Althouse: The Alexandria shooter was "radicalized by mainstream media."

June 14, 2017

The Alexandria shooter was "radicalized by mainstream media."

A good turn of phrase by Scott Adams.

272 comments:

1 – 200 of 272 Newer› Newest»

Fen said...: MSNBC is a hate site. They need to be removed from cable. Who do we go to? The FCC?; 6/14/17, 4:48 PM
Chuck said...: It's a good turn of phrase, except that Scott Adams doesn't actually know anything about the shooter, and if he were a trained and licensed psychologist or psychiatrist (as opposed to a trained hypnotist and millionaire cartoonist), he'd be ethically barred from making such a judgment.

I do note as a matter of fact that the guy had a prior arrest (and conviction?) record. Simply because one of the first things that the media can do (online, in most cases) is check for an arrest record and then call up the mugshot.

Anybody know what the shooter's prior record was all about? Was he radicalized then?; 6/14/17, 4:49 PM
AllenS said...: This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.; 6/14/17, 4:51 PM
Mike (MJB Wolf) said...: Apt.

Jihadis have the darkweb and Youtube beheading channels. Leftist evildoers have the mainstream media, Hollywood and the general arbiters of culture, all of which have been soiled by their hatred of Trump. And this hatred is actually displaced hatred of Republicans, concentrated on the most "liberal" "Republican" in 100 years, who was for gay marriage before both HRC and BHO and who championed all kinds of other "progressive" causes before assuming the GOP mantle last year.

If the Dangerous Party weren't so dumb they could have "cooperated" enough to lead Trump -- after all he's stupider than them, right? -- where they wanted to go. But they chose all-out opposition and dialing the HATE up to eleventy.

Now the media cry crocodile tears over the blood they have shed.; 6/14/17, 4:54 PM
rehajm said...: Cute but he could already have been a dipshit.; 6/14/17, 4:55 PM
eric said...: He has the added benefit of being right.

Here's the thing. They should no more lose their first amendment rights because of this murderer than the rest of us should lose our 2nd amendment rights.

It's disgusting how irresponsible our media has been. But they've got the freedom to continue doing it. And they will. Until the next Obama is President.; 6/14/17, 4:57 PM
Mike (MJB Wolf) said...: except that Scott Adams doesn't actually know anything about the shooter

Well don't leave us hanging smarty pants. What DOES Scott know and what DOESN'T he know?

Are so stupid you are equating "radicalized" and arrested for assault (charges dropped)? Is this some compare and contrast that went over my head too? Please enlighten me!; 6/14/17, 4:57 PM
Bay Area Guy said...: "Radicalized by the mainstream media" is exactly on point.

Althouse has used the benign term "othering" which is also what the Left is trying to do to Trump.

In fairness, "othering" is what many folks did to blacks, gays and women in the past.

But, today, in 2017, the Left is hell-bent on "othering" Donald Trump, and many of his supporters.

That's how unhinged they are.

And, the least stable, well, they can carry it too far, as that murderous idiot Hodgkinson did.

Temper the emotions, avoid personal attacks, and vigorously stick to the issues, I say.; 6/14/17, 5:00 PM
Darrell said...: It’s things that are completely manufactured about Trump personally, about Trump and Russia, about climate change, about any number of things. As you know, I have been seriously, folks — seriously in a humanitarian sense, not political. I have been very concerned about what all of this is doing to the average, base Democrat voter. I have sensed them getting more and more fringe and imbalanced, and the evidence for it is everywhere in the things that they tweet. They openly promote violence, and advocate some of the most despicable things happening to their political enemies.
The hatred is raw, it is undiluted, it’s just savage. These are the mainstream of the Democrat base, and I don’t have any doubt that they are being radicalized. They’re being radicalized. In this case, this guy’s favorite TV shows, Comedy Central, Bill Maher, left-wing comedians. John Oliver on HBO. Half the people at Comedy Central. Rachel Maddow was his all-time favorite. He thought she should run for president. These people have radicalized guys like this all over this country.

https://www.rushlimbaugh.com/daily/2017/06/14/hodgkinson-soaked-up-liberal-fake-news-like-a-sponge/; 6/14/17, 5:00 PM
Fen said...: Chuck, we have Facebook evidence going back to 2005 of the shooter embracing the hate memes of the liberal media. Did you miss that he tapped off to Rachel Maddow for years?

You can spin all you want, everyone sees through it.; 6/14/17, 5:01 PM
Fen said...: Fapped off not tapped; 6/14/17, 5:01 PM
Meade said...: @Allen S, we're trying to reduce the number of personal attacks in the comments. Would appreciate your help and everyone's help.; 6/14/17, 5:02 PM
Darrell said...: This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.; 6/14/17, 5:02 PM
Meade said...: @Darrell,
yours too.; 6/14/17, 5:05 PM
Otto said...: " Oh the rhetoric made me do it" BS, everyone is responsible for their action. What nanny state effete wimps we are becoming when we think the media rhetoric defines who we are. Pure PM.; 6/14/17, 5:05 PM
Clyde said...: Just as radicalized Muslim terrorists have their heads stuffed full of hatred from their religious sources, so this radicalized progressive shooter had his head stuffed full of hatred from his political and media sources. In both cases, people are told that their opponents are so wicked that any means of combatting them is allowed, including horrific acts of violence. The radicalized Muslim terrorist wouldn't go out and kill infidels unless someone put the idea into his head, and similarly, the radicalized progressive shooter had these ideas put into his head by the rhetoric of Democrats and progressive talking heads in the media. The analogy is apt.; 6/14/17, 5:06 PM
Darrell said...: Meade, I missed your Ritmo warnings, yesterday. Apparently, Lefties get a pass then.; 6/14/17, 5:07 PM
Fen said...: "They should no more lose their 1st Amendment rights than -"

But we DID lose 2nd Amendment rights over all those shootings - all kinds of restrictive laws intended to whittle down our right to self-defense.

Using their own logic, so what if MSNBC gets yanked off the air? We will still have CNN ABC CBS NBC NPR WaPo NYTs etc; 6/14/17, 5:08 PM
David Begley said...: As part of my reporting on the 2016 campaign on Power Line, I attended many Democrat events. The first one was a Bernie Sanders rally in Iowa. I was in the midst of those people. I can't say I am too surprised by this. The media can drive a marginal guy to the edge. I'll be watching MSNBC tonight to see them dance and distance themselves from their own nuttiness.; 6/14/17, 5:08 PM
MadisonMan said...: I do understand the need to put out clickable content in a timely way, so I understand why Scott Adams is doing it, and why Althouse links.

Given that Scalise is in critical condition, though.....; 6/14/17, 5:10 PM
Fen said...: "the rhetoric made me do it"

Her skirt was too short, she was asking for it.

Worse, the Left is so unhinged that "let's enforce immigration law" is hate speech.; 6/14/17, 5:11 PM
M Jordan said...: Yes, Adams hits this one square on.

The Left accuses the Right of weaponizing speech but exempt themmselves from the same charges. Remember Sarah Palin's bulls eyes on congressional districts? That's what caused Gabby Giffords' shooting. Meanwhile, Obama said "Bring a gun to a knife fight."

This double standard must stop and it must stop by the Right screaming as loudly as the Left each time something like this happens.; 6/14/17, 5:14 PM
The Cracker Emcee Refulgent said...: Adams is right again. The mainstream of Leftist thought is, in fact, insane. That being the case, there's no way things don't get ugly before the Left is restored to rationality.; 6/14/17, 5:16 PM
Fen said...: Meade, I appreciate the attempt at moderation. If I feel that some effort is being made, I am less likely to push back against trolls.

But why can't you just ban the instigstors? Sure, they may come back with a sockpuppet, but when you ban the name you remove months of rivalry and grudge.

Better, software that gives us an ignore function, because obviously appeals to self-restraint keep failing.

Or shadow banning. Let them diatribe away all week before they realize no one else can read them.; 6/14/17, 5:18 PM
Chuck said...: I wasn't excusing the shooter; and I wasn't defending him in any way, and wasn't offering any hypothesis of my own.

And I wasn't defending any of the usual left-wing mainstream media outlets.

My gripe was with Scott Adams' remarkable overblown bloviating. That; and only that. (53+ minutes of that! Finally getting to the point where he was reading complaints about how boring he was getting!)

Still, it is amusing to see how anything other than the prescribed pro-Trump narrative is howlingly questioned.

I checked on Mr. Hodgkinson's arrest record in the last couple of minutes. And it is remarkable, for a lengthy string of petty antisocial/violence prone offenses. I don't know what his actual convictions might have been. But a real, natural, first-rate asshole, it seems, under some circumstances.

I guess I am grateful for getting linked to that Twitter page (never knowing that it existed) and Adams' weird fireside Twitterchats. I never would have known that Scott Adams is now demanding Jeff Sessions' resignation for having spoken out about enhanced federal enforcement of marijuana laws. Who woulda guessed that one?; 6/14/17, 5:18 PM
peacelovewoodstock said...: Fen do you want us to be just like the UK, where they arrest people for burning the Koran?

The reason we have the 1st Amendment is to protect "hate speech" ... no one has a problem with "love speech", we would never even think of needing the Constitution to protect that.

"I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it."; 6/14/17, 5:19 PM
David Begley said...: The shooter was against pipelines. I guess he was a CAGW believer. That is mainstream Dem. party line. Because: Science!; 6/14/17, 5:19 PM
James Pawlak said...: Rumor has it that he was a moderate Bernie Bro but was radicalized by watching CNN and Stephen Colbert....

H/T "Of Arms And The Law"; 6/14/17, 5:20 PM
Francisco D said...: Chuck wrote " ... If he were a trained and licensed psychologist ..."

As you know I am a trained and licensed psychologist in practice for 30 years. However, I am not going to use those credentials to make a diagnosis.

I am going to use common sense which tells me that, like many shooters, the man has a serious mental disorder.

Leftism is a serious mental disorder. It probably got left out of the DSM-V for political reasons.

My advice to the weak of mind and character: Don't drink the Kool-Aid.; 6/14/17, 5:22 PM
Achilles said...: "The Alexandria shooter was "radicalized by mainstream media.""

The left and the media are the same thing. The difference is between the tools and the masters. The Alexandria shooter was a tool. The media is a tool. In the end it is the masters we need to get a hold of.; 6/14/17, 5:23 PM
Etienne said...: I hope they haul all his friends in, and interrogate them. If there are any.

I hope they have a wide dragnet. Error on the side of heavy thumbs.; 6/14/17, 5:25 PM
Achilles said...: Jimmy said...
Fen do you want us to be just like the UK, where they arrest people for burning the Koran?

The reason we have the 1st Amendment is to protect "hate speech" ... no one has a problem with "love speech", we would never even think of needing the Constitution to protect that.

"I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it."

This works when the other side acts in good faith. But the left decidedly is not acting in good faith. They are suppressing free speech at every opportunity they have power.

I am done protecting the rights of people who would not do the same for me. They are fascists and it is time to treat them as such.; 6/14/17, 5:26 PM
Jaq said...: Adams called the election, who else did that? I think that sticks in someone's craw.; 6/14/17, 5:28 PM
Jaq said...: It sort of sounds like suicide by cop. Some of the signs point to that, with this extra bonus message thrown in.; 6/14/17, 5:32 PM
Chuck said...: Virtually Unknown said...
Adams called the election, who else did that?

I think Adams predicted a landslide for Trump. And in fact, Trump scraped out what was one of the narrowest elections in a lifetime. Losing the popular vote and squeezing out some of the tightest races ever in Pennsylvania, Michigan and Wisconsin.

The mainstream pollsters were closer to being right, than Adams.; 6/14/17, 5:32 PM
Chuck said...: Francisco D said...
...
Leftism is a serious mental disorder. It probably got left out of the DSM-V for political reasons.

I think I am pretty much in agreement with you!

And it would not be the first time something was left out of the DSM for political reasons, right?; 6/14/17, 5:34 PM
Birkel said...: Leftists will start quoting the Southern Poverty Law Center that Representative Scalise was a hatemonger. Or, at least I wouldn't bet against it.; 6/14/17, 5:38 PM
AllenS said...: Meade said...
@Allen S, we're trying to reduce the number of personal attacks in the comments. Would appreciate your help and everyone's help.

Too funny, Meade. Maybe you haven't been paying attention the last couple of days, if not the last multiple years, but personal attacks are half of the comments.

But, you delete away. You da man.; 6/14/17, 5:43 PM
khesanh0802 said...: You wonder when, or if, the Dems are going to connect the dots between their "resistance" and incipient violence. Griffin's head shot; the assassination of a presidential look alike at the Public Theater; now the shooting of a bunch of guys at baseball practice. Do the Dems really think that their campaign has no effect on the wacko's of the world?; 6/14/17, 5:45 PM
tcrosse said...: I am a witless Althouse Hillbilly and I should go fuck myself. There. I saved somebody a post.; 6/14/17, 5:47 PM
robother said...: Rachel Maddow acknowledging her role in radicalizing the shooter? Odds of that are about equal to Chuck acknowledging that the shooter was radicalized. The Never Trumpers are, if anything, more invested in the notion that Trump=Hitler than the Bernie Bro Left. (See,e.g., Douthat and Brooks, NYTimes.); 6/14/17, 5:49 PM
Anonymous said...: He wasn't radicalized by the media, he was normalized.; 6/14/17, 5:49 PM
Ken B said...: What about the impersonal attacks? "Hillbillies " for example.; 6/14/17, 5:50 PM
khesanh0802 said...: Aw come on, Chuck. The mainstream pollsters had Hillary favored by an overwhelming margin. Adams said Trump would win and Trump did. The MSM was wrong, Adams was right. It really is that simple.

A nonsense post like yours at 5:32 "The mainstream pollsters were closer to being right, than Adams." is reason enough for no one ever to pay attention to you. It's like someone saying the Falcons were closer to winning the Super Bowl because they were ahead 28-3. In politics, football, and life it's the final score that counts. Adams was right! Practice saying that.; 6/14/17, 5:51 PM
Darrell said...: I visited the NYT's election site at 9AM on the day after the election, and with 99%+ of the votes on the United States counted, Trump was ahead by around 1.1 million votes in the popular totals. So could somebody tell me how Hillary could have picked up 5 million votes to pull 4 million ahead? And Trump pick up no additional votes? I seem to recall that the AP and their stringers were doing the additional vote count because counties did not bother (or wanted to avoid the cost) when the outcome was already determined. Is that true? Since the AP supported Hillary and would want to fuel the "resistance," are we to believe that Hillary won the popular vote? Why? Because AP did it before for past elections?; 6/14/17, 5:51 PM
Chuck said...: I'll say this, and I'll be that I can get pretty close to 100% agreement. I am surprised that no one has already written it. Maybe it is just too obvious.

But if this shooter had been a member of a local Tea Party, and was a Hannity fan, and a Limbaugh listener, and if he had shot up the Democrats' baseball practice (going on at the exact same time, at another field, I have read), the avalanche of MSM stories blaming Trump personally and Trumpism generally would be... well there isn't enough bandwidth in the world for what they'd put out.

I am watching the Fox News Channel's best program (Special Report, usually hosted by Bret Baier but tonight hosted by the eminently able Chris Wallace), and they are downright circumspect about making any grand political presumptions about this story.; 6/14/17, 5:52 PM
Birkel said...: What?

Members of the Establishment don't want all the stupid bumpkin Hillbillies to get the right idea, even on a show led by notable Leftist Chris Wallace, whose father is a Leftist too?

The deuce you say!; 6/14/17, 5:54 PM
Fen said...: Chuck: "losing the popular vote"

Can we stop reinforcing that nonsense? Trump couldn't lose the popular vote because it wasn't in play.

If the popular vote had mattered, Trump would have spent time and money in California, Democrats in known red states would have gone to the polls, etc. And the popular vote tallies would have been completely different than they are today.

It's a false narrative and Republicans should be wise enough to stop breathing life into it.; 6/14/17, 5:59 PM
Chuck said...: khesanh0802 said...
Aw come on, Chuck. The mainstream pollsters had Hillary favored by an overwhelming margin. Adams said Trump would win and Trump did. The MSM was wrong, Adams was right. It really is that simple.

A nonsense post like yours at 5:32 "The mainstream pollsters were closer to being right, than Adams." is reason enough for no one ever to pay attention to you. It's like someone saying the Falcons were closer to winning the Super Bowl because they were ahead 28-3. In politics, football, and life it's the final score that counts. Adams was right! Practice saying that.

We can skip any personal name-calling and stick to the merits. Yours is a point that Professor Althouse has made in fact. That the pollsters blew the 2016 presidential race.

But they didn't. The national electorate was called almost exactly. Clinton won, 48% to 46%. It was easily within the margin of error. There were three surprise results (PA, MI and WI) in states where the polls (and especially the internal polls) knew things would be very tight.

What I am not saying is that Trump didn't really win the electoral college. Or that we should diminish the Trump presidency because he didn't win the popular vote, which has no legal meaning.

But we are talking about polls (which also don't determine election results). And the polls were mostly right.; 6/14/17, 5:59 PM
HT said...: Presumably this man was just as "unstable" as Pizzagate Edgar, who (also presumably) was radicalized by media.; 6/14/17, 6:01 PM
Fen said...: Not even, Chuck. Your polls also predicted an EC landslide by Hillary. 400+; 6/14/17, 6:01 PM
David Begley said...: "Obstruction of Justice."

First words tonight out of the mouth of Chris Matthews. Less than 12 hours.; 6/14/17, 6:01 PM
Fen said...: Lol 300+ not 400. Autocorrect hates me.; 6/14/17, 6:02 PM
Achilles said...: Chuck said...

I think Adams predicted a landslide for Trump. And in fact, Trump scraped out what was one of the narrowest elections in a lifetime. Losing the popular vote and squeezing out some of the tightest races ever in Pennsylvania, Michigan and Wisconsin.

Trump did win a landslide. We have an electoral college because the founders didn't want states like California who let the entire country of Mexico come vote in their election to dominate politics in this country.

That is a garbage narrative and it is only pushed by leftists. Oh wait...; 6/14/17, 6:10 PM
victoria said...: Seriously, Fen? Seriously? FOX is as much a hate site as MSNBC is. Hate talk? I've seen more hate talk come out of Trump's mouth in the last year as anyone else. I think that he has been so mean and so nasty that now people just think it's ok to be a jerk. If anyone is to blame for "Hate speak" it is him and the super right wing of the Republican Party.

I think Trump is having a big sigh of relief that this is taking the heat off of Sessions and his horrendous performance yesterday.

Vicki from Pasadena; 6/14/17, 6:11 PM
Fen said...: Jimmy, of course not be we are no longer playing by those rules, we are holding the Left to their own rules. It's the only way to get them to stop cheating and play by the principles you espouse.

Is there any doubt that if the shooter was a life long Rush Limbaugh fan, he wouldn't already be yanked off the air?

You have to make the bully hurt to get him to stop. And yanking MSNBC off the air would bring an abrupt stop to other liberal outlets inciting violence. And not just in this instance - their distorted coverage of the BLM shootings was directly responsible for the assassinations of several police officers.

You want to take the high road, that's fine. We'll do the dirty work. But while you are up there, take a look around at all the forgotten headstones of men who gave their lives for principle and accomplished nothing.; 6/14/17, 6:16 PM
Jim at said...: "If anyone is to blame for "Hate speak" it is him and the super right wing of the Republican Party."

Republicans get shot by a leftist chock full of hate. And it's the Republicans' fault.

Got it.

You have absolutely no clue as to what's coming if you keep up this bullshit.
Not one clue.; 6/14/17, 6:17 PM
Jaq said...: Victoria, if you took a few deep breaths and read your comments again, you might detect a little anger and hatred.; 6/14/17, 6:19 PM
alan markus said...: Scott Adams "Trump Landslide" prediction was something he was doing back in 2015, before the primaries. He based it on the "persuasion factor" advantage that Trump had. In 2016, he revised his prediction to take into account that Clinton's professional handlers had narrowed the persuasion gap. Scott Adams was not basing his predictions on any polls - just his theory of persuasion.; 6/14/17, 6:21 PM
Fen said...: Vicki provide examples of Trump's hateful rhetoric ("enforce immigration law" does not count).

Spotlight which examples merit killing him.

And link any of his "hateful" rhetoric to violence from right-wing activists.

You are not allowed to use anonymous sources, or fake news from left wing media agitators like the NYTs or WaPo. Video proof or it did not happen.

And when you are done trying, do the same for FOX. I'm sure there must be pics of Greta sawing off Pelosi's head, yes?; 6/14/17, 6:23 PM
Fen said...: Vicki, how pathetic. A man is fighting for his life in ICU as we speak and you assume Trump is happy because it takes heat from your fake investigation off him.

Do you not see how much that says about you? What a nasty woman you must be.; 6/14/17, 6:26 PM
Fen said...: You really should see a shrink. You've got issues.; 6/14/17, 6:27 PM
exiledonmainstreet, green-eyed devil said...: Vicki you are a ghoul.

What a hateful, heartless woman you are.; 6/14/17, 6:31 PM
Fen said...: Also, where have you been? In a drawer with the other sick puppets? Wouldn't it be funny if all these jerks were just one poster without a life?; 6/14/17, 6:32 PM
HoodlumDoodlum said...: Who would have guessed loudly libertarian-leaning Adams would strongly oppose pro-Drug War Sessions? Uh, every non-idiot who knows anything about Adams and his positions, man.
Also, is there really a prescribed pro-Trump narrative on this topic already?? Did I miss a memo? How tiresome it must be to think that way, if one can really call it thinking. I can barely imagine what a lifelong commitment to such views would be like. Sad.; 6/14/17, 6:33 PM
Fen said...: Gotta say, Vicki's hateful rhetoric is just asking for a violent response, right liberals? That's how you roll, yes? Vicki is just asking for it?

Your rules.; 6/14/17, 6:34 PM
Michael K said...: I don't know what his actual convictions might have been. But a real, natural, first-rate asshole, it seems, under some circumstances.

This guy seems far less of a psychotic than the other shooters we have seen attempting mass murder. That kid in Charleston was, in my opinion as best I can tell from afar, psychotic. The school shooter in Connecticut was an obvious psychotic as was the movie theater shooter in Colorado.

This guy was an unhinged supporter of leftist politics but not psychotic from what I see. I would still like to know how he knew about that baseball practice and where it was. Thank god Scalise was there and had his capital police security. Otherwise, we might be reading about the GOP majority being dead.

The leftist hatred, and thanks Vicki for a recent example, is what set this guy off. I just hope some leftist connection did not tell him where to find the baseball practice.; 6/14/17, 6:36 PM
Jon Ericson said...: Brook-a-zine on it's way home.
Soon, Abracadabra! Pedro!; 6/14/17, 6:36 PM
holdfast said...: I hope no Republicans will try to fundraise off this - because that would be gross and vile and shit.

http://blogs.abcnews.com/thenote/2011/01/sen-sanders-sends-out-fundraising-email-citing-arizona-tragedy.html; 6/14/17, 6:37 PM
readering said...: Interesting history of domestic violence with they guy. Too bad he didn't do serious jail time for that.

Meanwhile, I read per NY Magazine and other sources that Fox News is dropping its Fair and Balanced slogan.; 6/14/17, 6:40 PM
rhhardin said...: The MSM divides the population in two: (1) people who are tired of the constant lying; and (2) people who like the constant lying. Both are angry. There's no possibility of a debate between the sides.

The effect of putting the no-debate division there is to make a continuum between the left and the shooter, instead of between the left and the shooter.

(Klavan); 6/14/17, 6:40 PM
Bill, Republic of Texas said...: David Begley said...
"Obstruction of Justice."

Yes I noticed that too with the WaPo story. They really had to rush that out to give the media, Dems and Never-Trumpers (BIRM) something to talk about and deflect from this devastating story.; 6/14/17, 6:41 PM
rhhardin said...: instead of a no-debate division between the left and the shooter.; 6/14/17, 6:42 PM
Mary said...: I think it's worth noting just a year ago Rand Paul tweeted "@Judgenap: Why do we have a Second Amendment? It's not to shoot deer. It's to shoot at the government when it becomes tyrannical!"
http://addictinginfo.com/2017/06/14/rand-paul-forgot-to-delete-tweet-calling-for-people-to-use-2nd-amendment-to-shoot-at-the-government/
You can blame the media all you want but this type of aggressive hateful talk has been going on a long time, but you ignored it because it was aimed at Obama and dems.; 6/14/17, 6:44 PM
Matt Sablan said...: I always say that it is the shooter's fault and no one else's. I stand by that, but fully expect for the right to make the left live by their rules on this. As do I. If they believe their claims about hate and incitement, then I expect them to change some things.; 6/14/17, 6:45 PM
Fen said...: Trump 304 Clinton 227; 6/14/17, 6:46 PM
Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...: Victoria, if you took a few deep breaths and read your comments again, you might detect a little anger and hatred.

I don't.

Not being a sycophant to Trump does not imply hatred. It just means not being a sycophant to Trump. Unlike the right we can objectively criticize or disbelieve - or even ridicule or ascribe less than noble motives to him - without hating. OTOH I can't recall much criticism of the right toward Obama that wasn't hateful.

Either way, it's futile for any non-Republican to comment here today as the right-wing commenters are looking to blame the attack on the left in a way that Francisco Martin Duran and Frank Eugene Corder were never blamed on the right. By about the time of the George Tiller assassination however we started to look into the connection between hateful rhetoric and action.

As for the turn of phrase in question, it's "good" if you want to stigmatize the majority of your country by proxy of the way Muslims are now excessively stigmatized.; 6/14/17, 6:46 PM
Matt Sablan said...: I was unaware baseball practice was tyrannical.; 6/14/17, 6:47 PM
Achilles said...: victoria said...
Seriously, Fen? Seriously? FOX is as much a hate site as MSNBC is. Hate talk? I've seen more hate talk come out of Trump's mouth in the last year as anyone else. I think that he has been so mean and so nasty that now people just think it's ok to be a jerk. If anyone is to blame for "Hate speak" it is him and the super right wing of the Republican Party.

I think Trump is having a big sigh of relief that this is taking the heat off of Sessions and his horrendous performance yesterday.

Don't stop Vicki. Never stop. Let your honest feelings show.; 6/14/17, 6:48 PM
Matt Sablan said...: If you didn't hear non hateful criticism of Obama, you're either lying or should consider where you hang out. Since there were people on both sides critical of him without hate.; 6/14/17, 6:49 PM
Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...: Fen's been agitating for violence all day long, I notice. No one's said anything violent or wished for it to prompt such a litany though.

A normal human response might be to feel bad for the congressional whip. Vowing retaliation against the majority of the country as a response to a lone gunman was a step too far even for those who made one of history's greatest false flags out of Herschel Grynszpan.; 6/14/17, 6:51 PM
exiledonmainstreet, green-eyed devil said...: I think ace is spot on:

Now is not the time to start yelling "Rhetoric doesn't cause violence!" 1, it almost certainly does -- a society that condones thievery will see more thieving, after all -- and 2, we cannot continue living under the "Republican rhetoric only causes violence!" rule.

A bad rule is many times worse when it is only applied against a disfavored caste.

I would rather live under a regime in which a Bad Law was applied equally to everyone than a regime in which a Bad Law is only applied against me and my friends, family, and allies.

How will the left ever learn its "rules" are vicious if the right keeps White Knighting in order to spare them of its pain?; 6/14/17, 6:54 PM
Fen said...: Uhm, reminding people that the 2nd Amendment is about our right to shoot down a tyrannical government is not "hate speech".

This is exactly what I am talking about. The Left claims Trump deserves to be murdered because of his "hateful rhetoric", and when we drill down we discover "hate speech" is "enforce immigration law" or "make America great again". Seriously, that last one was deemed to have Nazi origins and justified shooting Trump in the face, according to the Left.; 6/14/17, 6:54 PM
Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...: Another normal human response might be to wonder about how people like that get to be armed.

I doubt Wayne Lapierre will be saying anything about it, though.

Don't act against the shooter, or his tools. Collectivize a response to him against the majority of the country who are closer to his ideology than to anyone else's.

Political and violent collective retaliation due to a single individual's action. Incredible.

Not healthy. Not productive.; 6/14/17, 6:54 PM
Achilles said...: The Toothless Revolutionary said...

Not being a sycophant to Trump does not imply hatred. It just means not being a sycophant to Trump. Unlike the right we can objectively criticize or disbelieve - or even ridicule or ascribe less than noble motives to him - without hating. OTOH I can't recall much criticism of the right toward Obama that wasn't hateful.

See. Everything leftists say is not hating. Every criticism of Obama was hate. Easy peasy.

Either way, it's futile for any non-Republican to comment here today as the right-wing commenters are looking to blame the attack on the left in a way that Francisco Martin Duran and Frank Eugene Corder were never blamed on the right. By about the time of the George Tiller assassination however we started to look into the connection between hateful rhetoric and action.

You people have been systematically violent for the last year. You have supported candidates that paid activists to be violent at our rallies. The party that wants to take everyone's stuff at the point of a gun and give it to other people is just doing what they have done in numerous countries numerous times.

As for the turn of phrase in question, it's "good" if you want to stigmatize the majority of your country by proxy of the way Muslims are now excessively stigmatized.

Thank you for doing that for me. You have allied yourselves politically and functionally with another group that is an enemy of freedom. Nothing else needs be said there.; 6/14/17, 6:54 PM
David Begley said...: Wondering if WaPo would have run this fake news piece tonight if about a dozen Congressmen would have been killed today. CNN and MSNBC going nuts tonight.; 6/14/17, 6:55 PM
Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...: This is exactly what I am talking about. The Left claims Trump deserves to be murdered..

This is what I'M talking about. Three million more Americans vote for the ostensible left-wing candidate than the winner and one of a few commenters now claims they all want him murdered.

Like I said, Herschel Grynszpan territory. Kristallnacht. Collectivize and politicize the response. Punish anyone who who simply might have voted the way he did.

That's not how a normal country's citizenry acts.; 6/14/17, 6:56 PM
Jon Ericson said...: Man! Can I call them or what?; 6/14/17, 6:57 PM
Achilles said...: The Toothless Revolutionary said...

Not healthy. Not productive.

You could have just stopped with that to describe what the democrat party has done since the election they lost.; 6/14/17, 6:59 PM
dreams said...: I'm really getting worried, I think the liberal media/Dems, NeverTrumpers and the deap state Republicans are going to destroy Trump. After all the Obama and Clinton abuses and scandals the last 8 years, from the get-go it was understood that Trump was to be destroyed. We're living in a bizzaro world.; 6/14/17, 6:59 PM
Matt Sablan said...: Do you think constantlyaccusing Republicans of being like Nazis might be trying to collectivise guilt or whatever you were discussing?; 6/14/17, 7:01 PM
Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...: You people have been systematically violent for the last year.

You people? I never realized you were such a collectivist. Try seeing people as individuals, if your politics allows for it. Maybe it doesn't.

"As for the turn of phrase in question, it's "good" if you want to stigmatize the majority of your country by proxy of the way Muslims are now excessively stigmatized."

Thank you for doing that for me. You have allied yourselves politically and functionally with another group that is an enemy of freedom. Nothing else needs be said there.

I've allied myself with the constitution and the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. Muslim Americans and even non-Americans have certain rights. Human beings have rights. I don't have to like their religion or several of its doctrines but that's because I can separate people and individuals from cultural habits. The reason you can't is because you've now become the true collectivist, and in the worst way. You believe people aren't anything greater than their religious or cultural baggage - probably because you as a human being have chosen not to rise above your own baggage - and you've fashioned that inability to cope or to see the world for how it really is into your own form of politics.

Manichean. Destructive. Counter-productive. Self-defeating.; 6/14/17, 7:01 PM
Achilles said...: The Toothless Revolutionary said...

This is what I'M talking about. Three million more Americans vote for the ostensible left-wing candidate than the winner and one of a few commenters now claims they all want him murdered.

Yeah. The popular vote totals are a good rationalization for leftist violence. We should rationalize more leftist garbage because California lets Mexico vote in their state.; 6/14/17, 7:02 PM
Jon Ericson said...: Clown show's here (again), Thread's Over!; 6/14/17, 7:04 PM
Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...: You could have just stopped with that to describe what the democrat party has done since the election they lost.

Well, I believe I already have. Several times, in fact.

But I guess you must be a bigger fan of broken records than I am. If the "democrat" party can't help themselves then I certainly can't save them.

When they're willing to listen to me, let me know. Send them my phone number or whatever. I'll let 'em know what they're doing wrong. Any day now.

Until then, I don't care. I guess they're everyone's problem, and no one's. We can push for third parties, reform at local levels - tons of stuff.

But I still remain in the loyal opposition. I never signed a paper to take a day off from that.

About 20% of what Trump does I'm ok or good with. Another 20% might work out ok - it just depends on whether he can change dynamics with huge inertia/momentum behind them that he may or may not understand.

The remaining 50 - 60%? Well, you know the answer to that. I'm allowed that right as an American, no matter what other atrocity some deranged and murderous former Bernie Sanders supporter committed today.; 6/14/17, 7:04 PM
David Begley said...: Chris Hayes of MSNBC is beside himself with joy. Trump is guilty!; 6/14/17, 7:05 PM
Fen said...: MSNBC just put on an analyst who called upon ISIS to blow up Trump towers. He's going to put today's shooting in "context" for us... via AceOfSpades

You were saying, Toothless? Just kidding, I just scroll past you these days, as do most others. Please continue mumbling to yourself.

For the rest: What's the proper route to get MSNBC yanked off the air? FCC? Congress?; 6/14/17, 7:08 PM
exiledonmainstreet, green-eyed devil said...: Achilles said: "You people have been systematically violent for the last year. You have supported candidates that paid activists to be violent at our rallies."

Yes, and the liberal commenters here have been dismissive and sneering (and in Ritmo's case, positively gleeful) when the violence in Berkeley and Oakland and Evergreen has been pointed out.

Shop windows get smashed in Berkely? Ritmo jeers at us for, you know, giving a shit about property rights and free speech.

A Trump supporter gets hit over the head with a bike lock? ARM says tough shit, snowflakes; conservatives shouldn't be holding rallies in Berkeley anyway. It's that girl's fault she was raped; she shouldn't be wearing such a short skirt.

Students at Evergreen roam around with baseball bats, seeking out Wrong Thinkers. Stop your whining, Althouse hillbillies!; 6/14/17, 7:09 PM
Achilles said...: The Toothless Revolutionary said...
You people have been systematically violent for the last year.

You people? I never realized you were such a collectivist. Try seeing people as individuals, if your politics allows for it. Maybe it doesn't.

Every workplace I have been in dominated by leftists has been openly repressive towards anything right/libertarian.

Every college I have been to has been dominated by leftists and they are openly repressive towards people they disagree with.

There are stories every day of leftists on college campuses attacking people they disagree with. Evergreen is just the latest to have baseball bat wielding mobs roam the campus looking for dissenters.

The left cheered when Trump's Chicago appearance was shut down. It should have been with universal revulsion.

There are numerous examples of leftist violence at political events.

Enough. You can prevaricate all you want. Only one leftist on this site has had the guts to show actual humanity. The rest of you are disgusting.; 6/14/17, 7:11 PM
Matt Sablan said...: I wish everyone years ago would have agreed that shooters' are responsible for their own decisions. They didn't, and now the left gets to reap what they sowed.

It's sad because it just makes it harder for us to reach some sort of sanity point in the political temperature of the country. But, it might be the only way to draw the left back from accusing every shooter of being a far-right militia nutjob, no matter what the evidence.; 6/14/17, 7:11 PM
Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...: There you go, mainstreet. You prove how non-violent you are not by grieving (as if you even knew the whip), not by expressing sadness, shock, an interest in decreasing the lethality of these acts - but by collectivizing a retaliatory and politicized response.

Yes, that's how non-violent, peaceful people really are.

You remind me of the people who glommed off the hippies etc. to do "revolution", like the Ayerses, etc.

I never expressed glee about anything in Berkley. Find the comment.

Stop with the martyrdom and victimology. There are other ways to rise above this.; 6/14/17, 7:13 PM
Achilles said...: The Toothless Revolutionary said...

The remaining 50 - 60%? Well, you know the answer to that. I'm allowed that right as an American, no matter what other atrocity some deranged and murderous former Bernie Sanders supporter committed today.

Bernie Sanders himself promotes policy that would take my property, give it to whomever he decides should have it, and make me a slave to the state if I decide to work.

This ideology is only possible through violence. It makes sense his supporters are the most violent.; 6/14/17, 7:15 PM
exiledonmainstreet, green-eyed devil said...: " Try seeing people as individuals, if your politics allows for it. Maybe it doesn't. "

So says a member of the Collectivist Hive Mind.

Let's see - the shitbag would be mass murderer had FDR and Bernie icons on his FB page. He liked John Oliver and Rachel Maddow and Neil DeGrasse Tyson.

He was more like Ritmo than me - in fact, if he had been from NY I would have wondered if Ritmo had finally snapped.

Let's turn that around, though: what if the guy had fired at Dem Congressmen playing baseball and his FB page had icons of Trump and Reagan and he liked Hannity and Limbaugh?

Would Ritmo be telling us to judge the guy as an individual and not as a member of a group>

We all know the answer to that.; 6/14/17, 7:18 PM
exiledonmainstreet, green-eyed devil said...: Ritmo says: "There you go, mainstreet. You prove how non-violent you are not by grieving (as if you even knew the whip), not by expressing sadness, shock, an interest in decreasing the lethality of these acts - but by collectivizing a retaliatory and politicized response."

Why would I be shocked? I was expecting the animals on the Left to attempt murder at some point. Anybody who has paid attention to the growing violence and insanity on the Left shouldn't be shocked by this.

Damn right I'm angry. I'm angry because the Left ongoing temper tantrums are getting lethal now and this will get uglier.; 6/14/17, 7:24 PM
Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...: Every workplace I have been in dominated by leftists has been openly repressive towards anything right/libertarian.

So? That seems to say something more about the workplaces you choose than anything anyone can do about it.

Every college I have been to has been dominated by leftists and they are openly repressive towards people they disagree with.

To a degree, and that's wrong. But colleges can't be dominated by rightists because rightists are not as open to new knowledge. It would be a tautological impossibility for the ideology that doesn't believe in discovering new knowledge or behavioral options to improve humanity to work in fields devoted to discovering them without profit.

There are stories every day of leftists on college campuses attacking people they disagree with. Evergreen is just the latest to have baseball bat wielding mobs roam the campus looking for dissenters.

Well, then they'll have to deal with their law enforcement. So what? You think mobs or group intimidation in a crowd is a new thing, developed out of Lockean liberalism? Or even Marx. That's kind of funny. Try all of human history. Going to war against group behavior inc. group violence is about as progressivist and utopian a wish as they come. You could try singing Lennon's Imagine to them or Where Have All the Flowers Gone? but you might feel tainted by the way the hippies had already tried stuff like that long ago, until your side declared it a failure to even try.

The left cheered when Trump's Chicago appearance was shut down. It should have been with universal revulsion.

I don't even know what that means. I guess you're going to have to educate me on the newest predictable personal outrage experienced by Trump that I'm supposed to be intensely following. Will I get a break to go to work, spend time with my family and enjoy my life in between these debriefings?

There are numerous examples of leftist violence at political events.

There are numerous threats by Trump. I think his side seems to enjoy the prospect of it more. Maybe they could look into conflict resolution, if that sort of thing interested them.

Enough. You can prevaricate all you want. Only one leftist on this site has had the guts to show actual humanity. The rest of you are disgusting.

Sunsong sang his song. It was a nice little one. And is very pro forma. This stuff happens all the time. Once any of you start asking yourselves about the Francisco Martin Durans and the Frank Eugene Corders and the rest of the violent rightists then I'll be convinced that you actually take political violence seriously for its own sake, and not just for the sake of politics.

Until then, I'll stay interested in understanding the objective problem of this violence - rather than meaningless odes to peace and love and life and avoiding tragedy or its infliction into our politics in such a way that the majority of the hard-core right on this blog has never offered.

I didn't know the whip. Know nothing about him. Political violence is wrong in a law-abiding, decent society. Thousands of kids were shot today in some part of the country that you haven't eulogized or made a cause for togetherness out of either. What is it you're looking for, exactly?; 6/14/17, 7:24 PM
n.n said...: judge the guy as an individual and not as a member of a group

If there is principled alignment (e.g. character).

I would suggest to avoid the use of the [class] diversity (i.e. "color of skin") standard to extrapolate or infer association between people. This is a progressive standard that is a poor guide to reconciliation of moral and personal imperatives.; 6/14/17, 7:25 PM
Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...: Bernie Sanders himself promotes policy that would take my property, give it to whomever he decides should have it, and make me a slave to the state if I decide to work.

Whatever. Let's talk real world. His opponents are promoting a policy that would price 20 - 30 million out of the insurance market, which every physician agrees will cause untold thousands to die. These are real concrete consequences, not lofty rhetoric about slavery and property. And the Republicans supporting it are so ashamed and embarrassed that they even tried to bar the media from the details of the bill they were writing. So violence, and secrecy. Sounds pretty conspiratorial to me.

This ideology is only possible through violence. It makes sense his supporters are the most violent.

You're unreachable. If believing this makes you feel better then I conclude you live with too much pain and isolation from others for me to have anything human to say to you that will release you from the defensiveness and fear you've chosen to live with.; 6/14/17, 7:28 PM
David Begley said...: Jill Wine-Banks wants Congress "to come together" and impeach Trump.; 6/14/17, 7:31 PM
Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...: Why would I be shocked? I was expecting the animals on the Left to attempt murder at some point.

At some point? I can count at least three politically motivated right-wing murders and murder attempts from the Clinton administration just off the top of my head. So I guess "at some point" began for the right a long time ago. Where was your sense of collective responsibility in any of that that you demand of the majority now?

Anybody who has paid attention to the growing violence and insanity on the Left shouldn't be shocked by this.

I don't know how one gauges "growing violence and insanity." But I have watched Alex Jones. He seems pretty insane. Same with what Glenn Beck used to do before he grew up. And Mark Levin. And Michael Savage. And even in the 1990s there was this guy Bob Dornan who literally growled as a way of talking. All of them insane, and just driving the unreal right as far to the extreme of disbelief as they could.

Damn right I'm angry. I'm angry because the Left ongoing temper tantrums are getting lethal now and this will get uglier.

I think psychologists call this a "self-fulfilling prophecy."

Be a part of the solution. Politicized anger as a way to legitimize violent retribution is frankly Hodgkinson talk.; 6/14/17, 7:34 PM
Earnest Prole said...: You people have been systematically violent for the last year.

If every person to the left of center is a radical communist and every person to the right of center is a nazi fascist, then “you people” is a perfect locution.; 6/14/17, 7:34 PM
Gahrie said...: And the Republicans supporting it are so ashamed and embarrassed that they even tried to bar the media from the details of the bill they were writing.

So the Republicans were trying to refuse to allow their enemies in the MSM to see the details of the bill they are writing to repeal a law that was so bad the democrats didn't even allow the members of Congress that were voting on it to read until after it passed?; 6/14/17, 7:35 PM
Michael K said...: "the right-wing commenters are looking to blame the attack on the left "

Who else, Ritmo, the Amish ? The Mormons ?

Libertarians ? Of course its the left's hateful rhetoric which has been over the top since the election!

This guy was not crazy but he was as radical as you are and ready to act on his impulses.; 6/14/17, 7:36 PM
Achilles said...: Once any of you start asking yourselves about the Francisco Martin Durans and the Frank Eugene Corders and the rest of the violent rightists then I'll be convinced that you actually take political violence seriously for its own sake, and not just for the sake of politics.

Absolute garbage.

Durans:

"Duran pleaded not guilty and mounted an insanity defense, claiming that he was trying to save the world by destroying an alien "mist", connected by an umbilical cord to an alien in the Colorado mountains. Prosecutors stated he was faking insanity and called more than 60 witnesses to testify that Duran hated government in general and President Clinton in particular.

...

No one was harmed in the assassination attempt."

Corder:

"Friends claim he bore no ill will towards President Bill Clinton and likely only wanted the publicity of the stunt, based largely on his sentiments towards Mathias Rust's flight of a Cessna 172 from Finland to Moscow, USSR. The President was not even in the mansion at the time due to renovations, but was instead staying at Blair House.

Corder stole the Cessna on the night of September 11 and departed from Aldino Airport in Maryland while severely intoxicated, which is presumed to have led to his later miscalculation."

They were definitely part of a deeper movement. I am sure you will have a hard time finding people here to denounce these idiots/nutbags.

Meanwhile I can g to the NYT's right now and find comments with thousands of upvotes saying Scalise deserved to get shot. I have already posted a half dozen.; 6/14/17, 7:37 PM
E Willers said...: Toothless, you know we can check your lies, right? Frank Eugene Corder had no strong political views and did not bear ill will toward Clinton. He wanted the notoriety of Matthias Rust. And Duran, in addition to conservative political leanings, thought he was saving the world from an alien mist.; 6/14/17, 7:38 PM
Anonymous said...: I've noticed how active and animated Achilles and Fen have been on these three threads dealing with the shooting today. They're in their element and that's not a compliment. The planning of the coming War on Liberals has given them their purpose for today.; 6/14/17, 7:38 PM
Anonymous said...: Not even mentioning their obnoxious moral preening.; 6/14/17, 7:40 PM
Sebastian said...: "they are downright circumspect about making any grand political presumptions about this story" The left fights, the right is "circumspect." Even when a guy who wants to "Terminate the Republican Party" shows he means it.; 6/14/17, 7:42 PM
Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...: "the right-wing commenters are looking to blame the attack on the left "

Who else, Ritmo, the Amish ? The Mormons ?

Well, you could try blaming it on him - if collectivization was less of an impulse for you.

This guy was not crazy but he was as radical as you are and ready to act on his impulses.

I am not radical. Sanders' positions are supported by a greater majority of Americans than Clintons' or Trump's positions combined.

I do not share his impulses. I never imagined killing any of you crazy nutters. I just write passionately about things I believe in and things that bother me. I would never go off and gun down people peacefully playing baseball - or doing anything peaceful. Or even doing anything that might threaten me, unless I had unimpeachable evidence of a clear and present danger to my life or limb. I still live in a big city. Plenty of impulsive and wild and oftentimes even vaguely aggressive stances going on all the time. I brush it off. I've been in a scuffle or two, never one I've initiated, though. I just don't believe in it. I believe you can't credibly believe in self-defense (as I passionately do) if you're unwilling to restrain yourself and keep yourself from initiating or even falling prey to an unchecked impulse in a gray area. The saying about seeing the whites of their eyes applies to identifying the clearest and most present dangers of a threat. Not the decent life that the psychopath today attacked.; 6/14/17, 7:43 PM
E Willers said...: Toothless, the opportunity for you lefties to turn this around is passing. You really won't like what will happen what comes next.; 6/14/17, 7:46 PM
Sebastian said...: Jesse Benn: "For violent resistance to work it'd need to be organized. Individual acts can be understandable, but likely counterproductive/ineffective."Strategic thinking from the left: the problem with poorly aimed terror is that it is ineffective. Organized violent resistance, Creamer/antifa squared, is what's needed.

I'm sure the FBI's Top Men are on the case.; 6/14/17, 7:48 PM
Anonymous said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 6/14/17, 7:48 PM
Achilles said...: The Toothless Revolutionary said...

Whatever. Let's talk real world. His opponents are promoting a policy that would price 20 - 30 million out of the insurance market, which every physician agrees will cause untold thousands to die. These are real concrete consequences, not lofty rhetoric about slavery and property. And the Republicans supporting it are so ashamed and embarrassed that they even tried to bar the media from the details of the bill they were writing. So violence, and secrecy. Sounds pretty conspiratorial to me.

The free market would provide more health care to more people at a lower cost than government controlled health care will. Corrective eye and cosmetic surgery get cheaper and more available every day. Anyone who pushes government control of health care is trying to make it harder and more expensive to get health care.

Obamacare has already priced 20 million people out of insurance. It is crushing millions more. I talk to them every day. Lets talk about how over 90% of jobs created since 2010 when it passed are part time to avoid the coverage requirements.

Real world? Socialists have killed over a hundred million people in the last century or so. Bernie is no different. He just says what he has to say when his supporters attack political opponents.; 6/14/17, 7:49 PM
Achilles said...: The Toothless Revolutionary said...

I am not radical. Sanders' positions are supported by a greater majority of Americans than Clintons' or Trump's positions combined.

Absolute bullshit. No majority thinks venezuela or cuba are a good role model. You are absolutely delusional if you think Socialism is popular or possible in this country.; 6/14/17, 7:51 PM
Anonymous said...: And blaming this on mainstream media is sick. Freedom of the Press is vital to democracy. What hypocrites you are, you don't value freedom at all, you want an army of sychophantic Trumpists.; 6/14/17, 7:52 PM
Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...: That sounds like a threat, E Willers. You should learn to take responsibility for doing things like that.

There is nothing to "turn around." A psychopath shot some people. Again, happens every day - and the right blames that on the left, also. Never on policies that they favor or could stand to rethink. His workplace showed their solidarity, his political boss gave a nice speech, and the quick wits and good deeds of law enforcement were rightly thanked - they probably saved a few lives, too. There is no collective apology that you're owed by your political enemies, because they weren't organizing this. I didn't know the guy, no politician knew the guy - he was on his own, and now he paid his price. I don't know what the political outcome was or will be because I don't care. I don't see anything political in it. It's just another human tragedy.

But those collectivizing and politicizing it might need to see something political in it; and I can see that there are plenty of those on the right and the left.

This country is insane. Count me out of that game.; 6/14/17, 7:52 PM
Anonymous said...: Mary: I think it's worth noting just a year ago Rand Paul tweeted "@Judgenap: Why do we have a Second Amendment? It's not to shoot deer. It's to shoot at the government when it becomes tyrannical!"
http://addictinginfo.com/2017/06/14/rand-paul-forgot-to-delete-tweet-calling-for-people-to-use-2nd-amendment-to-shoot-at-the-government/
You can blame the media all you want but this type of aggressive hateful talk has been going on a long time, but you ignored it because it was aimed at Obama and dems.

Perhaps you could enlighten us on exactly why this is "worth noting" in the current context. How does Rand Paul's pointing out the purpose of the 2nd amendment constitute "hate speech" directed at "Obama and the dems"? To the best of my knowledge, Paul's support of the 2nd amendment long predates Obama, and if you think his invoking the 2nd amendment as a bulwark against the depredations of wannabe tyrants is "aggressive hateful talk", the history of the American founding and the founders themselves must give you the vapors.

So apparently, according to you, supporting the individual citizen's right to bear arms is "hateful", in and of itself. Do tell, what else in the Bill of Rights strikes you as "hateful and aggressive"?; 6/14/17, 7:55 PM
Achilles said...: Inga said...
I've noticed how active and animated Achilles and Fen have been on these three threads dealing with the shooting today. They're in their element and that's not a compliment. The planning of the coming War on Liberals has given them their purpose for today.

Par for the course from the left. It is all our fault. Scalise deserved it. I can find thousands of you that are saying it.

It is always our fault when leftist thugs get all thuggy.; 6/14/17, 7:55 PM
Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...: Absolute bullshit. No majority thinks venezuela or cuba are a good role model. You are absolutely delusional if you think Socialism is popular or possible in this country.

You are delusional (and economically illiterate) if you think absolute controlled or absolute free markets exist anywhere. In every country there is basically some mixed economy. Venezuela (a petro-state) and Cuba aren't countries that Americans advocate to be like because those countries are autocracies or tyrannies; things that Western Europe is not.

You are listening to too much AM radio and FOX. No one advocates to be like them. Occasionally people like Michael Moore point out the irony of what Cuba did despite everything it lacks, but that is not the same as advocating to be like it any more than a vegetarian is advocating to be like Hitler. (Because Hitler was, you know, a vegetarian).; 6/14/17, 7:56 PM
Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...: The free market would provide more health care to more people at a lower cost than government controlled health care will. Corrective eye and cosmetic surgery get cheaper and more available every day. Anyone who pushes government control of health care is trying to make it harder and more expensive to get health care.

We already had this discussion off your same talking point and you capitulated then. I'm done talking to a wall. A think tanker has more of anything interesting to say in sympathy with this talking point than you do. And even they would be cornered in it.

You can lead a whore to culture but you can't make her think.; 6/14/17, 7:57 PM
Earnest Prole said...: So could somebody tell me how Hillary could have picked up 5 million votes to pull 4 million ahead?

Darrell, Clinton's popular-vote surplus came entirely from California, where the big-city Democrats vote absentee and the ballots are counted in the days following the election.; 6/14/17, 7:58 PM
Michael said...: "There is nothing to "turn around." A psychopath shot some people. Again, happens every day...."

Ah, all those legislators across the country shot daily by their psychopathic political adversaries. No cause for alarm. Collectively speaking.; 6/14/17, 7:59 PM
Anonymous said...: "Par for the course from the left. It is all our fault. Scalise deserved it. I can find thousands of you that are saying."

Bullshit. Complete hysterical bullshit.; 6/14/17, 8:01 PM
Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...: Ah, all those legislators across the country shot daily by their psychopathic political adversaries.

So you think this Hodgkinson koo-koo was a political "adversary?" I guess thats one way to dumb down the entire meaning of the word.; 6/14/17, 8:02 PM
Achilles said...: Inga said...

Bullshit. Complete hysterical bullshit.

All yours.

"I condemn this violence unreservedly. But as GOP members bemoan their inability to go about a sacred America ritual without fearing for their lives, I must point out that the vast majority of Americans cannot now go to bed, or get up in the morning, or go to work without the threat of GOP cruelty hanging over them. My Medicare! My Social Security! My country once more to be dragged into a war of political and profiteering convenience! Let's have some proportionality here! And let's have some civilized gun safety laws."

3438 likes so far

"My thoughts and best wishes go to all injured.

Congressman Scalise, let something good come out of this tragedy. Let your Website, instead of "Congressman Scalise's pro-gun stance has earned him an A+ rating from the National Rifle Association, say "Congressman Scalise's anti-gun stance earned him an F rating from National Rifle Association.'"

2498 likes so far

"some guy was enjoying his second amendment rights AND multiple trained men with guns were NOT able to stop a guy with a gun..."

2198 likes so far; 6/14/17, 8:07 PM
Achilles said...: The Toothless Revolutionary said...

We already had this discussion off your same talking point and you capitulated then. I'm done talking to a wall. A think tanker has more of anything interesting to say in sympathy with this talking point than you do. And even they would be cornered in it.

You can lead a whore to culture but you can't make her think.

You are making shit up now. Good to know you understand how untenable your position is.

Nobody wants socialism except people who are willing to take other peoples stuff by force. Period.; 6/14/17, 8:12 PM
Anonymous said...: Absolutely NOTHING wrong with what that person said Achilles, you and Fen have said far worse. You finding some fault in his statement is telling. It's your disordered thinking that finds some fault in it. They aren't saying they deserved to be shot, that's your sick twisted take on it.

Achilles said...
"Par for the course from the left. It is all our fault. Scalise deserved it. I can find thousands of you that are saying."; 6/14/17, 8:13 PM
Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...: So Achilles?

You basically said it's wrong for citizens to think that the threats to their lives - from Republican policy to price them out of the insurance market or to make guns (and the crimes committed with them) more freely available - are just as worthy issues of concern.

The citizens have just as much a right to worry about their lives and the way they're threatened as you have to worry about Scalise.

The congress people are not more important than anyone else. They're equally important. I think what upsets you is that it's Republican policy that makes gun crime so much higher in this country than nearly every other one. Instead of responsibly acknowledging that, you desperately politicize people who want to decrease that and have come to see acts like these - no matter whom they're committed against - as predictable. Because of policy. Not politics. Hundreds of gun murders across America every day lack the political impact of this one, so stop belittling them because as victims they're not as "important" as a congressional whip.; 6/14/17, 8:15 PM
Achilles said...: The Toothless Revolutionary said...

You are delusional (and economically illiterate) if you think absolute controlled or absolute free markets exist anywhere. In every country there is basically some mixed economy. Venezuela (a petro-state) and Cuba aren't countries that Americans advocate to be like because those countries are autocracies or tyrannies; things that Western Europe is not.

Cuba and Venezuela are still held up by leftists in this country as positive examples. They are what socialism become every single time it is tried and allowed to proceed to it's end.

You are listening to too much AM radio and FOX. No one advocates to be like them. Occasionally people like Michael Moore point out the irony of what Cuba did despite everything it lacks, but that is not the same as advocating to be like it any more than a vegetarian is advocating to be like Hitler. (Because Hitler was, you know, a vegetarian).

Hitler was also a Socialist. It is what socialism becomes every time except for one. The difference there was the US Army already occupied that space.; 6/14/17, 8:17 PM
Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...: Nobody wants socialism except people who are willing to take other peoples stuff by force. Period.

Trust me, no one wants your stuff. I can tell by that picture that your net worth probably couldn't feed an Ethiopian child.

Stop flattering yourself. You make a fool of yourself and all that you could stand to learn about tax policy, insurance and medicine - which could fill a couple universities. If you had the motivation and wits to do so.; 6/14/17, 8:18 PM
Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...: Cuba and Venezuela are still held up by leftists in this country as positive examples. They are what socialism become every single time it is tried and allowed to proceed to it's end.

A broken record obsessed with two countries because an entire continent of counter-examples (already referred to him) is too complex for him to understand.

Hitler was also a Socialist. It is what socialism becomes every time except for one. The difference there was the US Army already occupied that space.

Hitler was many things - (as is Trump), but apparently its his economic policy that really gets under your skin!

Enlighten me. Precisely what WAS Hitler's economic policy?

I'm getting tired of debating a self-righteous ignoramus talking-points spewer.; 6/14/17, 8:20 PM
madAsHell said...: You know.....I fail to understand why anyone engages TTR. It just gives him another chance to spew.; 6/14/17, 8:23 PM
Earnest Prole said...: Here’s a great idea: why doesn’t everyone calm the fuck down and stop acting like politics is their new religion.; 6/14/17, 8:23 PM
Big Mike said...: A quick question for you, Toothless. How many gun crimes are committed with legally owned and acquired guns? And I mean legally owned a acquired by the perpetrator of the crime (rules out Sandy Hook because the guns were legally owned by his mother, not by Adam Lanza).

If the authorities are not going to get serious about getting illegal guns off he streets, why should any of us who are concerned about self defense pay the slightest attention to calls for gun control?; 6/14/17, 8:25 PM
Fen said...: Inga: "I've noticed -"

Coming from the woman who said she would enjoy watching conservatives getting beat down with bicycle locks all day long.

You really don't have a leg to stand on. You invited the violence, gleefully encoraged it. You reap what you sow.; 6/14/17, 8:26 PM
Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...: How many gun crimes are committed with legally owned and acquired guns? And I mean legally owned a acquired by the perpetrator of the crime (rules out Sandy Hook because the guns were legally owned by his mother, not by Adam Lanza).

It's a moot point. The high rate is caused by high availability and proliferation - for which there are many loopholes. Ultimately nearly every gun was originally legal, unless you're claiming a high rate of illicit import.

If the authorities are not going to get serious about getting illegal guns off he streets, why should any of us who are concerned about self defense pay the slightest attention to calls for gun control?

Well, maybe they should - and gun buyback programs, etc. are fine starts. But they should also close loopholes at the gun shows, straw purchases, all sorts of things that the NRA works tooth and nail to stop from happening. They've even preserved no-fly listed terrorists rights to purchase, right?

Defang the NRA if you really want to see some progress started. Are their positions really popular with gun owners, anyway?; 6/14/17, 8:29 PM
E Willers said...: Inga,

Rather than worry about elements, your time would be better spent reflecting on how you have contributed to the tribal hate on the left.

Toothless,

Do you feel threatened by having your complicity in the violence of your tribe pointed out? You can attempt to deflect away, but you have long-since established what you are.; 6/14/17, 8:31 PM
Anonymous said...: "Coming from the woman who said she would enjoy watching conservatives getting beat down with bicycle locks all day long.

You really don't have a leg to stand on. You invited the violence, gleefully encoraged it. You reap what you sow."

Are you insane? I have no earthly idea what you are referring to.; 6/14/17, 8:34 PM
iowan2 said...: I heard some generic Democrat say that the shooting was a terrorist attack. My instant thought was, 'he is home grown and had to radicalized, by who? Yep, I said, MSNBC, CNN, NYT.

This explains what happened perfectly. I challenge anyone to differentiate between the DC shooter, and the Pulse Nightclub shooter.; 6/14/17, 8:34 PM
traditionalguy said...: Everybody is seeing this wrong.

The gun is to blame. That and the Virginia gun laws which allowi concealed carry of long guns .

That long gun is very lucky that Capitol Police owned guns stopped the evil long gun from slaughtering an entire baseball team. But it would have been self defense, since Baseball teams are evil bats that smash innocent balls.; 6/14/17, 8:35 PM
Achilles said...: The Toothless Revolutionary said...
So Achilles?

You basically said it's wrong for citizens to think that the threats to their lives - from Republican policy to price them out of the insurance market or to make guns (and the crimes committed with them) more freely available - are just as worthy issues of concern.

The citizens have just as much a right to worry about their lives and the way they're threatened as you have to worry about Scalise.

The congress people are not more important than anyone else. They're equally important. I think what upsets you is that it's Republican policy that makes gun crime so much higher in this country than nearly every other one. Instead of responsibly acknowledging that, you desperately politicize people who want to decrease that and have come to see acts like these - no matter whom they're committed against - as predictable. Because of policy. Not politics. Hundreds of gun murders across America every day lack the political impact of this one, so stop belittling them because as victims they're not as "important" as a congressional whip.

For there to be a free society there needs to be a populace where the overwhelming majority of people can be trusted to do the right thing when nobody is looking. We need to be able to walk down the street without constant police presence. Individual liberty also requires the relationship between the individual and the state to be clear. Individual > State.

Individuals and doctors will make better decisions than bureaucrats who team up with insurance companies every time. Period.

Individuals have an unalienable right to self defense and a right to the means to defend that right.

Individuals will work harder and apply their property more efficiently than a government that takes their stuff from them.

But the left is purposely tearing the foundations of our liberal society down. They are demanding open borders and importation of unassimilable populations. They are attacking people they disagree with. They are pushing an untouchable bureaucracy that rules as judge jury and executioner with no recourse or due process. They want confiscatory tax rates.

Now when an obvious leftist starts shooting at political opponents you go for gun control. And this is just one of a string of dozens/hundreds of politically motivated attacks by the left in the last year.

It is clear and obvious what will happen to us if we are not armed. Your little leftist thugs will attack us just like they have in dozens of countries and we will end up just like Cuba. You people make it clear you do not respect us or our freedom. You try to take it at every opportunity.; 6/14/17, 8:35 PM
Anonymous said...: E Wilers, your time would be better spent not trying to propagate bullshit.; 6/14/17, 8:36 PM
Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...: Do you feel threatened by having your complicity in the violence of your tribe pointed out? You can attempt to deflect away, but you have long-since established what you are.

Apparently you're threatening me, I'm not complicit in anything (unless you believe in collectivism/collective punishments) and I'm part of no "tribe" that you've identified. The idea that someone as ridiculous as you wants to tell me "what I am" just shows how inept you are at figuring people out, let alone making a point devoid of ad hominems and collective association.

Perhaps your own tribe wouldn't exist if it couldn't collectivize others.

I'm happy to shut down your personal attacks, though. Do let me know when you bother to make a substantive point.; 6/14/17, 8:37 PM
Francisco D said...: Chuck wrote: "And it would not be the first time something was left out of the DSM for political reasons, right?"

Absolutely correct.

The scientific basis of modern cognitive-behavioral Psychology had to withstand the well meaning Freudian idiots. Now we have lost the battle to political correctness. I am retiring in a few months and feel sorry for those who stay in the field.; 6/14/17, 8:38 PM
Fen said...: "A psychopath - "

I don't think so. I think there was little difference between him and Ritmo, Inga, Kathy Griffin, the Shakespeare in the park cast, the Hamilton cast, the antifa goons, etc. The only difference between these people and the shooter is opprtunity. If they had nothing left to live for, I think each would have gleefully fired into the crowd of republican congressmen.

Just look at all the liberals cheerleading the shooter on Twitter. Are all these people psychopaths? No, and as someone mentioned upthread, politics has become their religion, and they've been having a crisis of faith for 7 months now.

The shooter was not a psychopath, he was your typical unhinged liberal radicalized by the constant Two Minute Hate of the MSM.; 6/14/17, 8:38 PM
Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...: Nice manifesto, Mr 8:35 PM. I do hope it wasn't written with a shoelace in a prison somewhere - or even one of your own making.

Let me know when you're done with the speeches and ready to address a rationally made, factually based point.

Thanks.

We need to have talks like this more often, Dad.; 6/14/17, 8:39 PM
EsoxLucius said...: Please tone down the rhetoric on both sides. Remember when it was said Jared Lee Loughner had political motives for shooting Gabrielle Giffords, only to have two medical evaluations diagnose him with paranoid schizophrenia and incompetent to stand trial? Tread softy when you don't know all the facts.; 6/14/17, 8:41 PM
Achilles said...: The Toothless Revolutionary said...

It's a moot point. The high rate is caused by high availability and proliferation - for which there are many loopholes. Ultimately nearly every gun was originally legal, unless you're claiming a high rate of illicit import.

It is not a moot point. The overwhelming majority of gun violence committed in this country is committed by democrat voters in inner cities.

Democrat voters. It is not even arguable. But because democrat voters shoot each other in inner cities the left wants to stop their political opponents from being armed.

It is not hard to guess the true intentions of such policy.; 6/14/17, 8:41 PM
Anonymous said...: "Just look at all the liberals cheerleading the shooter on Twitter. Are all these people psychopaths? No, and as someone mentioned upthread, politics has become their religion, and they've been having a crisis of faith for 7 months now"

There are no liberals cheerleading the shooter on Twitter, more bullshit. You sound like the psychopath.; 6/14/17, 8:42 PM
Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...: I think there was little difference between him and Ritmo, Inga, Kathy Griffin, the Shakespeare in the park cast, the Hamilton cast, the antifa goons, etc.

Practicing psychiatry without a license is illegal. I'd contact your state board right away about that problem of yours.

(Make sure to show them all your violent war wishes from the last thread, too).

Fen the Collectivist. Who knew. Make sure you identify logic as one of your enemies, too. Logic is really out to get you. Right up there with "antifa", whatever that means.

The Hamilton cast! Hahahaha. Play productions! Get the play productions! Egads!; 6/14/17, 8:43 PM
Achilles said...: The Toothless Revolutionary said...
Nice manifesto, Mr 8:35 PM. I do hope it wasn't written with a shoelace in a prison somewhere - or even one of your own making.

Let me know when you're done with the speeches and ready to address a rationally made, factually based point.

Pathetic. You are getting crushed at every point in this argument. You can't even respond. I am taking your posts apart line by line.

Next will come the personal attacks.; 6/14/17, 8:43 PM
Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...: It is not hard to guess the true intentions of such policy.

Um.. less deaths?

But alas, unlike you I do not pose as mind-reader Karnak the Magnificent.

If only I could throw all reason out the window and just read minds - especially in such a way as to feed my own paranoias. Then I'd be as in the dark as you, I guess.; 6/14/17, 8:44 PM
Matt Sablan said...: "There are no liberals cheerleading the shooter on Twitter, more bullshit."

-- There are. I saw many on Reddit too. It doesn't mean that they're in anyway a reflection on most liberals or any individual liberal.

But, Republicans have learned that's not how the rules work for them, so expect them to ask for a bit of consistency.; 6/14/17, 8:44 PM
Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...: Pathetic. You are getting crushed at every point in this argument. You can't even respond. I am taking your posts apart line by line.

You're not even making any points, actually. But perhaps the steroids and other botanicals have convinced you otherwise.

Just because this line of yours was a talking point, doesn't mean it was any less of a speech.

Have you ever considered writing copy for a Republican candidate on the stump? You're really good at it!

Having a conversation? Not so much.; 6/14/17, 8:46 PM
Left Bank of the Charles said...: Democrats know they can't all be trusted with guns, why do you think they advocate gun control? Maybe this shooter could have cleared a proper background check, but maybe he couldn't have. Maybe he owned the guns he used before he went off the edge, maybe he bought them after. It's sad.; 6/14/17, 8:48 PM
wildswan said...: I have this toast image for mobs - that in the front of a mob is a thin crust of violent people who will commit violence of speech or action. And behind this thin crust is a much thicker line of "soft" people who are really mostly just standing there. I think it's better to respond to the large group who don't support violence - although no conservative should be under any illusions about what will happen to them if the violent people in the front of a lefty mob get hold of them.

Tonight Rachel Maddow will appear on television chuckling beneath shocked-face as she thinks about how much she can get in her next round of contract negotiations, thanks to this flyover loser. And Maddow's pathetic deluded listener who believed what she said will be lying dead in Virginia. But beyond these two there are millions. We now have a chance to get them to see why they should close the Julius Caesar play and close Evergreen college because the millions do not truly support gunning down Congressmen or allowing students to roam about with baseball bats. We should show how Dems and media are sleekly smiling on TV as they incite others to risk everything - college degrees, a future without a felony conviction, even their lives. Slick Maddow gets another two million a year for saying things, for words that drove fools that believed her to their death. Change the channel. Cut the fuse that is sputtering toward the gunpowder.; 6/14/17, 8:48 PM
Achilles said...: Inga said...

There are no liberals cheerleading the shooter on Twitter, more bullshit. You sound like the psychopath.

Lets look at some left wing twitter today:

Malcolm Harris ✔ @BigMeanInternet
If the shooter has a serious health condition then is taking potshots at the GOP house leadership considered self defense?

It's a shame more Republicans didn't get shot

Markos Moulitsas ✔ @markos
Republicans are getting what they want.

Disgusting movement.; 6/14/17, 8:49 PM
Francisco D said...: Ritmo wrote: "I think psychologists call this a "self-fulfilling prophecy."

You are clueless and should avoid phrases that you do not comprehend.

You are so far away from understanding that concept that it was worth the laugh. Thanks.; 6/14/17, 8:51 PM
Bad Lieutenant said...: Chuck said...
Virtually Unknown said...
Adams called the election, who else did that?

I think Adams predicted a landslide for Trump. And in fact, Trump scraped out

Chuck, I don't know if I tried this analogy on you before, but you remember Hillary saying "why aren't I 50 points ahead you might ask?" What Trump did, in terms of a landslide, was to beat the spread. It was a relative landslide.

He wasn't supposed to lose, he was supposed to lose epically. Remember back when you were talking about punishing "Trumpkins" and reading them out of the party and all that? That was when you thought it was going to be like 60-30-10.

Granting that Trump benefited from Lowered Expectations, he indeed exceeded those expectations by a country mile. Nobody dreamed that it would be even close. Everybody on the left thought they'd be popping the champagne and having the firework show and breaking that glass ceiling by what, 7pm? 9?

The best part about drinking the leftist tears that Tuesday night in November was that they were such surprise tears. If Hillary had won I would have mourned the death of the Republic, but I wouldn't have been surprised. I expected to lose. They thought they had it in the bag. And so did you, if that isn't to be considered a personal remark. I think the surprise and shock has contributed to the bitterness of them, and of such as you.

The analogy that comes to mind is you finding a girl in a bar, or on a street corner, and bringing her to your place, undressing, to learn that she's a man, she's a top, and her schlong is bigger than yours.; 6/14/17, 8:52 PM
Fen said...: "making a point devoid of ad homs and collective association"

That's hillarious Ritmo, you lace you comments daily with "althouse hillbillies" and other ethic slurs, then play the victim when it's dealt back to you.

It's a waste of time to engage Ritmo. He's a sophist. He doesn't believe in any of the things he lectures you about. It's just a debate with floating principles and situational ethics for him. You can argue with him till you are blue in the face, he'll just adopt positions as they are convenient for the moment, like trying on overcoats till he finds one that fits.

Today the shooting of Republican congressmen is no big deal. Next week, shoving a Democrat Congressman will be a heinous crime. He will flip 180 without any shame or acknowledgement.

His goal is not to dicuss the day's issues in good faith, his goal is to run you in circles to boost his self-esteem.

You are wasting your time with him. Just let him rot away.; 6/14/17, 8:52 PM
Bad Lieutenant said...: Blogger readering said...
Interesting history of domestic violence with they guy. Too bad he didn't do serious jail time for that.

Which also would have, if indeed it didn't, keep legal firearms out of his hands.

Meanwhile, I read per NY Magazine and other sources that Fox News is dropping its Fair and Balanced slogan.
6/14/17, 6:40 PM

That probably means they are making a left turn, so you should be happy.; 6/14/17, 8:54 PM
Anonymous said...: Achilles, those people sound very much like how Fen and sometimes you sound. Don't you realize this? As you and Fen don't represent all conservatives, those people don't represent all liberals.; 6/14/17, 8:54 PM
Bad Lieutenant said...: He was more like Ritmo than me - in fact, if he had been from NY I would have wondered if Ritmo had finally snapped.

That right, TTR? Are you in the city? You want to do a meet up sometime?; 6/14/17, 8:55 PM
Francisco D said...: Ina wrote: "There are no liberals cheerleading the shooter on Twitter, more bullshit. You sound like the psychopath."

Sweetheart, your BS is demonstrably false.

I wonder who the psychopath is. If you supported the Clintons, then I suspect that you were drawn into obvious similarities. This is not rocket science.; 6/14/17, 8:56 PM
Michael K said...: So you think this Hodgkinson koo-koo was a political "adversary?" I guess thats one way to dumb down the entire meaning of the word.

I see the lefties did not take long to rationalize the violence of one of their members.

I see no evidence he was psychotic. He did have anger management problems but we see that verbally here every day,.

I'm sure the Trump assassination porn will go on in Central Park tonight. You people have no shame nor self analysis.

Time for my book. You are hopeless.

Hitler came out of Weimar. Be careful with your destruction of the culture of a thousand years.; 6/14/17, 8:56 PM
Fen said...: Mathew gets where we are coming from, even though he wishes we were responding differently. Thanks for taking the time and energy to understand, Matthew.; 6/14/17, 8:57 PM
Michael said...: Nicaragua
Argentina
Ecuador
Chile

No obsession over the failed attempts of central control in these countries.; 6/14/17, 8:59 PM
Achilles said...: The Toothless Revolutionary said...

Having a conversation? Not so much.

You are making me sad. I was hoping you could step back and look at the consequences of the left's actions for all of our sakes. But you have given up.

It is clear that this is the mainstream thought on the left now. The left truly believes we all deserve this because we don't give the government total control of guns and health care. Because we think wrong they have to attack us until we submit. You will continue to push for open borders so you can import more enemies of freedom.

Have fun with your violent dumpster fire of a political movement that is lashing out a it's political enemies and wants to curb their individual liberties. You are going to lose elections until you give up your thuggish tendencies. You can have all of the Mexicans you want vote in California it will not change anything at the federal level. If you continue on this path there will be no quarter.; 6/14/17, 8:59 PM
Fen said...: Remember back when Inga was hectoring everyone for not denouncing the "body slam" of that obnoxious reporter?

Now look at her. LOL.; 6/14/17, 9:00 PM
Matt Sablan said...: Eh, I just remember that for eight years I said that the right should try and be more moderate and not follow the left into the anger industry.

That got Mitt Romney accused of murdering a woman with cancer. So, hey, I admit I was wrong. A calm, moderate and polite right gets treated the same as an angry, belligerent right, gaining all of the negatives and none of the positives of being civil.

I'd prefer both sides be civil. That's clearly not possible, and seeing as I warned the left that this was the likely reaction (though I thought it would be Cruz or Rand Paul as the de facto angry Republican lead, not Out of Nowhere Trump), I can just shrug and say, "Hey, the right TRIED it Matt's way, and you used the state to wiretap reporters and silence them and your candidate's side hired men in masks to attack citizens attending Republican rallies. Republicans aren't going to say, 'Hey, let's keep doing it Matt's way,' when that ends up in people going to the hospital."; 6/14/17, 9:05 PM
chickelit said...: Fen said...Uhm, reminding people that the 2nd Amendment is about our right to shoot down a tyrannical government is not "hate speech".

It's like an escape clause left by the Founders; they put down in words what actions they had to take.; 6/14/17, 9:06 PM
Anonymous said...: "Remember back when Inga was hectoring everyone for not denouncing the "body slam" of that obnoxious reporter?

Now look at her. LOL."

Look at me? Are you suggesting I'm approving of killing one's political foe's? I asked if you were insane earlier, you've answered my question.; 6/14/17, 9:06 PM
Achilles said...: Inga said...
Achilles, those people sound very much like how Fen and sometimes you sound. Don't you realize this? As you and Fen don't represent all conservatives, those people don't represent all liberals.

See we still deserve it. There are literally thousands of comments out there getting millions of likes about how we deserve it.

I didn't really realize how bad it was until I went out on google to respond to Inga. Holy shit this is disgusting.

I am going to get off the internet for a bit. Need to be with the wife and kids. The left has truly lost it today and I am hoping they sober up a bit.; 6/14/17, 9:07 PM
Anonymous said...: "Achilles, those people sound very much like how Fen and sometimes you sound. Don't you realize this? As you and Fen don't represent all conservatives, those people don't represent all liberals."
-----------------
"See we still deserve it. There are literally thousands of comments out there getting millions of likes about how we deserve it.

I didn't really realize how bad it was until I went out on google to respond to Inga. Holy shit this is disgusting.

I am going to get off the internet for a bit. Need to be with the wife and kids. The left has truly lost it today and I am hoping they sober up a bit."
---------------------
It's obvious you don't know how nuts you sound. I often feel I need a bath after reading what you and Fen write. Sick twisted, disordered thinking.; 6/14/17, 9:09 PM
E Willers said...: Own it Inga. You have been on here propagating the othering. How do you like your results so far?; 6/14/17, 9:11 PM
Anonymous said...: Wilers, you're a Moby.; 6/14/17, 9:13 PM
Fen said...: Inga: "those people on Twitter sound like you"

Hardly. And we'll pause while you apologize for ignorantly calling me a liar. You don't get to just skip to your next false attack without admitting you were false on the previous.

What you don't get is that we are not cheerleading for reliatory strikes on democrats. We are trying to warn you to get your house in order. Stop your people from using violence against us, because if it continues we will have no other option than to resort to violence to defend ourselves by stopping your people violently.

You have daughters. You want to be obtuse and tribal, that's fine too. You have been warned where your path leads, so my conscience is clear.; 6/14/17, 9:13 PM
Anonymous said...: "You have daughters. You have been warned where your path leads, so my conscience is clear."

Another threat, a nutcase right here in River City.; 6/14/17, 9:15 PM
iowan2 said...: I heard some generic Democrat say that the shooting was a terrorist attack. My instant thought was, 'he is home grown and had to radicalized, by who? Yep, I said, MSNBC, CNN, NYT.

This explains what happened perfectly. I challenge anyone to differentiate between the DC shooter, and the Pulse Nightclub shooter.; 6/14/17, 9:16 PM
Matt Sablan said...: I don't think it is a threat. It sounds more like when my dad would warn my brother and me that if we keep doing stupid things, something bad would happen. He wasn't saying he'd do something, but swinging from trees on frayed ropes and picking fights lead to negative outcomes frequently.

Creating a climate of hate and trusting that you'll always have control of the masked bomb throwers is a risky position to take, and a lot of people on the left seem to think that they'll be able to control the people they currently have pointed in the right direction.; 6/14/17, 9:18 PM
Fen said...: Inga "are you suggesting I approve of killing my political foes?"

You said you could watch Republicans being beat over the head with a bicycle lock (antifa protest vid) all day long.

You have also claimed to be a nurse, so you know exactly how serious and deadly Traumatic Brain Injuries (TBI) are.

You do the math.

'; 6/14/17, 9:21 PM
Anonymous said...: The right has done it's fair share of creating a climate of hate Matthew. If you don't recognize this, you aren't nearly as wise as you think you are. You are making excuses for the nutcases on the right, right here on this thread.; 6/14/17, 9:24 PM
Achilles said...: Inga said...

It's obvious you don't know how nuts you sound. I often feel I need a bath after reading what you and Fen write. Sick twisted, disordered thinking.

You have lied multiple times today, but not once have you denounced the attack. Every post from you is about how awful we are. Every post from you is about how crazy we are. Every post you make is about how we deserved it.

There will be no more engaging with you people until you start acting like decent human beings. That means casting out thugs like Bernie Sanders and ostracizing people in the BLM and ANTIFA movements. That means putting people who used federal intelligence to spy on political enemies in jail. Obama, Jarret, Powers, Brennan et al.

Hopefully this is achieved peacefully. It will be achieved.; 6/14/17, 9:27 PM
Anonymous said...: Inga "are you suggesting I approve of killing my political foes?"

"You said you could watch Republicans being beat over the head with a bicycle lock (antifa protest vid) all day long."

You sound insane and are a pathological liar.

'; 6/14/17, 9:28 PM
Gospace said...: Chuck said...
But we are talking about polls (which also don't determine election results). And the polls were mostly right.

And in the 2016 World Series the Indians scored 27 runs, the Cubs 27,so the series was mostly tied.; 6/14/17, 9:29 PM
Anonymous said...: "You have lied multiple times today, but not once have you denounced the attack. Every post from you is about how awful we are. Every post from you is about how crazy we are. Every post you make is about how we deserved it."

WTF? You too sound insane. I have never stated or suggested that I advocate harming one's political foes or that they deserve harm to come to them. You and Fen maybe can get a discount rate at the shrink's. Time for my bath, ugh.; 6/14/17, 9:32 PM
MayBee said...: Why not?

If I listen to the media, saying bad things about Muslim people will make them turn to terrorists.
Or things like President Trump's travel restrictions will make Muslims turn toward terrorism.
So are they saying this kind of thing can't happen with other people?
The depiction of Republican's policies as being hate-filled can't turn a white, non-Muslim into a murderer?
Is it only Muslims?; 6/14/17, 9:33 PM
Achilles said...: Inga said...
The right has done it's fair share of creating a climate of hate Matthew. If you don't recognize this, you aren't nearly as wise as you think you are. You are making excuses for the nutcases on the right, right here on this thread.

See Matthew, we deserve it.

The left cannot stop. It is who they are. They are not good people.; 6/14/17, 9:34 PM
Fen said...: Heh. Wisdom would have been using TOR and VPN to hide yourself while cheerleading violence against people like us.

We can read your mail Inga. Not so bright.; 6/14/17, 9:34 PM
Fen said...: "I have never stated or suggested -"

LOL. In the time you wrote all that you could have easily denounced today's shooting.

You just can't bring yourself to do it, can you? You hate Trump and Republicans so much that denouncing your Bernie bro and expressing sympathy and support turns to ash in your mouth.; 6/14/17, 9:38 PM
Michael said...: MayBee

Exactly! Yes, it is only Muslims. Or black people.; 6/14/17, 9:39 PM