Althouse: "For you to be seen with a black man wouldn’t in any way jeopardize your career, if anything it would make you seem that much more open and exciting."

July 19, 2017

"For you to be seen with a black man wouldn’t in any way jeopardize your career, if anything it would make you seem that much more open and exciting."

"But for me at least in my previous perception I felt due to my ‘image’ that I would be letting down half of the people who made me what I thought I was. Like you said, I haven’t been the kind of friend I know I am capable of being... I never meant to hurt you."

Wrote Tupac Shakur to Madonna in a letter that Madonna says was stolen from her. A judge has blocked the auction that had been scheduled to take place. (WaPo link.)

40 comments:

Wince said...: Once you read that unguarded letter between celebrities, the "deep state" concept makes so much more sense as a system of tacit collusion resulting from a convergence of interests and shared status.; 7/19/17, 7:42 AM
Laslo Spatula said...: "...I felt due to my ‘image’ that I would be letting down half of the people who made me what I thought I was."

True.

If you were caught fucking Madonna at least half of the people who thought highly of you would now be, at the least, disappointed in your judgment.

The other half would want to know what STDs did you get.

I am Laslo.; 7/19/17, 7:43 AM
rehajm said...: My first thought: What does Tupac stationery look like? What Tupac stationery is acceptable for his 'image'?

I see it's ripped from a legal pad. Not three hole or ripped spiral bound ruled, but nice.; 7/19/17, 7:46 AM
tcrosse said...: Gentlemen do not read other gentlemens' mail.; 7/19/17, 8:10 AM
exiledonmainstreet, green-eyed devil said...: EDH said...
Once you read that unguarded letter between celebrities, the "deep state" concept makes so much more sense as a system of tacit collusion resulting from a convergence of interests and shared status.

7/19/17, 7:42 AM

Yep. It makes me think of how dynastic and aristocratic marriages were arranged in pre-modern Europe, with the parties involved (or, more accurately, their ministers, diplomats, and in the case of aristocrats, the heads of the families ) thinking of what material and strategic advantages could be gained from the marriage. Affection didn't enter into it.; 7/19/17, 8:11 AM
Ann Althouse said...: "I see it's ripped from a legal pad..."

And each of the 3 pages was ripped without getting the tear to go all the way across the perforation. So typical of legal pads! The kids growing up today will never know that petty frustration — inability to get the tear to follow the perforation. It could be a good metaphor in a song about break-up letters, but like so many metaphors, it cannot be understood anymore.; 7/19/17, 8:14 AM
I Have Misplaced My Pants said...: That is really personal and private. Not appropriate for the WaPo to publish an excerpt.; 7/19/17, 8:14 AM
Ann Althouse said...: Did you notice the last name of the woman accused of stealing the letter is Lutz, the same name as the guy in the previous post, which is also about a break-up letter?; 7/19/17, 8:15 AM
Ann Althouse said...: The name Lutz is most familiar as an ice skating jump (named after Alois Lutz). It sounds funny since it's so close to the familiar would "klutz," which is the opposite of an ice skater.; 7/19/17, 8:19 AM
Ann Althouse said...: "That is really personal and private. Not appropriate for the WaPo to publish an excerpt."

The full letter has been photographed an published elsewhere. WaPo is only republishing what was already fully public. I did the same thing, so if it's wrong, I'm equally wrong.; 7/19/17, 8:20 AM
Ann Althouse said...: I think it is newsworthy, and I think we can elevate the discussion of something in a way that is dignified toward the people involved.

There's something tragic about what Shakur wrote about himself, something that has a more general meaning that we could discuss. But you could also think that it's wrong -- especially for white people -- to go on about what it felt like to be him. My sense is that it's wrong if you're doing it for cheap fun and stray judginess, but not wrong if you're sincerely contemplating the human condition.

That said, I'm not trying to dictate a no-comedy rule here. These are extremely famous, big-shot, rich people, and that's the most apt target for comedy (even though Shakur is dead).; 7/19/17, 8:26 AM
Oso Negro said...: I refuse to attempt to penetrate the Wapo site. Does he go on to say which half he is letting down? Is it black women who must have the spectacle of a popular black man with a white woman? Is it black people whose sensibilities will be offended by him fraternizing with whitey? Is it suburban white teenagers who need to think of him as a thug?

The letter makes me grateful that I am not a celebrity of any sort and consequently free to associate with anyone it pleases me to spend time with.; 7/19/17, 8:27 AM
Fernandinande said...: Oso Negro said...
I refuse to attempt to penetrate the Wapo site.

I was weak because I wanted to see how they would lie about it.

Does he go on to say which half he is letting down?

Here's the Washington-POS lie:
"By his “image,” Tupac was likely referring to his status as an activist and social critic focusing on the perils faced by America’s black communities through his music."

IOW, "black women".; 7/19/17, 8:42 AM
Laslo Spatula said...: Shakur's dilemma was how to balance how others see him and how he wanted to be seen.

It's easy to forget who you actually are when weighing these concerns.

Celebrity is built on Image, not the Self.

Most celebrities attempt to reconcile this by trying to make the Self more like the Image.

In the Rap World, this involved acting like a Gangsta to meet the perception of being a Gangsta.

Then Tupac got shot.

The Image worked.

I am Laslo.; 7/19/17, 8:42 AM
The Cracker Emcee Refulgent said...: "But you could also think that it's wrong -- especially for white people -- to go on about what it felt like to be him."

Adult men, of any color, don't sit around prating about their image. If Madonna was truly his friend then he acted like a little bitch. Is she wasn't, then he still acted like a little bitch.; 7/19/17, 8:43 AM
Hammond X. Gritzkofe said...: "Celebrities" obsessed with image and "race."; 7/19/17, 8:46 AM
Wince said...: Forever out bad-boying Sean Penn.; 7/19/17, 8:48 AM
exiledonmainstreet, green-eyed devil said...: So, is today's blog theme letters?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HIWY8UyW9bw; 7/19/17, 8:58 AM
Bay Area Guy said...: Shorter Tupac:

Look, you crazy white Ho. You sleep with me, your street cred goes way up. I sleep with you, my street cred goes way down. Ya feel me? So it ain't happenin' no more.; 7/19/17, 9:08 AM
n.n said...: Progressive liberal standards. Case in point: [class] diversity or judging people by the "color of their skin". At least Shakur is honest in describing the consequences of a life lived in a climate of anthropogenic cognitive dissonance.

The tell-tale hearts beat ever louder.; 7/19/17, 9:10 AM
dustbunny said...: Denzel Washington was quite open about his choice to not kiss Julia Roberts in 'the Pelican Brief' as he said it would disappoint his black female fans. Clint Eastwood said he cast an Asian woman as his girlfriend in 'Dirty Harry' because he received a lot of fan mail from Asian women. I realize these are rolls not real life but stars know nothing if not where to butter their bread.; 7/19/17, 9:37 AM
Ann Althouse said...: "I realize these are rolls not real life but stars know nothing if not where to butter their bread."

Time for a sandwich.; 7/19/17, 9:48 AM
Paddy O said...: "...but like so many metaphors, it cannot be understood anymore."

This would be a great chorus to a song called "Metaphor" about a young couple explaining their love to their fuddy-duddy parents. Kind of like Morissette's "Ironic" but full of outdated metaphors.

If I had time and could write songs, I'd give it a go.; 7/19/17, 9:54 AM
exiledonmainstreet, green-eyed devil said...: Time for a sandwich.

7/19/17, 9:48 AM

A ham sandwich, I presume.; 7/19/17, 9:57 AM
William said...: I think Madonna should take up with R Kelly. Win win for both of them. Kelly puts to rest all those nasty rumors, and Madonna gets to have a disreputable boyfriend.......It's become increasingly difficult for a female celebrity to have a disreputable love life. Interracial or lesbian flings are yawned at. I suppose child molestation would be breaking new ground, but, in a meta way, it would be even more scandalous to have an affair with a child molester. If she could arrange a three way with Justin Bieber and R. Kelly, that would be the ideal career move. Sadly, Justin is a little over the hill for such things, but it's worth a shot. Maybe they could drop a commemorative song(s) with the video. Bound to be a big best seller.; 7/19/17, 10:18 AM
dustbunny said...: Enjoy every sandwich.; 7/19/17, 10:28 AM
Ralph L said...: I thought Tupac was the dead gay rapper, but I don't follow that genre.
As with politicians, the major talent of successful artists seems to be their self-promotion.
Must be exhausting.; 7/19/17, 10:46 AM
Ralph L said...: it would be even more scandalous to have an affair with a child molester
Then he'd be up for elder abuse.; 7/19/17, 10:48 AM
I Have Misplaced My Pants said...: My sense is that it's wrong if you're doing it for cheap fun and stray judginess, but not wrong if you're sincerely contemplating the human condition.

That was not the writer's or the recipient's intention for those words. Would you want your private communications to or from an intimate partner or friend to be stolen, printed in the media, and pored over for purposes of 'contemplating the human condition?'; 7/19/17, 10:57 AM
I Have Misplaced My Pants said...: I had emails and g-chat transcripts stolen and shared with others. The perpetrator felt justified and that the sharing had value, but that doesn't make it any less of a monstrous violation of my privacy and right to communicate privately with the people in my life without the judgmental gaze of others.; 7/19/17, 11:01 AM
n.n said...: What about a relationship with a man or woman who identifies as "exotic"?

A little black. A little white. A twist of yellow. Thrilling.

Perhaps Madonna could identify as black and balance the chromatic scales.; 7/19/17, 11:03 AM
bgates said...: These are extremely famous, big-shot, rich people, and that's the most apt target for comedy

Somebody thought Tupac was an apt target for big shots.; 7/19/17, 11:43 AM
bgates said...: Did you notice the last name of the woman accused of stealing the letter is Lutz, the same name as the guy in the previous post

Did you notice the last name of the man who wrote the letter is the same as the woman in the poster three posts ago?; 7/19/17, 11:47 AM
Bay Area Guy said...: To Madonna's credit, she did play the Hollywood power game and win it decisively.

She came from nothing, and after 34 years and tens of albums, movies, number 1 hits, and magazine covers, she's worth $800 Million, and slept with nearly every man she ever wanted to.

Not a fan of her music or persona, but basically she saw, came and conquered.

And at age 59, she's still kinda, sorta kicking butt!

It pains me to write this, but I think it true.

So, she gets dumped by Tupac, but he gets shot at age 25, more than 20 years ago.

Madonna wins again; 7/19/17, 11:47 AM
mockturtle said...: "I realize these are rolls not real life but stars know nothing if not where to butter their bread."

Time for a sandwich.

Was it Molly Ivins who exclaimed, "Well, butter my buns and call me a biscuit!"?; 7/19/17, 12:08 PM
Bay Area Guy said...: How come nobody mentions that Tupac was a convicted rapist?

From Wiki:

In November 1993, Shakur and others were charged with sexually assaulting a woman in a hotel room. Shakur denied the charges. According to Shakur, he had prior relations days earlier with the woman that were consensual (the woman admitted she performed oral sex on Shakur). The complainant claimed sexual assault after her second visit to Shakur's hotel room; she alleged that Shakur and his entourage raped her. As a result of the trial, Shakur was convicted of first-degree sexual abuse, and acquitted of the weapons and sodomy charges. The judge described the crimes during the sentencing of Shakur to 1½–4½ years in prison, as "an act of brutal violence against a helpless woman."[116][117]

Why do certain leftwing Hollywood celebrity icons hate women so much?; 7/19/17, 12:25 PM
Birches said...: Wow. Now I know for sure. Everyone in Hollywood has slept with Madonna.

She's always been a bit of a Kardashian in her taste in men...how was she married to Guy Ritchie for so long?; 7/19/17, 2:25 PM
Char Char Binks, Esq. said...: Racial sensitivity bullshit. Tupac had fun with Madonna, but then he wanted younger, fresher meat.

No matter. The most important thing about a break-up note is not its truthfulness.; 7/19/17, 3:58 PM
urbane legend said...: Someone will pay for a letter to/from Madonna? Maybe you have made too much money.; 7/19/17, 4:34 PM
Michael K said...: Dennis Rodman was her low point, I would say but who knows with that bunch ?; 7/19/17, 8:12 PM