“You can be sure we will charge and advance the investigation toward the most serious charges that can be brought because this is unequivocally an unacceptable evil attack,” Mr. Sessions said, adding that terrorism and civil rights investigators were working on the case....
The “domestic terrorism” language is largely symbolic — many of the law's stiffest penalties are for international terrorism that do not apply domestically. But the debate over language has raged for more than a decade, as Muslim groups in particular argue that the word terrorism is used only when the attackers are Muslim....
August 14, 2017
"It does meet the definition of domestic terrorism in our statute."
Said Jeff Sessions, speaking of the Charlottesville incident (NYT).
Subscribe to:
Post Comments (Atom)
Posts
479 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 400 of 479 Newer› Newest»It is interesting that Buzzfeed reports that the white supremacist and Nazi groups arrived "carrying shields, protective gear [and] used militarized defensive maneuvers," including forming "a line of shields or a phalanx [to] shepherd someone through projectiles."
Now why would they be so defensively minded? Why did they feel the need to protect themselves and expect to be attacked?
"I'm not defending the guy, but if he was scared for his life, and being attacked with baseball bats - we need to know that.
If he plowed into people intentionally - yes - we call that terrorism.
John Sexton at HotAir advises us that the winning narrative will ultimately determine the facts on the ground:
"Meanwhile, there is still some confusion over whether this was intentional or not. From a reporter who was on the scene:
The driver was taken into police custody right after the incident. Police say the car was covered in dents prior and apparently hit by a bat
— Taylor Lorenz (@TaylorLorenz) August 12, 2017
His car was being swarmed by protesters and some of them were getting violent (like the guy who punched me/threw me down)
— Taylor Lorenz (@TaylorLorenz) August 12, 2017
Obviously, James Fields doesn't enjoy the same position Glenn Reynolds did when the latter advanced his "run 'em over" option."
Reynolds is a law professor who has had a concealed carry permit for years. Which means that he very likely knows the laws on self-defense far better than most of his critics. But that also means that he has the resources to successfully defend himself that this guy does not, and is less likely to make a misstep.
But, this reinforces my point from yesterday that the defendant will have to show the basis of fear in order to be acquitted of 2nd Degree Murder. And, every dent in his car will be indicia that his (theoretical) imminent fear of death or great bodily injury (which includes broken bones) was reasonable. Those bats that were (apparently, maybe) used on his car, could just as easily broken his bones and caused great bodily injury, or even death. That is the critical narrative - the one that the jury believes: Was he fearing for his life (Self defense)? Or engaging in a grossly dangerous activity for no good reason (depraved heart/mind 2nd Degree Murder)?
Has the Left denounced their association with Fred Phelps?
Says the supporter of Antifa, Black Lives Matter, and La Raza.
And don't forget ISIS.
You don't have to use over-the-top sarcasm on my behalf, mockturtle. I got this.
"And don't forget ISIS."
NaziBoy used ISIS tactics to murder his victim.
Unknown said...
@sunsong says Do you right wingers ever take responsibility for anything?
No, they do not.
EVERY problem in their life is caused by the OTHER.
Funny thing is, Trump takes zero responsibility for anything either. It is always someone else's fault.
This is the definition of bad faith. Nobody here supports the 50 white nationalist socialists in Charlottesville. Nobody wants them around. Nobody agrees wit what they say or what they want. They are just the few democrats from 50 years ago that never gave up on slavery or Jim Crow.
A bit of advice about dealing with the nut jobs on this site - don't ever get into any discussions or arguments with them because they stopped listening when the slaves were set free.
We freed the slaves from the Democrats. Don't ever forget that. The same people that run affirmative action, planned parenthood, Jim Crow, Slavery, Eugenics, segregated schools then and now are trying to divide this nation by race and by any other means they can. They mean to destroy the foundations of our civil society.
Make no mistake the Inga's of this world want race war and violence. It is their only path to power now that their Russian Collusion Coup failed. They are traitorous filth and they will lose.
Unknown said...
"The difference is we condemn violence and racism fro the KKK and whomever this group of white nationalist socialists was. We don't like them and don't support them."
Yes you do.
This is the absolute definition of bad faith. You are a piece of shit pure and simple.
"Now why would they be so defensively minded? Why did they feel the need to protect themselves and expect to be attacked?"
The Nazis also came armed with clubs and guns.
Brookzene said...
Says the supporter of Antifa, Black Lives Matter, and La Raza.
Troll just makes shit up.
Denounce them then. And denounce Obama and the democrat party for funding, organizing, and supporting and honoring them.
I am going to make a list of disfavored groups. And, then, henceforth, I will use the phrase "Disfavored Groups" as a shorthand version to refer to the following:
Disfavored Groups:
1. Real Nazis (pre-1945 era when we kicked their butt. See Normandy Invasion, see Battle of Bulge)
2. Neo-Nazis (those clueless folks who like the Swastikas)
3. Real KKK (the political arm of the Southern Democratic Party up until the 70s)
4. Modern Day KKK (powerless idiots like David Duke)
5. Real Communists (Socialists supported by the Soviet Union pre fall of Berlin Wall)
6. Real Confederates (Southerners from 1860 who lost the Civil War, and their heirs who supported Jim Crowe until 1960)
7. White Supremecists (Not sure who these folks are, but I don't like 'em)
8. Antifa (Because they show up to quash free speech with violence)
9. BLM (Because they riot, break things, and cause death; see Ferguson, see Dallas snipers)
10. Muslim terrorists (Osama, Al Queda, Isis, Muslim Brotherhood, Hamas, Hezbollah)
Whew -- what a list. There are a lot of Disfavored Groups out there!
Two questions:
1. Do Disfavored Groups have a 1st Amendment Right to free speech and assembly, specifically, peaceful marching in public?
2. If so, is it a good idea to counter-demonstrate when Disfavored Groups exercise said rights?
Brookzene supports Democrats. Democrats support Pro-Fa, BLM and La Raza. Therefore, by the very theory that people who voted for Donald Trump (and against Hillary Clinton) are somehow responsible for the car driving knucklehead about whom none of us had heard last week...
Brookzene supports all the groups she claims not to know.
"Says the supporter of Antifa, Black Lives Matter, and La Raza".
This is the absolute definition of bad faith. You are a piece of shit pure and simple.
Nobody here supports the 50 white nationalist socialists in Charlottesville.
What did they want?
Nobody is listing the beliefs of all these groups.
Derbyshire gave a catalog, but I don't know who's who in this case.
Only a very narrow segment of the vast "White anythings" wish anybody ill.
http://www.johnderbyshire.com/Opinions/RadioDerb/2016-12-02.html
(see item 5)
Sunsong blazes new trails in the domain of single minded stupidly by quoting his fellow travelers while Unknown projects.
The demonstrators were likely espousing offensive views (I wasn't there, didn't see). They had a permit to do so. Charlottesville is in the United States. The counterprotesters did not have a permit to demonstrate or to disrupt the permitted demonstration. The police were obliged to protect the civil rights of the permit holders and didn't do so. People were injured and a woman was killed.
The arrival of the left and their minions at demonstrations regularly, if not always, precedes violence. Portland, San Jose, Sacramento, Berkeley, Baltimore, etc., now Charlottesville, attest. Local Democrat electeds direct the cops to stand down. People are injured.
What part of this should "right wingers" take responsibility for, Sunsong, Unknown, some loon using a car to ram people?
If it's about the statue, there's a lot of support for the statue.
Grace in defeat for starters. You can lose a war, you can lose an election.
The statue may be needed at the moment.
Denounce them then.
You and your McCarthy-like moods. Who really has Stalinist proclivities, Achilles? Hmmm?
I suspect that today the KKK consists of David Duke and his Rolodex with publcists' addresses.
Unknown said...
"Says the supporter of Antifa, Black Lives Matter, and La Raza".
This is the absolute definition of bad faith. You are a piece of shit pure and simple.
Obama and the democrat party have invited in and supported all of these groups. The DNC was caught on video paying them to go to Trump rallies. Obama invited BLM to the white house several times. Each one of these groups is main stream in the democrat party.
Trump as denounced the KKK. So has every notable republican.
I know you are stupid but even with a 60 or so IQ you know the difference.
Antifa or neo-national socialists?
[class] diversitists or color supremacists?
Something triggered the situation, which was followed by a confluence of dysfunction, which was exacerbated by incompetent or malicious governance.
Brookzene said...
Denounce them then.
You and your McCarthy-like moods. Who really has Stalinist proclivities, Achilles? Hmmm?
Are you just purposely being stupid?
sunsong said:
Your side just killed an innocent women in a terrorist act and injured about 19 others...
8/14/17, 11:35 AM
"My side" did nothing.
This is where logic, which you have admitted you have a very weak grasp of, comes in handy.
Your knowledge of Gandhi and history isn't very good either. That's why you pull out these noble sounding quotes without any real knowledge of the historical figures who uttered them. They're just nice Hallmark card sentiments to you.
agar said...
I suspect that today the KKK consists of David Duke and his Rolodex with publcists' addresses.
For every three members of the KKK:
-Two are FBI informants
-One is a guy too dumb to figure out the other two guys are FBI informants. Even after they show him their badges.
If we talk about events that happened in the 1970s Brookzene will have to search the internet for information before she comments. This might slow her inanity.
Nobody mention anything in her wheelhouse: the past week.
ISIS likes to remove all traces of history, too.
color supremacists and neo-national socialists... Now why would they be so defensively minded?
Historical precedent. The Democrats have persisted to replace one-child policy with what is arguably a greater threat to civil society: selective-child.
Left vs Left. Hopefully, the Left will lose.
Traitors are getting nervous:
"Forensic investigations of documents made public two weeks prior to the July 5 leak by the person or entity known as Guccifer 2.0 show that they were fraudulent: Before Guccifer posted them they were adulterated by cutting and pasting them into a blank template that had Russian as its default language. Guccifer took responsibility on June 15 for an intrusion the DNC reported on June 14 and professed to be a WikiLeaks source—claims essential to the official narrative implicating Russia in what was soon cast as an extensive hacking operation. To put the point simply, forensic science now devastates this narrative."
Games up losers. Yelling RACIST! at the top of your lungs wont make this go away. There are a bunch of democrats and deep staters going to jail.
Personally, I don't think they should remove the statue of Robert E. Lee. While I don't believe the South's cause in 1860 was noble, I do think the defeated General Lee's peace with Grant was noble, and helped the country re-unite and heal, after a horrible war.
The Reconstruction period was pretty bad too for the South, but alas that's what happens to the defeated.
Most of this brouhahah though is merely a means used by the Left to try to obtain power. For some reason, they enjoy calling people "racists!" They think it makes them morally superior and wins elections. It works politically on the elite coasts, but not too much elsewhere.
So, there's that.
Isn't KKK a Democrat created and affiliated outfit?
The Dems like to pretend they are a completely different party, these days, but we all know that it is still the Dems (and not the R's) who want the government to parcel out racial privilege. Two thirds of Americans oppose racial preferences in hiring and college admissions. Dems are all in for it.
Oh shit. Facebook is building a data center down the road. Another huge low building where cornfields used to be.
Fortunately no traffic. 50 jobs, lots of electricity.
Love how the Republicans are being lambasted to disavow the handful of extremists who showed up, got a permit, then got shut down when the usual left wing fascist thugs showed up to prevent them from marching through threats of, and actual violence, and no one seems to be requiring this of the Democrats, that hey disavow the violent thugs in their midst. Where were Crooked Hillary, Fauxhantis Warren, Obama, Schumer, Gov McAuliffe, etc here? Who was calling on them to disavow their Antifa fascist thugs, whose purpose there was to prevent the White supremists, etc their Constitutional right to assemble peaceably through the use of violence?
"What part of this should "right wingers" take responsibility for, Sunsong, Unknown, some loon using a car to ram people?"
https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?postID=2492034265777474177&blogID=6329595&isPopup=false&page=2
Blogger Char Char Binks said...
"Even if Machiavelli rose from the grave and wrote the decree himself, it is still the right of the burghers of Charlottesville to decide what fucking statues they put up in their own fucking park."
True, and if that is the will of the people of Charlotte, by popular vote or by act of the burghers, the statue should be removed, but it's still the right of the people to protest that decision, and to try to influence the government to change it. The alt-right were exercising their 1A rights to peaceably assemble and speak. The Anti-First-Amendment Blackshirts were there not to demonstrate for the statue's removal (they already won that fight) but, by criminal acts of intimidation, force, and violence, to deny the people the right to protest. They were there for the feeling of moral superiority in their virtue signaling and for the more visceral thrill of street fighting. I'm glad at least one of them was killed.
8/13/17, 11:05 PM
"Before Guccifer posted them they were adulterated by cutting and pasting them into a blank template that had Russian as its default language."
Good Lord! This is ludicrous! Anyone can set up a word processor to use any language they like. If this is how our spies determine if a doc originated in a certain country, we should disband them and start over.
What would it mean if the template had en_GB as it's default language? Would they BOLO for James Bond or Simon Templar?
Picking scabs off old wounds as a substitute for not having a current message and program.
@Achilles - you forgot to mention that Julian Assange has denied from the first that Guccifer 2.0 was the source of the Wikileaks docs, and that the source of the template used by him was the Obama White House in general, and Joe Biden's technical guy in particular.
I'd assume the KKK supports Trump because Trump is against those who wish them ill.
That was the right instinct on Trump's part.
Trump ought to be against those in the KKK who wish others ill, not the KKK.
Consistency wins. Inconsistency makes things complicated, like lying does.
Clarify, edit, trim.
If it was an elective abortion, then he should be processed by the Planned Parenthood corporation. If it was justified self-defense, then investigate the motives of the Antifa mob, and the incompetent or malicious governance that was a first-order forcing of catastrophic anthropogenic [local] climate change. Also, the [class] diversitists who persist to replace the Democratic one-child policy of yesteryear with a selective-child policy.
Where is the link, Achilles?
"Good Lord! This is ludicrous! Anyone can set up a word processor to use any language they like. If this is how our spies determine if a doc originated in a certain country, we should disband them and start over."
Worse, maybe, the author listed in the Word document metadata for at least 3 of these docs was a Biden staffer.
The truth of the matter is the Left badly needs to paint all conservatives and Trump voters as racist because they can't possibly permit blacks and Hispanics to stray off their Democrat plantation. They wouldn't win elections even in blue cities if that happened. Screaming "racist!!" takes minority attention away from the shitholes Democrats have made of American inner cities and the failure of Democrat policies and programs to do anything but keep blacks and Hispanics feeling angry and victimized. (Which is really all they are designed to do. The last thing the Dems want to do is "solve" poverty.)
Also, thankfully, our vibrant democracy settles most domestic disputes with free elections -- and we will have an election in 2018. And, some of the voters will have odd views, perhaps distasteful views, and some will belong to certain groups, even, perhaps, Disfavored Groups.
But, as long as they vote legally, their votes still count.
They say past is prologue. In the recent past, the Dems have been LOSING elections. They ignore the plight of working class folks and focus their time and energy on, well, distracting other stuff. Also, in the primaries, the Dem establishment sunk the campaign of a man named Bernie Sanders.
So, there's that.
Are you just purposely being stupid?
I know you have two moods: slobber yourself on Trump's dick and troll althouse. But someone should tell you that "Denounce who I tell you to denounce or I will use it as evidence you that support them!" is not really a grown-up argument.
For a baby with messy diapers maybe it's the best you can do, Achilles, eh?
~
Edward Bernays has been resurrected from the dead.
Why can't Trump just say that he hates white people? What's his problem?
Brookzene:
Have you tried to convince the left that "'Denounce who I tell you to denounce or I will use it as evidence you that support them!' is not really a grown-up argument"? Because that's exactly how they're treating Trump and everyone else to the right of Bernie Sanders.
If Althouse Lefties ever arrange a meet-up and bus trip I hope there aren't two empty seats.
Don't forget:
Reagan was literally Hitler.
Bush Was Literally Hitler.
Dole was literally Hitler.
Bush was Literally Literaly! Hitler.
McCain was Literally Hitler.
Romney killed people with cancer and was literally Hitler.
That Trump caved in on demands for him to change his language on this issue shows what desperate straits he is in politically. He would never have caved into demands like this if he were in a stronger political position. I am actually surprised that he did, although he did insist on Trumpeting how great the Obama economy was doing before he went the full anti-fascist.
Brookzene just condemned Inga and ARM who were tarring the entire non-Left this morning.
Also, Brookzene's position supports Trump.
"They're just nice Hallmark card sentiments to you."
exiledonmainstreet, I love this line.
"Isn't KKK a Democrat created and affiliated outfit?
The Dems like to pretend they are a completely different party, these days, but we all know that it is still the Dems (and not the R's) who want the government to parcel out racial privilege. Two thirds of Americans oppose racial preferences in hiring and college admissions. Dems are all in for it."
For most of a century, the KKK were the Democrats' shock troops, their militant wing, their own brown shirts. But, then they got infiltrated, and their secrets exposed on national TV (Superman?), and they quickly collapsed from the national ridicule. Since then, they have been a marginal set of losers, with probably, as you said, FBI agents predominating.
Take it up with Brookzene, ARM.
Brookzene said...
Are you just purposely being stupid?
I know you have two moods: slobber yourself on Trump's dick and troll althouse. But someone should tell you that "Denounce who I tell you to denounce or I will use it as evidence you that support them!" is not really a grown-up argument.
For a baby with messy diapers maybe it's the best you can do, Achilles, eh?
So you can't argue with anything I said. Got it. You are being normally stupid.
@Exile,
The truth of the matter is the Left badly needs to paint all conservatives and Trump voters as racist because they can't possibly permit blacks and Hispanics to stray off their Democrat plantation. They wouldn't win elections even in blue cities if that happened.
Totally true. In Oakland, there are wonderful black folks who simply want safe streets, good schools, and a few beers at Raiders games -- like everyone else.
But, their voices are drowned out by: (a) crazy leftwing Dem politics and (b) a small minority of violent thugs who deal drugs, gangbang and cause most of the violence and destruction in the city.
Also, Brookzene's position supports Trump.
Sorry, the President is the only person specifically hired to use the national bully pulpit.
I'm not.
Birkel said...
Where is the link, Achilles?
The Nation
"One thing happened in one case, another thing in another. The new work done on the mid-June and July 5 events bears upon all else in only one respect. We are now on notice: Given that we now stand face to face with very considerable cases of duplicity, it is imperative that all official accounts of these many events be subject to rigorously skeptical questioning. Do we even know that John Podesta’s e-mail address was in fact “phished”? What evidence of this has been produced? Such rock-bottom questions as these must now be posed in all other cases."
AReasonableMan said...
"Of course reasonable people are completely pissed off when an innocent woman is killed by self-avowed fascists. And are angry at our useless president who can't even be bothered to condemn the white supremacists who fermented this murder."
A) She may have been innocent, or she may have been part of the crowd attacking his car with bats.
B) It may well be true that this woman's death was the result of mob action, but if so, the mob were not "self-avowed fascists". They were self-avowed anti-fascists.
C) The demonstrators do not call themselves "white supremacists". That is your slur.
In short, you are engaged in a systematic misrepresentation of all the important details of this event. Presumably because you suspect the truth does not favor your side.
And I think you meant "fomented", but of course, that would be a lie as well.
Brookzene said...
Also, Brookzene's position supports Trump.
Sorry, the President is the only person specifically hired to use the national bully pulpit.
I'm not.
That is your excuse for hypocrisy?
Ah, so it's the same article from last week.
I won't support Katrina van den Heuvel even if she is right.
She can get clicks from other than me.
But thanks for the link. Appreciated.
So you can't argue with anything I said. Got it.
Whoa, you think you made an argument somewhere there, moron? Ha ha.
I love the logic.
"Either Brookzene denounces all the groups we tell him to denounce, or Trump doesn't have to speak out against neo-Nazis."
I don't care how many guns you guys have, you will lose because you are incredibly stupid.
Brookzene said...
So you can't argue with anything I said. Got it.
Whoa, you think you made an argument somewhere there, moron? Ha ha.
"Obama and the democrat party have invited in and supported all of these groups. The DNC was caught on video paying them to go to Trump rallies. Obama invited BLM to the white house several times. Each one of these groups is main stream in the democrat party."
You can't deal with the fact that La Raza(The Race), Black Lives Matter, and Antifa are all racist, violent, and main stream parts of the democrat party.
Well said, exiled at 12:45!
I see that Brookzene has moved on to the homophobic slurs portion of lefty arguments, ala Colbert and his equally bigotted cock holster slur.
Is this more or less bigotted than AReasonableMan and his transphobic comments? I think we need a mob of the woke people of Charlotte with baseball bats to adjudicate.
"Obama and the democrat party have invited in and supported all of these groups. The DNC was caught on video paying them to go to Trump rallies. Obama invited BLM to the white house several times. Each one of these groups is main stream in the democrat party."
You think I should have to argue with all your whataboutisms?
Also, not to bore people, but, it's good to emphasize:
1. It's bad to be a racist
2. It's bad to falsely accuse someone of racism -- emphasis on falsely .
"The largest white supremacy gathering in many years. Coincidence? No.
They believe they have a friend in the White House...".
Since when do people need to have a White House friend to gather, or gather in large numbers?
Sunsong, please don't take this question the wrong way. I don't mean it as an insult, or a joke, but as a serious question. Are you retarded?
"NaziBoy used ISIS tactics to murder his victim."
And if he would've shouted, "allahu akbar" you would've searched for a root cause, never actually found a motive and dismissed it as a lone wolf never to be discussed again.
Oh, and blamed Islamophobia for his actions.
Problem solved.
our vibrant democracy settles most domestic disputes with free elections
Don't take this the wrong way, but where the hell have you been the last nine months? Or are you really that clueless?
We are still waiting for that peaceful transition of power after last November's elections.
Brookzene said...
I love the logic.
"Either Brookzene denounces all the groups we tell him to denounce, or Trump doesn't have to speak out against neo-Nazis."
I don't care how many guns you guys have, you will lose because you are incredibly stupid.
It's revealing you apparently can't realize it's the same demand you're making.
Denounce who I want to associate you with I will assert you support them.
Whoa, I didn't mean me! That's McCarthism when you do it!
Pathetic.
"That is your excuse for hypocrisy?"
Achilles, I've noticed that's pretty much Brookzene's excuse for just about anything. S(he) dances away whenever asked for specifics. Leave him/her be. You'll only frustrate yourself against the rope-a-dope.
First they went after Juan Ponce de León,
and I did nothing.
Then they went after Christopher Columbus,
and I did nothing.
Then they went after Robert E. Lee,
and I ran the fuckers over with a Dodge.
"Dodge them Dodges!"
@ BayAreaGuy "Will any left of center folks here advise whether they believe that groups they oppose (see above deplorables) have a First Amendment right to peacefully march and assemble?"
I don't like to be pigeonholed (left of center) but everyone I know who is liberal / left-leaning believes "that groups they oppose (see above deplorables) have a First Amendment right to peacefully march and assemble". Everyone. Honestly.
Also - I believe it.
Best example - the ACLU which has I believe fought many law cases defending the right of Nazis to peacefully demonstrate.
No, Brookzene, I am welcoming you into the debate. You have positioned yourself opposite ARM and Inga who believe group associations and group denunciations are appropriate.
I wouldn't ask that you take a view on anything, really.
It would be nice if you took the position you take for yourself to be the position you allow for others. But that may be a bridge too far.
Best example - the ACLU which has I believe fought many law cases defending the right of Nazis to peacefully demonstrate.
One anyway, but it was 40 years ago. As the left's power has consolidated their need to pose as something other than far left activists has dwindled. Thus the ACLU has been nowhere regarding the campus speaking intimidation and kangaroo court debacle allowing a better civil rights focused organization [FIRE] to fill the gap.
KittyM
Perhaps you should wonder why the city of Charlottesville, VA tried to revoke the permit for the march in violation of First Amendment rights based on viewpoint discrimination.
That was Democrat politicians the ACLU sued because the Democrat politicians did not believe as you claim to believe. Can you square that?
Well, well - Inga and sunsong and ARM will have quite a shock one of these days, when they discover how much the BLM types hate THEM.
A BLM demounces "white allies" as the "most evil" - and the people in the comments section agree:
"Like many of their Caucasian counterparts, white allies are notorious for their endearing smiles, well-meaning gestures and feeble attempts at trying to give you some “dap,” but ultimately they will lead to your demise quicker than any Kardashian, Klansman or Kushner ever will. They are the most dangerous. They are the most evil.
There is no reason to fear neo-Nazis or racists screaming at Walmart checkout counters. You can see them coming. In fact, I applaud their passion and transparency. But white allies will stand close enough to smoothly slice open your gut so fast, you won’t even feel it until they’re stomping on your spilled entrails. And they are as slick as they are evil.
I’ve seen white allies in Birmingham, Ala., who work long hours with the underprivileged, but when the opportunity arose for their community to segregate their schools, they stiff-armed those black kids quicker than an NFL running back.
One time—and I doubt you’ll believe me—I saw a white woman watch black people help her husband become the most powerful man in the world. I saw that same woman watch her husband lock up black men in the biggest mass-incarceration effort in history. Then I watched that same white lady brag about it. She called the black people “superpredators!”
http://www.theroot.com/it-s-official-white-allies-are-the-worst-wypipo-in-the-1797481427
Nobody will be more surprised than white libs when the black activists they treat like personal pets turn on them.
I don't like to be pigeonholed (left of center) but everyone I know who is liberal / left-leaning believes "that groups they oppose (see above deplorables) have a First Amendment right to peacefully march and assemble". Everyone. Honestly.
Co-sign. Also people have a right to counter-march and demonstrate - and it's law enforcement's responsibility to ensure they stay peaceful.
And it's the courts responsibility to deal with anyone who intentionally goes to a demonstration to be violent or provoke violence.
Brookzene,
The counter-march would have had a right to assemble had they gotten the permit. They didn't.
Try again but this time consistent with facts?
Everyone. Honestly.
Except the mayor of Charlottesville. Who was sued. Sued for abridging the First Amendment rights that every citizen holds.
@rick I don't know how many cases or when. so I will defer to you.
But please accept my main point: the vast majority of liberals or left-leaning people accept without wavering the right of others to assemble and peacefully demonstrate.
A lot of this thread - and indeed this blog - is an insistence that "lefties" do something or other, or believe something or other that in no way matches my long experience. So - if you really are genuinely concerned that the left doesn't support freedom of assembly, I can reassure you that you are wrong.
But of course, at the same time, people who disagree with the views of the demonstrators have a right themselves to express that disagreement, through peaceful demonstration.
There is one more point that I'd like to raise and get a response to: do you not see that carrying torches and Nazi-type symbology and guns is a very provocative thing to do, particularly in a state with a history of violence towards African-Americans? Can you find some empathy for those (even if they are on the left and you disagree with them on other political issues) who find that frightening? As I say, there is an actual history of actual lynchings and actual rape and actual slavery. Can you see that?
Now it is a vast majority that somehow doesn't include the elected mayor of Charlottesville.
He is a Democrat.
Wait until KittyM learns about Evergreen State.
@Birkel America is a very big country with a long history. So I suppose for any issue we might discuss there will be examples that undermine a point I make.
But just super simply, once again, I can assure you it is a myth that liberals don't believe in freedom of speech, freedom of assembly. Liberals on the whole defend rule of law and human rights. Of course, you can keep saying that's not true but I assume from your comments that I know more actual liberals than you do.
exiled at 1:33: Yep. "Lamar gonna set you straight!" ;-)
KittyM said...
I don't like to be pigeonholed (left of center) but everyone I know who is liberal / left-leaning believes "that groups they oppose (see above deplorables) have a First Amendment right to peacefully march and assemble". Everyone. Honestly.
Also - I believe it.
But you also take the benefits of your co-believers' intimidation without criticism and support the institutions which deliver it. So it comes off a lot like a mob boss' wife keeping the property he stole and claiming she had no idea where the money came from - even through she lived a publicly mob-associated life.
Brookzene said...
"Obama and the democrat party have invited in and supported all of these groups. The DNC was caught on video paying them to go to Trump rallies. Obama invited BLM to the white house several times. Each one of these groups is main stream in the democrat party."
You think I should have to argue with all your whataboutisms?
Depends.
If you are discussing this in good faith yes.
If you want to be the definition of hypocrite and racist like Inga, ARM et. al. then no and pretend that racism and violence is not rampant in the democrat party.
But just super simply, once again, I can assure you it is a myth that liberals don't believe in freedom of speech, freedom of assembly. Liberals on the whole defend rule of law and human rights. Of course, you can keep saying that's not true but I assume from your comments that I know more actual liberals than you do.
Kitty, I agree with that. But we're not talking about Liberals here. We're talking about Progressives and Antifas. And I was a Liberal at one time, myself. I was also a radical leftist. I was wrong.
Blogger KittyM said...
But please accept my main point: the vast majority of liberals or left-leaning people accept without wavering the right of others to assemble and peacefully demonstrate.
Of course KittyM is contradicted by reality: "Portland Mayor Aims to Nix Free-Speech Rally, Fears 'Hatred'"
https://www.usnews.com/news/us/articles/2017-05-29/trump-condemns-fatal-stabbing-of-good-samaritans-in-portland
Good little liberals know that "public safety" is more important than free speech, and of course, since they control all of the major cities, college campuses,and media outlets, they get to decide when to play that card.
Can we agree they are Pro-fa.
They want to be the jackboots.
Sure, Kitty, people here can see those things and appreciate it all.
They can also tell you stories of hate, bigotry, prejudice, discrimination and animus being directed toward them and their own various demographic group.
And, by the way -- I do not know the race of anyone here with the exception of Ann Althouse. Yet you presume that there are no African-Americans here. Who is the one prejudging?
KittyM said...
But just super simply, once again, I can assure you it is a myth that liberals don't believe in freedom of speech, freedom of assembly. Liberals on the whole defend rule of law and human rights. Of course, you can keep saying that's not true but I assume from your comments that I know more actual liberals than you do.
So you denounce Obama, Clinton and the DNC for supporting and honoring La Raza, Antifa and BLM and for hiring paid thugs to disrupt Trump rallies with violence? I also assume you denounce the thousands of organizations on college campuses that protest every republican/conservative/libertarian speaker that tries to speak on college campuses?
Liberals on the whole defend rule of law and human rights.
There's no evidence of this in contemporary America. At best liberals stand by and watch progressives trample rights claiming they don't support the trampling even as they take advantage of it. But most often they're full participants.
"The difference is we condemn violence and racism fro the KKK and whomever this group of white nationalist socialists was. We don't like them and don't support them."
Atta boy. Next step, denounce them, kick them out of the party, tell them they can shove their votes up their asses. Don't want even a whiff of nazi shit stains in American politics. Steer this country back on track. Same goes for the democrats and their fucking communists. Shut that shit down.
On a daily basis, most of the people here are made to suffer all sorts of insults, offensive speech, hatred and the possibility of adverse consequences because of who they are or what they think, believe and profess. And many come from groups that have historically suffered all sorts of evil and persecution, including murder, maiming, theft, rape and being forced from their homes.
Yes, the people here know what it is like to be hated.
American conservatives are classical liberals -- a closed set -- tempered by Christian philosophy.
Liberalism is a divergent ideology. Progressivism is monotonic change. Progressive liberalism is typically a monotonic or generational divergence, which may be perceived as tolerant.
@Mark "And, by the way -- I do not know the race of anyone here with the exception of Ann Althouse. Yet you presume that there are no African-Americans here. Who is the one prejudging?"
Hi Mark. I don't get where you made that leap - that I am prejudging that there are no African-Americans here? Sorry, can you explain?
"They can also tell you stories of hate, bigotry, prejudice, discrimination and animus being directed toward them and their own various demographic group."
I don't know how to respond to this. There is a particular history in America and a particular history in the American South. I am simply asking whether any commenters can understand - just in a human to human way - that this march is deeply divisive and upsetting.
I just can not deal with the constant incessant "what about this other thing over here?". It doesn't move the conversation forward one iota.
A few years ago, the op-ed page of our local paper (very liberal), featured a pro-con pair of essays called 'Liberals and Conservatives in the Workplace.' The first essay was by a conservative woman saying that no one in her workplace knew she was conservative. She was afraid to voice any opinions because she might be ostracized or even lose her job. The second essay was from a liberal woman who really hated conservatives, didn't work with any conservatives, and thought that it would be reasonable to refuse work assignments that paired with any hypothetical conservative co-worker.
Quite amusing, really.
Triangle Man said...
Atta boy. Next step, denounce them, kick them out of the party, tell them they can shove their votes up their asses. Don't want even a whiff of nazi shit stains in American politics. Steer this country back on track. Same goes for the democrats and their fucking communists. Shut that shit down.
Sure. All 50 of them.
Meanwhile you need to kick out Antifa, CAIR, BLM, La Raza, every campus leftist organization, ANSWER, ACORN and any number of militant racist organizations.
I will gladly make that trade.
the ACLU which has I believe fought many law cases defending the right of Nazis to peacefully demonstrate.
That depends on which "Nazis." Those stupid and ignorant enough to parade around with hakenkreuz armbands and banners are harmless and can be safely defended for virtue signaling purposes.
Try going on a college campus or a newsroom or to Hollywood believing in values that been celebrated by humanity for tens of thousands of years. Then you will know what it is like to be surrounded by hate.
Blogger KittyM said...
I don't know how to respond to this. There is a particular history in America and a particular history in the American South.
There is also a particular history of American big city mayors and intellectuals supporting murderous totalitarians. So what? You really want to go with guilt by association, KittyM?
When it comes to an issue like freedom of speech, the liberals I personally know sometimes get a bit cagey over the issue of nebulously defined "hate speech". This uncertainty seems to occur when discussing how certain European countries (with systems of government they may admire) handle these issues. Because of this I remain unconvinced that the vast majority of liberals actually truly support mostly unlimited free speech (obviously excluding the whole "Fire!" in a crowded movies theater thing) without certain reservations. It's like they feel they have to pay lip service to appease certain sensibilities, but that in their hearts they are at least sympathetic to some restrictions.
I'll concede that this could all be my own imagination. But when you hear all these stories coming out of college campuses, and you see the various attempts from the left to shout down and shut down discussion, debate, and ceaselessly accusing anyone who may disagree with them of being Racist/Homophobic/Xenophobic/Sexist/Bigoted ect., it becomes more and more difficult to fully believe them.
Kitty, you asked if anyone here could understand the African-American experience. That implies that no one here is.
Hey KittyM, Glad to see you back.
Somewhat to your point, but more to the general topic this thread has taken:
The Nazis / Neos / Supremacists are a bit scary, but seem to have been relegated impotent by cultural disdain. Not so much with Antifa. They seem much more dangerous to a civil society at present. I know they don't represent the greater majority of the responsible 'left' (whatever that label means given the broad spectrum of opinions of all the issues our nation faces), but unfortunately they are the most visible and vocal and dangerous part your party. I don't believe that to be the case with KKK types. If they got out of line they would be hounded down in a heartbeat. Why is this not the case with Antifa types?
Can you find some empathy for those (even if they are on the left and you disagree with them on other political issues) who find that frightening? As I say, there is an actual history of actual lynchings and actual rape and actual slavery. Can you see that?
If people actually found it frightening they wouldn't be counter-demonstrating. (Q) Why didn't the left have these arguments when those monuments were built? (A) Because they believed healing was better than holding grudges. But now the left controls the institutions to ensure a victory and they need to other someone for their political framework to hold.
I find it revealing the left is pushing into ever-more meaningless issues trying to maintain their race-baiting. We're down to Civil War monuments and bakeries. What will they come up with next?
@Lewis Wetzel Do you really equate "a history of slavery" which involved violence, rape, imprisonment and actually owning hzma beings with "a particular history of American big city mayors and intellectuals supporting murderous totalitarians" which is presumably various public comments by people in the news? Surely not! Those really are not on the same level and shouldn't be in the same conversation at all.
@mark "Try going on a college campus or a newsroom or to Hollywood believing in values that been celebrated by humanity for tens of thousands of years. Then you will know what it is like to be surrounded by hate." ??? Do you really think being in Hollywood and being conservative is the same in terms of "surrounded by hate" as what was being expressed in Charlottesville?
I think the opposite. I think that if you guys understand what it is to be "surrounded by hate" which I totally accept then you surely surely will be able to understand how it feels to be threatened by the increasing sound and sight of an emboldened far-right? In other words, I expect *more* empathy from you. Because, as you say, you know what that feels like - to be with people who seem hostile, to feel alone, to feel threatened etc.
"On a daily basis, most of the people here are made to suffer all sorts of insults, offensive speech, hatred and the possibility of adverse consequences because of who they are or what they think, believe and profess. And many come from groups that have historically suffered all sorts of evil and persecution, including murder, maiming, theft, rape and being forced from their homes.
Yes, the people here know what it is like to be hated."
Yes, true! Especially when pertaining to Lefty commenters.
KittyM said...
8/14/17, 1:36 PM
You seem to have conflated three different things here, like a tangled knot. Allow me to untangle...
There is one more point that I'd like to raise and get a response to: do you not see that carrying torches and Nazi-type symbology full stop. The "white supremacists peaceably demonstrated did this and had every right to as they were not being violent, had the legal permits and again were NOT being violent, stupid, yes, hateful, yes, legal? YES and guns is a very provocative thing to do, As far as I know, this was a distinct, third group that stated that they were taking a neutral position, did not support the ideas of the protesters but supported their right to protest AND claimed that the only reason they got involved (and brought guns) was due to the lack of involvement of the Police, to protect the legal protesters AND no shots were fired particularly in a state with a history of violence towards African-Americans? sorry but which of the antifa protesters were involved in the civil rights efforts of the 50s/60s? They all looked like "lilly white" rich kids to me. What does any of that history have to do with them. They only exposure they have to that is taking notes on how to properly do brutality. Can you find some empathy for those (even if they are on the left and you disagree with them on other political issues) who find that frightening? As I say, there is an actual history of actual lynchings and actual rape and actual slavery. Can you see that? Frightening? Really? So frightening that they just had to show up with sticks and bats and face masks. They had NO option to stay way. They were dragged there and FORCED to participate.
"Yes, the people here know what it is like to be hated."
Yes, true! Especially when pertaining to Lefty commenters."
Inga trades in her pussy hat for a crown of thorns.
Poor dear.
Try being less hateful.
@rick "If people actually found it frightening they wouldn't be counter-demonstrating." Completely disagree! First of all, the number of people who find that freighting far, far exceed the number counter-demonstrating.
Secondly, people can be frightened but demonstrate anyway. I know.
Late to this, but I wonder if creating the distinction of "terrorist" does more harm than good by granting a patina of legitimacy in the eyes of those who agree with the defendant (or think they do.)
"Meanwhile you need to kick out Antifa, CAIR, BLM, La Raza, every campus leftist organization, ANSWER, ACORN and any number of militant racist organizations."
Commies and violent radicals out.
Can we agree on getting the anti-vax, anti-GMO, young earth, creationist yahoos off of both parties platforms too?
@singsong: Are you finished retweeting?
If so, do you have any original thoughts to add?
No. In current usage "terrorism" is an unfortunate term for jihad picked by our national leaders because they do not trust us to distinguish between jihadists and ordinary Moslems.
@todd Thanks for the thoughtful response. "Frightening? Really? So frightening that they just had to show up with sticks and bats and face masks. They had NO option to stay way. They were dragged there and FORCED to participate." Again, I mean not just the demonstrators, I mean others - onlookers, people who read about this.
"Try being less hateful."
You first.
"Can we agree on getting the anti-vax, anti-GMO, young earth, creationist yahoos off of both parties platforms too?"
I don't like or agree with any of those people either, but nobody is vandalizing property or swinging baseball bats at others to make them believe that the world was created 4,000 years ago.
And is any of that stuff actually in either party's platform?
Unknown said...
"Try being less hateful."
You first.
8/14/17, 2:24 PM
I'm not the one whining and sobbing because others are soooooo mean to me. If you don't like the way you're addressed here, leave. Don't keep coming back under The Stupid Alias of the Day or Week, sling shit and then blubber because people hate you. We all do, but you've earned it.
In order to satisfy the fascist left, all sorts of cities are removing historical statues from the Civil War era.
We cannot bother any longer to learn from history. No no. History is scary to leftists. Must smash history with a hammer.
Bay Area Guy said...
"Also, not to bore people, but, it's good to emphasize:
1. It's bad to be a racist
2. It's bad to falsely accuse someone of racism -- emphasis on falsely ."
You know, BAG, I get really tired of this kind of virtue-signaling from people who ought to know better. Are you really trying to claim that you don't use racial cues to govern your behavior? What part of Oakland do you live in, Mr. See-No-Race?
The young earth red herring.
On NOEZ! Young earthers are taking over! with baseball bats! oh wait - that would be angry leftists.
Bruce Hayden said...
Love how the Republicans are being lambasted to disavow the handful of extremists who showed up, got a permit, then got shut down when the usual left wing fascist thugs showed up to prevent them from marching through threats of, and actual violence, and no one seems to be requiring this of the Democrats, that hey disavow the violent thugs in their midst.
But, but ... they're thugs FOR GOOD!
Just a reminder: there is no "but racism" clause in the Constitution.
Why didn't Trump denounce the People's Front for the Liberation of Nazis?
Yeah, and the People's Nazi Liberation Front, too!
Hey, Kitty, I was once married to an 'African-American', although he would have punched someone out if they had called him that. My younger daughter is racially mixed and identifies as mostly black but is a political conservative and a Trump voter. She and her white husband ride a Harley and go target shooting. Doesn't fit into your progressive worldview? Too bad.
KittyM said...
But just super simply, once again, I can assure you it is a myth that liberals don't believe in freedom of speech, freedom of assembly.
The so called liberals on this blog - excluding solely Althouse - dealt with the various campus intimidation events by either (1) ignoring the issue or (2) attacking those who criticized the campus radicals. They don't want to lose credibility so they don't outright support the radical position but they support the team by criticizing those criticizing the team.
But while Althouse holds these traditional liberal values you ascribe to liberals generally most on the left correctly note her beliefs set her apart from them.
KittyM said...
@todd Thanks for the thoughtful response. "Frightening? Really? So frightening that they just had to show up with sticks and bats and face masks. They had NO option to stay way. They were dragged there and FORCED to participate." Again, I mean not just the demonstrators, I mean others - onlookers, people who read about this.
8/14/17, 2:23 PM
In this instance "those" people were not the problem. The antifa that showed up "to bust some heads" was the problem. I (any my friends) used to pray that when the KKK / white supremacist showed up to march, no one would gather. No on-lookers, no counter protesters, no news crews, nothing. Let them hold their marches of hate in quite solitude. Starve them of the attention they seek.
Today, if there is no protest for antifa to "crash", they would make one up. They will find a reason to riot. It is shameful that they feel empowered enough to crash "events" and silence others "by any means necessary". The left now are (and maybe always was) the fascists they so often claimed and continue to claim the right is always "becoming". They riot, they attack, they burn.
The (so maligned) tea party didn't riot or burn. Conservatives don't riot or burn. "liberal" groups riot and burn.
You may "know" oh so many that don't but many, many do and those "liberals" that stand by while antifa does their dirty work give it tact approval by their inactions. The left owns this and will own how this all ends.
Sunsong and others are appearantly quite exuberant about this tragedy. It's really a strange reaction. It can't be becuase they like such a tragedy, so why would it be? Is it really just becuase they think some solitary guy's horrible actions can be attributed to Trump and the people who voted for him. Now if the truth would turn out to be that it had nothing to do with Trump or his supporters, which almost certainly is the case, then how will they feel about the horrible thing then? I doubt they would be so excited, probably go immediately to disappointed. Their feelings about this tragedy are determined by who they can blame, even if it's completely wrong, becuase they think they can wrongfully blame Americans they disagree with. Seems like the kind of thing that's at the very core of all this hatred and violence. How else can you explain the near ecstatic energy shown here. I'm not saying they are the only ones who do it, just that it's exactly what causes the violence. It's exuberance driven by hate, and that's what leads to tragedy. Without the hate, you just have diverse ideas and opinions, which a free people can live with in relative peace.
Just curious, Mr. Bimbos, were you opposed to Ukranians pulling down Lenin statues?
why were tear gas, rubber bullets, and water cannons used on native americans in standing rock but not nazis in charlottesville
exiledonmainstreet,
Just as I thought...the right-wingers take no responsibility for anything
It will catch up with you :-)
"Can we agree on getting the anti-vax, anti-GMO, young earth, creationist yahoos off of both parties platforms too?"
We can just generalize Whole Foods shoppers in general right?
I've been looking for the (verbatim) initial statement and all I can find is: The president said he condemned “hatred, bigotry and violence on many sides.”
I find it hard to object. I find condemnation of groups that hold hatred, bigotry, and violence. I'm not sure why it was objectionable. His later comments said almost exactly the same thing except he also called out some of the groups. I don't think that was necessary.
"How many real leaders need a TelePrompTer to denounce Nazis and white supremacists?"
~ Matthew Dowd
vicari valdez said...
"why were tear gas, rubber bullets, and water cannons used on native americans in standing rock but not nazis in charlottesville"
Because they would have had to shoot 10 times as many democrat nazis as kkk nazis.
I can assure you it is a myth that liberals don't believe in freedom of speech, freedom of assembly.
Sunsong specifically excluded, many liberals on this blog supported the freedom of the Republican legislators to assemble at the softball field for practice, citing previous statements they had made and legislation they advocated.
Some even supported a much tighter grouping at future assemblies.
"How many real leaders need a TelePrompTer to denounce Nazis and white supremacists?"
Barack Obama, for one.
vicari valdez said...why were tear gas, rubber bullets, and water cannons used on native americans in standing rock but not nazis in charlottesville
The "Nazi's" weren't rioting, it was antifa that was rioting, and the police are in bed with them. They all work for Wall Street who pits one peasant tribes against the other, while they confiscate property and wealth.
The "nazi's" you speak of, were actually just white people tired of the Manhattan Jews running all over the south and digging up their Confederate monuments.
They ain't doing so good. White people are on the way out in America.
sunsong said...
"How many real leaders need a TelePrompTer to denounce Nazis and white supremacists?"
~ Matthew Dowd
As you can see it will never be enough. Sunsong has decided everyone that disagrees with her is racist and subhuman. Additionally she supports antifa violence.
We will not let you shitheads tear this country apart. Your Russian collusion coup failed. Now everyone you don't like is racist and you are bent on starting a race war.
You will be defeated.
sunsong said...
exiledonmainstreet,
Just as I thought...the right-wingers take no responsibility for anything
It will catch up with you :-)
I do not support Nazis. I am not on their side. So I take no responsibility for it and I completely reject and condemn your dishonest smear.
sunsong said...
Just as I thought...the right-wingers take no responsibility for anything
Still waiting for you to take responsibility for the murder of 5 Dallas policemen by a BLM supporter.
Well, not really. We understand you. Except for Kevin, but he'll learn.
vicarious
It is my understanding that they were on
private property interfering with the legitimate business of the leaseholders.
And oh yeah. They were throwing stuff too
bagoh20 said...
Sunsong and others are appearantly quite exuberant about this tragedy. It's really a strange reaction. It can't be becuase they like such a tragedy, so why would it be?"
Oh, they've been longing for this to happen! The evil white man of their dreams! A martyr!
Think of the exhilaration and happiness they must feel!
More Matthew Dowd? Seriously, his opinions are about as distinguished as a random drunk yelling at the television, except the drunk is more entertaining and potentially better informed.
I presume you do not want to be taken seriously. Duly noted.
A tweet from a NY Times reporter who was on the scene:
Sheryl Gay Stolberg
✔ @SherylNYT
2. The hard left seemed as hate-filled as alt-right. I saw club-wielding "antifa" beating white nationalists being led out of the park 2/2
10:34 PM - Aug 12, 2017
Well, now, that wasn't very politically correct now, was it? Stolberg later tweeted:
Rethinking this. Should have said violent, not hate-filled. They were standing up to hate.
6:20 AM - Aug 13, 2017
Oh, I'm sure she wasn't pressured at all to "rethink" her initial tweet.
"Standing up to hate" Yeah, with baseball bats and flamethrowers - just like MLK Jr!
exiledonmainstreet,
I do not support Nazis. I am not on their side. So I take no responsibility for it and I completely reject and condemn your dishonest smear.
Ah, but that's not how it works here. Right on this thread you (and others) are telling me what I think and believe(when you don't have a clue)...you smear ALL lefties all the time without bothering with facts or even trying to find out ...but, as I say, when the tables are turned...look how you squeal- lol
It will catch up with you...
What goes around ...comes around
We understand you. Except for Kevin, but he'll learn.
Oh she's very frustrating. Pretending that you can't be for someone's right to speak but not condone anything they might say is either stupid or disingenuous.
But I believe in fairness in all things. She did take a stand against the softball shooter's actions, even if she - ironically - didn't want to discuss the ideology behind them.
Maybe that's the only commendable thing she did. Maybe it's the only commendable thing she'll ever do. But I don't want that to get lost in the discussion because I'm trying to be fair to everyone here.
"Trump hit 61% disapproval today in Gallup. No President in history has hit this low in first elected term. Ever."
~ Matthew Dowd
You know, when you have two groups of vile people protesting and counter-protesting, there are sensible things you can do to keep it from getting out of hand. You don't deny either groups right to protest, because they have the first Amendment right to say whatever they want.
You make sure they are separated and stay separate. You take baseball bats and flamethrowers and other obvious weapons away from them. It used to be that signs held aloft on sticks were not permitted at demonstrations because they can easily be used as weapons.
Why were none of these things done in C-ville? The mayor has some explaining to do.
exiledonmainstreet,
Oh, they've been longing for this to happen! The evil white man of their dreams! A martyr!
Think of the exhilaration and happiness they must feel!
And how do you know that that is how I feel?
You must realize that if I were writing here about you and saying what you "supposedly" think and feel and believe...you would have a fit. So why do you do it to me and others?
Kevin,
I appreciate that you are trying to be fair...
Joe - you're conflating communist history with American history. Silly.
"Trump hit 61% disapproval today in Gallup. No President in history has hit this low in first elected term. Ever."
~ Matthew Dowd
Really? I doubt Lincoln was that high. Still one of our best Presidents.
"And how do you know that that is how I feel?"
The same way you know how I feel, sunsong.
sunsong said...
"Trump hit 61% disapproval today in Gallup. No President in history has hit this low in first elected term. Ever."
~ Matthew Dowd
And your foolish poll will not make Hillary Clinton, the woman whose campaign hired violent thugs to disrupt Trump rallies, President.
I appreciate that you are trying to be fair...
Thanks. I will continue to keep trying.
And I would learn more about you if your posts weren't reposts of other people's thinking. I can tell you're upset today, so perhaps another time or another topic.
sunsong said... Right on this thread you (and others) are telling me what I think and believe(when you don't have a clue)..
We're only applying your stated principles. If they don't match your actual beliefs I'd say the problem is yours.
I knew it was a mistake to play the "UnknownInga calls people a piece of shit" drinking game this afternoon. Now I need to reload my strategic tequila reserves.
sunsong said...
You must realize that if I were writing here about you and saying what you "supposedly" think and feel and believe.
Why do you write about this as if it were hypothetical? You're attributed hate to people in hundreds of comments. As usual the worst offenders are outraged when people return their own tactics to them.
The same way you know how I feel, sunsong.
example please
You're attributed hate to people in hundreds of comments.
example please
sunsong said...
exiledonmainstreet,
Oh, they've been longing for this to happen! The evil white man of their dreams! A martyr!
Think of the exhilaration and happiness they must feel!
And how do you know that that is how I feel?
You must realize that if I were writing here about you and saying what you "supposedly" think and feel and believe...you would have a fit. So why do you do it to me and others?
Because no matter what we say about the 50 racist losers that went to this rally, you trash us as racists. No matter what Trump says you label him racist. It is despicable.
Because no matter how many democrat supported fascists and racists from BLM and Antifa or La Raza show up in places and riot or how many cops they shoot you never say a damn word about them. But as soon as something like this happens you have 30 retweets from dishonest media hacks.
Because it is obvious by the tenor of your posts here you hate people who disagree with you and seek only to dehumanize them.
sunsong said...
sunsong said...
"You're attributed hate to people in hundreds of comments."
example please
deal:
"How many real leaders need a TelePrompTer to denounce Nazis and white supremacists?"
~ Matthew Dowd
"Trump hit 61% disapproval today in Gallup. No President in history has hit this low in first elected term. Ever."
~ Matthew Dowd
Just as I thought...the right-wingers take no responsibility for anything
Your side just killed an innocent women in a terrorist act and injured about 19 others...
Just on this page. The previous 200 comments have some gems too.
And you still haven't denounced Antifa or BLM.
Kevin,
Perhaps :-)
I don't really care to get into much here - other than quotes - because it is so right-wing dominated and commenters tend to ascribe positions to us liberals without checking to see if they are even close to correct.
That's why I am saying things like..."your side killed an innocent woman"
and look at the reaction - lol
but, when some leftie does something...just watch... we will all be painted with that brush here
the hypocrisy is too evident
sunsong, you have asked me repeatedly to "take responsibility" for something a lone man did in C-ville the other night. I don't take responsibility because I didn't do it. I am not a Nazi, don't approve of Nazis, don't approve of violence, and I don't think I have any more in common with them than you do.
"Trump attacked a black CEO for taking a stand against racism after repeatedly declining to take a stand against racism himself."
Missing the point. Trump came out of the gate condemning "hatred, bigotry, and violence." Somehow I always thought bigotry was an umbrella term that includes racism. A black COE then resigns, which is disingenuous, disrespectful to and insulting to Trump. [One could rationally assume that bigotry which is not racism is OK in his book.] Trump responded personally, which is Trump's modus.
Achilles,
"How many real leaders need a TelePrompTer to denounce Nazis and white supremacists?"
~ Matthew Dowd
"Trump hit 61% disapproval today in Gallup. No President in history has hit this low in first elected term. Ever."
~ Matthew Dowd
Just as I thought...the right-wingers take no responsibility for anything
Where is the attributed hate?
The tables have not turned, becuase conservatives are not Nazi sympathizers or defenders. It's just not their side to defend. NAZI ideology is the opposite of conservative You are imagining the people here inaccurately so that you can hate them. Is that really so important to you?
Nobody here wants to defend the NAZIs or the white supremacists, but BLM, Antifa, or La Raza, all of whom are tolerated, defended and even supported by most of the left, despite their violence and hate.
sunsong, you have asked me repeatedly to "take responsibility" for something a lone man did in C-ville the other night. I don't take responsibility because I didn't do it. I am not a Nazi, don't approve of Nazis, don't approve of violence, and I don't think I have any more in common with them than you do.
So you don't want to be painted with the broad brush of all right-wingers are____"
So I ask again, then why do you do the same to me and others on the left?
"President Donald Trump tried to breeze past the fact that he failed to hold a news conference — as promised — on Monday, instead lashing out at a CNN reporter as "fake news."
LOL, he was pissy that he had to denounce the KKK and the Nazis. He'll be in a bad mood all week.
Sunsong wrote:
" when some leftie does something...just watch... we will all be painted with that brush here"
Actually a lot of people here, including me, gave you credit for condemning the baseball shooter.
But other leftists here and on the Internet did not. In fact, they lamented the fact that he was such a poor shot.
Except for one poster, I don't see anybody here cheering because someone was killed. We want to know the facts though. Was it deliberate or did the guy panic because he was being attacked? Why didn't the police intervene?
The baseball field shooting was pretty cut and dried. This is not - yet. That doesn't mean I'm happy someone was killed. It doesn't mean the driver isn't guilty. He might well be. But let's learn the facts.
Sunsong,
Your side killed 5 policemen in Dallas.
"LOL, he was pissy that he had to denounce the KKK and the Nazis"
Yeah, the guy with a Jewish daughter, SIL and grandchildren.
You are so fucking stupid and vile.
Not the national socialists nor the Democratic fascists, not the color supremacists nor the [class] diversitists, not the rabidly native nor the lying pro-immigrant. Send them all to be processed at Planned Parenthood, a human rights-approved "final solution".
sunsong
the hypocrisy is too evident
Certainly by sunsong who ascribes murder to a "side" then whines that others paint with a broad brush.
Meanwhile sunsong has still not accepted responsibility for the 5 murders of Dallas policemen by a BLM supporter as defined by her stated principles.
Then she whines about hypocrisy. Too funny.
you guys bitch and whine a lot. doesn't it get boring? some of you are on these blogs all day bitching and moaning, aren't you? i couldn't imagine. but you are a bunch of retrogrades. bored ones, obviously.
go for a walk! gym membership anyone?
sunsong said...
Where is the attributed hate?
You can be dishonest and argue in bad faith all you want. No matter what we say or do you call us racists and blame us for violence between two groups neither of whom we support. It is interesting though that you actually do support one of the groups that was responsible for the violence that led to this death.
We will not let you and your friends tear the fabric of our civil society apart.
".... you have asked me repeatedly to "take responsibility" for something a lone man did in C-ville the other night. I don't take responsibility because I didn't do it. I am not a Nazi, don't approve of Nazis, don't approve of violence, and I don't think I have any more in common with them than you do."
What hypocrisy. When Scalise was shot we heard for an entire week how we "Leftists and Stalinists" were responsible for his death. You think we wouldn't remember?
exiledonmainstreet,
This is where logic, which you have admitted you have a very weak grasp of, comes in handy.
Your knowledge of Gandhi and history isn't very good either. That's why you pull out these noble sounding quotes without any real knowledge of the historical figures who uttered them. They're just nice Hallmark card sentiments to you.
This is an example of what I'm talking about. How do you know. I have NEVER said I have a weak grasp of logic. Never. But you just decide to say that I have.
How do you know what my knowledge of Gandhi is??? I quoted him.
I would hope that you and others can stop deciding that you know where others are coming from and start asking...
sunsong said...
So I ask again, then why do you do the same to me and others on the left?
Because you are not denouncing all of the bad actors in this episode. These include the 50 KKK people, the hundreds of Antifa democrats, and the democrat governor that told the police to stand down. Then you follow it up by saying all people who disagree with you are responsible for one of those 50 disgusting losers.
This is explicit bad faith.
What hypocrisy. When Scalise was shot we heard for an entire week how we "Leftists and Stalinists" were responsible for his death. You think we wouldn't remember?
Exactly! And when the tables are turned...boy they freak out - lol
"LOL, he was pissy that he had to denounce the KKK and the Nazis. He'll be in a bad mood all week."
Boozy fat old commie twat, hurry up and become worm food. Liver failure, obesity related diabetes amputation gone bad, or maybe just perhaps drinking a nice tall refreshing glass of bleach, it matters not.
sunsong said...
You're attributed hate to people in hundreds of comments.
example please
Love Trumps Hate
Rick has no examples.
Noted...just another right-winger painting those who don't agree with the same broad brush
There are posters here that people in the middle or the left should learn to routinely ignore. There are some genuine, principled right wingers here who can construct a coherent argument but, sadly, many are just trolls. It is obvious after a while who they are. They have no interest in rational argument, just denunciations. What is most troubling for the future of this site is that the percentage of these trolls has increased steadily with Althouse's drift to the right, crowding out the sensible right wingers.
Unknown said...
What hypocrisy. When Scalise was shot we heard for an entire week how we "Leftists and Stalinists" were responsible for his death. You think we wouldn't remember?
Because many thousands of democrats took to twitter and other comment mediums including this board to say Scalise deserved to get shot because he believes in the second amendment.
I would hope that you and others can stop deciding that you know where others are coming from and start asking...
Why would anyone do that? You've admitted you're not posting in good faith. It's not like you've ever addressed anyone else's comments honestly. In fact this is what sets the Althouse blog apart: it's the only place even one single liberal addresses non-left arguments in good faith. But the existence of that one single place moves people like you, Inga, and ARM to ruin it.
There are posters here that people in the middle or the left should learn to routinely ignore. There are some genuine, principled right wingers here who can construct a coherent argument but, sadly, many are just trolls. It is obvious after a while who they are. They have no interest in rational argument, just denunciations. What is most troubling for the future of this site is that the percentage of these trolls has increased steadily with Althouse's drift to the right, crowding out the sensible right wingers.
This.
"What is most troubling for the future of this site is that the percentage of these trolls has increased steadily with Althouse's drift to the right, crowding out the sensible right wingers."
Very noticeably. Or maybe they were always here and only just dropped the mask after Trump won the election..
Achilles,
Because many thousands of democrats took to twitter and other comment mediums including this board to say Scalise deserved to get shot because he believes in the second amendment.
Please show us some of those many comments. I call bull shit on this...
At 3:44PM today my hypocrisy meter exploded. Fortunately no one was hurt.
sunsong said...
Noted...just another right-winger painting those who don't agree with the same broad brush
I can go out and find thousands of comments on twitter and other comment threads calling for the death of these white nationalists and republicans in general. Antifa is main stream democrat party. I can find thousands of comments saying Scalise shouldn't complain about being shot.
Face it. If you believe in freedom and non-violence you are a small minority in the democrat party.
And your glee and happiness on this thread just shows you have been waiting for the great white hope of democrats to smear republicans with.
You've admitted you're not posting in good faith.
Not true. I said I like to quote. That is NOT bad faith.
Again, where are your examples of me attributing hate to hundreds of comments?
sunsong said...
Rick has no examples.
You wrote that hundreds of times.
Meanwhile we're still waiting for you to explain why the right generally is guilty of this murder but the left is not guilty for the 5 murders by a BLM supporter.
I mean we know. But it's amusing at this point you'll neither accept that responsibility nor retract the assertion all while whining about hypocrisy. It's quite meta.
And your glee and happiness on this thread
Good God , how dense can you be?
Based on what do you know how I feel?
"Because many thousands of democrats took to twitter and other comment mediums including this board to say Scalise deserved to get shot because he believes in the second amendment."
"Please show us some of those many comments. I call bull shit on this..."
Achilles lives in his own reality. Every Lefty is a "Stalinist" and is commenting in "bad faith". He of course is the arbiter of all that is good and right and holy, when he's not talking about Washington DC burning down at the hands of the "patriots".
sunsong said... [hush][hide comment]
What a bunch of conjecture. Weaselly words so and so may be or feel this way. No one knows. Good grief. Talk about the fact free right wingers...
1/18/17, 9:06 AM
I wonder why sunsong pretends to be offended by others painting with a broad brush. Surel;y she would never do such a thing. I mean it couldn't be that others treat her like she treats them could it?
talking about Washington DC burning down at the hands of the "patriots"
Note -- It was this same leftist crowd that in D.C. was shouting hate and breaking things and throwing things and burning cars at Inauguration time.
Same crowd that used to break out in near riots near the International Monetary Fund building in D.C. when they had big meetings.
Post a Comment