“You can be sure we will charge and advance the investigation toward the most serious charges that can be brought because this is unequivocally an unacceptable evil attack,” Mr. Sessions said, adding that terrorism and civil rights investigators were working on the case....
The “domestic terrorism” language is largely symbolic — many of the law's stiffest penalties are for international terrorism that do not apply domestically. But the debate over language has raged for more than a decade, as Muslim groups in particular argue that the word terrorism is used only when the attackers are Muslim....
August 14, 2017
"It does meet the definition of domestic terrorism in our statute."
Said Jeff Sessions, speaking of the Charlottesville incident (NYT).
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About time Sessions got serious about doing his job.
Of course it's terrorism. And you have failed to treat it that way...
Political correctness works it's magic on Sessions. A Terrible violent crime, yes. It hasn't been investigated yet. Calling it terrorism muddies and potentially devalues the word. Conflating uninvestigated crime with terrorism distracts us from fighting politically and ideologically and premeditated violence by those who wish to destroy our country.
I'm not defending the guy, but if he was scared for his life, and being attacked with baseball bats - we need to know that.
If he plowed into people intentionally - yes - we call that terrorism.
this is unequivocally an unacceptable evil attack
Jesus Christ can these people stop with the PC moral touchstones.
It's an attack and it's your job to figure out what really happened, not if it's evil.
Muslim groups in particular argue that the word terrorism is used only when the attackers are Muslim
Muslim groups must not watch newscasts or read newspapers.
“Our hearts are with today's victims. White supremacy is a scourge. This hate and its terrorism must be confronted and defeated.”
~ Paul Ryan
Got Due Process?
“Racial prejudice, then hate, then repugnant speech, then a repulsive rally, then murder; not supremacy, barbarism.”
~ Mitt Romney
“We are in a crisis of leadership. Leaders must do more than tweet and talk, they must lead with their actions.”
~ Joel Searby
Tensorism would show independence of point of view.
MWhom attacked first?
For those criticizing: when you have political mobs assaulting citizens AND THE POLICE DO NOTHING, you are going to get OTHER political mobs.
Tell the cops to do their jobs.
Isn't it telling that only Democrat mayors seem to be allowing riots unhampered by police?
“With his statement Trump gave white supremacists a propaganda victory.”
~ Ramesh Ponnuru
sunsong said...
Of course it's terrorism. And you have failed to treat it that way...
More Not-Terrorism
Somehow expectations continue to run only one direction.
Does nobody know how to defend against soap opera.
Has anyone decried political violence in general?
“We have nazi sympathizers and white nationalists in the White House. Condemn them too. They should not be receiving taxpayer money.”
~ John Legend
This is quite good from Sessions -- the left can now chase its own tail about "terrorism" for a while.
“Our Founders fought a revolution for the idea that all men are created equal. The heirs of that revolution fought a Civil War to save our nation, conceived in liberty and dedicated to that revolutionary proposition.
“Nothing less is at stake on the streets of Charlottesville, Virginia, where a violent attack has taken at least one American life and injured many others in a confrontation between our better angels and our worst demons.
“White supremacists and neo-Nazis are, by definition, opposed to American patriotism and the ideals that define us as a people and make our nation special.
“As we mourn the tragedy that has occurred in Charlottesville, American patriots of all colors and creeds must come together to defy those who raise the flag of hatred and bigotry.”
~ John McCain
It was a crummy thing that happened in Charlottesville, but it was not "Kristallnacht" and it was not the Pettis Bridge.
This piling on and running away from it by the politicians is despicable.
White supremacy is a scourge. This hate and its terrorism must be confronted and defeated.”
~ Paul Ryan
While I agree with Ryan on this - there is a lot of hate and anger coming from both (all?) sides these days. To condemn only one side of the hate and violence will not lead to healing. There are many reputable reports that both sides were violently attacking each other (Antifa and BLM were apparently well represented there).
None of this justifies running a car into a crowd of people, and the drive should face the legal consequences of his actions. Also, while this guy was likely fueled by hate, given that he appeared to be acting in the heat of the moment (my read on the video), can we really call this 'terrorism'? Seems a stretch.
"I don't reject your Christ. I love your Christ. It's just that so many Christians are so unlike your Christ."
~ Mahatma Ghandi
He is referring to antifa bringing weapons to attack a permitted rally, correct?
Of course at 8:56 I assumed Sessions would even-handedly investigate the antifa. If he doesn't then better he had never been born.
I would suggest Sessions have his lawyers depose ALL these cops at the same time far off site. That the mayor and police chief he held in custody for however many days is legal.
I think the radio transcripts ought to be released.
“A fundamentalist radical Christian is just as misguided & frightening as a fundamentalist radical Muslim. No difference.”
~ Matthew Dowd
sunsong said...
“We have nazi sympathizers and white nationalists in the White House.
What a fool.
“If your religion teaches you to hate others or to justify killing, then you are not a person of faith. I will pray for you though.”
~ Matthew Dowd
American patriots of all colors and creeds must come together to defy those who raise the flag of hatred and bigotry.”
Sure, but you need to call out all hatred and bigotry - if you only stand against one side, you only add fuel to the fire - giving a sense of righteousness to the side you refuse to condemn and adding to the resentment of the one side you do concern.
John McCain - as a politician, this man is such a fail.
“You can be sure we will charge and advance the investigation . . .
Advance the investigation? What for??
We already know everything we need to know. We know what, why, and who. Fully and clearly. We don't need no investigation. We don't need to have any stinking trial.
The only thing we don't know is where to get the rope.
I don't know how THIS can count as terrorism, but the guy who shot Scalise did not.
Meanwhile, POTUS... tweets against Democrats on trade deals (which ones? No clue) and like a 6yr old against a drug. Co executive whose company's policies he was fine with Friday. Moral midget.
The largest white supremacy gathering in many years. Coincidence? No.
They believe they have a friend in the White House...
The anti-Trumpers also need to look in the mirror and ask themselves how much they themselves have stoked the fires of anger and rage in this country.
Dear Senator McCain,
Should we put this 'scourge' into camps then? How firmly are you wed to free speech, sir?
What about the other racists there attacking the so called white nationalists? Do you want that scourge eliminated to or are you the enormous hypocrite you've shown yourself in the past?
"Very important for the nation to hear @potus describe events in #Charlottesville for what they are, a terror attack by #whitesupremacists,"
~ Sen. Marco Rubio
We are the gardeners of this tree of division. We create the soil for the tree, we plant the tree, we nourish the tree, we carefully prune the tree, we clear out other impediments to the tree to give it room to grow and plenty of sunlight. Our politicians know only how to counter division by injecting more division.
But all along we all say to each other and warn the tree: "this tree must not bear fruit."
But the tree does bear fruit and it is very bitter indeed.
Then all our politicians stand and condemn the bitter fruit of the tree they themselves helped nurture and grow.
"American patriots of all colors and creeds must come together to defy this tree which bares the bitter fruit of hatred and bigotry."
Or in other words: "We must be unified as long as we recognize that some among us are better than others."
Good luck with that.
Got no problem with calling this "terrorism", subsequent to due process, but I cringe at the use of word "unacceptable". "Unacceptable evil". As opposed to "acceptable evil"? I guess running people down can be "inappropriate", too. C'mon, Jefferson Beauregard, leave that vocabulary to its rightful owners.
I don't know if it is terrorism. It certainly could be, but it also may not. According to the article and statute cited, it is terrorism it is terrorism if it is a criminal act carried out with the intent to 1 intimidate or coerce a group of the population, or to 2 affect a government policy by coercion. Now certainly driving a car into a group of protesters could satisfy either of these two elements but I do not know if that is what the suspect intended. Keep in mind at the state level he has only been charged with 2nd degree murder so far. To me that suggests they don't have evidence or at least not good evidence that this was premeditated. While I still think it is clearly a crime, I suspect that it was more of a spontaneous crime. One where the guy kept getting angrier and angrier as the day went on and hew as subjected to what he felt as unfair abuse from the city, the police, and the counter-protesters when eventually he decided to take it out on the the group he drove into. Merely because a person went so far as to kill another person because he was angry at them and other people might be scared of that action doesn't somehow transform that murder into terrorism.
I think in order to prove terrorism against the suspect they will need similar evidence they would need to bump it up to first degree murder. Evidence of planning or premeditation. I'm iffy on the spontaneous acts of terrorism concept.
In contrast, if groups on the left planned and set out to go to the protest with weapons to commit violence on the original protesters to intimidate them at that point and in the future into not performing similar acts of protest or public appearance, doesn't that more closely fit the definition of domestic terrorism?
Terrorism means at least three days of news coverage.
Trumpers = the Venn diagram of Neo-Nazi's + White Nationalists
Go on, just admit it. We know it and you know it. Take the invisible hood off and say it loud and clear so everyone can hear.
Ooops, my bad. You did take the hood off. You voted Trump.
Sunsong seems happier than a pig in shit about this. If only more people could get killed by righties sunsong could get more mileage. Sorry, not pulling for you on that one sun.
"Facts are stubborn things,and whatever may be our inclinations, or the dictums of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence."
-John Adams, at the Boston Massacre trial
Ryan, McCain and Rubio -- whiney losers who couldn't win the presidency. Lulz
Who ordered the police to stand down?
The amount of irrational hatred coming from the left in a desperate attempt to pin the violence on the entire right for what a fraction of a percent of people believe in is kind of ghastly, considering how adamant that the left is in no way responsible for chanting death to pigs or having their politicians joking about assassinating Trump.
It's a shame the right's finally given in to playing by the left's rules, but it is kind of shocking to see how quickly the left pretends that they never played by those rules in the first place.
One of the wrenches in this rope party is that the bad guys have a pre-existing court order against the government officials giving the bad guys the right to assemble and ensuring that they be able to do so peacefully. The government violated that court order. Meanwhile, the pure and innocent good guys who were there in force - and armed with deadly weapons - to counter the bad guys did not have legal authorization to be there.
And now the bad guys can drag the whole thing into court in contempt proceedings to show what did and did not actually happen.
Keep calling everyone a white nationalist KKKer, leftists. That's how you win. That's how Hillary won!
A hatred and bigotry flag would be a good idea.
Odio et Superstitio
Latin adds class. Even nazis would be credited with a sense of humor.
Presumably Sessions has access to evidence we have not yet seen. You have to know more about the intentions of the accused to know.
I hope Sessions isn't just trying to appease and win favor.
Has the FBI changed their stance on the Scalise shooting?
This is a guy who canvassed an attack site, confirmed his targets, had a kill list, and acted to change America's national politics through violence -- and that WAS NOT TERRORISM.
Given that... what evidence do they need to call random hate-guy a terrorist?
Motives not known.
Lone wolf attack.
Mostly peaceful demonstration.
Concerns about backlash.
Old news, let's move on.
Unknown said...
Trumpers = the Venn diagram of Neo-Nazi's + White Nationalists
Go on, just admit it. We know it and you know it. Take the invisible hood off and say it loud and clear so everyone can hear.
Ooops, my bad. You did take the hood off. You voted Trump.
So voting Trump proves you're a Nazi. The left never progressed past the point of believing anyone who doesn't believe their over-hyped nonsense does so because they support it. This is such childishness.
BREAKING NEWS: "Merck CEO Quits Trump Advisory Council After Charlottesville Violence." (WSJ)
Trump tweet: "Now that Ken Frazier of Merck Pharma has resigned from President's Manufacturing Council,he will have more time to LOWER RIPOFF DRUG PRICES!"
Psst ... Do you think Ken Frazier being black had anything to do with Trump's response. Don't spend too long thinking about it as the answer is pretty obvious.
Trumpers = the Venn diagram of Neo-Nazi's + White Nationalists + White Supremacists
Do not reach out and affirmatively strike a person next to you. (That includes reaching out with your hand, or projecting something towards them that hits them.)
Seems simple enough.
But that's not good enough for the dividers. Their view of the world is more nuanced, don't-cha-know.
You have to consider the hitter - the striker.
You have to consider what is in his or her heart (a spectacularly complex and intractable task.)
You have to go back to their history and their ancestor's history and factor it all in.
Formerly, that part of the puzzle was left to God, who could do the calculation. But now that man is God, we do it ourselves.
And we suck at it.
So why don't we go back and simply say: Do not reach out and affirmatively strike a person next to you. (That includes reaching out with your hand, or projecting something towards them that hits them.)
Do these GOPe pussies even want to fight the lefty narrative?
Maybe the driver just has anger management issues that maybe convinced him to derive a detailed plan to attempt to murder his political enemies, complete with a kill list and confirming their identities?
I want the full report on what's making them call this terrorism, but not that.
Part of the issue for Potus is his demonstrated quick trigger to go on the attack and lash out. Which makes his reticence on white nationalists and nazis so stark.
[Note: If it turns out the most simple explanation is true, that the guy hated the protesters and wanted to kill them for counter-protesting, then it is very likely terrorism. I'm not arguing that the guy who drove that car ISN'T a terrorist. I'm arguing that there's no consistency coming from the government.]
@Rick says This is such childishness.
Ouch, the burn. Sticks and stones.
Quayle said...
....Then all our politicians stand and condemn the bitter fruit of the tree they themselves helped nurture and grow.
Great point - beautifully said.
I hope Sessions isn't just trying to appease and win favor.
Me too, Professor. Me too.
Isn't a better term for Scalise shooter assassin?
"Isn't a better term for Scalise shooter assassin?"
-- Assassins can be terrorists. In fact, most are.
Trumpers = the Venn diagram of Neo-Nazi's + White Nationalists + White Supremacists
Name calling and condemning a large group for the actions and views of a few.
Yeah, that'll make everything better.
sunsong said...
The largest white supremacy gathering in many years. Coincidence? No.
They believe they have a friend in the White House...
8/14/17, 9:18 AM
I know you think so.
So what about the last eight years of black militants gathering, La Raza gathering, feminazis gathering? I assume you feel strongly that they all had a friend (or more) in the White House?
Mobs of antifa fascists run wild for years, illegal immigrant mobs run wild for years demanding citizen rights, BLM gather and riot and burn down towns for years. All that is fine and dandy with some cause those are the correct sorts. Let some white supremacists gather, get accosted due to their protected speech but sure they were the problem here.
Do you have a clue what the correct response to speech you disagree with is? It is more speech. It is NOT disrupting speech or shouting down speech or burning stuff or breaking stuff. It is more speech to show all the untenable position of those that preach hate. Instead the left simply demonstrates how the alt-right haters NEED to start acting to "make a difference".
Every single time the country slaps Billy for doing the very same thing they excuse or ignore when done by Bobby, they breed more Billys. You want more KKK? This is exactly how you get more KKK. Lord you folks are SO short sighted and so ignorant and so HAPPY in your short-sightedness and ignorance. Above all you are self righteous and so smug in your self righteousness. Remember, pride goith before the fall.
Sessions seems to be trying to take heat off his boss.
The point being, that the FBI bent over backwards NOT to associate the Scalise shooter with any political ideology. He was a troubled person, with a bunch of problems in his life -- with anger management issues, etc. Why aren't we getting that biography about this guy? Why is this guy's focus on the fact he's an asshole and a Nazi, not that he's a maladjusted guy with personality problems? Maybe it is because he isn't; maybe he's a normal, well-adjusted guy who just happens to be a Nazi.
But I'd like to know, because this is a complete lack of consistency.
Ouch, the burn. Sticks and stones.
I've always been impressed with Inga's complete lack of self-awareness. She engages in childish name calling and ten seconds later mis-characterizes something into that classification so she can pretend to be above it. I don't think there's ever been another commenter with such a disparity between their self and their self-image.
Blogger sunsong said...
"The largest white supremacy gathering in many years. Coincidence? No.
They believe they have a friend in the White House..."
According to CNN there were about 50 white nationalists there. If this was the largest gathering in years it makes Inga and her stupid rants look stupid.
It also makes your second sentence look stupid.
You are both here in bad faith.
And let's not use this one incident to deflect from the greater facts. Or to anoint the "counter-protesters" with goodness.
We've seen this crowd before. The collection of white supremists, neo-Nazis and other nutcases were not the reason they were there -- they were the latest excuse. The counter-protesters were not there to support the removal of a statue, they were not there really to oppose those who were protesting the removal of the statue. They were there to cause trouble, to engage in violence and spew their own version of hate.
They were there to break things, to throw rocks and bottles and human excrement at other people, cars and police, to push people and beat them with clubs and to terrorize with the fire of ignited aerosol cans. Just like they have done dozens of times in dozens of places in recent months.
LilyBart said...
Trumpers = the Venn diagram of Neo-Nazi's + White Nationalists + White Supremacists
Name calling and condemning a large group for the actions and views of a few.
Yeah, that'll make everything better.
8/14/17, 9:39 AM
"Think as I think," said a man,
"Or you are abominably wicked;
You are a toad."
And after I had thought of it,
I said: "I will, then, be a toad."
--Stephen Crane
As for Nazis...Inga, you're the only Austrian here.
When you've lost Jeff Sessions ...
@LilyBart says Yeah, that'll make everything better.
Trump carries approximately 1/3rd of the country. The remaining 2/3rd know exactly where the blame lies:
Trumpers = the Venn diagram of Neo-Nazi's + White Nationalists + White Supremacists
Is this is that statute that he was referring too?
(5) the term “domestic terrorism” means activities that—
(A) involve acts dangerous to human life that are a violation of the criminal laws of the United States or of any State;
(B) appear to be intended —
(i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population;
(ii) to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or
(iii) to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination, or kidnapping; and
(C) occur primarily within the territorial jurisdiction of the United States.
(From here)
There doesn't seem to be any mention of premeditation, only the appearance of intention. It seems vague enough that a lot of incidents could fall under it.
There were more than 10 times as many antifa socialists in Charlottesville than white nationalist socialists.
The white nationalists showed up to peacefully say a bunch of stupid amoral shit.
Over 10 times as many antifa fascists showed up with the express intent of violence to deprive people of their civil rights.
Antifa is a far bigger problem than the KKK.
The far more dangerous issue is the condoning of violence by every leftist and the police of charlottesville.
" I told you all before and I’ll repeat it now: the alt right is not conservative, and it is every bit as driven by identity politics and blood essentialism as the prog left.
Antifa, BLM, CAIR, the New Black Panthers, La Raza, the Pussy Hatters, the KKK — these are all identity movements and all formed and animated by the kind of identity politics championed by the left, and legitimated by the likes of Edward Said and other academic cultural Marxists who recognized the way to power was to divide, and then control, particular identity groups, whose narratives they seek to create and police.
The alt-right is only “right wing” in the continental sense. The American conservative is classically liberal, while the American progressive is Fabian socialist.
Don’t listen to labels; follow the assumptions made by each movement — the alt right, the prog left — and you’ll soon recognize that they are the same. This is tribalism, no more and no less. What we are witnessing is an attempt to corrupt the ideals of a propositional nation based on individualism and individual universal rights (and that’s how our Constitutional republic is designed to operate) — a lesson Google’s pillorying of a software engineer as “anti-diversity” should have made clear.
You should reject this archaic collectivism from whatever group espouses it, because in the end it is simply anti-individualism dressed in mob attire to bolster cowardice and bigotry in numbers.
You were warned."
--Jeff Goldstein
"Trump is doing more damage to American conservatism & the Republican Party than the left or Democrats ever did. Will either be salvageable?"
~ Bill Kristol
Unknown said...
Trumpers = the Venn diagram of Neo-Nazi's + White Nationalists + White Supremacists
Inga is historically illiterate. In fact we could go so far as to say she is easily the dumbest person in these blog comments.
That is why when you compare the Nazi's and brownshirts in Germany 1930's to Antifa, democrats, and idiots like Inga today intelligent people see obvious overlap in a Venn diagram.
Trump condemned all of the violence in Charlottesville. Inga and the entire left refuse to condemn Antifa.
Trump has far more moral credibility than Inga the fascist pig who wishes violence on people who disagree with her.
@sunsong, what I'd like to ask Bill Kristol is what Republican Party. After confirming Gorsuch, what have they done?
sunsong said...
"Trump is doing more damage to American conservatism & the Republican Party than the left or Democrats ever did. Will either be salvageable?"
~ Bill Kristol
Nobody cares about Bill Kristol.
Do you condemn Antifa or do you support Antifa?
Bill Kristol -- another pussy surfaces.
Sunsong is having a verbal orgasm.
A fundamentalist radical Christian is just as misguided & frightening as a fundamentalist radical Muslim. No difference.
If you live the way Christ lived, you'll heal the sick, feed the poor, commit no violence besides a single instance of flipping tables belonging to hypocrites who desecrate your religion, and help even those who come to have you executed.
If you live the way Mohammed did, you'll rape at least one child and have lots of people murdered in order to take their stuff and give it to your band of thugs.
@Bad Lieutenant says As for Nazis...Inga, you're the only Austrian here.
All of a sudden, the Trumpers are all so touchy. Wonder what nerve got hit. Which shaded area of:
Trumpers = the Venn diagram of Neo-Nazi's + White Nationalists + White Supremacists
Goldstein is right, of course. Nazis are bad.
But, I don't see the need to have written that much to say that.
"Trump is doing more damage to American conservatism & the Republican Party than the left or Democrats ever did. Will either be salvageable?"
~ Bill Kristol
"Pundits say Trump has destroyed the Republican party. I say that’s one party down, one to go. The job is only half done." – Scott Adams
Matthew Sablan: The point being, that the FBI bent over backwards NOT to associate the Scalise shooter with any political ideology. He was a troubled person, with a bunch of problems in his life -- with anger management issues, etc. Why aren't we getting that biography about this guy? Why is this guy's focus on the fact he's an asshole and a Nazi, not that he's a maladjusted guy with personality problems? Maybe it is because he isn't; maybe he's a normal, well-adjusted guy who just happens to be a Nazi.
But I'd like to know, because this is a complete lack of consistency.
You were expecting otherwise?
Of course what you say is the point. And a very straightforward and easy to understand point it is. Anyone not getting the point is either very stupid, so corrupted by ideology they can't think straight, or a dishonest dirtbag with an agenda.
You were expecting otherwise?
There are honest people out there (yes, even lefties!) who have eyes to see and are open to discussion. Maybe some of them are even lurking here. But the time for attempting to argue in good faith with the stupid and the dishonest is past. Utter waste of time.
(So is taunting them, but we all have our little failings.)
sunsong said...
"Trump is doing more damage to American conservatism & the Republican Party than the left or Democrats ever did. Will either be salvageable?"
~ Bill Kristol
8/14/17, 10:00 AM
Depending on your definition of "republican party", that might not be such a bad thing. Look what the "republican party" has done lately. They have not undone ACA, they have not done tax reform. They (as in McCain and co) seem to go out of their way to capitulate every issue. When you say "republican party" many rightfully hear GOPe. If that gets hurt some, they earned it.
Oh and remember, Trump is not conservative. He never claimed to be. His biggest selling point was and is that he is not Hillary and he was the only man in the room with balls big enough to take it to her regardless of the media and the pundits and the Democrats AND the Republicans.
The Scalise shooter was also a terrorist
Statement from Kenneth C. Frazier, Chairman & CEO, Merck:
"I am resigning from the President's American Manufacturing Council
Our country's strength stems from its diversity & the contributions made by men & women of different faiths, races, sexual orientations & political beliefs.
America's leaders must honor our fundamental values by clearly rejecting expressions of hatred, bigotry & group supremacy, which run counter to the American ideal ~
that all people are created equal.
As CEO of Merck & as a matter of personal conscience, I feel a responsibility to take a stand against intolerance & extremism."
Calling this terrorism is just a rebuke to Obama for calling Ft Hood workplace violence
What this thread needs is a little virtue signaling!
Let's say there is going to be a public Anti-Islam demonstration. A group of people are going to gather to denounce the religion of Islam and describe what they think the evils of it are.
Now let's say a local Muslim man is troubled about this and decides to attend to hopefully be able to sway some of the demonstrators that Islam is actually a force for good for millions and millions of people world wide.
At the demonstration the Muslim man sees a man in the Anti-Islam group saying some of the usual Anti-Islam lines but sees that he is younger so hopes he can sway him. He attempts to engage in conversation with the young man. Point after point the Muslim man makes is reacted to with what he views as just illogical hateful rhetoric. He continues though really hoping he can change his mind. As it continues the conversation changes tone from persuasion, to argument, to yelling to insults. Finally having gotten angry enough, the Muslim exclaims "Oh you think Muslims are evil?! I'll show you Evil! Allah Aukbar!", the muslim man then pulls out a gun and shoots the young man dead.
He is quickly subdued by nearby police and arrested. The headlines read, "Muslim man shouting God is great, shoots man at Anti-Islam demonstration."
Did the Muslim man commit an act of domestic terrorism? Or did he just commit 2nd degree mruder? Certainly people could view the act and become more reticent to express anti-Islam speech in public, but was that the Muslim man's true intent? Or did he just lose control of his anger and react to that?
This scenario is closer to what I think occurred in Charletsville.
There was the same lack of consistency on the right in discussing Dylan Roof. Of course reasonable people are completely pissed off when an innocent woman is killed by self-avowed fascists. And are angry at our useless president who can't even be bothered to condemn the white supremacists who fermented this murder.
The SPLC says there was talk on white nationalist sites that the organizer Kessler was once an Occupooper and Obama supporter. He is apparently fairly new to their movement. And a UVA grad.
"Domestic terror in Charlottesville must be condemned by every.single.one.of.us . Otherwise hate is simply emboldened."
~ Tom Scott
FTR: the Dems and GOPs intentional 30 years of selling out the American Middle class and replacing them with peasants from low wage areas has done far more harm to the American non-whites than to the few brain dead Nazi Militias.
Trump's only crime is favoring the American middle class over the goals of international monetary flow guys who hate all national borders.
BREAKING NEWS: White supremacists go after Jews with chants of "Jews will not replace us". (WSJ)
The Jewish community ain't gonna be happy with little hands Don as they really don't like people who go around dressed as Nazi's and carrying swastika flags. Really, they don't. Watch this space Trumpers.
harrogate said...
The Scalise shooter was also a terrorist
It was an attempted assassination not terrorism. Terrorism implies spreading terror amongst civilians. The politicians had taxpayer funded security guards and were saved by their personal security detail.
Statement from Kenneth C. Frazier, Chairman & CEO, Merck:
Another business leader bravely denouncing white supremacists. The balls on that guy.
Almost as big as Terry McAuliffe's.
And let us all not forget what is really driving the Charlottesville narrative: The Russia Collusion story died.
"There was no hack of the Democratic National Committee’s system on July 5 last year—not by the Russians, not by anyone else. Hard science now demonstrates it was a leak—a download executed locally with a memory key or a similarly portable data-storage device. In short, it was an inside job by someone with access to the DNC’s system. This casts serious doubt on the initial “hack,” as alleged, that led to the very consequential publication of a large store of documents on WikiLeaks last summer."
Gotta keep that out of the news.
Don't worry Inga. All of the traitors trying to pull that coup are going to jail. Get your stupid little rant in about how 50 white nationalist socialists really represent all Trump supporters. Then slink off to your hole with the other disgusting fascist filth.
We may never know his true motive.
(Just kidding)
We cannot let one act of hate by an extremist lead us to overreact and blame the larger group--that would be the real tragedy.
(Just kidding)
We have to understand the context and motivations of this individual and not just blame his actions on the mostly-peaceful people who share his ideology/faith.
(Just kidding)
Trot 'em all out. Context, nuance, empathy, concern for painting with a too-broad brush, worry about a possible backlash...none of that applies here.
I can't imagine why.
(Just kidding)
That is a unique, and grossly wrong, definition of terrorism.
The white marchers in Charlottesville were chanting "You will not replace us," meaning the foreign peasants imported as cheap labor. Nobody fears Jews replacing them.But then everybody knows that.
Matthew Sablan said...
That is a unique, and grossly wrong, definition of terrorism.
ter·ror·ism
ˈterəˌrizəm/Submit
noun
noun: terrorism
the unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims.
The Republicans will never learn that by accepting the left's terminolgy they concede the debate before they even begin arguing.
Note ARM's unusual vehemence and insistence on repeating his language in this case. He knows he is in the wrong, but is going to defend his hometown against all comers, regardless.
@ ARM
"the unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims."
How do you know the suspect carried out his actions for the pursuit of a political aim and not merely because he got murderously angry?
Sessions might be trying to take the heat off himself. His meetings with the Russians caused him enough trouble. Anyone closely associated with Trump is starting to feel the heat. Trump is taking all of these people down with him. The smart ones will continue to distance themselves from Trump. At any rate I'm glad that Sessions understands he must do the right thing and follow the letter of the law.
Me and Jeff and Sessions.
If the guy deliberately ran his car into a crowd of protesters for political purposes, it certainly does fit the definition of terrorism. As for domestic vs foreign, the distinction is not meaningful to those injured or killed, and certainly not to me.
Especially doesn't mean only. Even still, the actual statute that defines domestic terrorism was quoted above:
(5) the term “domestic terrorism” means activities that—
(A) involve acts dangerous to human life that are a violation of the criminal laws of the United States or of any State;
(B) appear to be intended —
(i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population;
(ii) to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or
(iii) to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination, or kidnapping; and
(C) occur primarily within the territorial jurisdiction of the United States.
Assassination is actually part of the definition of terrorism. It's OK if you overlooked it, but you are just wrong on this count.
sunsong said...
"I don't reject your Christ. I love your Christ. It's just that so many Christians are so unlike your Christ."
~ Mahatma Ghandi
Ghandi was one to talk. Millions died after the 1947 partition of India:
Describing the violence that accompanied the Partition of India, historians Ian Talbot and Gurharpal Singh write:
"There are numerous eyewitness accounts of the maiming and mutilation of victims. The catalogue of horrors includes the disembowelling of pregnant women, the slamming of babies' heads against brick walls, the cutting off of victims limbs and genitalia and the display of heads and corpses. While previous communal riots had been deadly, the scale and level of brutality was unprecedented. Although some scholars question the use of the term 'genocide' with respect to the Partition massacres, much of the violence was manifested with genocidal tendencies. It was designed to cleanse an existing generation as well as to prevent its future reproduction."
Hey, sunsong, none of the people who committed those atrocities were Christians.
If the guy deliberately ran his car into a crowd of protesters for political purposes, it certainly does fit the definition of terrorism.
What if a guy rear-ends another vehicle, so as to severely smash in the front of his own car? What does that say about his motivations?
No. Terrorism is planned and deliberate beforehand. There is no evidence of that here.
"Terrorism" is coming to mean really, really bad thing that happened. Once "hate crime" was enough for events like this, but as someone mentioned up above.....if muslims are going to be accused of terrorism, other people's crimes have to be terrorism or it's racist.
sunsong, lets pretend for a moment that the fellow driving the car was a supporter of the group with the permit and that he witnessed the police stand by while a very much larger group attacked the non-violent, legally permitted protest group. Now lets pretend that instead of the group with the permit being white supremacists, let them be communists. Do you get the point now? Do you understand NOW why it was wrong for the police to just stand by while the permitted group was accosted?
Do you all remember how many Republican politicians blamed Donald Trump when his Chicago campaign event got shut down by out of control Dem protesters? That was the first time in the primaries I really started to dislike Rubio or Cruz and thought Trump was being wronged.
This seems like the same thing all over again.
Another dopey day of defending the indefensible. When you've lost Jeff Sessions . . .
Calling it terrorism before an investigation presumes guilt.
"Trump attacked a black CEO for taking a stand against racism after repeatedly declining to take a stand against racism himself."
Only in Trumpland.
No one is arguing that an attempted assassination is a good thing. On the other hand, as a member of the general public, it is far less terrifying than someone flying a plane into a building or releasing sarin gas in the subway or running over pedestrians with a car.
Politicians, even minor ones like Jo Cox, are always potential targets for assassination. By and large the public is quite sanguine about this risk, make of that what you will.
"Do you all remember how many Republican politicians blamed Donald Trump when his Chicago campaign event got shut down by out of control Dem protesters?"
-- Trump opting to shut down his rally to stop potential violence was one of the few things that people should have agreed was a good move. All it did, though, was embolden the violent protestors.
No one is saying you're arguing it is a good thing. You were arguing it wasn't domestic terrorism. So, we showed you the literal statute that says it is.
If you don't think it should be that, that's fine. People think things should or shouldn't be counted as things frequently. They're just wrong. Like you are here.
@traditionalguy says The white marchers in Charlottesville were chanting "You will not replace us," meaning the foreign peasants imported as cheap labor
Selective hearing and sight.
AReasonableMan said...
It was an attempted assassination not terrorism. Terrorism implies spreading terror amongst civilians.
To reach ARM's conclusion you must believe shooting people doesn't "spread terror" among anyone except the person shot. Who could possibly write this without stopping halfway through and changing their comment to "yeah that was terrorism"?
Only those blinded by their politics.
The statute was written by politicians - some self-interest involved in that definition. The general usage by the little people, such as myself, is different.
Ann Althouse said...
Presumably Sessions has access to evidence we have not yet seen. You have to know more about the intentions of the accused to know.
I hope Sessions isn't just trying to appease and win favor.
8/14/17, 9:30 AM
I hope that it doesn't amount to command influence, jury tampering, or prejudgment in some form which will contaminate due process. Trump in this sense has been more measured than Sessions or any of them.
No one is arguing that an attempted assassination is a good thing. On the other hand, as a member of the general public, it is far less terrifying than someone flying a plane into a building or releasing sarin gas in the subway or running over pedestrians with a car.
True.
But just a few weeks ago, a guy in Times Square did a u-turn and ran over the sidewalk full of pedestrians, killing one woman and injuring more. And we were told it was a drunk driver and that was the end of it. That's just as terrifying as this incident though, right?
Was the shooting of U.S. Representative Gabrielle Giffords terrorism?
The guy most reminds me of the Times Square driver from some months back. I hope there is not a trend of weaponizing cars in crowds. Talk about impossible to prevent.
ARM:
Yes, it was
@traditionalguy says Trump's only crime is favoring the American middle class over the goals of international monetary flow guys who hate all national borders.
Yeah, right. Significant Russian money has been flowing into Trump's various business for at least two decades.
Put mouth into gear before opening it.
Maybee we must have been typing same time!
MayBee said...
it was a drunk driver and that was the end of it. That's just as terrifying as this incident though
Having had a friend killed by a drunk driver I do in fact drive very defensively when the probability of drunks being on the road is high. So yes, drunk drivers are terrorizing law abiding people at some level.
"Was the shooting of U.S. Representative Gabrielle Giffords terrorism?"
-- Yes, by a man who wanted to terrorize people into accepting that the government was trying to control them through grammar, or some such.
You don't have to be lucid to be a terrorist.
AReasonableMan said...
Was the shooting of U.S. Representative Gabrielle Giffords terrorism?
8/14/17, 10:43 AM
No, it was not. Remember, a Republican judge was fatally murdered in the same attack.
You like to forget about that man.
Next stupid question from you?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jared_Lee_Loughner
Here's the background on Loughner. Note this is apolitical mental illness driven nonsense yet ARM still claims it is terrorism because a Democrat was targeted and thus it allows him to blame those he hates. Meanwhile he incorrectly parses definitions to defend his allies.
According to a former friend, Bryce Tierney, Loughner had expressed a longstanding dislike for Gabrielle Giffords. Tierney recalled that Loughner had often said that women should not hold positions of power.[45][46] He repeatedly derided Giffords as a "fake". This belief intensified after he attended her August 25, 2007 event when she did not, in his view, sufficiently answer his question: "What is government if words have no meaning?"[20] Loughner kept Giffords' form letter, which thanked him for attending the 2007 event, in the same box as an envelope which was scrawled with phrases like "die bitch" and "assassination plans have been made".[47]
Matthew, I don't agree that the Giffords shooting was terrorism. Loughner was a lone crazy with no followers besides ones he heard in his head.
Was Charles Manson a terrorist? He had followers and was trying to bring about a race war. I'm not sure, but he fits the description better than Loughner does.
Yeah, right. Significant Russian money has been flowing into Trump's various business for at least two decades.
I'm not from Missouri, but SHOW ME.
"As CEO of Merck & as a matter of personal conscience, I feel a responsibility to take a stand against intolerance & extremism."
So, a Pharma CEO is now an object of honor and virtue? Any port in a storm, I suppose.
I think Loughner counts as terrorism because he did have a political goal, even if it was a completely irrational one. It wasn't as if he had a personal grudge against Giffords for a personal slight; he honestly had some hang up about grammar.
It doesn't make him lucid, but he was hoping to enact political change through violence, which is enough for the statute (this may be an argument that the statute should take into account the alleged terrorist's mental state, however.)
Troublingly, I agree with exiledonmainstreet and Rick on this issue, and do not think of the attempted assassination of Gabrielle Giffords as terrorism. The problematic nature of this consensus however will cause me to consider rethinking this issue in the coming months.
Usually after a terrorist attack, there are lefties posting all over twitter either saying, or praising others for saying things like:
"We heard there was a stabbing at the pub next door, but we just kept drinking our pints"
or
"The only way to really disrupt London is to stand on the left of the escalator"
Where is that attitude now? That old, this isn't existential we can't be arsed attitude?
It wasn't as if he had a personal grudge against Giffords for a personal slight; he honestly had some hang up about grammar.
To be terrorism he would have to have targeted Giffords to encourage others to adopt his beliefs. There's no evidence of that.
but he was hoping to enact political change through violence,
What political change was he seeking? Rather it seems it was a personal grudge driven by her non-response. Loughner happened to fixate on her, it wasn't political.
"Where is that attitude now? That old, this isn't existential we can't be arsed attitude?"
-- There was a time we were told we could "absorb" a terrorist attack. Thankfully, people seem to have realized that was a terrible idea.
I could be wrong in remembering; I thought that his biggest issue was something to do with government control of language.
MayBee said...
Where is that attitude now?
I am doing my part by trying to limit mission creep for the word terrorism.
Are assassins terrorists? An interesting question because they operate in the political arena, yet their main goal is to not create terror per se but effect political change. Was Gustav Princip a terrorist? He certainly effected political change, but the assassination of Ferdinand itself didn't cause terror among the citizenry.
The Bernie supporter shooter doesn't count.
Because leftwing Pro-D hack MSM.
readering - jinx!
ARM- ha!
I think we really all know terrorism when we see it. We know 9/11 was terrorism. We know the Unabomber was terrorism. We know Eric Robert Rudolph was terrorism.
But not all hate crimes, political targets, and terrifying events are terrorism.
We can all admit games are being played to kind of 'even up' who gets called a terrorist, right?
Let's hear it for leftwing death threats. You guys are awesome.
It's not always easy to say what should be called terrorism and what not. Good debaters can wrestle with particular examples and disagree, and that's not a big deal. But if you're stuck on "you only call my side terrorists" crybabyism you shouldn't be arguing with grownups.
Sure, there's probably some who probably use "terrorist" the way Achilles uses "Stalinist" - but what's the upside of arguing with those people? Other than finding someone who is using labels dishonestly so you can label the entire side you disagree with as people who use labels dishonestly.
Grow up. Think clearly. Find a conscience.
What is especially enlightening is that the usual suspects don't even need a trial. It's only a formality. The guy i'd guilty. If not for being a white supremist for wrong think.
The guy most reminds me of the Times Square driver from some months back. I hope there is not a trend of weaponizing cars in crowds. Talk about impossible to prevent.
One of the first arguments I made when I came on here a few months (?) ago was that different groups would soon be using Middle East terrorist's tactics to further their agendas.
Boy did I get hooted at by the usuals. I was told in effect I was trying to take the pressure off of Muslims.
I still think you will probably see other groups using more of these tactics, and not just the car and truck plow. Not just fas vs antifas.
exiledonmainstreet,
Do you right wingers ever take responsibility for anything?
Your side just killed an innocent women in a terrorist act and injured about 19 others...
Terrorism is the use of terror to try to get what you want. If you can cow the general population to acquiescence to your demands, that works. If you can cow the politicians to do whatever you want to protect themselves, that also works. Usually the only exception to the terrorist definition is when the targets are soldiers or other forces dedicated to fighting the terrorists as that is war. Even then we generally do not consider murdering a soldier's family be anything but terrorism.
As far as Charlottesville is concerns, it was one group of fascists fighting another group of slightly different fascists. I consider it to be a Hitler vs. Stalin situation. The fact that many respectable people have decided that one group of fascists is okay by them is disturbing. The fact that it appears the authorities wanted a riot for their own ends is detestable.
We have the worst ruling class in our history. This will end very badly.
Our fastest growing groups aren't Latinos or other minorities. The fastest growing group in America and probably in the world are narcissistic and self-centered people who feel personally offended by some other people to the point that killing them sounds great.
It's the disease of self-importance.
Bill Kristol says that Trump is damaging, indeed may even destroying the Republican Party. Watching clowns like McCain, Ryan etc, I would say that the Republican Party's destruction at the federal level at least is a self inflicted wound. If you won't stand for something, you will stand for anything at all.
sunsong: Do you right wingers ever take responsibility for anything?
Who are we supposed to take responsibility for exactly? Nazis are not on my side. I do not support their goals, I condemn them at any opportunity, and I think the destruction of their Third Reich was one of the greatest goods of the 20th century. The only people who keep insisting that they are on my side are people like you. Why do you insist that I am a Nazi? You do realize there is no point of negotiation once you cross that line? It is either surrender or war.
Also, sunsong, quoting Matthew Dowd on any topic is embarrassing. You can do better.
Wait, so ARM would have us believe Congress Critters are not civilians?
New levels of dense to be plumbed.
@sunsong says Do you right wingers ever take responsibility for anything?
No, they do not.
EVERY problem in their life is caused by the OTHER.
Funny thing is, Trump takes zero responsibility for anything either. It is always someone else's fault.
A bit of advice about dealing with the nut jobs on this site - don't ever get into any discussions or arguments with them because they stopped listening when the slaves were set free.
"the unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims."
"How do you know the suspect carried out his actions for the pursuit of a political aim and not merely because he got murderously angry?"
If you are talking about the guy arrested for killing that woman - so far all the evidence seems to point at fear, and not premeditation, as his motive. And, yes, if he just got murderously angry, hit the gas, etc, then that probably wouldn't be sufficient for domestic terrorism. Still, 2nd Degree Murder is likely the much more serious charge.
But, that gets to my next point - why does everyone assume that AG Sessions will primarily looking at the White nationalists, etc? They really wereent the ones there to intimidate their opponents through violence and threats thereof. They got a permit, which the police apparently vacated because the Antifa fascist thugs were threatening violence. And then did engage in violence. I think that a lot of people aren't thinking this through at the national level. The national press, etc, have just given Sessions a green light going after the Democrats' mllitant wing (which used to be, of course, the KKK, until made a laughing stock by the exposure of their secrets on TV). Sure, a couple neo-Bazis may get taken down too, but the DoJ and its FBI would have to stand on their heads with their eyes closed to ignore which group came to town to intimidate through violence and the threat thereof.
People need to calm down.
I would ask my liberal friends whether they've changed their view on peaceful demonstrations by bad groups. Myself, I am generally for free speech. I would have no problem with the Communist party having a parade, and I would not counter demonstrate or try to stop them, assuming it was peaceful. Ditto for the Nazis, BLM, Antifa, or KKK.
The counter-demonstrations are what causes friction, escalates tensions, and sometimes leads to violence.
"It's not always easy to say what should be called terrorism and what not. Good debaters can wrestle with particular examples and disagree, and that's not a big deal. But if you're stuck on "you only call my side terrorists" crybabyism you shouldn't be arguing with grownups."
Brookzene, if I had seen you argue in good faith more often I would heartily agree with you on this statement. However we both know that has not been the case, so I am forced to read your statement in the larger context of past comments and just pass it by as another one sided attack. You can't just reach out to the center when it suits your purpose and expect acceptance of your argument from the right even when we are in agreement.
For what it is worth.
Dickin'Bimbos@Home said...
I'm not defending the guy, but if he was scared for his life, and being attacked with baseball bats - we need to know that.
If he plowed into people intentionally - yes - we call that terrorism.
John Sexton at HotAir advises us that the winning narrative will ultimately determine the facts on the ground:
"Meanwhile, there is still some confusion over whether this was intentional or not. From a reporter who was on the scene:
The driver was taken into police custody right after the incident. Police say the car was covered in dents prior and apparently hit by a bat
— Taylor Lorenz (@TaylorLorenz) August 12, 2017
His car was being swarmed by protesters and some of them were getting violent (like the guy who punched me/threw me down)
— Taylor Lorenz (@TaylorLorenz) August 12, 2017
Here’s a Washington Post reporter who was on the scene. He also heard from witnesses that this was an intentional attack but notes that police are not certain of this yet:
[Tweets]
To be clear, I’m not disputing the eyewitnesses accounts, just noting that, so far, the police seem less confident."
Obviously, James Fields doesn't enjoy the same position Glenn Reynolds did when the latter advanced his "run 'em over" option.
Having had some experience with Nazis - the real ones - I am very sorry to see the term bandied about so freely by and about people neither of which have any notion what an evil Nazism was.
One can only hope that Beltway Jeff will also notice the felonious violation of the civil rights of the permitted demonstrators as pointed out by instapundit.
A few prosecutions for that will discourage the left and their minions from clubbing otherwise peaceful demonstrators.
Static Ping,
I like Matthew Dowd. Get over it :-)
The 'unite right march' says it all, doesn't it.
Don't you read the commenters here? It's all about generalizing, lumping people into either 'our side' or 'the other side'. All leftists are____ and it never ends. Suddenly, the shoe is on the other foot and you no longer want to generalize and assume?
As to the topic at hand, the hit and run/homicide could be terrorism and is worthy of investigation. Terrorism requires state of mind findings which are currently not in evidence. This could be anything from terrorism to road rage to a scared man panicking. That's why we have investigations rather than, say, letting the mob hang him from the nearest tree.
The narrative being pushed is to assume the worst. While that assumption may be correct, it is a narrative being pushed regardless whether it is true or not by the same people who have pushed similar narratives in the past and are clearly politically biased. I have no time for their latest installment.
Saying things like this seems deeply dishonest: "reasonable people are completely pissed off when an innocent woman is killed by self-avowed fascists". Only one fascist killed anyone Saturday. Why lie and pretend it was more than one?
sunsong thinks conservatives have a side.
Tell me which side is trying to reduce the size and spending, the reach and the grasping of the federal government and I've found my side.
What a foolish, ignorant worldview.
Trump caved in to pressure and actually condemned KKK, NeoNazi and White Supremacists, said they were repugnant.
""Racism is evil and those who cause violence in its name are criminals and thugs, including the KKK, neo-Nazis, white supremacists and other hate groups that are repugnant to everything we hold dear as Americans," Trump said at the White House."
Too little, too late.
70 years ago or so, someone remarked that Nazism was so discredited a term that if it again reared its head in America, it would be under the banner of the "American Freedom Party," or some such heading.
And you could say the same for "Communism." The world's socialist parties now generally disown not just the communist label, but also the milder socialist, and claim to be just "social democrats."
Except Bernie Sanders, the world's sole "democrat socialist."
I can just see all these guys when they get to prison. The neo-Nazis, White supremists, etc would just slide into the larger White prison population, even somewhat the heros. Well protected from the other prison gangs. But the Antifa fascist thugs? "Oh, you are here because you wanted to beat up White supremacists? You wouldn't want to hang out with us then - why don't you go and try the NBP over there? Or maybe the Hispanics over there? Wrong colored skin? Not our problem".
sunsong said...
Do you right wingers ever take responsibility for anything?
Your side just killed an innocent women in a terrorist act and injured about 19 others...
Must have missed sunsong accepting responsibility for this:
Sniper Ambush Kills 5 Officers, Injures 7 in Dallas Following Peaceful Protest
People are only responsible for their own actions. Adults know this, I'm tired of frothers trying to smear everyone they hate.
The Left loses elections. So, they rant and rave and protest and riot and counter-demonstrate and demand that folks "denounce" Neo-Nazis and the KKK and the Confederate flag and Milo Y -- wait Milo? Why should I denounce Milo? He's simply a virtuous troll.
Will any left of center folks here advise whether they believe that groups they oppose (see above deplorables) have a First Amendment right to peacefully march and assemble?
It all starts with that.
Better than the "work Place violence" tag that Obama gave to the Domestic Terrorist Nadal..... Funny how the left is all of a sudden concerned about domestic terrorism after 8 years of ignoring it....
@Rick,
Those are isolated incidents! .
AReasonableMan said...
[I] do not think of the attempted assassination of Gabrielle Giffords as terrorism.
It's pretty amusing he's finally giving up this canard he's been pushing for the better part of a decade. That he positions himself as responsible for reaching this conclusion years after everyone else is surely funnier though.
""Racism is evil and those who cause violence in its name are criminals and thugs, including the KKK, neo-Nazis, white supremacists and other hate groups that are repugnant to everything we hold dear as Americans," Trump said at the White House."
Too little, too late.
Really. At this point, why bother Donald? Your aren't credible.
("...to everything we hold dear as Americans, except the White House itself, which as you know is such a dump.")
Big mistake to name groups.
Name wishing ill to others.
It gets at the right thing, and it divides the groups that are a problem to being an American, into those who agree with American rules and those who don't.
Who cares what they believe is true. It's then just a case of being mistaken, not a case of being evil.
That's the president's job, not group disavowing. Uphold the constitution.
Why lie and pretend it was more than one?
They're progressives. It's what they do.
Remember, conservatives are to blame for violence from the Right, but also violence from the Left, since it was provoked by conservatives.
If you drive your car into a crowd, you wish them ill; unless there's additional facts to consider.
It recalls Austin's Three Ways of Spilling Ink. It could be deliberate, on purpose, but not intentional.
sunsong said...
Static Ping,
I like Matthew Dowd. Get over it :-)
The 'unite right march' says it all, doesn't it.
Only if you are a fucking idiot and arguing in bad faith.
Don't you read the commenters here? It's all about generalizing, lumping people into either 'our side' or 'the other side'. All leftists are____ and it never ends. Suddenly, the shoe is on the other foot and you no longer want to generalize and assume?
The difference is we condemn violence and racism fro the KKK and whomever this group of white nationalist socialists was. We don't like them and don't support them.
You leftists explicitly support BLM, La Raza, and Antifa. You support their violence. You support their racism. You support their murdering of police officers all over the nation.
Debbie Wasserman who??
Good to condemn the KKK, also worth condemning the radical hate filled fascist left.
Not much daylight in-between the two.
sunsung: The 'unite right march' says it all, doesn't it.
No, it says very little actually. People claim to fraudulently represent other people all the time. I also don't believe that the Democratic People's Republic of Korea is democratic or cares at all about the people other than ensuring their obedience. Antifa is clearly a fascist organization but claims to be anti-fascist. Examples of this sort of thing are legion.
There are not two sides for which I must choose with everyone conveniently falling into one group or the other. Nazis are out on their own island, perhaps intermingling with some other tiny fringe groups, well away from anything resembling mainstream society. I will certainly declare my allegiance to the anti-tyranny party, as such as it exists, which puts me in the situation of despising about every faction of protesters at Charlottesville.
Of course, if you are going to declare I am Nazi no matter what I do then you will have your two groups: sunsong's group and not sunsong's group. The irony here is Trump is calling for unity and you are calling for war. Do reconsider.
Ralph L Donald Trump did just that yesterday. Didn't make one damned difference.
rookzene said...
""Racism is evil and those who cause violence in its name are criminals and thugs, including the KKK, neo-Nazis, white supremacists and other hate groups that are repugnant to everything we hold dear as Americans," Trump said at the White House."
Too little, too late.
Really. At this point, why bother Donald? Your aren't credible.
Says the supporter of Antifa, Black Lives Matter, and La Raza.
Says the supporter of Antifa, Black Lives Matter, and La Raza.
And don't forget ISIS.
I have no idea what the KKK thinks. Surely it's evolved since it was all democrats and lynchings.
Says the supporter of Antifa, Black Lives Matter, and La Raza.
Snort. What a fucked up troll you are Achilles.
I've never even heard of La Raza.
It's too late because Trump is disavowing the wrong thing.
Not strictly because it's too late.
Says the supporter of Antifa, Black Lives Matter, and La Raza.
Troll just makes shit up.
"I don't think there's ever been another commenter with such a disparity between their self and their self-image."
Ahem.
"The difference is we condemn violence and racism fro the KKK and whomever this group of white nationalist socialists was. We don't like them and don't support them."
Yes you do.
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