July 10, 2017

Giving new meaning to the old epithet "Little Marco," here's a screen shot of my Twitter feed just now.



Here's Rubio's Twitter feed. Here's that stifle-yourself verse from Proverbs.

I consider it civility bullshit. My proverb is: Beware of those who invoke virtue as they invite you to unilaterally disarm; those who tell you to shut up are not themselves shutting up.

Here's Trump's Twitter feed. Here's the Fox & Friend "big yawn" clip. Here's some background on Ivanka sitting in for Trump. Here's an article on Comey's inclusion of classified information in those memos he made of his conversations with Trump.

ADDED: The expression "so illegal!" cracked me up.

136 comments:

harrogate said...

Jeez, Trump pisses and moans a lot

Chuck said...

I don't think that there is anybody in the country right now who is doing more to kill any health care reform, than Donald Trump.

#Sad? #Beautiful!

chickelit said...

Jeez, Trump pisses and moans a lot

On the contrary, that's an issue for people with pro-State problems.

brylun said...

Having had a top secret cryptographic security clearance while in the military, there is no doubt what would have happened to me if I made notes of a business meeting and gave those notes to someone who did not have the appropriate security clearance and a need to know.

tcrosse said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Chuck said...

"Giving new meaning to, 'He's the chaos candidate. He'd be a chaos president.'"

Humperdink said...

^^^^^^ Really Chuck? Think maybe Ryan and McConell are a bit timid on this topic?

Humperdink said...

Marco, having been impaled by Trump in an earlier joust, climbs back on the horse for another go.

Hagar said...

If chaos defeats the Chucks of this world, I am all for it!

Martha said...

Trump pisses off all the right people.

Trump's Sunday morning tweet for example:
Putin & I discussed forming an impenetrable Cyber Security unit so that election hacking, & many other negative things, will be guarded..

Watching the Sunday morning talk shows try to interpret that tweet—priceless.

rhhardin said...

There's a deeper displacement going on.

Althouse is deploring what are appeals to women, saying they ought to stop, where what ought to happen is that women become more self-aware of when they're thinking like women, and stop it when it's dysfunctional, like politics.

Half the population is deeply stupid.

In politics, abstract from details, don't add them.

Fabi said...

Little Marco -- still not ready for prime time.

Chuck said...

Humperdink: This is Althouse's blog, and she's bored by health care insurance and health care reform. I'll pass.

(In all honesty, let's admit that Althouse and President Trump are on the same page; they both are bored by health insurance and the policy arguments on all sides. There's no policy argument from Trump's perspective. He'd just as easily sign a bill for a single-payer national health, as he'd sign a bill that repealed the ACA with no replacement of any kind. All that Trump wants, or needs, is something that allows him to claim a personal victory of some kind.)

CStanley said...

I don't do twitter and always find links to twitter feeds confusing. Was that tweet by Rubio in response to something Trump tweeted?

Gahrie said...

"Giving new meaning to, 'He's the chaos candidate. He'd be a chaos president.'"

You say that like it is a bad thing...

Matthew Sablan said...

"I don't do twitter and always find links to twitter feeds confusing. Was that tweet by Rubio in response to something Trump tweeted?"

-- This just looks like a user's feed. Responses usually have blue or gray bullets linking them together so they form a thread.

Once written, twice... said...

The most interesting Tweet is Trump's saying that congressional Republicans won't dare leave Washington without a repeal and replace of Obamacare.

Trump set up impossible goals for Republicans. "It will be better, cheaper, and everyone will be covered!" Of course Republicans can't deliver that.

Trump will turn on Republicans in Congress and they are already turning on him.

Matthew Sablan said...

"I don't think that there is anybody in the country right now who is doing more to kill any health care reform, than Donald Trump."

-- Democrats are. Trump has something he'll say yes to, whether or not I like it. Dems will kill any bill that comes up.

Matthew Sablan said...

Wait -- how can Trump be doing the most in the country to kill Health Care Reform -- AND be willing to sign anything put in front of him so he can claim victory? I can't square those two statement.

As for Comey: It isn't like leaking national secrets is a crime, since he didn't intend for it to happen.

Chuck said...

Matthew Sablan said...
"I don't do twitter and always find links to twitter feeds confusing. Was that tweet by Rubio in response to something Trump tweeted?"

-- This just looks like a user's feed. Responses usually have blue or gray bullets linking them together so they form a thread.


Correct. As Althouse made it clear in her post, it is her Twitter feed.

Freder Frederson said...

there is no doubt what would have happened to me if I made notes of a business meeting and gave those notes to someone who did not have the appropriate security clearance and a need to know.

You are full of shit, just because you have a "top secret cryptographic security clearance", does not mean everything that you discuss in your job is classified. What in the leaked memo was classified? It is not illegal to leak unclassified information (it may be against your agency's policy, and may get you fired, but it is not illegal).

Khesanh 0802 said...

The first and last are the only ones worth considering. Trump is absolutely correct that it will be a disgrace if Congress recesses without dealing with at least part of the health care/health insurance situation. Health insurance for 2018 is moving into crisis territory for individual policy holders who, though a small population are a vocal population. Failure to do anything, even to the extent of admitting defeat and providing funding for the insurance companies to offset losses thus slow premium increases will be a disaster. I suppose individual reps can try to offset the negative by blaming it on Obama, but that won't work. The Rs were elected to DO SOMETHING about Obamacare and DOING NOTHING ain't going to fly. I can see passing a few measures with the promise of returning to health care after the break, but failure to act at all - no,sir! If I were Trump I would threaten to call Congress into special session and to hold them there until they pass something or admit defeat. (Don't know if can be done Constitutionally, but why not?) If Congress were a business they sure as hell wouldn't be going on vacation when 20% of their business was threatened with chaos. Screw 'em!


Someone mentioned in a previous thread that Comey wrote his Trump memo in a government car, on a government laptop, while he was on the government payroll. That he claims that is private work product is beyond laughable. As I have mentioned before Grassley is not one of Comey's fans so I am happy that Comey is being forced to testify before his committee.

Freder Frederson said...

Dems will kill any bill that comes up.

And how will they do that? Republicans hold both houses of congress and the presidency.

AlbertAnonymous said...

Oh no trump jr. met with a "Russian lawyer" with "ties to the kremlin"

What utter garbage!

Jeremy Bash was just on the Todsy show claiming it was unprecedented and potentially devastating. Wtf?

First of all why say "potentially"? Because you know you're slinging BS and want some deniability?

So the candidate's son and campaign committee member takes a meeting with a woman who claims to have dirt on The candidate's opponent. OMG? Treason!!!!

But she was a Russian lawyer... OMG ! Treason!!!

Quit mocking. She has "ties to the kremlin". Um ok, what ties? No one says. Just "ties" or "may be tied" to the kremlin.

Well shit. As far as any of you know, the Professor MAY have ties to the Kremlin. Romney MAY have cheated on his taxes. Harry Reid MAY have had sex with us dog.

This is the state of "journalism" in the US? Good God!

Matthew Sablan said...

Freder: Anonymous sources to The Hill say that the leaked memos contained Secret information, as labeled by the FBI. Take what you will from anonymous sources.

harrogate said...


"Democrats are. Trump has something he'll say yes to, whether or not I like it. Dems will kill any bill that comes up."


Not only are they unable to "kill" any bill, but what if there was a bill to expand coverage to more citizens? They might even *support* that!

Chuck said...

Matthew Sablan said...
Wait -- how can Trump be doing the most in the country to kill Health Care Reform -- AND be willing to sign anything put in front of him so he can claim victory? I can't square those two statement.


Oh hell that is so easy. Trump is killing health care reform by (as mentioned just above) promising impossible things. And not building any plan of his own, or helping to build a plan. But doing shit like twisting arms in the House to get a bill passed, and then turning on those members by calling their bill "mean." By telling Senate leadership what to do strategically. By not publicly engaging on any of the hard decisions and compromises, and using the bully pulpit of the presidency to take a side and get a win.

Most of all, by being almost determinedly ignorant about the most basic aspects of health care reform.

And yes, Trump is on a path to become the most-hated Republican in Washington, supplanting Ted Cruz. All that Trump had going for him before was that he was a kind of a joke of a blank slate. Now he's making real enemies.

Matthew Sablan said...

Er, actually, if the anonymous sources are to be believed, the memos *originally contained* the Secret markings, meaning that when Comey created them, he stamped them.

rhhardin said...

His videos don't work at all. Click the arrow and is impressively says "connected," but no data transfers and the CPU usage rises to about 30% and stays there.

I quit waiting after 5 minutes.

Apparently is some improved feature that I don't have. Good choice, Scott.

harrogate said...

Well, Chuck, to be fair, Trump was right. The bill was mean.

Khesanh 0802 said...

@ Freder I hate "anonymous sources" so take the following for what it's worth, but it is part of the article Ann links to: "The FBI has determined the seven memos Comey kept about their discussions are government documents — and has labeled four of them to indicate that they contain “secret” or “confidential” intel, The Hill reported Sunday night, citing anonymous sources." So Comey apparently leaked classified information. Perhaps you owe bryfun an apology.

Comey and many others seem to sit high on the self-righteousness scale. Comey's is beginning to look more and more like Hubris. It is time Comey's transgressions caught up with him.

Unknown said...

The news reports that classified info in Comey's emails were being made public? Fake news. I'm pretty sure that the House and Senate Intel Committees and the Special Counsel will see the unredacted version though, which they are privy to.

MayBee said...

I don't get the "civility bullshit" tag on this one.

Matthew Sablan said...

The Hill article is actually confusing; I think now the markings were added later, if the anonymous sources are right.

Though, simply judging by what Comey said, they definitely were government, not personal, documents. He didn't call them a diary or journal entry, or anything like that. He described them as official memos to record the event.

Humperdink said...

LLR asserted: "I don't think that there is anybody in the country right now who is doing more to kill any health care reform, than Donald Trump."

Humperdink responded: "Think maybe Ryan and McConell are a bit timid on this topic?"

LLR further responded: "Humperdink: This is Althouse's blog, and she's bored by health care insurance and health care reform. I'll pass."

Pass? You started it .... and then deflected.

Freder Frederson said...

So Comey apparently leaked classified information. Perhaps you owe bryfun an apology.

He leaked one memo. What in that particular memo was classified?

Matthew Sablan said...

"He leaked one memo. What in that particular memo was classified?"

-- We do not know how many leaks Comey made; we do not have the full text of the memo. However, all of the information in the memo was government work product, so the information Comey was releasing was not his to release. He stole a document from the FBI to provide his friend to give to friendly reporters.

Once written, twice... said...

It is clear that congressional Republicans are sabotaging Trump behind the scenes but when it becomes open warfare is when things will become real interesting. When Trump turns on Pence is when things becomes explosive.

Why do you think Drudge is constantly pushing the story that Pence is "quietly" creating his own power base? Why aren't Republicans in Congress defending Trump in the media?

Republicans want Pence, but getting there....

Unknown said...

"And yes, Trump is on a path to become the most-hated Republican in Washington, supplanting Ted Cruz. All that Trump had going for him before was that he was a kind of a joke of a blank slate. Now he's making real enemies."

Good. It'll make it all the easier to impeach him, when the time comes and it is coming.

Ron Winkleheimer said...

You are full of shit, just because you have a "top secret cryptographic security clearance", does not mean everything that you discuss in your job is classified.

I think it was an unstated assumption that the matters under discussion were classified.

Anyway, my clearance was only secret, but I did have one job where I had to configure an encryption machine (had to actually pull a circuit board out and it had dip switches labeled a-z and 0-9, this being when dinosaurs roamed the earth.) The encryption keys were printed on a paper tape that was in a film roll type canister and you pulled out one key per day. After setting the encryption key you had two choices on how to destroy the paper it was written on. You could either run it through a blender with some water and then flush it or you could burn it up.

If I had for any reason neglected to destroy that piece of paper, or wrote it down and "leaked" it to a third party, I would have gone to jail.

Matthew Sablan said...

Also, Comey most likely leaked two memos. He admitted to leaking:

1. A memo about Michael Flynn.

2. A memo about his conversation with Trump.

They may be the same memo, but given how he described them, I doubt it. Also, he admitted to taking the physical memos with him after he left the FBI. Many of them had classified/secret material in them.

You do *not* walk out carrying Secret materials and get to shrug it off.

Chuck said...

harrogate said...
Well, Chuck, to be fair, Trump was right. The bill was mean.

Maybe! But then why twist arms to get it passed and then stand with the House leadership in the Rose Garden and substantially take credit for it?

If I were in Congress, the lesson I'd take away was, "Do only what I need to win my district. Never, ever trust Trump on anything. He will take credit for our work, and lash out at us if it suits him."



Unknown said...

"Republicans want Pence, but getting there.."

I hear Republican donors are giving generously to Pence.

Unknown said...

"Maybe! But then why twist arms to get it passed and then stand with the House leadership in the Rose Garden and substantially take credit for it?"

Trump can't keep his narrative straight even in the same paragraph. First he wants to work with the Russians on a joint Cyber Security project, then he says no he doesn't. Schizophrenic Presidency.

Khesanh 0802 said...

@Freder Pretty weak. I quote again the key part of the report : The FBI has determined the seven memos Comey kept about their discussions are government documents — and has labeled four of them to indicate that they contain “secret” or “confidential” intel.

Key phrases: "The FBI determined"; "seven memos"; "are government documents"; "four...contain secret or confidential intel".

Freder, not one but seven and yes, I still think you owe bryfun an apology.

Fabi said...

Republicans in the House and Senate [the legislative branch -- where they actually legislate] have been running on repealing Obamacare for about half a dozen years before Trump even announced his bid for presidency. Trump's hands are perfectly clean on this matter.

Unknown said...

Key phrases: "The FBI determined"; "seven memos"; "are government documents"; "four...contain secret or confidential intel".

So what? You assume he leaked classified info from those seven memos. There is no indication he did.

Seeing Red said...

Trump doesn't need to build a health care plan since the republicans RAN and GOT ELECTED on doing that for the past 7ish years. It's their responsibility to have had something to go. Not Trump. They should put BC OTC, lift the caps on the 50-person employee, it didn't work in France, it never should have been included, lift the caps and device tax which cost jobs, catastrophic-only insurance for the young, revamp some Medicaid rules to shove the remaining in there, make the boomers pay for their costly eye tucks, reduce the kids coverage to age 24--I'd like to see it to age 23, up Medicaid co-pays at least by $1. How efn hard can this be? They've had years!

Fabi said...

No indication he did -- other then the FBI saying it.

Khesanh 0802 said...

@Once, written Congressional Republicans are sabotaging each other. They have to run again in a little over a year. Trump has three years until he faces the voters. Trump has delegated working with Congress to Price and Pence.

Trump is essentially above the fray waiting for a bill to be passed. The Senate is looking like a bunch of fools. They are the ones who voted to "repeal" Obamacare when it meant nothing, but now can't get anything done when it means something.

Unknown said...

"Fox and Friends described a story from The Hill, “It turns out, he may actually have broken the rules. A brand-new bombshell report accuses Comey of putting our national security at risk. According to the Hill, the former FBI director’s personal memos detailing private conversations with President Trump contained top secret information.”

This is not true. Comey gave one memo to a friend that contained no classified info. As The Washington Post pointed out, “During his testimony, Comey refers to the memo he gave to his friend in the singular — ‘the memo.’ There’s no indication that he asked that one of the classified memos be leaked. In fact, his testimony — under oath, remember — was the opposite.”

Trump took an inaccurate Fox News report and used to attack someone that he views as a political enemy. Trump has done this often as a candidate, and as president. The conservative media echo chamber creates false information that the president uses to attack his enemies real or imagined."

Seeing Red said...

And once plans bloom, means-test the remaining Medicaid recipients and if they're over the limit, the truth is out there, find a plan that fits cos the truth is out there.

Seeing Red said...

What's the big deal about impeachment? The former rapist-in-chief didn't leave, why should Trump?

Freder Frederson said...

Oh no trump jr. met with a "Russian lawyer" with "ties to the kremlin"

I doubt you would be sanguine if it were Chelsea Clinton and John Podesta. The hypocrisy is strong here.

Khesanh 0802 said...

@Unknown Yes, I will assume that Comey did because it was a clear practice of his. You can assume he didn't because he is such an upright character. We'll see.

Laslo Spatula said...

From "Humor Neutral: Post-Modernism, the Prisoner and the Construct of Culture":

As we begin to understand Humor Neutrality as a defense against the oppression of personal liberty, we must then realize that humor itself is a bourgeois commodity. Lack of humor, perceived by the bourgeois as a negative trait, is in fact necessary for the progression of a culture…

Humor Neutrality is thus a major step in the development of a greater, more just, society. To laugh at humor is to agree with oppression: social justice begins in the rejection of said laughter…

The truly progressive, though, do not simply reject humor: they have developed the greater inability to see it as such in light of its oppressive nature. After all, to reject is to imply there is something worthy of rejection: it provides an identity to a nullity. To put this in simple terms: sometimes two-plus-two is not four, it is but the presence of two twos…

I am Laslo.

Mary Beth said...

Rubio tweets a Bible verse daily and he seems to favor Proverbs. He may have done it in response to Trump or it may just be a coincidence.

Freder Frederson said...

Freder, not one but seven and yes, I still think you owe bryfun an apology.

Comey leaked one memo. Seven were turned over to Congress (one of which was apparently the leaked one). You need to improve your reading comprehension and knowledge of the situation.

The question remains, what did Comey leak that could possibly be classified? Just because you have a private conversation with the president, it doesn't mean the entire conversation is classified (or even necessarily any of it).

We do not have an Official Secrets Act in this country. In fact the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) assumes just the opposite, that unless government documents are classified, they are subject to public release (and even documents that contain classified information are subject to release once classified information has been redacted).

And yes I know there are exceptions to FOIA that limit its scope, and if you would like to have a discussion about the mechanisms of FOIA, I can certainly go there, but it will be taking the thread off topic.

Unknown said...

"No indication he did -- other then the FBI saying it."

No, they did not. In The Hill article, it states that the FBI declined to comment. You like unsourced comments when they say what you want to hear, eh? The hypocrisy, sheesh.

Freder Frederson said...

make the boomers pay for their costly eye tucks

means-test the remaining Medicaid recipients and if they're over the limit,

Non essential cosmetic surgery is not mandated by Obama care and not covered by Medicare , and covered by very few, if any, private plans. Medicaid is already means-tested.

What the hell are you talking about?

Fabi said...

They had classified security markings, unknown -- there's no debate about it. Or keep fucking that chicken -- I don't care.

Mary Beth said...

Here are his recent Proverbs tweets. I had read that he tweets daily but it looks like he skipped some days.

The beginning of wisdom is fear of the LORD, & knowledge of the Holy One is understanding. Proverbs 9:10 (7/9)
They will die from lack of discipline, lost because of their great folly. Proverbs 5:23 (7/5)
Every word of God is tested;he is a shield to those who take refuge in him. Proverbs 30:5 (6/30)
If a wise person disputes with a fool, there is railing and ridicule but no resolution. Proverbs 29:9 (6/29)
Those who trust in themselves are fools, but those who walk in wisdom are safe. Proverbs 28:26 (6/28)
Iron is sharpened by iron; one person sharpens another. Proverbs 27:17 (6/27)
As dogs return to their vomit,so fools repeat their folly. Proverbs 26:11 (6/26)
The eyes of the LORD watch over the knowledgeable, but he defeats the projects of the faithless. Proverbs 22:12 (6/22)
One’s path may be winding and unfamiliar, but one’s conduct is blameless and right. Proverbs 21:8 (6/21)

If he skips days, that tells me it's not pre-programed and possibly not pre-selected. Maybe it was in response to Trump's tweet verbosity although he has added a hashtag when he wanted it to be clear it was in response to something.

"Be sure of this: The wicked will not go unpunished" Proverbs 11:21 #SyriaChemicalAttack (4/6/17)

Fabi said...

I must apologize for setting you up with the "FBI" comment. I shouldn't pick on the handicapped. Lulz

Unknown said...

"They had classified security markings.."

So what? Which one did he leak? Answer... none.

Chuck said...

Khesanh 0802 said...
...
Trump is essentially above the fray waiting for a bill to be passed. The Senate is looking like a bunch of fools. They are the ones who voted to "repeal" Obamacare when it meant nothing, but now can't get anything done when it means something.

It looks bad, for Republicans to have cast obviously-political (and just as obviously ineffective "messaging") votes to repeal the ACA.

I think it looks worse, for Trump to have gone way beyond that, and to have promised a repeal and replacement of the ACA, where everybody would see lower premiums, better care, universal coverage, and never any reductions of Medicaid or Medicare coverage. Congressional Republicans never did a-n-y of that.


Freder Frederson said...

They had classified security markings, unknown -- there's no debate about it.

So what? You are the one fucking the chicken. The issue is if the one memo Comey leaked contained classified information. There is no evidence that it did. And it is out there, point to something in the memo that could possibly have been classified.

Unknown said...

"Lulz"

What a stupid expression, but then it comes from someone who claims the FBI said something they didn't. LOL!

Fabi said...

Ouch -- don't hurt my feelz! Lulz

I'll let you two brainiacs work on your mad reading and logic skillz for a while. Best wishes.

Unknown said...

"I'll let you two brainiacs work on your mad reading and logic skillz for a while. Best wishes."

Yes, good idea to leave before you make an even bigger fool of yourself.

Once written, twice... said...

Chuck, I love how Trump set the Republicans up for an epic shit shower over healthcare. Forget the rest of their legislative agenda as well.

FullMoon said...

Freder Frederson said... [hush]​[hide comment]

....
I doubt you would be sanguine if it were Chelsea Clinton and John Podesta. The hypocrisy is strong here.


So, Trump just nominated. Clinton a supposed lock to win. Russians talk with Jr. and you suppose they did not talk with Hillarys team? Probably had conversations with Hillary personally.

Matthew Sablan said...

How do we know that he only leaked one? He leaked

1. Memo about Flynn

2. A Memo about his discussion with Trump

according to him. Why are they described differently if they were one memo?

clint said...

Freder Frederson said...
" "Oh no trump jr. met with a "Russian lawyer" with "ties to the kremlin""

I doubt you would be sanguine if it were Chelsea Clinton and John Podesta. The hypocrisy is strong here."

Wait, did you really mean to imply that you believe John Podesta has never met with any Russian with ties to the Kremlin?

MayBee said...

You're not allowed to just take written classified information home with you, right?

It's not the document that's classified, but the information. Right?

Matthew Sablan said...

"It's not the document that's classified, but the information. Right?"

-- Kinda sorta. It's both; the information and the way/manner it is presented.

Unknown said...

Ever heard of redaction?

MayBee said...

Yeah, I should have been clearer, Matthew Sablan.

I meant, you can't just jot down classified info on a piece of paper- or speak it aloud to someone- and it suddenly isn't classified anymore.

Matthew Sablan said...

"Ever heard of redaction?"

-- Comey, once he was no longer working at the FBI, does not have the authority to redact a classified document.

brylun said...

Freder, the trash mouth, obviously never had a security clearance. Profanity isn't very persuasive, and you lack knowledge to otherwise speak to the issue.

MayBee said...

Once he no longer works at the FBI, he shouldn't even have the document.

Freder Frederson said...

Freder, the trash mouth, obviously never had a security clearance.

Actually, I did (although in the field I was in we rarely handled classified material, although things did get ridiculously overclassified after 9/11. e.g. waste water treatment plant plans for military bases suddenly were classified "secret")

Unknown said...

"Once he no longer works at the FBI, he shouldn't even have the document."

Really? Who says? What don't you get about personal memos?

Matthew Sablan said...

"Really? Who says? What don't you get about personal memos?"

-- It wasn't a personal memo. Comey said he thought it wasn't an FBI memo. He was wrong.

Matthew Sablan said...

Also: Who says?

The FBI's code of conduct.

MayBee said...

Really? Who says? What don't you get about personal memos?

That you can't just have classified information (that you wrote as part of your government job) sitting around your house after you've left the government.

MayBee said...

18 USC 1924

Whoever, being an officer, employee, contractor, or consultant of the United States, and, by virtue of his office, employment, position, or contract, becomes possessed of documents or materials containing classified information of the United States, knowingly removes such documents or materials without authority and with the intent to retain such documents or materials at an unauthorized location shall be fined under this title or imprisoned for not more than one year, or both.

Drago said...

Khesan: "Trump is essentially above the fray waiting for a bill to be passed. The Senate is looking like a bunch of fools."

Once upon a time this was known as triangulation.

Further, Trump's public pronouncements clearly represent the wishes of the republican base, and that base in no way blames Trump for the house/Senate republicans failing to do what they've been talking about for 7 years.

Of course, anyone is free to listen to the numbskulls who have gotten everything wrong to date.

MayBee said...

Nobody here can honestly think a government employee can just jot down classified information on a "personal memo" and bring it home and distribute as he wishes (or not), right?

Drago said...

Freder: "e.g. waste water treatment plant plans for military bases suddenly were classified "secret")"

Apparently our resident Field Marshall is utterly unaware of Intel pointing to water treatment plants as obvious low risk/high payoff terrorist targets, for all too obvious reasons.

Unexpectedly.

Drago said...

MayBee: "Nobody here can honestly think a government employee can just jot down classified information on a "personal memo" and bring it home and distribute as he wishes (or not), right?"

Apparently that behavior is no longer illegal because "Trump".

Chuck said...

I have to say that just like Althouse, the phrase, "So illegal!" cracked me up too.

I often get the impression that Trump still doesn't quite recognize the position he occupies. As if he were just some guy alone with his phone in a hotel room watching tv. Except that the hotel is the White House. And he is the president. He is detached from all of this stuff that he doesn't quite understand.

Unknown said...

Comey didn't disclose any classified info. He was within his rights to disclose his personal memos as long as they are unclassified.

"The text of Comey’s memos have not been publicly released. Comey’s written remarks, disclosed a day before his hearing, detail five meetings he had with Trump and why he created memos about the discussions.

Comey at the hearing acknowledged that he considered the memo he shared with his friend to be a personal, not government, document. "My view was that the content of those unclassified -- the memorialization of those conversations -- was my recollection recorded," Comey said.

Several law professors told us there are no laws prohibiting Comey from sharing conversations he had with Trump in an unclassified manner.

"It absolutely is legal for Comey to share his own private reflections that do not consist of closely held national security secrets with the press, whether by passing on the information himself or through a friend," said Heidi Kitrosser, a law professor at the University of Minnesota.


"Anti-leak" laws like the Espionage Act only apply to closely held national security information, Kitrosser said.

"There is absolutely no basis that I have seen to believe that Comey's private recollections fall into that category," Kitrosser added

If information is classified, it might be covered by the Espionage Act or another federal law and therefore illegal for Comey to disclose it, added Jamal Greene, a constitutional law professor at Columbia University. (He’s also a colleague of the professor with whom Comey shared the memo.)

"But I know of no reason why sharing the content of a private conversation with the president with the press would be illegal," Greene said. "In addition, and significantly, the disclosure is protected by the First Amendment."

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2017/jun/11/donald-trump-comeys-leak-memos-totally-illegal/

Matthew Sablan said...

"Comey at the hearing acknowledged that he considered the memo he shared with his friend to be a personal, not government, document."

-- He is wrong.

Matthew Sablan said...

"It absolutely is legal for Comey to share his own private reflections that do not consist of closely held national security secrets with the press, whether by passing on the information himself or through a friend," said Heidi Kitrosser, a law professor at the University of Minnesota.

-- Comey can share his recollections; he cannot give out the FBI's private documents.

Matthew Sablan said...

"But I know of no reason why sharing the content of a private conversation with the president with the press would be illegal," Greene said. "In addition, and significantly, the disclosure is protected by the First Amendment."

--

A) The *recollection* is allowed. Sharing the actual FBI memo is NOT allowed.

B) Government work documents are government property. You do not have a First Amendment right to give other people's property to a third property.

If Comey had just said, "This is what I remember," we'd be fine. His decision to write a memo to record the event for the FBI (remember, that was his stated purpose, not his personal memoirs. He stated it was because it made him uncomfortable, and he wanted it on the record. That's an official, government document, NOT a personal memo.)

Drago said...

"I often get the impression..."

Lol

Drago said...

Politifact & Mother Jones!

Unknown continues to bring the "big guns" of "leftydom"/"lifelong republican"-ville to the battle!

DKWalser said...

Althouse -- I think you've been unfair to Rubio. Senator Rubio was recently excoriated Politico's Joel Baden for Rubio's habit of tweeting verses from the "the Most Republican Part of the Bible" (Proverbs). As Mary Beth noted above, he quotes a verse from Proverbs most days and most days the verse selected matches the date (that is, either the number of the chapter or verse matches with the number of the month or the date of the month).

It could be that Rubio started tweeting verses knowing that Trump would someday give him the chance to select a verse that made Trump look bad, but I think the far more likely explanation is that Rubio is just quoting a daily verse from Proverbs for a reason that is unrelated to Trump. Unless you've got more evidence than the timing of Rubio's daily tweet, it appears you've engaged in the mind reading you so often (correctly) chide other for.

Unknown said...

"Politifact & Mother Jones!

Who are infinitely smarter than you.

Lovernios said...

Ron Winkleheimer "Anyway, my clearance was only secret, but I did have one job where I had to configure an encryption machine (had to actually pull a circuit board out and it had dip switches labeled a-z and 0-9, this being when dinosaurs roamed the earth.)"

I was an RTT Team Chief 72-75 for 3rd Armored Division Artillery with secret crypto when Trilobites roamed the Earth (swam the oceans?) because we had a small patch panel with 26 wires labeled a-z that were patched into corresponding numerical holes according to the day's code. The codes were only good for 24 hours. The crypto gear was this heavy box that took 2 people to carry. We both needed to be armed with M-16s with a full magazine.

Khesanh 0802 said...

@Freder You are right I did not read the legalese closely enough. Comey is only known - at the moment - to have leaked government work product to further his own goals.

I still believe (hope)that Comey is in danger of falling into the Sandy Berger situation of removing classified information from his place of work. "In April 2005, Berger pleaded guilty to a misdemeanor charge of unauthorized removal and retention of classified material ". Cost him $50K, had him on probation, did 100 hours of community service and lost his security clearnce. I 'd be okay with that for Comey.

Drago said...

Infinitely

Gee, that would make them Gods, just like your side said Obambi is.

Something tells me you are mistaken in both counts.

Lol

Unknown said...

[SEN. MARK] WARNER: And I found it very interesting that in the memo that you wrote after this February 14 pull-aside, you made clear that you wrote that memo in a way that was unclassified. If you affirmatively made the decision to write a memo that was unclassified, was that because you felt at some point, the facts of that meeting would have to come clean and come clear, and actually be able to be cleared in a way that could be shared with the American people?

COMEY: Well, I remember thinking, this is a very disturbing development, really important to our work. I need to document it and preserve it in a way, and this committee gets this, but sometimes when things are classified, it tangled them up.

WARNER: Amen.

COMEY: It's hard to share it with an investigative team. You have to be careful how you handle for good reason. My thinking was if I write in such a way that won’t include anything that trigger classification, that will make it easier to discuss within FBI and government, and to hold on to it in a way that makes it accessible to us.

Etienne said...

Fear the Lord; Don't fear the reaper:

Gus & Fin

Where Ukulele's rule!

Matthew Sablan said...

"COMEY: It's hard to share it with an investigative team. You have to be careful how you handle for good reason. My thinking was if I write in such a way that won’t include anything that trigger classification, that will make it easier to discuss within FBI and government, and to hold on to it in a way that makes it accessible to us."

-- So, Comey is admitting the Memo was a government document, not his personal recollection. Which means that the FBI overrules him on the classification, even if he didn't "intend" for it to be classified.

Unknown said...

"-- So, Comey is admitting the Memo was a government document, not his personal recollection. Which means that the FBI overrules him on the classification, even if he didn't "intend" for it to be classified."

No, he's not. He shared his private memos with the FBI, what is so difficult to understand here?

Matthew Sablan said...

Unknown: That's not how it works. He wrote it for the FBI, as the FBI Director, about an FBI matter, in the hopes the FBI team could use it for FBI purposes.

The "personal journal" aspect of it is clearly an excuse tacked on after the fact, as even Comey's own testimony makes clear.

AlbertAnonymous said...

Freder said:

"Oh no trump jr. met with a "Russian lawyer" with "ties to the kremlin"

I doubt you would be sanguine if it were Chelsea Clinton and John Podesta. The hypocrisy is strong here.

7/10/17, 10:04 AM"


Do me a favor, don't be a jerk. Don't assume something about me and then use that assumption to call me a hypocrite.

I wasn't making any commentary on trump v. clinton. I was commenting on the absence of facts in a story that's leading all the MSM newscasts. They report that Trump Jr. met with a "Russian lawyer" and claim (with no evidence) that she had "ties to the Kremlin." No wonder they're derided as fake news.

I watched a Kate Bolduan segment reporting that story, followed by a panel discussion on "what it means" which was all "if they did x, then maybe y" and "this is unprecedented, etc. Outrage outrage." Then she cuts to a CNN reporter in Russia to ask about the woman's Kremlin ties and the reporter says "we spoke to her people and they say she doesn't work for the government" and "we spoke to the government people and they say she doesn't work for them." No facts supporting the story of "kremlin ties" none.

But God forbid Trump tweet something. CNN will say "Trump tweeted (without any evidence) that...."



Khesanh 0802 said...

@Etienne Great job! A little levity never hurt anyone.

Khesanh 0802 said...

I will freely admit that I don't like/don't trust Comey. He is a classic example of the self-interested ass-kissing bureaucrat. I hope that Grassley pulls him up short and that the new FBI director investigates his leaking. False hopes I am sure; but I can dream can't I?

Khesanh 0802 said...

@AlbertAnonymous Jesus Christ, don't let the facts get in CNN's way.

Darrell said...

Comey and many others seem to sit high on the self-righteousness scale. Comey's is beginning to look more and more like Hubris. It is time Comey's transgressions caught up with him.

Martha Stewart offered to drive him to prison.

Freder Frederson said...

Apparently our resident Field Marshall is utterly unaware of Intel pointing to water treatment plants as obvious low risk/high payoff terrorist targets, for all too obvious reasons.

I was hoping someone would point this out soI could school them on the very real idiocy of over-classification.

There is nothing magical about military water or wastewater management. Anyone with access to a college textbook could easily figure out how to sabotage a plant(hint, Blow up the biggest pipes and tanks). But consider the consequences of classification. First all your operators are going to have to get security clearances to continue doing a job they have been doing for many years. Very expensive but doable in the states. But what about overseas? The plants are run and designed by local nationals. No security clearance for them.

Drago said...

Field Marshall Freder: "I was hoping someone would point this out soI could school them on the very real idiocy of over-classification."

Yes Freder, you are "schooling" people.

Just like Hillary schooled Trump and Chuck schooled everyone who thought Trump might win.

Whole lotta "schoolin" going on.

walter said...

Marco sure has lost his comic edge since the small hands jokes.

Drago said...

walter: "Marco sure has lost his comic edge since the small hands jokes."

He has indeed lost much if his quiet confidence though in time he has the tools to recover if he begins internalizing more of what the base desires vs the beltway insiders who helped destroy every republican primary candidate they represented.

An army of incompetent/Dem Light Steve Schmidt's & Nicole Wallace's.

Earnest Prole said...

When Obamacare was struggling in the House there was a moment when Nancy Pelosi told Obama, as politely as possible, "Shut up, your divisive shit is not helping me to win over moderates, let me handle it behind closed doors." Obama listened and Pelosi delivered. Now Marco Rubio is attempting to say the same thing to Trump. Something tells me he won't listen.

walter said...

Right..he has no other way to convey that to Trump other than tweeting the Bible?
If that's what he's trying to do, good effing grief.

Earnest Prole said...

To some the Bible is a shared language, like Shakespeare; to others it's just insolent noise.

Darrell said...

Why does Freder want to minimize the critical importance of water treatment plant security? Does he still harbor the fantasy of knocking out a city with a couple of tabs of LSD? Or killing everyone with the amount of fentanyl he can have in his shirt pocket? Blowing up water plants isn't the issue and never was. And plant security positions are generally filled with people who don't realize how important their jobs are--or who are in-laws of a local politician.

Freder Frederson said...

Why does Freder want to minimize the critical importance of water treatment plant security?

First off, I was mainly referring to waste water treatment plants, not drinking water plants. Secondly, it is the classification of the blueprints and schematics that is problematic, not the physical security of the plants. Nothing is gained, and a lot is made exceedingly difficult by such classification. Anyone with half a brain can research water treatment systems (either drinking or waste water) and walk into practically any facility in the world and figure how to do serious damage.

Oh and btw, knocking out a city with a couple tabs of LSD or fentanyl is a silly fantasy.

Birkel said...

The discussion of so called, alleged "over" classification is a talking point to excuse the criminal behavior of Comey, who excused the criminal behavior of Hillary Clinton, and led the Deep State insurgence while leveraging his position to get his friend, Bob Mueller, appointed to a position from which he can harass the president with continued leaks.

It is a series of lies.

Francisco D said...

Freder,

You seem to be very invested in Comey's credibility.

Don't you think that he's a really creepy sort of guy?

Darrell said...

Comey lied his ass off in the Sandy Berger case. I remember his press conference where he tried to say that Berger only destroyed copies and that the originals were still in the archive. Nothing to see here. Well, Berger destroyed MARKED UP review copies. And Clinton's handwriting on the review copy made it an original that was invaluable to the 9/11 hearings that were going to be conducted. Comey and Berger should have shared a prison cell for that alone.

Humperdink said...

LLR said: "I have to say that just like Althouse, the phrase, "So illegal!" cracked me up too."

LLR, your comment cracked me up. You do realize this is DC we are talking about, where prosecutorial discretion reigns supreme.

Recall the phrase: "you could indict a ham sandwich". In DC, we have legal, illegal, semi-legal, indictable, felonious, high crimes, low crimes (misdemeanors), prosecutable, criminal but no intent, .... and don't forget the new term - undocumented (referring of course to our country's uninvited guests). "So illegal!" should fall into one of those categories.

Drago said...

Freder: 'Nothing is gained, and a lot is made exceedingly difficult by such classification. "

You have no one idea what you are speaking of there Field Marshall.

Gospace said...

Chuck said...

And yes, Trump is on a path to become the most-hated Republican in Washington, supplanting Ted Cruz. All that Trump had going for him before was that he was a kind of a joke of a blank slate. Now he's making real enemies.


Trump had real enemies before in Washington. He's not on the path to become the most hated person in Washington, he's there, and has been there. Except, of course, among what's commonly called the Republican base. Voters like me. Who were skeptical of Trump. And who are delighted that he is appointing conservative judges and making the right people's heads explode. And we're pretty much disgusted with a Senate and House that can't vote on the following: "The "Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act" is hereby repealed."

Kirk Parker said...

Lovernios,

WTF good were the M-16's to you when you had your hands full of this crypto equipment that was so large and heavy it took two people to carry it? You two needed an overwatch team. Apparently "Security Theater" is not a new invention after all.

Kirk Parker said...

rhh,

Asking women to become more self-aware? Dude, put down the pipe, and help me get that darned 19th Amendment repealed!

Kirk Parker said...

Hagar,

"If chaos defeats the Chucks of this world, I am all for it!"

I sense the start of a movement... or at the very least the start of a Beautiful Friendship.

Drago said...

I keep hearing distant chords from the yet to be written Beach Boys hit "Little Marco".

Kirk Parker said...

"You have no one idea what you are speaking of there Field Marshall."

Yeah, this is not a new thing.

Humperdink said...

LLR said: "And yes, Trump is on a path to become the most-hated Republican in Washington ..."

Thankfully, Trump has all the right enemies: Commie-pinko liberals, GOP elites, the Hamptons crowd, Dem elites, the media, the Norks, Hollywood, and of course the local crowd on the AA blog. A lot of overlap there. Visualize a Venn diagram.

Ken B said...

So illegal shouldn't crack you up. It means serious enough someone might be actually charged. Unlike setting up a private email server. Comey himself decided that wasn't so illegal.

Unknown said...

BOOM! It just keeps getting worse and worse...for the Trump Administration.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/10/us/politics/donald-trump-jr-russia-email-candidacy.html?_r=0

WASHINGTON —Before arranging a meeting with a Kremlin-connected Russian lawyer he believed would offer him compromising information about Hillary Clinton, Donald Trump Jr. was informed in an email that the material was part of a Russian government effort to aid his father’s candidacy, according to three people with knowledge of the email.

Mr. Goldstone’s message, as described to The New York Times by the three people, indicates that the Russian government was the source of the potentially damaging information. It does not elaborate on the wider effort by Moscow to help the Trump campaign. There is no evidence to suggest that the promised damaging information was related to Russian government computer hacking that led to the release of thousands of Democratic National Committee emails.

But the email is likely to be of keen interest to the Justice Department and congressional investigators, who are examining whether any of President Trump’s associates colluded with the Russian government to disrupt last year’s election. American intelligence agencies have determined that the Russian government attempted to sway the election in favor of Mr. Trump.

Birkel said...

"There is no evidence..."

Agreed.