July 30, 2017

"Yes, it’s true that Hillary Clinton got more votes, but he got the votes of more than 62 million people — and I am pretty sure I don’t know any of them."

"You can make a rude joke about Donald Trump in places like Washington and the Upper West Side of Manhattan, and be confident that nothing you say will give offense."

Michael Kinsley begins an op-ed in the NYT with a joke, confident that it will not give offense.
It would be nice, I have long thought, to have an openly opinionated press as Britain does, with papers such as The Guardian in London.Instead of hiding their biases, writers and correspondents could say what they think, and readers could discount accordingly. Well, since Mr. Trump became a serious possibility for president, we have had that world I longed for, and I’m not so sure I want it. The New York Times, The Washington Post, CNN and other establishment outlets have been brazenly, laughably hostile to Mr. Trump, in their news pages as well as their opinion sections. Maybe this hostility is justified. In fact, I think it probably is....
Meanwhile, we were just out motoring across a good section of the heartland. We stopped by the side of the road to get a picture of the old family farm in Perrysville, Indiana, and I happened to turn around and notice this:

P1140242

66 comments:

Gahrie said...

Yeah, because the press wasn't hostile to republicans and in bed with democrats before Trump......

Mr. Kinsley has his causation exactly backwards.....

David Begley said...

Back home again in Indiana where Michael Kingsley is unknown.

Paco Wové said...

"...and I am pretty sure I don't know any of them."

Kinsley might be surprised.

Mark said...

The anti-Trumpers keep raising this highly misleading point as if it is indicative of the entire nation. It is not.

The fact is that in 49 of 50 states, it is Trump who got a majority of the votes. About two million more last time I checked. Again, Trump received an overwhelming majority in nearly the entire country.

It was in one state, a one party state where many Republicans do not bother to vote -- California -- that Hillary received such disproportionate numbers as to be able to claim a majority.

But California does not speak for the rest of the country. California is not representative of the rest of the country. And that is before we get into the issue of voter fraud.

AllenS said...

I have a 25' flag pole with a 5' x 8' American flag. It is mounted in a 16' x 4' bx 4' field stone and cement structure that I built. Growing out of the top of the structure are blue rug junipers.

In front of the flag pole facing the road is my Trump/Pence sign.

Suck it, libs.

chuck said...

> In fact, I think it probably is...

Kinsley imitates his ancestor, Brave Sir Robin.

Achilles said...

The coastal elite seems really bent on making sure they are better off than everyone around them.

The regulations that have been impoverishing flyover country are being taken down. That must gall them.

EDH said...

As my research assistant in this project, Izzy Rode, observed, the vitriol tended to weaken as the weeks went on — vitriol against Mr. Trump, against The New York Times, against me. This is a common phenomenon on the internet. The rage generally isn’t sustainable, and inevitably starts to get repetitive.

That's because the pro-Clinton anger was ginned-up, and paper-thin, like her support. Meanwhile, the anger behind the Trump movement is just getting started.

In the middle is the mainstream media, giving Democrats gauzy assurance while truly pissing-off the Trumpharians.

Michael K said...

During the Civil War New York City talked of secession. Now California is threatening the same.

Could we get those two together and convince them to leave the rest of us alone ?

Chicago is imploding. Minneapolis, from the sound of that Mayor candidate, will soon do the same.

Portland and Seattle could be attached to California as the rest of both states would be relieved to see them gone.

Austin is pretty harmless as it is in the middle of Texas.

Sebastian said...

He began with a joke? You mean the kind that doesn't make deplorables go ha-ha in their deplorably tacky way? I do like the tweaking of the true believers, though.

Of course, MK suffers from a bit of TDS himself: "the truly shocking possibility that Mr. Trump conspired with Russia." As opposed to the actual not-shocking reality that O and Hill "conspired" with Russia, from reset to screw-the-Poles to speaking fees to uranium deal.

Kinsley does have an excellent line: ". . . that something will come along to rid us of this turbulent hotelier." Not that I agree with the sentiment.

Didn't quite now how to take this line, though: Maxine Waters has been awesome for man years. Tongue-in-cheek, right? I mean, she, of the 700 billion who would lose coverage? That's not even a gaffe, if you know what mean.

As noted upthread, he doesn't know that he doesn't know any Trump voters, which he does sorta signal. Many of us keep our head down, more so in DC and NYC, I imagine. Had he known any of us, he would have written differently about Trump's "popularity."

Darrell said...

I think it probably is

Bullshit. Every reporter, every columnist is assigned to do anti-Trump stories every day. The conclusion is pre-determined, not random. How do you think Obama's Presidency would be going at the same point in time if he had received this treatment? The MSM is dead. COD? Suicide.

William said...

I think the media, Democrats, and never Trumpers think that their constant badgering of Trump over nothing-burgers is making more people think like them. I personally doubt that. What they are doing is continually irritating, dare I say inflaming, a group of people who are pretty fed up with them already. If they do get their wish and bring down the President, I would not want to them.

Khesanh 0802 said...

@Michael K I admit that I have been shocked by the daily headlines in the MPLS Star Tribune. A shooting here, a multiple shooting there, day after day. It is beginning to look a bit like Chicago. No wonder the police are so nervous that they do stupid shit.

Mark said...

I think the media, Democrats, and never Trumpers think that their constant badgering of Trump over nothing-burgers is making more people think like them.

Like I pointed out yesterday, it is this very group that has this obsessive hate for Trump who paradoxically have created Trump. And the more they spew, the stronger they make him.

Besides, jealousy tends to make people enraged. And they can't stand it that people prefer him over them.

Mark said...

I'm sure that I am not the only one who was originally going to sit out the election and not vote for either of the two.

And then came the Hollywood Access attack, which was a preview of all the mouth-foaming Trump-hate we are treated to daily. And we saw the opposition and Establishment for what it really is. And we knew that they were the existential enemy of the nation and they could never be allowed anywhere near government power. And to the extent that they already have power, having infested the entire government, they need to be rooted out.

Hence, the vote for Trump was decided for a lot of us. It is they who led to Trump's victory and it is they who keep up support for Trump.

MikeR said...

"All the vilification has actually numbed people’s reaction to the truly shocking possibility that Mr. Trump conspired with Russia to steal the 2016 election...Julius and Ethel Rosenberg were executed for something similar."
Talk about numb. They were convicted of transmitting _nuclear weapon designs_ to the Soviet Union, which was at that time our major antagonist in a cold world war.
It would be truly shocking if Mr. Trump did something similar, but no one is suggesting anything remotely comparable...

Sam L. said...

Can you say "Bos-Wash Bubble", boys and girls? Yes, I KNEW you could.

Birkel said...

It would also be truly shocking if a coven of witches conspired to grow a batch of gnomes in the left nostril of Michael Kinsley. And the odds of what Kinsley describes is similar.

buwaya said...

On this matter I follow the strategy of Cato the Elder (delenda est Carthago).

Repeat until the matter becomes obvious.
This is an organized, top-down directed propaganda system.
Kinsley is just a hireling.

Note, the propaganda system is using the same Catonian strategy, delendus est Trump.

Brookzene said...

The fact is that in 49 of 50 states, it is Trump who got a majority of the votes.

Really? Do tell.

Omaha1 said...

Behold the modern day reincarnation of Pauline Kael, who actually did not say she knew no one who voted for Nixon, but rather, "I only know one person who voted for Nixon. Where they are I don't know. They're outside my ken. But sometimes when I'm in a theater I can feel them." Feel this now, please.

Angel-Dyne said...

MikeR: "All the vilification has actually numbed people’s reaction to the truly shocking possibility that Mr. Trump conspired with Russia to steal the 2016 election...Julius and Ethel Rosenberg were executed for something similar."

I hadn't read the article but this made me click. Good grief, he really does drag in Alger Hiss and the Rosenbergs blandly enough to make one suspect he actually believes the bullshit his caste is putting out these days.

On the one hand, the level of groupthink insanity at play here is kinda entertaining. On the other hand, these crazy-ass biyatches still have a lot of power. (And there are people who think we should be worried about how crazy Trump is...)

Original Mike said...

"Really? Do tell."

Is he wrong?

Michael K said...

Map of Election results.

Earnest Prole said...

You're mistaking the truth for a joke. He quite literally means he does not know a single Trump voter. There are places like that in this country, and he happens to live in one of them.

Michael said...

What kind of asshole brags about not knowing a single soul with different political views. And we should care about his opinions?

Mark said...

Clinton received about 2.9 million more votes "nationwide." Sounds fairly substantial, until you realize that of that, in California alone she received about 4.3 million more votes.

Do the math.

Outside California, Trump won by about 1.4 million votes.

Original Mike said...

There you go, Brookzene.

Robert Cook said...

"I'm sure that I am not the only one who was originally going to sit out the election and not vote for either of the two.

"And then came the Hollywood Access attack, which was a preview of all the mouth-foaming Trump-hate we are treated to daily. And we saw the opposition and Establishment for what it really is. And we knew that they were the existential enemy of the nation and they could never be allowed anywhere near government power. And to the extent that they already have power, having infested the entire government, they need to be rooted out.

"Hence, the vote for Trump was decided for a lot of us. It is they who led to Trump's victory and it is they who keep up support for Trump."


It's pretty stupid to vote for someone you hadn't previously intended to vote for simply because he pisses off people you dislike. Just because you dislike them doesn't mean they're wrong in particular instances...as in the Trump's instance. I didn't ever intend to vote for either Trump or Clinton, and I didn't, (though I did vote). They're both wretched human beings and candidates, and I would never have been inspired to vote for either of them under any circumstances. And, of course, Trump is proving to be as wretched a president as his wretchedness as a human being indicated he would be.

tcrosse said...

I didn't ever intend to vote for either Trump or Clinton, and I didn't, (though I did vote).

In NV Dems sued to keep Jill Stein off the ballot (after having screwed Bernie in the primary and convention). Not everybody had your choice.

Mark said...

simply because he pisses off people you dislike. Just because you dislike them doesn't mean they're wrong in particular instances.

This of course -- as you well know -- is an intentional lie. It is not at all what I said.

I repeat myself -- and you are included in this:

"we knew that they were the existential enemy of the nation and they could never be allowed anywhere near government power"

gadfly said...

The Perrysville farmer, like all Trump supporters, lacks imagination. At another edge of the Hoosier State, a homeowner and veteran from Fort Wayne hung a Trump doll from a noose in a large tree. The Trump-likeness was holding a USSR flag.

Later, Trump was cut down and a scene showing Putin holding the dead body of Trump was on display at the tree base.

Michael said...

gadfly
Russia. Putin. USSR. You are a lap behind, dude, as are the good people of Fort Wayne attempting to join the smart Khardashian crowd of thinkers.

OldManRick said...

It was in one state, a one party state where many Republicans do not bother to vote -- California -- that Hillary received such disproportionate numbers as to be able to claim a majority.

Interesting facts about the California Vote in the presidential election.

Registered voters in California
Registered voters 18,055,783 48.8%
Democratic 7,932,373 43.9%
Republican 5,225,675 28.9%
D–R spread +2,706,698
D-R Ratio 1.52 to 1

Presidential Vote
Democratic Hillary Clinton 8,753,788 61.73%
Republican Donald Trump 4,483,810 31.62%
Independents total 943,997 6.65%
D–R spread +4,269,978
D-R Ratio 1.95 to 1

Democrats got 821,415 more votes than their registration. Republican got 741,865 less.
Because of the open primaries, there were precincts in California where republicans had no one to vote for so they and republican leaning independents stayed home. They didn't expect to carry California for Trump, didn't have a senate candidate to vote for, and probably in some local elections didn't even have the dog catcher to vote for. I'll bet that no other state saw such a drop off of ratios between registered voters and votes cast. It is one of the reasons why Hillary's I-won-the-popular-vote means nothing.

gadfly said...

Mark said...
I'm sure that I am not the only one who was originally going to sit out the election and not vote for either of the two.

And then came the Hollywood Access attack . . .


So you refused to believe your eyes and ears and choose to believe that Trump, the woman-chaser, was incapable of saying and doing what he said he did? Then there are the recordings of Trump and even Melania on Howard Stern's show - many times talking sex. Additionally, there is the lawsuits by the juvenile who claimed that Trump raped her, his association with convicted pedophile Jeffrey Epstein, the claims from beauty contest contestants, wives of associates and his unannounced visits into the beauty contestant dressing rooms. That is a whole lot of smoke to ignore an I am sure that I probably forgot other incidents. So I didn't ignore it because that has been the way Trump has acted since way back into the early 1980s. I voted third party.

Kevin said...

Perhaps Kinsey should take this as evidence his viewpoints don't reflect "America" or even "Americans" I general, but a distorted slice of the country. Perhaps he should have a warning label on his columns to that effect.

To that end, what happened to all the journalists who were going out to the country to learn about these other Americans?

Oh right, too busy covering Trump's Tweets and speculating about Jarred's money laundering for the Russian mob.

gadfly said...

Mark said ...
"we knew that they were the existential enemy of the nation and they could never be allowed anywhere near government power"

Don't know why the Royal "We" was included in this comment, since you have no idea what motivated others to vote for the Mango Moron.

Funny that during the campaign, the nameless members of the "Establishment" were waived around as dangerous. But I knew from my reading about Trump in the many volumes outlining has life, that the man was likely to be far more dangerous to conservatism than anything else imaginable. Six plus months into his elected term and chaos rules.

Read "Death of a Fucking Salesman."

Leora said...

I am amazed that someone as smart as Kinsley believes in the Russia collusion. I don't know anyone who believes it, including a large number of Democrats and Never Trumpers. But then they all read stuff written by people they don't agree with occassionally and even talk to them.

Michael K said...

"you have no idea what motivated others to vote for the Mango Moron."

Have you gotten off your meds again ?

Show me on the electoral map where the bad orange man touched you.

William said...

Klaus Fuchs was the spy who gave the Soviets a leg up on the A-bomb. The Rosenbergs' big contribution to world peace was supplying info on the proximity fuse. The proximity fuse allowed Soviet anti aircraft batteries to bring down Gary Powers U2 plane. I saw that Spielberg/Tom Hanks movie about the Gary Powers spy swap. The movie made much of anti- Communist hysteria but did not mention that the shooting down of Powers' plane was made possible by the work of American Communist spies.........The libs used to stress the importance of coexistence and accommodation in our dealings with the USSR. You make peace with your enemies, as the saying goes. We now find out what it takes for Russians to get on the fighting side of libs. They released info harmful to the DNC. This has released far more anti-Russian antipathy among the left than all the various spy scandals.

PWS said...

Why does that Festivus pole have a Trump flag on top of it?

gadfly said...

Michael said...
gadfly
Russia. Putin. USSR. You are a lap behind, dude, as are the good people of Fort Wayne attempting to join the smart Khardashian crowd of thinkers


I have no idea what you are trying to say. I reported an incident, just as Ann reported her observation from Perryville.

I have not the slightest idea about anything having to do with the name Khardashian, but since I think that they suck up cash from the "reality show" enthusiasts like you, they cannot ever affect my conservative thinking or my interests.

Achilles said...

Blogger gadfly said...

"Don't know why the Royal "We" was included in this comment, since you have no idea what motivated others to vote for the Mango Moron."

Leftists always know what drives their enemies decisions better than they do.

You made Mark's point for him by the way.

ihasch said...

Somehow I don't think she got more real votes. California is such an outlier that a credible media would investigate how HRC so thoroughly outperformed Obama there but not anywhere else. Maybe the voting integrity commission will get to the bottom of it, but so far all you hear is false indignation, that voter fraud is allegedly so mythical that people should not even investigate, and that anyone who does is a racist, etc.

YoungHegelian said...

I expected more of Kinsley than this, but I'm not surprised.

On my FB feed, I have quite a few lefty to liberal friends. I went to college & grad school with most of them. They are, as a group, bright to brilliant.

And not a single one of them has a clue as to "Why Trump?". Not a one. Mostly, it's all invective against Trump & the Trumpies. They see it as a triumph of evil that reared its ugly head in a moment when they were weak. Strangely enough, for a movement that for decades derided the Right as being a bunch of Christianist Culture Warriors, their critiques are all moral. Even when their arguments are economic, they're moral economic arguments.

As far as I can see, it's Kulturkampf. 24x7x365.

gadfly said...

Michael K said...
"you have no idea what motivated others to vote for the Mango Moron."

Have you gotten off your meds again ?

Show me on the electoral map where the bad orange man touched you.


Please note that my comment was addressed to Mark, not Michael - so perhaps you should count the unused pills in you medicine cabinet.

And the electorial map is your subject not mine. If you are incapable of observing the bad things happening with an overwrought president, I can only suspect that like Trump, you believe that you never make a mistake. You must be the most talented man to have ever lived except for Donald Trump and Abraham Lincoln.

Michael K said...

""You must be the most talented man to have ever lived "

No, but you sound pretty defensive,

Why the nasty "Mango Man" slur ? Run out of meds ? Poor baby,

Brookzene said...

Is he wrong?

You tell me.

Results by state

Kansas City said...

I thought the joke was fine and probably intended to be a little self deprecating. Kinsley is among the most honest liberals in the press. The column was very strange. The first five paragraphs were an excellent assessment and admission of media bias (both "hiding" in the past) and now he admits it is open and obvious - naming names Post, Times and CNN plus "other establishment media."

Then, Kinsley wandered down the same path, with silliness about Russian collusion and about Hiss and the Rosenbergs. But copied below is the first five paragraphs:

"Yes, it’s true that Hillary Clinton got more votes, but he got the votes of more than 62 million people — and I am pretty sure I don’t know any of them. You can make a rude joke about Donald Trump in places like Washington and the Upper West Side of Manhattan, and be confident that nothing you say will give offense.

It would be nice, I have long thought, to have an openly opinionated press as Britain does, with papers such as The Guardian in London. Instead of hiding their biases, writers and correspondents could say what they think, and readers could discount accordingly.

Well, since Mr. Trump became a serious possibility for president, we have had that world I longed for, and I’m not so sure I want it.

The New York Times, The Washington Post, CNN and other establishment outlets have been brazenly, laughably hostile to Mr. Trump, in their news pages as well as their opinion sections. Maybe this hostility is justified. In fact, I think it probably is.

But that doesn’t justify reaching out to twist stories or looking for the anti-Trump angle. Nor does it justify the open hoping — if not assuming — that something will come along to rid us of this turbulent hotelier. Impeachment is supposed to be an occasional tragic necessity, not just another tool for replacing the results of an election."

Michael said...

gadfly
At least you can keep your doctor and at least Gitmo is closed. That and our current POTUS is not getting blow jobs in the oval office from an employee, an intern at that. Not sure blow jobs were the only thing, but they are the thing we know about. I assume he, WJC, grabbed the intern's pussy. Probably. Wouldn't you think? I believe there are a few people whose names we actually know that accuse that particular President of pussy grabbing and more.

Left Bank of the Charles said...

I only see one footlight, for the U.S. Flag. The Trump flag is not illuminated. Fitting.

Mark said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Mark said...

And not a single one of them has a clue as to "Why Trump?"

And when you tell them, they still play the ignorant ass while still trying to impose their narrative upon it.

Mark said...

You tell me.

Results by state


I did tell you. And if you bothered to look at that link, you would see that Wikipedia told you too.

That's what I mean, YH. Even when you tell them, they keep on parading their invincible ignorance.

Mark said...

So you refused to believe your eyes and ears and choose to believe that Trump, the woman-chaser, was incapable of saying and doing what he said he did?

So you too want to play this game of distorting what I said, that is, lying. I did not do that. I did not say that.

As for what I believed and did not believe -- I did not believe for one second that the left, the media, and everyone pushing that story were truly in the least bit offended by the actual content of the alleged statements or of Trump's behavior. You and your pals protested too much. And everyone saw through you. The left has done -- and on a daily basis still does do -- far worse, far more offensive and anti-woman activity. Your fainting couch trick did not work.

tcrosse said...

I only see one footlight, for the U.S. Flag. The Trump flag is not illuminated.

It's good flag-etiquette to illuminate the US flag if it is flown at night. Not so much the Trump flag or the Rainbow flag. Fitting.

HT said...

What a bizarre statement - he doesn't know any Trump voters? That's really hard to believe.

Kansas City said...

I really think it is a joke/play on the famous line by the lady who said she did not know anyone who voted for Nixon.

sakredkow said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Merny11 said...

Sakredkow, it must feel soothing for us? LOL WHATEVER! Soothing yourself with claims of Hilary's popular vote win is more like it - and by the way, she still isn't nor will be POTUS

Dude1394 said...

Nice flag there. Trump is guarding the back of the USA.

Swede said...

So, it's agreed then.

When California secedes, Hillary can become their Empress.

All of her loyal subjects from the deplorable 49 other states mass migrate.

Everybody wins.

Clyde said...

Having seen the pictures yesterday from Perrysville, I was curious about the town's history and demographics. It had the look of a place that prosperity has passed by. Perhaps that was just that particular street, I thought. Here is what Wikipedia had to say about the town's history:

Perrysville was platted and surveyed in 1825 by James Blair on a bluff on the west side of the Wabash River. The town is named for Commodore Oliver Hazard Perry, the hero of the Battle of Lake Erie.[7] It became a local center for shipping products to New Orleans on flatboats via the Wabash, Ohio, and Mississippi Rivers, and it was also able to receive heavy equipment and manufactured items on steamboats. Prior to the advent of the railroad in the second half of the nineteenth century, the town's location on the river made for a thriving community; it is reputed to have been the largest town between Chicago and Terre Haute at the height of its success. The arrival of the Wabash and Erie Canal enhanced its importance even further; a sidecut with locks allowed boats to be towed across the river to the town. Various roads intersected here, including a plank toll road from Danville, Illinois to the west, and stagecoach traffic became frequent. However, when the railroads did arrive, and failed to pass through the town, it spelled the eventual end of the vital river traffic, and of the importance of the town of Perrysville.[8]

From the 2010 census, we learn that the town had a population of 456, and was 98.2% white. The 2016 population estimate was 434, which would be the lowest since the 1930 census. The town's population peak was 742 in 1850.

The other thing I wondered is how the people who live in Perrysville make their living. Most cities and towns have some sort of business that drives the economy. Whether it's a factory or a mine, a college or a seat of government, or just general tourism, every town has it's raison d'etre. I'm not sure what Perrysville's would be these days.

Guildofcannonballs said...

"It's pretty stupid to vote for someone you hadn't previously intended to vote for simply because he pisses off people you dislike."

Keep telling them how stupid they are for all the reasons you can imagine/conjur.

Because you are smart and have a duty to let the stupid know they are such.

Don't delay, call everybody stupid and dumb today!

wildswan said...

There aren't good books around explaining or discussing Trump, TDS, Trump and the Media and so on. For this reason I like to watch the 2016 election night coverage, especially ABC. It's like a big improbable beach book. It's all there: the arrogance of the media in assembling a large group of reporters only one of whom supported Trump; the blindness at the beginning of the evening as to what was coming; the total bewilderment as it becomes clear that Trump is winning "But how could we ALL be wrong?" "How could ALL the polls be wrong?" "But, but Hillary did everything right - she had a great convention, she won all three debates, she had a perfect ground game, she outspent Trump 2 to 1, a majority said she had the temperament to be President, what, what, what HAPPENED?" Then at first the reporters try to answer the question: what happened? That part is very interesting. But what is more interesting is that after awhile they drop the question and begin denouncing Trump and his supporters in the way they have been doing since the election. Then there is the episode where the Clinton camp (which has persuaded the media not to call the election) tries at 1:30 AM to send everyone including Trump home till the next day and Trump responds by setting out for his victory party which causes Clinton to concede. This catches the networks unprepared. Trump gives his acceptance speech before the major networks can change their totals and show him winning 270 electoral votes which makes them look like idiots(there will many similar episodes in days to come.) A lot that goes on that night which has never been explained and a lot goes on which predicts all that has happened since then with respect to the media and Trump.

For instance, the media point out that Trump never polled more than 40% throughout the election cycle - so how could they have predicted he would win. And, Trump is polling 40% right now!!!! Trump's campaign was "chaotic". Trump's Presidency is "chaotic." The Democrat was a sure winner in 2016 campaigning solely on opposition to Trump. And the Democrats are sure winners in 2018 campaigning solely on opposition to Trump.

Kansas City said...

You did not even mention Martha Raddatz crying. Biggest tell of extreme bias ever. Her friends in media just ignore it. The worst part was that she became teary when reading a partisan quote from Tim Kaine.