Althouse: The requirement that transgenders undergo sterilization before the government will change their gender identity on official documents.

April 13, 2017

The requirement that transgenders undergo sterilization before the government will change their gender identity on official documents.

This is, we are told, the law in Armenia, Azerbaijan, Belgium, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Bulgaria, Croatia, Czech Republic, Finland, Georgia, Greece, Latvia, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Montenegro, Romania, Russia, Serbia, Slovakia, Slovenia, Switzerland, Turkey, and Ukraine.

All of these countries belong to the European Convention on Human Rights, and The European Court of Human Rights has just held that the requirement violates Article 8 of the convention, which provides that "everyone has the right to respect for his private and family life, his home and his correspondence."

34 comments:

Danno said...: The EU deludes itself, if it thinks it will be able to bully their member states on artificial social justice matters like this. Brexit was only the beginning.; 4/13/17, 6:33 AM
Oso Negro said...: One thing that I greatly admire about Russia and most of the former Soviet states is that they are not drinking the rainbow Koolaid. A queer is still a queer. They have not gone along with the effort to normalize mainstream a particular sexual deviancy, nor enjoyed the rich fruit that has followed.; 4/13/17, 6:42 AM
Chris N said...: 2019: After fighting a long battle to prevent space mining, top Eurocrats settle to regulate the hell out of the industry. 'Late-capitalism' comes through!

2024: A new potential life form (bacteriological) is found on an asteroid

2025: Top EU officials engage in a flurry of activity never before seen. Does it have human rights? Is it transgender? Does the placement of chairs around the Council Table meet protocol?

2027: EU meetings grind to a halt during the first Grecian war. It is not formally dissolved but serves no purpose. The building is used as a command center; 4/13/17, 6:56 AM
rhhardin said...: It's a local custom.; 4/13/17, 7:02 AM
Bay Area Guy said...: This strange new fad to recognize, promote, and empower transgenderism will hurt several vulnerable, confused people.

I'm not for demonizing or marginalizing anyone. But that doesn't mean I have to "pretend" that every personal, faddish, sexual whim is normal. I don't hate Bruce/Caitlyn Jenner. I tolerate creative offbeat folks just fine. But that melodrama only works if you have $100 million in the bank following your manly pursuits such as Olympic decathalon training, lucrative Wheaties commercials, and "reality" tv shows.; 4/13/17, 7:36 AM
MadisonMan said...: If a person is taking a vigorous amount of hormones as part of conversion, does society want offspring to come out of that? What is the effect, for example, of mass amounts of whatever hormone a transitioning woman takes on her eggs? (His eggs?)

Things missing from the Times article: Why was this requirement enacted in the first place?; 4/13/17, 7:37 AM
Laslo Spatula said...: The Girl at Starbucks That Hates You:

We have several regular customers that are transgender. Doesn't mean much to me: customers are customers. Three of them typically order Mochas, No Whip. Just a coincidence, no doubt: I don't think there's anything about being transgender that makes you avoid whipped cream, just an observation...

There is a lot to observe when you work at a Starbucks. After a while, you learn to look without really looking, you know what I mean? For me, I don't care who you are, just be pleasant, okay? There's no need to be an asshole, and No, I don't set the prices: if you are unhappy about Starbucks being overpriced then -- really, folks -- go to McDonalds: it's just down the street. Clean restrooms. People are people, and coffee is coffee...

You know the customers that give ME the creeps? The greasy men who sit at the tables nursing their beverage with a laptop and surreptitiously staring at the young girls: we are a coffee shop, not your personal fantasy corral...

Of course, all the yoga pants don't make that situation any better: bend at the knees, girls, bend at the knees. Did you know there are websites where guys just post sneaked photos they take of young girls at Starbucks? And THESE are some of the people who come through my line. Great...

I am Laslo.; 4/13/17, 7:40 AM
tim in vermont said...: So even Trump has a right to privacy in his correspondence in Europe? Chuck would come on and tell me that it strictly applied to written letters, epistles rather than e-pistles, as it were.; 4/13/17, 7:53 AM
tim in vermont said...: The greasy men who sit at the tables nursing their beverage with a laptop and surreptitiously staring at the young girls: we are a coffee shop, not your personal fantasy corral...

Busted! And the girl at Starbucks does hate me. Well, one of them I think.; 4/13/17, 7:56 AM
tim in vermont said...: I always kind of liked "dykes" and I mean that sincerely. They had a place in our culture, and as people always say to those guys with small dicks who want surgery, you're perfect the way you are, I think maybe people should start saying that to these women more often.; 4/13/17, 8:00 AM
Saint Croix said...: "The requirement that transgenders undergo sterilization before the government will change their gender identity on official documents."

Boy that's a one-sided description of what's going on here. You must undergo sterilization. That sounds evil and wrong, because having a baby is such a natural part of human existence.

But you're volunteering for sterilization if you have a sex change!

A more honest reporting of these laws would be something like, "we will acknowledge your sex change after you have a sex change."; 4/13/17, 8:10 AM
Laslo Spatula said...: Ah, yes: Women of Starbucks.

Laslo is there for you.

I am Laslo.; 4/13/17, 8:15 AM
tim in vermont said...: I kind of disagree with one of those Women of Sbux posts. I think winter coats are sexy too, probably because I once banged a girl in a snowbank, I guess it was rape, I mean we were both drunk.; 4/13/17, 8:19 AM
Darrell said...: Thanks, Laslo!; 4/13/17, 8:21 AM
I Have Misplaced My Pants said...: The greasy men who sit at the tables nursing their beverage with a laptop and surreptitiously staring at the young girls: we are a coffee shop, not your personal fantasy corral...

Two stories, both true:

1. At a high school football game, I caught a local police officer taking burst shots of the cheerleaders from his post at the bottom of the bleachers. He wasn't even really trying to hide doing so. What a perv.

2. At a different high school football game, I sat behind a guy who kept semi-surreptitiously opening his phone to his tab of cheerleader porn.

I appreciate gentlemen who have some subtlety in managing their natural inclination to look at pretty young things.; 4/13/17, 8:23 AM
Laslo Spatula said...: You're welcome, Darrell.

And you've had some killer one-liners lately. Love them.

I am Laslo.; 4/13/17, 8:26 AM
Owen said...: Saint Croix: well put.; 4/13/17, 8:41 AM
ga6 said...: their country...their rules..EU has open borders..move..; 4/13/17, 8:53 AM
The Cracker Emcee Refulgent said...: "But you're volunteering for sterilization if you have a sex change! "

Woman to man, right?

Think about that one for about thirty seconds.; 4/13/17, 8:53 AM
Laslo Spatula said...: I picture the "The Girl at Starbucks That Hates You" as a Millennial who is free of the Insanity associated with the College Snowflakes. Works a thankless job, acerbic, socially liberal but in a 'stay out of my life, I'll stay out of yours' way...

I thought Althouse might appreciate a comment to this post that took a look at the transgender issue from a 'who cares?" perspective, avoiding the drama, so that was the character to go to...

I wonder if Althouse has ever noticed that some of my strongest, most centered characters are women: "The Girl at Starbucks That Hates You", "The Girl with the Pony Tail on the Treadmill"...

Most of my men characters? Probably can fit loosely under the umbrella of a David Foster Wallace short-story collection title: "Brief Interviews with Hideous Men." Creeps and guys who like to pee on women included...

Of course, thinking Althouse actually pays close attention to any of this is personal folly. Perhaps my next 'viewpoint' can be autobiographical: "Deluded Althouse Commenter Who Needs to Find Something Better To Do With His Time..."

I am Laslo.; 4/13/17, 8:56 AM
MaxedOutMama said...: So now we have "men" seeking pre-natal care?

More generally, some countries (including at least one of those liberal Scandinavian countries) have required that a person sign to be sterilized before getting what's now called "gender confirmation" treatment. However the reasoning for that was the result of the therapy to change secondary sexual characteristics to those of the non-biological sex would be to sterilize the patient (or severely impair natural fertility, for those who don't go all the way). Therefore that requirement took care of the medical ethics issues involved in providing the treatment.

Basically, most of these countries are requiring that one actually go through the gender change process before legally getting treated as the other gender. I don't see this as a human rights violation AT ALL.

This is a group of people with pretty profound psychological disorders, and not allowing individuals who might have other motives to easily legally change genders on passports, etc, has broader safety measures for the society as a whole.

This current theory that a group of mentally disturbed people should be overriding all of the institutions of sane society is extremely off, in my opinion. If that makes me a bigot, then fine, I am a bigot.

The insanity pops up most vividly in healthcare settings, where we have activists demanding that doctors not use words like "women" or "men" when discussing health topics such as Pap smears, prostate testing and prenatal care. This is as neurotic as it gets - insisting that all references to the biological sex be removed from the patient's health records may quite literally kill the patient.; 4/13/17, 9:13 AM
Static Ping said...: I'm sure Russia and Turkey will be quick to fall in line. (snicker); 4/13/17, 10:01 AM
The Cracker Emcee Refulgent said...: I doubt Belgium and Switzerland are hotbeds of reaction. This is probably more about protecting laws and benefits that are weighted toward actual, you know, women, than about keeping transgendered folks down.

Regardless, the intersectional absurdity of all this is delightful. This is how the political correctness dies.; 4/13/17, 10:25 AM
Unknown said...: So if I have my dog neutered.... Is it transgendered?; 4/13/17, 10:42 AM
eric said...: We are doing something like this in the United States that amounts to child abuse.

Parents are deciding their children are transgender and then going to the medical profession and getting hormone blockers to keep their children from ever entering into puberty.

This causes sterilization. For life.

Get that? Parents are sterilizing their children. With government and doctor approval.

Child abuse.; 4/13/17, 11:04 AM
I Have Misplaced My Pants said...: Laslo~

Your most enduring character is the voice who speaks to the unborn baby.; 4/13/17, 11:14 AM
Laslo Spatula said...: @ I Have Misplaced My Pants...

Thank you. Those are hard to write.

I am Laslo.; 4/13/17, 11:50 AM
Oso Negro said...: Blogger eric said...
We are doing something like this in the United States that amounts to child abuse.

We have been sexually mutilating infant boys for millenia on the authority of a purported deity.; 4/13/17, 11:57 AM
exiledonmainstreet, green-eyed devil said...: We have been sexually mutilating infant boys for millenia on the authority of a purported deity.

4/13/17, 11:57 AM

Cutting off foreskin does not stop a man from functioning sexually or fathering children. You might not like it and you can certainly argue that it is unnecessary (the majority of circumcisions done in the US were and are not done not for religious reasons but because of American zealousness about personal hygiene and aesthetics), but it is not equivalent to female circumcision. As for those that are done for religious reasons, do you wish to stop Jews from performing a ritual they have done for 4000 years? Even secular Jews get their sons circumcised - and of course, there's the Muslims. Good luck with that.; 4/13/17, 12:25 PM
exiledonmainstreet, green-eyed devil said...: Laslo~

Your most enduring character is the voice who speaks to the unborn baby.

4/13/17, 11:14 AM

I agree.; 4/13/17, 12:26 PM
Balfegor said...: The key fact, to me, is that Turkey and Russia have signed on to the European Convention on Human Rights, which tells me that it is actually kind of a joke. Is this judgment enforceable?; 4/13/17, 12:39 PM
Sam's Hideout said...: While male to female sexual reassignment includes sterilization as an effect, female to male is a more complicated story. Some may just remove their breasts and go on hormonal therapy, which doesn't necessarily result in permanent sterilization, in the short term at least.; 4/13/17, 12:59 PM
Gahrie said...: I can't wait until we start demanding equal rights for furries.; 4/13/17, 1:48 PM
eric said...: Blogger Oso Negro said...
Blogger eric said...
We are doing something like this in the United States that amounts to child abuse.

We have been sexually mutilating infant boys for millenia on the authority of a purported deity.

It doesn't amount to sterilization and results in health benefits. Not even remotely close to being the same thing.; 4/13/17, 3:36 PM