August 11, 2017
"Do not look at the flash or fireball – It can blind you."
It's not advice for watching the solar eclipse. It's advice for the people of Guam.
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195 comments:
So much winning.
Are there still Trumpists here that are laughing at the people who were worrying about a nuclear conflagration? Is it getting real yet?
You would hate to be blind and incinerated.
I live adjacent to D.C.
It has been "real" here since the early 1990s.
Now go ahead and tell me that even way back then, decades ago, it was Trump's fault.
I seem to recall that the followers of Felonia von Pantsuit were claiming that Trump was going to start a nuclear war with Russia. But I guess that's inoperative now.
Oh yeah, Russia. Good thing Congress tied President Trump's hands dealing with them, what with the sanctimonious sanctions and all. Because Russia doesn't matter except as a stick to beat Trump with.
"I live adjacent to D.C.
It has been "real" here since the early 1990s.
Now go ahead and tell me that even way back then, decades ago, it was Trump's fault."
Are you seriously saying that you are now or ever have been as much in the bullseye as Guam is at this very moment? Bullshit.
If your eyes can see the blast, then you have absorbed enough radiation that you will not survive anyway. Dead and blind is not a worse condition.
You know, dumbass, it wasn't all that long ago that a jet liner flew into the Pentagon and another jet liner was bound for the White House before my high school friend and a bunch of others died bringing it down.
If Islamic radicals develop a suitcase nuke or boat nuke (or buy one from the cash-starved North Koreans), DC is very much in the bullseye, and has been for years. And everyone whose been paying attention to national security affairs for the last 20 years knows it.
So GFYS, you blinkered fecking idiot.
People like to laugh at the "Duck and Cover" shows, because they were funny, but despite that they were actually good advice since far more people are killed by flying debris than by getting fried in the fireball.
Etienne said...
If your eyes can see the blast, then you have absorbed enough radiation that you will not survive anyway.
No.
"I seem to recall.... were claiming that Trump was going to start a nuclear war with Russia."
“You’re going to end up in world war three over Syria if we listen to Hillary Clinton,”
Trump
Not even a year in office and Trump has us on the brink of a nuclear war with North Korea. What are a few million lives when it comes to Trump showing Kim Jung Un that "I'm the biggest boy on the block and don't you forget it!".
"You know, dumbass, it wasn't all that long ago that a jet liner flew into the Pentagon and another jet liner was bound for the White House before my high school friend and a bunch of others died bringing it down."
Obama and Bush weren't provoking a madman with nukes, dumbass.
"Not even a year in office and Trump has us on the brink of a nuclear war with North Korea."
-- How is it Trump's fault North Korea has declared they want to bomb Guam? Do you think Trump should abandon our territory?
Whoever was president was going to have North Korea threaten Guam. What did Trump do to provoke him? Say: "Stop threatening America with nuclear holocaust," only in a mean way?
Would you rather us... not have asked the North Koreans stop threatening a nuclear holocaust of America or American allies?
I remember well the Cuban missile crisis in the fall of 1962. Trust me on this, people were more worried about what could happen then, then they are now.
Good thing that JFK didn't threaten Russia back then. Oh, wait, yes he did.
If Trump's generals tell him they can wipe out the Nork threat with conventional weapons and without vast proximate loss of civilian life, then Trump should bomb now.
"Are there still Trumpists here that are laughing at the people who were worrying about a nuclear conflagration? Is it getting real yet?"
You hysterical ninnies screamed constantly for eight years that Ronny Raygun was going to kill us all!!!!!
So, stuff it.
Go worry about climate change or some other stupid thing you have no control over.
Unknown leftwing talking point - who is launching missiles? Is Trump lunching missiles? In leftwing dumb-fuk land, Trump is launching missiles and making threats.
Rachel Maddow show has the details.
I'd rather settle this decisively now than when the NorKs have missiles that can reach Honolulu and Anchorage and reliably hit their targets.
Why assume nukes will be used on North Korea first? The new directed energy weapons are stronger than are needed to end Kim's way of life. Or are we holding them back to see if China starts something?
I'm hiking up a 14,000 foot peek on Monday the 21st. 14er during an eclipse. yeah baby.
Do leftwingers care that Venezuela is a socialist hell hole, where ordinary citizens and their voices are smothered and kept down by the state? Do leftists care that Kim Jong Un builds prisons and stuffs his prisons with anyone who dare speak out against the commie regime? Lil' Kimmy threatens the world with his paranoid fantasies and actual missiles, and the left jump on Trump, and blame Reagan.
Trump stands his group for us and leftist whine on Q.
"We are now prepared [Nagasaki and Hiroshima were facts at this time] to obliterate more rapidly and completely every productive enterprise the Japanese have above ground in any city. We shall destroy their docks, their factories, and their communications. Let there be no mistake; we shall completely destroy Japan's power to make war."
Would Truman ever have allowed our country to have been so mismanaged through appeasement (Carter, Clinton & not-so-Albright especially, Bush 43, Obama) that the best that officials can say is, "Don't look at the flash."
We're being threatened with nuclear war by this tiny country. Don't think Iran isn't paying attention.
Yikes!
group = ground.
"Stop and think about it for a second. If we accept the fact that a war fought on the Korean peninsula -- if waged with no nuclear, chemical or biological weapons, which is by no means a certainty—it stands to reason that the number of conventional weapons used by North and South Korea, America and likely Japan or others would flatten large sections of the Korea peninsula. To make matters worse, such carnage would likely spread to the Japanese home islands, U.S. military bases around the region or even Guam, Hawaii or Alaska.
To focus our minds around this terrifying problem, let us consider for a moment just one of the many very real scenarios that could occur in what would be a Second Korean War. If, for example, North Korea were to launch a salvo of artillery shells into Seoul, South Korea’s capital—just a mere 35 miles from the Demilitarized Zone (DMZ) that separates north and south—the devastation could be catastrophic. Imagine countless skyscrapers and tall buildings collapsing to the earth, millions of people fleeing to mass transit and clogging all exits out of one of the world’s largest cities. It would be, in many respects, 9/11—but times a hundred. The rebuilding of downtown Seoul would be in the billions of dollars, not to mention the rebuilding of countless people’s lives. Just that one act alone, in what could be the opening chapter of a war the brutality of which we have not seen in generations—not to mention would be magnified on social media many times over—would horrify us all for generations to come."
http://nation.foxnews.com/2017/08/10/war-north-korea-would-be-hell-and-aftermath-even-worse
"Are you seriously saying that you are now or ever have been as much in the bullseye as Guam is at this very moment? Bullshit."
Guam is not in the bullseye at the moment. Maybe in a year or so, but not yet. Anyone who was in NYC or DC on 9/11 was more in the bullseye than Guam is. Anyone in the military for the past twenty years was more in the bullseye than Guam is. Anyone in the police forces right now is more in the bullseye than Guam is.
You are the one who is full of shit.
"North Korea were to launch a salvo of artillery shells into Seoul, South Korea’s capital—just a mere 35 miles from the Demilitarized Zone (DMZ) that separates north and south—the devastation could be catastrophic"
That tends to be exaggerated. Significant damage, definitely. But not complete destruction. Not all of their artillery can reach Seoul, and it would quickly start falling prey to the counterattacks.
Are you seriously saying that you are now or ever have been as much in the bullseye as Guam is at this very moment?
Some of us grew up in a time when every school held periodic duck and cover drills to teach kids how best to survive a nuclear strike. We practiced time and again to get under our desks, curl into a ball, cover our heads, and close our eyes in the hope that we'd live through it.
My kids have never done that.
That we have limited it to Guam at the present moment, and are working hard not to let Guam become the entire Continental US once again, seems like a nice gift to future generations.
Notknown says:
If, for example, North Korea were to launch a salvo of artillery shells into Seoul, South Korea’s capital—just a mere 35 miles from the Demilitarized Zone (DMZ) that separates north and south—the devastation could be catastrophic.
That would be the start of a war that will end with the total destruction of North Korea. Do you really think that South Korea and the US military won't respond?
Russia got what they wanted out of the 62 missile crisis. We gave them the game when we agreed to remove missiles from Turkey and Iran.
Not that it mattered much, because missile technology had advanced to the point that the short range missiles were uneconomical, and man-power intensive anyway.
Anytime Trump says anything, the left meltdown.
obama could say the exact same words, and the left would marvel.
So Unknown thinks that if North Korea attacks South Korea, it's all Trump's fault.
Why?
Oh, yes, of course. It's the "Everything bad is a Republican's fault, while anything good is because of Democrats."
Hey idiot: what's the Democrat plan to solve North Korea? There isn't one, is there? Except wait until Lil' Kim can incinerate tens of millions of Democrats in US cities, and then what--surrender? Let Lil Kim put his feet up on the Resolute desk and start dictating?
I think that's the end game for Democrats: Surrendering to some tinpot dictator like Iran or NK... as long as they get to run the occupation, of course. Then they can rule without listening to those pesky voters.
--Vance
"That would be the start of a war that will end with the total destruction of North Korea. Do you really think that South Korea and the US military won't respond?"
Of course they'll respond. How does that response negate the hundreds of thousands, if not millions of lost lives? Are these lives expendable? Maybe you should go visit.
The rebuilding of downtown Seoul would be in the billions of dollars, not to mention the rebuilding of countless people’s lives.
Notice the author is not including the rebuilding of downtown Tokyo, Honolulu, Seattle, San Francisco, Boston, and NYC to the grisly description.
Because he doesn't have to do that. Yet.
It would be, in many respects, 9/11—but times a hundred.
"9/11 times a hundred? Jesus, that's --"
"Yes. Ninety-one thousand, one hundred."
Etienne,
"If your eyes can see the blast, then you have absorbed enough radiation that you will not survive anyway."
You might go to this site and play around with the effects:
http://nuclearsecrecy.com/nukemap/
Bottom line: For very small nuclear detonations, the lethal dose of prompt radiation reaches out beyond the other lethal effects. For about a 10-kt or higher, if you're dead from prompt radiation, something else (blast, thermal effects, fire) was probably going to get you anyway.
A few people survived the explosions at Hiroshima or Nagasaki at distances below 1 mile from Ground Zero. At two miles or more, lots of people survived and did not develop acute radiation sickness. They were able to see it.
Are you seriously saying that you are now or ever have been as much in the bullseye as Guam is at this very moment?
I am. I grew up on U.S. air force bases in the U.K. during the Cold War. I lived with the reality of having multiple nuclear warheads aimed at my head.
"- it can blind you."
It's the hair on the palms I'm worried about.
Fernandinande said...
far more people are killed by flying debris than by getting fried in the fireball.
Not quite and it depends on a lot.
"Nine survivors of Hiroshima who travelled to Nagasaki avoided blasted glass and flying debris at the second nuclear explosion because they knew that the blast effect (breaking windows and blasting glass fragments and other debris horizontally) was slightly delayed after the flash (like thunder after lightning), so they had time to literally duck and cover from part of the heat flash and horizontally flying glass and debris."
Were those nine people lucky or unlucky?
How do you know you are a complete idiot and Leftwing lackey?
You try to blame the tensions between North Korea (who has been openly and continuously at war with the U.S. since June 1950) and the U.S. on President Trump.
obama could say the exact same words, and the left would marvel.
Obama the peacemaker would be ending yet another war, this time in Korea. He'd also be ridding the world of a brutal dictator and liberating millions of Koreans and their descendants to a better, more equal, and more diverse future. In addition, he'd be removing nuclear weapons and the technology to make them from the world stage, just as his Nobel Peace Prize correctly anticipated.
I'm sure they'd work climate change in there as well.
Someone needs to invent a phrase that describes when a political leader rattles on about action with pointy weapons as a threat, but not as a literal statement of intent.
This entire chain of events was utterly predictable in the 90's.
Even the Dennis Rodman parts...
Yeah, I grew up in eye-shot of a structure known locally as the Blue Cube, part of AFSATCOM, later Onizuka AFB. Everyone, child and adult, knew that it would be ground zero if the day ever came. Duck and Cover drills in school, evacuation drills, the whole nine yards.
Welcome to the Cold War, v.2.
Any sane person would regard Kim Jong-Un as the aggressor, and blame Bill Clinton, George W. Bush, and, especially, Barack Obama for letting the current situation fester until Kim's threats are all too plausible.
But we have multiple insane commentators here.
I thought Guam had already tipped over?
"Un came. Un saw. Guam died, hahahahahaha!"
President Hillary Clinton
As Scott M. pointed out, it took 25 years to get to this point.
But for Inga and other idiot Leftists, history and the world began when Trump took office.
And it is really rich to hear John ("Bomb,bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb Iran") McCain bitching about Trump's rhetoric.
NK conducted 2 nuclear tests last year. I somehow missed the leftist concern expressed at the time.
My worry - fat boy's a lunatic in very poor health with gout (unless that's been debunked) and seems to have gained a lot of weight (over 250 now?). He's also justifiably paranoid that west may find some clever medical way to kill him. So if he starts dying from some natural cause -- or thinks he is dying (maybe he mistakes a severe gas attack/heart burn for a west-induced heart attack) -- what does he do? Does he go gently into that good night or does he say no, this is the way my world ends . . . Not with a whimper but a bang!
If so, isn't there a decent chance (greater than 20% at least) that NK launches nukes within the next 10-20 years even if not provoked? Someone tell me why that estimate is wrong.
It's not a good development.
Of course, crazy people should not have nuclear weapons. But we apparently thought if we kept appeasing the North Koreans that we could come to an arrangement. This was an incredibly stupid idea.
So of course we are now doing the same with Iran.
There are also statements by Pres Clinton and Pres Obama the describe the destruction of the north should they use nukes.
I'm not a lawyer but I have heard of the felony murder charge. Anyone involved in a crime that results in a murder, whether they were an eager participant or a dupe, gets charged with the murder.
There's plenty of people to charge if Hell Comes to Guam.
Fabi said...
I thought Guam had already tipped over?
Surely the great thinker Hank Johnson saved it from certain disaster.
Jim at
A couple of nuclear blasts should lower the temperature-like the eruption of Krakatoa. Plus pretty sunsets.
I like guamcamole.
I have a winning strategy for Hillary. She should fly to Guam and preach a rousing sermon on the need for world peace in a Methodist church there. If Kim backs down, it will be the result of Hillary's brave gesture and not Trump's bellicose rhetoric. If Kim uses a nuclear weapon, Hillary will be remembered as a martyr for peace. Win win for her and for us.
Thanks, Nonapod -- I forgot the name of the eminent scholar who made that comment!
"Trump may destroy the world, in other words, but that’s better than another few years of liberal rule. Nobody needs to love liberalism to grasp, a year later, that this cost-benefit analysis was demented, and that the country made an error in embracing the logic, wittingly or otherwise. Now, as Trump makes unhinged threats to begin a nuclear war against North Korea, anyone who deluded themselves into taking a flyer on the Trump presidency no longer has any excuse for not recognizing what’s been plain all along: It is not remotely safe for him to hold this office."
https://newrepublic.com/article/144301/republicans-remove-madman-power
Trump doesn't act: isolationist!
Trump acts: interventionist!
To the Left, there are two players in this crisis.
1) A dangerous, megalomanical lunatic who threatens world peace with nuclear attack.
2) Kim Jong-un.
Whatever we do--or don't--it should not involve a preemptive strike or a forced regime change. Let's respond to any attack by a declaration of war and act accordingly.
For those who believe that removal of Kim is the answer: Do you believe the Cubans would have cheered had we been successful in taking out Castro in the 1960's? How many times have we miscalculated the results of political assassinations? Every time that I know of.
No. I think China's official announcement is their actual position, since it seems eminently sensible: If Trump starts something, they will consider that an attack on China itself, but if Kim starts something and Trump retaliates, that is not going to be a Chinese problem.
So, there is a chance, since we know so little about the place, that there may be some nut in North Korea who may be able to start something, but we still are in much greater risk from a primitive "dirty" bomb rigged up by some Middle Eastern fanatic, of which we know there are plenty, but not exactly who or where with what means and abilities.
I didn't know The New Republic wanted Trump gone -- that definitely changes my mind!
~
Trump is counting on nuclear winter to solve global warming because India and Pakistan are taking too long.
Are there still Trumpists here that are laughing at the people who were worrying about a nuclear conflagration?
You should have more to worry about calling someone a "Trumpist."
And you do.
I participated in my small way in the MAD game we played with the Soviets back in the 1960s and 1970s. The stakes were of the highest, and none of the players had any doubts what they were. Kim is new to the table, and I think Trump is reminding him, in his short-fingered-vulgarian way, that the game may be too rich for his blood.
Surgical strike pretty simple, wait until dark and target any building with lights on.
Take out the politicians and military all at once.
And then what, Full Moon? Did killing Saddam solve the problems of Iraq or did it exacerbate them? Gadaffi in Lybia? Do you think the NorKs will abandon communism and gleefully join with South Korea in a free state?
Are there still Trumpists here that are laughing at the people who were worrying about a nuclear conflagration? Is it getting real yet?
No, it isn't getting real yet. Whoa Fat! is not threatening to nuke Guam. He's threatening to shoot some conventional IRBMs into the ocean near Guam. Yes, it's provocative. No, it's not "nuclear conflagration" or anything close to it.
Guam has, arguably, suffered a great deal from its American connection.
As have the other main islands of the Marianas.
It was an out-of-the-way Spanish possession, a colony in name only, with no garrison worth the name and a few priests, living an unspoiled island idyll.
Then the US expedition (some of the same that reinforced the US garrison that finally annexed Hawaii) passed through in 1898 grabbing it on the way to the Philippines and the siege of Manila.
Since then Guam has suffered a Japanese occupation and a devastating liberation battle in 1944. And has been turned into a US base and nuclear target. In Spanish hands it would probably have stayed what it was.
"I didn't know The New Republic wanted Trump gone -- that definitely changes my mind!"
No one is trying to get you to change your mind. It was posted to show you just how stupid you are and that there are conservatives who still are thinking rational people.
I read "unhinged" the same as I read "running dogs," a sign of attempted propaganda. Writers need to learn how to leave off these desperate sounding adjectives, because it makes their arguments seem a lot weaker. But I guess some people need to be told how to think, so maybe it fits the audience.
"Yes, it's provocative. No, it's not "nuclear conflagration" or anything close to it."
You have absolutely no way of knowing what comes next after that.
I have long thought that German and Japanese culture were broken by World War 2. In recent years, I have come to think that our culture was broken also. We should have finished the job in Korea back in 1953, but we had lost the will.
"I read "unhinged" the same as I read "running dogs," a sign of attempted propaganda."
There are times such as these that those descriptors are very apt. I see efforts to tamp down the reality of what is happening as propaganda.
Did killing Saddam solve the problems of Iraq or did it exacerbate them?
Saddam Hussein was a major reason why "It has been 'real' here [in D.C.] since the early 1990s" (see 12:20 p.m.). That is, he was a major reason why there was a real possibility back then of D.C. being nuked. And that is why by the afternoon of September 11, 2001, Saddam Hussein was no longer an acceptable risk and he needed to go, whether he had anything to do with those attacks or not.
Michelle should send one of her sad-face Tweets to Kim Jong-un, with a message on her posterboard of "Don't Nuke Me Bro." #Don'tNukeMeBro. Smart diplomacy.
You have absolutely no way of knowing what comes next after that.
Why would we nuke the Norks for dropping a couple of missiles into the drink? They've been doing it near Japan for years now.
Won't happen.
I have long thought that German and Japanese culture were broken by World War 2. In recent years, I have come to think that our culture was broken also. We should have finished the job in Korea back in 1953, but we had lost the will.
The will to do what? "Finishing the job in Korea" would have meant declared war with China right over the Chinese border, thousands of miles from the US. When the truce was signed the Chinese were bringing up modern artillery, the lack of which explained their ineffectiveness on the battlefield. We would have had a damn difficult time pushing up to the Chinese border and actually ending the war there. There's a good chance they would have won.
It's easy to forget how much we internalized in the '40s and '50s that's just never occurred to anyone younger.
I grew up 7 miles from the White House with an air raid siren across the street. It would be tested at noon on Saturdays, and if it went off any other time (and it would) I knew that if it was "the real thing" I'd be gone in ten minutes max. That was me in elementary school. I knew that if the blast didn't get me I'd envy the ones that it had. And life went on. We played "duck and cover" knowing full well that it wouldn't mean anything to us.
And this was before "Alas, Babylon" or "On the Beach". Of course, if I tried I might be able to spin that into a PTSD diagnosis and excuse my being such a summabitch all my days, but, no.
There are times such as these that those descriptors are very apt. I see efforts to tamp down the reality of what is happening as propaganda.
Odd. I see efforts to blow the situation completely out of proportion for propaganda purposes.
"I see efforts to tamp down the reality of what is happening as propaganda."
Mocking someone who's longing for the days of her Sane/Freeze rallies isn't tamping down reality.
"Are there still Trumpists here that are laughing at the people who were worrying about a nuclear conflagration? Is it getting real yet?"
Hey, "unknown".... Presidents have kicked the North Korean Nuke can down the road for decades. Bill Clinton even sold NK those two Nuke reactors that are MAKING THE BOMB.
Trump is just the president the can was kicked to... and it's about to explode, one way or another.
If you are gonna cry... cry about the corrupt spineless politicians that allowed this to get that far.
"Fuck Away The Fear" t-shirts would be available at my Amazon store. If I had one. And they allowed it.
"This man will not get away with what he is doing," Trump told reporters. "If he utters one threat in the form of an overt threat ... or if he does anything with respect to Guam, or any place else that is an American territory or an America ally, he will truly regret it and he will regret it fast.""
When we see pictures of smoking ruins and burnt corpses, I'd like to hear the praises for your Dear Leader Trump. The people of Guam, South Korea, Japan and surrounding areas are not worth considering, as long as Trump gets to be the strong man in Trump World. He and you people will face the blowback.
When we see pictures of smoking ruins and burnt corpses, I'd like to hear the praises for your Dear Leader Trump.
When we don't, will you finally admit you've internalized messaging from people who are manipulating you for their own benefit?
Unknown Inga should travel to North Korea with Chuck and the Althouse Lefties to stand in solidarity with Kim and the North Korean anti-Trumpers. That could also feed a few people, if the Norks aren't too picky.
When we see pictures of smoking ruins and burnt corpses
Nah. A layer of fine, greyish-white dust. Kids in America will recreate the scenes with chalk on the sidewalks.
"When we see pictures of smoking ruins and burnt corpses, I'd like to hear the praises for your Dear Leader Trump."
-- Do you think it more or less likely that North Korea will bomb somewhere if Trump:
A) Warns them not to or face consequences
B) Politely asks them not to bomb people
C) Does nothing
D) None of the above -- North Korea gonna' North Korea
"Fuck Away The Fear" t-shirts would be available at my Amazon store. If I had one. And they allowed it.
Yeah. Whatever happened to, We have nothing to fear but fear itself?
Yeah. Whatever happened to, We have nothing to fear but fear itself?
To be fair, the man making that statement was wealthy, powerful, and protected with the full resources of the government.
So, Bob, are you saying we have become a nation of cowards, afraid to face a foe head-on lest someone gets hurt? Are you one of those here who believe he should have been uninvolved in WWII?
FDR made that statement in his first inaugural address in 1932, before Hitler even came to power, let alone attacked anyone. He wasn't talking about war - he was talking about the depression.
Anyway, my point was it's kind of empty from someone who literally has nothing to fear.
"When we see pictures of smoking ruins and burnt corpses, I'd like to hear the praises for your Dear Leader Trump."
We will blame Clinton for helping the norks get nukes just like Obama helped the Iranians.
So, Inga, what course of action do you think Trump should take? What would you do?
You carp and scold and whine whenever Trump does or says anything. What's your plan of action, genius?
"To be fair, the man making that statement was wealthy, powerful, and protected with the full resources of the government."
Yes, and in fact, a lot of the people he said it to were dead within a few years.
It is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing.
"We will blame Clinton for helping the norks get nukes just like Obama helped the Iranians."
You may recall that it was Bill Clinton who approved the Loral sale of ICBM guidance technology to the Chi-Coms in return for a few illegal campaign donations. The ICBM that takes out DC won't be launched in North Korea.
buwaya: I suppose Guam could have remained as it was in Spanish hands, but you are getting into major hypotheticals. For Guam to remain a Spanish possession requires that the Spanish-American War never happen, followed by Spain retaining control rather than ceding the territory to one of the other powers. Spain was a third-rate power so it seems unlikely they would retain possession if Japan, the United States, or any of the major European powers pressed the issue (as the USA eventually did).
It is interesting to consider what would have happened in WWII with a Spanish Philippines still in existence. I suppose the Japanese might bypass it considering a neutral Spain to not be a concern in their expansion and or a threat to their oil supply lines. The status of the Franco/Hitler relationship would be key. Perhaps Spain would be pressed to join the Axis or else risk loss of their Pacific possessions. If the Philippines managed to gain independence then I would expect a Japanese invasion at the earliest convenience and the disposition of the rest of the Spanish Pacific territory is unknown. Japan would be an interested buyer. There is still a great potential for a mess.
nothing to fear but fear itself?
To be fair, the man making that statement was wealthy, powerful, and protected with the full resources of the government.
And the man who said it got the basic idea from others. Maybe not as egregious a plagiarist as Uncle Joe Biden, but the credit he gets is undue.
Previously Francis Bacon said, "Nothing is terrible except fear itself." And in his dystopian 1907 novel, Lord of the World, Robert Hugh Benson writes of a time where "There is no longer the fear of fear . . ."
respect the rights and privileges of other countries, and this situation would seem in a way like that, after all, North Korea
Do you think we should respect the rights and privileges of rapists to rape and murderers to murder?
North Korea is not a legitimate, lawful state by any just understanding of the term. It certainly is not the political embodiment of the people who are imprisoned there under a brutal regime.
North Korea has no rights or privileges of nationhood that are worth respecting. Just as Nazi Germany had no rights or privileges to engage in genocide of millions.
This little farce is all about China. They can rein in the Norks any time they want.
This is so damn simple. Trump is a businessman, I'm not sure why he hasn't thought of it.
Send Dennis Rodman to NK with an offer from Trump that includes an NBA team, draft pick advantages, and a Yuge Trump-like basketball arena in exchange for an agreement about NK nuclear ambitions.
FDR made that statement in his first inaugural address in 1932, before Hitler even came to power, let alone attacked anyone. He wasn't talking about war - he was talking about the depression.
Yes, I do realize that. But the point is valid. Fear will bring a country to it's knees, economically or militarily.
You can repurpose solar eclipse glasses for fireball viewing.
I think we all know that FDR did not coin the phrase. The Bible expresses the same sentiment in many places. The point was not who said it but the fact that it is true. Someone unwilling to face the possibility of death will not be willing to fight a war.
Land wars in Asia, as we have learned, are a waste of lives and resources and I'm not recommending that. If N. Korea attacks first, we should attack last. With thoroughness and without remorse.
How many times have we miscalculated the results of political assassinations? Every time that I know of.
?
Name them, mockturtle, please. Tell me which successful assassinations performed by the US had a bad result? First, identify the hits in question.
Castro would be an example of an UNSUCCESSFUL hit.
I think it would be the height of immorality to wait for KJU to draw first blood. You get all the impacts of the war - Seoul-on-fire, Guam-bye, whatever - with him having first mover advantage; and in the end, we probably make peace with him afterwards if it saves, oh, another ten thousand lives (millions having already died).
Dictators have to have accountability!
"North Korea has no rights or privileges of nationhood that are worth respecting. Just as Nazi Germany had no rights or privileges to engage in genocide of millions."
Just like Trump has no right to engage in the genocide of millions by running his big mouth.
Trump just said in a news conference with Tillerson and Nikki Haley, that the US has a military option in Venezuela. What happened to your non interventionist President? Big threatening mouth regarding North Korea, now talking about military intervention in Venezuela.
You people voted for this man.
'Just like Trump has no right to engage in the genocide of millions by running his big mouth."
LOL. Trump steals 'unknown' souls on a daily basis. I'd say he's making progress.
'You people voted for this man."
And I will again.
You people voted for this man.
Get back to me after he starts a couple of wars, destabilizes and entire region and starts a tidal wave of migration like Obama did.
I hope all you Trumpists die horrible deaths. You can all go to Hell
Unknown said...
I hope all you Trumpists die horrible deaths. You can all go to Hell
8/11/17, 5:18 PM
Of course you do, nothing has changed. Typical leftist. SAD!
"You can all go to Hell."
So it's a date?
"Unknown" @5:18PM a different Unknown, not me. Probably a Moby.
Unknown said...
Trump just said in a news conference with Tillerson and Nikki Haley, that the US has a military option in Venezuela. What happened to your non interventionist President? Big threatening mouth regarding North Korea, now talking about military intervention in Venezuela.
You people voted for this man.
8/11/17, 5:11 PM
the
Yep, unlike leftists who do not care about others, Trump sees the long lines for food and basics and wishes to help the poor and the working classes. Winning!
You can all go to Hell
I've already been to San Francisco and don't want to go back.
BL, two recent examples are Hussein and Qaddafi. But there are at least a dozen examples where the US was at least complicit in a 'targeted attack' against a head of state. Diem, in South Vietnam, for one.
Blogger Unknown said...
"Unknown" @5:18PM a different Unknown, not me. Probably a Moby.
8/11/17, 5:22 PM
You lie!
"You lie!"
Check the Blogger IDs. While I don't like you people very much, I wouldn't want you to die.
Just like Trump has no right to engage in the genocide of millions by running his big mouth.
So you are equating Trump's "running his big mouth" to the Holocaust? To the butchers who killed millions in the gas showers and put their bodies in the ovens?
You really are one foul wretch.
"Check the Blogger IDs. While I don't like you people very much, I wouldn't want you to die."
Sure, make us do the work to protect your reputation. How about you individualize yourself and avoid confusion? Yeah, that's what I thought.
OK...it seems we have 76 B-52 bombers in service, about 90 B-1, maybe 20 B-2.
Each of these can carry somewhere around 200-300 GBU-39 or GBU-53 Small Diameter Bombs or other weapons. (Other a/c like the F-15 or F-16 can carry a smaller number, say 20 each, and we probably have a thousand or more of those.)
So if we concentrated every aircraft we have on the Norks, we could put maybe 60-80,000 precision guided munitions on target at about the same time. Given 10,000 artillery emplacements, that's 6-8 per tube, assuming all goes well.
Of course we would never have ALL our a/c servicing one theater. We also don't own 80,000 SDBs. But you could divide by 8 and have one bomb per target. That leaves many a/c to chase down his nukes and of course the leadership itself.
So, in theory, we could take out all his conventional Seoul-on-fire threat at once, assuming we had good intel on their coordinates, that one SDB suffices to destroy these bunkers, etc.
Tougher than you might think to get all those up in the air at once. Also I don't know if there are any better weapons to use for this purpose, e.g. JSOW.
Tough to do it without Russian/Chinese knowledge, hence, NK knowledge.
So it would seem in theory we could do it. There is also ground artillery, Tomahawks, Special Forces, etc.; and of course the bombers and fighters can rearm and attack again.
But no cakewalk.
Sorry, posting before phone died...
"Unknown" = the Borg
Kim Jong Un and the American Left sing the exact same tune.
Crazy Kim Jung Un threatens us, threatens Guam, fires missiles...
Trump responds... Left and Kim Jong Un scream "stop spreading violence! waaa!"
Hilarious.
"Just like Trump has no right to engage in the genocide of millions by running his big mouth."
Careful, Inga. You keep taking the side of Kim Jong-un and I just might start to question your patriotism.
Again.
Contrary to what happened in Europe when people were liberated from the Germans, or when East Germans were liberated from the USSR, our efforts to win the hearts and minds of people in Asia and the ME have failed. Miserably.
"I hope all you Trumpists die horrible deaths. You can all go to Hell"
Is this the "new civility" we used to hear so much about?
Unknown said...
"You lie!"
Check the Blogger IDs. While I don't like you people very much, I wouldn't want you to die.
8/11/17, 5:26 PM
Stupid. Sign out of one gmail and sign into another to change id. Everyone knows it, Inga SAD!
We weren't looking to capture him. He was going to be road kill.
Instead, we imprisoned Noriega, therefore paying for his upkeep until dead at 83. And then Carter gives away control of the Panama Canal.
Fear will bring a country to it's knees, economically or militarily.
Which is probably why Trump wants America to feel so much of it.
" You keep taking the side of Kim Jong-un and I just might start to question your patriotism."
Ooooooo, that scares me so much! My patriotism is solid, but I doubt yours is, as you are nothing more than a Trump sychophant. Trump could start WW3 and you'd love him all the more. You're not only a Trump sychophant, you're a fool.
Qaddafi was butchered by Libyan rebels under air cover from NATO. I would not have done this at all. No point.
Saddam was not assassinated, unfortunately; the decapitation strike failed. He was hanged after full due process by the Iraqi justice system after his capture by coalition forces. A successful hit could have changed history.
.
'Just like Trump has no right to engage in the genocide of millions by running his big mouth."
Trump can kill milions just by talking? Wow, not even comic book super villains have that power. It's a wonder to me how leftists have been able to survive the onslaught of Trump's words, when every syllable has the force of an ICBM missile. "Covfefe" alone slew thousands.
"Stupid. Sign out of one gmail and sign into another to change id. Everyone knows it, Inga SAD!"
Hahahaha! The "Unknown" Blogger ID matches YOURS Full Moon!
UnknownInga thinks The New Republic is conservative. Lulz
So you are equating Trump's "running his big mouth" to the Holocaust?
People who think nuclear war rhetoric should be engaged casually and with unnecessary bellicosity obviously put at greater risk the lives of millions.
There's a reason they call it "nuclear holocaust". Maximizing survivors is the opposite of the point.
In Trump and Un's case, it might be a sloppy holocaust, but a holocaust nonetheless. Less deliberative than the original deal. An accidental holocaust.
Failure to prevent unnecessary wars is as bad as negligent homicide/manslaughter on a national level.
I'll give TTR credit, at least he owns his stupidity.
"Trump can kill milions just by talking? Wow, not even comic book super villains have that power. It's a wonder to me how leftists have been able to survive the onslaught of Trump's words, when every syllable has the force of an ICBM missile. "Covfefe" alone slew thousands."
His words are a provocation to someone has nutty as he is.
"You can all go to Hell"
"I've already been to San Francisco and don't want to go back."
I'm sitting here looking for flames - none apparent.
Its not Hell, its just expensive, but it can be comfortable if rather self-obsessed and snooty. And it is very pretty of course.
But God and a huge lot of conservative Catholic artisans, whose families mostly ran off to Novato and Petaluma in the 1950's-70's, made the pretty part.
The current population hasn't much to do with it.
BART isn't what it should be either.
I'll give TTR credit, at least he owns his stupidity.
What the fuck's that supposed to mean, you 13-year old pimple-cunt fuckhead?
Go excerpt whatever thought was "stupid" and explain how it didn't live up to the standards of a poker like yourself, who's never had any responsibility over any other person's life whatsoever.
Earlier, I asked:
So, Inga, what course of action do you think Trump should take? What would you do?
The reply:
"I hope all you Trumpists die horrible deaths. You can all go to Hell"
That's exactly what little Kim wants too, but it doesn't answer the question.
But we all know Inga has no answer, and is here only whine and spit like a baby in a high chair.
"...you 13-year old pimple-cunt fuckhead?"
The civility -- it oozes!
"His words are a provocation to someone has nutty as he is."
Have you ever played Texas Hold 'Em? I'll give you a hint. Sometimes it's best to drive someone out of the game that is betting like they don't know how to play because they have an Ace. You want them out quickly before they draw more strength on the flop.
The civility -- it oozes!
When it comes to someone who thinks guaranteeing the nuclear peace is a joke, I'll put him as much on the spot as he deserves. And he deserves no mercy.
"People who think nuclear war rhetoric should be engaged casually and with unnecessary bellicosity obviously put at greater risk the lives of millions."
Yes, we all remember how Reagan started WWIII with his announcement that we would start bombing Russia in 5 minutes.
And how Chamberlain's deference to Hitler averted WWII.
Some of you peoples need a nap.
At least there is a warning. The people of Libya, Yemen, Syria, Iraq, Ukraine, etc. were merely the butt of preemptive social justice adventures. The abortion fields are still open and CAIR is a clear and progressive threat to native people globally. That's not including the collateral damage forced by the Pro-Choice Church and its militant Planned Parenthood wing advocated by the twilight fringe.
Yes, we all remember how Reagan started WWIII with his announcement that we would start bombing Russia in 5 minutes.
He didn't know the mike was on during his joke and wasn't broadcasting it for global media as a direct message to Russia. You Reagan-worshippers really should try to get your history straight.
"Greater risk" doesn't mean inevitable. Do you know what the word "risk" means?
And how Chamberlain's deference to Hitler averted WWII.
What does deference to Hitler have to do with rhetoric? You're appeasing someone by not "talking tough" about a war you have no intention of fighting?
Full Moon asks: So what? We want to be popular, or be safe?
That's my point. Our safety and security should come first. Toppling of dictators in the ME and SE Asia has only resulted in worse situations. We had thought to install a neutral government in Iraq but the extremists saw the vacuum and filled it quickly. Winning hearts and minds should not be on our strategic agenda.
What does deference to Hitler have to do with rhetoric? You're appeasing someone by not "talking tough" about a war you have no intention of fighting?
I don't care if we speak softly or loudly so long as we carry the bigger stick. And aren't afraid to use it.
Inga Unknown said
"His words are a provocation to someone has nutty as he is."
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Well, that explains you.
Why do you periodically hide behind that Unknown moniker, Inga? Don't you realize that it just shows you are nuttier than vegans' poop?
"I don't care if we speak softly or loudly so long as we carry the bigger stick. And aren't afraid to use it."
Collateral damage in hundreds of thousands or even millions of lives be damned! Let's play nuclear war with Trump!
I don't care if we speak softly or loudly so long as we carry the bigger stick. And aren't afraid to use it.
Ok, so it's official. Your side now thinks that nuclear conflict is a risk-free endeavor that we should in no way seek to avoid or prevent. Thanks for playing.
Worth it if it prevents NK from bombing SF bay area and driving my real estate prices down.
And right-wingers say lefties aren't pro-life! The righty above thinks property is more important.
No wonder we had to fight a civil war just to end slavery.
"He didn't know the mike was on during his joke"
Did he? I wonder. RR was a sly one.
Slyness and pre-Alzheimers usually don't go together.
This was only a year before the start of the Iran-Contra affair that he later claimed to not remember approving.
Guam has, arguably, suffered a great deal from its American connection.
As have the other main islands of the Marianas.
It was an out-of-the-way Spanish possession, a colony in name only, with no garrison worth the name and a few priests, living an unspoiled island idyll."
Yeah, buwaya, except the Spanish killed almost all of the male Chamarros in the Mariannas and consolidated the suvivors on Guam where they were segregated in enclaves to prevent rebellion. Then Filipinos were brought in to mate with the Chamoarro women, which is why all the existing Mariana Islanders are 5' 5" tall and 300 pounds instead of 6' 5" and 300 pounds like they were when the Spanish arrived. But, I guess it depends on your definition of idyllic. BTW, have you reviewed the economic, cultural and opportunity advantages of Guamanians as compared to, say, the Marshall Islanders and other Micronesians (or the filipinos for that matter?) Didn't think so. If you had, you would have noted that the Guamanian per capita GNP in 2010 was about $14,754 as compared to $3,785 in the Philippines, $2113 in the Marshall Islands, $8565 in the Cook Islands and $2,937 in the Society Islands to name a few. In fact, Guam per capita GNP was ranked 76th of 219 countries in 2010. If this is "suffering from its American connection" I would surmise some of the other folks in the neighborhood would gladly trade places.
" he later claimed to not remember approving."
RR was a sly one long before l'affaire Iran-Contra.
I suspect a great deal is done (and always has been) as thus -
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turning_a_blind_eye
Why do you periodically hide behind that Unknown moniker, Inga? Don't you realize that it just shows you are nuttier than vegans' poop?
I love these people who are always trying to find sockpuppets. They're so terrified someone is trying to pull something over on them it derails them from the argument and they just go straight into paranoia.
I'm hiking up a 14,000 foot peek on Monday the 21st. 14er during an eclipse. yeah baby.
It may spoil the effect. You can see too far, in particular to blue sky all around.
That was what I noticed at 10,000 ft over the Atlantic during totality in 1970 or whenever it was.
The trouble with thermonuclear war isn't the heat, it's the humidity.
"I love these people who are always trying to find sockpuppets. They're so terrified someone is trying to pull something over on them it derails them from the argument and they just go straight into paranoia."
Always? terrified? paranoia? the argument? Ah there it is. Yes, if only unknown made an argument beyond Trump bad and history began yesterday then there'd be something to discuss.
" but if Kim starts something and Trump retaliates, that is not going to be a Chinese problem."
China may not be interested in North Korea, but North Korea is certainly interested in China.
If there's any conflict, how many NK refugees will flood into China? The ChiComs can't shoot them all.
Thanks, Madeline Albright!
BTW, I saw RR in a parked limo waving to a wall w/ zero people in front of him. This was 1990.
The dude's brain was toast by then.
Anywho, I shook his hand with a little chat, before he was in the limo.
Occasion: Goodwill Games, Seattle. Me = kid w/ access.
"Go excerpt whatever thought was "stupid" and explain how it didn't live up to the standards of a poker like yourself, who's never had any responsibility over any other person's life whatsoever."
No thanks, I've read this blog for over 10 years, and I rarely comment, but I don't need to provide footnotes for your stupidity. Relax, I give you credit for owning your opinions. I don't consider you part of the Borg. Yet.
I hope all you Trumpists die horrible deaths. You can all go to Hell
Heh. It's funny when the trolls lose it.
Ok, so it's official. Your side now thinks that nuclear conflict is a risk-free endeavor that we should in no way seek to avoid or prevent.
Three different administrations have swept this problem under the rug. If it's really gonna go nuclear (it's not, but let's just say it does for the sake of my hypothetical), do you want to slug it out now when Kim has about a dozen bombs with a really shaky long range delivery platform, or do you want to wait another decade for when he has hundreds plus reliable ICBMs?
Three different administrations have swept this problem under the rug, and it's only getting worse. What's your solution? More of the same?
"Someone needs to invent a phrase that describes when a political leader rattles on about action with pointy weapons as a threat, but not as a literal statement of intent."
Sabre prattling
Kim Jung Un and the left are now one with each other.
RH
RE: hiking 14er on day of eclipse.
It may spoil the effect. You can see too far, in particular to blue sky all around.
That was what I noticed at 10,000 ft over the Atlantic during totality in 1970 or whenever it was.
We're not even in the best viewing zone. Everyone is traveling to Nebraska or Wyoming for a better experience. All sorts of problems can occur to ruin a big hike. Bad weather or jet stream pushing all of the British Columbia fire smoke into the area --to name a few.
Guess who is not worried about a nuke lobbed at Guam? 10's of thousands retired US miltary men that have the where with all to leave.They understand the capability of the US Military. They aren't loosing any sleep.
The NK nuclear program is not yet viable. Under the Democratic right to abort unwanted, inconvenient, and otherwise unworthy things, the Choice is to send #CecileTheCannibal and staff from Planned Parenthood, armed with high capacity scalpels, to abort the "baby" (a.k.a. nuclear weapons).
I'm hiking up a 14,000 foot peek on Monday the 21st. 14er during an eclipse. yeah baby.
Climbing Longs Peak in CO by any chance? I have a picture of my grandparents on the summit and my grandmother is wearing a dress. Back in the 1920's. They lived in the area and climbed it several times as did my great aunt. A great uncle got altitude sickness every time and never made it to the top.
The Toothless Revolutionary said...
Worth it if it prevents NK from bombing SF bay area and driving my real estate prices down.
And right-wingers say lefties aren't pro-life! The righty above thinks property is more important.
And TTR pretends he is that stupid. Or maybe you actually didn't get it.
No wonder we had to fight a civil war just to end slavery.
No. We had to fight a civil war to force the democrats to give up their slaves. Later we had to send in the NG to force them to give up Jim Crow.
Unknown said...
"North Korea has no rights or privileges of nationhood that are worth respecting. Just as Nazi Germany had no rights or privileges to engage in genocide of millions."
Just like Trump has no right to engage in the genocide of millions by running his big mouth.
Trump just said in a news conference with Tillerson and Nikki Haley, that the US has a military option in Venezuela. What happened to your non interventionist President? Big threatening mouth regarding North Korea, now talking about military intervention in Venezuela.
This is how stupid and traitorous the left has become.
You people voted for this man.
And unlike Clinton Bush Obama he is actually running the country like an adult. Remember when Clinton and Carter struck that awesome deal with the Norks where we gave them technical and monetary support for their "nuclear energy program" and the Norks promised not to make Nuclear Weapons?
Obama thought it worked out so well he did the same thing with Iran shipping them pallets of cash illegally while lying to congress.
Oh that's right history started this morning for you people. That's what makes you so smart.
Francisco D said...
This little farce is all about China. They can rein in the Norks any time they want.
8/11/17, 4:52 PM
And they did.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/china-warns-north-korea-youre-on-your-own-if-you-go-after-the-us/2017/08/11/a01a4396-7e68-11e7-9026-4a0a64977c92_story.html?utm_term=.828c138f2139
Up to now, China has always warned the US about meddling and instigating in the Korean peninsula. But president Trump conferred with the Chinese premier and, for the first time, China has told the Norks to cool it. No pallets of cash, food for oil, or enriched uranium bribes from this president. Just the promise to annihilate enemies.
No wonder we had to fight a civil war just to end slavery.
Yeah, the Democrats have always been stubborn.
Blogger Unknown said...
"That would be the start of a war that will end with the total destruction of North Korea. Do you really think that South Korea and the US military won't respond?"
"Of course they'll respond. How does that response negate the hundreds of thousands, if not millions of lost lives? Are these lives expendable? Maybe you should go visit."
I think now would be a good time to run around and panic.
Lil'Kim has sacrificed the readiness of his conventional weapons and troops in favor of nukes and missiles. In other words he is not prepared to launch a conventional strike against anyone.
S Korea doesn't want a war with N Korea because they will win and they don't want the expense of rebuilding N Korea or the responsibility of taking care of a population that have no skills to take care of themselves.
If Lil'Kim wishes to survive to die of old age he as a very limited number of moves he can make. Furthermore we know those moves and have anticipated the out comes. Lil'Kim knows this. Or at least suspects it. He will negotiate the move that causes him the least personal pain while leaving his dictatorship intact.
You're making the same mistake you made in the election. You're assuming Trump is a fool. He is not.
Mock turtle
Climbing Longs Peak in CO by any chance? I have a picture of my grandparents on the summit and my grandmother is wearing a dress. Back in the 1920's. They lived in the area and climbed it several times as did my great aunt. A great uncle got altitude sickness every time and never made it to the top.
Not Longs Peak. I do not want to climb that particular peak. It's tough and very long!
@MockTurtle--
A photo of your folks on the summit is way cool!
My mother went with a group some decades ago. They freaked out near the last pitch and didn't summit.
"Are you seriously saying that you are now or ever have been as much in the bullseye as Guam is at this very moment?
I am. I grew up on U.S. air force bases in the U.K. during the Cold War. I lived with the reality of having multiple nuclear warheads aimed at my head."
I spent my college years looking over at the bottom of Cheyenne Mtn, entrance to NORAD. The expectation at the time was that the Soviets would try to dig them out there, and that the only way that anyone would survive would be if they miscalculated the nuclear fratricide (earlier arriving warheads taking out later arriving ones).
I for one am more concerned with Fat Boi effecting the stock market than the zero probability of him nuking Guam. NK has nuclear devices. NK has missiles. To say that NK has nuclear bombs that can be luanched by a reliable missile and hit a target that is US soil is way more than what NK can currently do. If Fat Boi was anywhere near to having that capability the Chinese Army would be currently occupying NK. The Chinese are not going to commit economic suicide. Any attack on US soil by NK, especially a nuclear attack of any kind means the instant curtailment of all trade relations with China and a ban on any imports with Chinese components from anywhere in the world. That would result in the Chinese economy to implode and with that comes the loss of heads to the leaders of the Chinese Communist Party and ranking military and other government officials.
Chinese generals like and Communist Party officials like tweaking the US a lot, but not enough to literally lose their heads for the fun of tweaking the US. Trump knows who he is talking to and it isn't limited to Fat Boi.
"Climbing Longs Peak in CO by any chance? I have a picture of my grandparents on the summit and my grandmother is wearing a dress. Back in the 1920's. They lived in the area and climbed it several times as did my great aunt. A great uncle got altitude sickness every time and never made it to the top."
A couple days ago, leaving the condo in CO, again noticed photos by my grandfather, probably at that time, of Longs and Garden of the Gods. His photos were some sort of brown tone. Grandmother used that camera into the 1950s (we have photos of some of the horses from that era). The Garden of the Gods photo is interesting, because the road through there, running south of Kissing Camel, is a dirt path, as contrasted to the bumper to bumper traffic on a well paved road that were there by the mid 1960s.
Of the five of us boys, my father took me (oldest) and the youngest up Longs as young teenagers, as his father had taken him (mid 1930s). Two of the others went up when at camp near Estes Park. I wanted to make it a fourth generation, with my kid, but between my acrophobia (partly from losing my youngest brother in a climbing accident) and being busy, they climbed it at that same camp before I could take them up.
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