Said Donald Trump, acting out some crazy food theater with his old friend Chris Christie.
Christie chose to tell this story. He was on the "Boomer and Carton" sports radio show. The co-host Craig Carton reacted: "It's emasculating. Another man tells you what you’re eating and you eat it? Not acceptable. I don't care who he is."*
Christie defended his deference to Trump's ordering his food for him: "The guy eats there all the time, and the meatloaf was good."
But did Trump order meatloaf for Christie's wife. No: "He didn’t suggest the meatloaf to my wife... He could have told her if he wanted to, but he didn’t."
Of course, Trump didn't order for Christie's wife? The tradition is, a man orders for his wife. That's why Trump ordered for Christie and why it's emasculating.
But the meatloaf was good. It is good being Trump's wife. If that's what you want. That may be what you want, Governor Christie, but how has that worked out for you? He's never going to marry you. You need to get over your wishing and get on with your life. Think about yourself. What do you really want?
_________________________
* Transcription by me, from audio at the link.
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62 comments:
I don't know what to think about this. If it had been me, I'd have told him thanks but I'm in the mood for poultry today. I might still have had my arm twisted into eating meatloaf, but my take on Trump is that he doesn't much value yes-men.
I would do anything for lunch (but I won't do that.)
If Trump tried to make me order the meatloaf, I'd be out of there like a bat out of hell.
Goodness. If I go to dinner with a person who is knowledgeable about a place that is unfamiliar to me, I am delighted to try a recommendation. I would think that a person who worried about being manly enough because someone else ordered has issues.
I don't trust anyone who would object to the meatloaf.
So he was testing a new brand, the Trump Meatloaf. Ivanka has to eat Kosher, so he has to do that part of the marketing. And who better to test it on than a man who has eaten everything in a high volume. Did he make Christie eat the new Trump Tripple Fudge Desert Cake too?
That Christie chose to tell the story says more about Christie than it says about Trump.
It is of course emasculating. Also, meatloaf is never good.
Good grief, it's not emasculating, it is a bonding gesture. To refuse it would have been a bit insulting.
Craig Carton is a professional loudmouth and blowhard, simply trying to stir up controversy.
Do we know the name ot the restaurant, because I'd like to try the meatloaf.
Psychobabble Ann. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.
Trump was taking responsibility for showing his guest a good time; it makes clear who is the guest, but it's not effeminizing.
It's not different from come in here and take a look at this, showing the place off.
Christie takes responsibility for his own wife, another man to man thing.
That Christie chose to tell the story says more about Christie than it says about Trump.
Yes, it does. Now if Trump had said, "Chris, you have a glass of water because you're too fat."
That would have been emasculating.
Also, meatloaf is never good.
I make a terrific meatloaf. It's fantastic.
I recommend a delightful Meatloaf Recipe. Loaf Pan. 500 grams Ground Beef, 2 eggs, dried bread crumbs, Curry Powder, Cumin Powder, Salt, and Parmesan cheese. Bake 1 hour +, 400 oven.
How to tell a pussy from a meatloaf Kliban.
In Trumpland, a Man orders for his Wife/Partner. In Progressive land, a Man and Wife/Partner order individually.
From net.cooks
ENCOIGNURE LOAF
1 1/2 pounds encoignure, ground
1/2 cup medium cracker crumbs
2 beaten eggs
1 8-ounce can tomato sauce
1/4 cup finely chopped onion
2 tablespoons chopped green pepper
dash dried thyme, crushed
dash dried marjoram, crushed
Combine all ingredients and 1 teaspoon salt; mix well.
Shape mixture into a loaf in a baking dish. Bake at 350
degrees about 1 1/4 hours. Makes 6 to 8 servings.
Good grief, it's not emasculating, it is a bonding gesture.
This is how I would take it. This person with whom I am close is sharing a little gift of knowledge with me.
Of course I hate meatloaf and would never eat it.
Darrell, I hope to find some other way to gain your trust.
Christie could've regained his masculinity by accepting the command and then, when the awful meatloaf arrived, proceeding to eat both his and the loaf on Trump's plate.
That would be a twofer: simultaneously demonstrating that he's more man than Trump, and that he doesn't really care that he's fat.
Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.
Unless BJ Clinton has a hold of it.
he's more man than Trump, and that he doesn't really care that he's fat.
And he was hungry.
He's always hungry.
"The tradition is, a man orders for his wife. That's why Trump ordered for Christie and why it's emasculating."
No where does it say that Trump ordered for him. And I've had this done to me plenty of times where there was a house specialty.
"The tradition is, a man orders for his wife. That's why Trump ordered for Christie and why it's emasculating."
Stretching a bit here, I think.
We don't know who invited, what were the circumstances of the invitation, and particularly we don't know who was lining up to pay.
The paying person gets deference to order not necessarily arising from Freud.
Men eat meatloaf with mashed potatoes. Trump was saying, "We men will eat meat(loaf)."
Two Bro's Bonding.
A good meatloaf is good the first night with ... anything starchy, then better the next day at lunch for a man sized sandwich.
You can't beat buttered white bread with lots of butter covered with mashed potatoes and brown gravy. I'm surprised nobody serves it.
It's the second helping in school cafeterias when they're out of roast beef.
Some women do not like men ordering for them - even if they've told the man (husband, date, prospect) exactly what they want.
We need a new book of etiquette.
I think President Trump realized Christie has an eating disorder. So it wasn't so much the "meat loaf," but the relative portion.
Left to his own devices, Christie may have ordered 4 fried chickens and a coke.
Two psychiatrists pass each other on the sidewalk. One says "Good morning!". The other pauses and thinks "Now what do you suppose he meant by that?".
Meatloaf: I use a James Beard recipe that was published about 40 years ago. Good stuff. But here's a tip from Beard. You don't just mix the ingredients. You put your hands in it and start squeezing. Almost as much fun a popping bubble wrap. The idea is to make a very dense loaf that is like a Pâté. You don't eat it hot. It makes great sandwiches the next day.
This echoes the story about Fred Trump over-ruling Ivana's order of fish at a restaurant. Different in that Donald was not insisting on total conformity (technically-not-a-fascist), but a power play nonetheless. Christy was his pet, if not his bitch.
Meatloaf is having a big week: It was also in the news re Chuck Schumer.
"Meatloaf: I use a James Beard recipe that was published about 40 years ago."
The recipe I use was in Gourmet magazine back when I subscribed to it. It had a great travel section that I used to clip and save.
Sadly, like many nice things, it is no more.
If Obama had insisted that some colleague have the meatloaf, then most of the same people who found the Trump-Christie exchange objectionable for some silly reason or another, would have found Obama's gesture to have come from pure love.
"Meatloaf is having a big week: It was also in the news re Chuck Schumer."
The recipe I use has 1/3 ground pork and 2/3 ground beef.
And dry white toast.
1. Bonding gesture. 2. Trump saying: Chris, you don't have to pretend you're dieting here. Forget the salad. I'm not here to judge; enjoy. 3. Trump testing: if I get a sense he really doesn't like meatloaf, will he have the guts to say no? to get up and walk away? or will he just roll over? 4. Christie outing himself as faux-alpha insecure hombre, Jersey shtick notwithstanding.
David Baker: Some women do not like men ordering for them - even if they've told the man (husband, date, prospect) exactly what they want.
We need a new book of etiquette.
Is there a time or place where it is (or was) considered correct for a man to order for a woman without finding out what she wants first?
I'm just shy of 60, and I don't think I've eaten anywhere, here or abroad, where the waiter does not address madame directly to get her order. But I'm a bistro, brasserie, and "family-run restaurant stumbled upon in a side street" kind of gal, so the protocols of swankier (or more louche) dining are outside of my experience.
Trump knows Christie well and no doubt knew he would like the meatloaf. He wasn't being demeaning, he was doing him a favor.
Another PR problem. Meatloaf just needs a better slogan, and maybe a new name.
Meatloaf. The other brown crap that smells like dog food.
Hey, everybody, it's Meatloaf Night!
It's not meatloaf. It's meat-mattress!
If you're not up for meatloaf, consider the meatmuffin. No, not the Senator sitting next to you.
I think you're all missing the implication here. Not of what Trump said, but of what Althouse said.
Am lazy and so don't ordinarily cook (beyond steaming and microwaving) but am really wanting a good meatloaf at seven o'clock this morning, tsk. Maybe it's time to try out Whole Food's or Market of Choice's.
I'm the cook in our home. I like meatloaf - my husband doesn't really care for it. Some times I make it anyway because I want it. What does that say about me? Love taking a meatloaf sandwich to work the next day for lunch. I bring lots of catsup. Yum.
Althouse misses the psychological subtext.
Food for Christie is a sex substitute.
Trump was inviting Christie to join him in a ménage à trois.
"He didn’t suggest the meatloaf to my wife... He could have told her if he wanted to, but he didn’t."
That would be wife swapping.
Bob Ellison said...
It is of course emasculating. Also, meatloaf is never good.
Bob, I am going to guess you have never been to the Franklin Hotel in Rome, NY (on Thursday, IIRC).
My, my, the things that get people's knickers in a twist.
Of course Trump should be impeached over this.
Of course Trump has established himself as THE alpha male by doing this.
Or he just made a suggestion at a restaurant.
I doubt Obama ever ordered meatloaf in his life.
Sometimes, I think, we have to take things at face value instead of looking for slights. Reminds me of Woody Allen in Annie Hall. Jew Eat?
"Chris, have a salad" would have been more insulting, but more warranted.
Beard called for beef/pork/lamb. I love lamb. Mutton stew and fry bread. Used to be cheap. Now it costs more than tenderloin. And duck. When was the last time you saw duck at the Piggly Wiggly? The country's gone to Hell, I tell you.
Angel-Dyne said...
"Is there a time or place where it is (or was) considered correct for a man to order for a woman without finding out what she wants first?
No, but; whenever we ate at an authentic Italian restaurant, she always ordered Veal Parmesan. After studying the menu, she'd say, "I think I'll have the veal, parmesan."
The conflict arose after our divorce:
"Waiter, the lady will have veal par..."
"WAIT A MINUTE! I'LL ORDER FOR MYSELF!"
Which caught me by surprise. Her defensiveness, that is. After all, she had already reiterated her order, so it wasn't like I didn't know precisely what she wanted. But apparently the very idea that a man - any man - was ordering for her, went beyond the pale. (Which I silently attributed to her seven years of living in Southern California)
The larger point is, however; what's considered proper or acceptable in today's world?
I love meatloaf, but not allowed, normally, to eat it (too many carbs). Unless my partner makes it. One of the great things about MT is the meat. Found a guy last summer in Kallispell who raises his own bison and elk. Plus her ex has a deal going with a neighbor that he supplies the machinery and hands to harvest his hay and alfalfa, plus a head or two of grain fed beef he raises, and they split the proceeds. Last fall, shortly before we left for the winter, she made meatloaf from the elk mixed with the beef. Even better than when she mixes in bison. As others have pointed out here, it just depends on how you make it.
@Baker - the idea of ordering for a woman is one of those things that is somewhat foreign to me. Never understood the logic. Always been with opinionated women. But, we are trying to figure this out as we go along. Apparently, the trick is to solicit a woman's preferences beforehand, then masterfully relay them to the waiter. On the one hand, my partner thinks that this is part of my job, but on the other, she invariably gets impatient, and starts overriding and correcting my ordering. She is very picky.
She grew up in a place where this was expected. A lot of alpha males strutting their alphaness. She had to train her ex that a lot of what he thought that she should eat, or want to eat, she couldn't, or wouldn't. And ordering food for her that she couldn't, or didn't want to, eat was a red flag when dating. Happened too often - which is part of why it is funny that she ended up with me. She expects guys to order for her, but really doesn't like the results when they do. Go figure. So, I take the easy way out, ordering the main dish for her, that she has pre-selected, letting her jump in and provide all her special changes, additions, and deletions, then jumping back in to remind her of things that she has forgotten. Seems to work, but not nearly as masterful as what she expects (but doesn't really like).
Who can forget Kasich shoveling in the food?
Meatloaf - the other white meat. Also known as 'punishment meat'. Don't ask.
Offering meat to another man is never emasculating. Quite the opposite. "You, you are worthy of eating meat."
If he had ordered a salad for Christie it would have been emasculating.
Trump is an alpha male? Wow, revelation!
Meatloaf is a beautiful basis for flavor experimentation beyond the basics(meats,bread,eggs).Change everything add different spices,different breads,sauces,aromatics,veggi.Meatloaf is really only for the inventive and adventurous.And yes every meatloaf I have ever had makes great sandwiches.And anyone who doesnot realize that a meat loaf is just a simply named terrine and is related to Pate has not really studied food ways.
'Hey, Donald. Are you going to finish your dessert ?'
Presumably Trump paid for the whole damn thing. So basically he was the host.
Really now, how many people are so obnoxious and manufacture offense when they go to someone's house for dinner and when it is placed on the table they say to the host or hostess, "I don't like what you're serving. Can I have something else?"
Say that, and you can expect the response to be, "Certainly. Happy to oblige. You can have my foot up your ass kicking you out the door."
What a wonderful thing to do for a friend. He might even order for the ladies if he had a strong preference without letting them open their mouths. At the end of the meal he asks "was I right or not?" Great meatloaf is a real treat. No you can't have my chef without clearing his schedule with Melania. And it'll cost you, there's none better. They line up for blocks for that meatloaf. And mashed potatoes to die for with green bean casserole. Just like my mother used to make." "Ok, you're right, I'm the creature from the black lagoon, here to drain the swamp, yum, yum."
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