October 18, 2017

"People have to be careful because at some point I fight back. I'm being very nice. I'm being very, very nice."

"But at some point I fight back, and it won't be pretty," said Donald Trump on a radio show when he was asked about John McCain's speech complaining about "half-baked, spurious nationalism cooked up by people who would rather find scapegoats than solve problems."

McCain's line sounds nasty as he delivered it (which you can see at the link), but really isn't that bad if you examine it word for word. He's not denouncing "nationalism," just nationalism that's not good enough. And he's saying he prefers to solve problems. That is, he's not that interested in ideas, and yet maybe he would be interested in an idea — including nationalism — if the people using it would develop it in a careful and serious way.

I'm also interested in the mixed metaphor because of the effort to keep it unmixed by pairing "half-baked" with "cooked" and then wrecking it with "scapegoats." Though goats can be cooked, a scapegoat is not cooked, but sent out into the wilderness.


"The Scapegoat" by William Holman Hunt, 1854.

Looking at that picture, I wondered if the "scape" in "scapegoat" was like the "scape" in "landscape," but the OED tells me it's like the "scape" in "escape.” "Landscape" comes from the Dutch "landschap," with the "schap" part being like the "-ship" ending in words like "friendship" and "scholarship." The word "landscape" began in painting, and I did like that painting of the scapegoat in the landscape. I'd like to title it "Goatscape."

152 comments:

gbarto said...

John McCain discovered the importance of earnest and honest government after he got caught up in the Keating Five scandal. He is the Washington equivalent of the Hollywood types who are just shocked about Harvey Weinstein and sure they're still fit to be everyone else's moral superior.

Achilles said...

McCain is going to be treated poorly by history.

buwaya said...

The whole business does not seem like the scapegoat metaphor at all.

Everyone is dancing around the real issue that rules the rest, and that marks the rift between the backers of McCain and those of Trump - immigration and foreign labor.

All else is a peripheral issue, or entirely irrelevant, but ground on which McCain's side would rather fight, as the decisive ground is unfavorable to their side and they can't afford a defeat there.

Ignoring the elephant in the living room might be it, but its a clumsy metaphor.

Todd said...

McCain seems to be going out of his way to show how far he has fallen. If he spent half the time he spends on fighting Trump, on fighting for Republicans, so much more could get done.

I guess he is trying to get invited to all the right parties...

Mike Sylwester said...

half-baked, spurious nationalism cooked up by people who would rather find scapegoats than solve problems

Problems that needed to be solved include:

* Failure to enforce immigration laws

* Foreign women coming into the USA to give birth to US citizens

* Massive immigration without political discussion

* Central American women and children running across our border

* Immigrants replacing US-born Blacks in the labor force

* Immigrants replacing US-born blue-collar workers in the work force

* Immigrants becoming citizens and voting overwhelmingly for Democrats

Thank God that Trump ran for President. Finally, someone has compelled the US political establishment to address such issues.

exiledonmainstreet said...

I guess he is trying to get invited to all the right parties...

10/18/17, 3:46 PM

You'd think that at 125, or however old he is, you wouldn't care so much about getting invited to parties.

MountainMan said...

So, what problems has McCain solved?

Etienne said...

The more Trump talks, the less I care to hear him. I feel sorry for his wife.

The way to get even is not to talk someone to death, it's easier to just let the air out of all his tires.

You can go in the front door of your enemy, but going in the back door is much more effective.

Thorley Winston said...

McCain is going to be treated poorly by history.

There have been other men who ran for President and lost but still managed to make a lasting mark on the political culture – Barry Goldwater and George McGovern come to mind. McCain will likely not be one of those men. He stands for no ideas or ideals and inspires no one. At the end of the day, his legacy will be that he was a United States Senator who was caught up in some scandal that fewer and fewer people can be bothered to remember the details of and then ran for President and lost.


Bob Ellison said...

Trump would seem less ridiculous if he stopped using words like "very".

Etienne said...

The thing that defines McCain, is that he has never had a job in his life.

He is nothing more than a politician, and owes his career to the US Treasury.

I would be surprised to hear, that he even has a drivers license.

rhhardin said...

Whatever provides the most grandstanding is what McCain will do. No exceptions.

buwaya said...

"I guess he is trying to get invited to all the right parties..."

Its all about the $. McCain has a family, followers, dependents, and a legacy to finance.

"The way to get even is not to talk someone to death, it's easier to just let the air out of all his tires."

This is politics. It does not suffice that you win, but that everyone knows you have won.

Christy said...

McCain is a cancer on the body politic.

john said...

"... at some point I fight back."

Well, good for you. After all the years you are finally not letting those painful bone spurs hold you back anymore.

Bring it on, Donald.

Big Mike said...

And he's saying he prefers to solve problems.

And which problems has McCain solved? Or been part of the solution? Or even addressed?

Mark said...

[McCain] is the Washington equivalent of the Hollywood types who are just shocked about Harvey Weinstein and sure they're still fit to be everyone else's moral superior

McCain has some of his own HW history.

There are plenty of stories of how he dumped his heroic first wife who remained faithful and diligently worked for his return when he was a prisoner of war. In return for first wife Carol's steadfast love and fidelity, John McCain gave her repeated adulteries and infidelities, before finally dumping her overboard into the ocean like refuse in favor of a newer, younger, prettier babe. And McCain has often treated second wife Cindy with abandonment and distain as well.

Bay Area Guy said...

Even though Trump is somewhat unconventional in his (a) tone and (b) political viewpoints, many people (including me) support him precisely because he does fight back.

If Romney and McCain had fought back against Obama, they might have been president. But they didn't, so they're not.

Fabi said...

"After all the years you are finally not letting those painful bone spurs hold you back anymore."

Bone spurs don't interfere with rhetorical or political skirmishes. Try again?

Michael K said...

Its all about the $. McCain has a family, followers, dependents, and a legacy to finance.

Maybe followers but he has a rich wife that he has treated like shit for years. He dumped Carol, his first wife who waited for him through the years as a POW.

He married the rich wife and has done nothing but bloviate. I supported him in 2000 because I thought Bush was a lightweight.
I doubt any of those guys in 2000, who were mostly Navy, support him today.

He is just a nasty old man who has done little with his life. He never lived up to his father and grandfather who were truly great men.

His grandfather took the rap for Halsey's murderous fumbling of the fleet in a typhoon that cost lives.

Nimitiz thought Halsey was too valuable as a PR figure to cashier but he should have done so after "The battle of Bull's run" when he left the landing beaches of Leyte and was saved by the bravery of some men in a "Jeep " Carrier and some DEs that died to pull Halsey's fat out of the fire.

Michael K said...

After all the years you are finally not letting those painful bone spurs hold you back anymore.

Bone spurs are still disqualifying and we test for them on every recruit. When did you serve, general ?

AReasonableMan said...

Have we ever seen Trump be nice? It doesn't really seem in his nature. There is just one Trump, an unpleasant fucker who spews a constant stream of invective against the world, which has done him wrong.

Maybe the bone spurs make him irritable.

traditionalguy said...

McCain wants to be the Admiral without which the Pax Americana
Empire would not rule the world like the predecessor British Empire that created Pax Brittanica for 250 years. Dumbo Trump will settle for ruling North America within boundaries announced by Monroe.

Trump wants wealth in place of wars everywhere.





AJ Lynch said...

Someone ask McCain to please name one big problem he has solved in his 35 years in the Imperial City and then ask Slow Joe Biden too. Bupkis is what they would have to say.

john said...

Michael K said...
Bone spurs are still disqualifying and we test for them on every recruit. When did you serve, general ?


'Bout the same time those spurs grew.

chuck said...

And I suppose McCain thinks he embodies those virtues. So what is new?

buwaya said...

"Have we ever seen Trump be nice? It doesn't really seem in his nature. There is just one Trump, an unpleasant fucker who spews a constant stream of invective against the world, which has done him wrong."

Interesting point. I suspect there is a lot of genial Trump out there, and this does suit his in-person reputation, but its not whats repeated. Both sides want pugnacious Trump for their own reasons, his supporters because they want to see him popping the other side in the nose, his enemies to reinforce their hate.

Dickin'Bimbos@Home said...

McCain should be re-called. Hes too old and sick to serve.

MayBee said...

I'm beginning to suspect politicians don't like to actually solve problems (it's not easy!) but love acting as if they *would* be solving problems if someone else would just let them.

MayBee said...

Cuz I'm with AJ Lynch and Big Mike....what problems has McCain solved? What solutions does he currently have on the table?

Molly said...

My eyesight is too poor, or my computer too small: Is the goat in the painting wearing a hat?

Humperdink said...

Michael K said...
Bone spurs are still disqualifying and we test for them on every recruit. When did you serve, general ?

Blogger john responded "'Bout the same time those spurs grew."

Witty retort john. So when did you serve? Inquiring minds want to know.

Etienne said...

McCain should be re-called. Hes too old and sick to serve.

The only reason he got re-elected was insane amounts of money being left in peoples front seats on the way to the ballot.

The Republicans want him to die in office, so they can have a bigger funeral than Kennedy got.

I hope they strap his body to the U.S.S. McCain, and scuttle the damaged ship into the deepest trench of the Pacific ocean.

The Vault Dweller said...

I thought McCain's comments were more aimed at Bannon and the people that support him. McCain is probably upset that Senator Flake is going to lose the republican primary, because he my sense is that he thought of Flake as some kind of protege. And Trump has been playing nice with McConnell, and did stump for Strange in Alabama.

Though at the heart of McCain's comments like with all his comments and actions is his desperation for approval from the left and the media of the left. He loves the idea of him being lauded by the left as a Republican who isn't afraid to buck his own party and join with the democrats. The media figured it out long ago and whenever they want him to do something, they start putting out pieces about how he is a Maverick or what not. In effect I think McCain has some kind of Stockholm syndrome with regards to the left and the media. I wonder if his time as a prisoner of war contributed.

Quaestor said...

Did you know that tragedy in Attic Greek is Goatsong?

Chuck said...

Michael K said...
Bone spurs are still disqualifying and we test for them on every recruit.

I don't think that it is really a debate about bone spurs. I think it is a debate about Trump totally faking his record with a phony, purchased diagnosis of bone spurs.

Fabi said...

"...Trump totally faking his record with a phony, purchased diagnosis of bone spurs."

I couldn't vote for such a candidate if I believed that to be true.

President-Mom-Jeans said...

"I think it is a debate about Trump totally faking his record with a phony, purchased diagnosis of bone spurs."

Noted War Hero and Lifelong Republican Cuck chimes in. Oh wait, you didn't serve? How did you rise to the title of Marshall of Vichy Michigan?

Quaestor said...

I wonder if his time as a prisoner of war contributed.

The word on McCain is that he was an asshole before his stay in the Hanoi Hilton, that he was truculent and resistant to subordination, and quick to remind everyone about his father, the admiral. Everyone with a business background has had to deal with the boss's son — the recent graduate who without tact, talent, drive, or even demonstrable competence is bound to rise above you, knows it, and consequently resists or ignores your demands regarding technical performance, customer relations, whatever. McCain was one of those.

Etienne said...

Jimmy Carter pardoned all draft evaders. It's a done deal, get over it.

Mountain Maven said...

he visits the troops in the war zone. Let him pass without scorn.
I'm a Blue Star Dad, like the Senator

Chuck said...

Dickin'Bimbos@Home said...
McCain should be re-called. Hes too old and sick to serve.

Is this today's exemplar of how far the Althouse commentariat has fallen in the Trump era?

Ignorant/stupid/drunk/oxy-addled yahoos thinking that United States Representatives and Senators can be recalled, as if they were state legislators or municipal officials?

"Dickin'Bimbos@Home"; name checks out.

(No member of the United States Congress has ever been recalled. The Constitution provides no mechanism for recalls. Many legal claims for federal recall elections have been attempted; none have ever succeeded. Senator Frank Church of Idaho was one notable case. Removal of members of the House and Senate is limited to the rules of the bodies, or a federal impeachment under Constitutional rules.)

Mountain Maven said...

he visits the troops in the war zone. Let him pass without scorn.
I'm a Blue Star Dad, like the Senator

Sebastian said...

"really isn't that bad" Actually, it is--as the post shows.

If McCain really wants to solve problems, he should resign immediately.

Of course, what he really wants is to gratify his vanity and pride by hogging attention and denigrating Trump.

Quaestor said...

I think it is a debate about Trump totally faking his record with a phony, purchased diagnosis of bone spurs.

And then there's the debate about Lifelong Republican Chuck trading in Venezuelan kiddie porn. We should have that debate. I say its true. Definitely true. (How do you live with yourself, Chuck?) Don't ask me for any evidence. I don't have any. I don't need any because Chuck's an asshole, and I don't like him.

President-Mom-Jeans said...

How dare you accuse Marshall Petain of Vichy Michigan Chuck of trading in Venezuelan kiddie porn? Everyone knows he prefers Argentinians. This is not up for debate, and you should be ashamed for implying otherwise.

pacwest said...

"People have to be careful because at some point I fight back. I'm being very nice. I'm being very, very nice."

And I know karate! So back off.

While I'm a fan of Trump's tweets and think they can be very useful at times (Obama wiretapping me), I think this is one of his fumbles.

Michael K said...

" I think it is a debate about Trump totally faking his record with a phony, purchased diagnosis of bone spurs."

Chuck why not present your evidence ? That is a felony.

Or are you bullshitting as usual?

mccullough said...

Is McCain upset Trump hasn't started any new wars? McCain's idea of nationalism is perpetual war on behalf of the world order. Kill all the enemies and let their progeny come to the US and compete with Dreamers for whatever low-wage jobs haven't been automated.

Left Bank of the Charles said...

Landscapegoat

Jim at said...

"Maybe the bone spurs make him irritable."

Maybe so.

What's your excuse?

Drago said...

LLR: " I think it is a debate about Trump totally faking his record with a phony, purchased diagnosis of bone spurs."

I see the Stolen-Valor defending, non-serving-but-almost-joined-but-didn't-'cuz-no-draft, non-medical doctor has chimed in.

Fantastic.

Fabi said...

"Ignorant/stupid/drunk/oxy-addled yahoos thinking..."

I could buy you with cash, boy.

Drago said...

Left Bank of the Charles: "Landscapegoat"

ManBearPig.

Earnest Prole said...

Noteworthy because Trump is seemingly indicating an understanding of the concept of self-control.

rcocean said...

We need to stop taking McCain so seriously.

First, he "dead man walking".

Second, he's only 1 Senator out of a hundred. He's not in the leadership. He's not Chairman of foreign relations.

Third, he's pushing the same old Internationalist bilge that the entire Establishment believes in. He says nothing new, and if he was a Democrat, no one would pay attention.

Fourth, his "invite the world, invade the world" beliefs are harmful to poor and working class Americans. He's a Globalist warmonger who wraps himself in the flag. He's a scoundrel of the highest order.

AMDG said...

It is indisputable that McCain is a war hero and for that he should be honored.

It is my observation that he is a horrible Senator who has become addicted to adulation from coastal elites.

He reminds me of the kid in high school who hangs on the edge of cool crowd. His number one goal is to be part of the crowd. Sometimes the cheerleader will let him do her homework but in the end he is always left out.

The saving grace of the high school kid is that he can move on and understand that the crowd he wanted to join was actually primarily a Douche convention. Sadly, it is likely that McCain will never have that epiphany.

Gahrie said...

I think it is a debate about Trump totally faking his record with a phony, purchased diagnosis of bone spurs.

After carter's pardon, Clinton's election and Kerry's rise, that shit just doesn't matter anymore.

Michael K said...

It is indisputable that McCain is a war hero and for that he should be honored.

His heroic action was declining repatriation which would have been an obvious act of treason and humiliated his father.

Since returning home he has led a rather mediocre life, abandoning his wife, marrying a rich woman and then mistreating her.

A personal friend of mine had an experience which I think typical of McCain. My friend was a Marine pilot and flew an F 18 to a McCain meet and greet in Arizona. I think it was at the Yuma MCAS. There was a receiving line and my friend, in his flight suit, stood at the end,.

McCain ignored him and walked right past as he charmed his donors. It was obvious that McCain was now far above a mere Marine fighter pilot.

rcocean said...

McCain HAS been honored for being a war hero.

That debt has been repaid a 1000 times.

If you really think McCain gets a pass for his behavior because he was a war hero, 45 years ago, then lets give Hitler and Goering a pass.

Jess said...

I wonder if McCain will bow out before Congress censures him for bizarre behavior due to his brain cancer. If I had to bet, I'd bet censure will be his legacy.

Hammond X. Gritzkofe said...

John McCain. TFW you look in the container of cottage cheese and find green stuff growing on it.

Some them other Senators is well past their Best Used By data also.

Chuck said...

Jess said...
I wonder if McCain will bow out before Congress censures him for bizarre behavior due to his brain cancer. If I had to bet, I'd bet censure will be his legacy.

You're on! What's the bet? How about $100? More?

Chuck said...

Gahrie said...
"I think it is a debate about Trump totally faking his record with a phony, purchased diagnosis of bone spurs."

After carter's pardon, Clinton's election and Kerry's rise, that shit just doesn't matter anymore.

Perhaps you think that I might defend Carter, Clinton or Kerry. You're wrong. I've never wasted a word defending any of them. Although let's admit that for all of his smarminess, John Kerry at least served on active duty in Vietnam. If you think Kerry is something of a phony and a world-class opportunist, you won't get an argument from me.

But compared to John Kerry, Trump is just a flat out draft dodger.

rehajm said...

Advice for Senator McCain; dont buy green bananas.

There. It needed to be said

Guildofcannonballs said...

Trump is the only potUS in history to not age in office, but age the office.

Chuck said...

Michael K said...
" I think it is a debate about Trump totally faking his record with a phony, purchased diagnosis of bone spurs."

Chuck why not present your evidence ? That is a felony.

Or are you bullshitting as usual?

I saw his draft records. I read them very carefully. If Trump is not lying, why not produce all of his records? I have people studying his records and they cannot believe what they are finding. I absolutely have people studying it, and let me say that if Donald Trump is a felonious draft dodger, which is a real possibility and I am not saying it but it is a real possibility, then Trump has pulled off one of the great cons in history.

Proof:
https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=6329595&postID=5483793056417207862&page=1&token=1508374385793

tim in vermont said...

McCain is a hero for turning on the voters who elected him. These are the same people who mocked Bob Dole for his wounded arm he picked up while fighting actual Nazis, the kind with an army.

Chuck said...

Guildofcannonballs said...
Trump is the only potUS in history to not age in office, but age the office.

Word. He has turned the office of Washington, Adams, Jefferson, Lincoln, Roosevelt, Eisenhower and Reagan into a 13 year-old.

tim in vermont said...

Too bad our only option was Hillary.

tim in vermont said...

Chuck wants to kill the Republican Party dead.

David said...

If you listen to McCain saying the words, which I did, the tone is nasty and contemptuous. These guys hate each other.

Quaestor said...

Chuck wrote (really, no kidding): He has turned the office of Washington, Adams, Jefferson, Lincoln, Roosevelt, Eisenhower and Reagan into a 13 year-old.

Read that sentence back to yourself aloud, slowly. Then consider your own immaturity.

You might consider taking this test.

David said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Howard said...

Dronald knew Vietnam was lost, so he punted. Only suckers want to die for a mistake they kept making 10-years after they McNamara figured out the US couldn't win. Also, Donnie's patriotic duty was to invest Daddy's money McCain didn't have a choice because Daddies money was an A-4 flying through the best active air defense system of it's time. McCain was too stupid to join the Air National Guard like Dub, which makes him a double loser.

David said...

"McCain is going to be treated poorly by history."

Already has been. In the prison camp. That was a whole boatload of history being taken out on him and his fellow prisoners.

gg6 said...

"...McCain's...complaining about "half-baked, spurious nationalism ...
McCain..sounds nasty... but really isn't that bad ... He's not denouncing "nationalism," just nationalism that's not good enough. ... ."
OMG, Althouse, you are kidding, yes??! I sure hope so.
It's OBVIOUS who/what McCain was being "nasty" about and it wasn't some political 'philosophy'... McCain cannot even spell the word Philosophy - there are not enough "I"s in it for him. This is a guy who needs some serious Psych counseling and help. He presumes he can live on past creds - real, imagined or manufactured - and they are self-shredded over the years. Get the hook, someone, please!?! What/When was the last governmental "problem" this guy "solved"?!

Michael K said...

But compared to John Kerry, Trump is just a flat out draft dodger.
<

And Clinton was a war hero. God, you are a bullshiitter!

vanderleun said...

Dear Brain Tumor,
Faster please.
Thanking you in advance,

Michael K said...

McCain was too stupid to join the Air National Guard like Dub, which makes him a double loser.

Mind sharing your DD 214 with us deplorables ?

Lefty traitors revel in this stuff.

cronus titan said...

McCain is quite used to having his butt licked by the press and the establishment by throwing tantrums about Republicans. In 2008, his base (the press) turned on him in a heartbeat when he was the Republican candidate. He had no idea what to do then when confronted politically, and still doesn't. THat insane decision to suspend the campaign to hurry back to DC in a panic was vintage McCain. So was voting against Obamacare reform -- classic McCain, it was more important to him to stick a shiv to Republicans than fulfilling what he promised the people of Arizona. THank goodness, he was not elected and for similar reasons, thank goodness Hillary was not elected.

Trump fights back, and the press, deep state, and establishment types like McCain have no clue what to do when someone stands up to the shit.

DC will be a better place the instant McCain retires.

Michael K said...

"I have people studying his records and they cannot believe what they are finding. "

"I have people."

Sounds like Nicky Santoro in "Casino."

Do you dress up in front of your mirror ?

readering said...

News report:

Senate Armed Services Committee Chairman John McCain on Tuesday painted a dire picture of his relationship with Defense Secretary Jim Mattis and National Security Advisor H.R. McMaster, saying it’s worse than it was with Obama-era Defense Secretary Ash Carter.

“I had a better working relationship, back and forth, with Ash Carter than I do with an old friend of 20 years,” McCain said, referring to Mattis. He added that he has considered both Mattis and McMaster “friends of mine for many years.”

Quaestor said...

Chuck wrote (really and truly, scout's honor): I saw his draft records. I read them very carefully. If Trump is not lying, why not produce all of his records? I have people studying his records and they cannot believe what they are finding. I absolutely have people studying it, and let me say that if Donald Trump is a felonious draft dodger, which is a real possibility and I am not saying it but it is a real possibility, then Trump has pulled off one of the great cons in history.

Proof:
https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=6329595&postID=5483793056417207862&page=1&token=1508374385793


Oh my stars and garters, Chuck linked back to this very page! (an unsympathetic person would LOL at his humiliation, but not Quaestor.)

Well, that's certainly proof of something, but not what Chuck seeks to prove.

rcocean said...

McCain wasn't a noble hero.

He went into the family business. It was expected of him. A war came along, and he went. Because it was expected of him. He had to punch his ticket to get promoted.

Its not like he dropped out of Harvard to go fight in Vietnam.

And while I respect all he went through as a POW, its not like he threw himself on a grenade, or went on a bombing mission he didn't have to go on, or went "above and beyond the call of duty". There were 10,000 guys in Vietnam who were more heroic.

But with McCain, we have to hear it, time after time, year after year. Even when he's fucking 81 years old!

Humperdink said...

LLR said: "... let me say that if Donald Trump is a felonious draft dodger ....."

If? If?

Vintage LLR.

cronus titan said...

@tim in vermont:

Good point. THe press and Democrats mocked Dole for his war wound. But he was a Republican, so that made it okay as far as they were concerned. There were voices on the left who justified Clinton taking money from the Chinese in 1996 on the theory that Bob Dole represented the 4th Reich. Interesting how every Republican running for office at any level in the last 60 years is "literally Hitler." The press and Democrats believe their own bullshit.

FullMoon said...

cronus titan said... [hush]​[hide comment]

THat insane decision to suspend the campaign to hurry back to DC in a panic was vintage McCain.


Remember the visual clearly, McCain and Obama and others at the table. McCain sat there quietly like a big dummy, Obama took over. After calling for suspension of campaigns to solve huge problem,he had nothing at all to say. I was both shocked and dismayed.

rcocean said...

"DC will be a better place the instant McCain retires."

He's a grandstanding egomaniac. He will NEVER Retire. They will drag his dead body off the Senate Floor.

Quaestor said...

There were 10,000 guys in Vietnam who were more heroic.

58,220 at a minimum.

Howard said...

Nice tired chestnut Doc. At least you are not telling me to turn my head and cough.

rcocean said...

"McCain was too stupid to join the Air National Guard like Dub"

W didn't have to fly jets - a fairly dangerous thing - even in peace time. And the Air NG Pilots could've been sent to Vietnam at a moments notice. W could've easily gotten a safe and secure job as a NG paper pusher.

FullMoon said...

rcocean said...

McCain wasn't a noble hero.

He went into the family business. It was expected of him. A war came along, and he went. Because it was expected of him. He had to punch his ticket to get promoted.

Its not like he dropped out of Harvard to go fight in Vietnam.

And while I respect all he went through as a POW, its not like he threw himself on a grenade, or went on a bombing mission he didn't have to go on, or went "above and beyond the call of duty". There were 10,000 guys in Vietnam who were more heroic.

But with McCain, we have to hear it, time after time, year after year. Even when he's fucking 81 years old!

10/18/17, 8:28 PM


Brother in law has purple heart and a bullet wound.
Friend has the same.
Guy across the street has purple heart and traded a kidney for a bronze star, I knew he was a vet, but he never mentioned his medals. Someone else told me about it.

Freder Frederson said...

Since returning home he has led a rather mediocre life, abandoning his wife, marrying a rich woman and then mistreating her.

Really?! You're going to go there? Have you looked at trumps marriage history? And I am no fan of McCain

buwaya said...

Chuck has "people" studying Trumps draft records?
Who is Chuck?

Chuck said...

Hey sorry Quaestor, and everybody else; I posted the wrong .url up above. Here is the exciting and amazing link that proved that I have people who cannot believe the things that they are finding out about Trump's draft records. And as I say -- believe me -- it's one of the great cons in history if Donald Trump was a felonious draft dodger. But why won't Trump release his medical records from his heel spurs unless he has something to hide.

Believe me when I tell you that this video is incredible:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Blckpwk1voQ

Dickin'Bimbos@Home said...

Dear Feminists, Why Does Hillary Get a Pass?

Included a total run-down of all of Bill Clintons crimes.

Dickin'Bimbos@Home said...

McCain is a liar. He told his supporters in AZ that there was nothing more important than repealing O-Care.

pacwest said...

"I saw his draft records. I read them very carefully."

My goodness. That is humiliating. Til now I thought at least it was an honest disagreement. I'm crushed.

Michael K said...

"Have you looked at trumps marriage history? And I am no fan of McCain"

Yeah. I even slightly know Ivana through a friend.

They are all supporting him.

Lem said...

The Althouse vortex returns.

Molly said...

Eaglebeak

Did you know that tragedy in Ancient Greek is Goatsong?

Yes.

Many theories as to why, but the one I like is that tragedies were originally rites of celebration of the god Dionysius, whose manifestations were the goat and the bull.

Drago said...

“I had a better working relationship, back and forth, with Ash Carter than I do with an old friend of 20 years,” McCain said, referring to Mattis. He added that he has considered both Mattis and McMaster “friends of mine for many years.”

Mattis is winning.

McCain hates that.

McCain hated Bush as well. Because Bush won, and if there's one thing McCain doesn't like, its Republican Presidents not named McCain.

Drago said...

McCain will be voting against tax cuts soon, because "Insert arbitrary reason here".

narciso said...

Mccain took a dive like the 1919 black Sox, and the covets story was in the Jones memo, he wa obsequious a Larry miller. To qadaffi one moment, and cato the next, he was one who touted Andrew Cuomo, one of those who set the seeds for the sub prine debacle at had. He touted the non Kurdish Syrian rebels which did practically bupkis to fight Islamic state to the cost of 500 million dollars. He stood by while the vets died waiting for via apointments

Drago said...

Whenever the dems/left and their lifelong republican allies need a fall guy or patsy, they turn their gaze directly onto McCain.

They sucked him into the Keating 5 scandal (should have been Keating 4, but to make it a "bi-partisan" scandal the dems fooled (easily) the idiot McCain) and when the dems needed to "launder" the fake democrat oppo research (paid in part by our very own FBI) "dossier" through a schmuck republican, they sucked McCain into that.

Of course, McCain has spent about 20 years sucking up to the MSNBC crowd (not unlike a particular commenter on these blogs) and, of course, when McCain won the republican nomination his "friends" called him Hitler, just like every other republican.

After McCain lost, with ease, he slunk right back to his lefty masters and they took him back in.

Of course. Might need this schmuck later.

Rance Fasoldt said...

Tip to readers: when I see "Chuck said..." I click on the note and it disappears. Makes reading AA's blog so much more pleasant.

chickelit said...

@Lem: There's even a portrait of the vortex. It's a septapus.

Steven Wilson said...

I remember thinking and even posting here and there during the 2008 primaries about McCain being the media's favorite Republican.
Let's pretend it's a fancy dress ball, John, and the media is one of the girls there. She'll let you fetch her punch, dance with her and she might even go out onto the balcony and neck a little bit, but when the dancing over she's going to go home with the Democrat,
fuck him in every position and orifice you can imagine, maybe even have a special on created for the purpose, and then in between times laugh at poor simple deluded Johnny Boy. And that's what they did. And that's what they are still doing. No one respects a sellout.

Someone more restrained than me summed up McCain as having a biography but not a philosophy. True then, true now, and true forever. If he had an idea it would have died of loneliness. Although I think that's pretty much true of Obama as well. He possessed no ideas, just postures and attitudes acquired in adolescence from family and friends and through graduate school. Once he grows up he will be truly appalled.

And Trump. Don't like him. don't want to spend time with him, don't want to listen to him, but I can't spare him because he will fight. Some of the time he may fight when it's unnecessary, but that's better than Romney who wouldn't fight at all.

Mary Beth said...

Oh my stars and garters, Chuck linked back to this very page!

I'm more impressed to find out that he has people.

MaxedOutMama said...

It doesn't matter, does it? McCain, at this point, is a somewhat neurologically impaired very old man facing his mortality, who is also probably possessed by a sense of offense and rejection that the country, who rejected him, selected Trump. He obviously hates Trump and some of his recent moves have so strongly contradicted his prior promises to voters that it amounts to betrayal. A sad pass for a man who began his political career as a genuine man of integrity who conducted himself nobly under enemy mistreatment so acute that it clearly qualified as torture.

What MATTERS is not whether Trump is naughty or nice. What matters is that his presidency has probably caused the exposure of a culture of political corruption that is widely disseminated among the top individuals in intelligence as well as persons holding political office. This is a crisis for our country. The days of J. Edgar Hoover have returned. We see little from Congress that addresses this acute scandal.

The recent revelations about Comey's pre-draft of the Hillary exoneration, the FBI's earlier complicity in suppressing the information about the uranium deal, and the awkwardness of discovering that the DNC "hack" simply had to be an internal act at the DNC rather than a Russian intervention all now form a straight line pointing to the worst sort of public misfeasance. The reason why the false report about Russian hacking was disseminated was because the intelligence people had to cover up their own guilt, not just Hillary's.

We are in a terrible fix. We are lucky that Trump is president, but his presidency cannot, in and of itself, redress the problem. For that we need an active Congress fulfilling its responsibilities. It's time for thinking people to contact their Congressional representatives in order to create pressure on Congress to investigate, report to the public, and to take mitigation actions.

Howard said...

Nice points Drago, McCain is a piece of work. Unlike my lefty friends freaked out by Dronald, as long as Mattis, Tillerson and Kelly are on duty, we will be just fine as long as Trump justs runs his mouth, but doesn't get into details.

M Jordan said...


Rance Fasoldt said: “Tip to readers: when I see "Chuck said..." I click on the note and it disappears. Makes reading AA's blog so much more pleasant.”

Good tip. I didn’t need it though. My eyes automatically filter out all things Chuck.

Unknown said...

What MATTERS is whether Trump is competent or incompetent.

“We are in a terrible fix.”

Yes indeed.

exiledonmainstreet said...

No, Inga, you're in a terrible fix. I'm just fine and happy Trump is president instead of the drunken hag.

FullMoon said...

Chuck said... [hush]​[hide comment]

Hey sorry Quaestor, and everybody else; I posted the wrong .url up above. Here is the exciting and amazing link that proved that I have people who cannot believe the things that they are finding out about Trump's draft records. And as I say -- believe me -- it's one of the great cons in history if Donald Trump was a felonious draft dodger. But why won't Trump release his medical records from his heel spurs unless he has something to hide.

Believe me when I tell you that this video is incredible:


Credit where credit is due, titty twister. Note that some of your admirers recognized it immediately and did not take the bait.

Narayanan Subramanian said...

Is it true that Top Gun is bio-pic of McCain?
Asking for a friend.

wwww said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Laslo Spatula said...

McCain does not want to do anything to upset the New York Times before they finalize his obituary.

I am Laslo.

Narayanan Subramanian said...

@michael k. Explain please ... Repatriation,... treason

Static Ping said...

McCain does not really seem like the man who wants to solve problems. He's the guy who makes all sorts of "red meat" promises during the election, then not only reneges on those promises but takes the opposite position once in office, and then has the gall to criticize others. Seriously, the goodwill is all gone. I can thank you for your righteous service to our country and still not like you nor respect your opinions a bit.

As for the scapegoat, it technically was not meant to be cooked, but what happens in the wilderness stays in the wilderness.

Big Mike said...

Is it true that Top Gun is bio-pic of McCain?

No. The movie "Top Gun" is about a fighter pilot. McCain was not good enough to fly supersonic fighters like the F-4 Phantom or F-8 Crusader. In fact he wasn't even good enough to fly non-supersonic fighters like George Bush's F-102. He flew the A-4, a small (by the standards of the time) subsonic attack aircraft, basically a "bomb truck" to carry bombs to a target and drop them in vague hopes of hitting something. It took a degree of courage to fly them into North Vietnamese airspace, but nothing like the skills to be a fighter pilot from Miramar's "Top Gun" school of aerial combat.

walter said...

He's a Mavericky son of a gun!
Tough days for Meghan..

cubanbob said...

Trump ought once in a while think before he tweets. He might be more effective if he did so.
As for McCain, I supported him in 2000, voted for him in 2008 but its time for him to go. He is old, sick and should spend what time he has left with his family.

Big Mike said...

As a person who has suffered off and on from bone spurs I can only wish that snarky commentators like john and Chuck would get them too. When the spurs flare up into plantar fasciitis the pain of getting up in the morning and putting weight on your foot can drive one to one's knees. They are treatable with orthotics and sometimes surgery, but the army doesn't (didn't then anyway) like to induct people who might need expensive surgery and lengthy recovery time off their feet.

walter said...

Basic training's running in combat boots probably shaped that exemption.

narciso said...

The lead instructor viper, was more than like randy duke Cunningham, it was based off a magazine article in a now extant publicatiom. But Mccain was impetuous in his youth a little like one of thecharacters in mjcheners the bridges over toko ri, now has more of a jackalope@o'rourke when he was still funny. Like col tigh in that nihilist simulacrum of battle star Galactica.

Bad Lieutenant said...

. In fact he wasn't even good enough to fly non-supersonic fighters like George Bush's F-102.


Image result for f-102 specifications
Maximum speed: Mach 1.25 (825 mph, 1,304 km/h) at 40,000 ft (12,190 m)
Range: 1,350 mi (1,170 nmo, 2,175 km)
Service ceiling: 53,400 ft (16,300 m)
Rate of climb: 13,000 ft/min (66 m/s)
Wing loading: 35 lb/ft² (172 kg/m²)
Thrust/weight: 0.70.
Convair F-102 Delta Dagger - Wikipedia

Bad Lieutenant said...

I had always understood that the special thing about naval aviators is that they perform carrier landings, and in particular, night carrier landings.

narciso said...

The first chapter f the might stuff, which I read shortly before I saw top gun, really impressed on me how hard that job was specially in the early age of jet fighters

Jack Wayne said...

If you want a real laugh, read McCain’s bio in Wikipedia. He was a bumbling fool of a pilot.

Unknown said...

FWIW, from an old Newsweek story:

The standard rap against Bush is that he was ducking combat by joining the Guard. Actually, the Texas Air Guard had a program called Palace Alert that allowed pilots to volunteer for flight time in Vietnam. Three of Bushs fellow pilots Udell, Woodfin and Fred Bradley recalled to NEWSWEEK that Bush inquired with the base commander about signing up for Palace Alert. He was told no; he had too few flying hours at the time and his plane, the F-102, was by then deemed obsolete for air combat.

walter said...

Blogger narciso said...

The first chapter f the might stuff,
--
Ha!

narciso said...

Typo the right stuff, shows what the life of a fighter pilot that would be assigned to pax river was like.

walter said...

I figured that, narcisco...but the typo might apply here.

Big Mike said...

the F-102, was by then deemed obsolete for air combat

As I understand it, the Air Force tried using F-102s for defending their air bases in Thailand, but a couple MiG-17s showed and proved that the F-102 could not live in the same sky with MiGs. In fact five of the Air Force's Vietnam-era planes were designed by the Navy: the F-4, A-7, A-1 Skyraider, EB-66 (the Navy's A-3), and late in the war the A-7. Their B-57 was a British design. Of their vaunted "century series" fighters, only the F-100 (used to drop napalm over South Vietnam), the F-101 (relegated to reconnaissance), and the F-105 saw a lot of action. However the F-105 was very heavily used as an attack aircraft to bomb and strafe targets in North Vietnam, so it's not as though all of their fighter designs were duds.

Big Mike said...

Sorry, make that MiG-21s.

Earnest Prole said...

There's a landscape identical to the goatscape near Death Valley -- more photos here.

sdharms said...

wrong AA. it WAS NASTY when he said it. It dripped with venom. Reading a transcript does not convey all that he conveyed as he delivered it. Don't alibi for that disgusting person.

Humperdink said...

sdharms said: " it WAS NASTY when he said it. It dripped with venom. Reading a transcript does not convey all that he conveyed as he delivered it."

So you have the audio? Oh please share it.

harrogate said...

When people insist "I'm being nice. I'm being very, very nice," it means they are being nice.

Chuck said...

Big Mike said...
As a person who has suffered off and on from bone spurs I can only wish that snarky commentators like john and Chuck would get them too. When the spurs flare up into plantar fasciitis the pain of getting up in the morning and putting weight on your foot can drive one to one's knees. They are treatable with orthotics and sometimes surgery, but the army doesn't (didn't then anyway) like to induct people who might need expensive surgery and lengthy recovery time off their feet.

But you are positing a real case of heel spurs. A legitimate condition. I am not suggesting that the Army ought to admit people with heel spurs. What I am suggesting was that Donald Trump faked his "heel spurs."

What I further suggest is that some television celebrity should do what Trump did as a birther; whine about his adversary constantly. Complain, relentlessly, that Trump needs to release his medical records showing his treatment for his heel spurs. Show his x-rays, which must reveal something about heel spurs.

I am suggesting all of this because that is exactly what Trump did as a birther.

Dickin'Bimbos@Home said...

Good morning. Criminal Clinton family still not president.

AllenS said...

Chuck what makes you think that Trump or anyone else has their medical records from the 1960s? I don't even have my medical records from the Army when I got out in 1968. Give it up.

Rusty said...

" What I am suggesting was that Donald Trump faked his "heel spurs."

So. Utter bullshit then. Got it.

Ray said...

MCCain is holding up confirmations as head of the armed forces committee.

No wonder his relations with Mattis and McMaster have suffered.

Big Mike said...

But you are positing a real case of heel spurs. A legitimate condition. I am not suggesting that the Army ought to admit people with heel spurs. What I am suggesting was that Donald Trump faked his "heel spurs."

On zero evidence. Keep in mind that spurs readily show up on x-rays. The slightest hint that he was faking it and the doctors at the induction center could check it out. Induction center doctors by that time were very good at sniffing out scams.

Are you aware that a plurality -- almost but not quite a majority -- of the American population believe that the media fabricates its anti-Trump stories? You need to develop more skepticism.

Drago said...

"Lifelong republican" Chuck: "What I further suggest is that some television celebrity should do what Trump did as a birther; whine about his adversary constantly. Complain, relentlessly, that Trump needs to release his medical records showing his treatment for his heel spurs. Show his x-rays, which must reveal something about heel spurs"

Only a fool would follow any advice you might have to offer.

Only. A. Fool.

Again, why aren't Michigan-based candidates beating a path to Chuckie's door to get his advice?

LOL

We all know why.

tim in vermont said...

Nefarious trend LLR Chuck is balls to the wall to end:

The remarkable thing about the Republican trending states is that they have moved steadily ever since last November, in almost every case without a single break. Democrats continue to lose voters, and they are not becoming independents. All of this appears to be due to Trump and Trump alone, as the Republican Party has not offered any reasons to embrace it.

tim in vermont said...

At this point, based on Chuckie's unrelenting hatred, and that of other "Tokyo Toms" in conservative leaning comment threads, I would vote for Hillary over Cruz.

HoodlumDoodlum said...

What I further suggest is that some television celebrity should do what Trump did as a birther; whine about his adversary constantly. Complain, relentlessly, that Trump needs to release his medical records showing his treatment for his heel spurs. Show his x-rays, which must reveal something about heel spurs.

You're in luck, Chuck: the Media (which of course doesn't exist) has naturally done just this about "Russian collusion" and "unrleased tax returns!" for quite a while now. I'm somewhat surprised you haven't noticed.

The Left can't make a big deal of Trump's deferment, Chuck, because in order to do so they'd have to argue (at least implicitly) that it was important for people to participate in the Vietnam war and/or that military service is important to have in a leader. But they can't argue that, Chuck, when they've spent decades praising draft dogers and electing people who declined to serve. I now it's confusing since the Media flips on the issue so frequently (draft dodging/military service didnt' matter when it was Clinton v Bush nor when it was Clinton v Dole, then did matter a little when it was Bush v Gore and mattered a lot when it was Bush v Kerry, then didn't matter at all when it was McCain v Obama) but it seems like the consensus is that it's just not a winning issue for the Left--at least w/r/t Vietnam. Since there are a number of veterans of more recent wars in the current Dem ranks I'm sure they'll be happy to wave the flag, as a political tactic, again in the future.

The Dems can't play the role you want. I'm not sure why a Repub would have an interest in doing so. I mean, you do and you're a LifeLongRepublican so clearly there's some appetite out there for "giving Trump back what he gave to Obama" or something...but I'm not sure how widespread that feeling is. Might be a NeverNude type of thing.

Michael K said...

"What I am suggesting was that Donald Trump faked his "heel spurs."

Chuck, who has never been within a mile of an induction center, does not know how heel spurs are detected.

The reason heel spurs are disqualifying is they are associated with plantar fasciitis which makes it very painful to walk and requires treatment.