NPR has a quote from his mother:
"I thought it had something to do with Trump. Trump's not a white supremacist," said Bloom, who became visibly upset as she learned of the injuries and deaths at the rally.NPR writes "she knew he was attending a rally in Virginia" but "didn't know it was a white supremacist rally." Notice the assumption that it's simply a fact that it was "a white supremacist rally." I'm not sure that's established. I don't think you can assume that everyone who attended that rally has a "white supremacist" ideology, but I think there's a big effort right now to lump the entire alt-right into that category. I think it's better to treat people as individuals and not throw them into stereotypes (especially if the stereotypes are going to be big and crude). To be carefully factually accurate, you shouldn't assume that a person from out of town who is driving a car is attending the rally.
"He had an African-American friend so ...," she said before her voice trailed off. She added that she'd be surprised if her son's views were that far right, according to the AP.
More from NPR:
In a photo posted to Twitter by the Anti-Defamation League and reported by BuzzFeed, a man who appears to be Fields Jr. can be seen brandishing a black shield handed out by the self-proclaimed fascist group Vanguard America.Are these 2 pictures of the same man?
I don't know. The second picture seems to have a sharply over-shaved space between the eyebrows. In the first picture, it's hard to see past the sunglasses, but the eyebrows may be more natural. The hair in photo #1 seems more squared off . The ears seem closer to the head in photo #2. Would he really have changed shirts? And don't men usually stick to one style of undershirt and not switch between a high and low necklines?
Those black shields may make people look like they're in the same group, but if the shields were being "handed out," then any lost soul might end up carrying something without knowing what the group that handed it out says it means. And it's just stupid cardboard held in a hand. Is "brandishing" really a sensibly journalistic word?
Plainly, no. To "brandish" is "To flourish, wave about (a sword, spear, dart, club, or other manual weapon) by way of threat or display, or in preparation for action" (OED). Even if it were a real shield and not a cardboard "mock up," a shield is not a weapon.
Let's carefully collect and examine evidence about James Alex Fields Jr. and about what happened in Charlottesville on Saturday. If you hate violence and hatred, don't take the kinds of mental shortcuts that are the machinery of violence and hatred. Let's be better than that.
ADDED: If the crowd had been right wing and the driver of the car could be connected to the left, I think the media would be imposing the mental illness template as quickly as it could.
Posts
342 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 342 of 342"so he accelerates backwards to get out"
Straight as an arrow. Whatever his motives he had just experienced a moderately severe frontal impact, he was almost certainly in a state of extreme agitation and probably in fear for his life, yet he reversed out like a Hollywood stunt driver. Weird.
"He wasn't driving behind those cars. "
So, he was in front of them ?
Come on. You're trying too hard. You lefties can't figure out when to shut up.
The cold civil war is here and you might start to think about where you want to be when it turns hot.
rhhardin said...
Just resist the news.
News will not replace us!
So, he was in front of them ?
No.
You look for the video yourself if you are interested. I simply described what I saw. You believe what you want to believe, and don't look for the evidence if you don't want to see it.
#1 in your list is subjective reasonableness.
Under the law, reasonable is what a prudent person in the same situation would do, a standard that is diametrically opposed to subjectivity.
And to be clear, all four self-defense standards must be met.
Remember Stephen all those cars were accelerating for no good reason but it was mainly little old ladies who thought they were hitting the brake pedal?
Me neither.
It’s nice to see so many defense attorneys popping up in the comments to take the side of this young, possibly psychotic right-winger -- he’s going to need them.
Wrong, Earnest Prole. It is a reasonably prudent person similarly situated. That is subjective.I
He gets to argue about his mental state to determine what is reasoable.
Bernard Goetz on Line 1.
"Mutaman - I don't understand the difficulty you have distinguishing between "advocate" and "supremacist"."
I don't know- maybe its the guys wearing white pointy hoods over their heads, maybe it the guys wearing the swastika armbands, maybe its the people shouting anti-Semitic slogans. But that's just me.
" . . . he’s going to need them."
Equally true whether he is guilty or he is innocent.
"It’s nice to see so many defense attorneys popping up in the comments to take the side of this young, possibly psychotic right-winger -- he’s going to need them."
And they all got their JDs at Trump University Law School. Except for Ann, and she's just trying for more clicks.
@wwww, the video shows a car accelerating from a dead stop and hitting the rear of of a car stopped by a crowd. Are we in agreement?
At that point in Charlottesville the narrow street he is on is one-way, and he cannot back up a short distance and turn down Main Street, because Main Street is blocked off for pedestrians only. We see him accelerate but we don't see what preceded it. Was he being threatened? Was he being assaulted? Was he legitimately in fear for his safety? There is nothing on that tape inconsistent with his panicking and driving forward in a desperate effort to escape.
It's definitely him. I think the shirt in the second picture is a county issued prison shirt. Maybe his other one was damaged or soiled, or taken as evidence?
Anyway, lest we forget, there have always been contentious and violent counter protests when the white nationalists demonstrate in many parts of the US. For a country that is supposed to be be built on the premise of white supremacy, we sure don't have any problem organizing counter protests that often dwarf the American Socialist White People's Party, or whatever it is they are calling themselves. As long as everything stays peaceful and within the law, I think that is awesome. The problem is we are increasingly OK with punching them or trying to run them down with a Blues Mobile.
https://youtu.be/XsxwhRiiWtc
Thanks, Cacimbo Cacimbo
I'm like mock turtle and Dr Weevil. I want the media to show me what happened and who was involved so I can decide for myself whether Trump;s response was adequate. Instead, the media only wants to tell me his response was not adequate.
Mutaman:
Were there any white pointy hoods at this rally? I haven't seen any. The few pictures I have seen claiming the Klan was in Charlottesville yesterday turned out to be from a rally at the Lee statue in Charlottesville five weeks before (July 8th). That was the Klan. This was Nazis. Try not to confuse the two, and try not to say things that aren't true.
There is nothing on that tape inconsistent with his panicking and driving forward in a desperate effort to escape.
At the end of the video, you can see the block above the pedestrian mall is all but empty of people.
He gets to argue about his mental state to determine what is reasonable.
He certainly does, which the jury will then compare against what a prudent person would do in the same situation. And if ramming crowds of protesters with cars is what prudent people do, we'd see dozens of similar videos each week.
@wwww, the video shows a car accelerating from a dead stop and hitting the rear of of a car stopped by a crowd. Are we in agreement?
No, we aren't in agreement. I don't know what video you're watching.
That car was not at a stop. One of the videos shows it speeding down 4th street.
It hits pedestrians at Water street.
Look, it's been years since I've been to Charlottesville, but I'm fairly sure Water Street is part of the pedestrian mall.
I want to underline that: Pedestrian Mall. parts are closed to traffic.
Here's maps of the mall, and a link to a WA Post article that shows the streets. I can't find the video that shows the car speeding in for a couple of blocks, but I'm sure it's been given to the police. Look around for that video if you're interested. Right now there's so much stuff on Charlottesville crowding the internet, I can't find the full clip. I've seen portions of the clip this morning, but not the whole thing.
Map of where the driver was in Charlottesville:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/fights-in-advance-of-saturday-protest-in-charlottesville/2017/08/12/155fb636-7f13-11e7-83c7-5bd5460f0d7e_story.html?utm_term=.b1595d962d27
Map of CHarlottesville's Pedestrian Mall:
http://www.downtowncharlottesville.net/find/category/food-and-drink
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Downtown_Mall
Sorry, it's entirely empty.
There's another car that hits people- a convertible. Right? I mean, he drove his car into the other car, which seems to be the car that hit and killed people.
My understanding is that post-Civil War the literati played a big role in glamorizing and rehabilitating former slave owning southern aristocracy. Reconstruction was sabotaged and Democrats gained influence. Intellectuals looked to the Continent for ideas supporting race theory and eugenics. And they were Democrats.
Correct or not?
250 years of crimes piled on lies to escape consequences of errors in the Constitution in transition from Declaration.
Which of you fascists think this accused criminal doesn't deserve defense counsel and a presumption of innocence?
I'd like to get a precise count.
@Mutamen, the sole difference between Hitler's Brown Shirts and the antifa are that Hitler's guys preferred brown shirts to black hoodies, and didn't try to hide their faces. I note that at a Hillary fundraiser Lady Gaga wore a near duplicate of an SS uniform, right down to a red arm band. Some of the alleged white supremacists yesterday might play at being neo-Nazis, but the people adopting Hitler's tactics are the antifa.
I don't feel sorry for the injured antifa, or even for Heather Heyer. They came looking to inflict violence. They found it.
I do feel sorry for the two state troopers who died in the crashed helo. But unless the helo was brought down by gun fire or accidental (or deliberate) collision with a drone, then adding their deaths to the total is incompetent journalism. Not that I expect any better in the US in the 21st century.
Something similar happened during Occupy DC (Trump's inauguration), Portland (keep it liberal), etc.; but, unexpectedly, not Salt Lake City.
"Sorry, that was a pedestrian mall, not a side street, but he still could see the crowd at the end well before he drove into it."
A pedestrian mall let that sink in all you deplorables that claimed they were holding up traffic and deserved what they got.
Earnest Prole:
You remain wrong on what the reasonable person similarly situated standard is. You do not seem capable of admitting it is a subjective standard. His unique circumstances based on his experiences will be considered by the jury to determine his understanding of reasonable.
Bernard Goetz is still holding.
"There's another car that hits people- a convertible. Right? I mean, he drove his car into the other car, which seems to be the car that hit and killed people."
Wrong. His car mowed down several people as he sped down the pedestrian mall, before it hit the car on front of him. Haven't you people watched any of the many different video views of this crime?
"but, if these bigoted, fringe folks were allowed to protest peacefully, I don't think this violence happens."
Gee. Ya think?
There's old UnknownInga82.
It's not closed to traffic, Inga. When last I was there I remember signs and lights and the rest to tell people and cars how to maneuver the dual use areas.
"Haven't you people watched any of the many different video views of this crime?"
We are busy watching videos of leftists calling for white genocide with no other leftists stepping up to tell them that mass murder on a societal scale might be inappropriate.
Probably because the left has defended or minimized the mass murder of millions over the past 100 years.
Wrong. His car mowed down several people as he sped down the pedestrian mall, before it hit the car on front of him. Haven't you people watched any of the many different video views of this crime?
I've watched some of them, but I see the car in front of him hit the woman who died. I feel really awful for whomever was driving that car.
Overhead view.
The Challenger is out of view but you can see the layout.
Water Street is not part of the pedestrian-only area. I'm pretty sure I'm watching the same video that you and everyone else is. The video starts with the Dodge accelerating from what anyone can plainly see is a dead stop or near-stop. But there is obviously a period of time before that video starts that is not shown. You would like to pretend that no one did anything to threaten the driver -- but that is not sustainable.
'
a convertible
It's a fake convertible top on a 4 door Cadillac Deville.
I wanted to say something rude about the huge, ugly tattoo on the back of the ass over teakettle guy, but he'd just been hit by a car and probably landed on his head, so I won't.
"Why is there always silence from the left on the violent Antifa?"
Because they support it.
Because it's the 'correct' type of violence in that it targets all the 'bad' people.
"Fight or Flight, perhaps."
From what I'm seeing in the video, a fight-or-flight reflex resolved either way would produce the same terrible result. There's no flight path.
I remember now where I saw "Maumee", where the suspect is from. The Maumee and Western is youtube famous for having had worst railroad track. Observe what it was like shortly after it became the Napolen, Defiance and Western a few years ago, which goes from Woodburn, Indiana, to Liberty Center, Ohio. From the direction of the shadows, you can tell cat is heading towards Maumee. Later on in the video, you can see cat from the side angle.
The part of the railroad from Maumee to Liberty Center is a trail now.
Big Mike, there was no one on the block from whence he came. You can see it at the end of the video when he backs up. He could clearly see down the hill that the street was blocked--by people with raised fist signs.
"Haven't you people watched any of the many different video views of this crime?"
A curious person can find them in mere seconds with a few keystrokes. It's always funny when smart people suddenly turn dumb when experiencing cognitive dissonance.
Bottom line...
A group of pretend Nazis and another group of pretend communists traveled to Charlottesville looking for a street fight, and found one. The police could have done us all a giant favor by directing them all into Scott Stadium, locking the gates, and letting them duke it out.
If we were lucky, very few would emerge.
City officials knew what was coming their way. UVA hospital cancelled all elective surgery for this weekend so as to ensure that sufficient beds would be available in the case of violent clashes. This is a small community of roughly 50,000 people. When UVA is out of session, traffic and activity downtown drops dramatically.
Police made a very unfortunate error in forcing the pretend Nazis to walk through the assembled pretend commies at the park when they declared the Nazi group an unlawful assembly. Providing a cordon for them to exit through, or dispersing the pretend commies could have spared the town a major headache.
The guy ramming other cars into the crowd is a separate, but related issue. If it can be demonstrated that he acted on instructions from event organizers, we'll have a legit conspiracy to discuss. Otherwise, he acted of his own accord.
Something that needs to sink in to Unknown's pathetic mind:
The guy was not driving on a pedestrian mall. He was driving on a public street (4th Street, approaching Water) that crosses the mall, a street which should have had only cars on it, but was in fact full of asshole pedestrians intentionally and illegally blocking it, shouting "Who owns the street? We own the street!". The two cars he hit should have been going 25 miles an hour, but were going roughly 2 miles an hour, because the pedestrians were blocking them. Were the pedestrians doing that so they could check out the drivers and pull any who looked like right-wingers out of their cars and beat them? I'm pretty sure some of them were at least thinking of that. There weren't that many pedestrians around that they couldn't have made room for the cars if they had wanted to.
There was no other way out of town for the guy. He could not turn right or left at the previous intersection with Main Street, because Main is now a pedestrian mall, blocked off by bollards. He could not legally go back north, because 4th Street is one-way southbound, though he did back up that way after the collision, when it was the only way out, legal or not.
Nor is it true to say that he drove into pedestrians. He drove square into the back of the car in front of him, which was right in the middle of the lane of traffic where it was supposed to be. If his aim was to kill pedestrians, he could easily have gone right or left and killed lots of them himself, and maybe even have gotten past the other two cars, but he didn't. It looks like he was praying that the blockage would open up and the other cars would start moving and all three could get the Hell out of town and onto I-64 and head for Ohio.
I don't know if he hit anyone backing up, but it looks to me like anyone who was hurt or killed in the initial collision was hit by the car he ran into (silver convertible with black roof) or the red SUV in front of it that he knocked it into or (worst of all) crushed between them. And any pedestrian hit by any of the three vehicles had no business being where they were, in the middle of the damned street blocking traffic. Their own recklessness was in fact a contributing factor to their injuries.
A view from the rear.
Those are non-violent, peaceful baseball bats and batons they used to attack the car after the impact.
"it looks to me like anyone who was hurt or killed in the initial collision was hit by the car he ran into"
Wrong.
The rush to judgment fans are an interesting breed. I remain a skeptic. I trust the ordinary people who will appear on a jury - if it gets that far - to make a decision that approaches justice asymptotically. But I also assume the first after action reports are almost always wrong in important ways.
"a shield is not a weapon."
The Spartans just called - they wish to disagree. Strenuously.
In all seriousness, a real shield (not a paper mock-up), properly handled, is absolutely a weapon.
That's the video I saw yesterday but could not find today.
From the perspective before he descended, I wonder if he could even see the two other cars, or if he just saw the people (blocking the cars).
Thanks for that video, Rabel. Awful.
My heart goes out to all the people hurt. But I want to ask the girl who jumps on the back of the car with a bat what she was thinking.
The Downtown Mall in Charlottesville, Virginia is one of the longest pedestrian malls in the United States.[1] Located on Main Street, it runs from 6th St. N.E. to Old Preston Ave., where it extends to Water St., for total length of eight blocks. It is laid with brick and concrete, and home to an array of restaurants, shops, offices and art galleries. On Fridays in the spring, summer and fall, the Downtown Mall is host to Fridays After 5, a weekly concert series. Several side streets are also paved in brick and likewise closed to traffic. On the east, the Mall ends at the Sprint Pavilion, an outdoor concert venue, while the west end of the Mall features an Omni Hotel and an indoor ice skating rink. It is also home to the newly renovated Paramount Theater and the historic Jefferson Theater.
Wiki
Rabel:
Thanks. I hadn't seen the incident from that angle. So he did hit a few people before hitting the car, but (a) he was still in fact driving exactly where he should have been driving and where pedestrians had no right to be, right down the middle of the street, and (b) those guys with the clubs were pretty damned close - it sure looks like they were chasing him. By the way, I have no sympathy whatever for the fuckers who were clubbing his back window and got run over when he reversed.
I wonder when we'll get a list of the injured and their hometowns, what (if anything) they do for a living, and how many other 'demonstrations' they've participated in.
I'm now thinking he's damned lucky he managed to surrender to the police. If he'd stuck around, out of guilt or after being dazed by his airbag, it really looks like he'd be in the morgue himself, possibly in more than one piece.
"Those are non-violent, peaceful baseball bats and batons they used to attack the car after the impact."
What do you expect? Of course they're going to stop his car by beating it with baseball bats AFTER he mowed down people.
From what I'm seeing in the video, a fight-or-flight reflex resolved either way would produce the same terrible result. There's no flight path.
Under the “fight or flight” self-defense theory, he would have been equally justified in pulling out a rifle and shooting the protesters from a block away before driving off -- after all, they were blocking his flight path.
"....pedestrians had no right to be...."
What don't you get about the words PEDESTRIAN MALL?
In the video I posted at 1:01 you can see cars on all four streets leading into the intersection. There is no "pedestrian mall" involved in the incident.
UnknownInga82 thinks those baseball bats appeared magically, along with the people wielding them, only the very second after the car hit people.
UnknownInga82 is overly credulous.
The videos don't show me any excuse for what he did. It looks quite purposeful.
But there sure were a lot of "counter-protesters" with bats and helmets.
Exactly, Rabel. This is not a pedestrian mall. There are parking spaces, traffic signs, and cars.
"What do you expect?"
I would expect that people masked and helmeted and carrying weapons not be represented as peaceful demonstrators.
"Video recorded at the scene of the car crash shows a 2010 gray Dodge Challenger accelerating into crowds on a pedestrian mall sending bodies flying — and then reversing at high speed, hitting yet more people. Witnesses said the street was filled with people opposed to the white nationalists who had come to town bearing Confederate flags and anti-Semitic epithets."
https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/fights-in-advance-of-saturday-protest-in-charlottesville/2017/08/12/155fb636-7f13-11e7-83c7-5bd5460f0d7e_story.html?utm_term=.332b52f9d8cb
Unknown (1:21pm) quotes Wikipedia to argue something that is in fact a goddamned lie. Anyone who has been to the Downtown Mall in Charlottesville (as I have many times, though it's been a couple of years) or anyone capable of using Google fucking Maps (here) can see that the "Several side streets . . . also paved in brick and likewise closed to traffic" include 1st, E 2nd, E 3rd, and E 5th Streets, but not W 2nd Street, which goes through, and NOT E 4th Street, which, as I have already noted, is the street (NOT mall) on which the guy was actually driving. The thin grey lines on the Google map are mall areas, the wide white ones actual open streets where cars have the right of way except in crosswalks when the sign says 'Walk'. If the map doesn't prove Unknown a damned liar, try Google Street View for even more detail on what parts of the area are pedestrian mall and what are streets.
By the way, Lee Park is visible on the map just north of the mall between 1st and E 2nd Streets. Apparently Google hasn't gotten around to relabeling it Emancipation Park, but I believe that's where the statue is, and the demonstration was supposed to be.
In my 1:10 video you can see a person being given CPR before being carried off by the paramedics. I assume that was the fatality. She was a large woman. I hope it wasn't Trigglypuff. I'd miss her.
In the video I saw a lot of people jaywalking.
I wonder where the police were?
Obviously they should have barricaded a bunch of streets to remove traffic.
Althouse asked, "Would he really have changed shirts?"
Given that that is a booking photo, that's probably the local jail uniform. He probably didn't have any choice about changing into it.
Wonder what those other cars were doing on the "pedestrian mall."
As I understand it, he ran into parked cars, which were on the edge of Waters street, which is the pedestrian mall.
I am very confused as to what people are calling a "flight path." He's speeding into a pedestrian mall. He can clearly see there is a crowd of people in front of him.
There are very few people & no cars behind him.
But he decides to drive forward, into the crowd, at a speed not appropriate to that downtown area.
Have people seen the top video on this link?
You can see how he oddly chooses to drive forward, at speed, into the crowd. He does not slow. He does not brake. The video shows him speeding for at least 2 blocks. He plows into the crowd.
He then reverses, and you can see how there aren't any cars & very few people from where he came speeding in from.
http://wtvr.com/2017/08/12/vehicle-hits-counter-protesters-charlottesville-unite-the-right-rally-water-street/
I do not understand how anyone can watch this video and think he doesn't have a "flight path." He choose to drive towards, not away, from the crowd.
He's the only car driving on that street. Everyone else is parked, or a pedestrian.
Even if these counter protestors were on any street illegally, who gave this murderer the right to take the law into his own hands and be the judge, jury and executioner?
"Aside from the apparent murder-by-vehicle incident, I would like a frame-by-frame analysis of all the videos of the protests including those from surveillance cameras to determine who was committing violence first, and how, and what individuals were involved. Of course, this would require a neutral party. Is there such an entity today?"
What the heck are you saying, mockturtle? Your attempt to justify the criminal actions of this racist punk, are disgusting, and shameful. One woman is dead and many others are injured, and you want to watch the "frame-by-frame."
They've identified the fatality. It wasn't Trigglypuff or, apparently, the person receiving CPR.
RIP mighty Warrior.
Sorry, don't have the time to wade through 230, but I can tell you that especially with light white t-shirts, the neck can be stretched out some. You can adjust it to appear "high" in the front in the morning, but by the end of the day, sometimes it's back to appearing relatively lower in the front.
From the little I've seen, just about everything of any true substance seems already to have been covered.
Wow, Unknown's 1:35pm post shows that Washington fucking Post is also lying and saying he ran over people on a pedestrian mall. It would be totally dishonest, but they could claim they're technically correct: the entire 8-block by 2-block area in which this happened is generally called the Downtown Mall, but the two streets that cross it (W 2nd and E 4th) are not in fact reserved for pedestrians unless they're in crosswalks and even then not if the sign says 'Don't Walk'. He had the right of way, and he was not driving on a pedestrian mall in any but the most technical and misleading sense. So the Washington Post has sunk to Unknown's level of lying. Sad.
pedestrian mall
Why do they have stop signs on a pedestrian mall?
This looks like a street designed for motorized vehicles to me.
You can see the road he is on is not paved in brick.
It's not the pedestrian mall described.
UnknownInga82: "Even if these counter protestors were on any street illegally, who gave this murderer the right to take the law into his own hands and be the judge, jury and executioner?"
Self-refuting comments are my favorite type.
I assume the executioner comes later.
"It's not the pedestrian mall described."
Doesn't make the crime any less heinous.
He's the only car driving on that street. Everyone else is parked, or a pedestrian.
I agree with much of what you said, except for this.
There are two cars in front of him that are stopped- apparently by the crowd. But they are not parked. There was a parked car - a black SUV- near where he hit the other two and then backed up.
Birkel, me calling him a murderer is not the same as a jury calling him one. Stop being an idiot.
Trupit whines: What the heck are you saying, mockturtle? Your attempt to justify the criminal actions of this racist punk, are disgusting, and shameful. One woman is dead and many others are injured, and you want to watch the "frame-by-frame."
Did I not say, "Aside from the apparent murder-by-vehicle incident". Don't you read, you detestable cretin? What I was saying was I want an objective analysis of the players--both sides--during the entire protest.
...who gave this murderer the right to take the law into his own hands and be the judge, jury and executioner?
Rules of war do not follow civil laws. The lowest rank soldier can in fact kill anyone who is the enemy.
Since the confiscation of wealth began in 2008, and the loss of the middle class, we are now seeing the tribes moving into their power centers.
It's not the pedestrian mall described.
As he backs up you can see the red brick crossing the road he's on. As he speeds into the crowd he's not in the ped mall, but he's crossing through areas of it.
It's clear from the video he chooses to drive forward, into the crowd. He chooses to do this when it's clear w/ no cars & little crowds behind him.
If you promise to use the word alleged, I promise to pretend you mean alleged.
Pretty awesome that you complain somebody else is doing precisely what you are doing at that very moment.
Irony overdoses are dangerous.
#Fen'sLaw
wwww
Can you speak to the speed at which the baseball bat wielding people arrive on scene? Do they matter in your analysis? Tell me what you think happened.
Rabel had the video linked above.
Drudge links to an NBC drone video of the intersection. A red minivan driving down Fourth Street pushes through pedestrians then inexplicably stops in the center of the intersection with Water Street. There is a gap, then we see that there is a white car behind the red minivan, and a fire truck blocks Water Street. The intersection is now impassable. There are numerous individuals in lime green safety vests, who may or may not be police, but they are doing nothing to clear the intersection or control the mob. The video stops before the incident with Fields' Challenger.
This video confirms that "wwww" doesn't know what he is writing about; Water is a major street complete with turn lanes at its intersection with Fourth, and Fourth is one way, with no room for Fields to turn around.
@Rabel, thank you for the video you provided. It confirms that there were numerous antifa demonstrators on Fourth Street above the intersection with Water who were armed with clubs and very willing to use them.
wwww (1:41pm):
As you understand it is entirely wrong. He was not speeding into a pedestrian mall. Here's the Google Street View of the intersection. He was driving S on 4th Street, the narrow street on the right, approaching this very intersection, coming towards the camera. Water St. (the big one right in front of the picture) may be part of the Downtown Mall in the sense that it is the south edge of the 8-block by 2-block Mall neighborhood, but you can see that Water St. is in fact a normal two-way street, where pedestrians should all be on the sidewalk. It is not a mall and not reserved for pedestrians. Not normally, anyway: in some of the pictures I've seen, there's firetruck parked slantways right where the bicycle is painted on the street, so he couldn't have turned right on Water if he'd wanted to. The two cars he hit were not parked, they were in the lane of traffic, with the right of way, but moving very slowly because asshole pedestrians were making them move slowly.
mock turtle- I agree with you and have found it very frustrating that we don't get to see what was going on most of the day.
I know I've said it a million times, but when I first heard about the car I tuned into CNN to see what happened, and they had political panel after political panel talking about what Trump had said.
Not an explanation of the day, or the people involved, or who the "counter-protesters" might be. Just hour after hour of hearing what Van Jones and Brian Fallon had to say about Trump.
At this point, the only thing that is clear is this --
If the media were more intent on simply investigating and reporting the news, rather than pushing an agenda, what really happened would be a lot more clear.
Yes Mark. That is it exactly.
Mark is right: If the media were more intent on simply investigating and reporting the news, rather than pushing an agenda, what really happened would be a lot more clear.
Only thing I would do to FIFY is remove the word 'more'.
Police made a very unfortunate error in forcing the pretend Nazis to walk through the assembled pretend commies at the park when they declared the Nazi group an unlawful assembly.
I wonder if it is a similar "error" made by San Jose police that moved barricades to force Trump rally attendees to walk all around a block to get to their cars next door to the rally site?
These are cities run by Democrats and I am beginning to lose faith in the good will of police in some places, especially college towns ruled by Democrats.
Rabel thanks for that video. I had not seen it before. The people with clubs appear to be chasing the car,
From Powerline:
New York Times reporter Sheryl Gay Stolberg was on the scene yesterday. She noted on Twitter: “The hard left seemed as hate-filled as alt-right. I saw club-wielding ‘antifa’ beating white nationalists being led out of the park.”
The Law knew what was coming and failed to stop it.
Sheryl Gay Stolberg is going to get a stern letter in her employee jacket.
Mark said...
At this point, the only thing that is clear is this --
If the media were more intent on simply investigating and reporting the news, rather than pushing an agenda, what really happened would be a lot more clear.
I disagree. It is also clear that the leftists were there to start a fight and the leftists here prove their goal is to drive this country into a tribal war.
The party of La Raza, BLM, CAIR, Slavery, Jim Crow, Affirmative Action, Planned Parenthood, and overt political violence is ranting about racists and nationalists.
Fen's Law.
They have been acting in bad faith for years.
Okay, people want President Trump to do something, here's something constructive that President Trump could do.
Tell Sessions to tell all US municipalities that all protests that occur in their areas had better be law enforced the s*** out of, fairly both sides, otherwise civil rights charges will be brought against Everybody Within Reach at the municipality for failing to protect the people from The Inevitable Consequences of these clashes.
That, and or, Federal troops will do the enforcing.
"His Army career was 4 months long. Means there's something not right about him..."
Lots of people wash out of the Army for myriad reasons. Basic training is tough, and a "normal" person can fail and still be a decent and otherwise capable member of society. At least he tried.
"Lots of people wash out of the Army for myriad reasons."
Which why I'd like to know why. Four months is after basic and the recruit is probably less likely to quit then.
In another link I posted to "Blue Lives Matter" they said he had not disclosed that he was taking anti-psychotic medication.
If true, that's a big deal.
Dr Weevil said...
...And any pedestrian hit by any of the three vehicles had no business being where they were, in the middle of the damned street blocking traffic. Their own recklessness was in fact a contributing factor to their injuries.
Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
@Rabel,
The Law knew what was coming and failed to stop it.
This is, sadly, part of the greatest damage that these antifa demonstrations/riots have done to the political fabric. I've watched the American right-wing for many years, even before I became conservative. They were, many years ago, always firm supporters of law enforcement. Now, that isn't the case.
There have been too many instances where law enforcement has either targeted even mainline right-wing groups or simply failed in their duty to protect them from harm. That Chicago allowed that Trump rally to be shut down is a national disgrace, & it should have ended many a career. But, nothing happened. Over & over again, nothing happens to law enforcement who fail in their duty to protect the citizenry who are acting on their constitutional rights.
It's a really, really bad idea to make the folks who own probably about 85% of this nation's 300 million guns feel that they're on their own when it comes to their lawful protection. Down that path lies insurgencies if not outright civil war.
Those Ohio Supremacists are what is wrong with the world today. They are an entitled cult that expects to rule NCAA sports. It is absolutely a high hate crime.
Tarring anyone that does not agree with tearing down all semblance of the old south as a nazi/fascist/racist is going to get a lot of people hurt.
But that is the democrat playbook, that is all they have.
Unknown said...
"....pedestrians had no right to be...."
What don't you get about the words PEDESTRIAN MALL?
You moron, that was NOT a "pedestrian mall." Pedestrian malls don't need stop signs at street corners. There may have been pedestrian-only streets nearby, but that sure as hell wasn't one of them.
And speaking of police, why did the Charlottesville police let a large Antifa mob walk unescorted through a major shopping district? Is it any secret what Antifa mobs like to do in shopping districts?
If there had been a police escort on all sides of the crowd on 4th St, those stopped cars could have been let through. If the accused driver deliberately rammed those people, he might have been dissuaded by the thought of running a police gauntlet to get to them. If he panicked in fear for his life, then maybe police presence would have prevented whatever panicked him.
I think what we're seeing here is failed policing yet again.
"He wasn't driving behind those cars. The video shows him screeching into a video frame from the blocks behind, and racing into the crowd. You can't even see the two cars from that video. Pedestrians are racing out of the way as he races up the street."
He wasn't driving behind the car he rammed from behind with his car!? VERY INTERESTING, wwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww!!!
I agree with Laslo de Spatula; Fields had ample opportunity to run over pedestrians without smashing into the car in front of him, badly damaging his car and making effective escape impossible, had that been his intention. It's possible his foot slipped off the brake and/or onto the accelerator. I'm not proposing that's the way it happened, just that it's a possibility.
"I think what we're seeing here is failed policing yet again."
Yes and the concern os that it was done on purpose to allow a riot to further the left's narrative.
The Ruby Ridge case is an example of why this is a bad idea.
http://www.redstate.com/patterico/2017/08/13/shocker-charlottesville-driver-obsessed-nazism/
"The accused driver, James Alex Fields Jr., 20, of Ohio, had espoused extremist ideals at least since high school, according to Derek Weimer, a history teacher.
Weimer said that he taught Fields during his junior and senior years at Randall K. Cooper High School in Kentucky. In a class called “America’s Modern Wars,” Weimer said that Fields wrote a deeply researched paper about the Nazi military during World War II.
“It was obvious that he had this fascination with Nazism and a big idolatry of Adolf Hitler,” Weimer said. “He had white supremacist views. He really believed in that stuff.”
Weimer said that Fields’s research project into the Nazi military was well written but appeared to be a “big lovefest for the German military and the Waffen-SS.”"
UnknownInga82,
So when you called him a murderer you were just readying yourself to call him other names too, I see. Judge and jury is a nice look on you.
I guess all the people who study Marxist theory at universities get a pass from you. Same murderous team and all.
"So when you called him a murderer you were just readying yourself to call him other names too, I see."
Yes, true. It was an insult, just like when I called you an idiot.
Do you wonder why the name calling of the Leftist Collectivists is so much less effective than it was not long ago? Even your insults are boring.
Why can't we all agree that Communism and Fascism are really just different prongs on the same pitchfork? They are not antithetical. They are both totalitarian--dangerous--conditions which we should resist, legally and peacefully if possible.
Field had a fascination with white supremacy and Naziism.
wwww: It's clear from the video he chooses to drive forward, into the crowd. He chooses to do this when it's clear w/ no cars & little crowds behind him.
Yes, that's the way it looks to me.
Amazing how having access to video can clarify things, isn't it? When videos are freely available. Not like, say, having to engage in open-ended speculation about whether a street was or was not part of a pedestrian mall closed to car traffic at a particular time, with only recourse to memories of long-past personal experience, and wikipedia descriptions, to settle the question? If only there were current videos, that everyone was looking at, just like the one you watched, that would clearly show whether that street did or did not, at the time in question, have cars on it, and all the usual signage, parking, and raised sidewalks that clearly distinguish a vehicle through-way from a pedestrian-only street? I guess that's one part of the scenario we'll just never be sure about.
The fact that Field was a hard-rightie gives him motive to crash into the crowd.
It also gives him reason to truly believe that if the crowd caught him, they'd do him serious bodily harm.
I think prosecution/defense-wise, it's a wash.
"When videos are freely available."
I posted this same video and two others yesterday. If you were to lazy to view them it was your loss.
there's a brief video clip of his car getting baseball batted before he accelerates. in a charger the middle red bar lights up when brakes are on.
this happened on an open street near a parking garage exit where antifa+friends were macing + baseball batting + hurling objects at passersby
speculation: felt like he was being chased by those in the mob who'd previously attacked him, and didn't intend to rear end a car but rather thought he would push (no brakes) through a crowd of what he thought were pedestrians. i think that was a poor decision (the threat wasn't that near; he could have been patient and anyway when you can't see far you should go slow in general) but obviously he was in a bit of a panic. and as pointed out, he's on antipsychotics, so who knows.
intentionally failed policing
last-minute yanked permits after fed judge told them they couldn't yank
set-up
that said, it appears this charger kid did wrong. decided wrong. will regret for the rest of his life.
"there's a brief video clip of his car getting baseball batted before he accelerates. in a charger the middle red bar lights up when brakes are on."
Where? Link.
The woman killed was a demonstrator, not an innocent bystander.
She is being memorialized by her allies.
The DSA is celebrating her as an activist member,
As counterdemonstrators, including members of Black Lives Matter, DSA, and Antifa, prepared for a peaceful early–afternoon march through the streets of downtown Charlottesville,
Yes, those people are always "peaceful."
She was an IWW "comrade"
I don't know how the case will turn out for the driver. But she took her chances in that event.
Self-driving cars are gonna make black lives matter even when white folks want to think otherwise.
The moooooslims are screwed, too.
Sooner the better.
Meadhouse won't last long enough to see mandatory cars that don't let scared white bitches plow down black folks.
"On Sunday, her mother, Susan Bro, said she was destined to give her life for fighting against evil.
"She always had a very strong sense of right and wrong, she always, even as a child, was very caught up in what she believed to be fair," Bro told the Huffington Post through tears.
Felicia Correa, Heyer’s childhood friend, said “she died doing what was right.”
“My heart is broken, but I am forever proud of her," she added.
A GoFundMe webpage set up for Heyer’s family raised $189,163 as of Sunday afternoon.
“I’m sorry you lived in a country with Trump as president,” wrote Susan Hartman, who donated $10. “He encouraged what happened. Millions mourn your death. Your family can be proud of you for feeling passionately about your beliefs.”"
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/va-paralegal-killed-protest-white-supremacist-rally-article-1.3407863
I'd just like to comment about the two pictures and give a caution about perspective in most camera and video images.
First, about the two photos. The one on the left is a normal image that has been been cropped without changing the aspect ratio. This is an image we all take and crop. The proportions of the face are normal; what we would expect.
The image on the right is an ID photo; an official one, the type that is rendered through some programs to alter the aspect ratio to fit the legal requirements of a Virginia State ID Photo. What makes this photo so strange, indeed like all "machine made" ID photos is that program (or the liveware processor) crops the normal photo about the head and then changes the aspect ratio for the Image Size. This is real straight forward stuff in Photoshop, for example. The program takes the normal photo, crops it, and then "resizes" the dimensions as per regulations.
Hence the distortion.
Normally, I do not do ID photos but when I do, I have very satisfied customers. I crop the image properly and then balance out to the exact dimensions via Photoshop's Image resizing function. People like the results because their official ID images look like proper portraits rather than the distorted horror on the right.
Second, most "lenses" on small "cameras" tend to be wide angle or worse subject to incredible distortion. Most image processing software used by amateurs and professionals will correct this distortion. It is like the side view mirrors that tell you in impossibly small writing that images are actually closer than they appear.
As a result, an image of the car looming large in the foreground (artistically placed to one side) and another subject(s) in the background, a crappy wide angle lens (plus the cropping factor of the camera's sensor) will INCREASE the distance between foreground and background. Without a proper scale in the image, it is impossible to judge angles and distances in a photograph.
This is why technical photographers will place a scale on the edge of a photograph that can be cropped out for later prints.
Just saying.
He was charged with second degree murder, so I guess that means it's really manslaughter. If that's the case, he was likely fleeing from attackers, not intentionally running down protestors.
The best approach is to avoid provoking them, and to reduce their anxiety. But this does not seem to be the approach their opponents have chosen.
8/13/17, 11:03 AM
Yes, North Korea? Give them some oil, give them some food, give them some reactors.
Iran? What's a few pallets of cash here or there? It's all our fault.
Americans who see things differently? No quarter!
Blogger 3rdGradePB_GoodPerson said...
Meadhouse won't last long enough to see mandatory cars that don't let scared white bitches plow down black folks.
8/13/17, 4:55 PM
Why do I get the feeling you're a shitty driver (as well as an enemy of freedom)?
I am sure the dead white girl would agree with jelly the focus can only be on blacks harmed here, NO WHITES!
He was charged with second degree murder, so I guess that means it's really manslaughter. If that's the case, he was likely fleeing from attackers, not intentionally running down protestors.
I think second degree means intent but not 'malice aforethought'. Not the same as manslaughter which is unintentional.
Ingabot: I posted this same video and two others yesterday. If you were to lazy to view them it was your loss.
Yeah, I know you did Ingabot, but what I was bummed about was the total absolute lack of videos that would settle the vexed question of whether that street was pedestrian only. I mean, obviously, you couldn't find any either, since you and wwww had to keep referring contrary blockheads to print sources to prove that it was totally absolutely all of it for pedestrians, right? Not that I don't believe you, I'm sure your're right that the street in question was totally for pedestrians and no car should have been on it. I just think it's kinda weird that these days, what with ubiquitous cell phone cameras and Google street and surveillance cameras and drones and everything, that there's like, totally no easily viewable, widely available video to clearly demonstrate this. Don't you?
Second degree murder means there was no pre-meditation.
BTW, when we yoots refer to 'scared white bitches', we mean all geezer....er....I mean 'temporally advanced' honkies that like to imagine justifications for plowing down black folks. Not just the gals, or female dogs that sniff for drugs (no Venn diagrams, please).
Anywho, even future Bad Ls won't be able to do this. The cars won't allow it.
Presumably, y'all can continue to institutionalize racism in other ways.
Or not.
Hopefully.
Conservatives are traitors and criminals.
PB&J's 7:04 sets a new record for incoherent blather.
Perhaps "2nd grade PB&J" has control of his keyboard?
Blogger Unknown said...
"So when you called him a murderer you were just readying yourself to call him other names too, I see."
Yes, true. It was an insult, just like when I called you an idiot."
But when it comes from you we don't really take it as an insult. Considering the source and all.
What you and your friends should do is go down to where he's being held and force the sheriff to release him to you so you can lynch him.After all he's guilty of murder, right? All good democrats are good at lynching.
Lewis, I would say that regression hypnosis isn't supposed to work like that, but one must acknowledge the evidence of one's own eyes. At least he's having a good time.
Bad L,
He doesn't know what you're comment means.
But I do.
Sorry.
Irony is fun.
He doesn't know what you're (sic) comment means.
And you are... Something....
I love how you alt-rights obsess over minor details like the space between his eyebrows, the brake lights, the shields handed out. He DROVE INTO A CROWD OF WOMEN. He caused the death of two police officers. He's a dickless terrorist. Anyone defending him is equally as hateful as he is.
And you know what, I'm gonna be hateful too. I hope someone will kill all of you right wingers, AND your families. Your time is coming. The white race will be made extinct, and it's your fault. I was happy to stay out of your race war, but now, after this, you've awoken me. I hope people like me are going to kill any Alt-Right they see. You all deserve to die, you traitors to america, celebrating nazis and confederates and SWORN ENEMIES OF THE US. Go join ISIS you dickless white cuckolds.
So which are you from, jtabachi — the alt right or the prog left? From what you wrote here, I can't tell.
there's a brief video clip of his car getting baseball batted before he accelerates. in a charger the middle red bar lights up when brakes are on.
Where?
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