why women like Cokie Roberts kept quiet for so long. The media took a big hit last November; this certainly isn't helping their credibility.
Of course they want to nail Trump on sexual harassment charges (or any charges at all), but the timing is off. By the time the next presidential campaign starts, the American public is going to be sick to death of these stories, especially at the rate they're coming out now. The Dems used to be better at timing stories for maximum effect, like the revelations about Dubya's DUI. They didn't even time the Moore accusations right - they gave him too much time to fight back.
Maybe I'm being optimistic but I think these revelations are not a sign of Leftist control, but a sign that they are losing control.
I Have Misplaced My Pants said...
Did everyone note that jimbino is a sex machine? Because he wants you to know he's a sex machine. In case you forgot that he's a sex machine."
He never once did it in a national park though.
I Have Misplaced My Pants said...
I love all the weirdos that this blog collects.
It's nice to be appreciated.
It's nice to be appreciated.
That depends. She might later decide she really didn't consensually appreciate you. Then yer fuqed.
"I started listening to Kiellor back in the 70s when he was doing the morning drive-time show on KSJN. Years of fan adoration knocked the aw-shucks out of him, I guess. The word on the street in St Paul is that his on-air character was nothing like the real guy. A piece of work, as they say in Minnesota."
Is anyone surprised? He's a writer and his on-air character is just that...a character. Most writers, I've heard, are cranky, over-sensitive and difficult.
I never listened to him, but he lived in New York for a while years ago. I remember seeing him in the aisles of my local Barnes and Noble. He definitely didn't look like someone I'd feel comfortable approaching to say "hello!"
Re: Andrew Kreisberg. I loved the Flash in the first two seasons. Then the writing became too convoluted.
Prairie Home Companion was good. = you did not catch the underlying mockery - Keillor mastered mocking fly-over country way before it become obvious.
"I think it's out of their control. Why would the Dems suddenly care about double standards?"
That is an interesting question. My assumption is that they believe the millennial generation of voters (an important part of their coalition) will require it of them. After all, most of the people being sacked are older white men.
Reading the NPR story about NPR Chief News Editor David Sweeney, who left the company today, is somewhat disturbing. It reads like a milder version of David Mamet's Oleanna. A little empathy would make one wonder if we have a man's mid-life crisis from ten years ago being blown up to a firing offense. The young female complainants come across as rather heartless and somewhat vindictive.
It is also disturbing that so many of these complaints reach back ten years or more. They aren't giving much credit for ten years of subsequent good behavior.
It could be that the story is poorly written, but it seems that the offenses are fairly mild.
Darkness at Noon is a warning, not a how-to manual.
Elmo was one of the first to go.
I was never under any illusions about GK, myself. He rather heavily hinted that something was afoot after he moved to NY and went on and on about the beautiful women there. You had to know that something was going on, some change was in the air. Prairie Home Companion was good.
He said he put his hand on a woman's bare back.
Seems trivial to me.
Unproven doesn't mean innocent, but if the accused does not mount a defense, it doesn't look good. Keillor had the chance, and he did not grab it. Only he knows why not.
As for Arthur Andersen, the feds' decision to lob a charge effectively ran the firm out of business. No matter that the case fell apart. No matter that all the remaining big firms have done equally bad or worse things, multiple times, since. (I know a former partner whose seven-figure stake was incinerated and a couple then-new partners who spent years paying off loans for their worthless equity.)
In both cases, it's worth taking the longer view. For a one-trick pony, Keillor had a pretty good run. The Andersen partners found other work, and their families didn't starve. OTOH, there are people out there whose children are dying of cancer.
GK was really great in the early 1980s. Really appointment radio.
He jumped the shark when he reunited with the Danish sweetheart, and he turned very mean since 2001.
But some of his early stuff was pretty affecting. I recommend Gospel Birds, if you can find it. It starts out seeming to mock small town religious beliefs, but by the end he was totally buying into them himself.
Like the Golux, he thought the tale of buried treasure might be true.
"The young female complainants come across as rather heartless and somewhat vindictive."
Just like the young female accusers in "The Crucible." Despite my glee at seeing the libs in hot water, I recognize the danger here. Women do lie about this sort of thing, and it might make employees reluctant to hire them, for the same reason, some employees might worry privately that black or Hispanic employees might play the "racism" card. What if this recent college grad doesn't do her work very well, and you reprimand or fire her? Will she come back at you with a sexual harassment charge? In one sense, being falsely accused of sexual harassment is worse than being called a racist, because it might very well put a great strain on a man's marriage (which will already be strained by the financial woes that come from losing one's job.)
However - this is the world the liberals created. Let them suffer the consequences too. Perhaps, once this latest bout of American moral hysteria will finally end, we will be able to examine these claims in a more objective light. Some of them are true; some are not. Some claims are serious; others are trivial. We have to sort these out unless we want to live in a world where men feel like they have to wear body cams to ensure they are not wrongly or maliciously accused.
We need to quit using the phrase "liberal icon" and start using the more appropriate phrase "liberal asshole".
AmIright?
Oh, and one more thing, where are the wearers of the "pussy hats" now? Do you women realize what a stupid thing you did?
FullMoon said...
He said he put his hand on a woman's bare back.
--
That's all I've heard so far. So...???
BTW,
Seems Keillor is employing some sort of reverse or self-ageism to avoid discussion.
1: Thank you for that Spy article. That was laugh out loud funny!
2: He put his hand on her bare back, where her shirt had slipped open, and then slid it up six inches
I'm trying to understand this, and failing. Did the shirt button in the back? How open was it in front? Was he behind her, or in front of her?
Oh, well, if she doesn't want it all discussed in public, we should leave her in peace.
If Keillor was willing to fight this, and claim to not actually be guilty, we could be more pushy. But since he's not willing to defend himself, i see no need to, either.
If it weren't so sad that innocent people can be caught up in this shit storm of sexual accusations.....it would be hilarious in a poetic justice type of way.
The liberals thought that they had a path to make Trump pay for the gall of running and winning the Presidency. They would tar him with sexual harassment and other icky accusations. However, with Harvey Weinstein and that mess........ and then the blowback about Clinton,........ then the rank (as in stinky smelly) hypocrisy about Franken, Conyers being OK because they are icons and strategic placeholders in Congress..... and the expose of the Congressional hush fund paying off sexual and workplace harassment with taxpayer money...and...and....and...and..
The expected shit storm has blow up in the Democrat's faces. They opened up Pandora's Box and got bitten in the ass. The shit is all over mostly them. Yes some Republicans have been bad boy and girls too. However the majority caught out are Democrats. The ones who snottily presume to lecture the rest of us on being Deplorable and Irredeemable.
HA!
The attrition in Hollywood and the political arena is glorious.
Now. Make it stop before it ruins the rest of society and people stop interacting with each other because they are afraid. We can't keep up with this foolishness or the ever changing rules of engagement.
I guess the hysteria needs to run its course, but really....make it stop.
I enjoyed PHC and even attended a taping once in NYC (musical guest, the Roches, whom I loved) but always thought NFLW the low point of the show. Didn't have right midwestern, scandanavian, protestant sensibility, I guess.
The Maenads are loose. Katie, bar the door.
He ain't fallen from shit.
His email underscores just how asinine and insane this litigious female discomfort hysteria really is:
“Getting fired is a real distinction in broadcasting and I’ve waited fifty years for the honor. All of my heroes got fired. I only wish it could’ve been for something more heroic.”
Then he turned more serious: “Anyone who ever was around my show can tell you that I was the least physically affectionate person in the building. Actors hug, musicians hug, people were embracing every Saturday night left and right, and I stood off in the corner like a stone statue.
“If I had a dollar for every woman who asked to take a selfie with me and who slipped an arm around me and let it drift down below the beltline, I’d have at least a hundred dollars. So this is poetic irony of a high order. But I’m just fine. I had a good long run and am grateful for it and for everything else.”
If a woman feels uncomfortable within 50 feet of your vicinity and you are a male then you are obviously the one to blame and must be immediately castrated - financially and socially if not physically. Those are the rules in this America.
You can't fuck with a writer, though. If they're talented enough at the art of observation and narration - as Keillor is - then they will get you twice as good. As they should.
WTF has this hypersensitive nobody of a woman and her goddamn lawyer ever done for the world that even remotely compares to what the awkward, shy, gargantuan giant of a storyteller Keillor has done? Not a goddamn thing, as far as I can see. Fuck both of them. I'm tired of this bullshit. I was tired of it in the 90s.
DBQ, they can't stop. Hypocrisy is all they have. Without the double standard, they have nothing of value to add/help with the conversation. That will never change.
The question I have about the facts of some of these complaints is whether clumsy passes made by men with no retribution and no adverse consequences to the subject are being blown up into sexual harassment allegations. The Sweeney case I mentioned above doesn't look like much. The superior may have developed a crush on a subordinate, made one clumsy pass which was rejected, and then took an interest in the subordinate, including small gifts, invitations to business events and attempts to get to know the subordinate better.
It looks a lot like an attempt--albeit not accepted as such-- at "mentoring", a concept that is rapidly being consigned to the scrapheap, at least where older men and younger women are concerned. Maybe these things are what the complainants say--improper advances for ulterior motives. Or maybe they are part of the rub of everyday life.
It is a hell of a thing to lose a senior management job over a stolen kiss ten years ago.
The attrition in Hollywood and the political arena is glorious.
Now. Make it stop before it ruins the rest of society and people stop interacting with each other because they are afraid. We can't keep up with this foolishness or the ever changing rules of engagement.
I guess the hysteria needs to run its course, but really....make it stop.
Hysteria? You yourself sound giddier than a schoolgirl.
So it looks like you're the one who's perpetuating it. You're the one who thinks this is a good way to get some political victories.
How incompetent must your party and political ideology be if this is the only way left for it to get anywhere? (Rhetorical question, of course. That's all you're in it for).
He said he put his hand on a woman's bare back.
Seems trivial to me.
Sure. Until one learns where the other hand might have been.
However - this is the world the liberals created.
Lol. Oh yes! The repressed, sex-hating social conservatives were always so much in the vanguard against it! Whatever.
It's an American problem - right and left. And has very little to do with identity politics. It has to do with a complete inability to relate to the truth, to each other, and yes, to sex. Both the right and the left are brutally handicapped in these things - especially the latter two.
The Toothless Revolutionary said...
However - this is the world the liberals created.
Lol. Oh yes! The repressed, sex-hating social conservatives were always so much in the vanguard against it! Whatever.
Those conservatives, with their bourgeois morality, told people how to avoid all this. For which they were derided as "repressed, sex-hating". Well, now you have all this.
Enjoy!
Well, let me tell you something, toothless -- think about how far you would have went in life if you would have had one tooth. You could have been in the movies. Not as the star attraction, but in the movies.
We listened to PHC for a long time. I really admired his way with a story. The joke shows were a highlight, and the song parodies very amusing.
I remember his first Woebegon book, that had as a footnote a young man's list of why he had to get away from Lake Woebegon. It struck the right note of arrogant pomposity and loathing for people who lived small, but satisfying lives.
Tis a pity his political leanings interfered with his artistic ambitions.
He was a gifted story teller. I always envied him that.
"Lol. Oh yes! The repressed, sex-hating social conservatives were always so much in the vanguard against it! Whatever."
Social conservatives historically were rather far from being repressed.
In the old days these gentlemen of the establishment were the opposite. This was a bit of a theme of the 19th century. Its played amusingly in the new BBC "Victoria", where liberal little Victoria figures out that all these pillars of the establishment all have a mistress or three.
Heck, the Duke of Wellington may have challenged Wilt Chamberlain.
Sexual repression was a Liberal thing, brought in by a progressive bourgeoisie. They were not seen as social conservatives at the time, but radicals.
DBQ: "...make it stop." Sorry. The #MeToo firestorm is now at full strength. It will draw whatever oxygen it needs to burn every last scrap of fuel; and the definition of fuel is widened because the temperature is so high. Almost any material can be brought to its ignition point in this conflagration. So we are seeing not just ordinary egregious cases of obvious assault by bad actors; instead we are seeing fantastic accusations, from almost a full lifetime ago, based on every half-remembered or imaginary incident, every last glance and gesture, no matter how innocent or harmless.
Quite a moment in our history...
Those conservatives, with their bourgeois morality, told people how to avoid all this. For which they were derided as "repressed, sex-hating". Well, now you have all this.
Exactly! That's why you're part of the problem, Roger Chillingworth. Puritanism doesn't solve anything. It's not even an attempt to. It's like saying that the answer to nuclear waste and warheads is to un-invent the knowledge and the technology of nuclear physics. You really are quite the caveman, aren't you?
Well, too bad you can't take a club to the internet and people's sex lives. Not the way you can take one to your own genitals.
Stop being a weirdo and start dealing with reality.
Social conservatives historically were rather far from being repressed.
Well, they certainly are uptight. But it is true that most of their repression they direct into trying to repress others. They are real control freaks that way.
WTF has this hypersensitive nobody of a woman and her goddamn lawyer ever done for the world that even remotely compares to what the awkward, shy, gargantuan giant of a storyteller Keillor has done? Not a goddamn thing, as far as I can see. Fuck both of them. I'm tired of this bullshit. I was tired of it in the 90s.
11/29/17, 4:42 PM
Cannot excuse a genuine sexual predator because he is more valuable than the victim. Don't believe that is what you meant to say.
Down here in the depths of the blue collar deplorable world, equating grab ass, flirting, crude jokes and eyeballin' tits with whacking your dick in front of an unwilling audience, or actual penile penetration of anothers' orifice doesn't make any sense at all.
Additionally, believing every woman who tells a story with conviction does not mean the story is true. Many sociopaths can spin a mind boggling detailed story and stick to it. Another thing, sometimes a little lie grows out of proportion because the liar doesn't want to be exposed as such. Tawana Bradly and mattress girl come immediately to mind.
Owen: The #MeToo firestorm is now at full strength. It will draw whatever oxygen it needs to burn every last scrap of fuel; and the definition of fuel is widened because the temperature is so high. Almost any material can be brought to its ignition point in this conflagration.
............
Quite a moment in our history...
Yes. I know. The fire has gotten out of control and burning down houses (people) who are innocent bystanders or whose faults are so minimal.
I feel weird having witnessed and lived through both ends of this spectrum. From the sexually repressed 1950's, the birth of Rock and Roll, to the burgeoning Sex Revolution of the 60's with its psychedelic fervor and birth control to free us from the 50's, free love and horrible clothing of the 70's, Boogie Nites and cocaine fueled years of the 80's. I can't name the 90's as I wasn't involved or paying much attention in those years.
And now the pendulum has swung back again to the repressed sexual rules of the 50's, except WORSE. Now is it is a nasty struggle between men and women.
Nothing good is going to come of this.
This is the best Althouse thread that I've read in months. There were at least a dozen comments on which I wanted to expand or amplify by the time I reached the end. And there were others that intersected with each other in ways the authors did not intend but which interestingly melded. Damn. Too much from which to pick. So oh well, let it all stand on its own.
I doubt very much that the women who allege that Lauer and Kellior (and Rose and Conyers) harassed them are conservatives. Conservatives are rather thin on the ground at NPR. But, hey, nice try at blaming social conservatives for what looks like a blue on blue civil war.
As a former PHC fan who got increasingly turned off by Keillor's pious "liberalism," let me off this sincere response to his downfall: a hearty, Nelson Muntz like "HA HA!!!"
Especially as he aged, someone as ugly as Keillor (not just conventional, Harvey Weinstein type ugliness but a freakish, it-came-from-another-species kind of ugly) probably needed to use his position to get laid. I know life isn't like an Ayn Rand novel, where the pro-freedom people are good-looking and the statists are all trolls; but I often wonder if many of today's ugly "liberals" (and there seem to be a lot of them, especially among women) are motivated by their ugliness to become statists. I've noticed that unattractive people often have a chip on their shoulder and want to "get back" against society.
But, hey, nice try at blaming social conservatives for what looks like a blue on blue civil war.
Yes, of course! It's a political thing to see men solely in economic terms. Not social. And certainly not conservative! No siree, bob.
Every comment on this thread shows just how little conservatives understand about sex, and about society, and how blundering they are at resolving this problem no less than on every other.
Just exit the stage, already! You people couldn't locate your ways out of a paper bag. But thanks for the lecture on how everything is someone else's fault. We've heard it from you power hungry control freaks for decades. But it least it sank in to all those women who think that their every wayward emotion is someone else's fault.
BTW, how fearful did those evil Muslims make you feel today?
And as soon as I complimented this thread, Ritmo runs it down. Unexpectedly.
Of course, this is the world liberals created - the males like Weinstein and Ted Kennedy and Clinton and Lauer who felt it was perfectly fine to behave like pigs in private because they gave lip service to feminism and supported a woman's "right to choose." What selfish lecher wouldn't? And it's also the fault of SJW women who absurdly equate triva like "the male gaze" with rape, hate men, and love playing the victim. Those two groups have collided and it's the men who are going to lose.
Ritmo, you can spit venom at Comservatives all you want - but your side won the Culture Wars a long time ago. Comgrats. now enjoy the results.
Oh stop collectivizing, CWJ. My response was to mainstreet. Don't be like one of those emotional wimmins who think that everything that happens within a 50 foot radius of their vicinity is a personal affront to their person, their state of mind and their feelings!
But other than that, it's nice to know how you're feeling!
"Every comment on this thread..."
Yeah that was very individual commenter specific.
Up your game.
"Every comment on this thread shows just how little conservatives understand about sex"
This may be quite easy to study actually.
If we take it that the proper view of sex = successful reproduction (a useful metric for studying wildlife after all), then birthrate is an excellent metric. This leaves out irrelevancies about the preferences of tiny minorities, or fashions and fads or the madness of crowds. Or inflated sense of personal importance. As individuals in the mass we each separately matter very little.
https://inductivist.blogspot.com/2012/03/why-do-wealthy-white-conservative-women.html
I have seen many like this, out of GSS data. Pew may have done some also.
Oho, nobody here understands sex like Ritmo does! Nobody has any life experience except for having sex with the missus in the missionary position only. Only Ritmo is a free spirit!
Jesus, do you realize how ridiculous and stupid you sound? Do you think this is 1956 and you're a beatnik lecturing the squares?
Do you ever actually read what other people write?
"Every comment on this thread shows just how little conservatives understand about sex, and about society, and how blundering they are at resolving this problem no less than on every other.
Just exit the stage, already! "
Ah..only 5:42 and Toothless has gone 90% Humlaut.
Pace yourself..
Miserable sinner that I am, I am willing to forgive the author of Bruno the Fishing Dog quite a lot. Of course, forgiveness is not mine to give. Anyone who wishes to weaponize Moral Perfectionism had better be careful where they point the damn thing. It could ricochet.
Of course, this is the world liberals created - the males like Weinstein and Ted Kennedy and Clinton and Lauer who felt it was perfectly fine to behave like pigs in private because they gave lip service to feminism and supported a woman's "right to choose."
Right. Everyone who ever flirted or socialized or had sex in America got their cues on that from Ted Kennedy and Harvey Weinstein. Sure. I believe that the intimate details of each of their sex lives were not only well-known, but distributed in the form of a guidebook that was to be consulted upon penalty of death. You're delusional.
Ritmo, you can spit venom at Comservatives all you want - but your side won the Culture Wars a long time ago.
Lol. Comservatives Was that a deliberate typo?
There is no such thing as a "culture war" -- or as your ideological forebears referred to it in their native German, Kulturkampf. That's a bunch of bunk. Conservatives believe it because they believe that human behavior can be controlled, even when they rail against incentives such as those described by Sunstein/Thaler as "oppressive." The only way to control a culture is if the state does it, so I guess that's what you're agitating for. There's no other way; just like you can't control individual behavior. That you seem to understand. But you tend to be more collectivists when it comes to controlling group behavior. Interesting.
All the liberals did was to say it wasn't worth getting uptight about what consenting adults do. They're correct about that. You hate it because you hate the idea that individual autonomy (i.e. "consent") could be that important and you object to the idea of adults not being childish enough to need to consult "authorities" on what should make them happy. Of course in a free society your viewpoint on that would lose.
Now, as for what the liberals actually did win - I think the answer to that is: WWII, triumph over fascism and Nazism, ending the Great Depression and preventing another one for as long as it took until conservatives reinstated their pre-Depression era policies, and the economic and technological post-war booms.
I can see why you're so resentful. But that doesn't make you right, Grasshopper.
Oho, nobody here understands sex like Ritmo does! Nobody has any life experience except for having sex with the missus in the missionary position only. Only Ritmo is a free spirit!
Jesus, do you realize how ridiculous and stupid you sound?
I dunno. You're the one putting words in my mouth, Jesus. So why don't you tell me how you sound?
Do you ever actually read what other people write?
Only when it's either:
1. Rational
2. Creative, or
3. Not mindlessly conformist.
You don't like those standards, do you?
Mindlessly non-conformist however is also pretty bad. Conservatives have been up to a lot of that, lately, as well.
"There is no such thing as a "culture war" "
Most certainly there is.
Look at your state university and what its course offerings are, and their descriptions.
it occurs to me that this is happening as the boomer feminists are retiring. the boomer feminists knew many liberal men were pigs. They were willing to forgive kennedy's and Dodds waitress sandwich and The Ongoing Adventures of Billy Jeff because those men held the correct political views. But the young zealots the (left wing) colleges are producing now have been trained to root out heretics like pigs going after truffles, and they are humorless and unforgiving of any transgressions against Sacred Womanhood. they are also unimpressed with quaint notions like the first Amendment and due process. That's perfectly fine, as far as ARM and Ritmo are concerned, as long as they target conservatives. But they've now aiming at the old liberal coots who are being held accountable for behavior everyone turned a blind eye to for years. so Ritmo does the logical thing and blames socons for this mess.
of course there is a culture war, fool.
Most certainly there is.
Bullshit. Webster defines the word as:
a : the customary beliefs, social forms, and material traits of a racial, religious, or social group; also : the characteristic features of everyday existence (such as diversions or a way of life) shared by people in a place or time popular culture Southern culture
b : the set of shared attitudes, values, goals, and practices that characterizes an institution or organization a corporate culture focused on the bottom line
Most anthropologists would add other, natural group behaviors such as language, etc. If you think those things can be settled by coercive means then you are not fit for life in a free society. They can't. They can't be forced on individual people and they can't be forced on groups and onto group behaviors.
Look at your state university and what its course offerings are, and their descriptions.
It's an economic problem. University education is a glut because conservative economic policies have outsourced American manufacturing and favored owners over labor. So the only way to get ahead is with a degree. Congratulations! You have no made universities masters of the market for a young person's success. True monopolizers of that market. So of course they're going to get bland and oppressive. That's how how all monopolists are. Just like network tv and McDonalds. Bland, boring, unoffensive to the vast majority of humanity that has no choice but to be held captive to their market and their means.
"Now, as for what the liberals actually did win - I think the answer to that is: WWII"
WWII was won by production, by people like my wife's uncle, who designed the hydraulic system for the P51 Mustang. And an inventor (had patents) of the common household thermostat. Not a liberal by any stretch. And my father in law, master machinist who built naval diesels at Cummins, ditto.
The brains, nerves, bones and muscle of the US (and allied) military-industrial complex that won that war were conservative.
Wars are won mainly by people who do, not people who speak. The really valuable people speak in tonnage, not words.
This error in judgement is common.
It is an easy mistake for people who notice words only, and not physical reality.
none of your own comments meet your own criteria, Ritmo. you are boringly, predictably conformist and champion policies that were in vogue in the 1930s. how original!
of course there is a culture war, fool.
That's as oxymoronic as saying that there's a love war.
They're mutually exclusive terms.
Coercion is for people who can't convince.
If culture can't convince, it loses.
The Nazis had a culture, of sorts. It required great external, non-cultural pressure to sustain. i.e. a fascist right-wing racist government.
They also agreed with you on the important place of the government of making sure to define and control the "right" sort of culture.
Revel in your agreement with them! Their means are unpopular, but they did what had to be done to get your way.
champion policies that were in vogue in the 1930s
policies aren't about what's "in vogue," young child. They're about what's good for a country.
The 1930s led to some very good things for America. The 1920s did the opposite.
WWII was won by production..
Your production is lagging, buwaya! Whip yourself into shape!
"Coercion is for people who can't convince."
True.
This is culture war -
http://columbiaspectator.com/opinion/2017/10/30/countering-hate-with-speech-not-silence/
Was, let us say, leaned on, therefore it was followed by -
https://columbiaspectator.com/opinion/2017/11/21/letter-to-the-editor-cu-dems-statement-of-redaction-and-responsibility/
Note, this is not unique, it is typical.
Thanks for not disagreeing with me, bubuwawa.
Maybe next time you'll actually engage my point.
But most likely, you won't. You get distracted easily.
"Your production is lagging, buwaya! Whip yourself into shape!"
I'm over the hill, now. You are going to have to start funding my pension quite soon.
I am concerned about the prospect of that, frankly. I'm not sure you are up to it.
But regardless, your view of history is quite wrong.
History is made by an immense mass of horseshoe nails - you are familiar with the old rhyme?
That is a very conservative view of it, and the only correct one.
You can't teach an old fart new licks.
There is no culture war. There are people who have culture, and there are people who hate it. They see it as a distraction from their coercive, control-freak agenda.
You can lead a whore to culture but you can't make her think.
How fitting! Once again, I challenge any conservative to point out for me a policy that a Republican endorsed that was less well funded among the lobbies supporting him.
Conservatives don't need culture. They want money and power instead. That's their choice.
The best things in life are free. Including policies that weren't endorsed by the COC or billionaires pursuing office for their own benefit like Trump.
"Maybe next time you'll actually engage my point. "
I did. Your error is you misunderstand your own point.
The culture war is not what you think is the culture war.
This is an immense conflict on many fronts.
The origins of one aspect can be found in "The Closing of the American Mind", Allan Bloom. Essential reading.
Another is in Pat Moynihan's famous white paper -
especially this chapter -
https://www.dol.gov/oasam/programs/history/moynchapter4.htm
He wrote of the crisis of the black family - now it is all of them.
and many more. Decadence is complex.
Toothelss says
Every comment on this thread shows just how little conservatives understand about sex, and about society, and how blundering they are at resolving this problem no less than on every other.
Just exit the stage, already! You people couldn't locate your ways out of a paper bag. But thanks for the lecture on how everything is someone else's fault. We've heard it from you power hungry control freaks for decades. But it least it sank in to all those women who think that their every wayward emotion is someone else's fault.
BTW, how fearful did those evil Muslims make you feel today?
Everybody I know is more concerned about global warming, floods, famine, over population high temps, low temps,pollution and end of the earth stuff more than the Muslim problem
11/29/17, 5:26 PM
Moynihan was concerned with policy, old fart. That's why he was a legislator.
If you don't like the structure of black families then why do you suppose that the white slaveowners who for centuries raped them and separated them and outlawed their natural unions did so little harm?
I have this recollection that he was in a relationship with his producer(?) Margaret Moos, until he moved and married someone else.
Looks like some of the previous entries were by disagreeable folks.
" and there are people who hate it."
Everyone has culture. The question is about its nature. There are better and worse aspects of culture, that provide differential real-world results across populations. Some are adaptive for certain environments and niches. Some are adaptive only if there is some other culture which is sufficiently productive as to permit the survival of sub cultures that would not be suited for survival independently. And so on. It is a fascinating topic.
"The best things in life are free."
Indeed, that is a conservative thing, always has been. The Liberal establishment rejects that idea with a passion.
Everyone has culture.
Bullshit. By definition it's a group phenomenon - not something possessed by every "one." The more of a mind you have, the more you can participate within it. Try seeing how much culture is engaged at an assisted living facility or psychiatric ward. Or a mega-church, for that matter.
Indeed, that is a conservative thing, always has been.
By making people poor and decreasing their purchasing power, you mean? Well, yes. Conservatives have done a great job of that.
But they also did what needed to be done to get us a few billionaires here or there. So they consider that a fair trade and tell the rest of America that its poverty is just the way things are and should be.
"Moynihan was concerned with policy, old fart. That's why he was a legislator."
Not at the time (1965).
Note that the report is concerned about the decline of social statistics regarding the black family even as US society was relaxing the state of oppression on black people generally. As for why this happened, assume away, but you are certainly wrong; this sort of thing is vastly more complicated than that. There are whole literatures on it.
And it does not explain why you see exactly the same things in white families now.
This is part of the trench line of the culture war.
Toothless riddles:
If you don't like the structure of black families then why do you suppose that the white slaveowners who for centuries raped them and separated them and outlawed their natural unions did so little harm?
11/29/17, 6:24 PM
Whuut?
And it does not explain why you see exactly the same things in white families now.
Lower marriage, higher divorce rates? What's wrong with that? It's a natural consequence of conservative hatred for labor as an inferior means of production to ownership, so why wouldn't women continue with their natural urge to make more people while not giving a shit about family? What does family do to indulge the materialism in her that you've declared to be the priority in these last dozen economic cycles? Sorry, nationalism alone won't reverse the fate of what your ideology has reduced the American laborer to.
You have to make a choice. Either love of money or love of people. Love of country is beside the point. It doesn't address why it is that you and your kind love money over people.
By making people poor and decreasing their purchasing power, you mean? Well, yes. Conservatives have done a great job of that.
Right, by raising taxes making poor people welfare dependent raising minimum wage, unionizing entry level jobs.
Oh, wait...
"Or a mega-church, for that matter. "
Quite a lot. I have worked with many evangelicals on charity matters.
You would be surprised who goes, who is, and what they know.
Contempt is a matter of ignorance.
"Bullshit. By definition it's a group phenomenon"
You, the individual, have been programmed by your group in ways you may not realize until you have to deal with people of very different programming. You bear your culture with you, inevitably. Unless you want to do the usual sterile argument about word definitions.
"By making people poor and decreasing their purchasing power, you mean? "
The world is growing remarkably rich. The proper metric is median income.
The US has stagnated in median income growth as the regulatory state has expanded immensely. Do not bother with the world as presented to you in the media, that is mere foolishness and propaganda. Look up your own statistics and professional journals.
And US billionaires are almost uniformly "liberal". One of the most outspoken, Mr. Steyer, made his wealth in "wealth management". There is a reason for this.
"Lower marriage, higher divorce rates? What's wrong with that? "
Bad for the kids, bad for society, bad for the economy. Kids are much more poorly socialized and unable to bear their due burden of civilization.
Family, childbearing, and socialization of the young are human nature and survival necessities. None of this can be blown off. The result of a failure to form families and properly care for children is cruelty, not love.
"Conservatives don't need culture. They want money and power instead. That's their choice."
And Democrats want pussy and blow jobs.
Please, define what you mean by CULTURE. It's a slippery term with a lot of uses, especially by sociology and anthropology people by which they do not mean refinement or (as my grandmother used to say) breeding.
Talking to bubuwawa is like talking to a wall. A wall that thinks it's alive.
Especially hilarious is the way he confuses the homage shown by Republicans to moneyed interests with the way billionaires may or may not vote. I guess now only billionaires are allowed to own conservative lobbies. Whatever.
Where does a wall like you go to sleep at night, bubuwawa?
So, all the networks, all the studios. What about Chik-fil-A? Any such scandals there? Chuck?
Weinstein is a perv-eyor of specialized hortiCulture.
He has a green..never mind..
What Jim Gust said. Keillor had his best years in the early 80's. My disenchantment came with the firing of Butch Thompson and Peter Oshtrushko (sp?) He just faded away out of my life after that. Later, I would read things he wrote and I concluded he really was a lost cause.
Keillor was mildly amusing thirty years ago. Then he rapidly degenerated into a mouth-breathing, tooth-sucking automaton able only to mouth paltry liberal shibboleths that even the most addled geriatric hippie knows as stale bullshit. He would have done better to have stayed in Denmark (the Danes hated him, btw) and ended his miserable existence by walking over a long-lost Nazi landmine. Instead, he came back to this country and ruined what remained of untrammeled public radio.
GOOD FUCKING RIDDANCE!!!!!!!!
Ira Glass and Terri Gross!!
Yikes! The mere thought will put me off my feed for a week.
Well, it's one way to lose weight...
"Who's next?"
We should have a dead pool. Who's your guess? I saw on Twitter that Keith Olbermann was gloating about Lauer; I guess they didn't get along. Probably that didn't-roll-over-for-Clinton-enough thing. But given how egotistical and unpleasant he is, I'd be shocked if Olbermann somehow turned out to be a creep and a jerkoff in every way except this one. His day must be coming.
Especially hilarious is the way he confuses the homage shown by Republicans to moneyed interests with the way billionaires may or may not vote.
That's pretty funny coming from a guy who defends Google's nearly complete market domination in the area of information distribution. What qualifies, exactly, as a "monied interest" if not Google? And who did their bidding by imposing "net neutrality" which was in fact, only taking sides with the big bucks at Alphabet.
Robert Cook: So, to punish Keillor for an unspecified (and unproven?) transgression, they're going to punish all the people who work for his company, (companies?). That's the way to go, of course!
Line up half the village against a wall and shoot 'em, deport the other half. Sorry, that's just the way these things always work themselves out, comrade.
"Prairie Home Companion was good. = you did not catch the underlying mockery - Keillor mastered mocking fly-over country way before it become obvious." Right, Keillor's soothing radio voice disguised the contempt he had for the people he parodied in his Lake Wobegon tales. If you read his books, you can see more clearly that he did not like or respect the people he portrayed there.
BTW, based on what I read, he is admitting only that he ran his hand up under a woman's blouse on her back, and she didn't like it. There has to be more to it than that or all this would not be happening to his private companies and contracts. I would have more respect for these guys if one of them would say, "Yeah, I wanted to share pleasure with that woman. I'm sorry she didn't want it, but I'm not sorry I tried."
FullMoon, if you're looking for sound, rational economics, don't turn to the Toothless State-fellator. He's one of those guys who for decades have been lobbying for repeal of the Law of Supply and Demand.
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