August 3, 2017

"I won New Hampshire because New Hampshire is a drug-infested den."

Said Donald Trump, according to a transcript — which leaked to the public today — of a conversation with the president of Mexico that took place last January.
“The drug lords in Mexico are knocking the hell out of our country... They are sending drugs to Chicago, Los Angeles and to New York... Up in New Hampshire — I won New Hampshire because New Hampshire is a drug-infested den — is coming from the southern border.”
Here's the level of Democratic Party media savvy, trying to foment outrage:


Yes, it's pretty. They've got that fall foliage, so how could they — why would they? — use drugs?

More on the leaking of the transcripts (with Trump and the leaders of Mexico and Australia) here (NYT).

That picture demands a song:
Hey people, all aboard the drug train!
The tracks are new and there is a new town!
On the drug train, have a nice day
On the drug train, come up and get onboard
I used to know all the sights til I got onboard the drug train
I'm gonna chug it out to get onboard...
There's lots to do on a drug train
Drinks and drivin' and slipping and sliding
With all of your friends on the drug train
Whoa the drug train woo hoo
The drug train woo hoo...

99 comments:

I Have Misplaced My Pants said...

Woods = meth

Source: am Washingtonian

Meth doesn't come from Mexico, though.

rehajm said...

It's a drug infested den with pretty foliage. Not mutually exclusive NH tourist authority.

In neighboring Vermont there are two classes of people- heroin addicts and meth addicts. I forget which is the uner class..

Michael K said...

I understand he is absolutely correct but the most important thing is who leaked that transcript ?

We are, I fear, seeing a slow motion coup d'etat in this country.

I don;t know if they have the guts for a violent one but we might see.

The effort to paralyze the administration was advanced significantly today with the release by The Washington Post of leaked full transcripts of Trump’s conversations with the leaders of Mexico and Australia soon after he took office. There had been leaks about those conversations previously, but never the full transcripts.

The leak is being celebrated and the transcripts quoted (often out of context) for the purpose of scoring political points against Trump. But more than that, this represents yet another dangerous example of how leaks have been weaponized to try to paralyze the Trump administration.

David Frum, a harsh critic of Trump, writes at The Atlantic, Why Leaking Transcripts of Trump’s Calls Is So Dangerous

Leaking the transcript of a presidential call to a foreign leader is unprecedented, shocking, and dangerous. It is vitally important that a president be able to speak confidentially—and perhaps even more important that foreign leaders understand that they can reply in confidence.


Even David Frum sees the danger !

There are rumors that McMaster, who I have been a fan of for years, is getting rid of Trump allies.

Today, Trump is in West Virginia and getting a rave response as the governor switches parties.

Mueller seems to be trying to do a Fitzgerald.

It could get ugly.

rcocean said...

I thought there was a Meth crisis in New Hampshire. Or was I mistaken?

mockturtle said...

I think Vermont is the heroin capital of the US.

YoungHegelian said...

Wait!

Wasn't it the deal in the election was that Trump would go to all these states for rallies & when he asked people about what the local problems were, place after place told him the epidemic of drug use? So, isn't it the residents themselves who are using the terms like "drug-infested den"?

@MK,

Yes, this latest leak is appalling. This is going to backfire on the folks who are doing this. While many folks may not like Trump, they like even less a bunch of bureaucrats attempting to short-circuit the electoral will of the American people. As much as it pains the anti-Trumpers, they simply must pull back & give him enough rope to hang himself. But, of course, their greatest fear is that he won't fail if they leave him alone.

khematite said...

Does Trump really believe that he won New Hampshire? Or does he just figure that the president of Mexico won't know the difference?

The Toothless Revolutionary said...

Technically he's got a point. You have to be on drugs to vote for Donald Trump.

Too bad he didn't remember the difference between a primary and general election.

Kevin said...

Next we'll be shown a picture of Chicago's North Side and be told there is no ridiculous murder rate in the city.

The Toothless Revolutionary said...

It's better to have dens that are drug-infested than bedrooms or offices. Or bathrooms. Etc.

Chuck said...

The transcript of the conversation with President Pena Nieto was my favorite. And the business of the wall, which Pena Nieto did say that Mexico would not pay for.

"You cannot say anymore that the United States is going to pay for the wall," he said. "I am just going to say that we are working it out. Believe it or not, this is the least important thing that we are talking about, but politically this might be the most important talk about."

Did the Times include that quote? I didn't see it, but perhaps I overlooked it. CNN had it in their story:

http://www.cnn.com/2017/08/03/politics/trump-pena-nieto-call-transcript/index.html

It is sort of gratifying, to hear Trump admit privately that the wall is all about political messaging, and not about important substance. That's been my own view from the start. But to read the transcript of Trump bemoaning his problem of being somehow trapped and confined by his commitment to building a border wall is just so odd. Nobody but Trump made a big deal about that on the campaign trail.

The Toothless Revolutionary said...

It's funny to hear Republicrazies go on about Chicago. Red states are basically methamphetamine and Oxy-Contin arcades.

YoungHegelian said...

@Chuck,

That's been my own view from the start. But to read the transcript of Trump bemoaning his problem of being somehow trapped and confined by his commitment to building a border wall is just so odd. Nobody but Trump made a big deal about that on the campaign trail.

It worked, & all for the price of Trump running his mouth off about it on the campaign trail! Illegal border crossings are down yuuuuuuuuuuugely since Trump's inauguration.

Yet, again, the Philistines have been slain by the jawbone of an ass!

mccullough said...

Nice funicular

rehajm said...

In NH it's the cog railway...

Feste said...

~
I don’t know differences between travelers and tourists.

Foraging [for votes] - mushrooms, chaga, orpine, basswood, forget the milkweed ...

Then [politically], “How to Shit in the Woods.”

Do the people of New Hampshire really care who runs it all? - so long as effluent flows downhill? - and garbage collection runs on time?

“Looking for a Lover that won’t blow my Cover.”

The Vault Dweller said...

They need to find these leakers and throw them in prison for a couple decades. Governments need to be able to have secrets. I'm beginning to think that if some of these leakers had existed in the 1940's and had an axe to grind against FDR they woudld have leaked the plans for the Normandy invasion of D-day.

HT said...

"It is sort of gratifying, to hear Trump admit privately that the wall is all about political messaging,"

I think the whole Mexican conversation is a huge nothingburger. I did not hear that he's insincere about wanting a wall and even wanting Mexico to pay for it. If so, he'd have reassured pena nieto, but he didn't do that.

eric said...

They don't recognize we have a drug crises in this nation. Dolts.

Todd Roberson said...

My general experience with rural New England:

You drive through about 5 boarded up, ramshackle shithole villages with inbred, toothless and utterly destitute white people. Then the sixth town is an espresso, arugula and croissant paradise with an arts council and a community playhouse. Then ... On the same road ... The cycle repeats ...

Sebastian said...

@YH: "they simply must pull back" Why? It's working, the MSM eat it up, progs love it, no career has suffered, if they wait a bit longer regime change will cover their asses--what's not to like? The swamp thinks it's more powerful than the clown. They haven't been proved wrong yet.

Gahrie said...

Somebody needs to start making examples of these people.

David said...

Simple solution.

Stop recording the calls and stop making transcripts.

D said...

Train Song: (not Tom Waits)

Sending out tweets, a dead horse long beat, Donnie Trump, you better watch for more leaks
Mueller ahead, Comey behind, DC wants you out or locked in a bind

The old country may be on the wrong track, Nashua's on heroin when they aint smokin crack
Jobs automated or regulated away, Asking an ethicist whether the baby should stay

Drving that train, shouting MAGA all day, Donnie Trump, you got to work at light speed
Kim Jong ahead, ISIS behind
---- hey SMOD why cant you get here on time.

Dickin'Bimbos@Home said...

This is all hack D media payback for Hillary's loss.

robinintn said...

Good thing they got that guy Kelly to stop all the leaking.

Birkel said...

Did Trump not win the New Hampshire primary?

These calls are monitored by the NSA. One wonders who unmasked this particular call.

I want the MSM to draw more attention to the unmasking activities of Powers, Rice, Brennan and the rest. Strategic leaks of misinformation need to start happening, if they haven't yet.

Also, this leak is old. I wouldn't doubt the MSM saved some Priebus leaks for after his inevitable departure. Most embezzlement is found while the person is on vacation or just after they've quit. Best have a few leaks ready to roll.

Fernandinande said...

I Have Misplaced My Pants said...
Meth doesn't come from Mexico, though.


Yeah it does.

"Mexican cartels take over methamphetamine trade in the Ozarks"

"Overall 85% of meth in the US is produced in Mexican and Californian labs, but in Texas over 90% of the meth comes from Mexico."

"Mexico seizes 720 drums of meth precursor chemical from ship"

buwaya said...

"Do the people of New Hampshire really care who runs it all?"

Some do I suppose. More important is what the guys who run it all are doing.
Since what they do is a really big deal.

Back in the old days there wasn't really that much that the FedGov had to do with pocketbook issues. Now, it matters, as in the price of gas and the amount of your pension and what your insurance copay is and your FICA tax and your electric bill whether the new plant comes in or the old one leaves. And how much unemployment you get.

And more than anything whether your kids end up being like creatures in a wildlife reserve (like the urban underclass) or actual humans.

robinintn said...

Birkel, I really hope you are correct about this being more of a last gasp of old, saved up stuff.

Ignorance is Bliss said...

The picture is of the cog railway up Mt. Washington. I'll be crossing those tracks near the summit sometime early Sunday afternoon, if all goes according to plan.

Birkel said...

I am wrong a lot. YMMV

Xmas said...

"Though other New England states such as Vermont and Maine have seen spikes in opioid-related deaths, the granite state ranks No. 2 in the nation, behind West Virginia, for the number of opioid-related deaths relative to its population."


www.google.com/amp/s/www.usnews.com/news/best-states/articles/2017-06-28/why-new-hampshire-has-one-of-the-highest-rates-of-opioid-related-deaths%3fcontext=amp

Cacimbo Cacimbo said...

Sounds like Trump meant to say "I LOST NH because it is a drug infested den." How much are we supposed to trust the accuracy of these leaked transcripts.

cronus titan said...

The leaks of classified information from the Deep State are growing more bold and dangerous. THe President has every right to talk to foreign leaders confidentially, and some of those calls are sure to be tough ones. Imagine if someone leaked a transcript of a call between Obama and Netanyahu, who had a mercurial and frosty relationship (at best). Worse, now foreign leaders will be reluctant to talk to the PResident because some bureaucrat with access to the transcript may decide to try to make the President look bad and compromising the foreign leader. Kushner's extraordinary efforts to avoid local cell phones and landlines during the transition is prescient in retrospect. The PResident should look into alternative communication methods our intelligence and FBI knows nothing about.

I hope Sesssions is serious about prosecuting leakers because until one of them goes to jail for ten years there is no incentive to stop.

buwaya said...

"Overall 85% of meth in the US is produced in Mexican and Californian labs, "

Note "Californian". What I have been saying about the nature of the California Democratic Party. There are reasons for this.

If there were a Californian Duterte I would not be surprised to hear stories like this about municipalities in this state - note, the biggest problem there as here is meth.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-40768861

mockturtle said...

Well, Trump did win the NH GOP primary.

Henry said...

That's just really funny.

Bad Lieutenant said...

Michael K said...
I understand he is absolutely correct but the most important thing is who leaked that transcript ?

We are, I fear, seeing a slow motion coup d'etat in this country.

I don;t know if they have the guts for a violent one but we might see.


I would want to characterize it very precisely without any risk of being accused of hyperbole. What seems to be going on is a blatant yet subtle unrelenting and perfectly vicious usurpation or attempted usurpation of President Trump's legitimate powers of office. If there's a better word than Koo, perhaps some of the precisionists on this blog can supply it?




Chuck said...
The transcript of the conversation with President Pena Nieto was my favorite. And the business of the wall, which Pena Nieto did say that Mexico would not pay for.

How about if it was important security information? Like the recent disclosure of Trumps meeting with the general staff regarding Afghanistan strategy? Any reason to think that it won't be? There seems to be no risk, leakers leak with impunity.

It's beyond belief that these stories are being retailed. And you seem to lap it up. Tell me, are you prepared to discuss substance at all on this blog pass to the abusive president Trump?

Let me at least ask you this:

do you think it's suddenly going to stop when President Trump leaves office? In your fever dream of impeachment or perhaps resignation or death, do you imagine the ship or state will suddenly right itself for a President Pence?

mockturtle said...

Drug addicts, bless their hearts, should be rounded up and placed in detention camps where they can receive rehabilitative therapy. Right now, they are a danger to themselves and others as well as to society as a whole. Big problem. Probably our number one domestic problem.

HoodlumDoodlum said...

LifeLongRepublican Bill Kristal said a while back that if the choice is between the Deep State and the Trump State he prefers the Deep State.
Well, looks like he's getting his way.
Imagine the harm to our nation!
Someone leaks this stuff to make Trump look bad. Ha ha ha, stupid Trump.
Meanwhile by leaking these classified conversations these anti-Trump people have guaranteed that the Trump administration won't be able to have Frank discussions with other world leaders. Ever. Not with our President, and likely not with any of his subordinates. Why would any foreign leader risk it??
Oh well, the LifeLongRepublicans and the Media get to have a good laugh at Trump. Totally worth it.

Bad Lieutenant said...

HoodlumDoodlum said...
LifeLongRepublican Bill Kristal said a while back that if the choice is between the Deep State and the Trump State he prefers the Deep State.
Well, looks like he's getting his way.
Imagine the harm to our nation!



Maybe Frum is a Bush-signal that things are getting out of hand. We don't know if these, in effect, spies are Democrats or GOPe/NeverTrumpers.

Kelly definitely needs to solve the problem.

Bad Lieutenant said...

Let me throw this one out there. Have Trump and Bush spoken since Trump took office? I wonder if it would make sense for former President GW Bush to visit president Trump's White House, or they meet together at Camp David, or a Trump property, and have a nice confidential chat.

Trump needs to not get rolled by Bush, but perhaps they could have a productive exchange of views and opinions. Maybe Trump can get Bush to call off such dogs as are his. Maybe Bush has something to offer Trump.

David Begley said...

When I was on the campaign trail in Iowa with Hillary (see my reports at Power Line) she made a federal issue about supplying Narcan to local governments. She asserted as a fact that there was an opioid crisis in America in 2016. Narcan is used to reverse overdoses. This was the first I had heard of this crisis and drug.

If Hillary would have won, she would have passed the America Needs Narcan bill as item 1.

That tweet by the NH Dem party is absurd. All the fake outrage on this is absurd. The real outrage is that transcripts of private conversations between heads of state are being leaked. Leaked to hamstring Trump's ability to conduct diplomacy. Sick.

MayBee said...

I cannot believe the President of the United States is not going to be allowed secrecy even in his phone calls with world leaders. What is going on?

Chuck said...

Sean Hannity is now on a rant -- rant is the only word for it -- about how "the deep state" is now trying to take Trump down.

I wasn't aware that we knew how these transcripts were leaked; by whom; and what the leakers' motivations were. I also didn't know that on top of all of that, the leak was coordinated by, or performed in agency for, The Deep State.

Seriously; with none of that information in hand, where to people, like Hannity, step off in talking about a massive Deep State operation against President Trump?

mockturtle said...

Well, Chuckles, if you don't think the Deep State is trying to bring Trump down, you haven't been paying attention. I don't watch Hannity but I've figured this out on my own because it manifests itself daily.

Dickin'Bimbos@Home said...

@ Sounds like Trump meant to say "I LOST NH because it is a drug infested den." How much are we supposed to trust the accuracy of these leaked transcripts.

Exactly. Trump didn't win NH.

Darrell said...

Chuck watches as his beloved, effective GOPe departs for recess.

http://i.imgur.com/5alp022.gif

Birkel said...

In which Chuck pretends to be as stupid as we all believe him to be.

No late night musings about assaulting older women? No rants about how you never claimed to perform long-distance medical diagnosis of a preteen child? No demanding our hostess write about the things you want her to write?

You're slipping

Birkel said...

Funny, Darrell.

Fabi said...

I'm outraged that Hannity has an opinion -- the nerve!

Michael K said...

"Seriously; with none of that information in hand, where to people, like Hannity, step off in talking about a massive Deep State operation against President Trump?"

So, what's your theory booby ? Who has access to presidential phone call transcripts ?

NSA ?

mockturtle said...

Exactly. Trump didn't win NH.

He won the primary in NH.

The Cracker Emcee Activist said...

"In which Chuck pretends to be as stupid as we all believe him to be.

No late night musings about assaulting older women? No rants about how you never claimed to perform long-distance medical diagnosis of a preteen child? No demanding our hostess write about the things you want her to write?"

Chuck isn't shit-faced yet. Stay tuned.

Chuck said...

Michael K said...
...
So, what's your theory booby ? Who has access to presidential phone call transcripts ?

I don't have a theory. Because I have basically no information, apart from the fact of the leaks.

With no information, I'd never do something like suggest that "the deep state" is responsible. Particularly since nobody can clearly define "the deep state" in the first place.

I don't know who has a complete list of all persons who might have access to copies of presidential telephone call transcripts or recordings. I bet that you don't either. And I bet that Sean Hannity doesn't either.

Be said...

Eddie . Murphy . Laugh!

New Hampshire (or is it Vermont? or Maine? Or Rhode Island, even?) Qualifies as the "Meth Souri" of New England.

Massachusetts, New York as well, seem to be towing these barges along, much to the chagrin of many.

(Shrug.)

John said...


Blogger Todd Roberson said...

My general experience with rural New England:

You drive through about 5 boarded up, ramshackle shithole villages with inbred, toothless and utterly destitute white people. Then the sixth town is an espresso, arugula and croissant paradise with an arts council and a community playhouse. Then ... On the same road ... The cycle repeats ...


Didn't used to be that way. Vermont, New Hampshire, Connecticutt, Maine, Mass used to be manufacturing powerhouses.

Vermont and CT in particular were the machine tool capitol of the world. Bridgeport is a slum in CT. It is also a generic name for perhaps the most widely used type of mill. Every machine shop will have one or a dozen.

Fellows Gear Shaper Co used to employ over 3,000 people making gear shaping machines in a town of 8,000.

Part of what happened is that the folks in that 6th, hoity toity town, Home of the Sanders and the Deans, decided that the peasants making all those machine tools were spoiling the scenery.

And they put them out of business.

A number of other reasons too but that is certainly in the top 2-3.

John Henry

John said...

I still think we need to build the wall and I still think we can make Mexico pay for it. No, they won't write a check for the $10bn or so but there are other ways of making them pay.

We need a physical wall mainly for permanence.

OTOH, in just 6 months President Trump has built a pretty good virtual wall. You have illegal aliens self-deporting in large numbers because they are scared of getting caught. You have people not becoming illegal aliens, staying home, because they are scared of President Trump.

It is not 100% but it is a pretty good start.

And then we have all these new jobs. When everyone is working, a few illegals more or less has much less impact.

Agree with others that whoever leaked this needs to go to jail. They didn't just leak one side of the convo either. If I was president of Mexico, I would be steaming mad. Perhaps t President Trump because he can't mind his office. Though I might also be understanding of his problems.

Mexico does not have the first amendment. Perhaps what they should do is round up a few WaPo reporters who happen to be in Mexico and hold them hostage until the WaPo reveals its source.

John Henry

Ray said...

Question not asked - why now?

Achilles said...

"I don't know who has a complete list of all persons who might have access to copies of presidential telephone call transcripts or recordings. I bet that you don't either. And I bet that Sean Hannity doesn't either."

Nobody needs one. We aren't going to be picky Chuck.

These fuckheads need to be stopped. They will be stopped. If they are smart they will out the guilty ones and beg for forgiveness and respect the lawfully elected president. Or they can choose door number two.

Professional lady said...

Ray - it's coming out now to divert attention from what is turning out to be a real scandal - Debbie Wasserman Schultz likely being blackmailed by a Pakistani who work IT for Democratic Congressional staffers who is now being accused of bank fraud.

Birkel said...

Chuck demands a list of information that nobody possesses and nobody could collate, if they were so inclined, before making a decision.

That's just the sort of bull shit one would expect from a LLR who hopes a déclassé Republican president who supports gay issues would say.

Lem said...

How is White House leaking like college campus sex?

Neither has a lord Mueller like figure to take care of it for us.

dbp said...

Living in MA, 10 miles from NH, the heroin epidemic is killing more people by OD per year than traffic accidents or (GUN!) murders. Part of the reason is that it is laced with fentanyl. Meth has been and still is a problem, but the relatively new drug problem is opiates.

CStanley said...

"I don't know who has a complete list of all persons who might have access to copies of presidential telephone call transcripts or recordings. I bet that you don't either. And I bet that Sean Hannity doesn't either."

i don't know who is on that list either but what exactly is the theory here that would involve someone other than the enemies of Trump in NATSEC? Do you suppose this was leaked by a disgruntled WH custodial worker, maybe pissed off by Trump dissing the White House?

Renee said...

Agree with dbp, google Merrimack River and heroin needles. There are "camps" up and down New Hampshire with people overdosing left and right. It's really bad here, with Narcan used several times a day by police.

Ignorance is Bliss said...

I live and work in NH. Our office get a free local small-town paper each week, and I tend to browse it while heating up my lunch. One of my first stops is the police log

For a good while, the single biggest category in the log was police responding to drug overdoses. After a few months there was a noticeable change, the police log got much bigger, they were reporting every little fender bender and noise complaint. The number of overdoses didn't go down, but it was hidden in a bunch of trivial calls. I assume this was intentional.

Freder Frederson said...

Agree with others that whoever leaked this needs to go to jail.

And what exactly would the charge be? There was nothing discussed in either conversation that was classified. It is not illegal to leak unclassified information. The worst that can happen is you get fired.

Xmas said...

If I was being a dick, I'd say the Democrats message is, "New Hampshire can't have a drug problem, only white people live there."

Fabi said...

"There was nothing discussed in either conversation that was classified."

Says who?

MayBee said...

Yes, it's pretty. They've got that fall foliage, so how could they — why would they? — use drugs?

How embarrassing. From the party of compassion.

Marilyn Monroe was too pretty to die of a drug overdose. Heath Ledger way too handsome.
And Chris Cornell and Chester Bennington were much too successful to need drugs.
Why, we can judge from the outside what people are going through inside. That's just science!

Kevin said...

There was nothing discussed in either conversation that was classified. It is not illegal to leak unclassified information.

Transcripts of conversations between heads of state are automatically classified by their nature. Something doesn't have to contain classified information to be stamped classified. If it is stamped classified, it thereby contains classified information.

Heads of state need to know that their conversations with the President will be kept secret or confidential. Secret and confidential being levels of classification, by the way. We can't always know the implications for them domestically of what they say, and it would be imprudent for us to determine which of their words we can release and which we can't. Therefore, the entire conversation is given some level of classification to ensure other heads of state can continue to speak openly with the US President.

Unknown said...

@Michael K asks: "So, what's your theory booby ? Who has access to presidential phone call transcripts?"

Digital transcripts are given to senior-level staff with security clearances. How many senior people with security clearances have been fired by Trump in just the past few weeks? Hmmm, wow, that many. Doesn't take a brain surgeon to work this out.

HoodlumDoodlum said...

Freder Frederson said...And what exactly would the charge be? There was nothing discussed in either conversation that was classified. It is not illegal to leak unclassified information.

Are you simple? High-level private discussions like the ones at issue here are always initially classified. That was part of the stink about why "but her emails!" was such bullshit--when the Secretary of State has private discussions with members of other governments those discussions include information about the beliefs, thinking, plans, etc of the government of the United States. Lots of our enemies and allies would love to know those things and our government and nation has an interest in keeping them concealed.

But don't listen to me, I'm stupid. Here's the Washington Post, the outlet that published the fucking things:

Both documents obtained by The Post contain notes indicating that they were reviewed and classified by retired Lt. Gen. Keith Kellogg Jr., who serves as chief of staff on the National Security Council.

An official familiar with both conversations, who refused to speak on the record because the president’s calls have not been declassified, said

So, yeah: the transcripts were classified. By the Chief of Staff of the NSC. But hey, I guess "nothing discussed in either conversation was classified" so no big deal.

Freder Frederson said...

Transcripts of conversations between heads of state are automatically classified by their nature.

You just can't make an assertion like this without providing a link to the relevant statute. Granted,such conversations are not subject to release under FOIA, but to contend they are automatically classified is bullshit.

Unknown said...

CNN: Grand Jury
MSNBC: Grand Jury
Fox News: Video of Obama using a salad fork to eat a starter.

Ignorance is a virtue in Trumpland.

MayBee said...

Surely even people who don't like Trump can see that we need our president to be able to speak with world leaders privately.

Is there anyone here to make the case that he doesn't? That all of his communications should be public, and all world leader's communications with the US government should be public?

John said...

Ray asks why now

Dws & Awans

John Henry

Renee said...

"Surely even people who don't like Trump can see that we need our president to be able to speak with world leaders privately.

Is there anyone here to make the case that he doesn't?"

Their case is that that hate Trump that much, that nothing is off limits.

The Godfather said...

So Trump needs to stop these leaks, right? He needs to put the right folks on the job. Call up the DOJ and the FBI? No, they're too busy investigating his Presidential campaign, can't be bothered. The National Security folks? No, they think he's a Russian agent, and maybe they're the ones who leaked the transcripts. Trump needs some folks who are loyal to him to plug the leaks. Call them "the Plumbers". That's the ticket.

HoodlumDoodlum said...

Freder Frederson said...You just can't make an assertion like this without providing a link to the relevant statute.

I provided a link to the WashPo story where they say twice that the transcripts are classified.

Are you...is this an act? Are you pretending to not understand this, or are you serious?

The Washington Post is the outlet that published the transcripts. The Washington Post, while publishing the transcripts, mentions twice that they're classified. Do you think the Washington Post is, like, lying about that part of the story?

HoodlumDoodlum said...

What are the rules for someone who's mentally challenged? Is it like an undercover cop--if you ask them are they required to tell you that they're mentally challenged?
I don't want to be a jerk here; if this guy really has cognitive problems I don't want to make fun of him--maybe he's trying his best.

Balfegor said...

Trump! Thou shouldst be President at this hour,
America hath need of thee -- she is a den
Of drug-addicted fiends: jobless, hopeless men . . .

Chuck said...

Achilles said...
"I don't know who has a complete list of all persons who might have access to copies of presidential telephone call transcripts or recordings. I bet that you don't either. And I bet that Sean Hannity doesn't either."

Nobody needs one. We aren't going to be picky Chuck.

These fuckheads need to be stopped. They will be stopped. If they are smart they will out the guilty ones and beg for forgiveness and respect the lawfully elected president. Or they can choose door number two.

Okay, so I get; you are suggesting that certain treasonous anti-Trump "fuckheads" need to stop leaking and undermining the Trump Administration. Or else the Tea Party/TrumpWorld supporters will think about armed rebellion.

Rebellion against who? Who are "these fuckheads"? Even vaguely, who are they? Who do they work for? If you are connecting leaks to any "deep state," how are you doing that, exactly?

One recent leaker was that moronic rogue military contractor, Reality Winner. Is she part of the "deep state"? If she is "the deep state," I don't think the deep state stands a chance.

Is the DoJ "deep state"? Jeff Sessions and his personal protege Stephen Miller ought to have something to say about that. Is the DoD "deep state"? Generals Mattis, McMaster and Kelly ought to have something to say about that.

Mike said...

HT said...
I think the whole Mexican conversation is a huge nothingburger. I did not hear that he's insincere about wanting a wall and even wanting Mexico to pay for it. If so, he'd have reassured pena nieto, but he didn't do that.


Exactly. Stating that he's going to say "we're working it out" is a negotiating move. Further, nothing is settled. Congress appropriated some money but there's plenty of time for Trump to "make Mexico pay" in a wide variety of ways. If it fails it will be because people like Chuck-GOPe stymie the attempt legislatively. Like they do everything. When Trump gets the funding from Mexico will any LLRs come on here to say they were wrong and Trump was right? NO. They'll find some picayune excuse for why they are technically correct although factually lacking in their predictions.

Again.

Surprisingly.

Ken B said...

A test for General K: find the leaker.

HoodlumDoodlum said...

LifeLongRepublican: "I don't know nothin' 'bout no leakers. Shore is funny what done leaked, though."

Since the identity of the leakers in this specific case isn't known we can't assume anything about the leakers nor can we condemn their actions--since we don't know their motivations we aren't in a position to judge. For all we know they're the real heroes.
The "Deep State" doesn't exist since no one can provide me with a comprehensive list of the names of the people who make it up. Similarly "the Media" doesn't exist since there's not perfect uniformity of Leftist opinion (what about Hannity? what about Rush?!).

Only LifeLongRepublicans are being reasonable here. My demands that my opponents give me ironclad proof of any of their assertions and suppositions while I am allowed to make general statements based on no evidence other than what I assume to be true...that's reasonable. My stupefyingly pedantic takes on any number of subjects--specifically topics where my own assertions are untenable--are reasonable and how all discussions should be carried out.

Since you can't give me a list of the Deep State members it's reasonable to conclude the Deep State doesn't exist and isn't a useful metaphor for anything real.

The rest of you are crazy; we LifeLongRepublicans are the sane ones.

Ken B said...

"Surely even people who don't like Trump can see that we need our president to be able to speak with world leaders privately."

Not on the liberal sites I visit. There was a discussion of just this point on Jerry Coyne's site. It's quite clear this is just a double standard, but it's remarkable the extent to which they feel comfortable pushing such a naked double standard. There are no rules for Trump haters.

CStanley said...

Chuck, can you please explain who you believe might be responsible for these leaks, and why we shouldn't be concerned about it?

Chuck said...

I didn't say that we shouldn't be concerned about leaks. I think we should be concerned.

What I do not understand is how they are attributed to any "deep state." We don't know who has done most of this leaking. In the few cases where we do know, it's no "deep state." Not Julian Assange, not the laughably low-grade spearphishing of the DNC, not Edward Snowden, not Reality Winner.

I don't think anyone can even define the deep state, much less provide evidence linking the deep state to anti-Trump leaks.

CStanley said...

@Chuck- would you concede that the fact that we don't know the identity of the leakers yet, and that these are high level leaks (your use of the "rogue employee Reality Winner" is a straw man), makes it likely that there is a conspiracy of some sort among officials who have high level security clearance to damage this administration? I don't care if you think "Deep State" is overwrought, I think you have to admit that there is likely a group of people in government who are doing this, and they have cover from others who know what they are doing but look the other way or cooperate in the efforts.

Ken B said...

Chuck
Is Trump the leaker?
Is a Trump loyalist the leaker?
Is an Obama appointee the leaker?
Is a career nonpolitical appointment bureaucrat the leaker?

I'd say it's got to be 3 or 4. 4 would be "the deep state". I.e, a career employee who feels entitled to *overrule* the decisions of the political appointees and elected officials by the improper application of the levers of power entrusted to him.

President-Mom-Jeans said...

Spergy retard makes pedantic excuses, film at 11.

Chuck said...

A twofer!

CStanley said...
@Chuck- would you concede that the fact that we don't know the identity of the leakers yet, and that these are high level leaks (your use of the "rogue employee Reality Winner" is a straw man), makes it likely that there is a conspiracy of some sort among officials who have high level security clearance to damage this administration? I don't care if you think "Deep State" is overwrought, I think you have to admit that there is likely a group of people in government who are doing this, and they have cover from others who know what they are doing but look the other way or cooperate in the efforts.

Yes; I think "Deep State" is overwrought. Hysterical. And completely lacking in any credible evidentiary support.

I admit that this Administration has seen a lot of leaks. I don't know why there have been so many leaks. Nobody has shown us a thing about any leak conspiracy. Nobody has shown me who is leaking, whether or not it is concerted, or part of any "group."


Blogger Ken B said...
Chuck
Is Trump the leaker?
Is a Trump loyalist the leaker?
Is an Obama appointee the leaker?
Is a career nonpolitical appointment bureaucrat the leaker?

See above, Ken B. Leaks may have been done by Obama/Dem loyalists in the civil service. Or, by former Trump loyalists who were fired/jilted/rejected by Trump. Or, by knowledgeable, well-meaning, self-identifying patriots who feel that Trump is a clear and present danger to the country based on stuff we don't know. Or, by a foreign intelligence service.

Or, by a combination of any/all of the above. (My guess is that it is a combination of all of the above, and more. Thereby putting the lie to any "Deep State" blame.)

HoodlumDoodlum said...

Or, by knowledgeable, well-meaning, self-identifying patriots who feel that Trump is a clear and present danger to the country based on stuff we don't know.

There it is!
that's the Bill Kristol-approved line. The criminal leakers are the real champions, since they're committing those criminal acts in service of harming Trump. If they happen to harm the nation in the process, well...small price to pay, right?

"Hey, we just don't know--they could be heroes! It's just too early to tell. It'll...always be too early to tell."
Lovely.

CStanley said...

I dislike Trump and hate that things got so bad that people felt we needed to elect him. But to use a medical analogy, Trump is like a virus that causes little direct damage, but the fulminating immune reaction destroys the host.

From what I've seen, Trump is a blowhard and he is uncouth, has questionable ethics, and is intellectually lazy. We have survived presidents who were as bad or worse but they were people who came from within the system so their liabilities were covered up.

. On the positive side, Trump has astute political instincts and his political capital is based on a desire to disrupt the corruption of the status quo. It also goes without saying that on the positive side, he prevented HRC from becoming president.

As for his negatives, they are considerable but they do NOT represent an existential threat to the USA while the fulminating reactions of the people who are pretending that Trump is an existential threat are what really does threaten to destroy our nation.

Jim at said...

"I cannot believe the President of the United States is not going to be allowed secrecy even in his phone calls with world leaders. What is going on?"

Hillary lost.
And the fifth-column left refuses to accept it.

Nothing more.

Ken B said...

I am pleased to have prompted Chuck to finally express an obvious truth: to him anything at all is justified if it serves to hurt Trump.