Who are these weighty American righties and what are they doing with the hacking attack? The NYT says "American far-right groups" are "promoting the breach online." The NYT has articles about the hacking, but I guess these articles don't count as "promoting" it, so what are the "groups" doing other than repeating the news that Macron got hacked?
“It’s the anti-globalists trying to go global,” said Ben Nimmo, a senior fellow of the digital forensics research lab at the Atlantic Council, a think tank, who has studied the far right’s recent efforts against Mr. Macron and others in France. “There’s a feeling of trying to export the revolution.”So they got Nimmo who's at a think tank, and he reports "a feeling."
[W]ithin hours after the hacked documents were made public, the hashtag #MacronLeaks began trending worldwide, aided by online far-right activists in the United States who have been trying to sway the French vote in favor of Ms. Le Pen.I still don't understand how this is anything more than passing on the news story that there was a hack. The NYT and all the major media are doing that too.
Jack Posobiec, a journalist with the far-right news outlet The Rebel, was the first to use the hashtag with a link to the hacked documents online, which was then shared more widely by WikiLeaks....So one person showed where to find the documents.
While there is no evidence that the recent hack against Mr. Macron’s campaign was organized by this loosely connected group of extremist campaigners...What loosely connected group? Does that refer to something earlier in the article? The sentence continues
... the American activists...Who?
... have been regularly gathering on sites like 4Chan and Discord, which was previously used to coordinate support for Donald J. Trump’s presidential campaign.The name of websites where people communicate seems to stand in for details identifying the "activist" "groups" the article is talking about.
One popular tactic, according to experts, has been so-called Twitter raids, or efforts to hijack trending hashtag and topics on the social media site and inject far-right and anti-Macron propaganda.That sounds nefarious — raids! inject! — but what does that say other than that social media exists and works in a certain way?
A week before the second round of the French election, for instance, online activists, many from the United States and other English-speaking countries, flooded Twitter with coordinated anti-Macron memes — online satirical photos with often-biting captions — carrying hashtags like #elysee2017 that were linked to the campaign. That included portraying him as a 21st-century equivalent of Marie Antoinette, the out-of-touch last queen of France, and other memes linked him to false allegations of an extramarital affair.They used satire! Wait... was it... The Piranha Brothers?!
ADDED: The "loosely connected group" just doesn't even seem to be a group at all. I can't see how it's anything more than the way social media operates to facilitate reading and writing. It's just free speech. I read this as the NYT agonizing over how MSM isn't filtering everything these days, and yet here it is, demonstrating how badly it filters. I'm giving this post my "fake news" tag. That just means the subject of "fake news" is an issue, not that I'm saying the NYT published a fake news article.
ADDED: Poll results:
Posts
171 comments:
Again, I thank you for reading the NYT---So I need not do so!
Have they yet and honestly changed their masthead to read, "Tell A Lie Often Enough And It Becomes The Truth"?
lol. nice work
The NY Times might be having a panic attack at the thought of Le Pen winning this election.
Panic attacks can be dangerous. People have been known to die during them.
I don't know about newspapers.
This is so, so, so good.
The NYT obviously wants Merkel to win.
Le Pen or DEATH.
The right's support for Le Pen is interesting because she is a socialist. The only thing they have in common is an intense dislike of foreigners.
Do you think they're trying to offset damage done by the Shitfinger endorsement?
One more reason, though totally unnecessary since long before now, to distrust the NYT.
It is so bizarre to sort through the attempts of influence. Am I naive to think that anti-globalist, if they even exist as a group, would understand that a movement is not authentic if it does not arise from grass root efforts. Can an outside influence convince a nation they must be strong in their identity, sovereignty and traditions?
I thought the Macron campaign was blaming Russian and Ukraine hackers.
The Russians hacked the NYT. That's why they were pushing Hillary.
I added a poll.
Didn't Obama cut an advertisement for Macron? Is that not also "trying to move the political needle?"
And the NYT CEO insists that it is not failing, despite Trump's claim. More fake news.
I hacked Macron's account. The password was "motherfucker."
Here comes 1929 all over again! (The right-wing's favorite year EVAR!)
Hopefully they can be fed to bear the brunt of what's to come, the "wonderful things" they're about to bring the world.
By agreement big media appear to have decided not to cover the content of the leaked emails, just that poor Macron is the victim of evil - Russians? Right wingers? Any who dare to link to the actual emails must be shamed for breaking lefty medias self imposed ban.
AReasonableMan said...The right's support for Le Pen is interesting because she is a socialist. The only thing they have in common is an intense dislike of foreigners.
This is partly correct.-- but it's more an intense dislike of foreigners who refuse to assimilate -- hence the resonance here. It's also a dislike of an overarching Federal bureaucracy which can't begin to admit what is going too far too fast. Plus French politics pretty much defines the caste system of "us vs. them." Hence the resonance.
And the NYT CEO insists that it is not failing, despite Trump's claim. More fake news.
Since the right-wing doesn't believe the things that even they say, I call the above an example of a "fake opinion."
Business is booming in all traditional media. The NYTimes has links to tips and anonymous reports. Stephen Colbert's ratings are through the roof. The country and world hate this fool and everyone else who games the system with cons. The moderate left is far from perfect - perhaps even flailing; the right is a disaster on training wheels.
I'm far too creative to be pigeonholed by a poll, but not nearly as creative as FNYT news writers:
"Yes. Because it follows the norms of ethical journalism."
Maybe Macron's Mommy, er, I mean Wife, will rescue him from that mean lady, Le Pen.
BTW, Trump is so abysmal a leader that I don't want to presume that Le Pen would be as bad, let alone even worse. After all, she is a "career politician".
Hopefully they can be fed to bear the brunt of what's to come, the "wonderful things" they're about to bring the world.
The Russian bear is hungry, but not that hungry.
"Career politician" is an epithet preferred by conservatives who hate experience.
Conservatives Opposed to Experience (COE). Has a nice ring to it.
According to the Independent:
France's electoral commission has ordered media not to publish contents of Emmanuel Macron's leaked campaign emails to avoid influencing the election.
It warned news outlets in France that journalists could face criminal charges for publishing or republishing the material, under laws that came into effect at midnight forbidding any commentary liable to affect the presidential race.
The Russian bear is hungry, but not that hungry.
Nor as ravenous or rapacious as global markets.
Why does the right wing find it so hard to worry about and deal with actual, conventional threats? Are their imaginations really that dull?
NYT, or as Macron calls it, "the other gray lady in my life."
Conservatives Opposed to Experience (COE).
That coalition did in Hillary.
@AReasonableMan
Not a dislike of foreigners, it is not wanting to see French values overtaken by Islamic values. The immigration rate has been too high to allow for successful assimilation. True, the US right disagrees with LaPen on many issues. Most of us empathize with her desire to put the interests of French citizens above the interests of the EU. But primarily it is the unfair and disdainful treatment by media that cause us to cheer her on.
This leak has come rather late, as it will not be covered much further by French MSM due to the campaign news blackout (which is normal in elections, not limited to this subject).
I wonder how deeply social media penetrates in France.
Glad to see you embrace the label.
Maybe you can form an offshoot wing: Chemists Opposed to Chemistry Education
Preferred teaching methods will include freebasing alkaloids under bridges.
"The name of websites where people communicate seems to stand in for details identifying the "activist" "groups" the article is talking about."
Does that mean that this site is an activist group by the NYT standards?
Or is it 2-3 activist groups? The majority being libertarian-conservative with the frenetic Ritmo, PBJ/3rd grader, Cookie and Inga making up the liberal-leftist side. The life-long Republican Detroit election judge (i.e., Sgt. Schultz) is a in a group of his own.
It's 4chan /pol/.
"Wikileaks, I love Wikileaks!"
Donald Trump
Preferred teaching methods will include freebasing alkaloids under bridges.
You've got to be Kiedissing me.
The only thing they have in common is an intense dislike of foreigners.
Only foreigners who riot and burn cars. And rape, of course.
The French used to be quite unpleasant to foreigners 30 years ago but got almost friendly the last time I was there.
Of course, I don't riot or burn cars.
Martha reports: According to the Independent:
France's electoral commission has ordered media not to publish contents of Emmanuel Macron's leaked campaign emails to avoid influencing the election.
It warned news outlets in France that journalists could face criminal charges for publishing or republishing the material, under laws that came into effect at midnight forbidding any commentary liable to affect the presidential race.
Apparently, Liberté does not extend to the press.
Does that mean that this site is an activist group by the NYT standards?
Insofar as bubbles/echo chambers evince "activity."
Don't overstate 4 people's influence. The right-wing's complacency with the abominations they're ok with this guy pulling off seems to fall under a category I'd call "political passivism." Activism is for people who actually care about the outcome.
Not a dislike of foreigners, it is not wanting to see French values overtaken by Islamic values.
What, exactly, is wrong with that sentiment? It is a sentiment. I'd like to hear the spirited defense of Islamic values fro the usual suspects here.
France's electoral commission has ordered media not to publish contents of Emmanuel Macron's leaked campaign emails to avoid influencing the election.
It warned news outlets in France that journalists could face criminal charges for publishing or republishing the material, under laws that came into effect at midnight forbidding any commentary liable to affect the presidential race.
Apparently, Liberté does not extend to the press.
Nice amateur opinion there, passivist. American courts impose gag orders, too. Maybe not in this way, but maybe they should.
Not all of us have as much love for outsourcing our politics/political process to Russia. How low can you people sink? You'd really prefer Putin to your own opposition and the greater than 50% of the country who are with them.
Liberty most certainly does not extend to the press under the EU regime. Which is all the more reason for shady social media right wingers take up the slack.
Jesus! That's four evidence free "far right"s in the first four quotes including the post title, with a fifth thrown in for good measure later on. Really? The author must have set up a hot key on his keyboard.
Far right makes far might.
The Toothless Revolutionary said...Not all of us have as much love for outsourcing our politics/political process to Russia
So, you're discounting what Feinstein concluded about Russia's influence here?
So, grassroots is the new fascism.
It's a sad day when JournoLists demand the people get off their lawn.
Dang - they found us out. Me and Poot did it.
I can't get to the NYT article, but the Brit paper linked by Drudge specifically names the Russians as the suspected hackers. Those guys are everywhere! The article is having a bit of internal trouble with their spin, as it relies on the theory that the emails are fake to support suppressing them, but Macron has confirmed that his email was hacked. Of course those Russians are just devious enough to both hack the emails AND replace them with fakes.
So, you're discounting what Feinstein concluded about Russia's influence here?
And what did she conclude?
Feinstein was speaking of unclassified info. The question posed by Wolf Blitzer was about unclassified info. It's amusing to see so many Trumpists get so excited, but it's premature.
n.n., hah!
30-year-olds acting like 70-year-olds indeed.
The media continue to beclown themselves. It is is utterly amazing to me that they take the stance that no one should read this material and determine if there is anything in it that might make one reconsider a vote for Macron. Does anyone really believe that they would be writing the same kinds of things if Le Pen were the subject of this leak? Anyone?
I find it interesting that the French media apparently have not actually published the contents of the hacked Emails, just the fact of the hack itself. If I was a French voter I'd assume that the Emails would be devastating if published and I would vote for Le Pen. But I'm not French, just an American voter made cynical by the past 10 years of the media here in the United States.
"Without revealing classified information..."
Whoever it is that's doing the hacking, it's a clear assault on democracy and follows a pattern.
"The country and world hate this fool"
Correction, rich European and American white leftists hate Trump. Poorer less white countries like Ghana, China and India do not share your hatred of Trump.
"Not all of us have as much love for outsourcing our politics/political process to Russia"
I am sure most Israel's felt the same when Obama spent US tax dollars to try and influence theirs. The email leak can only hurt if it exposes corruption and proves the candidate a liar.The DNC leak did all that. If the person is who they claim to be publicly it might actually help - sadly that is rarely the case.
So, Toothless, all leaks about politicians are assaults on democracy? Really?
As their motto states, "All the news that's fake enough to print."
n.n observes: So, grassroots is the new fascism.
So it would seem. The peasants need to turn a collective deaf ear to such invective, just as we need to turn a deaf ear to shrill false accusations of racism, homophobia and islamophobia. Words can't hurt us any more. It's all about actions.
Poorer less white countries like Ghana, China and India do not share your hatred of Trump.
Oh yes. I'm sure we have much to learn about power, statecraft and successfully running a large country from them! The colonized are now our teachers! I guess Chief Liverspot Bannon was telling the truth: You really are all Marxists now.
The NYT has been fake news since Duranty. Their masthead should read, All the news that fits our views.
I am going to state it up front- hacking and releasing the details of the private dealings of anyone running for office or holding office is good hygiene for any government you call a democracy. It is best to have as much information as possible about those holding political office, I don't give a fuck who it is.
I am sure most Israel's felt the same when Obama spent US tax dollars to try and influence theirs.
Obama overplayed his hand but this business of assuming every right-wing Israeli PM is the go-to Clausewitz when it comes to running our affairs in the Middle East gets really stale after a while. The old "Arabists" at state aren't much better. But the evangelists who fixate on Israel as global savior aren't as much better as they think.
The email leak can only hurt if it exposes corruption and proves the candidate a liar.
Nonsense. The idea that information mobsters are great at interpreting closed-door conversations is half-baked. The right-wing now rejects "framing?" A lie can make it halfway around the world before the truth even has a chance to put on its pants.
If I was a French voter I'd assume that the Emails would be devastating if published and I would vote for Le Pen.
Me, too, Mike. This should help Le Pen.
other memes linked him to false allegations of an extramarital affair.
This won't work in France. They expect their politicians to have affairs.
Re: Ritmo's new hero, Malcolm Nance:
In April 18, 2017, Malcolm Nance encouraged ISIS to carry out a suicide bombing of a President Trump's property in Istanbul, Turkey. His tweet read 'This is my nominee for the first ISIS suicide bombing of a Trump property.' Once the tweet became popular and inflammatory it was deleted.
Chief Liverspot Bannon
That seems kind of ageist.
Yancey Ward said...
"I am going to state it up front- hacking and releasing the details of the private dealings of anyone running for office or holding office is good hygiene for any government you call a democracy. It is best to have as much information as possible about those holding political office, I don't give a fuck who it is."
Well, there you go, an honest conservative.
Last fall, someone at the New York Times leaked how the paper operates. Instead of simply sending out reporters to discover and report on what is happening in the world -- i.e. reporting news -- the NYT begins the whole process with a pre-determined narrative. "This is what we want to say," the papers tell their journalists, "now go out and get some stories to fit the narrative and agenda."
The narrative and agenda are that Trump and the "far-right" won by nefarious hacking. Period. THAT is the story. That is the story and it needed no proof and needs no proof -- it is established. The NYT "reporters" are now simply taking as many other stories as they can to fit into that narrative.
More guilt-by-association and framing (without attribution of his quotes or context) from the humorless Chief Chemistry Officer.
When the organic volatiles require too many handling precautions, you can always resort to sniffing glue.
Apparently Macron was hiding payoffs from ... someone, unexplained assets, unreported and untaxed income.
Tax evasion is SOP in France, but thats usually unreported business income or under the table rentals, etc. I dont think Macron has ever had an unsalaried job however.
Thats probably worse than getting your relatives phony political jobs like Fillon (and Hollande, etc) was dinged for.
Unfortunately further details as yet unreleased, as to amounts involved.
I didn't ask Nance for chest-beating on ISIS (or ISIL, or whatever Trump doesn't know about how they're named). I linked his comments on the Russian hack, which is what he seems to know a hell of a lot more than you about.
But what the hell, you go ahead and make this a stupid test of character and flag-waving. I'm sure Nance is a thousand times more likely to have been involved in operations that saved your worthless ass than vice versa. So spare me your sanctimonious bullshit on his joke. He's earned the right to tell one. You haven't. Nevermind the fact that your humor is so underdeveloped.
You have posted 14 times what is wrong with you?
Arthur James said...
You have posted 14 times what is wrong with you?
He is trying to add balance.
More guilt-by-association and framing (without attribution of his quotes or context) from the humorless Chief Chemistry Officer. link.
You have posted 14 times what is wrong with you?
Combatting propaganda retold by you passivists requires more engagement than what I'm up against.
Stop telling lies or casually passing along misleading rumors and I'll post less. I guarantee it.
From dead Soviets on the far-left to individuals on the far-right. JournoListic progress.
This sort of corruption is better hidden in the US, where payoffs are more often handled legally when the functionaries are out of office.
As we see with entities like Teneo Holdings, or with speaking fees and book deals. Not to mention favorable treatment of investments and etc.
ARM wrote: He is trying to add balance.
This is my longstanding objection to the Althouse comment section in general. Adding balance is important and crucial even. But too often, that added balance is too contrived and is done by such a minority of players that it looks transparently phony.
Democracy dies in dramatic irony.
The So-Cal walking chemistry experiment apparently prefers that top intel officers look the other way when Trump sells out U.S. national interests to the thug Erdogan.
The guy made a joke. Elect a more popular and admirable and decent human being next time if you are getting all snowflake-y at how little regard everyone else has for Orange Pompadour's "feelings."
This has nothing to do with who's working with whom to do what in France - the actual patriotic interest operative in this sorry excuse for a "discussion". You're just bringing your distraction to new levels.
It is best to have as much information as possible about those holding political office, I don't give a fuck who it is."
Well, there you go, an honest conservative.
It is hilarious that a leftist Democrat thinks it is "conservative" to want "as much information as possible about those holding political office,"
Just hilarious. Thanks, Inga.
But too often, that added balance is too contrived and is done by such a minority of players that it looks transparently phony.
How is this even a criticism?!! If you really feel as you do, then add your voice to the "minority's", you silly man! LOL!!!
Minority's are too "contrived" and "phony" to take seriously? Wow. I guess that's a huge swipe at the unpopular, and popular vote-losing Trump administration.
The things you say...
Balance in this case, properly, would require addressing the subject, and not plain ad hominem. The cited article actually is for the most part ad hominem, and "unbalanced".
I read this as the NYT agonizing over how MSM isn't filtering everything these days, and yet here it is, demonstrating how badly it filters.
Brilliant!
This has nothing to do with who's working with whom to do what in France - the actual patriotic interest operative in this sorry excuse for a "discussion". You're just bringing your distraction to new levels.
Getting back closer to the topic -- Merkel vs. Le Pen -- perhaps you or Bill Maher can stand up for and defend Islamic values. Or, throw us a link on how Micron is a hardliner against terrorism.
chickelit said...
that added balance is too contrived and is done by such a minority of players that it looks transparently phony.
WTF.
Getting back closer to the topic -- Merkel vs. Le Pen -- perhaps you or Bill Maher can stand up for and defend Islamic values. Or, throw us a link on how Micron is a hardliner against terrorism.
I can do a better job than a meek, unpopularity-fearing religionist can do attacking them.
This is about more than Islam - the religion/ideology that politicians are poor candidates for reforming or defanging. It's about weakening Europe.
Europe has to get its immigration problem in order. If it has to take Le Pen to do it, oh well. But given how spectacularly Trump's crashed and failed on that score, I'm not giving her good prospects for it.
To repeat: Politicians can tackle this problem in a number of concrete ways: Immigration reform, counter-terrorism, and foreign policy. Changing Islam or doing something about home-grown jihadists requires civil society. Non-governmental organizations and discourse.
Maybe France has tipped beyond that point. But just barking about Muslims/Islam from the government is futile. Other than the way it makes you feel better.
And this:
"Bill Maher can stand up for and defend Islamic values."
Has got to win an award for most disingenuous statement of the year. It's hard to think of anyone after Hitchens other than Maher and other atheists who've done a better job criticizing Islamic "values."
@Toothless
I am not arguing who is best to lead Israel. Just pointing out the hypocrisy of getting hysterical over Russia attempting to influence foreign elections when Obama, like most US Presidents routinely did so.
If Le Pen wants to reform the EU to stop the flow of immigrants, that's fine. But her country already has like 10% Muslims. It seems too late.
Who knows? If you really think European disintegration is the only way to go then I guess we'll see how that nice little ancillary side benefit, that throwing the baby out with the bathwater, works.
Unintended consequences are fun, right? Especially with purported global crises.
"So spare me your sanctimonious bullshit on his joke. He's earned the right to tell one. You haven't. "
The right to tell a joke is 'earned'?
Good to know humor is better left to those Who Have Earned The Right.
There are Protocols.
You can't just throw out an unearned 'cock holster'.
By the way: not offended by that joke. But it's not a 'Haha' joke, it's an 'Applaud Me' joke.
I am Laslo.
I am not arguing who is best to lead Israel. Just pointing out the hypocrisy of getting hysterical over Russia attempting to influence foreign elections when Obama, like most US Presidents routinely did so.
Ok well that's fair. But sometimes integrity is important to national interests in our foreign policy and sometimes it isn't as important.
But we live in the era of Trump, for whom truth is a very relative thing to be discarded whenever it stops suiting him. So please forgive me if I didn't get the memo on how living up to our ideals and telling the truth were suddenly priorities for this administration.
@Toothless "Oh yes. I'm sure we have much to learn about power,...."
Stop with the straw men. When you used the term "world" you were actually referring to rich whites. I was pointing out that the "world" actually includes plenty of other poorer and darker people who may not share your opinion.
The right to tell a joke is 'earned'?
Of course it is. If you disagree then I invite you to take the stage at the next open-microphone night at your local comedy club. We'll see how well the audience believes you did to earn that right.
I am Laslo.
Yes, we know. Now back into your closet with you.
correcting my earlier comment:
This is so, so , so good Althouse.
"But we live in the era of Trump, for whom truth is a very relative thing to be discarded whenever it stops suiting him. So please forgive me if I didn't get the memo on how living up to our ideals and telling the truth were suddenly priorities for this administration."
This is rich coming from a person who makes unsubstantiated claims about other people, and then chooses to be called "piece if sh$t" rather than prove his claims or apologize for false claims.....
"Of course it is. If you disagree then I invite you to take the stage at the next open-microphone night at your local comedy club. We'll see how well the audience believes you did to earn that right."
I would argue that everyone has the right tell a joke; however, the laughter is what has to be earned.
And I love the "Now back into your closet with you" clip. Thank you.
I am Laslo.
Awwww.... did you want an apology, H. American?
I humbly, profusely, massively apologize. The example you set with those names is just too admirable for me to continue putting off your long-awaited amends.
You are the best WWII revisionist since, well, since whoever's up to ending European integration.
Do you now feel sufficiently flattered? I've tried to put an extra helping of flattery in there, for your benefit. A Putin/Trump-level of flattery.
I would argue that everyone has the right tell a joke; however, the laughter is what has to be earned.
Agreed.
And I love the "Now back into your closet with you" clip. Thank you.
You're welcome. And glad to see you have good taste in film clips. Definitely a great sign for anyone breaking into the comedy circuit. ;-)
Ritmo earned the cockholster right by sucking from the cock of Socialism for a lifetime. Kudos.
A compliment I just paid to Laslo was deleted.
Does the indecency here know no bounds?
I know it's a mistake to respond to Ritmo, who stated: "The right-wing's complacency with the abominations they're ok with this guy pulling off seems to fall under a category I'd call "political passives."
So, should we be burning cars and breaking windows when we don't get our way? Should we forcibly prevent liberal-leftist speakers from sharing their ideas in public?
"Passive" conservatives don't do that because they are much more likely to have reasonably good cognitive mediation of their emotions.
BTW, what "abominations are you talking about? I am making a big leap in assuming that you understand the word "abomination."
All right, fine. I've hit my comment quota; I get it.
Enjoy the balanced discussion. Peace out.
In the future though, it would be nice to know when compliments to other commenters are considered "beyond the pale."
Good point, Francisco D. I'd like to respond, but am at risk of "hogging the discussion."
In the meantime, just take pleasure in knowing that your rebuttal was posted after the purge, and will therefore stand without challenge.
You won! (By technical default)!
@ Toothless,
"COMMENTS ARE MODERATED
...don't make personal attacks on other commenters..."
If I put all your comments back up, will you please delete the ones that make personal attacks on other commenters?
You know, it seems to me that if you're going to campaign to lead a major Western nation it seems to me that you should be more aware of cyber security. Clinton, the DNC, Macron. They aren't at one with the realities of the 21st century.
If I put all your comments back up, will you please delete the ones that make personal attacks on other commenters?
You could, Meade. But in the interest of time - (both yours and mine), and out of respect for your very reasonable moderating standards, I'll just make it known that I agreed with what Laslo said about laughter and jokes and that his taste in movie clips is respectable and a good sign for his own success in comedic pursuits.
Sorry about the attacks. Keeping the rest deleted probably makes sense for now just as an easier way to redirect the discussion and getting it back on track to what Ann wanted.
Apologies once again. Have a great Saturday!
"The right to tell a joke is 'earned'?
Good to know humor is better left to those Who Have Earned The Right."
WE WILL HAVE NO UNAUTHORIZED JOKE TELLING ON THIS BLOG!
will you please delete the ones that make personal attacks on other commenters?
OMG ! Is moderation now going to occur ?
"Apologies once again."
Apologies accepted (once again).
Is moderation now going to occur ?
Perhaps. Why? Is it something you're able to abide by?
Francisco D,
I think conservatives absolutely need to start shutting down liberal speakers.... It was Obama who said we needed to punch twice as hard and get in their faces.... In today's America, the people are allowed to shout down the speakers they don't like, organize political riots, and destroy businesses which express wrong political views.
What I find puzzling about American conservatives is that they understand that they need to use violence against the violence of foreign totalitarians, but do not wish to respond to the violence of domestic totalitarians....
I didn't vote in this poll because the term "fake news" is meaningless now.
Does anyone who is on Facebook *not* have lefty friends posting lists of pre-existing conditions, including rape, that Republicans just made illegal to cover?
My friends are smart people who I swear to you are becoming unhinged and believing *everything*. And ranting about it publicly.
"Is moderation now going to occur ?"
Self-moderation is what we're going for. Thanks.
'Is moderation now going to occur'?
Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice. And moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue.
-Compared to the USA, everyone in France is a socialist.
-LePen is a french patriot, Macron isn't.
If LePen is a socialist, then why does media call her "far right"?
Anyway, LePen is indeed a socialist, who calls for more government control over the economy, more handouts, more rules and regulations. Indeed, both surviving candidates are abysmal. There was a decent candidate, Fallon, if I remember his name correctly, who was an actual right-winger, who supported less moslem immigration and free economy, but he lost. Right now, French people need to choose between horrible and miserable. I hope they have the wisdom to make the right decision.
rcocean said...
Compared to the USA, everyone in France is a socialist.
Much like the US house representatives when it comes to health care - a bunch of national socialists.
Liberals. Are. Nucking. Futs.
The American activists . . . have been regularly gathering on sites like 4Chan and Discord . . .
The tell words for how stoopid the Times article is: regularly and gathering.
Anthony said...
Liberals. Are. Nucking. Futs.
Good work Anthony. A solid contribution for your team. Concise, thoughtful and on topic.
Much like the US house representatives when it comes to health care - a bunch of national socialists.
Don't point and laugh at that man. He is just having a nervous breakdown.
There are no Nazis in the House of Representatives. There are on the streets of Berkeley, though. black clothes, masks and all.
Hyphenated American,
I understand your sentiments. However, I believe that America is a leader of the free world precisely because we use the public square (not the bomb, bullet or boxcutter) to voice our internal disagreements. Many other countries do not comprehend that way of operating.
We have sometimes intervened militarily because (1) it seems like the right, humanitarian thing to do and (2) it is the only useful "language" after diplomacy has been exhausted. We are not always right, but I believe there are usually good intentions.
I cannot imagine the horror of being a libertarian or conservative on today's college campus. (It was bad enough when I was the only one in my doctoral program to support Reagan in '84). Nonetheless, it is better to make them look foolish than to copy their fascist antics.
Their own internal contradictions will doom them. (Where did I her that line before?).
Michael K said...
There are no Nazis in the House of Representatives.
No one said there were. They are all members of national political parties, however, and they are all socialists, each and every one of them.
"Much like the US house representatives when it comes to health care - a bunch of national socialists."
Okay, is any explanation for this claim possible or likely?
Not so much fake news as ham-fisted narrative setting. Of course Macron is going to win. The Muzzies could blow up the Eiffel Tower this afternoon and Macron would still win. The Left desperately wants a W, any W. If a status quo candidate winning an election in France can somehow be cast as a victory for the valiant anti-Trumpian Resistance then, by God, they're going to supply the unicorn farts necessary to spin that narrative.
After Macron's win expect all kind of stories about how it's an international repudiation of Trump personally. Any port in a storm.
i do miss Python.
Cracker Emcee notes: After Macron's win expect all kind of stories about how it's an international repudiation of Trump personally.
I fully expect that. That is how predictably depressing the news has become.
Nonetheless, it is better to make them look foolish than to copy their fascist antics.
And we needn't make them look foolish as they do a bang-up job of it, themselves.
Or "depressingly predictable"
The Times is getting positioned for a noisy victory lap when Le Pen loses. Trumping is going nowhere. But Le Pen is not Trump and should lose. Macron should lose too
No one said there were. They are all members of national political parties, however, and they are all socialists, each and every one of them.
This sounds like a dodge, but OK. I don't disagree on the socialist part.
I'm not sure many are nationalists.
According to a post over on hotair.com, the French have a law forbidding the news media from publishing anything about the election from midnight Friday until the polls close. Given the timing of the dump, I'm changing my position and assume that the dumped documents are Dan Rather-type fake news, probably by mixing faked documents among real ones.
That doesn't change my comment at 10:33, to the effect that Macron should not be leading a major country if he is too backwards to understand cybersecurity in the 21st century.
Francisco....
I think your own message is doomed because of its own contradictions....
You talk about free peaceful exchange of ideas in America, and you immediately concede that the left fascists control campuses with violence and they not only silence conservatives, but terrify them. And most importantly, their control grows.
I am sure you know that "Devotion to the truth is the hallmark of morality". Moreover, contradictions don't exist in real world. American conservatives understand that you can meet force with force, and there is no other option. There is no possible negotiation or compromise with the nazis and fascists and communists. And yet, this is exactly what they call for in regards to American communists. "Let's accommodate their violence, appease their fascism, let's not fight back.... " Why? The people rioting on campus are the same brown shirts which would be dragging Jews to the ovens. The only answer to their violence is violence. The best way is for the police, the FBI to vigorously prosecute the fascist thugs.... but we know it is not happening. Violence today in the USA is an accepted form of political activity. As Rachel Maddow said (in a different situation, surely), "this is America today, this our country". Totalitarian thugs are inside the gates. And they are not shy about using violence to achieve their goals, nor believe there are any contradictions in their positions.
"Nonetheless, it is better to make them look foolish than to copy their fascist antics.
And we needn't make them look foolish as they do a bang-up job of it, themselves."
The left-wing thugs take control of one campus after another. They don't look foolish, they look like victors. They instill fear and horror in the hearts of students and administrators and businesses. Who dares to stand against them? No one. Even Ann Coulter decided not to come to Berkeley.
Berkelium is radioactive. So is Californium, for that matter.
After Macron's win expect all kind of stories about how it's an international repudiation of Trump personally.
I fully expect that. That is how predictably depressing the news has become.
Trump himself believes his election November was of a piece with Brexit, Le Pen, Erdogan, etc. If the right-wingers are now rejecting that he's a part of these movements, then fine by me. Until then, it's hard to see why the news shouldn't take him (and his followers abroad) at their word on that - as depressing as he/they are.
If I put all your comments back up, will you please delete the ones that make personal attacks on other commenters?
When it elevates to personal attacks and name calling, a comment provides insight into the current emotional investment of the person making the comment. Kind of interesting sometimes. Also interesting how some in this community are so familiar with each other.
I would just like to point out how Ritmo expressly endorsed gutting the 1st Amendment: He stated how the government should issue orders to the press here in the USA on what to cover and what not to cover.
Now, I have no idea whether Ritmo ever swore an oath to preserve the Constitution of the United States of America, but if so, he just violated it. Openly attacking the 1st Amendment? There's words for people who want to overthrow our Constitution.
--Vance
Seeing the world through milky toned eyes with cobwebs in the brain and scary phantoms in the attic? The narrative line changes---first it was the Russkies hacking US elections, now it's phantom right wingers hacking the French. It's fun time and looney tunes time inside the skull cavities (I hesitate to say "minds") of the left.
Interesting---today's New York Times speculates/fantasizes/hopes that "far right activists" hacked the candidate's e-mails. Across the pond The Daily Telegraph, aka "The Daily Torygraph" says that the Ruskkies hacked the e-mails.
Who knows? And more to the point, who cares?
Mr. Obama endorsing Mr. macron is probably the best endorsement Ms. Le Pen could hope for, if history is any guide.
"Mr. Obama endorsing Mr. macron is probably the best endorsement Ms. Le Pen could hope for, if history is any guide."
True, in most cases obama was on the wrong side of history.
I would just like to point out how Ritmo expressly endorsed gutting the 1st Amendment: He stated how the government should issue orders to the press here in the USA on what to cover and what not to cover.
Never said that. Where was it "expressly endorsed?"
Is lying about other commenters a form of attack?
Now, I have no idea whether Ritmo ever swore an oath to preserve the Constitution of the United States of America, but if so, he just violated it. Openly attacking the 1st Amendment? There's words for people who want to overthrow our Constitution.
And it looks like those words are, "Donald Trump."
And "Donald Trump," again.
Boy. He really does make it seem like one would lose a lot of credibility just to support him or his positions.
For Ritmo: your post, earlier this thread, and I quote:
Nice amateur opinion there, passivist. American courts impose gag orders, too. Maybe not in this way, but maybe they should.
/quote. At around 9:11, I think the timestamp was.
Wherein you endorse the government gagging the media. Right before you approvingly quoted a guy (Nance) who is calling for suicide bombings on Trump's property to which you certainly did not condemn the idea.
--Vance
I know the quote, Vance. I can read.
You said "expressly endorsed." You think phrasing like "maybe... should" is "express endorsement?"
Sounds like you and I are using the English language differently. I seem to think the words "maybe" and "should" have meaning. Perhaps you disagree.
As for gag orders, the courts do do this. Were you unaware of that? And courts are a branch of government, last I read in the Constitution. Are you saying that gag orders are unconstitutional? Do you have any legal precedent for an opinion like that? Don't you think if you did, something like that would have come up for review?
Nance made a joke. Just like when Trump made the supposed, so-called joke of pleading with the Russians publicly to commit security breaches by hacking someone else's email. Breaching someone's property - whether physically or electronically - are both crimes. Here's a primer.
So this revelation must put you in an interesting position. Do you defend destruction of property either when Trump or Nance jokes about requesting it, or do you object?
Now, let's remember that the president you'll undoubtedly defend says that his supporters would be ok with him murdering a man in broad daylight in Manhattan, so I suspect your loyalty to him as a person might overwhelm your ability to be consistent and decent on resolving this dilemma of the jokey destruction of property invitations.
Blogger The Toothless Revolutionary said..."
... So this revelation must put you in an interesting position. Do you defend destruction of property either when Trump or Nance jokes about requesting it, or do you object?
Kinda different when destruction of property includes killing the people in the property.
Kinda different when destruction of property includes killing the people in the property.
Other than the suicide bomber himself, I saw nothing in the tweet that advocated killing people in the property. Suicide bombers kill themselves alone from time to time, and I don't object to those outcomes, either.
We are getting further afield from the intended topic though, aren't we?
The Toothless Revolutionary said...
Kinda different when destruction of property includes killing the people in the property.
Other than the suicide bomber himself, I saw nothing in the tweet that advocated killing people in the property. Suicide bombers kill themselves alone from time to time, and I don't object to those outcomes, either.
"Trump Towers Istanbul are two conjoined towers in Şişli, Istanbul, Turkey. One of the towers is an office tower, and the other a residential tower, consisting of over 200 residences.[1] The complex also holds a shopping mall with some 80 shops and a multiplex cinema. They are the first Trump Towers built in Europe."
Avoiding the point doesn't obviate it:
http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/767535/ISIS-suicide-bomber-blows-up-attack-Syrian-rebels
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/nov/05/irish-isis-fighter-kills-himself-in-iraq-suicide-bombing
http://ktla.com/2016/07/03/suicide-bomber-kills-only-himself-after-detonating-explosive-near-u-s-consulate-in-saudi-arabia-report/
Should I take it that you object to suicide bombers who blow only themselves up?
Perhaps you are worried more about their own well-being than ours.
Oh, and here's a particularly fun one.
Mr Gorka should really like that one!
But I can understand if it disturbs you. There are plenty of people who are quite concerned about the well-being of these poor chaps.
Blogger The Toothless Revolutionary said...
Avoiding the point doesn't obviate it:
If you talkin; to me, the point is Trumps property has people living, working and shopping in it. Blowing it up kills people.
Oh, wait, you trollin' me by acting stupid, and I fell for it. Good one
So the anonymous ghost army is no longer just the source of NYT's calumny, it is now also its target.
It is becoming difficult to distinguish between the leftmedia's nameless, faceless informants and its nameless, faceless targets.
Oh well, there is space to fill and politicking to do.
https://theintercept.com/2017/05/06/no-macron-leaks-politically-motivated-hacking-not-whistleblowing/
"HERE’S SOME NEWS for the alt-right activists in the United States behind a disinformation campaign aimed at getting Marine Le Pen elected president of France by spreading rumors about her opponent, Emmanuel Macron: The French do not much like having their intelligence insulted by Americans.
According to Nicolas Vanderbiest, a Belgian academic who studies social networks, the hacked documents only began to attract attention after they were linked to on Twitter by Jack Posobiec, a Trump supporter who added the misleading hashtag, #MacronLeaks.
That theme was repeated again and again in France on Saturday, in response to reports that a trove of hacked documents — nine gigabytes of memos and emails stolen from Macron aides and posted online Friday night, just before a legally imposed blackout on statements from candidates took effect — was first publicized on social networks by pro-Trump propagandists.
Even though that fake “proof” of a secret Macron account was debunked in the French media, it continued to spread on social networks, successfully confusing some voters, who were also exposed to other forgeries shared by activists from Le Pen’s National Front.
Taken together, the effort to spread forged documents and the late release of genuine material hacked from Macron’s campaign, disguised as a “leak,” might be evidence of an intentional disinformation campaign, aimed at misleading voters into thinking real evidence of malfeasance by Macron had been provided to the media but was being suppressed."
Inga, I don't know what you think that means, but I work with some of the smartest young Frenchmen in America. They believe his venality, hacked vs leaked is pas d'import to them, and they believe the information is being effectively suppressed in France.
These are not right-wingers (don't care much about the may-december marriage), they just know their own system.
THAT'S WHY THEY'RE HERE, Inga.
Don't worry, they assured me that the Oedipal grafter will win. He may just have trouble forming his government.
"There are no Macron Leaks in France. Politically motivated hacking is not whistleblowing.
As Vanderbiest demonstrated in graphics that chart how awareness of the hacked documents spread across Twitter, a series of tweets from WikiLeaks drew much more attention to the trove — and helped validate it in the minds of many followers of the transparency organization, some of whom wrongly assumed that Wikileaks was the original source for publishing the documents."
"“What I get from this clumsy initiative is that it reveals just how much these people think of us as imbeciles,” the blogger Jean-Marc Lafon wrote on Twitter. “You can’t love France and be convinced that the French people are fools,” he added. “You can be a patriot and have a brain.”
As Nicolas Vanderbiest, the Belgian researcher, noted, earlier this week Posobiec and a network of followers and bots were also responsible for spreading an obviously forged document that they insisted was evidence that Macron had evaded French taxes by opening a secret bank account in the Bahamas. In that case, Posobiec had used the English-language hashtag #MacronGate, which, as Samuel Laurent of Le Monde noted, betrayed the fact that it did not originate in the French-speaking world."
You roll with your sources, Inga, and I'll roll with mine.
https://www.recode.net/2017/5/6/15568582/twitter-bots-macron-french-presidential-candidates-hacked-emails
"About 40 percent of the tweets using the hashtag #MacronGate, Perlroth noted, are actually coming from only 5 percent of accounts using the hashtag. One account tweeted 1,668 times in 24 hours, which is more than one tweet per minute with no sleep.
That account, along with the others in that 5 percent responsible for #MacronGate, appears to be automated, meaning there is no human at the helm but rather software.
Twitter appears not to have done anything to combat what is obviously a bot attack, despite the fact the social media company is well aware of the problem of bot accounts being used to falsely popularize political issues during high-profile campaigns to give the impression of a groundswell of grassroots support.
During the 2016 U.S. presidential election, bots sharing pro-Trump-related content outnumbered pro-Clinton bots by 7 to 1 during the third debate between the two candidates, according to research from Oxford University’s Project on Computational Propaganda. In the timespan between the first and second presidential debates, more than a third of pro-Trump tweets came from bot accounts."
In the timespan between the first and second presidential debates, more than a third of pro-Trump tweets came from bot accounts."
No surprise as Kushner was running a very effective new media campaign.
Inga, I can't tell if your reposting is intended to be a reply to me; if so it is inadequate. None of that matters, only whether the information in the exposed emails is accurate and inculpatory.
Bad L,
Au contraire mon' ami, it matters a great deal.
As Nicolas Vanderbiest, the Belgian researcher, noted, earlier this week Posobiec and a network of followers and bots were also responsible for spreading an obviously forged document that they insisted was evidence that Macron had evaded French taxes by opening a secret bank account in the Bahamas.
Why should I believe someone who says it was obviously forged when they didn't even notice it was not about an account in the Bahamas but in the Caymans? How do you examine a document and miss that?
These election shenanigans and coordinated nationalistic/fascist movements make me realize they're part of a new phenomena: The international(ist) right.
"The international(ist) right."
Oh dear. No one expects the internationalist Right!
I do hope you're correct, though. The totalitarian Left has been such a miserable and murderous failure for so long that it's a wonder that classical liberalism hasn't been resurgent sooner.
Oh dear. No one expects the internationalist Right!
Our chief weapon is surprise...surprise and fear...fear and surprise.... Our two weapons are fear and surprise...and ruthless efficiency...
The Toothless Revolutionary said...
These election shenanigans and coordinated nationalistic/fascist movements make me realize they're part of a new phenomena: The international(ist) right.
5/6/17, 6:48 PM
The implication of this is that things would be much better for America and France if the deviance and corruption of people like Clinton and Macron remain concealed and/or unchallenged even in plain sight. I hope you won't defend that upon reflection.
Once a new tactic has been tried and found successful, like hacks or getting leaks/moles or it will find imitators. You can't pretend that every expose is a Russian plot. And if it is what are you going to do about it? Hold your breath until you turn blue?
If anybody wants detailed hardcore explanations of whatever comes out on Macron from the Viewpoint of French Finance ears, I will attempt to refer those queries to my peeps, garcons et mecs in a reasonable fashion and revert with results.
Let me just say that yes Caymans not Bahamas. We know all about the Caymans, you betcha.
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