Althouse: "One problem with hyperbolically calling it a 'Muslim ban': you end up with headlines like 'Most Americans support Muslim ban.'"

February 1, 2017

"One problem with hyperbolically calling it a 'Muslim ban': you end up with headlines like 'Most Americans support Muslim ban.'"

Says John Althouse Cohen, commenting on a new Slate article: "First Muslim Ban Poll Finds Americans Support Trump Order by 7-Point Margin."

The poll referred to in that headline (by Reuters/Ipsos) asked the question in a way that tipped people more negatively than another poll. In that other poll, by Rasmussen, likely U.S. voters favored Trump's policy by a 23-point margin.

112 comments:

Michael K said...: The Longest Suicide Note in History. We are watching a political party commit suicide.; 2/1/17, 12:25 PM
SGT Ted said...: Its' another attempt to run the usual guilt trip using shaming language by lying about what the policy is.

It is of a piece with the narrative that "you're a racist if you support Trumps policies". It's just more SJW circular logic bullshit.; 2/1/17, 12:26 PM
eric said...: It's amazing to me how sincerely they continue to self destruct.

But what is pissing me off is, good hearted, knowledgeable people, keep trying to stop them and give them good advice.

Shut the hell up! Let them self immolate. We want them to dial it up to 11 on Bannon. On Gorsuch. On Sessions. On Executive Orders. Etc.

Pretty soon, people will stop listening.; 2/1/17, 12:28 PM
Bob Boyd said...: I heard Fox is getting $5M for a thirty second ad during the Superbowl this year.

InBev owned Anheuser-Busch will run this 1 minute, immigration-themed commercial.

Are they about to spend $10M to damage their brand?

https://youtu.be/HtBZvl7dIu4; 2/1/17, 12:28 PM
David said...: Michael K said...
The Longest Suicide Note in History. We are watching a political party commit suicide.

Yeah, but which one?; 2/1/17, 12:31 PM
n.n said...: Since the majority of the global Muslim population are unaffected, this is clearly not a [class] diversity policy. It's not even a character judgment, since principled alignment does not trigger greater scrutiny.; 2/1/17, 12:34 PM
Mike (MJB Wolf) said...: They never learn. My mom's friend worked for Norman Lear back in the All in the Family days and it drove the production house crazy that the things they gave Archie to say -- with what they thought was ironic intent on their part -- proved extremely popular with the public at large.

Instead of "what a bigot" the reaction was "finally someone's giving it to the hippies and the layabouts!"; 2/1/17, 12:34 PM
Hagar said...: They are just trying to make Moslems in the U.S. a reliable Democratic voter block regardless of actual governing policies.; 2/1/17, 12:38 PM
Sydney said...: That "Muslim Ban" tag is really starting to irk me. Our local paper has been full all this week with stories about the "Muslim Ban" and how the righteous politicians in our community are speaking out against it. They aren't honest at all about the true scope of the executive order.; 2/1/17, 12:38 PM
Achilles said...: The democrat party now owns sharia law and ISIS. They are the party of female genital mutilation and forced marriage. Democrats throw gay people off of roofs.

Two can play at this game and guess who is winning.; 2/1/17, 12:38 PM
Sebastian said...: "They never learn." I don't think that's it. They are fighting the culture/framing war, 24/7, knowing full well that the deplorables despise them -- but betting that, soon or down the line, the coastal elites will sway enough minorities and nice white women and young people to turn the tide once and for all. Trump proved them wrong, temporarily -- adding to the outrage. But the bet is not irrational.; 2/1/17, 12:39 PM
Achilles said...: David said...

Yeah, but which one?

The party that thinks it is ok to wipe Israel off the face of the map.; 2/1/17, 12:40 PM
Mike (MJB Wolf) said...: Bob Boyd, I don't think so. America loves a good immigrant story. But the left has studiously ignored and obfuscated the fact we have a helluva lot of bad immigrant stories that have colored people's perceptions. I've already heard people try to link old Adolphus Busch immigrating with his family fortune and a beer recipe with the teeming masses of Syrian men posing as "refugees" and the swarms of illegal aliens who have been encouraged to cross our southern border. It ain't working. And the stories out of Dearborn and the Twin Cities that the MSM suppresses find their way out into the public now and we know that the system is broken.

Also, liberals have no shame in ignoring history. We had decades at a time when we stopped letting people in and other times when we welcomes everyone. A policy somewhere in between cannot really be called extreme by anyone who knows the past. And relying on ignorance to pass your policies appears to have expired as a valid strategy on November 8, 2016.; 2/1/17, 12:40 PM
Drago said...: David: "Yeah, but which one?"

I'm not sure, though I have to believe the party that gained over 1200 seats at all levels in the last 6 years, retained control of the White House, Senate, House and extended it's lead in Governorships and state houses might NOT be the one in immediate trouble.

I hope this helps.; 2/1/17, 12:40 PM
traditionalguy said...: The Obama Dem Party is gone now. We are watching the corpse blow up and rot into smelly carnage..; 2/1/17, 12:46 PM
Larry J said...: Bob Boyd said...

I heard Fox is getting $5M for a thirty second ad during the Superbowl this year.

InBev owned Anheuser-Busch will run this 1 minute, immigration-themed commercial.

Are they about to spend $10M to damage their brand?

If they don't show or know the difference between legal and illegal immigration, then perhaps yes. For the record, my wife and stepsons are legal immigrants. So is my daughter-in-law and many of our family friends. Legal immigrants, each and every one. They went through the trouble to come here legally and become taxpaying citizens. I guess in the eyes of the Left, that makes them chumps.; 2/1/17, 12:46 PM
furious_a said...: "One problem with hyperbolically calling it a 'Muslim ban'..."

#FAKENEWS: the largest Muslim populations (by country in order) are not on the banned list: Indonesia, India, Nigeria, Egypt, Bangladesh and so for and so on. Not even a ban against Arabs, since Egypt, Lebanon and others are not on the list.

Bears repeating since the distinction is lost on the people propagating it.; 2/1/17, 12:51 PM
Virgil Hilts said...: Per NY Times (few days ago): More than 1,000 Cuban migrants who endured months long treks across as many as 10 countries to reach the United States are marooned in Mexico, halted by the Obama administration’s decision this month to end special immigration privileges for Cubans who make it to the American border.
At least give the NY Times credit for covering; But how many protesters took to the street over this? If Trump had issued the same Cuban immigrant order as Obama, would the reaction have been the same?; 2/1/17, 12:51 PM
furious_a said...: Also, liberals have no shame in ignoring history.

George Takei pimps for the party that in his own living memory threw him and his family into an internment camp.; 2/1/17, 12:53 PM
Michael K said...: David,

Michael K said...
The Longest Suicide Note in History. We are watching a political party commit suicide.

Yeah, but which one?

Watch and see. If what Trump is doing with taxes and regulation doesn't work, we are probably screwed as a society.

I assume you are OK with that.

I think it will work and sold my gold after the election.

I also moved to Arizona which is much less crazy than California.

I guess we will find out who is right.; 2/1/17, 12:53 PM
furious_a said...: We are watching a political party commit suicide.

If only they'd off themselves in the privacy of their own bathrooms.

If only.; 2/1/17, 12:57 PM
Bay Area Guy said...: I have many liberal family members, neighbors, work colleagues and friends. There's a few sane ones among this group. To the sane ones, I ask: From a big picture general perspective, do you want a more lax border (easier to enter USA) or a more strict border (harder to enter USA)?

And if you don't want a more lax border, then you start this discussion alligned with Mr. Trump. Yes, it's that simple.; 2/1/17, 1:00 PM
furious_a said...: If Trump had issued the same Cuban immigrant order as Obama, would the reaction have been the same?

The Democrats would have called them "Coconuts".; 2/1/17, 1:04 PM
rehajm said...: Anheuser-Busch will run this 1 minute, immigration-themed commercial.

Drink Bud during the game and get a felony DWI on the way home, you'll never get into Canada. Where's the outrage!???; 2/1/17, 1:07 PM
mockturtle said...: InBev owned Anheuser-Busch will run this 1 minute, immigration-themed commercial.

I think they alienated a few Bud Light drinkers with their stupid 'gender is a spectrum' commercial last year.; 2/1/17, 1:13 PM
mockturtle said...: I think a lot of Progressives' disbelief is rooted in their having believed their own polls. They honestly think most Americans favor their ridiculous and extreme measures because some idiotic polls said so. Guess again, lefties!; 2/1/17, 1:15 PM
Alexander said...: Shut the hell up! Let them self immolate. We want them to dial it up to 11 on Bannon. On Gorsuch. On Sessions. On Executive Orders. Etc.

Yes.

I have actually stopped telling liberals that Trump isn't literally Hitler and I wish they'd stop exaggerating, because to be frank, I want them to think he's literally Hitler.

I want every liberal in the country to wake up in frustrated tears thinking that if they don't go out TODAY and protest against all 600 fronts that Trump is #Winning on, then they are going to put in a camp and starved until they personally shoot a Muslim.

I want them writing their Congressman demanding the secession of California. I want them screaming in the streets that old white people need to die. I want them demanding Democrat Senators in Indiana, North Dakota, Missouri, and West Virginia engage in utterly meaningless filibusters and opposition votes.

And then I want them to go to bed, knowing that nothing changed, Trump is still president, refugees are not teeming to our shores, Jeff Sessions is the Attorney General, and they have to get up and do the whole thing all over again, like some SJW variant of Groundhog's Day.

Except tomorrow is different, because Trump just fired a bunch of 'indispensable' progressive cogs. So they'd better protest that, too.

By 2018 there won't be anything left of the party but a greasy smudge of tears and blue hair dye.; 2/1/17, 1:19 PM
Ignorance is Bliss said...: mockturtle said...

I think they alienated a few Bud Light drinkers with their stupid 'gender is a spectrum' commercial last year.

I don't recall the commercial, but if it pointed out just where on the spectrum Bud Light drinkers were, that would probably get their panties in a twist.; 2/1/17, 1:27 PM
Ignorance is Bliss said...: Alexander said...

...and they have to get up and do the whole thing all over again, like some SJW variant of Groundhog's Day.

Except tomorrow is different, because...

...it actually is Groundhog's Day.; 2/1/17, 1:29 PM
Jamie said...: I'm worried about the "Muslim ban" tag. Every time the American people indicate their support for the actual action of this EO, that approval is being painted in (and by) the press as approval for a ban on all Muslims' entering the country, which only reinforces the prejudices of the so-called "elites" (I prefer "elitists") against the rest of the American populace. Those people do not need any more encouragement to look down on their fellow citizens. And we fellow citizens don't need any more temptation to dismiss the conceits of those who seem ever more convinced that they are our betters.

Society is better served by the free flow of ideas, and this deepening divide seems to me only to cement people's judgments about one another. We all risk ignoring one another's legitimate contributions to human knowledge just because we have determined that those other guys who support/don't support this policy are obviously too dumb to have any good ideas.; 2/1/17, 1:31 PM
Larry J said...: Michael K said...
The Longest Suicide Note in History. We are watching a political party commit suicide.

Perhaps. We must be vigilant that they don't make it a murder-suicide and take the rest of the country out with them.; 2/1/17, 1:31 PM
Matt Sablan said...: "George Takei pimps for the party that in his own living memory threw him and his family into an internment camp."

-- Remember, the Great Party Shift of Whenever It Is Convenient To Argue It Happened happened, and, POOF! Democrats and Republicans switched places.; 2/1/17, 1:32 PM
MaxedOutMama said...: Maybe those headlines are part of their strategy?

The Dems/hard left may be trying to justify some unreasonable tactics by an attempt to depict an unreasonable situation.

That thought crossed my mind because I was reading DU, where the senate committee votes on nominations held without Dems are described as a "coup", and the end of constitutional democracy is stated to be just around the corner.; 2/1/17, 1:37 PM
Gusty Winds said...: Trumps's Executive Orders are on the majority side of the polling because most Americans are smart enough to know its not a Muslim ban. We just don't want to be Paris, Cologne, Brussels, or Stockholm.

It's a refreshing pause. At least it sends the signal that on the books border policies will be enforced and not ignored for the purposes of cheap labor and cheap votes.

Oh...and were are also not as stupid as the Europeans.; 2/1/17, 1:37 PM
furious_a said...: Remember, the Great Party Shift of Whenever It Is Convenient To Argue...

Most awesome re-branding job ever. Bill Clinton hung a Pres. Medal of Freedom around J. William Fulbright's (Civil Rights Act Filibuster) neck and nobody batted an eye.; 2/1/17, 1:45 PM
Mike (MJB Wolf) said...: Most Bud Light sold in CA is purchased by Mexican-American men between 21 and 35. They really stepped on their own crank with THAT commercial. Amy Schumer is a repellent to most red-blooded men of any age or ethnicity.; 2/1/17, 1:48 PM
Achilles said...: The left can ban refugees from cuba who have been coming here for years, integrate wonderfully, and in general becoming wonderful productive citizens.

Then they go and get mad when about 10% of the worlds muslims can't come here for 3 months from a small number of countries they themselves determined have a problem with terrorism. This despite the fact that muslims decidedly do not integrate well into modern society and end up on public assistance. 91% of muslim refugees are on food stamps

The difference between the two groups? Who they vote for.

Progressives are not good people. In fact they are straight up enemies of freedom and the country is catching on.; 2/1/17, 2:00 PM
Unknown said...: the media got it wrong when they predicted clinton would lose based on polling. so why should i trust the same people when they say a majority of americans support this policy?; 2/1/17, 2:01 PM
Achilles said...: MaxedOutMama said...
Maybe those headlines are part of their strategy?

The Dems/hard left may be trying to justify some unreasonable tactics by an attempt to depict an unreasonable situation.

That thought crossed my mind because I was reading DU, where the senate committee votes on nominations held without Dems are described as a "coup", and the end of constitutional democracy is stated to be just around the corner.

We can only hope they try something. It will only be a temporary disturbance though while we clean the problem up.; 2/1/17, 2:02 PM
Achilles said...: vicari valdez said...
the media got it wrong when they predicted clinton would lose based on polling. so why should i trust the same people when they say a majority of americans support this policy?

Because any decent human being would come to the conclusion that keeping the number of people who believe in sharia law to as small a number as possible is a good thing for or country.

We can also point to Obama's recent ban on Cuban refugees and say that you people are completely and totally full of shit.; 2/1/17, 2:05 PM
Rosalyn C. said...: I'm seeing a lot of young Muslims (from young children to college students) being brainwashed by all of this and expressing their belief that the US is anti-Muslim, thanks to the manipulative and cynical political media and the do-gooder anti-Trump liberals demonstrating at airports and online.

I'm assuming the Democrat politicians know they are being dishonest and inaccurate. I noticed Hillary and Chelsea were emboldened yesterday to criticize the "Muslim ban." Extremely irresponsible.

I never thought I would be grateful to have changed my party affiliation when I chose to vote for Trump in the primary election.; 2/1/17, 2:08 PM
Freder Frederson said...: We can also point to Obama's recent ban on Cuban refugees

This thread is about how unfair it is to call Trump's EO a Muslim Ban (and I agree, it is unfair), but easily claim that Obama implemented a ban on Cuban refugees. Hypocrites much. Obama did not ban Cuban refugees, he merely ended their special status that allowed them to stay and apply for permanent residency if they managed to get to U.S. soil. They can still apply for refugee status just like anyone else (except those from the seven countries in the EO, which by the way is a direct violation of our treaty obligations).; 2/1/17, 2:16 PM
Michael K said...: I'm here in Arizona in a house we just moved into and talking to small business guys with electrical businesses and pool service and contractors. I don't hear anything negative about Trump and I think these are the people who are not lefties, even though some are Hispanic, and they seem busy.

Maybe they are just good at hiding political opinions. Our real estate gal, who sold us the house, is also a painter and has a painting in her house that copies the Vatican painting of God touching Adam's finger except her version shows God as female. If anyone would be a radical feminist, it would be her but she jokes about Trump and gives no sign of any Trump paranoia. Maybe she also is good at hiding it and we haven't had long talks about it but I'm getting the feeling that the left is getting convinced they have more supporters than they have. Maybe outside the LA and SFO bubbles and the Boston/NYC bubbles, they are dreaming.

Also, there is an interesting discussion about Hollywood and the coming iTunes and Napster thing online at, of all places, Vanity Fair. Is it possible they are going back to non-political articles ?

A few months ago, the vision of Hollywood’s economic future came into terrifyingly full and rare clarity. I was standing on the set of a relatively small production, in Burbank, just north of Los Angeles, talking to a screenwriter about how inefficient the film-and-TV business appeared to have become. Before us, after all, stood some 200 members of the crew, who were milling about in various capacities, checking on lighting or setting up tents, but mainly futzing with their smartphones, passing time, or nibbling on snacks from the craft-service tents. When I commented to the screenwriter that such a scene might give a Silicon Valley venture capitalist a stroke on account of the apparent unused labor and excessive cost involved in staging such a production—which itself was statistically uncertain of success—he merely laughed and rolled his eyes. “You have no idea,” he told me.

Oh Oh.; 2/1/17, 2:17 PM
Michael K said...: easily claim that Obama implemented a ban on Cuban refugees. Hypocrites much. Obama did not ban Cuban refugees,

Freder, the field marshall, is going to explain to us how Cuban refugees can get here legally.

They just go to the US consulate and apply for immigration visas, right Freder ?

And they they go to prison.; 2/1/17, 2:19 PM
Michael K said...: Then they go to prison.; 2/1/17, 2:19 PM
Unknown said...: Achilles said...
vicari valdez said...
the media got it wrong when they predicted clinton would lose based on polling. so why should i trust the same people when they say a majority of americans support this policy?

Because any decent human being would come to the conclusion that keeping the number of people who believe in sharia law to as small a number as possible is a good thing for or country.

We can also point to Obama's recent ban on Cuban refugees and say that you people are completely and totally full of shit.
2/1/17, 2:05 PM

lol @ "you people"; 2/1/17, 2:24 PM
Unknown said...: lol @ the rest of that comment too; 2/1/17, 2:25 PM
Achilles said...: Freder Frederson said...
We can also point to Obama's recent ban on Cuban refugees

This thread is about how unfair it is to call Trump's EO a Muslim Ban (and I agree, it is unfair), but easily claim that Obama implemented a ban on Cuban refugees. Hypocrites much.

What happens to cubans who try to come to the US Freder? What happens to you if you apply for a US travel visa in Cuba?

"Effective immediately, Cuban nationals who attempt to enter the United States illegally and do not qualify for humanitarian relief will be subject to removal," Obama said. "By taking this step, we are treating Cuban migrants the same way we treat migrants from other countries."

Thus speaketh the transparently disgusting former president obama who knows this is a veritable death sentance for cubans.

A decent person would realize this makes it impossible for Cubans to flee their repressive murderous communist regime. But you are not a decent person. You sympathize with the Castro regime and wish you could treat people who disagree with you like he treats his dissidents.

You are not good people and you don't believe a word you are saying. Your only goal is to gain and wield power over others. The rest of the country is catching on to you now.; 2/1/17, 2:30 PM
Achilles said...: vicari valdez said...
lol @ "you people"

Yes. The left are now "you people." You support people who chant "Make america mexico again" and you support violence that is transparently funded by the left. You are explicitly disingenuous. You endorse sharia law.

It is telling that that is the extent of your rebuttal.; 2/1/17, 2:36 PM
MaxedOutMama said...: Achilles - Oh, I don't think they are going to try anything except legally and through propaganda - but this sort of thing might be very useful for those purposes.

I think the shift to Trumpocalypse mode is intensifying because so far, Trump's election seems to be producing economic fruits, and that is the true threat. What if things improve? The Democratic party will be in terrible trouble! Right after the election, there was a sudden improvement in economic confidence surveys (literally, it switched in the middle of November), and since, there seems to be more life in the business surveys. A little bit of extra business confidence and investment can go a long way.

This is mostly a propaganda war, and I think the Dems are frantic to win it. They cannot afford to come into 2018 if the economy improves and there has not been an international fracas.

The small business people all seem rather happy, and they are a big portion of the economy. Industrial production looks better. Consumer confidence is up and the preliminary employment stuff looks great. That is the worst-case scenario for the Democratic party and some of those big donors.; 2/1/17, 2:37 PM
Unknown said...: you don't have a clue what i support, idiot.; 2/1/17, 2:37 PM
Anonymous said...: "You are not good people and you don't believe a word you are saying. Your only goal is to gain and wield power over others."

What a simplistic mind.; 2/1/17, 3:06 PM
Freder Frederson said...: What happens to cubans who try to come to the US Freder? What happens to you if you apply for a US travel visa in Cuba?

Probably not
nearly as dire as you imagine.

Thus speaketh the transparently disgusting former president obama who knows this is a veritable death sentance for cubans.

Cuba placed a moratorium on the death penalty in 2001 (although they did execute three ferry hijackers in 2003). You people need to get yourself out of the Cold War and examine what the situation actually is in Cuba today. Cuba's human rights record is abysmal, but currently it holds less than 100 political prisoners (the consensus is actually around 50.

They just go to the US consulate and apply for immigration visas, right Freder ?

Actually, since 2013, Cuban citizens do not need an exit visa to leave the country(I was surprised about this when I discovered it, but probably not nearly as much as you are).; 2/1/17, 3:07 PM
Anonymous said...: vicarious valdez,

Maybe he has a crystal ball and a turban.; 2/1/17, 3:10 PM
Anonymous said...: Sorry autocorrect, vicari.; 2/1/17, 3:11 PM
Mark said...: Muslim "ban" that exempts 85 percent of Muslims in the world, close to a billion.; 2/1/17, 3:47 PM
grackle said...: Pretty soon, people will stop listening.

“Pretty soon?” Enough stopped listening to give the Whitehouse to Trump despite 100% opposition from the media. The reality is that the media is now squandering the very small amount of credibility they have left after the MSM fiasco of the last election. They are in effect, inoculating Trump even against valid criticism.

Are they about to spend $10M to damage their brand?

Yes.

Yeah, but which one?

Some might say both but, as the election of Trump proved, the eGOP was a mere coterie within the GOP, rather than representative of the GOP as a whole. The actual GOP voters rejected the eGOP’s rejection of Trump, so … the GOP is doing fine; the eGOP and their asshole buddies, the Democrats, not so much.; 2/1/17, 4:03 PM
Michael K said...: Freder, once again, you seem to miss the point.

From her home in Miami, Alicia Garcia was waiting to help. She fled Cuba as part of the 1994 exodus – one of three main “waves” of migration. The first was directly after the revolution; the second in 1980, when flotillas of boats crossed the Straits to pick up waiting Cubans from the port of Mariel, and the third in 1994, in the midst of deep economic hardship after the fall of Cuba’s economic crutch, the USSR.
Mrs Garcia came by boat, but the majority of those arriving in Florida now come overland through Mexico.
“It’s a flood of people,” she said. “Thirty thousand came in 1994 with me, but this is far bigger. All types of people are coming – men, women, children. They are fed up of the repression and economic problems at home, and scared that soon they won’t be welcomed by the US.”

I don't think you need "exit visas" if you have no money and way of getting there,

Jordan, 38, arrived in Miami a month ago. He left Cuba for Ecuador, and initially planned to work there – but soon realised that he could earn more money to send home to his mother in Santa Clara from the US.
“I made $12 a month as an electrician in Cuba,” he said, putting down his drill to tell his story, while behind him his Cuban colleagues noisily carried on working. “Here I can make $1,000. I was just looking for a better life.”
His journey was hard – corrupt Colombian border police stole his $900 savings on the border, and he crossed Central America “village by village”, working as he went. But he insisted the hardship was worth it.

Yeah, just buy a ticket with your $12 a month.; 2/1/17, 4:16 PM
Freder Frederson said...: Yeah, just buy a ticket with your $12 a month.

Oh, so now the opportunity to make more money is a valid reason to allow unfettered immigration. And note he decided he was better off in the U.S. than Ecuador. He was not escaping low wages in Cuba, but Ecuador.

If the person were Mexican, Honduran, or Guatemalan (and the latter two are in much worse shape and more dangerous than Cuba), I doubt you would be so sympathetic.; 2/1/17, 4:25 PM
The Cracker Emcee Refulgent said...: "Cuba's human rights record is abysmal, but currently it holds less than 100 political prisoners (the consensus is actually around 50"

Above ground, yes?

You're a fascist creep.; 2/1/17, 4:59 PM
Freder Frederson said...: You're a fascist creep.

Sheesh, get your insults right. If I were an apologist for the Castro regime (and all the figures I have cited are from organizations that are hostile to the Castro regime, if you have alternative figures, please present them) I would be a commie creep, not a fascist. Plus "commie creep" has the benefit of alliteration.; 2/1/17, 5:25 PM
Achilles said...: Terri said...
"You are not good people and you don't believe a word you are saying. Your only goal is to gain and wield power over others."

What a simplistic mind.

AHAHAHAHA. Someone with the critical thinking skills of a turnip comes out with the most outstanding burn ever.

Name one thing you stand for that you are honest about and where your actions actually reflect your stated belief.; 2/1/17, 5:39 PM
Guildofcannonballs said...: I support 34C and 36B most.; 2/1/17, 5:52 PM
Seeing Red said...: Terri is a reason to revoke the 19th Amendment.; 2/1/17, 6:02 PM
Matt Sablan said...: More Fake News, and something that could have been easily checked too.; 2/1/17, 6:13 PM
The Cracker Emcee Refulgent said...: "if you have alternative figures, please present them"

Ah, you're a fascist creep and have poor reading skills.; 2/1/17, 6:36 PM
Achilles said...: A democrat speaks the obvious truth that Keith Elison shouldn't be DNC chair because Muslims discriminate against gays.

And the democrats kicked the gay guy out. If you are gay or trans the democrat party doesn't like you. They are just using you for your votes. The party is anti-gay. They are also anti-woman as well because Islam is clear about a woman's value. I think it is around 4 goats or so for a wife.; 2/1/17, 6:44 PM
Michael K said...: "He was not escaping low wages in Cuba, but Ecuador."

As an exercise in remedial education I suggest you read, Michael Totten's articles on his visit to Cuba.

Michael is a little to the left of me and is hysterical about Trump but he is a good observer with lots of courage. You could read all of his work and learn from it, as I have.

Even my lefty daughter, who is fluent in Spanish, visited Cuba about ten years ago. I overheard her telling a friend she went to see if Socialism really worked. Unfortunately for her enthusiasm, she could talk to real Cubans whereas most tourists don't speak the language. She concluded, sadly, that Cuba is a prison. Totten has a similar conclusion for a visit a year ago.

Mexicans may be fleeing economic incompetence by their government but Cubans are fleeing a prison.; 2/1/17, 6:45 PM
HT said...: Problem for whom? And who's calling it a ban? Could you be more specific?; 2/1/17, 6:57 PM
Clyde said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 2/1/17, 7:21 PM
Clyde said...: Achilles said...
... They are also anti-woman as well because Islam is clear about a woman's value. I think it is around 4 goats or so for a wife.

It should be noted that those four goats are not only a source of milk, wool and meat, but also four concubines as well. And they don't talk back (although I'm sure for most Muslim women, "Silent as a goat" is a maxim).; 2/1/17, 7:24 PM
Freder Frederson said...: Mexicans may be fleeing economic incompetence by their government but Cubans are fleeing a prison.

So, you are arguing that using Cuba as a baseline, anyone from a country that is crappier than Cuba (which by almost any measure, includes the seven countries in Trump's ban) should be judged on a "wet foot, dry foot" basis? Cuba is the only country we have ever applied that kind of exemption to (not the Soviet Union, Mao's China, North Korea, Pol Pot's Cambodia).; 2/1/17, 7:46 PM
Michael said...: There is an easy and positive solution to the Muslim problem and that is to allow as many Ismailis into the country as can fit. None of the other sects. Win. Win.; 2/1/17, 7:51 PM
Bad Lieutenant said...: Fredo, I'm going to do you the compliment of believing that you're playing dumb on the history between the United States and Castro's Cuba. Obviously Obama surrendered to Cuba and you're good with that. Why not just say so?; 2/1/17, 7:53 PM
Michael said...: Freder

Here is the coolest of all things I know about Cuba. Hotel operators in the country pay the Cuban Government US$300 a month for every hotel employee. The Cuban Government then pays the hotel workers US$15. Nice, eh?

Viva la revolution!!; 2/1/17, 7:54 PM
Jupiter said...: Gusty Winds said...
"Trumps's Executive Orders are on the majority side of the polling because most Americans are smart enough to know its not a Muslim ban. We just don't want to be Paris, Cologne, Brussels, or Stockholm."

I'm not following you here. How is it going to keep us from following the capitals of Europe into dhimmitude if it is not a Muslim ban?; 2/1/17, 8:04 PM
Freder Frederson said...: Obviously Obama surrendered to Cuba and you're good with that. Why not just say so?

Yes, and that is why I have just finished my Spanish classes and am about to head to Cuba to help with the sugar harvest. Will you be there Comrade? Or are you spending your time in a reeducation camp?

What a fucking stupid comment!; 2/1/17, 8:09 PM
cubanbob said...: There are fifty seven Islamic nations. The seven countries that are subject to the ban, let those people go to one of the other fifty Islamic nations.; 2/1/17, 8:25 PM
CWJ said...: "... [I] am about to head to Cuba to help with the sugar harvest."

February? You're late by two or three months. My lord Freder, even when you try to sarcastically snark, you're pathetic! I appreciate you as a sincere part of the Althouse community as opposed to the army of sock puppets that infest the comments. But really, up your game. Your old enough now to put some actual effort into it.; 2/1/17, 8:42 PM
Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...: Wow. Did Jonathan Cohen really pick up on that? How astute.

Too bad that's exactly how it was intended. As Giuliani said, they just wanted to find a way to "make it legal". Or as close as they could get to something to show how serious they were to do exactly that.; 2/1/17, 8:51 PM
Birkel said...: So Obama visited the 57 states. I heard him say so.

And there are how many U.S. states? And how many Islamic countries?; 2/1/17, 8:54 PM
Birkel said...: Commander Crankshaft:

You will not discuss PURPLE ELEPHANTS. Thank you in advance.; 2/1/17, 8:56 PM
Jupiter said...: Commander Crankshaft said...

"Too bad that's exactly how it was intended."

You'd better believe it, Cranky. There's a cattle car on a siding outside of Chicago with your name on it. Buy you some stock in a barbed-wire company, 'cause we're going to be building us some camps. Hope you like camping.; 2/1/17, 8:58 PM
Freder Frederson said...: My lord Freder, even when you try to sarcastically snark, you're pathetic!

Yeah right, I got the month of the sugar harvest wrong, so my snark is so lame. (BTW I live in Louisiana, so I know when the freaking sugar harvest is.)

Is that the best you got?; 2/1/17, 9:04 PM
Michael K said...: Cuba is the only country we have ever applied that kind of exemption to (not the Soviet Union, Mao's China, North Korea, Pol Pot's Cambodia).

Remind me when the last Cuban blew himself up in a suicide attack.

Never mind, I'm going to bed. You can bore the rest with you stupid blather.; 2/1/17, 9:06 PM
Freder Frederson said...: Your old enough now to put some actual effort into it.

And since you're being so damn picky, it is "you're", not "your".

Damn, put some actual effort into it.; 2/1/17, 9:07 PM
Freder Frederson said...: Remind me when the last Cuban blew himself up in a suicide attack.

Remind me when the last Soviet, Chinese, North Korean, or Cambodian blew himself up in a suicide attack (and even if you want to cite the Boston Marathon bombing, they weren't citizens of the Soviet Union and they weren't suicide bombers)?; 2/1/17, 9:12 PM
Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...: You'd better believe it, Cranky. There's a cattle car on a siding outside of Chicago with your name on it. Buy you some stock in a barbed-wire company, 'cause we're going to be building us some camps. Hope you like camping.

"Jupiter" provides himself as an example of the right-wing's flirtation with Nazism, internment and just plain general hate. Really funny stuff, there.

Go back to 1941, or 1838. Just get the fuck out of this place. Your wacko starts out with a ~30% favorability rating for a reason, and that's the best you crackpots are ever going to do. You're just fundamentally un-American and need to put up your ethno-state elsewhere.; 2/1/17, 9:17 PM
CWJ said...: Again Freder, up your game. Because making a grammatical mistake while thumb typing on a tablet is the same as what you actually said, and indeed meant to say. BTW, justifying your mistaken snark by citing how you should have known better is not the strongest counter argument.

Also, I admit that I will make many more inadvertent grammatical and spelling errors in future. So pick me apart. Have at it.; 2/1/17, 9:40 PM
Jupiter said...: Commander Crankshaft said...
"You're just fundamentally un-American and need to put up your ethno-state elsewhere."

You saying this continent isn't big enough for the both of us? Don't be like that, Crankster. I'm thinking there's places we could put your gulag where you wouldn't bother us a bit. Out of sight, out of mind, as they say. As long as you weren't planning to reproduce, which I gather most of you aren't.; 2/1/17, 9:50 PM
Jon Ericson said...: Thanks a lot Michael.; 2/1/17, 9:52 PM
Original Mike said...: "BTW I live in Louisiana, so I know when the freaking sugar harvest is."

Last week you told Althouse you lived in the same part of the country as her. Which is it?; 2/1/17, 10:01 PM
Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...: No gulag. Unless you consider school a gulag. It's a real shame, how much your side hates knowledge.; 2/1/17, 10:05 PM
CWJ said...: Original Mike @10:01,

Ouch!

You know, I've always taken Freder at face value. There are so few genuine opposition commenters left that I have tried to think the best of them.

When I have repeatedly asked Freder to up his game, it has been sincere. Darn, I'd hate to think he's another fake.; 2/1/17, 10:14 PM
Original Mike said...: Well, I guess he's in the same longitude.; 2/1/17, 10:34 PM
Hyphenated American said...: "Cuba is the only country we have ever applied that kind of exemption to (not the Soviet Union, Mao's China, North Korea, Pol Pot's Cambodia)."

In all fairness, it's a bit further from USSR to USA, than from Cuba to USA. Same case for China, North Korea and Cambodia.

On the other side, pretty much every Soviet citizen who applied for a refugee status in USA, received it. And amazingly, those former Soviets were the most right-wing pro-American folks in the world. Amazingly, none of them became an anti-American terrorist.; 2/1/17, 10:44 PM
buwaya said...: Vietnam.
Vietnamese refugees were almost all admitted, if they got to a US-friendly country, Thailand or Malaysia usually.
Some friends served as staff in Vietnamese refugee/transition camps teaching English.; 2/1/17, 10:58 PM
buwaya said...: As for the USSR, pretty much anyone who got out got sanctuary. And IIRC a whole lot of Hungarians got in after 1956.
In general it seems if you managed to flee the USSR or its European satellites during the Cold War you were a shoo in for US residence.; 2/1/17, 11:03 PM
buwaya said...: School can be a gulag.
There are many for whom schools serve mainly to frustrate learning. I have met lots. Our kids have, sometimes, too often, been frustrated at the backwardness of the material.
And in the usual local school the standards are quite dreadful.
The stuff in these schools isnt knowledge, it is a pretense of knowledge.; 2/1/17, 11:12 PM
Gahrie said...: "Jupiter" provides himself as an example of the right-wing's flirtation with Nazism, internment and just plain general hate. Really funny stuff, there.

Yeah...

In reality, it was the left who flirted with and admired NAZIism, right up to the moment Hitler attacked the USSR.

It was the Left who put thousands of Americans into camps.

It is the Left who is currently consumed with hate and hysteria.; 2/1/17, 11:16 PM
Gahrie said...: There are many for whom schools serve mainly to frustrate learning

The answer is to give the parents the right to choose what is best for their child.

I'm for vouchers, charters and improving local schools.

I'm a public school teacher.; 2/1/17, 11:18 PM
Gospace said...: The following is a collection of times Keith Ellison has criticized sharia for condemning gays to death:
1,
2.
3.

The following is what the Democrat Party has recently done:

The Democratic National Committee is kicking a candidate out of the chairmanship race after he told The Hill that Rep. Keith Ellison (D-Minn.) should not be the party’s next leader because he is a Muslim. ...

“His being a Muslim is precisely why DNC voters should not vote for him,” Tolliver wrote. “Muslims discriminate against gays. Islamic law is clear on the subject, and being gay is a direct violation of it. In some Muslim countries, being gay is a crime punishable by death.”

Yep. The Democrat party owns sharia all right. And punishes its own people for telling the truth.; 2/1/17, 11:41 PM
Achilles said...: Commander Crankshaft said...

Go back to 1941, or 1838. Just get the fuck out of this place. Your wacko starts out with a ~30% favorability rating for a reason, and that's the best you crackpots are ever going to do. You're just fundamentally un-American and need to put up your ethno-state elsewhere.

How about the 1960's when progressive democrats sided with North Vietnam.

We could go back to the 1950's when progressive democrats were hosing down and beating black people fighting Jim Crow. I heard the democrats beat up Rep. Lewis.

Or 1941 when progressive democrats threw all of the Japanese immigrants into internment camps.

Or the 1930's when progressives were loving themselves some Hitler.

Or the 1910's when progressive democrats were sterilizing black women during their eugenics experiment.

Or the 1860's when progressive democrats decided they were going to fight to keep their slaves.; 2/1/17, 11:43 PM
Lewis Wetzel said...: JAC wrote:
"One problem with hyperbolically calling it a 'Muslim ban': you end up with headlines like 'Most Americans support Muslim ban.'"
The problem with the media isn't just that they are Leftists, it's that they are stupid. I honestly wonder if the people with bylines at the AP and the major networks know in which decade World War Two was fought, which country put men on the moon, etc.; 2/2/17, 12:14 AM
Lewis Wetzel said...: Interesting article by conservative Selena Zito:
http://nypost.com/2017/02/01/grassroots-rage-and-the-democrats-crackup/
She quotes poli sci prof who says the Democrats are in a bind that plays to Trump's advantage: the base absolutely refuses to allow the Dem leadership any leeway to work with Trump. So what Americans see is Trump proposing changes where they know that there are problems -- immigration, Obamacare, trade -- but the Dems can't work out a compromise solution with Trump because the base won't stand for it, and the dems don't have the power to stop Trump & the GOP from acting. The result is that Trump can maneuver, and the Dems cannot maneuver.; 2/2/17, 2:30 AM
Bad Lieutenant said...: Fredo sez...blabbity blah...

What a fucking stupid comment!
2/1/17, 8:09 PM

To be fair, I do credit you with deep expertise on stupidity. You even named yourself after what surely is the dumbest German I ever saw, him and his punchable face and his little rat paws.

You really need to have spelled out for you why Cuba is different from Mexico or Guatemala? Really? You really need to have spelled out for you the different meanings of surrender? Really?

Well, somebody else is going to have to edumacate you on how to spell. I can't be bothered. Geez you're pathetic.; 2/2/17, 6:50 AM
JAORE said...: One of the laments of the left is this will make them HATE us - ISIS will use this to RECRUIT!!!!!!

Of course the outrage would be more compelling if the left/MSM were not using phrases "Muslim Ban" and "Religious Test" every third sentence.

Not only lies, but more likely to accomplish what the left claims is their concern.; 2/2/17, 8:30 AM
Rusty said...: Commander Crankshaft said...
"You'd better believe it, Cranky. There's a cattle car on a siding outside of Chicago with your name on it. Buy you some stock in a barbed-wire company, 'cause we're going to be building us some camps. Hope you like camping.

"Jupiter" provides himself as an example of the right-wing's flirtation with Nazism, internment and just plain general hate. Really funny stuff, there. "

Since we're talking about the soviets I think the refrence was to Stolypin cars.Which were, in the beginning, cattle cars. Comrade.; 2/2/17, 4:56 PM
Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...: In reality, it was the left who flirted with and admired NAZIism, right up to the moment Hitler attacked the USSR.

It was the Left who put thousands of Americans into camps.

It is the Left who is currently consumed with hate and hysteria.

It is the Right who loves ethnic nationalism and seeks a way of importing it into America, and who thinks the hatred and violence required to sustain it is just dandy.; 2/2/17, 5:36 PM
Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...: How about the 1960's when progressive democrats sided with North Vietnam.

We could go back to the 1950's when progressive democrats were hosing down and beating black people fighting Jim Crow. I heard the democrats beat up Rep. Lewis.

Or 1941 when progressive democrats threw all of the Japanese immigrants into internment camps.

Or the 1930's when progressives were loving themselves some Hitler.

Or the 1910's when progressive democrats were sterilizing black women during their eugenics experiment.

Or the 1860's when progressive democrats decided they were going to fight to keep their slaves.

How about 2016 when retrogrades did what retrogrades always do by repackaging all the bad ideas of old into their revamped program of racial ethnic supremacist nationalism, isolation and separatism onto the American scene?

How about 2016 when retrogrades sided with Putin's Russia?

But you go ahead and argue with all the mistakes of the past while implementing them in the present. That's a neat approach.; 2/2/17, 5:40 PM
Hyphenated American said...: "How about 2016 when retrogrades did what retrogrades always do by repackaging all the bad ideas of old into their revamped program of racial ethnic supremacist nationalism, isolation and separatism onto the American scene? "

Show one example of this "racial ethnic supremacist nationalism"...
While you are doing that, don't forget to include the "white people need to shut up" wing of the Democrat party...

"How about 2016 when retrogrades sided with Putin's Russia? "

Don't remember republicans siding with Putin - but I do remember Obama siding with Iran (and funding it with billions of dollars) against Israel, as well as siding with the Castro fascist regimes. And let's not forget Obama's siding with Moslem Brotherhood.

"But you go ahead and argue with all the mistakes of the past while implementing them in the present. That's a neat approach. "

Democrat flirtation with communists and fascists is ongoing.; 2/2/17, 6:07 PM
Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...: Show one example of this "racial ethnic supremacist nationalism"...

I judge the tree by its fruit, Sir. How do you judge it?

Wouldn't want to deny that crowd the clear reason for their happiness.; 2/2/17, 7:15 PM