July 18, 2017

"We're not going to own it. I'm not going to own it. I can tell you the Republicans are not going to own it."

"We'll let Obamacare fail and then the Democrats are going to come to us and they're going to say to us, how do we fix it, how do we fix it, or how do we come up with a new plan?"

347 comments:

1 – 200 of 347   Newer›   Newest»
Big Mike said...

He's assuming Democrats care more about fixing things than about regaining power.

wild chicken said...

Montana expanded Medicaid only two years ago. Now the providers say they can't do without it.
What did they do before?

Entitlements take root fast.

Chuck said...

"He was playing with a firetruck and trying on a cowboy hat as the bill was collapsing and he had no clue," a top Republican told CNN's Jeff Zeleny on Tuesday, mocking the "Made In America" week at the White House.

You all would like to know who that was. I would like to know who that was. And buy her, or him, a drink.

It isn't just Trump himself. Sean Hannity is going to go apeshit on supposed do-nothing Republicans in Congress. When "Hannity" hasn't spent two minutes on the healthcare debate in all of 2017.

Spiros Pappas said...

Mr. Trump is delusional: the Republican health care plan is garbage. I can understand getting rid of Medicaid and replacing it with universal catastrophic coverage. There is individual responsibility and there is care for those in dire need. But this Republican plan is about tax cuts for people with too much money and trash healthcare for everybody else. It's pretty sad and pathetic.

Michael K said...

" I would like to know who that was. And buy her, or him, a drink."

Yes, buy it before the 2018 election cleans out the GOPe.

Chuck, you really are a troll.

The comment by a "top Republican" tells us how sick the GOPe is.

They got that president who will sign their bills. The old saying applies.

"Money talks. Bullshit walks." In his case actually doing something.

Chuck said...

It'll actually be interesting, if Team Trump gets on the phone with Hannity and tells Monkey-Butler Sean that the preferred message is, "Republicans don't own this." Because Hannity is r-e-a-l-l-y going to want to blame that grand old party (of which he is a proud non-member).

Michael K said...

"But this Republican plan is about tax cuts for people with too much money "

I think we just found another leftist troll.

How's the pay? Do you DNC talking points come by email or iPhone text?

Thorley Winston said...

How's the pay? Do you DNC talking points come by email or iPhone text?

And how quickly do you have to respond to the texts as proof of your loyalty?


Dave from Minnesota said...

Here's the deal. The Republicans can come up with a great replacement, but the Democrats will find "victims" and hammer that against ever Republican in the nation. Even if it is fake. Remember Romney and the cancer lady in Montana.

David said...

He's the President. He's supposed to lead in solving problems. Leading from behind is not why he was elected.

Achilles said...

Vichy republicans have no idea the hell that awaits them.

It is clear that traitors like Chuck and murkowski and capito were counting on Hillary winning so they would not have to do what they said they would do.

We know where the responsibility lies. They voted for repeal several times knowing obama would veto. They are just proving they have no intention of doing what republican voters want and are merely a false flag operation.

Mark said...

Michael K, once again proves who the real troll is and reminding us how sore losers act.

The true believers finally are catching onto the bait and switch they voted for.

Dave from Minnesota said...

Montana expanded Medicaid only two years ago. Now the providers say they can't do without it.
What did they do before?
Entitlements take root fast.


Yup. Once you start a freebie or some sort of gov't program, its forever.

I thought of that with the open borders crowd. We hadn't had open borders for the first 230 or so years of our country. Now anyone who proposes even a little border enforcement is called Hitler.

Chuck said...

Michael K said...
"But this Republican plan is about tax cuts for people with too much money "

We know that in the end, that wasn't true, and Michael K is right.

What this was about, was the incomprehensibly hard problem of rolling back an American federal entitlement program. A problem made all the harder by Donald Trump promising everything to everybody. The biggest tax cut anybody has ever seen; the best care; the lowest deductibles and co-pays and co-insurance; and much, much lower premiums. When he didn't even understand the basic, elementary issues.

Hagar said...

That was funnny. Reading David Gergen's pronouncements caused my computer to re-boot.

Howevewr, if Trump can find a way for him and the GOPe to avoid "owning" this debacle, he will forever be known as the greatest magician ever to reside in the White House.

David Baker said...

And remember when Obama's Iran nuclear deal was the worst deal ever?

Well, don't look now, because it's not only still in full effect, the Trump administration is even praising Iran's compliance. Which means Trump's little hands are tied, because after all, what can he do? Besides, Hawaii would never go along with any changes, must less repeal.

Hey, tired of all the "winning" yet?

Scott said...

CNN loves to blur the line between reporting the news and spinning opinions, don't they?

Obamacare isn't failing. Obamacare has failed.* In some states you can't even buy the overpriced coverage that the law requires you to buy, even if you have the money.

The Democrats lack vision. The Republicans lack courage. Fuck them all.

-----
* He's not pinin'! He's passed on! This parrot is no more! He has ceased to be! He's expired and gone to meet his maker! He's a stiff! Bereft of life, he rests in peace! If you hadn't nailed him to the perch he'd be pushing up the daisies! His metabolic processes are now history! He's off the twig! He's kicked the bucket, he's shuffled off his mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleedin' choir invisibile!!
THIS IS AN EX-PARROT!!

Chuck said...

Achilles, what special hell awaits Rand Paul, Mike Lee and Ted Cruz?

Drago said...

Achilles: "We know where the responsibility lies. They voted for repeal several times knowing obama would veto. They are just proving they have no intention of doing what republican voters want and are merely a false flag operation."

Yep.

It couldn't be clearer.

7 Republican votes to repeal when obama was in the White House.

Trump will sign anything they send him.

And they can't/won't get it done.

Bluff called with Trumps election. Transparency as to real intentions achieved.

Chucks GOPe-ers are now on record as favoring obamacare.

Hmmm, what a coincidence. In precisely the same way that every Chuck talking point matches the lefts.

Unknown said...

Hahahahahahah, playing with a fire truck while wearing his cowboy hat. After all, no one knew how complicated health care really was, right? We Democrats are laughing our asses off at the daily failings and scandals of your precious Trump.

David Baker said...

Let's face it; Trump has accomplished exactly diddlysquat.

Spiros Pappas said...

No way I'm a leftist troll. Universal catastrophic coverage, like Obamacare itself, was basically a Republican idea for decades: http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2017/03/16/catastrophic-coverage-obamacare-health-insurance-trump-offer/

gspencer said...

Give the guy credit. He's making lemonade out of the RINO lemons he's been handed.

MayBee said...

Democrats were so proud of creating the ACA exchanges to "help" people, and now feel free to absolutely ignore the problems they created for those same people.

I'm one of them, and I get so frustrated thinking about all of it. And the news channels don't help. They just want to talk about the politics of this, and don't care about what's going on out here.

eric said...

I just want to work to primary ever last one of these traitors.

I seriously hope Cruz gets in with Trump and they start shutting down the government. I hope Trump means what he says here.

Obamacare has to go.

I'm tired of being stabbed in the back by the GOPe. They are always telling me to vote them in to office so they can change things, then we vote them in and they tuck tail like cowards and run.

I couldnt care less about their election. Our founders faced death for their treason and these idiots run scared over their incumbency? Screw them.

Time for some hard core primary action.

Drago said...

Pappas: "Universal catastrophic coverage, like Obamacare itself, was basically a Republican idea for decades: http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2017/03/16/catastrophic-coverage-obamacare-health-insurance-trump-offer/"

Your desire to conflate catastrophic coverage with obamacare gives the game away.

Chuck said...

Just up above, I was being too modest about the extent of Trump's health care promises.
Add: universal coverage for everybody; pre-existing condition coverage; and zero cuts to Medicare and Medicaid.

traditionalguy said...

Senate races are given billions + dollars of donor's money for a reason. It is to own Senators that will keep populist American Presidents from passing legislation that favors the American middle class over favoring the world flow of Mega Wealth. The ruling class despises America's popular control of elections. And their Sneaky Snake Senators will shut down the government before they allow Trump's bills to succeed.





Unknown said...

"Hey, tired of all the "winning" yet?"

LOL! Keep on "winning" Trumpists. The more you "win", the happier we are.

Hagar said...

David Gergen and LLR Chuck make a pair to draw to!

Unknown said...

"Let's face it; Trump has accomplished exactly didlysquat."

Just as we predicted.

Drago said...

Gergen and LLR Chuck are the housebroken republicans that the dems like to have around.

Drago said...

Unknown: "Just as we predicted"

Then why all the rioting and destruction?

LOL

lgv said...

I see no problem with continuing the law of the land, Affordable Care Act. Each year will continue the trend of fewer offerings and higher prices. More people will choose to be uninsured. Let's see a proposal from Dems for increased subsidies and the tax hikes that will pay for them if they want to keep Obamacare. If they don't want to keep Obamacare, let them propose their own replacement, then let the GAO compare it to any Republican plan.

The ACA enacted a lot of new taxes and employer burdens. It wasn't enough. It's not even close. It required belief in "Bending the Cost Curve", part of the biggest con job of the Obama administration.

I'm selling everything in about 3 years, so I think we need a 5 year plan to start single payer. Just like social security, which has flipped to a deficit without any response. I think we need to raise FICA rates to solve the problem, again starting in about 5 years.

Achilles said...

Blogger Chuck said...
"Achilles, what special hell awaits Rand Paul, Mike Lee and Ted Cruz?"

They want the same things Republican voters want.

It is the Life Long Republicans who torpedoed this. We don't want you in the party anymore because all you do is betray us when it comes time to vote.

Cruz, Lee and Kid Rock are the future of the Republican Party. Hillary voters like McCain and snowe and murkowski and you are the past.

Get the fuck out and don't let the door hit your traitorous ass on the way.

Drago said...

So, to sum up: Trump has simultaneously done nothing AND created a fascist state where no one is free.

Choose one.

LOL

WisRich said...

You're not going to like the Dem's fix Donny: Its single payer.

Unknown said...

"Get the fuck out and don't let the door hit your traitorous ass on the way."

Says the guy whose head is up the Traitor in Chief's ass.

Clayton Hennesey said...

LOL! Keep on "winning" Trumpists. The more you "win", the happier we are.

No doubt. After all, as with racial identity politics, the only losers in this situation are the hapless useful tools marooned in the individual market.

Just as with all the blacks slaughtered by other blacks in gun-controlled Chicago, this legislative loss won't affect either me or Nancy Pelosi or John McCain in the slightest.

Michael K said...

if Trump can find a way for him and the GOPe to avoid "owning" this debacle, he will forever be known as the greatest magician ever to reside in the White House.

I'm afraid that's true. I have no time for lefties like Mark who pretend that fact free comments are useful.

MountainMan said...

“It is much more important to kill bad bills than to pass good ones.” - Calvin Coolidge

Michael K said...

""Let's face it; Trump has accomplished exactly didlysquat."

Just as we predicted."

Lefties did not take Civics in school.

Who writes legislation, quick without Google.?

Chuck said...

Achilles said...
...
Cruz, Lee and Kid Rock are the future of the Republican Party. Hillary voters like McCain and snowe and murkowski and you are the past.

Get the fuck out and don't let the door hit your traitorous ass on the way.

Olympia Snowe retired from the Senate before the 2012 election.

I don't think that Susan Collins, Shelly Moore Capito, Lisa Murkowski, Rob Portman, Dean Heller or Jerry Moran aspire to be in the business of losing elections.

dreams said...

The liberal media and the crooked Democrats are already spinning big time that it's the Republicans who will own the failed healthcare system but I predict that they'll get Trumped by Twitter. The death of the liberal media by a thousand tweets or at least rendered insignificant.

Chuck said...

Michael K said...
...

Who writes legislation, quick without Google.?

Then why call it "Obamacare"? If he didn't write it?

Clayton Hennesey said...

It is clear that traitors like Chuck and murkowski and capito were counting on Hillary winning so they would not have to do what they said they would do.

Matthew Continetti nails Pat Toomey to his cabin wall and reads his entrails:

http://freebeacon.com/columns/one-sentence-explains-washington-dysfunction/

Unknown said...

They've owned it since the day Trump bragged how he was going to get Obama care repealed and replaced. Now he wants to run away from it like the coward he is. Too late, way too late. Republicans own it and they own Trump too.

PackerBronco said...

Fundamental rule of liberalism: Government grows in response to failure

Take a government program that's ineffective, poorly managed and makes the problems that it was supposed to solve even worse, and the liberal response will be to spend more money on the program, provide it with a larger mandate and give the people who are incompetently running it even more power than before.

Michael K said...

I have for several years suggested the way to deal with Obamacare is to just make it optional. If people want Obamacare and the freebies, which is mostly Medicaid, let them, plus of course the premiums. But, of course, the only one who want Obamacare are the ones who are not paying those premiums.

Then let everyone else buy insurance in a free marketplace. Th state line thing may be a federal problem. I can't keep my California based car insurance in Arizona and had to buy from a new company.

Then, the next step is to block grant Medicaid to the states. If California wants to pay for aromatherapy on their dime, let them.

The 90% fed paid expanded Medicaid goes away.

You do it in pieces and the lefties are so stupid about economics they will scream about anything and not see how this is dismantling it.

readering said...

Not quite six months in office.

Earnest Prole said...

Distinctions not cost-effective. After the House vote the average low-information voter (but I repeat myself) smells the stench of Obamacare on Republicans and vice-versa.

Michael K said...

"Then why call it "Obamacare"? If he didn't write it?"

You know the answer, chuck. You just want to join the lefties in snark.

It was his "Signature Achievement," remember ?

dreams said...

The liberal media will be tell us over and over that the polls are showing that Trump and the Republicans are being blamed but remember the polls have become irrelevant, people give politically correct answers to pollsters.

Clayton Hennesey said...

What this was about, was the incomprehensibly hard problem of rolling back an American federal entitlement program. A problem made all the harder by Donald Trump promising everything to everybody. The biggest tax cut anybody has ever seen; the best care; the lowest deductibles and co-pays and co-insurance; and much, much lower premiums. When he didn't even understand the basic, elementary issues.

But this failure was the congressional Republican's, not the President's.

The Democrats have a highly united team aggressively pushing progressive identity politics and socialism. The Republicans are now basically on government welfare, showing up to collect their checks, then adjourning for vacation.

Nothing to show in the way of a sophisticated, well-thought-out replacement for Obamacare after seven years in the wilderness is simply unconscionable and marks them as nothing more than shiftless parasites upon the State.

Drago said...

"lifelong republican" Chuck: "I don't think that Susan Collins, Shelly Moore Capito, Lisa Murkowski, Rob Portman, Dean Heller or Jerry Moran aspire to be in the business of losing elections"

LOL

Sure they are, as you will see in 2018 if the republicans you love fail to deliver any changes to healthcare, tax cuts and improvements in the budget.

The GOPe has been totally exposed as the hacks they are. They voted time and again to repeal when nothing was at stake and capitulated, as the GOPe always does, as soon as the real votes that matter approached.

Completely exposed and now, what's the campaign message? We need 60 votes in the Senate before we can change anything!!

Of course, no one is going to believe that, particularly the Trump dems who voted for obama twice but went over to Trump to see what would happen.

Those voters don't blame Trump because they have eyes and ears and can see clearly who is doing what.

Again, clarity is a very good thing.

Drago said...

Unknown: " Too late, way too late. Republicans own it and they own Trump too."

LOL

obamacare is such a wonderful thing that the dems can't wait to hand it off!

Gee, I wonder if that exposes some underlying truth that is not being articulated by Unknown.......

Joe said...

Trump has been all over the place on this. He talks of repeal, but has indicated he'll sign anything Congress sends to him and hasn't offered up a concrete proposal.

David Baker said...

Really, after all the rhetoric, the complete and utter catastrophe of terrible deal-making, why are we still honoring Obama's Iran nuclear agreement?

I mean, we all knew that repeal-Obamacare was a non-starter, but we never suspected Trump would go along with arming Iran with nukes. Even praising Iran for compliance, in a game they can't lose.

I voted for Trump, but now I'd be hard pressed give him the time of day.

Rick said...

It's interesting in both this case and the immigration case Trump has eventually landed on the best solution, but only after much flailing about by everyone. In this case waiting until Dems become responsible is the only possible action [long wait]. And in the case of immigration he decided to focus on bringing in productive people who can more easily assimilate and contribute.

Achilles said...

Blogger Unknown said...
"They've owned it since the day Trump bragged how he was going to get Obama care repealed and replaced. Now he wants to run away from it like the coward he is. Too late, way too late. Republicans own it and they own Trump too."

It will always be called Obamacare.

You wish that it was democrats vs. republicans. It hasn't been for a long time. It is the country vs. DC. Republican voters are just as mad at the Vichy traitors in their own party as they are at democrats.

Any republican that runs against D.C., the democrats and the GOPe will be just fine in 2018.

Chuck said...

Drago said...
"lifelong republican" Chuck: "I don't think that Susan Collins, Shelly Moore Capito, Lisa Murkowski, Rob Portman, Dean Heller or Jerry Moran aspire to be in the business of losing elections"
LOL
Sure they are, as you will see in 2018 if the republicans you love fail to deliver any changes to healthcare, tax cuts and improvements in the budget.

I thought you were the guy who was telling me that 2018 would, on the strength of Trump successes, win a 7 or 8 seat majority in 2018 and get to 60+ in 2020. Or am I thinking of another one of my detractors?

Drago said...

David Baker: "I voted for Trump, but now I'd be hard pressed give him the time of day."

Well, since your choice is a binary one, there is no point in talking about one side in abstract.

Who cares if you'd be hard pressed to give him the time of day? Your choice was Trump or Hillary. In 2020 it will be Trump vs someone else on the far left that Chuck will provide rhetorical cover for.

You'll have to make another choice then. Who ya gonna vote for? Harris?

Chuck said...

...GOP majorities, that is.

Cacimbo Cacimbo said...

Republicans control the Presidency, House and Senate - they own this now.

What a disaster. I am disgusted. Establishment Republicans claim McConnell is a brilliant tactician. I see zero evidence of that. McConnell and Ryan need to get the boot.

dreams said...

Obamacare has already accomplished much of what it was intended to do via expanded medicaid to people who are not really poor, can't take back entitlements.

Drago said...

The easily confused "lifelong republican" Chuck: "I thought you were the guy who was telling me that 2018 would, on the strength of Trump successes, win a 7 or 8 seat majority in 2018 and get to 60+ in 2020. Or am I thinking of another one of my detractors?"

You don't have detractors. Just folks who are unable to avoid your lunacy without commenting here and there.

The election map is what it is and is favorable, on paper, for the republicans in 2018. I have never spoken about 2020 as it is too far out so, yes, you are confused. Again.

However, the best way for the GOPe to throw it all away is to send the clear signal to conservatives and the Trump voters that it doesn't matter which party controls the House and Senate because there are just enough Chuck-type GOPers who are happy to hand it all back to the dems.

Chuck said...

... In 2020 it will be Trump vs someone else on the far left that Chuck will provide rhetorical cover for.

If it is Senator Harris, I will vote for Trump without hesitation.

But I hope very much that my determined protest vote against a Democrat won't require a vote for Trump. We'll have to wait out the 2020 GOP primary.

Achilles said...

"I voted for Trump, but now I'd be hard pressed give him the time of day."

Wah. The cronies in DC aren't giving up the trillions in graft easy. Trump hasn't fixed everything in six months.

Christ how tedious and boring.

Unknown said...

"Really, after all the rhetoric, the complete and utter catastrophe of terrible deal-making, why are we still honoring Obama's Iran nuclear agreement?"

Because he doesn't want to take the responsibility for the blowback from the rest of the signatories to the Treaty. He's a coward.

Drago said...

"lifelong republican" Chuck: "If it is Senator Harris, I will vote for Trump without hesitation."

Yes, of course you will.

Of course.

Bill, Republic of Texas said...

"Let's face it; Trump has accomplished exactly didlysquat."

So? At least things aren't worse. If Clinton had won we'd be talking amnesty and another leftist on the USSC.

Unknown said...

"Really, after all the rhetoric, the complete and utter catastrophe of terrible deal-making, why are we still honoring Obama's Iran nuclear agreement?"

Trump also knows that his core base of sycophants will never hold him responsible for any failings, even if he shot someone on 5th Ave.

Achilles said...

"I thought you were the guy who was telling me that 2018 would, on the strength of Trump successes, win a 7 or 8 seat majority in 2018 and get to 60+ in 2020. Or am I thinking of another one of my detractors?"

That would be me.

Republicans are going to be sitting around 60 seats in the senate for a generation.

There will just be fewer Vichy republicans as we primary your wing of the party out and replace them with people who listen to republican voters. Kid Rock is going to be an awesome senator.

Drago said...

Unknown: "Because he doesn't want to take the responsibility for the blowback from the rest of the signatories to the Treaty. He's a coward."

As any sentient being who has looked at the deal knows, ALL the benefits flowed to Iran before Trump came into office.

Literally every single thing Iran wanted they got before Trump took the oath.

This was important as the left has determined they very much want Iran to quickly develop their nuclear weapons and the deal was the best way to give it to them.

After Trump was inaugurated, all the supposedly "tough" (fake) oversight was to be enacted to ensure compliance. Since only compliance monitoring remains there is no reason for even the most ardent opponent of this insane agreement to pull out.

In fact, pulling out is exactly what the Iranians want as they have already received all the goodies and our pulling out would remove even the fig leaf of cover for the Iranians to play along with the controls.

Left Bank of the Charles said...

So long as "let Obamacare fail" remains Trump code for "leave Obamacare in place in blue states that have their shit together", I guess I can't complain. The states that took the Roberts option seem to be ones in trouble.

dreams said...

"Trump has been all over the place on this. He talks of repeal, but has indicated he'll sign anything Congress sends to him and hasn't offered up a concrete proposal."

That seems to be his style, thankfully, he ultimately gets to the right answer or solution. Trump is pragmatic not an ideologue.

Unknown said...

"Christ how tedious and boring."

Not more tedious and boring than the bleatings of his star sycophant.

Gusty Winds said...

I'm back to liking the Trump primary candidate who accurately called out the GOP for being too afraid to lead, or get anything done. Next is the Paul Ryan promise but never deliver tax reform.

Rand Paul and his "all or nothing" demands make him a supporter of bad legislation he pretends to oppose. This way you can stand on your principles without ever having to put them to the test.

Kid Rock for Senate

Chuck said...

Drago; it was not you who confidently predicted 60 Republican Senate seats in 2020.

It was "Achilles":

http://althouse.blogspot.com/2017/07/but-it-is-unlikely-that-kennedy-will.html?showComment=1499126246810#c5535421709561507062

Achilles said...

Blogger Unknown said...

"Trump also knows that his core base of sycophants will never hold him responsible for any failings, even if he shot someone on 5th Ave."

That core base of sycophants is bigger than it was on Election Day when over 60 million people voted for him.

And Trump won't have to shoot anyone on 5th.

Drago said...

Yes Chuck. I already knew that.

Unlike some, I remember what I write.

But then again, I'm not attempting to portray myself as something I'm not, so it's easier to remember.

Drago said...

Achilles: "And Trump won't have to shoot anyone on 5th."

Lets face it, there's no time for that what with all the democrat terrorists shooting up baseball fields with, apparently, full approval from the left.

I sincerely hope that the right doesn't get the idea that rioting and burning and murdering your opponents is okay as the left clearly believes.

Those on the right tend to be more competent and "accurate" in their endeavors and the results would be much more......impactful.

Unknown said...

"That core base of sycophants is bigger than it was on Election Day when over 60 million people voted for him."

Delusional. 36% approval rating and on it's way further down. It's only the first six months.

Chuck said...

Right, Drago. So since Achilles has assured us that we Republicans will have 60 seats by 2020, I am not going to lose any sleep. We'll be fine. No worries.

Drago said...

Chuck: "Right, Drago. So since Achilles has assured us that we Republicans will have 60 seats by 2020, I am not going to lose any sleep. We'll be fine. No worries"

Wrong Chuck.

You are correct that you and I and others will "be fine. No worries."

But what about all those millions of voters who delivered these majorities and the Presidency to the republicans with a real sense of hope that something dramatic would change?

What about them Chuck?

Oh, that's right. Those are the deplorables that you and dems hate so much.

Drago said...

Unknown: "Delusional. 36% approval rating and on it's way further down. It's only the first six months."

Hmmmm, more polls. And the folks who don't believe these latest "polls" are the delusional ones!

Hows President Hillary doing these days?

Carry on!

Drago said...

How did Trump ever get 36% approval with only a 23% republican sample?

Amazing.

Bodes well.

Jim at said...

"But this Republican plan is about tax cuts for people with too much money and trash healthcare for everybody else. It's pretty sad and pathetic."

No. What's sad and pathetic are POS leftists like you repeating this blatant lie.

Achilles said...

Blogger Chuck said...
"Right, Drago. So since Achilles has assured us that we Republicans will have 60 seats by 2020, I am not going to lose any sleep. We'll be fine. No worries."

We will be fine. The people who are going to lose here are the traitors who just made it plain as day they don't give a shit what their voters want.

Obamacare is going to fail. DC democrats and republicans are going to be blamed a properly by the voters. Capito and Murkowski will be primaried. We are also going to pay close attention to the other Vichy traitors.

You can go find another group of people to sell out and betray.

But yes we will be taking the country back.

Etienne said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Unknown said...

"Hows President Hillary doing these days?"

No one cares about Hillary. Trump is President. Trump gets to own all his failures and scandals and so do you people who voted for him. We told you so.

Robert Cook said...

"The Republicans can come up with a great replacement...."

If they can, why didn't they? They've had years to craft a replacement to be implemented at the inevitable time that a Republican took the White House and the Republicans controlled Congress. They can't come up with a great or even adequate replacement because they really don't give a shit about the problem or about the American people. Plus, as Obamneycare was a conservative plan in the first place, everything they might have thought of to put into a plan was mostly already in Obamneycare.

Chuck said...

Bring it on, Achilles.

The Senate bill was polling at about 20% popularity. If it had passed, it would have become even more unpopular.

My only point in all of this is that it is hard, to reform health care. Lots of bad, difficult, hurtful choices. Things that Trump doesn't even understand.

#NoClue
#Clueless

tcrosse said...

No one cares about Hillary. Trump is President. Trump gets to own all his failures and scandals and so do you people who voted for him. We told you so.

So what have you got, besides Trump Hatred ? Nothing. You're just fucking with us.

mezzrow said...

Health care? What do the Russians have to do with that?

Can they impeach Trump if Obamacare fails completely? Who will try first?

Unknown said...

"We will be fine. The people who are going to lose here are the traitors who just made it plain as day they don't give a shit what their voters want."

No you won't. We are the true patriots, not the people who still support the Traitor in Chief. BTW, the voters of America voted for someone else by 3 million..

Jim at said...

"Not quite six months in office."

And Hillary Clinton is STILL not President.

No matter what happens - good, bad or indifferent - that's good enough for me.

Suck on it.

Unknown said...

"They can't come up with a great or even adequate replacement because they really don't give a shit about the problem or about the American people."

Exceedingly clear.

Unknown said...

"And Hillary Clinton is STILL not President."

No one cares.

mezzrow said...

Trump gets to own all his failures and scandals and so do you people who voted for him.

We're just getting used to owning you, mate. Tbf, for a bot, you function pretty highly. You must be the Mark II or III version.

You just keep on doing what you do, now.

Robert Cook said...

"But what about all those millions of voters who delivered these majorities and the Presidency to the republicans with a real sense of hope that something dramatic would change?"

What about them? While it's true that majorities in states that counted for electoral votes voted for Trump, among voters overall, more voted for Hillary Clinton than for Trump. So your vision of "millions of voters who delivered majorities...with a real sense of hope" for what Trump would deliver does not constitute what the majority of Americans voted for or want.

(Plenty of people didn't vote at all and some voted for third party candidates because they didn't want either of the wretched choices offered up by the Republicans and the Democrats. Considering those folks, as well, it's a lie to claim--or a delusion to believe--that most Americans agree with or want what Trump is selling.)

Mark said...

"Mark" said...
Michael K, once again proves who the real troll is and reminding us how sore losers act.
The true believers finally are catching onto the bait and switch they voted for.
7/18/17, 3:18 PM


Just for the record -- there is another "Mark" who strolls in here every so often. Please don't confuse the two. He ain't me.

And also for the record -- you're OK Michael K.

Michael K said...

They can't come up with a great or even adequate replacement because they really don't give a shit about the problem or about the American people.

No, that's the Socialist talking. Look, I agree with you about Congress. They are creatures of who pays the bills for them.

Mark Twain said, "No man's life, liberty or property is safe while Congress is in session."

But that was 140 years ago and Congress had little influence on people's lives. They could joke about it.

The American people want to be left alone except for the poor and incompetent and the do-gooders, who if the truth were known, want to run things themselves.

I just spent a half hour on the phone with my middle daughter who is a lefty living in a rent controlled apartment in Santa Monica.

She is planning to buy 5 acres in Idaho to build a house that she will someday retire to,.

She was struck by how cheap it is to get building permits and how friendly everyone is and how she is noticing that California is very expensive because of government.

What a revelation !

eric said...

I don't think that Susan Collins, Shelly Moore Capito, Lisa Murkowski, Rob Portman, Dean Heller or Jerry Moran aspire to be in the business of losing elections.

Finally something Chuck wrote that I can agree with.

All they aspire to is power. Being elected. They don't care about doing the right thing. They are cowards.

They need to lose. We need to work to make sure they are defeated. Even if it means putting up with a Democrat seat holder for 6 years because our primary attempt fails.

jacksonjay said...

All I know is that the not a politician, swamp-drainin, cut through the red-tape, tell-it-like-it-is, get something done, deal maker didn't! I thought the GOPe's were gonna run scared. Apparently not. Are we cryin about the McConnell who gave us Gorsuch? That Mitch McConnell? You might even give ole Mitch some of the credit for getting the not a politician elected. Maybe this will work out?

Michael K said...

Mark, I suspected there was another Mark. You guys should wear different hats or something.

I think the Congress is making a big mistake to try to do this in one big package like another Continuing Resolution.

I posted above I think they should do it in stages.

buwaya said...

Compared with most of the world US federal taxes, even including FICA SS and Medicare, are extremely progressive. The US rich are already relatively heavily taxed vis-a-vis global norms for tax structures. Most of the developed world relies much more on regressive things like VATs.

Whats wrong with this is:

#1 volatility. Tax collections are very variable and unpredictable, as high income brackets are far more sensitive to transient economic conditions, and market whims, as so much of that is capital gains.

#2 distortion. I also believe a lot of US economic policy has been distorted over the last 30 years or so in order to maximize capital gains, to maximize revenues. This reasoning may be behind some of the trouble with property market bubbles, securitization and derivatives, and all sorts of asset inflation problems.

#3 income concealment. Rich people can more easily hide or shelter income (by a variety of means, including doing whatever is needed not to recognize income). This is a widespread art in Europe, given higher nominal tax rates, but its quite a thing in the US too.

#4 Corporate income tax rates are very high relative to Europe, distorting US corporate governance decisions vs the rest of the world. A reluctance to recognize income leading to, partly, leaving enormous and underutilized cash reserves and money unrepatriated from foreign subsidiaries, etc.

These are also all things about which there can be no productive or even dispassionate discussion.

BN said...

Screw Kid Rock for senator. I want him to replace Chief Justice Roberts. After all, it's not called RobertsCare for nothing.

And besides, I really like the sound of "Chief Kid Rock."

buwaya said...

"I posted above I think they should do it in stages."

#1 is they should relax requirements for employer insurance plans, reducing cost of employment. Thats a huge economic albatross they can fix, that will have no effect on Medicaid. Or, if it helps increase employment, labor force participation, it should reduce the utilization of Medicaid.

Khesanh 0802 said...

@Clayton Hennessy Good piece you referred to. To make it easier for others Here's a link to "one-sentence-explains-washington-dysfunction"

Tank said...

Trump doesn't own it, but a lot of Repub congressmen will.

Etienne said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Robert Cook said...

"She was struck by how cheap it is to get building permits and how friendly everyone is and how she is noticing that California is very expensive because of government.

"What a revelation?"


Perhaps the greater expense and regulation in California is determined by the greater number of people living in California than in Idaho and the greater availability of land in Idaho than in California.

Humperdink said...

"Let's face it; Trump has accomplished exactly didlysquat."

Wowee! I will take Justice Gorsuch, I will take immigration slowing from south of the border, I will take SCOTUS ruling Trump's favor restricting Middle East traveling into the US without complete vetting, I will take Trump telling NATO members to pony up, I will take Trump reversing Obummer's disastrous policies towards Israel, I will take Trump boosting our military.

More diddly squat please!!

Drago said...

Cookie: "hat about them? While it's true that majorities in states that counted for electoral votes voted for Trump, among voters overall, more voted for Hillary Clinton than for Trump. So your vision of "millions of voters who delivered majorities...with a real sense of hope" for what Trump would deliver does not constitute what the majority of Americans voted for or want."

Are you this obtuse in purpose?

I was quite clear about those majorities that gave the republicans control.

Hillary's 4 million vote win in CA is irrelevant to the point I was making.

Khesanh 0802 said...

@Devid Baker It wasn't praise for the Iran deal it was a required certification (90 day cycle demanded by Congress) given while the Administration's position on the deal is under review. From the WSJ "In announcing the decision to re-certify Iran’s compliance, Trump administration officials said Iran wasn’t adhering to the spirit of the deal and vowed that the administration would look to levy additional sanctions to address concerns about terrorism as well as other issues". At the same time: "The Trump administration on Tuesday levied additional sanctions on Iran, targeting its elite military unit and ballistic missile program." (WSJ)

Drago said...

Cookie: "Perhaps the greater expense and regulation in California is determined by the greater number of people living in California than in Idaho and the greater availability of land in Idaho than in California."

Lol

Yes, of course. Leftists desire to control every aspect of our existence is driven by population density, and not anything in their psyche!

Pull the other one comrade!

But I do thank you for the laugh.

Sam L. said...

Annnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnd, the left goes NUTS.

Drago said...

Unknown: "No one cares about Hillary."

That explains the non stop coverage f her every pronouncement and endless speculation regarding 2020!

It's almost as if Unknown expects everyone to be as oblivious as she.

Lol

Pay no attention to our constant fawning over and discussions of Hillary! We really don't care about her! Plus Chelsea!!!

Kevin said...

So the anti-Trumpers have been reenergized because the failing healthcare system is exactly like Obama, Pelosi, and Reid left it?

That seems to sum up this thread.

Robert Cook said...

"Yes, of course. Leftists desire to control every aspect of our existence is driven by population density, and not anything in their psyche!"

Well, with population density comes greater demand for land. With greater demand comes greater scarcity and greater prices. With greater population density also comes the need for more regulations, as the more people there are in an area, the more complicated becomes the management of the many, sundry, and conflicting wants and needs and beliefs in the population. It's easy to deal with one person for every 100 square miles, and harder to deal with 100 people for every 1 square mile, eh?

Drago said...

Cookie: "In fact, it is a minority of Americans who like, want, or agree with Trump."

In actual fact, it is an electoral majority of Americans who like, want, or agree with Trump.

I'm sorry if our system upsets you so.

Don't you have a Food For Venezuela Drive to organize?

Robert Cook said...

Your point is to try to have us believe a majority of Americans like, want, or agree with Trump.

In fact, it is a minority of Americans who like, want, or agree with Trump.

(Deleted and reposted to correct incorrect formatting.)

Drago said...

Cookie: "It's easy to deal with one person for every 100 square miles, and harder to deal with 100 people for every 1 square mile, eh?"

Is that why the leftists are so hot to trot for mass murder on a tens of millions scale?

Drago said...

So, to summarize, The Killing Fields was a reasoned response to potential future population over density.

Well played comrade! Problem solved!

Robert Cook said...

The system doesn't upset me so much, Drago, as it is what we have, but attempts to misrepresent the wishes of the real majority of the American public should be corrected. Those who voted for Trump were a minority of the American people.

Robert Cook said...

Drago, your two posts responding to the question of real estate are pretty sophomoric, even for you.

Drago said...

Robert Cook: "Your point is to try to have us believe a majority of Americans like, want, or agree with Trump."

English is your first language, yes?

That was not my point. But I can see that you want very badly for that to have been my point.

Drago said...

Robert Cook: "Drago, your two posts responding to the question of real estate are pretty sophomoric, even for you."

Most totalitarian leftists are disappointed in my responses.

I can live with that.

Drago said...

Cookie: "Those who voted for Trump were a minority of the American people."

Which has nothing to do with the point I was making about what the voters who delivered republican majorities and the Presidency are looking for.

Bay Area Guy said...

Even before Trump was elected, many of us who have been around the political block for a while, knew that Trump would let us down. He's a politician. And all politicians cave.

Don't believe me? Even the great Ronald Reagan caved on a huge Amnesty for illegal immigrants (you can look it up).

So, Yes, I am disappointed about the failure to repeal Obamacare, and, Yes, Trump bears some responsibility. Full stop.

But am I jumping the Trump ship? Two words - HELL NO.

I blame the Dems for the abomination that is Obamacare, and I blame Justice Roberts for saving it at the Supreme Court, and I blame the wishy-washy Republican Senators who are scared to repeal it.

But, I think most GOP Senators would vote to repeal it. You gotta take Collins, MUrkowski, and Capito to the woodshead, or, if necessary, primary them.

buwaya said...

"Perhaps the greater expense and regulation in California is determined by the greater number of people living in California than in Idaho and the greater availability of land in Idaho than in California."

The correct comparison actually is with Texas. California has traditionally been benchmarked against Texas, going back to the 1960's. There are a lot of RAND studies that did TX vs CA for everything under the sun.

Anyway, cost of living is much higher in CA. Cost of public services of every kind is much higher in CA. Public policy explains all of it, pretty much, including property/housing and energy prices of every kind.

Khesanh 0802 said...

There are still ways that the Trump administration can impact the ACA through administration (remember that a lot of the rules were made by HHS) Here's one list.

Clayton Hennesey said...

@Clayton Hennessy Good piece you referred to.

Thanks. I quit marking up my links because it seemed to spook people, like unwrapped Halloween candy or something.

Sebastian said...

"Those who voted for Trump were a minority of the American people." Hey, can I play? "Those who supported the ACA were a minority of the American people."

Anyway, while I expected the fiasco and am too cynical to be disappointed, I think statements to the effect that "the GOP has all the branches, so why don't they do something" are overstated. GOP dominance is only nominal: Collins and Lee and Paul were never going to agree, Trump is barely GOP and has no cred on the Hill (and vice versa), and the GOP is not into cornhusker specials to round up the troops.

Rick said...

Robert Cook said...
It's easy to deal with one person for every 100 square miles, and harder to deal with 100 people for every 1 square mile, eh?


And yet this is exactly the opposite of what public policy leftists claim to justify their spending and control preferences. If I were cynical I'd suspect left wingers raise whatever justifications support the debate of the moment completely without regard to whether the justifications are factual.

David Baker said...

"Wowee! I will take Justice Gorsuch, I will take immigration slowing from south of the border, I will take SCOTUS ruling Trump's favor restricting Middle East traveling into the US without complete vetting, I will take Trump telling NATO members to pony up, I will take Trump reversing Obummer's disastrous policies towards Israel, I will take Trump boosting our military."

Well, when you put it that way...

HoodlumDoodlum said...

You guys are so focused on Trump you aren't thinking straight.
The GOP had Yeats to ready a good replace!ent. They came up with nothing. They could have sent Trump whatever they wanted and dated him not to sign. They couldn't even manage that. Pathetic, but not Trump's fault.
But! Its just about the best outcome. If the GOP didn't have a good replacement it would have been suicidally stupid to put an unpopular replacement in, especially one that would not fix the imposdible-to-fix Obamacare problems!
The Media has done everything they van to hide or ignore the fact that Obamacare does not work. We are getting to the point where these failures are impossible to ignore. Why step in and give the Media the ability to pretend that the failures are the GOP's fault?
Best to fix with a popular bill. The didn't have one, so second best is to step back and hang the failures around the Dem's necks.

Dr Weevil said...

I've explained this already on a previous thread, but Unkown either didn't read it or didn't understand it, so here it is again:
Republicans are at least 30-33% of the voting population. If a poll with only 23% Republicans still gives Trump 36% support, it looks like his actual support is roughly 156% of the number of Republicans polled. If we recaluclate with a more realistic estimate of the percentage of Republican voters, some basic algebra (23/36=30/x or 23/36=33/x) suggests that Trump's actual support is in the 47-51.5% range. Even skewed polls are not entirely useless if they report the party breakdowns, allowing us to recalculate with more plausible assumptions. Too bad professional pollsters can't be counted on to do their work honestly and competently.

eric said...

What does it matter what polls say? Polls are skewed by California (remember Hillary won by 3 million votes?), New York and large cities on the left coast.

If you want to win the electoral college now as a Democrat, you're going to need to be ahead by more than a few points. And even then you might still lose.

Dr Weevil said...

Not only were "Those who voted for Trump . . . a minority of the American people", so were those who voted for Hillary, and so were those who voted for every other Presidential candidate ever. More important, those who voted for Trump, and those who voted for Hillary, were also a minority of those who voted. She won a plurality, but not a majority.

Achilles said...

Too bad professional pollsters can't be counted on to do their work honestly and competently.

These polls are pure trash for the reasons you explained.

Their job is to shape opinion not reflect it. These people are not trying to report news. They are trying to push an agenda.

Khesanh 0802 said...

For all of you who want to "primary" Collins remember that she is now the ONLY Republican senator from New England. She may be a lukewarm Republican, but that is what is required by her constituents. She votes Republican 60% of the time - which is certainly more than Sen. King. She represents a generally rural state with one large liberal city. She drives me nuts sometimes, but I'd rather see her running in Maine than anyone else. Primarily because she can win.

Drago said...

Khesanh 0802: "For all of you who want to "primary" Collins remember that she is now the ONLY Republican senator from New England"

I do agree with the Buckley Rule.

Khesanh 0802 said...

@Dr. Weevil Rasmussen has had Trump at between 43 and 46% approval. About the same as Obama for most of his tenure. Your math is pretty good!

gregq said...

This, at least, is the proper attitude: ObamaCare is the Democrats fault, and the Democrats problem. When it fails, they are to blame.

I'm ecstatic that the crap TrumpCare bill failed in the Senate. Repeal or nothing.

Note; Repeal means no more guaranteed issue, no community rating, no individual mandate, no "essential health benefits". Kill it all

Khesanh 0802 said...

@ Drago Yes, Collins is that candidate in ME.

Unknown said...

Why are we now first learning that there was a second meeting with Putin at the G20 Summit, with only the Russian translator there? An hour long meeting, the first one was 2 1/2 long. Why was this kept under wraps? No Trumpists bothered at all by this relationship?

gregq said...

HoodlumDoodlum said...
You guys are so focused on Trump you aren't thinking straight.
The GOP had Yeats to ready a good replace!ent.


They did. It was written by the now head of HHS. The problem is that it, like all good reform, would direct power away from DC, and far too many Republican Congress members care more about opportunities for graft than they care about doing the right thing.

So now we're going to have a wait a year or two for the ObamaCare death spiral, and make sure to drive out of office any Republican who tries to "work with the Democrats to fix ObamaCare."

And yes, I'd rather see them lose in the General Election to a Democrat, then keep a Republican willing to stab the base in that back that hard.

buwaya said...

"Well, with population density comes greater demand for land. With greater demand comes greater scarcity and greater prices. With greater population density also comes the need for more regulations, as the more people there are in an area, the more complicated becomes the management of the many, sundry, and conflicting wants and needs and beliefs in the population. It's easy to deal with one person for every 100 square miles, and harder to deal with 100 people for every 1 square mile, eh?"

But CA has plenty of land. As much or more per capita as Florida, say. There simply are more artificial constraints on using it, or impediments to diversifying commercial activity to less utilized areas, leading to high prices. Texas and Florida use land more efficiently, have a more diverse economy, and do not try to pack everything into a few gold-plated counties. CA has a whole North State to which half of the SF Bay Area could be moved to with no loss of efficiency. Not happening.

Matthew Sablan said...

Republicans some how owned the ACA's failures in some people's minds.

Mark said...

For all of you who want to "primary" Collins remember . . .

. . . Lowell Weicker. And how Buckley supported his Democrat opponent.

Khesanh 0802 said...

I don't know how it will possibly happen, but we have to get to a point where the pain is so great that the Democrats admit that they have to do something other than obstruct on ACA. Trump has the advantage of the "bully pulpit" from which he can remind everyone that we are still dealing with Obamacare as it continues to die. I agree with everyone who is angry because of the Senate's failure to act, and I also agree with those who say the Feds should get out of the health insurance /care business. That's not going to happen , however, so we can only dream that both Rs and Ds will get their heads out and do something for the benefit of the American people. Ha!

William Freiman said...

Chuck....in Hannity's defense he's been complaining about the Republicans like of action on health care for almost a year now, if not longer, now be a good boy and apologize.

Khesanh 0802 said...

@Unknown No, not at all.

hstad said...

Blogger Unknown said...
"That core base of sycophants is bigger than it was on Election Day when over 60 million people voted for him."

Delusional. 36% approval rating and on it's way further down. It's only the first six months.

7/18/17, 4:06 PM

The fact you cited this "FAKE POLL" tells everyone on this site that you are a paid troll. If not, then you credibility is zero since you resort to "FAKE DATA". Go read the details of the poll you just cited? They surveyed 26% Republicans out of 1001 surveyed. They biased their poll with favoring youngers voters, and they used Random Dialing which has been discredited. I'll just stop there, since the use of this poll is just another political narrative lie people like you love.

Michael K said...

"Why are we now first learning that there was a second meeting with Putin at the G20 Summit, with only the Russian translator there? "

Jesus.! Are you still stealing oxygen ?

Michael said...

Robert Cook "The system doesn't upset me so much, Drago, as it is what we have, but attempts to misrepresent the wishes of the real majority of the American public should be corrected. Those who voted for Trump were a minority of the American people." And a minority of the American people voted for Hillary. The majority of those who voted voted for Hillary but that is meaningless given where the votes came from.

Chuck said...

Blogger William Freiman said...
Chuck....in Hannity's defense he's been complaining about the Republicans like of action on health care for almost a year now, if not longer, now be a good boy and apologize.

I will not apologize. It is Hannity's rotten schtick. His claiming that he's not a Republican, that he's what; some kind of "registered independent conservative" or something.

Sure, he's been griping about the "GOP establishment" forever. Like Rush Limbaugh. With friends like that, who needs enemies?

Hannity is the same sort of useless turd that Trump is. Griping about the opposition, but doing nothing substantive. Never, ever, using his program to discuss healthcare substance. A ratings whore, for his dumbed-down audience.

Michael said...

"Why are we now first learning that there was a second meeting with Putin at the G20 Summit, with only the Russian translator there? "

So Putin could understand Trump but Trump couldn't understand Putin because there was no American translator? Holy shit but you are on to a big story here! I can understand why this has been "kept under wraps"

Unknown said...

"@Unknown No, not at all."

Not surprising for those who are not patriots, but merely sycophants of Trump. Pretty pathetic. Don't ever again pretend to care about the USA.

Unknown said...

"@Unknown No, not at all."

You'd be more apt if you flew the Russian flag on your avatar, you don't deserve to fly the Stars and Stripes.

Matthew Sablan said...

"I don't know how it will possibly happen, but we have to get to a point where the pain is so great that the Democrats admit that they have to do something other than obstruct on ACA."

-- I'd start with using the pen and the phone to enforce *all* of the ACA. Not just the popular parts.

antiphone said...

What we have is here the intended outcome. There's no real competition professional wrestling.

Obamacare is based on Romneycare, two different brand names for the same product. What we will have next is Trumpcare.

Why has all the recent discussion of the Deep State neglected to mention the deep pockets of the donor class and the revolving door that connects them?

Wikipedia

The health insurance mandate in the 2010 Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act, also known as Obamacare, is an idea hatched in 1989 by Stuart M. Butler at Heritage in a publication titled "Assuring Affordable Health Care for All Americans".[41] This was also the model for Mitt Romney's health care plan in Massachusetts.[42]

Funding

Tommy Duncan said...

Blogger Unknown said...

Why are we now first learning that there was a second meeting with Putin at the G20 Summit, with only the Russian translator there? An hour long meeting, the first one was 2 1/2 long. Why was this kept under wraps? No Trumpists bothered at all by this relationship?


I'm sleeping well knowing this...

My goodness, listen to yourself. Two world leaders meet for an hour? How shocking. How dare they meet? Who knows, they may have been colluding. Colluding to end the war in Syria or colluding to stop Iranian nuke development. Colluding. Russia. Secrets. Hacking. Putin. Colluding. Russia. Putin!!!!!!!!!!!

Dickin'Bimbos@Home said...

Democrats own Obamacare. The law of the land.

Matthew Sablan said...

If people keep insisting the ACA is based on the compromise Romney signed into law at the state level, it shows a severe lack of understanding how state governments work.

Michael said...

Unknown
The secret meeting was at a dinner with others present. Even the NYT strains to make anything of it other than the astonishment of other leaders who were not in the conversation.
But I think that Trump and Putin were probably discussing what part of the U.S. was going to become part of Russia in the new deal that Trump has negotiated in return for guaranteed full occupancy of Trump hotels and condos on a going forward basis with Russian occupants. Rack rates. Plus Trump shared the secret key which unlocks all voting machines in the U.S. but that brought a laugh to them both when Putin pulled an identical key from his pocket. Putin then drank Russian vodka and Trump had a diet Coke.

Khesanh 0802 said...

Apparently Trump meeting with that awful Putin has had benefits for some. jordan-gains-ceasefire-south-syria

Unknown said...

Why was the second meeting with Putin kept secret until it was leaked? What was he trying to hide? The continued support of the Traitor in Chief tells me your previous shows of patriotism were as bogus as is your President.

Matthew Sablan said...

Unknown: If that's a real question, then you have to wonder, exactly why Obama tried to promise Putin more flexibility in secret, and was not known until it turned out he didn't know how to work his own microphone.

Matthew Sablan said...

If Trump must go to jail for not revealing a private meeting with Putin, then surely Obama should be sharing the cell.

Dickin'Bimbos@Home said...

It takes too much courage to design a market based - consumer based - freedom based - liberty based - choice and competition based health care system.

People want it for free, and they don't care if it sucks.

Because FREE.

Michael said...

Unknown
The secret fucking meeting was a dinner with other world leaders; "The hourlong conversation in Hamburg, Germany, took place at a private dinner of the world leaders at a conference hall on the banks of the Elbe River during the Group of 20 economic summit meeting. It followed a more than two-hour formal meeting earlier in the day between the two presidents that included their foreign ministers and featured a fraught discussion about Moscow’s attempts to interfere in the 2016 elections...But the intimate dinner conversation, of which there is no official United States government record is the latest to raise eyebrows. Foreign leaders who witnessed it later commented privately on the oddity of an American president flaunting such a close rapport with his Russian counterpart." NYT
So, not "leaked" just not reported until now. The NYT is not exactly a good newspaper, fyi.

Dr Weevil said...

Why is Unknown refusing to meet arguments addressed to him? Can he admit that 36% support on a 23%-Republican poll is in fact a sign that his support is actually close to 50% of the voting populatin, or is he going to keep repeating "36%" like (or perhaps 'as') some kind of paid shill?

AJ Lynch said...

Let's face it - it was a crappy bill and would have been an albatross around Trump and Repubs necks for many years.

They need to do what Michael K suggests above:

Pass a bill that lets every individual and every business opt in or opt out of Obamacare. The bill could be written with one damn sentence.

Dickin'Bimbos@Home said...

Unknown - You know the answer - Poot and Trump were talking about how to collude to embarrass poor perfect wonderful saintly Hillary. and trick poor helpless Americans into distrusting the saintly mother of money grub and secret server.

bwahahahahahahaha.

Craig said...

"I just spent a half hour on the phone with my middle daughter who is a lefty living in a rent controlled apartment in Santa Monica.

She is planning to buy 5 acres in Idaho to build a house that she will someday retire to,.

She was struck by how cheap it is to get building permits and how friendly everyone is and how she is noticing that California is very expensive because of government."

"It takes too much courage to design a market based - consumer based - freedom based - liberty based - choice and competition based health care system."

It's like some of you once heard about markets, did no thinking about them, and then headed straight for the closest trending-right-blog to post comments. A microeconomics course or two and maybe some study of Coase's work would do a bunch of you good. (Well, it would put pressure on the quality of comments at least.)

The Toothless Revolutionary said...

Hahahaha. Bringing laziness to new levels, there go the Republicans - refusing to even take the responsibility for ending something they claimed was the worst thing since slavery - accessibility to medical coverage by 30 million Americans.

That Leader McConnell. He really is something, isn't he! Between his lockjaw mumbling, scared bulging eyeballs and hunched up shoulders - man oh man. History hasn't seen a leader this effective since Charlie Brown.

In a wheelchair.

There go the losers, watch them as they go! (Sing to tune of Foo Fighters).

Chuck said...

eric said...
"I don't think that Susan Collins, Shelly Moore Capito, Lisa Murkowski, Rob Portman, Dean Heller or Jerry Moran aspire to be in the business of losing elections."

Finally something Chuck wrote that I can agree with.

All they aspire to is power. Being elected. They don't care about doing the right thing. They are cowards.

They need to lose. We need to work to make sure they are defeated. Even if it means putting up with a Democrat seat holder for 6 years because our primary attempt fails.

Rob Portman was just reelected. He's not running for anything, maybe ever, but certainly not until 2022.
Ditto, Lisa Murkowski. Reelected in 2016 for six years, longer than Trump.
Ditto, Jerry Moran. A profoundly safe seat in red Kansas. If he does get primaried (and they do a fair bit of that in Kansas), it will be in 2022.
Susan Collins doesn't run until 2020; she may run for the Maine governorship before then, in 2018.
Shelly Moore Capito is safe for four more years too.
So your "Let's-primary-them!" list is just Dean Heller. If you want to give that seat back to Harry Reid Jr, you are not my kind of Republican.

The Toothless Revolutionary said...

Making the government they're in charge of fail. AND getting paid - well, and with handsome access to special interests - for it.

Those Republicans really are something special, aren't they.

The Toothless Revolutionary said...

Well, with population density comes greater demand for land. With greater demand comes greater scarcity and greater prices. With greater population density also comes the need for more regulations, as the more people there are in an area, the more complicated becomes the management of the many, sundry, and conflicting wants and needs and beliefs in the population. It's easy to deal with one person for every 100 square miles, and harder to deal with 100 people for every 1 square mile, eh?

EXACTLY. Couldn't have said it better myself.

The whole Republican-conservative project is a war against the needs of an increased population - and pretending that they can be regulated in the way that a smaller population was.

How stupid do they think people are?

The Toothless Revolutionary said...

In actual fact, it is an electoral majority of Americans who like, want, or agree with Trump.

The 538 electors granted winner-take-all votes per state are not the same as the 320 million American people upon whom you pretend to project majoritarian consensus.

Stop lying. The system is intentionally undemocratic, and your guys know it and like it that way. They DO NOT want what the majority of Americans want. The funny thing is, how long they think they can continue their war against public opinion and the public interest.

Marty Keller said...

I bow to no one in my disdain for the unholy GOPe/DNC/MSM rent-seekers' alliance, the animus against which led to President Trump's slim victory last year, but several commenters have noted the real problem: the sheer impossibility of repealing a mass entitlement.

We Americans are notoriously easily bribed by our own money; our $20 trillion debt is simple evidence of our lazy susceptibilty to political promises that, essentially, allow us to pretend there are no termites in our national woodwork.

I didn't vote for Mr. Trump expecting much actual turnaround, just a slowdown; I expect we lazy voters will bring the Dems back next year (and throw them out again in 2020) because we have become addicted to magical thinking--and no political formation currently in existence will be able to turn magic into reality.

Our elections have just become boring temper tantrums that will not produce adult behaviors or solutions until the scales have fallen from the eyes of a clear majority.

EMyrt said...

buwaya, great comments as usual.
But for once, I disagree with you.
It's about employer tax advantaged health insurance.
That was created in the 1930s as part of the fascist period in US politics, when folks like Henry J Kaiser (I live in his old neighborhood in Oakland) and his wife came up with Kaiser Permanente as a way to offer healthcare to their workers and had enough clout to get the tax advantages baked in.
Today, we are no longer an industrial big-company economy and the old system hugely disadvantages small businesses and self-employed individuals. Making those tax advantages belong to individuals and not their employers would be a big help, but not even Rand Paul seems to be suggesting that. I wonder why?

Birkel said...

I agree that TTR could not have said it better.
Never has.
never will.
Incapable.

HT said...

The 538 electors granted winner-take-all votes per state are not the same as the 320 million American people upon whom you pretend to project majoritarian consensus.

Members of Congress these days want to shunt everything to the states. Increasingly, I am hearing from officials in states and municipalities that they like and support federal programs. So what happens when the states, newly empowered, start demanding more federal involvement, not less, more federal funds?

The Toothless Revolutionary said...

The partisan pettiness on this thread is rather remarkable - even for an Althouse comments section. Do the Republicans want to see something done about the uninsured, underinsured and overpriced, or do they not? And how will that happen when they are so stupid as to think that an industry with a necessarily high-priced, restricted supply cartel known as "medical providers" will conform to "free market" principles?

They are delusional. Medical care is high value/high cost and restricted availability. Republicans seriously are so stupid as to think that medical doctors will actually be cranked off of a supply line like increased widget production and somehow the high standards that restrict who can practice won't actually be a barrier. Or else they think the tens of millions who will lose out if you left their access or affordability left out will just roll over and take it.

Republicans suck at this stuff. It will be awesome to watch them go down in flames from here. The ideologues who run these threads actually think that people care more about abstract philosophy and Koch Bros special interest money than about whether they have the access to live instead of die.

And just yesterday Trump figured out that different states have different needs. And blames lack of Republican consensus on Democrats. What a fucking genius - they said he was!

Marty Keller said...

And right on time along comes TTR spouting leftist nonsense that, nonetheless, millions of us actually believe (I should know; I live in California). And perhaps voters will put him and his comrades back in office next year in the attempt to find the savior who will save us from ourselves.

But the same laugh that is on the GOPe today will be on them then: they will believe that the majority of us want what they want, against all evidence to the contrary.

Perhaps they will be smarter than the GOPe and finally fact the facts, but somehow I doubt it.

EMyrt said...

Cook and Toothless

Is that a Marxist talking point, that the more people we have, the more government we need?
Maybe I've read too much Hayek and Mises, but I understand it to be the opposite; the bigger the economy the more we need individual choice and the invisible hand to avoid the fatal conceit of government running things into the ground.
Fifty plus years of Democrat controlled cities certainly suggests that more government has not delivered in the blue enclaves.

Except maybe to the rent-seekers.

I am Myrt

The Toothless Revolutionary said...

It is the Life Long Republicans who torpedoed this. We don't want you in the party anymore because all you do is betray us when it comes time to vote.

How much should I bet that you've never had any involvement in the Republican Party at any level?

The Toothless Revolutionary said...

And right on time along comes TTR spouting leftist nonsense that, nonetheless, millions of us actually believe...

And just like any dutiful right-wing crank, this Marty Keller guy offers no specifics on what exactly was said that was "nonsense."

His faith-based politics and ideological posturing is so cute. Something a kid can do.

Michael said...

There should be no "uninsured" in America today given it is against the law and subject to a fine if you do not have insurance. And you don't need it anyway since you can hang back until you get a bad biopsy then pop on line and buy some for your treatment. Small fine every year but way cheaper than "insurance." What a fucking joke.

The Toothless Revolutionary said...

Is that a Marxist talking point, that the more people we have, the more government we need?

Don't know. Sounds like you read a hell of a lot more of him than I ever did. Seeing as how I haven't read any of him.

Maybe I've read too much Hayek and Mises, but I understand it to be the opposite;

Well as long as keeping your head in a book keeps you ideological and oblivious to the reality around you, that's the important thing. Keep on with this right-wing social engineering you seek to implement.

..the bigger the economy the more we need individual choice and the invisible hand to avoid the fatal conceit of government running things into the ground.

That invisible hand must really be doing a number on your jerking off sessions. I was not aware that individual physicians could "choose" to increase their numbers, drive down the cost of their care, and magically become more affordable like that. Something about licensing exams and restricted medical school admissions. But keep believing in magic! Right-wing social engineering takes no note of these realities!

Fifty plus years of Democrat controlled cities certainly suggests that more government has not delivered in the blue enclaves.

Except maybe to the rent-seekers.


Good point. Less New York, more Somalia. That's the answer. Genius! Mel Gibson had a societal ideal in The Road Warrior. Why can't we have that in America? Whine whine whine.

The Toothless Revolutionary said...

There comes Michael, just in time to bring in the hedge-fund manager's perspective on life as a non-millionaire. Just what the thread needed. What a leader!

Lydia said...

You're not going to like the Dem's fix Donny: Its single payer.

He's on record over many years as being in favor of a single-payer system, so I think he'll be fine with it.

FIDO said...

Just for the record: I don't blame Trump for Obamacare. I don't blame Republicans that the exchanges all across the states are failing. I don't blame the young adults for not buying because the insurance is junk.

This was something opposed AGAINST the desires of Republicans AND the Public.

And Democrats did it anyway.

The fact that the Dems will demagogue this is the Republicans make a single change which is politically toxic says nothing about Republicans. It is that they know that the price for touching Obamacare is horrible.

So who is KEEPING Obamacare in place? Democrats. No matter how horrible it continues to show itself.

At this point, it would be nice and honorable and honest for Democrats to admit they gave us a crap program.

They refuse to.

The Toothless Revolutionary said...

I believe in euthanasia for the Republican Party.

Clearly just waiting around watching it slowly kill itself with all its irrelevant posturing to the issues of the day is only prolonging its misery.

The Toothless Revolutionary said...

Putting the Republican Party in charge of the government is like putting a 13-year old in charge of a major corporation. He beats his chest, whines, complains about how difficult it is and how no one knew it was that difficult, and then says he's going to just sit around and let the company fail. Clearly his board is mired in a conspiracy against him. And FUCK those investors! Did they actually expect a return? A service?

FUCK THEM. It's all about the kid in charge.

Republican leadership in a nutshell.

Michael K said...

Althouse, do really want Ritmo posting 20 comments on a thread and driving others away?

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