October 16, 2017

"Many Americans have debated whether the country would be better off with Pence as President."

"From a purely partisan viewpoint, Harold Ickes, a longtime Democratic operative, argues that—putting aside the fear that Trump might start a nuclear war—'Democrats should hope Trump stays in office,' because he makes a better foil, and because Pence might work more effectively with Congress and be more successful at advancing the far right’s agenda. Newt Gingrich predicts that Pence will probably get a chance to do so. 'I think he’s the most likely Republican nominee in 2024,' he said. Ron Klain, who was chief of staff to the former Vice-President Joe Biden, is skeptical of this, given Trump’s accumulating baggage. 'There is no success for Mike Pence unless Trump works—he cannot run far enough or fast enough to not get hit by the falling tree,' Klain said. 'But he may think he can.' Evidently, the next chapter is on Pence’s mind. Over the fireplace in the Vice-President’s residence, he has hung a plaque with a passage from the Bible: '"For I know the plans I have for you," declares the lord, "Plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future."'"

Last paragraph of "The Danger of President Pence/Trump’s critics yearn for his exit. But Mike Pence, the corporate right’s inside man, poses his own risks," by Jane Mayer (in The New Yorker).

98 comments:

Dust Bunny Queen said...

Who exactly are these "many people", "many Americans"?? Are they the same people involved in "sources say" or "the consensus is...."

Who asked them anyway? Where are they located. Who do they work for. Who did they vote for.

And more importantly why should anyone care about what "anonymous sources say"?

I think "these people" referenced have imaginary friends or are listening to the voices in their heads.

:-)

Dickin'Bimbos@Home said...

Trump beat Hillary. Get over it.

Clinton Foundation: We’re not returning Weinstein’s money, thank you

J. Farmer said...

Mike Pence would either be a step backwards or a step sideways. He is decent on immigration but horrible on foreign policy (e.g. supporting stupid, pointless, endless war) and trade.

Dickin'Bimbos@Home said...

No mention of the corporate left. Big Insurance.

chickelit said...

Democrats should focus less on getting rid of Trump and more getting rid of their own Hillary. They might just find that one follows the other.

chickelit said...

And I don't believe for a millisecond that Dems are serious about purging the Clintons from their ranks. They haven't shown it.

Dickin'Bimbos@Home said...

I think Hillary is desperate to run again in 2020. The left will cave in, because it's still her turn. This is how you get more Trump.

Dickin'Bimbos@Home said...

(or - what Chickelit said)

Bay Area Guy said...

In a hermetically sealed vacuum, I'd be more of a Pence guy, than a Trump guy.

In the real, messy world, though, Trump is a fighter, who's earned his high position.

So, although I didn't vote for him in the primary, he's earned my support.

Mike Sylwester said...

Trump will serve two terms as President and then will be followed by Pence. The model is Reagan serving two terms and then being followed by his Vice President Bush.

In 2020, the US economy will be growing steadily at rate of more than 3%. Trump will win again all the states he won in 2016. Plus, he will win two states he almost won in 2016 -- Minnesota and New Hampshire.

The Democrats need to win back the under-employed blue-collar voters in the Rust Belt. So far, the Democrats' strategy to win them back comprises the following elements:

* Advocate the establishment of sanctuary cities for illegal aliens.

* Make racism accusations constantly against people who question Democrat policies.

* Disrespect our National Anthem and our founding fathers.

* Try to turn the US economy into socialism.

* Ape the John Birch Society's paranoia about the US President collaborating with Russia.

Mark O said...

Trump has put the fear of God into the Establishment. More. Faster.

chickelit said...

DBQ notes: And more importantly why should anyone care about what "anonymous sources say"?

It worked for so long and so well that they're hoping to keep the ol' tradition around without anyone noticing.

tcrosse said...

And I don't believe for a millisecond that Dems are serious about purging the Clintons from their ranks. They haven't shown it.

The Big Money guys who bought H>er are not ready to write off their investment.

Bill, Republic of Texas said...

To repeat myself from the what should I blog thread.

I think this is the left starting to stop worrying about and learn to love the Trump.

Russiagate is a huge embarrassment for the left and Obama. Mueller is drilled a dry hole. Now they are reduced to impeachment for purely political purposes dream if the Dems wins the House. Hey guys, Senate gets to vote too.

So now they are at the sour grape phase. Hopefully soon, the Dems nervous breakdown will be over.

Gahrie said...

It doesn't matter who the Republicans run...the Democrats and MSM will demonize them.

If Jesus returned and ran as a Republican, the Left and the MSM would start calling him a religious extremist, and start warning about a looming theocracy.

Michael K said...

Jane Mayer is a liar. She has published lies about Clarence Thomas among others.

She is a hard left partisan who cannot be trusted to tell you the time of the day.

If Pence should succeed Trump if, say, he decided not to run in 2020, he would quickly become Hitler and a better target because he would be passive like Bush,

AJ Lynch said...

Jane Mayer is just another run of the mill cuckoo for cocoa puffs NYC librul and they are having a collective mental breakdown.

chickelit said...

Dickin'Bimbos@Home said...I think Hillary is desperate to run again in 2020. The left will cave in, because it's still her turn.

I can almost see the political button: "It's Her Turn More Than Ever: Hillary! 2020"

Shades of 1972's Nixon, Now More Than Ever

chickelit said...

tcrosse added: The Big Money guys who bought H>er are not ready to write off their investment.

That includes a lot of foreign governments.

Roy Jacobsen said...

Based on several decades of observing the American left, I would have to say that, in their view, the only thing worse than the current Republican president is the next Republican president.

RichardJohnson said...

This is just one more example a line the Demos have peddled for years: "a good Republican is not the one on top.". When Reagan was in office, Demos told us he was the crazy who would bring us Armageddon. Today, it is not hard at all to find Demos praising Reagan. Ditto Dubya. While some Demos might currently consider Pence as someone they could work with, if Pence were President, those same Demos would mercilessly attack him.

rhhardin said...

Mayer used to write entertaining stuff for the WSJ, but I don't remember clearly what. Just that she was a must-read entertainer.

TreeJoe said...

That's a good biblical passage typically associated with not being anxious but in trusting that you do not know your future and that good things can come in unexpected ways.

The lack of understanding of the passage is, I think, reflective of the author of the article demonstrating a preferred worldview.

Bob Boyd said...

If elected President in 2024, Pence will be "literally Hitler".
And in 2025 we'll see stories like:
"Speaking off the record, close Trump associates say that privately Trump is angry, thinks Pence's plan goes too far."
and
"Pence blithely steps over a line more prudent American Presidents like Obama and Trump were careful never to cross."

rhhardin said...

Pence could get a Rodin-like Vice-Presidential statue made.

rcocean said...

"Jane Mayer is a liar. She has published lies about Clarence Thomas among others."

Exactly. She and Jill Abramson wrote "Strange Justice" which was just one lie (and DNC talking point) after another. I was able to listen to the Thomas-Hill hearings at work, and Mayer's book bore no relationship to the truth. A pure hatchet job.

Birches said...

Oh brother. Standard Christian scripture is now messaging about a Presidential run?

mockturtle said...

Who exactly are these "many people", "many Americans"?? Are they the same people involved in "sources say" or "the consensus is...."

Who asked them anyway? Where are they located. Who do they work for. Who did they vote for.

And more importantly why should anyone care about what "anonymous sources say"?

I think "these people" referenced have imaginary friends or are listening to the voices in their heads.


Yes, DBQ. The same ones from whom "questions are being raised".

rcocean said...

Ho Hum. Pence would be labeled a "Nazi" the day after he takes office.

No one but Trump could've won the Midwest like Trump did. No one else could've beaten Hillary in 2016.

rehajm said...

Is this is a meta article for Team Watergate Trump or is it a Monday morning dopamine squirt for the Trump anxiety ridden?

mockturtle said...

Pence is GOPe. We neither nominated nor elected a GOPe candidate for good reason.

gspencer said...

They can have their bite at the Pence apple in the 2023-4 campaign season.

rcocean said...

I refuse to believe anything liberal MSM sources say about the Trump, unless they start quoting real people - not "High WH officials" or "those in the meeting", or "those familiar with both men".

They've claimed Kelly, Mattis, and Tillerson said things that all 3 have denied publicly. NO credibility.

traditionalguy said...

You mean the Moron Pence? He practices supernatural Religion...the one that everyone fears. And he even acts normal when he does it because he is Indiana bred.

Chris N said...

Alas, The New Yorker.

Howard said...

Trump is a known quantity and his operating methods transparent. Pence is a Stepford wife and no one knows who's pulling the strings.

Unknown said...

The Left is always in love with the GOP guy they don't have and think incompetent or that can be defeated.

Meanwhile, Trump continues to dismantle the deep state policies and machine - all while sending inflammatory tweets that distract and outrage the NeverTrumpers.

It really is fun to watch.

-sw

Chuck said...

"Jane Mayer is a liar."

Lol. I knew that. What I also know is that Donald Trump is a liar. A liar on such a cosmic scale that even a leftwing hyper-partisan like Jane Mayer can't even dream of being a liar on Trump's scale.

mockturtle said...

Trump was elected because he is unconventional and apolitical. People are tired of the usual suspects.

Hagar said...

Mike Pence talks like a politician.

Meanwhile, the Sunni Arabs in Iraq are now about done for, and the Kurds look to be the next target. The U.S. has been backing the Kurds so far, but neither Iran nor Turkey may take that very seriously, given our past record of alliances in the Middle East.

2024 is an eternity away.

tcrosse said...

I look forward to Pence debating Hillary in 2024.

roesch/voltaire said...

As long a people like Mario, the opioid advocate for big Pharma, can be placed in power Trump and or Pence will keep their base happy and high--But Mayer's Dark Money is a must read to learn how they finance the deals.

tcrosse said...

Mike Pence: Threat or Menace ?

Greg Hlatky said...

Just proves what we already knew: the Left's rage won't stop with Trump gone.

Dickin'Bimbos@Home said...

"There's something wrong with Hillary Clinton. It is not just her constant lying. It is not just that she throws off menacing glares and seethes thwarted entitlement. Watch closely. Something much darker rides along with it. A cold creepiness rarely seen."

-Julian Assange

Hillary - on the never-ending war path.

mockturtle said...

R/V: the opioid advocate for big Pharma

I have no affection for Big Pharma but blaming pharmaceutical companies for opioid abuse is like blaming the liquor industry for alcoholism.

Dickin'Bimbos@Home said...

Screw life saving drugs and medical devices. None of that for you, leftists. Go directly to Venezuela and eat street cat. Do not pass go.

rehajm said...

A cold creepiness rarely seen. equals Don't you think she looks tired?

Ron Winkleheimer said...

So, more wish casting or attempt to get eyeballs and clicks from deluded leftists?

Not tired yet.

Freder Frederson said...

I know you all would love to see Hillary run in 2020. But it just ain't gonna happen.

rcocean said...

Hillary just cancelled all her UK book tour events because "she fell down and hurt her foot".

Really?

talk about a bogus excuse.

Fabi said...

"It's Her Turn More Than Ever: Hillary! 2020"

Early thread winner!

Bob Boyd said...

"I know you all would love to see Hillary run in 2020. But it just ain't gonna happen."

Sadly, you're probably right. So who do you think will be the candidate?

sparrow said...

FWIW I doubt Hilary can get nominated again.

Hagar said...

By 2024 a lot of today's bigwigs are going to be dead or in wheelchairs.
A number of them are going to be hard put to make it to 2020.

sparrow said...

Expect some-one like Sanders maybe K. Harris

Ron Winkleheimer said...

FWIW I doubt Hilary can get nominated again.

It took the combined efforts of the DNC leadership and the MSM to drag her over the finish line ahead of Bernie Freakin Sanders. And now the Democrat party base is sprinting further to the left. Hillary will not be the nominee and she knows it. She has probably already been told that and that is why she is so angry. She will not be the first female president of the United States. Or should that be the first person who identifies as female?

buwaya said...

Your entire political system is an array of lies.
Nobody argues about genuine, significant matters because these cannot be made visible. They are inconvenient to politics.

Every word published in your MSM packs in more duplicity and hypocrisy than whatever Trump has ever said, through its implications and through its deflection of matters of significance. Can a persons personality consist entirely of falsehoods? If so you have a whole social class in that condition.

tcrosse said...

And now the Democrat party base is sprinting further to the left.

What did the Democrat party base ever have to do with it ? Follow the money.

Bob Boyd said...

Dems seem to be successful when they nominate a dark horse. Carter, Clinton, Obama.
Prominent Democrat politicians are perceived as too liberal or have too much baggage to win the general. Carter the 2nd time, Mondale, Gore, Kerry, Hillary.

buwaya said...

Kamala Harris seems to be it, for now.

Whoever it is needs to be black, at least in part. The Obama factor made the difference in 2012, and its lack was decisive in 2016. K. Harris has more in the way of a public career than Obama, whatever her faults.

Her weaknesses will come from a history of corruption, if such can be exposed and effectively exploited. This may not suffice though. She also lacks Obamas skill as an actor. Not a good orator.

Mountain Maven said...

They hate Pence because he's a Christian.

The Godfather said...

I can't believe that Hillary is so lacking in self-respect or self-knowledge that she will choose to be the 21st Century's Harold Stassen (if you're too young to remember him, look him up). But who else do the Democrats have? Elizabeth Warren? Bernie Sanders? Kamala Harris? Which States that Trump carried could any of them flip? The Democrats hardly have anyone left who could plausibly be called a moderate. Joe Manchin? Imagine him running in the primaries against the lefties?

This is why the Democrats and their media allies have to demonize Trump and would demonize Pence if need be: Their candidates can only hope to win if they run against "literally Hitler". This is very bad for the country, but I don't see it changing anytime soon.

Mountain Maven said...

Ditto on Kamala. She is the epitome of the affirmative action tool. She has nothing but identity politics going for her. Her past is brutal.

Mountain Maven said...

Cotton 2024.

exhelodrvr1 said...

I thought Pence was Hitler.

Bob Boyd said...

"I thought Pence was Hitler."

It's Hitlers all the way down.

wwww said...

"I know you all would love to see Hillary run in 2020. But it just ain't gonna happen."

Sadly, you're probably right. So who do you think will be the candidate?


Completely unknowable at this point. Both parties are restructuring. The Clinton era is in the past, but that won't be clear until the media stops talking about her. I'm starting to think that won't happen until the run up to the 2020 race. A whole range of people could appear. Trump showed that you don't have to be a pol to run for president.

exhelodrvr1 said...

The Democrats are bitterly clinging to their Nov 7 2016 fantasy world.

Ron Winkleheimer said...

Trump showed that you don't have to be a pol to run for president.

I think you will see lot of leftis politicians make a run for it. Most will fail, hilariously. DNC is not going to allow an outsider to take the nomination. The party's rules are purposely structured so that the leadership controls who gets the nod.

Ron Winkleheimer said...

What did the Democrat party base ever have to do with it ? Follow the money.

Undeniably true, but the politicians have to pretend to care what the base wants. That's what is roiling the GOP right now. The base simply does not believe that the politicians care what the base wants. GOP politicians have lost all credibility. So much so that having the support of the party is now a liability in primaries.

Think about the implications of that. The people who should be the base of the GOP now believe that the party is actively inimical to their interests. That is why you get Trump. The establishment thinks they can get rid of Trump or minimize his impact while waiting out his term and then return to the status quo. They think that because they are idiots.

Bob Boyd said...

"Trump showed that you don't have to be a pol to run for president."

The establishment of both parties are doing all they can to make an example of Trump to discourage anymore outsiders. They using a special prosecutor, they're costing Trump a fortune a fortune in legal fees over law suits, they're going after his family and friends, his businesses, anyone who serves his administration and their families and friends and reputations, they're trying to insure his agenda fails. They want other outsiders to look at what happened to Trump and think, it's not worth it.

mockturtle said...

The Democrats hardly have anyone left who could plausibly be called a moderate.

Jim Webb? But, of course, he has no chance of getting Democratic support. Trump lacked Republican support but didn't need it.

Big Mike said...

Bob Boyd is right, of course. But as I explained to my Republican Congresswoman, if you can't and won't work with Trump, then what is the difference between you and a generic Democrat occupying your seat? Maybe if a Democrat occupies your seat after 2018 then we can get someone who will work with Trump following his reelection.

mockturtle said...

Big Mike, I have told the GOP in writing that, unless they support our President, they cannot ask for my support.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

Big Mike, I have told the GOP in writing that, unless they support our President, they cannot ask for my support.

You are way nicer than my husband who can't wait for some hapless Republican Party lackey to call and ask for money for the RNC, so that he can verbally harass and harangue him/her. Give them a verbal thrashing. He's pretty good at it too!

I almost feel sorry for the callers. Their life must be Hell right about now.

You would think that by now our number has been placed on an "OMG DON'T CALL THESE PEOPLE" list.

mockturtle said...

You would think that by now our number has been placed on an "OMG DON'T CALL THESE PEOPLE" list.

;-D

n.n said...

Whereas Obama progressed the status quo, Trump threatens to disrupt the 1%, domestic and foreign, women and men's cocktail hour.

Scott McGlasson said...

'There is no success for Mike Pence unless Trump works—he cannot run far enough or fast enough to not get hit by the falling tree,' Klain said. 'But he may think he can.'

A staggeringly insightful sentiment that doesn't apply to any other vice-president evah...

Titus said...

I prefer Trump. I like the part when Trump was joking saying Pence would like to hang fags-probably not a joke.

Bad Lieutenant said...

But Titus, I thought you liked your fags well hung.

Sam L. said...

I expect most of those debating this are Dems.

mockturtle said...

But Titus, I thought you liked your fags well hung.

Brilliant, BL! ;-)

Achilles said...

There will never be a President Pence. First if Trump is removed by a combination of democrats/republicans DC will burn. Second Pence would do about as well as Scott Walker did in the primary.

If Kid Rock runs in 2024 he would crush Pence or any of the "Deep Bench." We are not going back to the GOPe. It will be someone else.

Achilles said...

Chuck said...
"Jane Mayer is a liar."

Lol. I knew that. What I also know is that Donald Trump is a liar. A liar on such a cosmic scale that even a leftwing hyper-partisan like Jane Mayer can't even dream of being a liar on Trump's scale.

One of the times when Chuck lets his mask slip completely. What a dishonest loser.

Gahrie said...

"I know you all would love to see Hillary run in 2020. But it just ain't gonna happen."

Sadly, you're probably right. So who do you think will be the candidate?


If Oprah wants it, she gets it. If not Oprah, probably Kamala Harris with either Gavin Newsome or Andrew Cuomo as her running mate.

Geoff Matthews said...

So, the people who said Trump couldn't possibly win are the people who are saying he can't finish his term.

JSF said...

The modern post-2004 Democrats learned very well from Orwell's INGSOC.

Without their "2 Minute hates," against Republicans and Conservatives, what would they stand for?

Heck, Tip O'Neill couldn't survive in today's Democratic Party after what happened to Senator Lieberman for working across the aisle with President George W. Bush.

The Left really loves their Pretty Hate Machine. And they wonder why most Americans turned off from Hillary Clinton.

buwaya said...

Newsom is out in a Harris run.
No VP for him.
He is a political enemy of the Willie Brown machine.
And he is just about a failed CA politician.
He is blocked from rising here because of his inability to work the ethnic machines. He represents the old version of the CA Dem party, the Pat Brown/Feinstein wing, the old San Francisco haut-bourgeois PTB. Obsolete now.
Its maybe not prudent to count out such a young man, but I don't see it.

Howard said...

Blogger mockturtle said...I have no affection for Big Pharma but blaming pharmaceutical companies for opioid abuse is like blaming the liquor industry for alcoholism. 10/16/17, 10:38 AM
Exactly, the blame lies squarely on all those morbidly obese functionally retarded Trump voters living in flyover land who shovel that shit down their gullets along with 48-oz Big Gulps and Double Western Bacon Cheese burgers. Let Freedom Burp!

Bad Lieutenant said...

Howard said...

Exactly, the blame lies squarely on all those morbidly obese functionally retarded Trump voters living in flyover land who shovel that shit down their gullets along with 48-oz Big Gulps and Double Western Bacon Cheese burgers. Let Freedom Burp!

I know, Howard. Pity they haven't all got one neck and you with your hands around it.

HT said...

because he makes a better foil

Still no. Sadly.

Earnest Prole said...

It's taken the left this long to figure this out?

Howard said...

None of them have necks, Lieutenant.... they make up for it with extra chins.
I don't need to lift a finger, they are doing their patriotic duty to Darwin by choking themselves on supersize happy meals.
What's the matter, I thought you right wankers were into tough love and criminalizing druggies?

Bad Lieutenant said...

If I used too many hard words or challenging constructions, Howard, it's pretty clear that you hate them and want them to die.

Howard said...

No BL, I want them to pull their heads out of their asses go on a diet and get clean. They are the ones who want themselves dead. Not in the habit of enabling chronic suiciders. IOW, just f-ing with you

Just keep enabling your pal Jeff Sessions to keep CBD a Class I narco federal felony. You don't want people to grow their own non-narcotic pain meds because that's un-American. The opioid crisis is a huge repug self inflicted wound.

Fake liberal commie pinko trans news from MSM blames congress and big pharma, not the addicts. What BS, this was a great bill pushed by republicans to ensure people get their medicine because compassion.
Congress Limits Opioid Enforcement

Baronger said...

Trump is a leader and one of his good leader he is effective at training people.

Notice how he is treating Pence like he would a VP in business and not as a political VP

What do they think Pence will be like after 9 years of training.

Bad Lieutenant said...

Sadly, Howard, Sessions no longer takes my calls, so I am unable to propound your excellent views to him.