"... according to state news agencies,"
the NYT reports.
A Christian official in Minya province, south of Cairo, said the attackers opened fire on a pickup truck carrying workmen and a bus carrying worshipers as they traveled in convoy to St. Samuel’s monastery. Many of the worshipers were children.
“We are having a very hard time reaching the monastery because it is in the desert. It’s very confusing. But we know that children were killed,” said the official, Ibram Samir....
The Islamic State bombed the main Coptic cathedral in Cairo on Dec. 11 and attacked a church in Alexandria and a church in Tanta on Palm Sunday, April 9, killing at least 78 people. A small Christian community in northern Sinai fled the town of El Arish after a series of gun attacks on homes and businesses....
After the Palm Sunday attack, Egypt’s president, Abdel Fattah el-Sisi, declared a state of emergency....
ADDED: Just last month, the Pope visited Egypt.
The NYT wrote:
The pope also spoke at a peace conference hosted by Sheikh Ahmed el-Tayeb, the grand imam of Al Azhar mosque, and met with the Coptic patriarch, Pope Tawadros II....
In a decentralized Muslim world, the pope’s speech and his continuation of a dialogue with Sheikh Tayeb provided Muslims with a high-profile counterpoint to the radical language coming from extremists. Al Azhar forms many of the Sunni world’s imams and oversees the education of millions of Egyptian children and college students....
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81 comments:
Part of an ongoing series. The worldwide protests never seem to materialize.
Are we surprised?
Will we do anything about it?
Will we do what is *needed*?
Didn't think so.
Violence is not the only problem for the Christian population in Egypt, many of whom have left the country in recent years. Official discrimination makes the practice of Christianity so difficult that some churches operate virtually in hiding.
Why do both Muslims and American progressives hate Christians? Why does the American left embrace Islam and its demonstrated intolerance of non-believers?
Impossible! This could not happen. Egypt as good gun control and the government will protect you!
Well, this IS horrible, but it's not very startling or unique. Country by country in the ME, religious minorities are being purged. It's not stoppable, really. All we can do is provide refuge, which of course will be taken by the courts as evidence of horrible religious bigotry.
It is a depressing feature of our times in this country that the people talking the most about bigotry are often the destroyers or their tools.
I don't know what to say or think any more. It is not Aslan that is on the move.
This will never stop. Islam has the long view.
Re: the update regarding the Pope's appearance at the mosque with the imam and the patriarch. Reminds me of Stalin's quip about "How many divisions has the Pope?" But while this kind of gesture is almost worthless, the article does usefully remind us that it is particularly worthless when dealing with Islam, because Islam is decentralized. Its followers answer ultimately to no imam, no Pope, no patriarch, secular authority. Their final authority is the perfect and unchangeable text of the Q'ran. Which inter alia advocates the destruction of the unbelievers wherever they are.
So here we are, and will likely remain, making our appeals to the empty air while the gunmen choose their targets.
The pope is going to send the Coptics a truckload of books on climate change.
Why do both Muslims and American progressives hate Christians?
Muslims hate Christians because they aren't Muslim.
And American progressives hate Christians because they bomb abortion clinics (this answer was volunteered to me the other day by an atheist left-wing co-worker).
Guess I better go change my FB profile colors to Egypt's.
Well, we have to ignore this because.....Islamaphobia.
TwilightofLiberty.com said...
“Guess I better go change my FB profile colors to Egypt’s.”
And dim the Eiffel Tower.
Follow the local news on Egypt for a while and you will see a constant series of incidents of communal harassment by Muslim radicals, and more tellingly by ordinary people, often in mobs.
This does not appear in US media.
Imagine therefore what goes on as a matter of daily life, the aggressions, humiliations and discrimination, that does not show up in the news at all. It is the Muslim population itself that is purging religious minorities, the terrorism by the radicals is the only part that attracts international attention.
This wont be stopped by Popes or governments.
And, note, this sort of thing is latent in all such situations, and of course on the "bloody borders". There is a constant buzz of incidents not terrible enough to make international news.
MaxedOutMom sums it up in one sentence:
"It is a depressing feature of our times in this country that the people talking the most about bigotry are often the destroyers or their tools. "
Leftwingers and their angry Islamic bothers in arms - DO NOT CARE.
Killing Christians is easy.
It's like shooting fish in a barrel.
Easy as pie.
Like taking candy from a baby.
In the end, you're still stuck in a shit-hole, and wearing a fucking rag on your head.
Worse yet, your mother was circumcised like a cow.
CNN will report it as a Right-wing 'false flag' incident.
Tommy Duncan: Why do both Muslims and American progressives hate Christians?
More interesting question: why do American progressive Christians hate Christians?
Aside: The Christian Churches in my blue city use their signage to compete with each other in the more-hiply-compassionate-than-thou game. A few years ago they were plastering as much Spanish-language sloganeering as would fit onto their buildings and lawns, advertising succor for the differently-documented, despite the fact that we have very little, if anything, in the way of illegal Spanish-speaking residents.
Now they're all about making sure everybody knows how much they (unlike you, bigot passer-by) love Muslims. Especially how much they love Muslim refugees. Not that we have any. (Though I'm sure the upper-middle-class professionals who constitute the local Muslim population are deeply grateful for Bwana Dork's support.)
Clowns.
Why do both Muslims and American progressives hate Christians? Why does the American left embrace Islam and its demonstrated intolerance of non-believers?
Because they serve the same Master: Satan.
As others have said, this is ultimately unstoppable regardless of the protection of governments or terrorist waves. It is written as such in the last perfect word of Allah.
Having said that, El-Sisi, is trying to protect the Copts and the Islamics are trying extra hard to kill them since the Arab Spring in the country. The Copt community was very anti-Muslim Bro
El-Sisi will fail, and retreat on this point.
"This wont be stopped by Popes or governments. "
Too bad there is no Christian Israel.
The Christians are readily assimilated and could be taken in here but thenDemocrats scream about "religious discrimination" if we try to exclude the murdering Islamists and admit peaceful Christains.
Aside: The Christian Churches in my blue city use their signage to compete with each other in the more-hiply-compassionate-than-thou game. A few years ago they were plastering as much Spanish-language sloganeering as would fit onto their buildings and lawns, advertising succor for the differently-documented, despite the fact that we have very little, if anything, in the way of illegal Spanish-speaking residents.
So true. The 'World Council of Churches' denominations. Reminiscent of the 'Radical Chic' movement of a prior era.
The COMMANDS of the Koran, to wage Jihad and kill "unbelievers" are unalterable and perpetual.
Now they're all about making sure everybody knows how much they (unlike you, bigot passer-by) love Muslims. Especially how much they love Muslim refugees.
Hoping the crocodile eats them last.
Well: good luck to the Pope, and good luck to Sheikh Ahmed el-Tayeb, and especially good luck to Coptics and all other non-Muslims living in Egypt and other Muslim-dominated places.
I hope none of us forget about the Crusades, though.
Etienne said...
Killing Christians is easy.
It's like shooting fish in a barrel.
Easy as pie.
Like taking candy from a baby.
In the end, you're still stuck in a shit-hole, and wearing a fucking rag on your head.
Worse yet, your mother was circumcised like a cow.
5/26/17, 7:49 AM
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Just one example of the Althouse commentariat on fire this morning. Solid.
For someone who claims to abhor anti-Muzzie generalities, Althouse, you sure provide a lot of good reasons to make them.
mockturtle, the ELCA has turned me into a Christmas-Easter only churchgoer. Many of the "Christian" churches here are basically liberal social clubs with a religious theme.
Islam has been slaughtering Egyptian Christians for over 1,300 years.
More interesting question: why do American progressive Christians hate Christians?
Because lefty Christian churches aren't Christian. They are liberal social clubs who have culturally appropriated Christian themes and symbols. There is a church about 2 blocks from the Wisc state capital. Go online and read the sermon from the Sunday after Trumps election.
I read somewhere that the Coptic population in Egypt has declined by about 50%. These are some of the best educated and talented people in that country. I would welcome them to this country. They're like the Indians from Uganda or the ethnic Chinese from Vietnam. It's our gain to accept them, and the expelling country's loss to lose them. As a bonus point in their favor, they might actually be grateful to America and develop that kind of unreserved patriotism that earlier immigrants had. Some might even vote Republican, although that's a stretch.
A mostly peaceful night for local youths, we may never know why.
Why has Islamist violence in the West increased since 9-11-01?
President Obama had the solution for this - leave the Christians to fend for themselves, and import the Muslims to America.
William said...
I read somewhere that the Coptic population in Egypt has declined by about 50%. These are some of the best educated and talented people in that country. I would welcome them to this country. They're like the Indians from Uganda or the ethnic Chinese from Vietnam. It's our gain to accept them, and the expelling country's loss to lose them. As a bonus point in their favor, they might actually be grateful to America and develop that kind of unreserved patriotism that earlier immigrants had. Some might even vote Republican, although that's a stretch.
Frankly, Israel could do worse as well. They already took the North African Jews.
Earlier generations of immigrants didn't leave their ancestral hatreds at Ellis Island, but it should be noted that those ancestral hatreds were not directed at America. Some of the Immigrants with anarchist and Marxist leanings hated American capitalism, but, generally, they didn't hate America qua America or have an especial dislike for white Americans......I have the sense that most Muslims in the Middle East have a kind of inchoate resentment against America. They can't put their finger on exactly where things went wrong, but they're pretty sure that America is to blame. I just don't think it's discriminatory to be wary about admitting such people to America.
Too bad there is no Christian Israel.
Too bad there is no Christian Bethlehem. Not too many years ago, the birthplace of Jesus was majority Christian. But they have been pushed out by the Muslim Palestinians.
And, no, Hoodlum, we will not forget how after Muslim armies attacked and conquered Christian lands -- getting halfway up into France at one point -- that the Christians had the audacity to try to liberate those lands from the Islamic invaders.
So what did those Coptics do to provoke the religion of peace?
This sort of thing happens wherever Islam is in the majority or is a significant minority. Religious tolerance is a foreign and unknown concept for Moslems. A Moslem in Tel Aviv has more rights than a Christian or a Jew in Riyadh.
Consider that ambush as business-as-usual for the followers of the Koran.
Gahrie said...
So what did those Coptics do to provoke the religion of peace?
5/26/17, 10:30 AM
They dared to practice their faith.
" As a bonus point in their favor, they might actually be grateful to America and develop that kind of unreserved patriotism that earlier immigrants had. Some might even vote Republican, although that's a stretch."
Well, the Dems wouldn't want those kinds coming into the country.
It's true, there is no outrage from the left. Even here.
I note the absence of the usual leftists here. Do they not care? Do they not see how their lack of commenting--even a "That's horrible!" --makes them look?
Do you know what pacified the Muslim world after they won the Crusades? A bunch of Christians killing a huge amount of Muslims. People like Vlad Tepes, and Jan Sobieski. Like the United States Marines at Tripoli. We had to slaughter them until they realized they couldn't win.
Well, now Islamists think they can win. And yet, the only thing preventing a massive Muslim annihilation is the weakness of the West. We are still far superior to the goatherders. Just need to bring back the Pattons, the LeMays, and the Pershings.
It's unfortunate that we'll have to do this... and if we don't? Well, we can look forward to the same thing here. One wonders how much the left will cheer Islamists gunning down Christians in the United States.
--Vance
" One wonders how much the left will cheer Islamists gunning down Christians in the United States."
One doesn't have to wonder very much. But perhaps someone could explain how a religious minority, demonized and marginalized if you will, manages to refrain from committing mass murder in response to its situation. That seems to be the expectation of Muslims when they are the minority. What's wrong with the Coptics?
First of all I just saw this blogpost after Chickelit pointed out that no liberals had commented on it on another thread. So now I'm commenting.
This is a horrendous incident, mindbogglingly evil. Why isn't there more protection for the Christians from the government of Egypt? I'm in favor of allowing into the Coptics in the US as those who are seeking political asylum, because their situation is more than just religion based. Islam is a state religion, which mixes religion with government/ politics. These people are seeking political asylum as well as religious asylum. It wouldn't violate the Constitution. We allowed in how many Cubans seeking political asylum? Some of them were Christians who weren't allowed to worship under a Communist government. We could do the same for these Coptic Egyptians.
"Why do both Muslims and American progressives hate Christians? Why does the American left embrace Islam and its demonstrated intolerance of non-believers?"
"Because they serve the same Master: Satan."
Ignorant comments. I'm a Christian. I've been attending a Presbyterian church for a couple of years now. I don't hate Christians. I don't hate Muslims. I do hate violent Islamist extremism.
Tommy Duncan: "Why do both Muslims and American progressives hate Christians? Why does the American left embrace Islam and its demonstrated intolerance of non-believers?"
As to the latter: Lefties and Muslims have the same goals for non-believers, conversion, slavery or death. Ideological would-be despots are all pretty much the same. Can't say that too often.
"First of all I just saw this blogpost after Chickelit pointed out that no liberals had commented on it on another thread. So now I'm commenting."
Careful — you'll now predictably be accused of "virtue signaling".
mockturtle said...
CNN will report it as a Right-wing 'false flag' incident.
5/26/17, 7:55 AM
Or, a clash, or battle, between Christians and Muslims.
"Careful — you'll now predictably be accused of "virtue signaling."
No doubt. But I did not see this blogpost, that is the honest to God truth. I'm not afraid of wading in shark infested pools.
Careful — you'll now predictably be accused of 'virtue signaling.'
Not by me. Inga did the right thing.
Unknown Vance: "I note the absence of the usual leftists here. Do they not care? Do they not see how their lack of commenting--even a "That's horrible!" --makes them look?"
Fear not. Inga has declared her commitment to "speak out against evil" on another thread. I'm sure she will be here soon. LOL.
"Fear not. Inga has declared her commitment to "speak out against evil" on another thread. I'm sure she will be here soon. LOL."
LOL indeed.
Why isn't there more protection for the Christians from the government of Egypt?
Not enough Muslims want that protection for the government to be bothered to supply it. The same reason there is no protection for conservative speakers on college campuses.
I'm a Christian. I've been attending a Presbyterian church for a couple of years now.
Some of my best friends are Christians
So what did those Coptics do to provoke the religion of peace?
They exist.
Note -- the Christians in the Middle East -- who have been there for 2000 years and have lived peacefully with their Muslim neighbors for centuries -- do not want to leave and seek asylum in the United States. They do not want to see the birthplace of Christianity religiously cleansed of Christians. It is their home.
And there are no excuses for the Egyptian government to not protect the Christian minority there, including not allowing non-Christians to use the legal process to seize Christian property in addition to protecting them from violence.
That said, without excusing them, Egypt is still reeling from the Obama/Hillary supported overthrow of the prior government which did provide protection and was friendly to the West. It was they who helped create the conditions which led to the Muslim Brotherhood rising in stature and taking over.
It's still Spring in Egypt.
Fair points to Inga for coming in and condemning the attack.
But her response raises some questions: Why does it require political persecution to get asylum? Inga's response suggests that as long as the government is not actively participating in murdering Christians that she would forbid Christians from refugees. Take the Philippines, for instance: they have a large, active, terrorist Muslim population, which the government is fighting against (somewhat futility, it appears). Does that mean that the Christians on Mindandora shouldn't be allowed to be refugees or asylum seekers?
Second question: Obama and the Democrat party actively denied permission to persecuted Christians from Syria and I think Egypt, while at the same time claiming that we must let in tens of thousands of Muslims. Christians (and Yazudi's) were explicitly told to go suffer and die at the hands of Militant Islam. That was Obama and Hillary and Kerry's policies. Obama engineered the Muslim Brotherhood taking over in Egypt, whereupon tens of thousands of Coptic Christians were persecuted/killed. Obama to this day still says that the Muslim Brotherhood is the rightful ruler of Egypt, and that Al-Sisi, the actual president, is an usurper.
Given those facts, why does Inga still support Obama and his foreign policy, which actively promoted Muslims persecuting and killing Christians?
--Vance
I'm betting this was because of the Crusades or something.
Certainly cannot be because of Islam.
It's our gain to accept them, and the expelling country's loss to lose them. As a bonus point in their favor, they might actually be grateful to America and develop that kind of unreserved patriotism that earlier immigrants had.
I agree completely. That's why I favor Chinese immigration.
It is a policy of Democrats, just as the Labour Party did in England, to admit the least useful immigrants in hopes they will be reliable voters for the left wing party. That. of course, requires they stay poor and on welfare.
At least Mexican share some values with us as they are Christian. The Muslims are like they are from another planet.
Michael K: I honestly wonder how much difference there is between Islam and the Aztecs. At least Islam reveres Abraham, but otherwise what's the practical difference between the two faiths? Both blood thirsty militant religions who glorify killing their enemies and exacting tribute from their conquered slaves. Both abusive to women (Though perhaps the Aztecs were more kind to the ladies than Islam is).
The Aztecs killed their slaves/sacrifices by ripping the hearts out of them while still alive. The Islamists kill their sacrifices by cutting their heads off with dull knives or burning them alive. Is one more atrocious than another? Allah was originally a moon God; the Aztecs had several nature deities they sacrificed to (Tlaloc being one).
Tlaloc required child sacrifices; and most of Islam doesn't do that--but Palestinians target Jewish children, so it's not a crime by any means.
I honestly wonder what the practical difference is. One thing is that Christianity decisively defeated the Aztec/Maya sacrifice culture. We didn't do that to Islam.
--Vance
The thing is, the Man we Christians call our leader called for us to turn the other cheek. This stuff that's happening down here is not okay.
It will be.
The pope is going to send the Coptics a truckload of books on climate change.
And the scourge of Capitalism.
I hear Marx is comforting as you're bleeding out.
Weird. Here's a piece that's about something absolutely horrible. Death and casualty tolls equivalent to Manchester. But the common comment on this site, "Those leftists . . . ."
At least the slaughter wasn't racist. That would be bad.
"I honestly wonder what the practical difference is."
The difference is that Aztecs lived 500 years ago and Muslims are still around and have not changed.
The 100% failure rate in the Muslim world is a consequence of their insane education system which consists of memorizing the Quran.
Also women are half the population and are treated as slaves.
Also there is no science or literacy. Patents and Books published give the numbers.
It is like another planet. Westerners used to visit to see relics of the Romans 2000 years ago. And Egyptians from 3000 years ago.
The "Translation Movement" of Harun al-Rashid was mostly done by Christian Greeks who had "converted" to keep their heads.
When I was in Istanbul ten years ago, they were taking down the great panels of calligraphy that covered the Christian mosaics. They were finding that the workmen who put up those panels after the Turks made Hagia Sophia into a mosque, had carefully protected the mosaics with straw and clay. They were no doubt hoping the Christians would take back the city, someday.
I wonder if Erdogan is going to allow that museum to continue ?
"They do not want to see the birthplace of Christianity religiously cleansed of Christians. It is their home."
Of course they don't. Do they have much of a choice in the matter. It appears that some of their Muslim neighbors have different wants.
One thing is that Christianity decisively defeated the Aztec/Maya sacrifice culture. We didn't do that to Islam.
By the time we had developed the ability (Early 20th century) we had lost the will.
A Moslem in Tel Aviv has more rights than a Christian or a Jew in Riyadh.
A Muslim in Tel Aviv has more rights than a Muslim in Riyadh.
"Why isn't there more protection for the Christians from the government of Egypt?"
I bet the government of Egypt is already doing whatever it can that is within its limited power.
Consider how successful France has been at protecting Jews - not very, and that is in a first world country, and where the security services are fully sympathetic to the Jews.
When the populace hates a minority sufficiently there is very little a government with means well short of the pervasiveness and brutality of the NKVD can do.
France has been at protecting Jews - not very
Or Britain protecting its native population... or Germany, or even America.
One thing is that Christianity decisively defeated the Aztec/Maya sacrifice culture
Human sacrifice was reclaimed and recharacterized as abortion rites in progressive liberal cultures.
And the scourge of Capitalism.
Ooh, organic. It can be harsh without a suitable religious/moral philosophy to temper its hard edges.
Al Sisi and Egyptian jets attacked the al Qeada camps today
Nice to see a decisive leader on our side.
Personally, I would be fine if Egypt annexed eastern Libya. They could use the oil income.
" I've been attending a Presbyterian church for a couple of years now. "
The Presbyterian Church has joined the BDS movement and boycotted Israel.
I consider that siding with Muslim extremists in the Palestinian terror state.
There is no population of Muslims alive today that has not participated in the violent genocide/ethnic cleansing of minority populations. The vast majority of muslims are violent or support violence against non-muslims and have participated at one level or another.
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