October 18, 2017

"Democrat Congresswoman totally fabricated what I said to the wife of a soldier who died in action (and I have proof). Sad!"

Wow. I thought — even knowing Trump's penchant for defending himself — that he'd have kept silent on this one.

A woman's husband had died, Trump made a 5-minute telephone call, and Rep. Frederica Wilson, claiming to have been sitting with the widow and listening to the conversation on the speakerphone, went public with a snippet of quote from the conversation — the man "knew what he signed up for... but when it happens it hurts anyway" — and to assert that the widow remarked that Trump didn't remember the dead man's name.

The man's name was La David Johnson, and I'm thinking that if Trump resisted saying the name, perhaps he worried that he didn't have the right name: Could it really be La David? Is that a man's name?

And what was the whole context of the conversation? The chain of words "knew what he signed up for" could appear in a good-enough message of condolence. I've heard this idea expressed many times. It's one way that we praise those in the all-volunteer military. They are courageous and generous to put their lives on the line for us.

But I chose not to say anything like that yesterday, because I believed in the etiquette of giving priority to the widow's grief. The power of Congresswoman Wilson's speech was, I would have thought, that you can't respond to it. Common sense says: You'll only make it worse. You'll be taking the bait, giving the story another day of life and creating new evidence that will be used against you.

But Trump — the man is not normal — did not take the common-sense approach and keep silent. He's a man who fights back. His response is pretty good and in classic Trump style: "Democrat Congresswoman totally fabricated what I said to the wife of a soldier who died in action (and I have proof). Sad!"

He goes after the Congresswoman (and doesn't mention the widow, whose exposure was all the Congresswoman's doing).

He tells us the Congresswoman is a Democrat. We might stop there and say: This is politics. A Trump-hater, probably, taking the awful step of appropriating the widow's grief for political purposes.

Or we might read more about her. In the article I linked to (in The Daily Mail), I see that she — like the widow and the dead soldier — is African-American. She's also rich, 74 years old, misses a lot of votes in Congress, and avoided the Trump inauguration. Now, I'm thinking way too much about Wilson, but the question is: Did she lie? Who knows? I assume she at least presented what she knew in a manner that would hurt Trump. This becomes another Democratic Party in Trumpland story.

The claim that he has "proof" and the closing shot "Sad!" are classic Trump. Whether he has good enough character can't matter when he doesn't have enough characters (in the Twitter sense). Can it?

Of course it can, especially to people who already hate him. But they can't hate him anymore than they already do. Those who love Trump, I suspect, will accept "(and I have proof). Sad!" It's brusque — so is "he knew what he signed up for." But that's Trump, the man they love.

As for the people who neither love nor hate Trump, the lovers and haters might think such people do not exist. He's the ultimate love-him-or-hate-him guy. But I'm here to tell you there are such people. It's weird. But we exist.

245 comments:

1 – 200 of 245   Newer›   Newest»
Dickin'Bimbos@Home said...

oh no - must Impeach and install HIllary.

mccullough said...

We do exist. We are spectators to the oddity of it all.

Dickin'Bimbos@Home said...

Instead of discussing Clinton Russian collusion and money laundering through the Clinton Foundation and Bill's 500,000 Moscow speeches, the media are all over this. Very important.

exiledonmainstreet said...

I voted for him, but I do not love him. I appreciate that he fights. On a personal level, I think he would get on my nerves pretty quickly. But I voted for a president, not my best friend.

(And as annoying as Trump can be, I still vastly prefer him to Hillary.)

exiledonmainstreet said...

Dickin'Bimbos@Home said...
Instead of discussing Clinton Russian collusion and money laundering through the Clinton Foundation and Bill's 500,000 Moscow speeches, the media are all over this. Very important.


10/18/17, 8:45 AM

Trump should be tweeting about that - and about how the media is ignoring the story.

Bay Area Guy said...

What Exile said.

Henry said...

It's weird. But we exist.

Yup.

Dickin'Bimbos@Home said...

Trump should be tweeting about that - and about how the media is ignoring the story.

Agreed.

Dickin'Bimbos@Home said...

Trump should be cleaning house at the DOJ and re-opening a criminal investigation into The Clitnons and Eric Holder, and their Russian money-schemes.

John Lynch said...

Conservatives are always quoted out of context. This game has been played for decades. No one on the right cares anymore. Liberals still fall for it.

traditionalguy said...

Are you implying that those who love him know what they signed up for? He is one of those Ohio Amish.

HoodlumDoodlum said...

Ooof. I'm not sure who to dislike more.
It's distasteful in the extreme to use "fallen soldiers" as a prop. Republicans do that too often. Democrats do it to--remember the Benghazi funerals?--but maybe I just expect less from Dems. Trump shot his mouth off about his level of care in dealing with families, then sorta tried to walk back his comments only to find that the Media won't let him back away...so instead of Trump taking a small loss and everyone delicately moving past it we get Dems jumping in to try and score points and Trump, predictably, refusing to concede on even a minor point.
He fights! Yeah, great, and I want someone who fights back and takes it to the Media, but even within that framework there are times when a particular fight is not a good idea. "He always fights no matter what" isn't likely an optimal strategy once your opponents understand they can easily bait you into costly battles.

Our politicians too often behave like classless goons. Our Media is happy to exploit any and all for the sake of their ratings and their agenda(s).

Michael K said...

That's ARM's big scoop. Important enough to interrupt another thread.

Trump probably has a script for these calls. He might even have a recording.

Do the Democrats want to take him on once more ?

Dust Bunny Queen said...

But Trump — the man is not normal — did not take the common-sense approach and keep silent.

There is nothing common sense about sitting back and letting people make up stories about you, twist your words, take statements out of context, lie about you, impune your character, try to destroy you.

All of these things have been done to Trump on a daily basis. Only an idiot would sit still, keep silent and not fight back. Fighting back to protect yourself IS normal.

I'm pretty sure Trump is not an idiot.

In the future. Trump and anyone else should avoid conversations with the family of the deceased and only put their condolences in writing.

AND....the dead soldier DID know what he signed up for. We have a volunteer military. No one wants to die, but it is a part of the potentials in the job.

Michael K said...

"It's distasteful in the extreme to use "fallen soldiers" as a prop"

Benghazi caskets and families anyone ?

Trump did not disclose the call. He did say that he was doing it and that Obama did not. He may not have realized that Bush did it and did not say so.

LilyBart said...


I don't love him or hate him. He's not my ideal guy, but I only had the choice between two people (Hill or Trump), so here we are. Trump is a big mouth / big ego guy and sometimes makes me cringe, but what he's actually *doing* is a lot better than we would get from Hillary IMO.

This kind of criticism doesn't make he dislike Trump more, it makes he hate the left more because its so stupid and petty. Looking at the full comment he's reported to have made, it doesn't sound that bad - could have been better. The left is starting to sound like that stupid kid in elementary school who's always tattling on people for minor stuff.

gspencer said...

I like the guy and support many of his ideas and initiatives.

But I really wish he's learn the First Law of Holes.

It'd be even more preferable if his staff could, antecedent to that first law, deny him a shovel to begin with.

Ralph L said...

JFK, LBJ, and Nixon recorded their phone conversations for other reasons, but Trump would be wise to do so with some people. I assume he does with foreign leaders.

Why would the widow (presumably) ask her Congressman to listen to the scheduled POTUS call, and why would she do so?

Earnest Prole said...

There's no contradiction between being profoundly grateful that Hillary Clinton is not president and noting that Donald Trump is a wackadoodle.

Kevin said...

Trump is there to drain the swamp. This Congresswoman is covered in moss.

The first lesson of Washington is a lie which is not responded to becomes truth. Unlike a Democrat President, he doesn't have the media establishment to respond for him and thus must do so himself. Particularly when the media is the source of many fabrications.

For the good of his presidency, if unfairly attacked he will - and must - hit back. Why people don't understand that is beyond me.

Hagar said...

The full text when Trump said that other presidents had not called the families of fallen soldiers was that he then went meandering on, as Trump does, annd said something like "I don't know, sometimes they called, sometimes they wrote letters, sometimes they met with them."
I expect something of the kind here too, and you hear what you want to hear.

In terms of "he knew what he signed up for," the most moving thing I have read is Bruce Catton's account of Burnside's attack on Fredericksburg, and perhaps the most ridiculous is "The Charge of the Light Brigade."

In a very small way, I sometimes told myself, "Well, you was the one who requested draft."

Curious George said...

"Democrat Congresswoman totally fabricated what I said to the wife of a soldier who died in action (and I have proof). Sad!"

Life Long Republicans hardest hit.

LYNNDH said...

He fights back, enough said.

Kevin said...

"he knew what he signed up for,"

Joined the Army in equipment maintenance.
Moved from equipment maintenance to infantry.
From infantry to paratrooper.
From paratrooper to special forces.

Yes, he knew what he signed up for. He knew every step of the way.

Darrell said...

You kick Chuck and ARM in the teeth--fast and hard. That is always the right response. Bush was exsanguinated with a million little cuts, and died whimpering.

Michael K said...

Good reading for a few here.

Visiting the United States in 1831, when Andrew Jackson was president, Alexis de Tocqueville was appalled by the “vulgarity and mediocrity” of American politics. After meeting Jackson, Tocqueville concluded that the low tone of American society started at the top. In Tocqueville’s estimation, Jackson was “a man of violent character and middling capacity.” Worse, he seemed to have no talent for politics: he rode “roughshod over his personal enemies” in a way no president had done and treated members of Congress with disdain. “Nothing in all the course of his career had ever proved that he had the requisite qualities to govern a free people,” Tocqueville wrote in Democracy in America, “so the majority of the enlightened classes of the Union had always been opposed to him.”

Bill Kristol fills in for "Enlightened Classes"

Fritz said...

Michael K said...
That's ARM's big scoop. Important enough to interrupt another thread.

Trump probably has a script for these calls. He might even have a recording.


If he doesn't (and he probably does) the NSA does.

tcrosse said...

I hasten to add that Trump knew what he was signing up for, too.

rehajm said...

But Trump — the man is not normal

Like it's a bad thing...

Birches said...

This whole thing is just a fix for the Twitter mobs. Meanwhile the rest of us participate in The Real World.

Bob Boyd said...

"But Trump — the man is not normal"


A normal politician polishes his words, but doesn't mean them.

President-Mom-Jeans said...

That rotten corrupt lying cunt in Congress is a perfect representation of the Democrats.

Trump is going to win bigly in 2020.

Chuck said...

Point One: I don't regard Frederica Wilson as particularly credible, but then again who regards Trump as credible? On this very subject, the whole world watched in real time as a questioning press corps asked Trump a question about the Niger casualties, then he went off on how Obama didn't make calls to soldiers' families, and then immediately backtracked on the spot claiming it was something he was told.* Live, on worldwide television. Who believes anything Trump says? FWIW, the Congresswoman says that there were others who were present for the phone conversation, not just her and Sgt. Johnson's widow.

Point Two: I expect that Trump is used to saying "I have proof," because everyone who has ever dealt with him for any length of time on any subject of consequence has discovered what a liar Trump is. In private life, Trump was well known to have recorded his phone calls but it seems to have been a private fetish on Trump's part, and not an effective evidentiary tool. Because I can't think of any phone recording from the past that ever proved Trump to be right in the face of a detractor's claim that Trump was lying. I remember Trump trying to threaten James Comey with a Tweet about how Comey better hope that their conversation was not recorded. And of course the one great Trump phone recording that I am aware of is Trump's sociopathic role as "John Baron," speaking with a Times reporter about the affairs of Donald Trump and how Marla Maples really wanted Mr. Trump back.

Point Three: Anybody can gripe about the exact contents of the call. And attack a Democratic congresswoman who wears sequined cowboy hats and who takes ridiculous public positions. But what she claimed was that the widow ended the call saying that the president appeared to not even know her late husband's name. At some point, Trump's never-back-down approach may have him going against the widow directly. Which might reduce Trump's popularity among black voters from about 1.5% to about 1.2%.

*Trump's "It was something I was told" fallback was nearly identical to that East Room press conference early in his presidency where Trump went off about how his electoral victory was bigger than anything since Reagan, and a reporter called him on it immediately. Trump fumbled and eventually said, "I was given that information."

BDNYC said...

It sounds like an inartful way of saying he was aware of the risks but still did his job courageously. Problem is that particular phraseology can be a way of saying a victim had it coming to 'em.

Michael K said...

Poor chuck. I'll bet you spent half a morning on that essay and we will all scroll by without reading because we know what it says,.

President-Mom-Jeans said...

Lifelong Cuck jumps to the defense of a democrat, never saw that coming.

I hope Senator Kid Rock breaks a liquor bottle over your head.

Quaestor said...

But Trump — the man is not normal — did not take the common-sense approach and keep silent.

George W. Bush accepted every calumny direct at him with common sense and silence. He trusted history to endorse his decisions and his humanity. He trusted the MSM to be objective, to rise to his defence when the Chimpy McBushitler placards appeared in the street. His trust was not rewarded. Trump was taking notes at the time.

AReasonableMan said...

Althouse said...
It's weird. But we exist.


#MeToo

Fernandinande said...

Rep. Frederica Wilson, claiming to have been sitting with the widow and listening to the conversation on the speakerphone,

What marvelous timing, simply marvelous. And that's why she had her cell phone ready to record the audio she heard.

Ralph L said...

The country would have been a lot better off if LBJ had called the families of all his KIA's.
He'd have had less time for mischief making.

TreeJoe said...

This is really shitty for this congresswoman to do...

Did he forget the soldier's name, or did he not say the soldier's name? There's a huge difference....

La David Johnson didn't just sign-up to be in the army, he signed up to be in special forces - to be in the most dangerous and demanding of situations. So, no, I don't see anything wrong with saying "He knew what he signed up for but it hurts anyway" (Which should not be in quotations, as it is a congresswoman's memory of what was said, not an actual quote)

I'm glad Trump called the widow. I'm curious if the WIDOW herself has anything to say about the call. Otherwise this is a pretty shitty media spectacle.

Sally327 said...

Trump has to respond now to stuff like this because he has already established that pattern, of responding to anything he thinks is unflattering or unfair. If he didn't respond, it would be taken as true, even by his supporters possibly. Even they would wonder, how come no push back. No one is going to believe that Trump has suddenly decided he likes the view from the high ground better.

It is kind of a monstrous smear, that he could be so callous and uncaring that he'd trivialize this soldier's sacrifice and cause pain to his widow. It would take a better man than Donald Trump to let that go.


wwww said...



The chain of words "knew what he signed up for"

Jesus.

Thread from David Frum this morning:

Among other things, the Johnson story is a story of Trump White House staff dysfunction with larger implications.…1) Everybody in the White House must know that Trump cannot possibly deliver a compassionate message to a grieving family 2) You’d imagine they’d build other compensatory ways to send consolation messages: beautiful letters, gifts, visits from others 3) Don’t rely on the president to do something that he will certainly bungle in a way that will cause harm to himself, among others 4) Instead, the staff bungled the letter-writing - and so upped the ante to the disastrous expedient of a POTUS call to a grieving family 5) That tells me that either i) the WH is not honest with itself about the president’s incapacities or ii) cannot control them. 6) Think now about eg a nuclear crisis. If staff cannot act on knowledge, “This president cannot be trusted to make a phone call" . 7) How likely is it really that they can/will protect the country from the president’s other incapacities, including war & peace? - 30 -









Bob Boyd said...

"What marvelous timing, simply marvelous. And that's why she had her cell phone ready to record the audio she heard."

The buzzards are never late.

Dickin'Bimbos@Home said...

How did the Department of Justice keep the FBI probe into Russian bribery and extortion a secret from Congress since it began in 2009? The attorney for an undercover confidential witness claims that the DoJ threatened her client with prosecution if he blew the whistle. Victoria Toensing tells The Hill’s John Solomon and Alison Spann that she has memos to back up that claim, raising even more questions as to why this information never emerged until this week:

Obama's DOJ made threats to whistle blowers? Not possible. Obama is the second coming of Marx.

rehajm said...

I hope Senator Kid Rock breaks a liquor bottle over your head.

I'm stealing this and using it later as if it were mine.

Dickin'Bimbos@Home said...

DAvid Frum - LOL.

Unknown said...

After seeing bush, McCain, Romney savagely lied about by democrats and curl up in fetal positions, I could give a rats ass if trump is brash. I love him calling out the democrats and their media masters for the dishonest, lying hypocrites they are.

And putting CNN, MSNBC in the back of the press room, priceless.

AReasonableMan said...

wwww said...
That tells me that either i) the WH is not honest with itself about the president’s incapacities or ii) cannot control them.


Welcome to Bob Weinstein's world.

Ann Althouse said...

"There is nothing common sense about sitting back and letting people make up stories about you, twist your words, take statements out of context, lie about you, impune your character, try to destroy you. All of these things have been done to Trump on a daily basis. Only an idiot would sit still, keep silent and not fight back. Fighting back to protect yourself IS normal."

In this template, George W. Bush is abnormal.

What I'm saying is common sense is putting defending yourself against an insult over caring for a soldier's widow. Even people who defend themselves in ordinary circumstances will keep silent here, even in their own self-interest. That's the normal course. Trump goes to the extreme when it comes to speak or be silent choices.

I thought even he would keep silent and let what Wilson said blow over.

And he did wait a while. But his antagonists were making such a big deal out of it. Now, I still would have said: They're baiting you. They want you to give them more material like you did with the Khans. They would love love love you to disrespect a dead soldier. They are salivating at the prospect. That dead soldier is red meat.

AJ Lynch said...

I love Trump and his goal to drain the swamp but I am tired of the daily war of words and his punching down at every little Tom, Dick and Harry. He should let most of them peck at his ankles and ignore them.

I want a president who is not and does not want to be in the news every frigging day. Was the last one Reagan? It's ridiculous that for the last 20-30 years we can't get away from news focusing on whoever is the current president.

Susan said...

Yeah normal people do not call someone out for deliberately lying about what they said to a grieving family member. And don't even try to tell us he would have been given props for dignified silence.

This kind of petty crap is exactly why you got Trump.

Anonymous said...

I neither love nor hate President Trump. And I voted for him.

rehajm said...

What I'm saying is common sense is putting defending yourself against an insult over caring for a soldier's widow. Even people who defend themselves in ordinary circumstances will keep silent here, even in their own self-interest. That's the normal course.

Sure, go ahead and throw yourself into the pit full people of who have lectured Trump on the appropriate way to behave. We shall all marvel in your collective prescience.

Anonymous said...

What the Democratic party is missing in all these attempts to play "gotcha" on Trump is that the tactic is already effectively priced in against Trump. Trump's take-no-prisoners vulgar approach to politics was on display for so long in the campaign that anyone bothered by it presumably didn't vote for him last year. The flip side is that people who still voted for him anyway aren't likely to be swayed by any further examples of Trump being Trump.

What isn't fully priced in however is how bad all these breaches of etiquette and ridiculous press attempts to get Trump reflect on the Democrats and the media. A voter in the middle, who cares little for politics or ideology, sees Trump still being Trump, but sees poor manners and behavior from the left that they might not be used to seeing. On balance, that probably hurts the left more than Trump.

Khesanh 0802 said...

George Bush was not "abnormal", but I think he missed all his marketing courses at Business School. His failure to fight back against the misleading accusations against him essentially cost him his second term and set us up for Obama. Bush is a good guy with great instincts, but a lousy marketer. Unlike Trump, Bush allowed the "other side" to set the terms of the debate. Trump won't allow that and, though he often sets my teeth on edge, I have to admire that he will not let negative or derogatory or, God forbid, false comments lie.

MikeR said...

'We should be praising his family, not insulting them'
'instead of calling me a liar and claiming everyone else in the car is a liar'
Congresswomen, the only being called a liar is you. The only one being insulted is you.'
Way to go making political hay out of a grieving family.

Fabi said...

LLR sperg gotta sperg.

mezzrow said...

I guess the question is which side is more likely to REQUIRE you to love him? Or REQUIRE you to hate him?

"which of dese?" - Charley Partanna

Dickin'Bimbos@Home said...

No matter how clumsy Trump is, and he is at times - the fact that we said NO to 100% corruption is still the best choice we had.

tcrosse said...

No Normal Person would wish to be President.

rehajm said...

You mess with the bull you get the horns. It's a New York thing.

BDNYC said...

I think he had to respond given how he fights back about everything. Trump is Trump. He has to stay on brand.

His combativeness may deter some, but it surely encourages others who wish to elevate their profiles by sparring with the President of the United States. I couldn't stand Obama and how frequent interventions and meddling outside of the realm of politics, but Trump is worse. He makes everything about himself and his opponents don't want to cede any territory to him, so they make everything about him too, but in a bad way.

I really miss George W. Bush. He was a kind man and a great leader, unlike Trump and Obama. Our last two presidents have been self-absorbed douchebags. I hope the Left can look back on Bush's presidency and feel some shame for how badly they misjudged him and his character.

Franklin said...

Odds are that he said something akin to this: "[H]e was a true patriot and knew the risks, but it still hurts anyway." And the Democrats have twisted it.

I agree that Trump may have avoided the name because La David is unusual and he didn't want to offend.

Trump may be a boor, but I doubt he's stupid and certainly not stupid enough nor boorish enough to say something like the Democrats are saying he did.

Dickin'Bimbos@Home said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Dickin'Bimbos@Home said...

Trump trips over his words = WWIII.
Got that.

Harvey Weistien caught with his pants down/rape/potted plants = silence from leftist Jimmy Kimmel, and almost everyone else.

Clintons made mega bucks off secret Obama Russian deals = complete silence from the corrupt mainstream press.

Khesanh 0802 said...

Just think of the narrative that would be created by the MSM if Trump did not fight back. It is absolutely essential that someone answer the smears and falsehoods of the CNNs of the world. Trump has decided he's the guy for the job and I think he's right. He has essentially neutralized the MSM in the eyes of the public.

In this case someone is, perhaps, distorting what was a commendable act by the president. I, fortunately, only had to write one consolation letter to the parents of a dead Marine. I hated it. I suffered over what to say, did my best to get out of it. I can't imagine what I would have done if I actually had to talk to the parents. I, most likely, would have sounded like a blithering idiot.

Lyle said...

I don't think it is weird. If only the women of Hollywood would tweet like Trump.

Hari said...

Eventually, people will realize what they are signing up for when the take cheap shots at Trump (as opposed to expressing substantive disagreement).

Gordon said...

I don't love or hate Trump. I voted for him. Would I rather he didn't tweet some of the stuff he does? Sure. I thought it was crazy for him to start a Twitter fight with Mika and Joe during the week he had CNN on the ropes for fake news.

But then I see the reaction of the progressives, and I think, eh.

Nonapod said...

Aren't the overwhelming majority of people aware that this is all just a silly game of political gotcha? I mean, at this point are their still people who aren't looking at this in an at least 1 level down meta fashion (not thinking about the actual events but thinking about the reasons behind the events and the tactics being employed)? Why are people still pretending to be naive?

Trump said a thing to a war widow that could be (debatably) construed as insensitive and careless. Then a Democrat congresswoman cynically seizes an opportunity to use this war widow as a political prop to advance her own career as well as help her party. Who's the villain here?

The Cracker Emcee Activist said...

Once again progressives imply that Black people have no agency. He did know what he was getting into, and they dishonor him by suggesting otherwise.

Michael K said...

How likely is it really that they can/will protect the country from the president’s other incapacities, including war & peace? -

Poor David. I used to read his blog and even exchanged emails. He got angry because NRO did not invite to go on the 2008 cruise, free of course.

He has been cozying up to the left ever since.

He and Kristol are going to have to decide what they do next year.

The Cracker Emcee Activist said...

Althouse's "LaDavid" query was hilarious. Unintentionally, I'm sure.

roesch/voltaire said...

I am. waiting for the "proof" and a statement from the widow, but. given his recent procrastination in sending a letter from the WH golf cart, and his outright lies about the previous presidents actions towards the families of those killed in service. Trump doesn't have much credibility beyond another fake news tweet.

Khesanh 0802 said...

@BDNYC I miss George Bush too. His was a class act. However, he was not a great leader. Witness the essential failure of his second term. Bill Clinton was a better leader because he was able to connect with people and make them believe in him. ( Bill is an unprincipled shit, but an incredibly able politician.) George, at best, would have been in the broad middle of any group of leaders in -training; neither great nor horrible. George is a nice guy - we know what Leo Durocher said about nice guys.

Michael K said...

"Once again progressives imply that Black people have no agency. "

There is an interesting passage in one of WEB Griffin's novel about Army Special Forces in Africa that is similar to this case.

Johnson was president then and there was no expectation of any personal communication from him.

The commander of SF met the family. It may have been based on a true incident as so many of Griffin's novels are.

Bob Boyd said...

Back about the time Trump was finishing off Ted Cruz, I came to the realization I have no idea what Trump should or shouldn't do and say.

Michael K said...

his outright lies about the previous presidents actions towards the families of those killed in service. Trump doesn't have much credibility beyond another fake news tweet.

RV still enthralled by his black Jesus. How many calls did he make, RV?

brylun said...

Reading this blog long enough, it is my distinct impression that Althouse does not let any inaccuracies about her remain uncorrected.

Amadeus 48 said...


"They would love love love you to disrespect a dead soldier."

Yup. Did he do that? He attacked a Dem congresswoman who was on the call(!!!) and characterized it to the press (!!!) in a way that attacked Trump (!!!).

What is wrong with these people? Trump is certainly not my cup of tea, but he fights, he has always fought, and he always will fight. But what about the congresswoman? And the press? If Trump isn't what they say he is, then what are they?

Big Mike said...

Did she lie?

Of course she did. She's a Democrat.

Who knows?

He does. I imagine that the conversation was recorded.

What I'm saying is common sense is putting defending yourself against an insult over caring for a soldier's widow. Even people who defend themselves in ordinary circumstances will keep silent here, even in their own self-interest.

The widow is allowing her grief and her husband's death to be used as a cheap political shot. I respect her husband, and I honor his courage. I have no sympathy for the widow at all. She forfeited all the sympathy she should be receiving from a nation grateful for him and for his sacrifice.

You don't have to like it, Althouse, but there it is.

Michael K said...

"Bill is an unprincipled shit, but an incredibly able politician."

It often is related. Read the Caro biography of Johnson, like I did.

Johnson was an incredibly able politician and everyone knew it. He was also an absolute asshole.

Big Mike said...

A world where Chuck has his head out of his ass and Sgt. Johnson is still alive would be a better world than the one we have. But you would not catch Chuck trotting down to the recruiter's office to enlist. That's for men with some manliness.

Chuck said...

Althouse posits this comment as basically true:
"There is nothing common sense about sitting back and letting people make up stories about you, twist your words, take statements out of context, lie about you, impune your character, try to destroy you. All of these things have been done to Trump on a daily basis. Only an idiot would sit still, keep silent and not fight back. Fighting back to protect yourself IS normal."

I'd never want to take an inflexible position that Trump has never been misquoted or mischaracterized.

But wow, what a presumption! Most of what has gotten Trump into trouble is not the odd misquote or mischaracterization; it is the bold utterance in front of live television cameras, and in the president's own typed Twitter comments.

Donald Trump claimed that there was something suspicious about Obama's birth and that he had private investigators finding amazing things about it.

Donald Trump claimed that vaccines caused beautiful little children to become autistic.

Donald Trump said that he preferred veterans and heroes who weren't captured.

Donald Trump called for a ban on all Muslims entering the United States until our leaders can figure out what the hell is going on.

Donald Trump claimed that his 306 electoral votes were the most since Reagan, and then the most Republican votes since Reagan when a reporter called him on it.

Donald Trump said, “If you look at President Obama, and other presidents, most of them didn’t make calls, a lot of them didn’t make calls."

Those are among the most normal, least insane lies from Trump. There are the insane lies, where the record of Trump's lying is again, uh, recorded. Like the John Baron tapes I mentioned in my comment above.

But the unending blather of routine lies from Trump, about health care reform, about the size of his inauguration crowd, the comments of Judge Gorsuch to Senator Blumenthal, etc. Maybe it's just too hard to keep up with all of them.

But in no way, Professor Althouse, can anyone credibly claim that Donald Trump's problem with the press is one of mischaracterization or misquoting. NOBODY NEEDS TO TWIST TRUMP'S WORDS TO FIND HIS RECORD OF LIES. Trump's lies are regularly a matter of record; his own undisputed words.

Molly said...

Eaglebeak


No, not normal. That's why he won. He hasn't disappointed.

Sebastian said...

"They want you to give them more material like you did with the Khans. They would love love love you to disrespect a dead soldier. They are salivating at the prospect. That dead soldier is red meat." They don't realize that the right sees through their phony ploys, knew exactly what they were doing with the Khans, completely discounts their use of dead soldiers after Obama, and only ends up hating them more, solidifying base support for Trump in spite of Trump.

There's a war going on. I get that some sensitive people don't want to take sides. I get that they dislike the accidental leader of one side. I considered him a crude clown myself. But there is a war going on. Sideline neutrality its the luxury of retired law professors. The rest of us, who have a slightly higher stake in the outcome, must choose sides. I know which side I'm on.

Quaestor said...

Normal is an interesting word. Every mother longs to hear confirmation that her child is "normal" during the first year or two of life. Is my baby healthy? Relax, your baby is an entirely normal neonate — fingers and toes add up to 20, the head is bit soft, but firming up, and her lungs — just listen to her ball! I'm so worried. Baby is 11 months old today and she still is crawling! Relax, some perfectly normal children don't walk until they're 16 or 17 months old.

Five or six years later "normal" takes on a new character. My Jessica is half the way through her first year of school. I'm concerned about her academic performance Relax, Jessica is perfectly normal NORMAL?! Whaddaya mean by that? That's her IQ is 100? I'll have you know that I'm a talented and successful artist and that Jessica's dad is in Mensa. Normal my foot. By genetics alone, she should be a full standard deviation to the right of the norm at least!

As a collector of brains, I've made a study of normality as it pertains to the encephalization quotient. Abby Someone, the brain unfortunately used by Herr Fronkensteen in his misbegotten creation was definitely not normal. On the other hand neither was the noodle belonging to the late Hans Delbrück, the intended donor. My studies lead me to conclude that there are three categories of zombiechow generally: The normal — the graue Substanz of the typical schlub, i.e, most of us, like it or not. the abnormal, the kind hunched back lab techs always seem to acquire regardless of how well-trained. And, finally, the exceptional. It takes an exceptional brain to drain a swamp.

Matthew Sablan said...

I'd rather he just produce the proof, with apologies to the wife of the deceased Soldier, explaining that he is doing this due to the lies of the Congresswoman involved.

Or, maybe get the wife's permission.

But, frankly, I don't care about he-said, she-said about what he-said.

Matt said...

There was a time when a 74-year old African-American congresswoman would say something stupid and everybody would just smile weakly and change the subject. There was a time when a football player would mouth off about racial justice and do some sort of lame protest and everybody would just nod and smile. Heck, there was a time when students could protest and shut things down on campus in the name of social justice and everybody would just say how brave they are (and roll their eyes while walking away).

It seems to me that those days are over. For the people like Frederica Wilson who didn't realize everybody was just humoring them, it's going to be a tough transition.

rehajm said...

Althouse's "LaDavid" query was hilarious.

A sequined cowboy hat wearing elected official could easily characterize it as racist.

rehajm said...

Of course we should all counsel that characterization should go unchallenged.

Mark Jones said...

"After seeing bush, McCain, Romney savagely lied about by democrats and curl up in fetal positions...."

Exactly. The traditional Republican response to slanderous accusations from Democrats is to curl up in a fetal position, cover their heads, and hope the Democrats stop kicking them eventually.

Trump's response is to raise his fists and say, "I can do this all day."

AReasonableMan said...

Chuck is right that a large fraction of the country has tuned Trump out at this point and view anything he says as unlikely to be true. But, a smaller fraction of the country are still willing to buy into the Trump deal, a decidedly mixed bag, and nothing is likely to change this calculus for them any time soon. Consequently, harping endlessly about Trump's myriad flaws is an unproductive exercise, at least in this setting.

Kevin said...

Now, I still would have said: They're baiting you. They want you to give them more material like you did with the Khans. They would love love love you to disrespect a dead soldier. They are salivating at the prospect. That dead soldier is red meat.

So Trump went the other way and impugned the Congresswoman instead. Brilliant!

What's the media to do now? Are they going to go to widow in her time of grief and make her the arbiter in a "he said/she said"? Are they going to double down on the Congresswoman's account, calling Trump an outright liar but knowing that Trump may have made a recording which contradicts it?

Or, more likely, are they just going to keep repeating the claim as if Trump hasn't countered it, leaving more of their reputation as unbiased news reporters on the editing room floor?

Trump knows the fight is not with the widow or even the Congresswoman. It's with the media that chose to take her account and make it front-page news without asking the White House for a comment.

The ball is in the media's court and they're probably not even aware of it.

Gahrie said...

What I'm saying is common sense is putting defending yourself against an insult over caring for a soldier's widow. Even people who defend themselves in ordinary circumstances will keep silent here, even in their own self-interest. That's the normal course.

In a perfect world, this would be true. In this world, the media and the rest of the Left are going to savage Trump no matter what he does....just like they savaged Bush no matter what he did. Until the media and the rest of the Left prove they are willing to honor standards of decency, honesty, fairness and civility, being "good" is nothing but weakness.

Trump goes to the extreme when it comes to speak or be silent choices.

As extreme as lying to the family of a fallen soldier while standing next to his coffin? Why was she able to get away with that?

Kevin said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Chuck said...

Sebastian said...
...

There's a war going on. I get that some sensitive people don't want to take sides. I get that they dislike the accidental leader of one side. I considered him a crude clown myself.

So, what; there is a war going on, and Trump is your Lieutenant Calley? A criminal bastard but he's our criminal bastard?

We agree on one thing for sure; Trump is a crude clown. Actually there are two things we agree on, insofar as I presume that we both voted for Trump. In my case, as the least-worst alternative. You too on that?

Gahrie said...

Chuck is right that a large fraction of the country has tuned Trump out at this point and view anything he says as unlikely to be true.

This is true of every public figure, especially politicians.

Gahrie said...

So, what; there is a war going on, and Trump is your Lieutenant Calley?

No...he's our General Patton.

Kevin said...

Consequently, harping endlessly about Trump's myriad flaws is an unproductive exercise, at least in this setting.

Nevertheless, Chuck persisted...

Chuck said...

Gahrie said...
What I'm saying is common sense is putting defending yourself against an insult over caring for a soldier's widow. Even people who defend themselves in ordinary circumstances will keep silent here, even in their own self-interest. That's the normal course.

In a perfect world, this would be true. In this world, the media and the rest of the Left are going to savage Trump no matter what he does....just like they savaged Bush no matter what he did...

Hey, who needs a biased and dishonest left-wing media to attack Republicans, when we've got Steve Bannon? Isn't Bannon doing most of the Bush-bashing these days?

Dust Bunny Queen said...

Althouse: What I'm saying is common sense is putting defending yourself against an insult over caring for a soldier's widow. Even people who defend themselves in ordinary circumstances will keep silent here, even in their own self-interest. That's the normal course. Trump goes to the extreme when it comes to speak or be silent choices.

True. Trump could be more circumspect in picking his battles and in the level of his responses.

However, he is constantly being bombarded by these ridiculous, twisted, distorted and lying attacks. How long is someone supposed to just sit and take it? Do we want a leader who will do like Bush; sit silently while being vilified and never fight back?

Do we WANT normal when 'normal' has been shown to be a failure? Being 'normal' also means being predictable. The UN-predictable, unusual responses to situations like Korea, Iran, and in bucking the scripted kabuki theater of Washington DC actually give Trump an advantage.

The unpredictable, turning over the applecart mode of operation is WHY Trump was elected.

IMO

Matthew Sablan said...

Honestly, Trump *has* to fight. Romney didn't, and Candy Crowley and Obama pulled a fast one on him on live TV. McCain didn't, and the Democrat senators stabbed him in the back after asking him to come back, only to laugh about how he came back to help.

Sorry. If the Congresswoman lied, Trump *has* to punch back for the same reason Bush should have asked for the baby cannibals of Katrina to be brought up on charges.

narayanan said...

and if the President stands for USA in the eyes of the world - who sends a better message - silent fortitude = timorous vs aggressive response = don't mess with USA

Gahrie said...

Hey, who needs a biased and dishonest left-wing media to attack Republicans, when we've got Steve Bannon? Isn't Bannon doing most of the Bush-bashing these days?

What's worse? Someone who spends his days obsessed with attacking the current Republican president, or someone who spends his time attacking a former Republican president?

mezzrow said...

Reading this blog long enough, it is my distinct impression that Althouse does not let any inaccuracies about her remain uncorrected.

My observation says rarely, but not never. Still, this is a great point. It's all about where you pick your spots to just let it go. I know I let a lot more go than Althouse does. Althouse knows she lets a lot more go than Donald Trump does, but she doesn't have worldwide progressivism in a manic hate-fest with her marked out as enemy #1.

Francisco D said...

Chuck,

Can you tell the difference between a lie and a mistake?

If you win 306 electoral votes and state that is the biggest win since Reagan, isn't there a record to check? Can that be a lie when there is a record, even if you are known as an egotistical blowhard and self-promoter?

Hatred of Trump has caused the loss of common logic to many of those afflicted with TDS.

chuck said...

> Chuck is right that a large fraction of the country has tuned Trump out at this point ...

No, Chuck is wrong. Trump is far too entertaining to tune out, and the Democrats are still obsessed with everything Trump tweets.

AReasonableMan said...

Dust Bunny Queen said...
he is constantly being bombarded by these ridiculous, twisted, distorted and lying attacks.


There were multiple witnesses to this conversation. Currently they are providing a uniform account of Trump's statements. And, honestly, are those statements really out of character for Trump? Frum is exactly right that this was a failure to adequately manage the president's limitations. Another own goal.

Unknown said...

“I hasten to add that Trump knew what he was signing up for, too.”

Yes, he has failed miserably as POTUS.

“But Trump — the man is not normal — did not take the common-sense approach and keep silent.”

Yes he is not normal. It seems to have taken a long time for you to recognize this.

Matthew Sablan said...

"Currently they are providing a uniform account of Trump's statements."

-- They are? Unless something's changed, it was only the Congresswoman last I heard.

roesch/voltaire said...

Michael K I knew Jesus was Semitic and a person of color but I didn't know he was black-- perhaps you are confusing him with the Black Madonna? In any case I put an S after President because I was referring to Bush, Clinton and Obama as they all made frequent phone calls to the families but of course not the everyone of the hundreds that occurred on their watch. Perhaps you are the one too enthralled with the orange haired blow hard to comb back your ideological blinders?

Michael K said...

"What's the media to do now? Are they going to go to widow in her time of grief and make her the arbiter in a "he said/she said"?"

No, they have gotten the mother to say Trump "disrespected" her son.

This is a shameless as chuck and ARM and that is saying something.

Unknown said...

“Do we WANT normal when 'normal' has been shown to be a failure? Being 'normal' also means being predictable.”

Jesus. “Do we WANT normal” POTUS? What a abnormal question. This is the Presidency, not a fucking reality show. There are nukes to consider.

Matthew Sablan said...

Ah, I see that they do have someone else saying Trump said that.

Sorry. If Trump has the tapes, he has to release them now.

Sucks for the family who has to suffer over this if they were lying, but now the public has to know. Either Trump or the Congresswoman are lying, time for us to find out who.

Chuck said...

Gahrie said...
...
...the current "Republican" president...

FIFY.

Michael K said...

"Obama as they all made frequent phone calls to the families "

I'm sure you mist have a link to back this up. Here's mine.

At points in the Obama Administration, families of fallen soldiers expressed frustration with the White House condolence letters, with one father calling it "impersonal." In late 2010, the family of a soldier who was killed in action reached out to the White House and said he was told that “Obama did not regularly make phone calls to the families of fallen soldiers.” The story was picked up by the conservative media.

Your turn.

Bad Lieutenant said...

Michael K said...
Poor chuck. I'll bet you spent half a morning on that essay and we will all scroll by without reading because we know what it says,.
10/18/17, 9:33 AM


Like you said, I did t look,because his words are not worth reading. Was it his last will and testament? Because he said something about wanting to die, earlier.

Pr Mark Daniels said...

The White House issued that calibrated statement last evening saying that they didn't divulge details of conversations between the president and the families of the fallen. Then Trump tweeted that he has proof of what he said, presumably a recording that he seemed willing to let everyone hear.

It's not the first time that the White House and the president have said different things on the same topics, of course. (Not the first time either that Mr. Trump claimed to have proof about conversations which, in the past, he's not produced.) But this incident is different, I think, because it has to do with the grief of a family whose loved one lost his life in service to his country.

The whole story is sad and I think that both the congresswoman and the president have politicized the deaths of the four soldiers in Niger.

Unknown said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Chuck said...

Matthew Sablan said...
Ah, I see that they do have someone else saying Trump said that.

Sorry. If Trump has the tapes, he has to release them now.

Sucks for the family who has to suffer over this if they were lying, but now the public has to know. Either Trump or the Congresswoman are lying, time for us to find out who.

Next up; the Trump tax returns. Right after the completion of the audit. There are of course the 2016 tax returns (no audit, right?) that could be released any time. Just like the returns under audit could be released.

I'm just trying to stack up all the lies in order, Matthew.

Matthew Sablan said...

Unknown: WaPo says they were quoting the deceased's mother:

"Johnson’s mother, Cowanda Jones-Johnson, told The Washington Post on Wednesday that she was in the car during the call from the White House and that “President Trump did disrespect my son and my daughter and also me and my husband.”"

Freder Frederson said...

However, he is constantly being bombarded by these ridiculous, twisted, distorted and lying attacks.

How do you know that it is not Trump that is the liar? He has said many things that are simply not true and easily proved false. His default position seems to be to lie.

PackerBronco said...

If Trump does respond and denies it, he's a horrible person.
If Trump does respond and admits it, he just confirms he's a horrible person.
If Trump doesn't respond at all, his silence confirms it and he's a horrible person.

Conclusion: Trump is a horrible person.

2nd Conclusion: A widow's tears "trumps" everything unless the widow is attacking a Democrat, in which case they're just kooks.

Bad Lieutenant said...

George is a nice guy - we know what Leo Durocher said about nice guys.

If you wished to, you could say that gwb may not have had the kind of experience of taking and giving abuse to prepare him for the role. Although and Richards kind of next that hard to swallow.

Assrat said...

I have no idea if Trump's telling the truth or not, but I'm a bit surprised that claiming someone else lied about what you said is somehow abnormal behavior.

Bad Lieutenant said...

Although the experience with Ann Richards and Molly Ivins types kind of makes that hard to swallow.

PackerBronco said...

“But Trump — the man is not normal — did not take the common-sense approach and keep silent.”
========

How was silence received when Rex Tillerson refused to comment on what he said about Trump?

roesch/voltaire said...

This from the Washington Times:This was real, it was personal, it was so important to us,” said Thya Merz, whose son Marine Lance Cpl. Julian Brennan was killed Jan. 24 in Afghanistan.
The letter was signed “Barack,” Ms. Merz told The Washington Times.
“Not ‘president,’ just his first name, and it just felt like, OK, my son has been acknowledged,” she said.
Mr. Obama personalizes each letter, asking staffers to gather details about the service member, such as their hometown and where they were stationed, a White House aide said. The letters are sent to parents and spouses, and sometimes children of the fallen troops.
The president writes the notes by hand, then the letters are typed before he adds his signature.

The Cracker Emcee Activist said...

"The president writes the notes by hand, then the letters are typed before he adds his signature."

Good God. If you seriously believe this, about any President, you are naive beyond telling.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

Johnson’s mother, Cowanda Jones-Johnson, told The Washington Post on Wednesday that she was in the car during the call from the White House and that “President Trump did disrespect my son and my daughter and also me and my husband.”"

Did she "take a knee" while making that statement? Did they all link arms?

I feel disrespected too. Waaah.

Unknown said...

“Did she "take a knee" while making that statement? Did they all link arms?”

This sounds psychotic.

roesch/voltaire said...

Yes I do Crack-- a practice used by many who think that they can think more clearly, usually older folks, writing first by hand rather than the computer. But I am quoting the Washington Times a conservative leaning paper which was no friend to Obama so I guess they are naive?

Matthew Sablan said...

So, here's a question.

Say Trump produces an audio where he says nothing of the sort.

How many anti-Trumpers will assume the audio was tampered with?

Dust Bunny Queen said...

“Did she "take a knee" while making that statement? Did they all link arms?”

This sounds psychotic.

Are you 'triggered'?
>:-O

Unknown said...

Trump also said he had audio tape of Comey, where is it? How you sycophants continue to defend this “fucking moron” ( per Tillerson) is beyond me.

William said...

I understand that Harvey Weinstein's wife had a line of clothes called Marchesa. A lot of stars wore those clothes on the red carpet. She's having a lot of trouble moving those clothes now. I have a win-win for everybody. Trump should buy up all those clothes at a discounted but reasonable price. When someone like Fredericka or Megyn or Kathy makes an unfair statement about him, he should send them a gown by Marchesa. Alterations may be necessary, but what woman wouldn't want some freebie couture clothing. This is the kind of peace offering that might help to restore good relations between Trump and his many feminist critics. I would love to see Fredericka in a sequined cowboy hat and a gown by Marchesa. It would send a strong statement of solidarity with wronged women everywhere. Did Marchesa design pantsuits?

LilyBart said...

Ann Althouse said...

In this template, George W. Bush is abnormal.


In hindsight, many from the Bush administration said this approach was likely a mistake.

I have no trouble believing Trump's words might have been inelegant (he's known for that), but well meaning. It can be hard to say the 'right thing' to someone in serious grief. And his audience might have been ready to take offense at Trump (My experience is that grief includes anger, and I've seem many people focus their anger on a specific person during their grieving process). Still, Trump really should have just said he regretted that his words hurt the family , that he meant well, he was deeply sorry for their loss, and should have used better phrasing.

Snark said...

Trump also said he had audio tape of Comey, where is it? How you sycophants continue to defend this “fucking moron” ( per Tillerson) is beyond me."

The abyss long ago started staring back. Word waltzing around the sociopath at this point has to be the biggest surrender of intellectual and moral currency I've ever seen.

Matthew Sablan said...

Unknown: The problem is that we've also had leaks about things that WERE proven categorically false. If the leakers/anti-Trump reports had a consistent, high accuracy rate, I'd be more inclined to believe them. They don't. They're about as spotty/accurate as Trump.

So, I don't have an opinion on if Trump is telling the truth, or the other person is.

Put up, shut up, for both parties.

Khesanh 0802 said...

Lost in all this is the question: "What the hell are we supposed to be doing in Nigeria and why?" I hate to sound like Cookie, but I had no idea we had a commitment in Nigeria and would, truly, like to know how and why we have it. The other aspect of this is that the 4 soldiers were sent out on a mission that was seriously under prepared for the opposition that they met. There was clearly a failure at the command level that ended up with these guys on a platoon sized foot patrol being ambushed by a company sized mobile force armed heavily with automatic weapons. Other than one article in the WSJ and this kerfluffle I have seen nothing else about it.

Michael K said...

He has said many things that are simply not true and easily proved false. His default position seems to be to lie.

Field Marshal Freder has proof of the lies. It's right here in TPM and Daily Kos.

Michael K said...

The other aspect of this is that the 4 soldiers were sent out on a mission that was seriously under prepared for the opposition that they met.

The West Point "open letter" has me very concerned about the state of the Army.

The SF guys are the best we have but they are not that many and are seriously over deployed. I read that ROE are better but the Army is badly stretched.

I examine military recruits and the Army seems to waiver every recruit rejected for medical issues. Even psych.

They are desperate for bodies. Even the Navy, with all its troubles, does not give waivers like the Army does.

The Marines and the Coast Guard have the strictest rules.

The Cracker Emcee Activist said...

"But I am quoting the Washington Times a conservative leaning paper which was no friend to Obama so I guess they are naive?"

No, they're merely repeating the rote jive the White House functionary is spewing. It's not a partisan issue. If you think a President is personally writing notes to the families of dead soldiers you're out of your treehouse.

LilyBart said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
exhelodrvr1 said...

Saying "He knew what he signed up for" is a compliment, and those, or very similar words, are frequently said when a firefighter, policeman, or military member loses their life.

They knew what they signed up for, and they went ahead and did their duty.

It's ridiculous to view it as a disparaging comment.

Michael K said...

"It's ridiculous to view it as a disparaging comment."

I wonder if the Congresswoman edited what was said as I would see no reason for Trump to object to this.

This may be the black radical movement getting into the military which has been the most egalitarian and racially neutral organization in America. It will be very harmful if it gets a hold.

LilyBart said...


exhelodrvr1 said...It's ridiculous to view it as a disparaging comment.

The family says they found offense and pain in this wording, and I regret that it added to their pain. However, the #resistance trying to make hay from this is really shockingly tacky. (Trumps defense of himself is ham-fisted as well).

Chuck said...

PackerBronco: Trump is a horrible person because this is about his 1,017th clusterfuck of lies and obfuscations. No other reason.

You then asked how Rex Tillerson was received, when he essentially went "no comment" upon being challenged as to whether he called Trump a moron. And the answer is, Tillerson was treated with respect. People thought that Tillerson established himself as someone who would not lie for Trump's benefit. People were reminded that Tillerson was an Eagle Scout. Everybody knew what Tillerson's polite response meant. Most particularly what it meant for Tillerson.

Chuck said...

Blogger Michael K said...
He has said many things that are simply not true and easily proved false. His default position seems to be to lie.

Field Marshal Freder has proof of the lies. It's right here in TPM and Daily Kos.

I've listed at least a half dozen recorded, bald-faced Trump lies on this one comments page.

Ann Althouse said...

If your husband died in battle and the President of the United States called to talk to you about it, would you put it on speakerphone?

I have a feeling that the people setting up the call for the President would make sure the connection is good and not on a speakerphone. And wouldn't they make sure it's a good time for the widow and she's in a private setting? How did the Congresswoman get included? It doesn't add up (unless the widow is herself deliberately going political).

Gahrie said...

I've listed at least a half dozen recorded, bald-faced Trump lies on this one comments page.

Congratulations! Be sure to mention the fact to all of your Leftwing buddies at the next cocktail party.

chuck said...

> unless the widow is herself deliberately going political

Bingo. That is my first thought also. We will see ...

Mark said...

If he has proof, produce it.

If you do not intend to provide proof then do not use it as some sort of 'proof'

grackle said...

I thought even he would keep silent and let what Wilson said blow over.

Drawing upon Scott Adams: Everyone is watching a different movie. The most accurate movie is the movie that better predicts events and behavior. This movie assumes that Trump would not fight back. It also appears to assume that Trump, not the politician, is lying. Perhaps the movie is a little off and needs adjustment.

The family must have alerted the politician that the Trump phone call was coming. When driving to the off-loading of your son’s body does the average person think to invite a politician along for the ride? A speaker phone, too. All very convenient and tidy. I think it was a set-up

It’s a given that the politician has an anti-Trump agenda; could the family also have an agenda? I’ll wait to see how this develops without assuming Trump is lying. I’m waiting to see if the politician continues to pound Trump. Trump has promised to provide the “proof” if she does.

pacwest said...

"unless the widow is herself deliberately going political"

Given the past record, that would be a logical assumption. How did the widow have enough time to involve the congresswoman? Or maybe she just happened to be there coincidentally.

eddie willers said...

I'm sure Trump remembers Cindy Sheehan.

LilyBart said...

chuck said...
> unless the widow is herself deliberately going political


As she is the widow of a fallen soldier, you have to leave this possibility alone. It only makes things worse. Her grief is very real. The only thing Trump can (should!) do now is to say he is sorry that his words offended her, his condolences were sincerely meant.



pacwest said...

Word waltzing by the sociopaths of the MSM at this point has to be the biggest surrender of intellectual and moral currency I've ever seen.

FIFY

Dust Bunny Queen said...

As she is the widow of a fallen soldier, you have to leave this possibility alone.

Why?

Gahrie said...

As she is the widow of a fallen soldier, you have to leave this possibility alone. It only makes things worse. Her grief is very real.

How long until Code Pink and Cindy Sheehan show back up?

Big Mike said...

As she is the widow of a fallen soldier, you have to leave this possibility alone. It only makes things worse. Her grief is very real. The only thing Trump can (should!) do now is to say he is sorry that his words offended her, his condolences were sincerely meant.

No you don't. She politicized what was meant sincerely to honor her husband and his sacrifice. She herself has done nothing honorable and deserves no further sympathy.

Gahrie said...

As she is the widow of a fallen soldier, you have to leave this possibility alone.

Why?


Because if you don't, the media and the rest of the Left will say mean things about you.

Big Mike said...

When driving to the off-loading of your son’s body does the average person think to invite a politician along for the ride? A speaker phone, too. All very convenient and tidy. I think it was a set-up.

Only logical conclusion.

Snark said...

IIRC the call was taken in the car either on the way from or to the airport to meet the soldier's body. Is it unusual for congresspersons to accompany families in these circumstances? I wouldn't guess so, but I don't know. She may have put it on speakerphone so that other members of her family in the car could hear the President's words? Regardless, they are his words, which he apparently sees the need to vehemently deny. He, and more than a few of you, are grossly indefensible.

Gahrie said...

He, and more than a few of you, are grossly indefensible.

Is that a synonym for deplorable?

Chuck said...

Blogger Ann Althouse said...
If your husband died in battle and the President of the United States called to talk to you about it, would you put it on speakerphone?

I have a feeling that the people setting up the call for the President would make sure the connection is good and not on a speakerphone. And wouldn't they make sure it's a good time for the widow and she's in a private setting? How did the Congresswoman get included? It doesn't add up (unless the widow is herself deliberately going political).

Good lord, this is like reading Breitbart. Or perhaps Info Wars.

Snark said...

Yes, I'd say it's pretty deplorable to continue flailing for excuses and, for the love of Christ, "an interesting angle", every time this sociopathic boor dribbles out some new cruelty. And then, like clockwork, lies about it. Right to your self-indulgent faces.

brylun said...

How about the possibility that the family knew the Congresswoman and she sponsored the soldier's rise to a position in special forces, an elite organization with strict objective requirements that could be bypassed by political connections during Obama, because of the Congresswoman's connections to Obama? Maybe that's why the Congresswoman was on hand for the President's call...

Howard said...

chickenhawk is as chickenhawk does. Nobody "does" gold star family values like Trump... as long as they are peoples of colour.

Unknown said...

The call was taken in a limosene, which I assume the Congresswoman arraignedfor the family to go to Dover to claim the body.

Assrat said...

>Yes, I'd say it's pretty deplorable to continue flailing for excuses and, for the love of Christ, "an interesting angle", every time this sociopathic boor dribbles out some new cruelty

So I'm guessing they're on the right track?

brylun said...

"Joined the Army in equipment maintenance.
Moved from equipment maintenance to infantry.
From infantry to paratrooper.
From paratrooper to special forces."

People in the Army don't usually move so much, unless they have a sponsor...

Snark said...

Stop being the reflexive foot soldiers of a sociopath. It's gross.

Unknown said...

“Stop being the reflexive foot soldiers of a sociopath. It's gross.”

It’s gotten to be beyond deporable.

Assrat said...

>Stop being the reflexive foot soldiers of a sociopath. It's gross.

Are you twelve years old?

Michael K said...

" It doesn't add up (unless the widow is herself deliberately going political)."

This is why I mentioned that is black soldiers are going NFL on us that is very bad news.

The lefty trolls have no interest in national defense but some us do.

If the BLM thing is getting into the Army, and it did during Vietnam, we are in deep shit.

The black power people lied and lied about black soldiers having more casualties, etc and it was all lies.

The military and sports have been two good career paths for blacks. It's hard to believe they would assist on the destruction of those two pathways but it might be happening.

God help them if they do it.

Michael K said...

"she sponsored the soldier's rise to a position in special forces,"

It used to be, before Obama of course, that any attempt to use political influence on a military career resulted in your file being stamped "PI." and that was the end of your career,

Unknown said...
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Unknown said...

“The black power people lied and lied about black soldiers having more casualties, etc and it was all lies.”

Now begins the demonization of LaDavid Johnson and black Americans serving this country in order to bolster the white supremacist’s favorite President. You people are sick

Unknown said...

“If the BLM thing is getting into the Army, and it did during Vietnam, we are in deep shit.”

Then you’re in deep shit. As for the rest of us, we know how many minorities serve in the military and we honor them for it.

Howard said...

If the HNIC was still president, you republicans would be saying this was another Benghazi because the intel claimed it was a no-contact safe mission and they got jumped by ISIS without air support, would demand congressional hearings and call to fire Ash Carter.

Unknown said...

Why did it take Trump 12 days to even mention these soldiers KIA? Then mentioned it seemingly only to take a hit at Obama, which was a despicable lie.

Cassandra said...

Oh for Pete's sake.

It's hard to think of a higher compliment for any soldier, sailor, Marine, or airman than, "He knew exactly what he signed up for....yet he volunteered anyway".

How clueless do people have to be to think any active duty military person wants to be remembered as a helpless victim?

Trump often baffles me, but my husband and I listed to him talk about calling families on TV, and we both nodded our heads and said, "Duh. No President has time to call every family and even if he did, that wouldn't necessarily be smart or welcomed by the family." Trump's words were clumsily expressed, but essentially correct.

Another idiotic controversy fanned into flames by people who don't even begin to understand what makes most military folks tick.

I felt angry the whole time my husband was in Afghanistan because I truly didn't believe Obama cared about the military or was serious about winning. Maybe that was true, maybe it wasn't but it's how I felt. Had he called me to offer condolences on my husband's death, those emotions might have come pouring out (to my shame). That's a lot of pressure to put on a grieving widow. Better to send a letter that becomes part of family history.

Unknown said...

“I felt angry the whole time my husband was in Afghanistan because I truly didn't believe Obama cared about the military or was serious about winning.”

Others were happy and relieved Obama was President when their loved ones were in serving in Afghanistan because we knew he honored our military.

Yancey Ward said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
pacwest said...

"Others were happy and relieved Obama was President when their loved ones were in serving in Afghanistan because we knew he honored our military."

Hard to keep all the Unknowns staight, but you are joking here right? Please attach the snark tag to your previous comment. If not you did know Genghis Kerry was a SOS for him right?

Yancey Ward said...

One has to be seriously, seriously deranged to think Trump would intentionally insult a wife and mother of a fallen soldier during such a time. Occam's Razor is very, very useful here- having a Congresswoman from the opposite party "listening in" on this telephone call, and an African-American one at that, tells you all you really need to know to figure out what is going on here.

exiledonmainstreet said...


"Hard to keep all the Unknowns staight, but you are joking here right? Please attach the snark tag to your previous comment. If not you did know Genghis Kerry was a SOS for him right?"

That's Unknown Inga. She's the one with 257 daughters, half of whom served in the Marine Corp.

Obama "honored the military." That's a good one.

Unknown said...

“Hard to keep all the Unknowns staight, but you are joking here right? Please attach the snark tag to your previous comment. ”

There were even military members who voted for Obama WHILE they were serving in Afghanistan. Go figure.

chuck said...

> It's hard to believe they would assist on the destruction of those two pathways but it might be happening.

The left has screwed black people forever. The left wants cannon fodder, they don't care about the individuals, it's not as if the thought leaders suffer casualties. But if blacks let themselves be used there isn't much I can do about it.

Unknown said...

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/story?id=7272544&page=1

“President Obama swooped into Baghdad under a cloak of secrecy today, but his presence quickly turned into a raucous meeting with several hundred U.S. troops who cheered wildly when he told them it is time for Iraqis to take responsibility for their country.

By the time Air Force One was "wheels up" four hours later, the president has consulted with his top commander in Iraq, the president and prime minister of Iraq, and shook hands with dozens of delighted American soldiers who tried to photograph their commander-in-chief with cell phones.”

When is Trump going to Afghanistan?



Gahrie said...

Others were happy and relieved Obama was President when their loved ones were in serving in Afghanistan because we knew he honored our military.

When and how?

Unknown said...

https://youtu.be/-c8TVPsnrmc

Marines cheering President Obama on a visit to Camp Pendleton.

n.n said...

That Trump does not represent the status quo is a positive criterion and the first reason why he was chosen over his competitors.

That said, there are no mortal gods, but rather people who strive. Good luck!

n.n said...
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Steven Wilson said...

I'm with ExiledonMainStreet, Gspencer and others.

Don't like him, wouldn't choose to spend time with him, probably wouldn't even accept an invitation to play golf with him even he was picking up the tab: but like Lincoln with Grant, "I can't spare this man, he fights." I wish he would choose some of his fights more carefully, but it may be wisdom on his part to lash out at every criticism, especially the false ones. Bush the Younger chose to be a
pinata for the Democrats and they eventually wore his reputation down because the vast majority of the voting public only heard the negative side of the story.

Best of all, Trump seems to send people off the deep end. All that screaming and whimpering and temper tantrums doesn't help their cause. I think it actually serves to wake up a lot of otherwise indifferent people. They have a "That can't be right" moment and move on from there. But they don't move toward the crazies.

pacwest said...

Unkown, I stand corrected. I thought you meant honored them in the sense he was grateful for their service to the country rather than honoring them with his presence.

Unknown said...

“Best of all, Trump seems to send people off the deep end.”

Anyone who continues to defend this fucking moron (per Tillerson) has not yet moved out of the deep end.

“Unknown, I stand corrected. I thought you meant honored them in the sense he was grateful for their service to the country rather than honoring them with his presence.”

How has Trump honored the military?

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