October 17, 2017

"What Would Women Be Doing if We Weren’t Constantly Dealing With Male Abuse?"

"The torrent of #MeToo stories reveals just how much time we spend dealing with this shit," writes Joan Walsh in The Nation.

The last 2 paragraphs confused me:
Then I think about a couple of consensual experiences with men hugely my superiors. The come-ons took me by surprise, and flattered me, and seemed real. Like, of course I deserve this attention! I’m great! Or at least pretty great, right? In none of these instances was I chasing a job, or an affair either. I was flattered by the unexpected attention of a powerful man I respected. I knew I could learn from them; I enjoyed spending time with them. Also, by the way, they were married, so it was safe, right? I confidently spent time alone with them, believing they were interested in my mind and my work. Who wouldn’t be?

They weren’t. I would eventually learn that there was no actual relationship offer on the table, and no professional benefit either. And again I felt like: I am a fucking fool.
That sounds like she accepted a date and wanted a relationship (and even liked that the guy was an adulterer). Let's not mush everything together! This #MeToo stuff could get really stupid. At least she announces I am a fucking fool. I know, she means back then. But she's using the present tense.

IN THE COMMENTS: Freeman Hunt said:
Yeah, a married guy who chases after young women is safe--who thinks this way?
Absolutely no one. Joan Walsh, who is 59 years old, is still selling herself as a naive, innocent girl. She was going out with some other woman's husband, as far as I can tell. Look, we're in an important moment, when women can come together and support other women. Don't mess it up with bullshit like this.

182 comments:

Chuck said...

Was Joan Walsh one of the lefties who made fun of Mike Pence? You know; for maintain a personal rule against professional or social meetings with any women alone? I am guessing that Walsh had to be one of the lefties ridiculing that. A quick search didn't turn anything up; my guess is that a more extensive search (transcripts of appearances, etc.) would turn up something.

rehajm said...

I knew this was never really about HW. I couldn't figure it out but the photo at the link crystalizes the retail political motive of all this.

NorthOfTheOneOhOne said...

Why do I keep thinking that #MeToo is going to backfire feminism?

Bay Area Guy said...

I was flattered by the unexpected attention of a powerful man I respected. I knew I could learn from them; I enjoyed spending time with them. Also, by the way, they were married, so it was safe, right? I confidently spent time alone with them, believing they were interested in my mind and my work. Who wouldn’t be?

Chicks dig power. But often that power comes back to bite ya.

Also, beware chicks who sleep with married men -- they lack self-discipline and integrity.

n.n said...

Denying relationships is a ten yard penalty/moral progression.

Conflation of relationships is a loss of possession/dignity.

Is sexual harassment of the involuntary kind (e.g. rape-rape) mostly consensual?

Is sexual harassment of the superior kind (e.g. rape) mostly judgmental?

It's no wonder that dysfunction and confusion (DC) is a progressive condition (PC).

darrenoia said...

I don't get the impression she likes that the guy was an adulterer. She thought she was safe from that kind of advance being alone with a married man, because he's married and therefore wouldn't hit on her.

Matthew Sablan said...

"I know, she means back then. But she's using the present tense."

-- In her defense, I think the italics indicates she means for there to be a shift, so we now don't have Current Her narrating, but rather, this is a quote from Young Me.

Donna B. said...

Jump on the wagon and signal virtuous victimhood!

Titus said...

#me too. i am now ready to tell my story.

Ignorance is Bliss said...

I know, she means back then. But she's using the present tense.

She used the past tense for felt, so it was the present at the time she felt it, which was in the past.

Matthew Sablan said...

"She thought she was safe from that kind of advance being alone with a married man, because he's married and therefore wouldn't hit on her."

-- Doesn't mesh with the rest of the quote: "The come-ons took me by surprise, and flattered me, and seemed real."

She knew they were come-ons. What she thought she was safe from is unclear from the bit excerpted here.

Clayton Hennesey said...

Say what you want, but women who trade even passive submission to male advances short of physical abuse or rape for career or other opportunities ultimately remain willing merchants. It's uncivil and of course unfair for the woman, but let's not dismiss the bilateral quid pro quo being brokered here, Jennifer Lawrence.

TreeJoe said...

"I would eventually learn that there was no actual relationship offer on the table, and no professional benefit either"

....so you spent time "alone" with a married man, allowed/promoted it to progress in the hopes of either a relationship (with a married man) or professional benefit, and then thought yourself a fool because the guy just wanted sex & validation? Yes, there's ALOT of foolish thinking there.

Tari said...

"This #MeToo stuff could get really stupid." I think it started out stupid and is on its way downhill from there. The left is trying to distract from the fact that the problem in Hollywood is largely caused by the sex-saturated and immoral culture pimped by the entertainment industry 24/7. They want you to think that this stuff happens all the time in all industries. It doesn't. They also want you to morally equate a movie producer who says "if you want this role, get on your knees" with that drunk co-worker who pinched your bottom once at an office party. Bullshit. Women are not constantly dealing with male abuse. Anyone who thinks so is delusional.

I'm glad I'm not a leftie, in part because I would be so disappointed, not being able to tweet #metoo with all my sistahs. Because despite living in Neanderthal Texas for 25 years, no one has ever so much as pinched me.

MayBee said...

She thought she was safe from being pressured into a full time relationship, or promising someone a future.

Patrick Henry was right! said...

So, do women have free will or not?

I'm confused......

exiledonmainstreet said...

"Also, by the way, they were married, so it was safe, right?"

Oh, for Chrissake. Did she just fall off a turnip truck last week?

Bob Ellison said...

Please make it stop.

I have to speak up, and I hate to do so in first person. I've never raped or otherwise abused a woman. The worst I did, and I regret it to this day, was to punch my sister when I was about nine years old.

You girls gotta grow up. We boys are not all rapists and harassers. You make us stop listening when you keep claiming we all are.

And just so you know, we boys have stuff to deal with. Especially us short boys.

Stop, for your own sakes.

n.n said...

I knew this was never really about HW.

Of course not. It's about political maneuvering between Democratic factions exploiting HW for leverage, but the protagonist is rightly characterized as enablers, and their traditional collusion will not be so easily forgotten or forgiven. So, the water carriers in the mainstream press have been mobilized in a desperate effort to influence perception in a public relations coup.

Curious George said...

Fool? Sure. Whore, yep that too.

Drago said...

Titus: "#me too. i am now ready to tell my story."

Careful.

Those kinds of stories cause ARM to blame you.

rcocean said...

So, she was glad to commit adultery?

Leftists, they really are "different".

buwaya said...

#me too

I have been the recipient of a great deal of female attention, when I was younger and rather more handsome.

It was, of course a terrible burden and caused no end of psychological damage I am still dealing with, as, sadly, they no longer flirt with me quite as much.

TreeJoe said...

In college, I happened to get placed in the dormitory my freshmen year that was probably 40-50% gay males. Later I learned it was the dorm known to be requested by gay men.

I was touched inappropriately on numerous occasions. On one occasion, I was thrown up against the wall, pressed there by a guy 50-80 pounds heavier than me, and grabbed/felt up.

Later in college I got drunk and fairly taken advantage of (not sex) by a very ugly woman. It was not consensual - I was damn near pass out drunk.

Making this type of behavior into a feminist issue is a mistake. It's an issue, period, of both sexual predators AND people who are hyper-sexual and think it's ok short of the other person screaming "Rape"

This is a social mores issue. This is an issue of boundaries, of acceptable behavior in public and private, and or what you do when you witness someone else doing something outside of those mores and how supported you expect to be societally when you report an unacceptable behavior to others.



MayBee said...

Today's stupidity was CBS referring to everyone writing "#MeToo" as survivors. Come on. I mean it's all pretty much just life, isn't it?
If you want to fill Facebook with it, come up with some plan about what to do. My suggestion: speak up if something happens that you can't live with.

Freeman Hunt said...

Yeah, a married guy who chases after young women is safe--who thinks this way?

Ignorance is Bliss said...

Then I think about a couple of consensual experiences with men... I’m great! Or at least pretty great, right?... Also, by the way, they were married...

No, you are not great, nor good, nor even mediocre. You are amoral pond-scum for knowingly fucking married men.

The men are worse, for cheating on their wives. But you are doing just as the men to undermine the foundations of civilization.

rcocean said...

We *should* be talking about how Hollywood and the MSM covered up and ignored Harvey weinsteins' sexual assaults for 20 years.

But the Left controls the microphone, so now we're in "look squirrel" territory.

n.n said...

So, do women have free will or not?

Not according to the twilight faithful. Progressive liberal ideology presents women as conceiving (autonomic) then choosing (conscious), rather than choosing then conceiving. While men are masters of their universe, women are merely victims of fate, floating and bobbing with temporal, spatial, and masculine waves.

Eleanor said...

Women are often willing participants. They want power, too, and having sex with a powerful man is a short-cut they're willing to take. It's hard sometimes to sort out what's a bargain made between two consenting adults and what's sexual harassment. The women who pay to play and don't get what's promised are hard to separate from the ones who were unwilling. The women who are unwilling, but who benefit from the sexual encounter, have the biggest dilemma.

MayBee said...

You girls gotta grow up. We boys are not all rapists and harassers. You make us stop listening when you keep claiming we all are.

Exactly, Bob Ellison.

madAsHell said...

The torrent of #MeToo stories

I remember when the Betty Ford Clinic first opened. All the glitterati declared themselves insufferable alcoholics, and checked-in for a couple of weeks. It was free publicity.

readering said...

Althouse badly misread that article. And the commenters? They didn't read it period

Drago said...

The left is busy transferring democrat/lefty guilt to "all men", similar to how the dems magically transmogrified all long dead post-civil war democrats, KKK democrats, jim crow era democrats into modern day (literally today) living republicans.

Who can forget how Clintons actions in the white house led all the media types to immediately launch into mad dashes to bring down the reputations of every single former President?

This pattern is old and worn out, like every single lefty talking point. But only every single one.

Ignorance is Bliss said...

#MeToo. Yeah, I'm a guy. So what? Does that make it any less a sexual assault when some guy I don't know grabs my butt?

AJ Lynch said...

I think some of these women are lying - they feel unattractive that a "Harvey" never tried anything on them so they are making shit up to compensate. Joan Walsh is Exhibit 1.

Michelle Dulak Thomson said...

I see I'm too late, as two people have already beaten me to it, but "felt" is past tense, so she's relating what she was thinking back then, not what she thinks now.

David said...

They would be complaining about how men pay no attention to them.

rehajm said...

Such a disjointed story reads like something crafted from the major exploits teased out of piles of data from female focus groups. This is a top down marketing exploit to mobilize women, probably originating from that ad agency in Vancouver that gave us #Occupy or some such. It's Occupy for Chicks.

Drago said...

readering: "Althouse badly misread that article. And the commenters? They didn't read it period"

Of course we did. Unlike snowflake leftists, reading things that we don't agree with is not triggering at all.

In fact, Walsh used pretty much the entire article to transfer the discussion to Trump and all men, but mostly Trump, and all men.

Dem men, Hollywood (other than a fleeting reference to Weinstein), make nary an appearance.

Apparently you can't refute the points being made here so you, like Walsh, attempt to make the conversation about something else.

How..utterly...predictable.

n.n said...

psychological damage I am still dealing with, as, sadly, they no longer flirt with me quite as much

It's the stuff from which a midlife crisis progresses.

How do you cope? An exotic sports car? Some shiny accouterments to enhance the color and form of your corporal visage? Perhaps a new or like-new woman/women to adorn your aging side.

Bob Ellison said...

I'm a sexually attractive Thelian Mogbord, but have never been "felt up". That may be because Mogbord sex requires four interactives. Maybe that's why the species is dying out.

Gahrie said...

This is an issue of boundaries, of acceptable behavior in public and private, and or what you do when you witness someone else doing something outside of those mores and how supported you expect to be societally when you report an unacceptable behavior to others.

The Left has spent the last sixty years attacking and destroying boundaries and mores.

Etienne said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
rehajm said...

They want power, too, and having sex with a powerful man is a short-cut they're willing to take...

For some it leads to a dead end. But she probably didn't have to do the sex part.

n.n said...

destroying boundaries and mores

Judge people by the "color of their skin" (e.g. sex diversity), rather than the "content of their character" (e.g. principles).

Destroying God, faith, religion, and tradition, and their moral vestments.

Kevin said...

The left is trying to distract from the fact that the problem in Hollywood is largely caused by the sex-saturated and immoral culture pimped by the entertainment industry 24/7.

Yes, we are shifting focus from the perpetrators and those covering for them to the victims and their stories.

The left is much more comfortable with victimhood than doing the harder work to actually change the environment. Pretty soon it won't be Harvey, but some other unnamed guy in Hollywood. And then some other unnamed guy not in Hollywood. And then just a bunch of unnamed guys who may or may not live in a town near you.

Eventually, Harvey doesn't even seem so bad. He's just a normal guy who in the normal course of events keeps women down. The problem isn't a specific individual or a specific act, but all men in all situations.

That's how this continues on. That is how it never ends. That his how victimhood becomes ones true calling.

mccullough said...

She doesn't mention "Bill
Clinton." She was sure after the Access Hollywood tape was released that Trump wouldn't be elected. Two words: Bill Clinton. These hacks have been protecting him forever. And don't think people aren't keeping score. Nothing will change until that is corrected.

Michael K said...

I see Althouse deleted my comment.

See you.

buwaya said...

"It's the stuff from which a midlife crisis progresses."

Is joke comrade.

David said...

"Because despite living in Neanderthal Texas for 25 years, no one has ever so much as pinched me."

I have two adult daughters and three adult stepdaughters. They do not live in convents. Two are married, one divorced and single, one in a relationship that will likely lead to marriage and one single and never married. Present ages early 30's to mid 40's. They did not marry young. They have never been subject to repeated or even episodic male abuse, except for the occasional unwelcome and easily deflected attentions of college boys. (One was pursued ardently by Christian Laetner, the basketball star. She was not interested in him. It got to be a joke.)

I think their secret is (1) choosing who they associate with and where they go with reasonable discretion, (2) not flirting with creeps, (3) staying sober and (4) knowing how to say no firmly and politely.

pacwest said...

"In none of these instances was I chasing a job," "I would eventually learn ..... no professional benefit either. And again I felt like: I am a fucking fool."

So she wasn't after a job, just a professional benefit. Not at all like those other sluts.

It's just the price we are haggling over now Joan. And the descriptor is not "fool". Well, maybe one of them anyway.

I might have given a different interpretation after reading, but, Joan Walsh.

Sydney said...

I started noticing those #metoo posts in my Facebook feed yesterday. I'm 55 years old and have worked in a male dominated profession (or at least it used to be) all of my adult life. I've never been subject to sexual harassment.

Kevin said...

If the result of the #metoo campaign is the vast majority of women are revealed not to have been harassed but to have tried to have relationships with men to advance their careers albeit unsuccessfully, that might actually be a good thing.

If this were pointed out to the women by other women, it would be even better.

Jim at said...

"Althouse badly misread that article. And the commenters? They didn't read it period."

Why of course. It's everybody ELSE who's wrong.

Kevin said...

Can men use the #metoo to discuss how they were sexually harassed by women at work?

Or does the victimhood hierarchy preclude it?

Amadeus 48 said...

Joan Walsh does not understand herself very well. She wanted a relationship--a special relationship--with a person who was obviously not above breaking vows of fidelity. What in heaven's name was she thinking? A little leg up for her was a little leg over for him. The fact is that he was being human and she was being human, but if she was expecting more, the odds were poor. But it is an old, old story.

Althouse, back when you had that job reading women's magazines, how may had an agony aunt column? Did any of those advisers suggest that this was a good plan? Maybe Helen Gurley Brown held out hope that an office affair would lead to something good, or that the experience gained was worth the heartbreak, but who would believe that superannuated, simpering schoolgirl?

As Dr Laura used to say, "What did you think was going to happen?"

Rabel said...

"I’m fifty-fucking-nine, and creepy old men with wives and daughters and granddaughters and a lot of power, and even the occasional younger powerful man, still try to get me in bed, for the wrong reasons (from my point of view, if it matters)."

This certainly adds a few new wrinkles to Joan's story. Fortunately the advent of high quality cell phone cameras has given us a clearer insight into Joan's Point of View.

Poor lady. Once you get a reputation for giving great head you never live it down. It must be hard to swallow these indignities at her age.

Ralph L said...

This is starting to sound like the college post-drunk-sex rape accusations.

n.n said...

Less Planning. More Living. But, only if women choose, then conceive.

Jim at said...

This #metoo crap is just another chapter in one of the worst things about the advent of social media: Virtue signaling.

It's incessant.
It's tedious.
Most of all, it's exhausting.

#metoo?
#ignore

n.n said...

Is joke comrade.

I'm laughing with you, not at you.

Etienne said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
PB said...

The left certainly has strayed from the sexual freedom of yesterday.

Sydney said...

Anyone else tempted to post #notme on social media?

Bay Area Guy said...

Ok, a personal observation.

I've been married and off the dating market for 25 years. So, perhaps I am old and fucking clueless.

But, before marriage, in my 20s, before internet, before cell phones, here's how it worked:

1. You met, talked to, flirted, and mingled with girls. You were nice to them. Sometimes at work. Sometimes at bars/clubs. Sometimes in your apartment complex. Often, your buddies had girlfriends, who had sisters or other girl-friends who wanted to go out.

2. So, if you had, say, 5 male friends, and 2 had steady girlfriends at any particular time, said girlfriends would size you up, and then set you up. You were given the green light to ask a gal out on a real date, and expected to do so. And, you were expected to know HOW to execute on a date (hair combed, car washed, clothes ironed, nice restaurant, nice movie, you pay).

3. And, if you enjoyed each other's company, you were expected to call again for another date. If you hit it off real good, they slept with you that date, or, perhaps, date number 2 or 3. Some had high batting averages, some did not.

4. There were no Hugh Heffners, no Harvey Weinsteins, no Anthony Weiners -- just a bevy of attractive girls, mostly starting professional jobs post-college, perhaps thinking of marriage, perhaps not.

5. There was little or no sexual harassment, sexual assault, drunken orgies. There was dating pretty girls. There were romantic dramas. Is she the right one? What do I do, if my ex-girlfriend calls again? Do I dump her, and try for her roommate? etc, etc.

6. It worked out just fine for me, my friends, my siblings, and everyone I knew. All of my circle had girlfriends, and eventually paired off to marry, have kids, etc, etc. Boring middle-class Republicans, right?

So, what has happened over these past 25 years? Tinder, cell phones, Snapchat, sexual harassment, crummy movies, crummy relations between the sexes, epic obesity and all sorts of other maladies.

I take BART in SF, and would opine that 90% of the riders are unattractive, slovenly dressed, overweight, tired, exhausted young people. But they have tatooes, nose-rings and Iphones. Yay!

So, my advice is to go back to dating. Guys, Learn how to ask girls out on dates. Girls, learn how to get guys to ask you out on dates, and learn how to say yes (to dates, not necessarily other things).

This wasn't too hard back then. It seems to be a major challenge today.

It would simplify this madness.

There's a huge swath of nice guys & gals, who aren't predators or prey, who don't have any power imbalances, who should be out there having fun and coupling up.

My 2 cents.


Sebastian said...

"What Would Women Be Doing if We Weren’t Constantly Dealing With Male Abuse?" They'd be building great companies, making superb movies, inventing new technologies, discovering undiscovered truths.

"The torrent of #MeToo stories reveals just how much time we spend dealing with this shit," Correct. If this is the evidence to go by, women prefer to sulk and whine rather than to create and compete.

@Bob: "You girls gotta grow up. We boys are not all rapists and harassers." You are right, of course, but also wrong. As predicted, days ago!, the left is deflecting by escalating, hence the "all men" meme. The gotta grow up response is therefore beside the point: the right not to "grow up," to indulge in the specialness of women and their victimhood, for the sake of equality, of course, is the very point of the current prog counteroffensive.

But the Bobs of the world getting pissed off does pose a risk to the prog strategy.

Amadeus 48 said...

By the way, Joan Walsh must be referring to Ted Kennedy and Bill Clinton, right? In the '90s she was probably pretty dishy (or at least up to Ted and Bill's standards, such as they were).

robother said...

"I am a fucking fool" = rape. As every college boy knows (or should know).

hombre said...

The quoted paragraphs reflects what I've seen over the years. People engaging in consensual sex with differing expectations. Rape exists and ought not to, but this "me too" bullshit precipitated by Hollywood soft core porn queens - give me a break. The casting couch didn't originate with Harvey. If he wasn't so gross, nobody would be buying in.

Time for Harvey to offer the list: Who were they? What did they ask for? What did they offer in return?

If it is true that Gwyneth, Judd and Angelina turned him down, they stand as evidence that rejecting Harvey didn't kill careers.

Freeman Hunt said...

"What Would Women Be Doing if We Weren’t Constantly Dealing With Male Abuse?"

Is the answer supposed to be, "Having affairs with married men while getting ahead in one's career?" (That is what the author was hoping for before her hopes were dashed.) Hey, I thought that was one of the problematic things happening now!

Michelle Dulak Thomson said...

Chuck,

Unaccountably missed this, but I don't know what's behind anyone mocking Pence for his not-dining-alone-with-a-woman-not-my-wife stance except pure bigotry and spite. To me it seems common sense. I wouldn't dine alone with a man not my husband. Am I to be added to the Basket of Deplorables now? As though I weren't already in it.

In practice, Pence's rule applies only to conditions that aren't present, because any meeting he has with a female employee or co-worker will have at least a third staffer on it. That's how things work in DC. In Hollywood, not so much -- HW's female staffer always seems to have another meeting about ten minutes in.

What's the other one? Oh, yes, not to drink alcohol at a party unless his wife is present. You know, that too seems very sensible. In fact, so far almost everything I have heard from Pence seems sensible.

furious_a said...

(1) choosing who they associate with and where they go with reasonable discretion, (2) not flirting with creeps, (3) staying sober and (4) knowing how to say no firmly and politely.

Thank you for this. (1)especially the latter condition and (3) facilitate (2) and (4).

Laura said...

"And sometimes I feel invisible. I like invisible--even though fat, ugly, bald, badly dressed men my age with terrible breath and dandruff run the world, while I've opted for self-employment and working at home."

Handsome, well dressed men with good breath are granted automatic consent? Thought the problem was men's abusive behavior.

"Later we completed the due diligence we'd cut short, and learned this was his MO with women at other companies."

Due diligence, it's not just for men.

mikeski said...

Freeman Hunt said...
Yeah, a married guy who chases after young women is safe--who thinks this way?


At minimum, enough young women think this way to keep the tactic on the table for disloyal married men.

If the population of creeps is equal to (or smaller than) the population of As-Good-As-It-Gets-written women...

Laura said...

Reading the article doesn't make the author's arguments any better.

madAsHell said...

What Would Women Be Doing if We Weren’t Constantly Dealing With Male Abuse?

Makin' me a sammich!!

Joanne Jacobs said...

Nearly all women have been subject to unwanted sexual attention at some point. Some have fended off co-workers or bosses, while others have said "yes" against their better judgment. Few have been sexually assaulted.

Gospace said...

I like to think about what males could accomplish if they were freed from the constant threat of being accused of sexual harassment. I'm a survivor of 4 such accusations, all of which ended up unproven because of the simple fact they weren't true. And I let it be known right from the beginning there would be no apology from me because there might have been some sort of misunderstanding- because there wasn't any misunderstanding, the accusations were false. But where it actually exists, like Hollywood or with Bill Clinton, Teddy Kennedy, and Chris Dodd, all Democrats, it's excused, because they're "good" on women's issues, even though they leave them to drown after crashing the car they're in.

And then there's the fluid definition, where there is no actual definition, but the accuser determines if harassment took place. Joe Cool asks the hottie out, it's not harassment, she says yes and jumps into bed. Joe average asks the hottie out- It's disgusting he thinks he can do that, I'm being harassed. Either both are harassment, or neither is. That's a standard. There is no standard.

mockturtle said...

Ann, by featuring women who are self-identified victims you are doing much damage to women's image, IMO. We aren't all a bunch of whining toddlers blaming others for our own stupidity.

Otto said...

This whole fiasco shows how weak women are and that feminism is a fraud. A fat little slob got you on your knees. Also a lot of this me too ism borders on a lot of whoring going on. The 60s replaced something with shit." I am woman hear me plea"

Laura said...

"I'm a survivor of 4 such accusations, all of which ended up unproven because of the simple fact they weren't true."

But, but, but providing evidence for the authorities is humiliation! (And due diligence.)

EDH said...

Sounds like Joan Walsh was combining "feminism" with the "take to your knees" protest movement with gusto before it was cool.

readering said...

She didn't write that she was looking to date the guy. Geez.

HoodlumDoodlum said...

Ann Althouse said...l.That sounds like she accepted a date and wanted a relationship (and even liked that the guy was an adulterer). Let's not mush everything together! This #MeToo stuff could get really stupid. At least she announces I am a fucking fool. I know, she means back then. But she's using the present tense.

*Mansplaining voice:* but you see dear Professor, there was a power imbalance. When there's a power imbalance women can't really consent, so the fact that she appeared to consent and to only revoke that consent/find her own actions distasteful after the fact is irrelevant. She regrets it now, so it was sexual assault then.
Two consenting adults can't really engage in legal relations if one of them is much more powerful. Just as a crazy example if one was the President of the US and one was a young intern....wait, no, that's a GOOD example of adult consent. Crap, I've lost my place--does anyone have fresh Lefty feminist talking points I can borrow? Mine are out of date.

TomHynes said...

"And no professional benefit either". i was a whore, but I got stiffed.

I Have Misplaced My Pants said...

Bullshit. Women are not constantly dealing with male abuse. Anyone who thinks so is delusional.

Thank you.

HoodlumDoodlum said...

Gospace said...And then there's the fluid definition, where there is no actual definition, but the accuser determines if harassment took place. Joe Cool asks the hottie out, it's not harassment, she says yes and jumps into bed. Joe average asks the hottie out- It's disgusting he thinks he can do that, I'm being harassed. Either both are harassment, or neither is. That's a standard. There is no standard.

Gospace, duh. FEELINGS. In the first case the woman FEELS good about the interaction. In the second case the woman obviously FEELS bad about the interaction--she's creeped out and inuslted, and the man's action caused those FEELINGS, therefore the man is guilty.

It really couldn't be more plain.

Oh, your objection is that the man can't predict ex ante how his interaction will make a given woman FEEL? Hey, that's his problem--just because it's a foundational fucking concept of the rule of law that a given code must provide predictability--so that a person knows what behavior is and is not permitted before engaging in it, etc--doesn't mean anything when we're talking about FEELINGS.

Don't forget: failure to interact with women is also a punishable offense--if you just steer clear of 'em in order to be safe that's discriminatory, too. 'Cause, naturally, they'll FEEL like you're only friendly with guys and are therefore denying them opportunities to network and socialize.

Good luck!

walter said...

"I confidently spent time alone with them, believing they were interested in my mind and my work."

Wait..after being flattered by the "come-on"?

Daniel Jackson said...

The logic here escapes me. This is not a unidirectional problem--it is not only women who have to endure sexual advances from men. Everyone has to endure sexual/aggressive advances from everyone. It's a fact of life.

For every Harvey Weinstein, there is a Sue Mengers who was out front with what she demanded from her male clients.

Turn Joan's stories around looking at them from the other direction. A guy, successful at his job, is suddenly finding some woman constantly seeking him out, in public and private, with considerable interest in his game. This is like Brittany Spears singing, "Oops!" Or, Sting singing, "Don't stand so close to me" referencing Nabokov.

I could not get past the picture in the linked article. Just more bullshit from some angry women.

Anyway, Harvey will be back in full swing if only because of the Wiener Factor.

tcrosse said...

Phoebe Snow and Linda Ronstadt weigh in, courtesy of the Roche Sisters:
The Married Man

Michael K said...

Blogger Joanne Jacobs said...
Nearly all women have been subject to unwanted sexual attention at some point. Some have fended off co-workers or bosses, while others have said "yes" against their better judgment. Few have been sexually assaulted.


Yes, but that is not the whole story.

Back when my partner was divorced, a certain recovery room nurse was unusually nasty to us. I couldn't figure out what the problem was.

That was in a earlier era when doctors and nurses had more casual relationships but I could not understand why she was mad at us.

He told me one day, "She just wants me to fuck her." About two weeks later, she was friendly again.

Nonverbal communication, I guess.

Roughcoat said...

Women sense my power and they seek my life essence. I do not avoid women. But I do deny them my essence.

tcrosse said...

Anyway, Harvey will be back in full swing if only because of the Wiener Factor.

Full swing! LOL !

walter said...

Skidmore can relate. She was really distracted in her texting while waiting for Harvey to finish jerking off. A real drag on productivity.

rhhardin said...

Look, we're in an important moment, when women can come together and support other women. Don't mess it up with bullshit like this.

One size doesn't fit every woman's hot-button, even among the hot-button types.

TBlakely said...

On the one hand, we've heard for decades that women are smarter, tougher and more competent than men. On the other hand, we've heard for forever that women are delicate flowers who need protection from male predators. So which is it?

vanderleun said...

" Look, we're in an important moment, when women can come together and support other women. Don't mess it up with bullshit like this."

I regret to inform our hostess with the mostess that 90% of what you gurls say about this stuff is pure bullshit. They know it and we know it but we are trying to be polite.

Gahrie said...

Look, we're in an important moment, when women can come together and support other women.

Not only are you completely clueless when it comes to men...you apparently don't even understand women.......

rhhardin said...

Thruber's cartoon series "The War between Men and Women" is really great. Doesn't seem to be online, for some reason. It's in the Thurber Carnival among other collections.

It starts with The Overt Act, a guy at a formal party throwing a drink in a woman's face.

2. The battle on the stairs
3. The fight in the grocery
4. Men's G.H.Q.
5. Womoen's G.H.Q
6. Capture of three physics professors
7. Surrender of three blondes
8. The battle of Labrador
9. The spy
10. Mrs. Prichard's leap
11. Zero hour - Connecticut
12. The sniper
13. Parley
14. Gettysburg
15. Retreat
16. Rout
17. Surrender

Just to anticipate the moments coming up.

Gahrie said...

She didn't write that she was looking to date the guy. Geez.

Correct. She was only interested in sleeping with him as a way to advance her career....

Jack Sherman said...

Also, by the way, they were married, so it was safe, right?

That's quite a moral compass you have there hon.

Fernandinande said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
jr565 said...

So she engaged in consensual relationships that didn’t work out, but which she didn’t turn down,and actively participated in. And that’s the equivalent of a rape and/or sexual assault?
If harvey Weinstein expressed interest in women the way her lovers did, would we even be discussing this right now? She doesn’t mention where the guys came over and forced her into a bathroom while he masturbsted by the door which she cowered in disgust and fear.
This is more of an instance of .”do you want to?” “Why yes, that would be nice”
Consensual behavior is not suddenly rape if the guy turns out to no be into a serious relationship.

Fernandinande said...

"What Would Women Be Doing if We Weren’t Constantly Dealing With Male Abuse?"

You're not constantly dealing with male abuse, you're dealing with your own hysteria.

Did you know? Weinstein's antics were really pretty damned trivial, especially considering they took place other 30 years: These delicate snowflakes are laughable.

MaxedOutMama said...

Gee, what a surprise. The married man you are sleeping with is a no-good user?

No one could have seen that coming????? What on earth?

Daniel Jackson said...

I'll see your Phoebe Snow and Linda Ronstadt with Pink Floyd's Young Lust (or, Dirty Woman): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08VpCVhdcbM

It take two to tangle.

Gahrie said...

Consensual behavior is not suddenly rape if the guy turns out to no be into a serious relationship.

Well....it never used to be........

Kazinski said...

Hey ladies, pick me.

I'm "safe".

Patrick Henry was right! said...

Aren't these the same people who eulogized Hugh Hefner as if he had done a great service for human kind?

Who was Harvey Winestein following if not Hugh Hefner. And Roman Polanski, of course.

autothreads said...

It seems that many women like to retroactively blame someone else for their own bad decisions. It's not her fault that she slept with a creep.

When we were arguing once, my ex accused me of "marital rape". I asked her, "Did I use force?", "No." "Did I coerce you, threaten you financially?", "No." "It wasn't gallant, but whining, pleading, and browbeating you into a blowjob isn't rape."

Gahrie said...

Consensual behavior is not suddenly rape if the guy turns out to no(t) be into a serious relationship.

It's worse than that. According to Althouse it can be consensual sex within a serious relationship, but if she's not really into it, and just having sex to please you, it's rape.

Ralph L said...

Walsh doesn't actually say she slept with the married men who showed interest in her.
Don't take "I'm a fucking fool!" literally.
Parse, people!

Gahrie said...

"It wasn't gallant, but whining, pleading, and browbeating you into a blowjob isn't rape."

Well..the browbeating probably was......

Dude1394 said...

The entire "sexual harassment and assault" is in desperate need of some definite definition.

This is beginning to sound like the college survey where 25% of women were sexually assaulted. What did that mean? Raped, kissed unwillingly/confusedly, arm around the waist.

We are talking some serious charges here, you can't just say I was sexually assaulted because he kissed me goodnight and I didn't want him to.

I'm trying to work up a good mad on this and it should be easy, but the phrasing is starting to sound like politics, in other words, pushing an agenda and not the honest truth.

Steven said...

"What Would Women Be Doing if We Weren’t Constantly Dealing With Male Abuse?"

You'd use the time and energy to increase your levels of mutual backstabbing, gossiping, slighting, insulting, et cetera.

Pookie Number 2 said...

Look, we're in an important moment, when women can come together and support other women.

If I understand correctly, we've already had millions of moments when women could have come together and support other women, but they decided that the cost (criticizing a Democrat) was too high.

Laslo Spatula said...

It is like those people years ago that were raping children for Satan.

Not everyone is raping children for Satan.

I am Laslo.

Ray said...

Confusing times - and I agree with the Mike Pence rule for avoiding misunderstandings... Even as a married Man, I get paranoid being alone with a non related Female. I just don't need the potential issues. Misunderstandings happen, and why chance it? I view the current system for men, as your guilty until proven innocent.

The US Society in some ways is becoming more Victorian, and yet at the same time more Libertine.

Some observations:

- Men and Women both cheat in marriages.
- Many people in the US avoid marriages, especially in lower income groups.
- People who are not married are more likely to break up.
- Much of Feminism thought seems to be anti man. The Other McCain wrote a book on this and I read some of his blog posts that were eye opening.
- Women initiate more divorces than Men.
- Some Women do lie about rapes.
- Some Women have been convicted of under age misconduct. Instapundit likes to point this out. Women usually get lighter sentences than men.
- Sexting by teens is wide spread, yet can lead to being convicted as a sex offender with a life time term.
- Women are going to colleges at higher rates then men.
- Regret sex accusations that become rape, do happen.
- Sexual harassment happens.
- Some Women sleep their way to the top.
- Some Women seem to be attracted to powerful Men.

FIDO said...

Yeah, a married guy who chases after young women is safe--who thinks this way?

A thoughtful young woman who is worried about power disparities. His marriage gives her some leverage to at least quite the affair with fewer repercussions.

Tari said...

Sydney at 4:52: yes, all freaking day.

The Vault Dweller said...

Some of this has got to be Caveat Emptor. If women have their own agency, and are capable of making decisions about their sexuality then the burden is on them to understand that some guys are going to try to sleep with them. Now I'm not talking about some sort of coercive decision where it is starkly presented to a woman that her career advancement is linked to a sexual relationship, but if a guy who is your superior asks you to dinner or drinks to talk about non-specific 'work' issues you need to have a head on your shoulders.

Big Mike said...

Back before I retired I mentored young engineers of both genders. But when I met with a young woman I was careful to leave the door open or to meet in the "fishbowl" conference room over in the corner that was mostly glass. If I was meeting with a female protege and the door was closed, then the meeting was by phone. Only once did I meet with a protege for dinner (and no other dinner attendees) and that was after we'd worked together for years and we were more like colleagues more than mentor-protege.

tcrosse said...

Look, we're in an important moment, when women can come together and support other women.

Oh, Please. Excuse me, Professoressa Emerita, with respect, but it's possible that those of use who are married to women, or have sisters, know a thing or two about women that those who actually are women don't.

Bay Area Guy said...

Advice to college women:

- Don't get shitfaced drunk off wine-coolers at Frat parties. You may lose inhibitions and meet up with unsavory characters.

Advice to college men

- Stay the fuck away from leftist women, any future Joan Walsh-types, any and all Sandra Fluke-types, any and all Lena Dunham-types, even if they are good-looking. You will thank me later.

Advice to young post-college women:

-be receptive to nice guys, who work and treat you right. Brad Pitt and George Clooney are fantasies.

Advice to young post-college men:

- Learn to invite girls on dates (dinner, movie, lunch, beach, hikes, picnics). Learn to make them laugh. Good things will ensue.

walter said...

I think Althouse is directing that comment at Walsh.

The Vault Dweller said...

but it's possible that those of use who are married to women, or have sisters, know a thing or two about women that those who actually are women don't.

Yes some of this is definitely equivalent to men complaining when that smoking hot chick they go after ends up being narcissistic and shallow. It is just that women will be more susceptible to the guy with power who ends up being a creep. Both sexes get blinded in different ways.

Ray said...

McMartin preschool to me showed why you never want a business that deals with children. And why you probably don't want to be a K-12 teacher if your male. All you need is one crazy parent or student, and it can ruin your life. And now with this gender fluid stuff, definitely good to stay out of.

Ray Buckley spent 5 years in jail without being convicted! McMartin was in LA.

The one that was worse was in MA, where the guy, Gerald Amirault, spent 18 years in jail. Coakely was involved.

And with sexual harassment accusations, men are basically guilty until proven innocent. The amazon guy looks guilty, but what if he was not? He lost his job and marriage was called off, and his career is in tatters. And this is without a conviction. I don't know what the proper balance is for fairness. This is about reputation, and how do you protect that except by doing the Mike Pence rule if your male.

Supposedly, sport figures that have liaisons, cough, cough, now have a 2nd person there to witness to avoid what happened to Kobe.

Freeman Hunt said...

"I started noticing those #metoo posts in my Facebook feed yesterday. I'm 55 years old and have worked in a male dominated profession (or at least it used to be) all of my adult life. I've never been subject to sexual harassment."

I thought it started as a thing about sexual assault, but then it seemed to absorb other things.

mockturtle said...

Learn to make them laugh. Good things will ensue.

Good advice, Bay Area Guy. Wit and humor are valuable assets for a man. Far more valuable than looks. Although my husband had both wit and looks, it was his wit that made me fall for him.

gg6 said...

"a married guy who chases after young women is safe--who thinks this way? Absolutely no one."
To be blindingly clear, she obviously meant "safe" for the WOMAN, yes???.....
And, well, what do I know after years of 'office world', 'urban/suburban world' etc but, yes I THINK LOTS OF WOMEN THINK EXACTLY THAT. They think an affair w/ a married guy is 'safe' because he wants 'problems' in his square, proper little Life even LESS than the woman (esp. a single woman)wants any problems (actually, she might even get a post-coitus thrill out of the fallout) - many 'single women' want 'excitement' and this married guy is it! Not to mention it gives HER some of that awesome "leverage' and 'intimidation' power' the Woman's movement always rages on about..."Do me bad, pal, and I'll put an end your happy little Life, career, wife and kids!"
To 'married women' its also "safe" if they are interested NOT in burning down their own life, but only some diversion and excitement and lost 'romance.
Unlike in Sicko Hollywood, the 'business world' has become almost a feminist Heaven in gender/sexual legal matters (I can hear the outraged feedback even as I write!) - you're female and laid-off (no pun intended) or fired?..... sue the bastards and you will get at least something out of it a male would not. Had a nice affair with the Boss but pissed at the way HE abruptly dumped you? Sue the corporation's ass...you will get an easy 'settlement' offer as a minimum. And think of all the Admiration and Respect you'll get from your Facebook Feministas!
The working-world 'gender culture' is a mess.

MadisonMan said...

re #notme -- rather than posting that, just find the gif from the Family Circus cartoon. NotMe shows up every now and then when the kids are asked who did some dastardly deed.

mockturtle said...

Sensible women have known throughout history how to deflect unwanted advances, at least up to now, when they have become strangely helpless in the face of a suggestive comment or leering glance.

Freeman Hunt said...

This woman specifically wanted career help and a relationship. Who would think a married, older man chasing young women would be a safe bet in those regards? Ridiculous.

Bad Lieutenant said...

https://uncouthreflections.com/2016/05/08/an-interesting-lesson-in-female-psychology/

Uncouth Reflections
An Interesting Lesson in Female Psychology

Fabrizio del Wrongo writes:



Kerim forked up a strip of fish and tore at it with his teeth. He drank down a half a tumbler of raki. He lit a cigarette and sat back in his chair. ‘Well,’ he said with a sour grin, ‘we might as well talk about me as about anything else. And you must be wondering “How did this big crazy man get into the Service?” I will tell you, but briefly, because it is a long story. You will stop me if you get bored. All right?’

‘Fine.’ Bond lit a Diplomate. He leant forward on his elbows.

‘I come from Trebizond.’ Kerim watched his cigarette smoke curl upwards. ‘We were a huge family with many mothers. My father was the sort of man women can’t resist. All women want to be swept off their feet. In their dreams they long to be slung over a man’s shoulder and taken into a cave and raped. That was his way with them. My father was a great fisherman and his fame was spread all over the Black Sea. He went after the sword-fish. They are difficult to catch and hard to fight and he would always outdo all others after these fish. Women like their men to be heroes. He was a kind of hero in a corner of Turkey where it is a tradition for the men to be tough. He was a big, romantic sort of fellow. So he could have any woman he wanted. He wanted them all and sometimes killed other men to get them. Naturally he had many children. We all lived on top of each other in a great rambling old ruin of a house that our “aunts” made habitable. The aunts really amounted to a harem. One of them was an English governess from Istanbul my father had seen watching a circus. He took a fancy to her and she to him and that evening he put her on board his fishing boat and sailed up the Bosphorus and back to Trebizond. I don’t think she ever regretted it. I think she forgot all the world except him. She died just after the war. She was sixty. The child before me had been by an Italian girl and the girl had called him Bianco. He was fair. I was dark. I got to be called Darko. There were fifteen of us children and we had a wonderful childhood. Our aunts fought often and so did we. It was like a gipsy encampment. It was held together by my father who thrashed us, women or children, when we were a nuisance. But he was good to us when we were peaceful and obedient. You cannot understand such a family?’

‘The way you describe it I can.’
...

Bad Lieutenant said...

...


‘Anyway so it was. I grew up to be nearly as big a man as my father, but better educated. My mother saw to that. My father only taught us to be clean and to go to the lavatory once a day and never to feel shame about anything in the world. My mother also taught me a regard for England, but that is by the way. By the time I was twenty, I had a boat of my own and I was making money. But I was wild. I left the big house and went to live in two small rooms on the waterfront. I wanted to have my women where my mother would not know. There was a stroke of bad luck. I had a little Bessarabia hell-cat. I had won her in a fight with some gipsies, here in the hills behind Istanbul. They came after me, but I got her on board the boat. I had to knock her unconscious first. She was still trying to kill me when we got back to Trebizond, so I got her to my place and took away all her clothes and kept her chained naked under the table. When I ate, I used to throw scraps to her under the table, like a dog. She had to learn who was master. Before that could happen, my mother did an unheard of thing. She visited my place without warning. She came to tell me that my father wanted to see me immediately. She found the girl. My mother was really angry with me for the first time in my life. Angry? She was beside herself. I was a cruel ne’er-do-well and she was ashamed to call me a son. The girl must immediately be taken back to her people. My mother brought her some of her own clothes from the house. The girl put them on, but when the time came, she refused to leave me.’ Darko Kerim laughed hugely. ‘An interesting lesson in female psychology, my dear friend.’
— Ian Fleming

Categories: Books Publishing and Writing, Sex
Tags: couldn't do it today, From Russia with Love, Ian Fleming, James Bond

Valentine Smith said...

Yes Joan, "everything you know in life is wrong." Every. Single. Thing.

FIDO said...

Just getting tired of female BS.

Chris N said...

Phony Baloney Joanie Walsh and the Sisterhood Of The Traveling Nehru Jacket.

My God, it’s empty inside....

Bad Lieutenant said...

I apologize profusely. The above was an article using a long quote verbatim from Ian Fleming's immortal From Russia with Love. I believe that was dated 1962, no, 1957 for the novel, movie 1963, with rapey-if-not-actually-a-rapist Sean Connery dominating the silver screen.

This verbiage and much of the novel was not in the film, but even as filmed this was blowing their minds back then, yeah, punk rock. JFK was a big fan.

richard mcenroe said...

So now that the women and the beta males have come out and #MeToo'd, when do Hollywood's gays MeToo the predators and exploiters in their midst?

exiledonmainstreet said...

So what do feminists propose to do about these awful men and the shit they have to put up with all the time? I can think of only 3 options:
1. make men act like women. how fun. Good luck with that.
2. Leave the workplace, or congregate in professions like teaching and beauty salon operation where there are few straight men. Back to the safe spaces of 1950, ladies!
3. drive men from the workspace. Oh yeah, that'll work especially in STEM fields. And we really want men sitting home drinking beer and watching porn all day while we work.

do the feminists understand where their arguments actually lead? If not, they're just sitting around whining and bitching.

Laslo Spatula said...

"...drinking beer and watching porn all day while we work."

If you are watching porn all day you are not using porn correctly.

I am Laslo.

The Vault Dweller said...

Laslo said...

If you are watching porn all day you are not using porn correctly.

Geez. Apparently you've never heard of edging. You're such a prude.

exiledonmainstreet said...

I defer to the expert.

pacwest said...

For a certainty there are still 'imbalances' in the roles of the two biological genders in society. Using sex shaming to correct these remaining imbalances is counterproductive judging by the responses I see.

Laslo Spatula said...

The Girl With Blue Hair Who Works at McDonald's...

Work is horrible lately. The rumor at the restaurant is that Kym on second-shift had sex with our manager Jon in his Corolla, and that is how she got moved to first shift like she had been wanting since, like, forever...

So now poor Ashley has been pushed back to second-shift, which totally fucks with her community-college schedule. Needless to say, all of this sucks...

Anyway, now it turns out that Jon gave Kym herpes in their hook-up, which she probably deserves. Still, it IS kind of fucked up: you sleep with the boss at a fucking McDonald's AND you get herpes? Really? Getting herpes to be a Hollywood Star: I get that. But to get first shift at McDonald's? That's a pretty big price to pay...

I hope the weird guy with the greasy hair who stares at me all the time doesn't come in today...

I am Laslo.

Valentine Smith said...

The Seduced One's Lament

One morning fair I took he air
Down by blackwater side
'twas gazing all around me
The Irish lad I spied

All through the fore part of the night
We lay in sport and play
Till this young man arose and gathered his clothes
Saying 'Fare thee well today

That's not the promise that you gave to me
When first you lay on my breast
You could make me believe with your lying tongue
That the sun rose in the West

Well then go home go home to your father's garden
Go home and weep your fill
And think on your own misfortune
That you've brought with your wanton will.

Whatever happened to old fashioned seduction?

Michael Johnson said...

I work in women's houses (I mill custom interiors.) Some of my friends had been approached by women in their professions for liassons. I mentioned to my wife that that had never happened to me (what am I, chopped liver?) and she said, "They know you're not available."

Guildofcannonballs said...

http://thingsimadethenate.blogspot.com/2017/10/buffalo-prime-rib-buckhorn-exchange.html

Just knock hate; appreciate.

Big Mike said...

By far the biggest problem for women in the workplace is that dhey won't work together if they don't like each other. Instead, they'll stab each other in the back and generally try to get the project leader to get rid of the designated "not in our clique" member. Men here are vastly different. I used to think that this was due to sports -- one doesn't have to like the quarterback to block for him (because if you won't block for him, the coach will find someone who will) nor does a shortstop have to like the second baseman to throw to him to start the double play. And if you're playing basketball and fail to pass to a wide open teammate because you don't like him, coach will talk to you, too. What I'm learning is that women really will let feeling about teammates get in the way of winning games, and this attitude carries over to business.

A second problem is that some women aren't very good at their jobs but cannot accept this. If they didn't complain about men keeping them down then they'd have to improve their work habits and actually meet goals they've signed up to.

And that leaves men. Yup, some of us aren't very good. But we aren't women's biggest problems. Not even close.

Bay Area Guy said...

@Mockturtle,

"Although my husband had both wit and looks, it was his wit that made me fall for him."

Very nice!

In my early 30's, on a Saturday morning, I learned that if I were to actually clean the bathroom, (25 mins of a good scrubbing), without being asked, i.e., on my own volition, before Bay Area Gal and the kids got up, Bay Gal would be so pleasantly surprised and titilated by my thoughtful and selfless act, that good things usually abounded that evening.

It's those little things in marriage.

The youngins today are just confused and clueless. I blame MTV, the public schools and Tipper Gore.

pacwest said...

Thanks Laslo.

Tarrou said...

To answer the question in the headline:

Complaining about the lack of male attention.

I Have Misplaced My Pants said...

Look, we're in an important moment, when women can come together and support other women. Don't mess it up with bullshit like this.

One size doesn't fit every woman's hot-button, even among the hot-button types.


Agree with hardin on this one. Women will never come together and support other women. I had to unload on some harpy griping on Facebook about other womens' "silence which must mean lack of support" for this whole absurd metoo nonsense. So it's not enough that I keep my trap shut, at some effort, about how fucking ridiculous the whole thing is, but now I'm going to be lectured for simply choosing not to participate? I told her words to the effect of "women have the right to decline to participate in a faddish social media campaign last I checked; some of them are victims and perhaps they simply do not want to discuss personal and traumatic events in that forum and the last damn thing they need is more judgement of how they process their own experiences. So you do what you want but don't be surprised if people tell you to get bent when you lecture them."

There is always, always, always a line of women telling other women what they should do. The whole lot of them should fuck off. (Right, Freeman?)

Bill said...

Joan Walsh, who is 59 years old, is still selling herself as a naive, innocent girl.

A delusion similar to that of Maureen Dowd, age 65, who regards herself as a 'chick'.

I Have Misplaced My Pants said...

(Evidently I also agree with Gahrie and vanderleun.)

FIDO said...

Samantha Banks wrote about her experiment in an 'all female workplace' to avoid the toxicity of males.

It did not end well...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1168182/Catfights-handbags-tears-toilets-When-producer-launched-women-TV-company-thought-shed-kissed-goodbye-conflict-.html

Tari said...

Pants said “There is always, always, always a line of women telling other women what they should do. The whole lot of them should fuck off.“

Oh can they please, for 5 minutes? I am very tired of being told to (1) think with my ovaries and (2) fall in line with the way all the other ovaries think. Those tactics just make me contrary and I stop listening, even when the group of ovaries has something intelligent to say.

Tom said...

At 18, my best friend was raped. This was a horrible experience and they’ve not really recovered. It led to toxic relationships that are almost as bad as the physical act of being raped. As a friend, it’s excruciating to be one of the few people who know - you see, this rape was never reported and the rapist is still free. There was no way this rape claim would have been believed - it just wasn’t socially acceptable to report something like this.

I hope one day my friend finds peace. He’s a good man.

walter said...

Bay Area Guy said...I learned that if I were to actually clean the bathroom, (25 mins of a good scrubbing), without being asked, i.e., on my own volition, before Bay Area Gal and the kids got up, Bay Gal would be so pleasantly surprised and titilated by my thoughtful and selfless act, that good things usually abounded that evening.
--
Apparently foreplay takes many forms. Maybe you should draft a script and submit it to whoever advertises Mr. Clean.

Jon Burack said...

I realize Ann wants this to be "an important moment," but I think she's kidding herself if she thinks it will be. What it will be is a frightful moment of fear for the hard-core feminist left which absolutely HAS to do what Joan Walsh does here - shift the talk from Harvey (and Bill Clinton, Weiner, Trump, O'Reilly, and all the othern famous and unknown little super predator males who get off on humiliating women and dominating them) to ALL MEN and especially to any and all defenses of manliness in its true sense. What is that true sense? It's a lot harder to see in the public sphere today. Here's a list off the top of my head: Cary Grant, Humphrey Bogart, Fred Astaire, Lou Gehrig, Clarke Gable, Harry Truman, Ike, Duke Ellington, Martin Luther King, Thurgood Marshall, etc., etc. Humphrey Bogart was a tough man's tough man in his day. He married Lauren Becall, as tough a lady as you could ask for. Along with Mae West. A true feminist. Becall and Bogart both knew what it means to be man. As for now, "Where have you gone, Joe DiMaggio."

CStanley said...

I found her article repellent in so many ways. The part that bothered me the most was her claims that women never would abuse power in this way.

First, women from the beginning of time have also abused the power of feminine sexuality, but of course it was done according to the traditional biological sexual roles.

Second, now that feminists have upended those roles, scarcely a week goes by without a report of a young female teacher molesting young male students.

walter said...

Ya know..it's hard to believe no one replaced Heidi Fleiss to provide a regulated stream of complicit pussy to Hollywood movers and shakers.
But maybe that would be too vanilla for ole Harv'...thrill of the chase and all..

walter said...

CStanley said...scarcely a week goes by without a report of a young female teacher molesting young male students.
--
Yep. Where's the hashtag for that?

mockturtle said...

Big Mike at 8:54: Good analogy [team sports]! Part of the problem is that most women tend to take things personally and the personal response supersedes the overall team goal.

walter said...

#tilfpower

Dr. Steve said...

I think there is also a larger goal to the flood of "#metoo"s from the left. The more women now that come out with "metoo", particularly when their stories are clearly just their own bad judgement, or immature handling of clearly not-rape male interest, the more "normal" Harvey Wallbanger, the Bills, the the rest of the many Hollywood and DNC abusers look. The many "metoo"s, especially the "I was traumatized for life because a lower ranked male dared to ask me out" variety, are actually being used to normalize Harvey and the rest of his crowd. To paraphrase - when everybody is horrible, no one is horrible... and this is a very standard propaganda technique from the socialist playbook.

walter said...

All this attention to Weinstein is bound to force Li'l Kim to fire some missiles to refocus respect for the Dong.

Krumhorn said...

I think that the first two comments to that article were these:

All men benefit while we crouch, curl and defend. All men. It is why they do it. It works.

And then this...

The men who don’t do it, benefit from the ones who do. The subjugation, objectification, and humiliation of women for just being women, benefits all men.

Well, THAT explains a lot!

- Krumhorn

Alec Rawls said...

She was disappointed that she didn't receive any professional benefit...

So she did it for the same reason the Hollywood actresses did: prostitution. When she didn't get paid, THAT is what made her feel like a fool.

At least Jennifer Lawrence got paid. Now she is the queen of the whorrer movie.

mockturtle said...

So she did it for the same reason the Hollywood actresses did: prostitution. When she didn't get paid, THAT is what made her feel like a fool.

IIRC, Gretchen Carlson only charged Ailes with harassment when her contract wasn't renewed.


walter said...

Art of the deal...

Yancey Ward said...

I wonder if Joan Walsh is suffering from dementia- that paragraph basically outs herself as looking for relationships with powerful but married men. I am not quite sure she thought this disclosure through.

n.n said...

when women can come together and support other women

Ah, class diversity, specifically sex diversity. So, it will be separate and "=".

I prefer equal and complementary, judge people by the "content of their character", but that seems to be an unviable goal in a Progressive climate.

n.n said...

I wonder if Joan Walsh is suffering from dementia

Dementia, possibly. It may also be a mild form of sadism that motivates disruption of other women's relationships and family. This socially liberal behavior speaks poorly of men, and worse of the women. Perhaps a political congruence ("=") that is not judgmental and selectively excludes politically unprofitable orientations, including polygamy or personal corporations, could be a solution, where each officer and investor has voting rights in a "family".

Professional lady said...

I've worked in a traditionally male dominated profession for close to 30 years and I've never been hit on either. I don't think it's rampant. Most men I've worked with have been pretty decent people.

.

CStanley said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
TWW said...

What would men be doing if we weren't constantly abusing women????

William Chadwick said...

For years, laboring in the corporate vineyards, I worked with a guy who was so widely considered a creep by the women he worked with--and some of the guys--that his office nickname became "Creepy." He was of average height, weight and looks, and except for a persistent leer, did nothing to bring about a trip to Human Resources and a lecture about Sexual Harrassment. (Such things we just beginning.) And yet, he gave off such a creepy, predatory "vibe" that women would ask me if I thought they were safe working late at the office with Creepy around. Interestingly, my girlfriend of the time once visited at the office, and got out of her car just as Creepy was getting out of his. They walked to the office entrance about twenty feet apart. He didn't say anything to her, and vice versa, and she didn't know who he was or even that I knew him. But once we were alone, and she saw that he and I worked in the same office, she asked me, "Who IS that guy? Is he some kind of sex pervert?"

I don't know what lesson if any we can draw from this. I don't think that being better looking or of higher socioeconomic status would have made him less repellent to the "gals," except perhaps to the stupider ones.

Rick67 said...

My first thought is "does she mean what would women be doing if it weren't for conservative male abuse? or male abuse within an extremely liberal-progressive social culture?" That's what irks me about the whole Weinstein-super-liberal-Hollywood-treats-women-and-even-boys-as-sex-toys kerfuffle. We are told the threat is more traditional, conservative "patriarchy". Meanwhile the actual villains are very anti-conservative.

(I'm not forgetting the blow up over sexual abuse within the Catholic Church. That both reinforces and complicates the picture.)

Gospace said...

FIDO said...
Samantha Banks wrote about her experiment in an 'all female workplace' to avoid the toxicity of males.

It did not end well...


I have yet to hear at my tender young age of 62 any woman anywhere say- "I prefer working for a female boss." And I have heard them say which sex they prefer working for many times. Many many times.