"No one had ever done those things for me before. He opened that door for me because I wasn’t physically offensive to him, and I knew. And it was in that moment that I realised how terrible we are as a society to people, based solely on their appearance. This realisation broke me. It broke me in a way that I’ve never been broken before. He certainly didn’t deserve my outburst, but in that moment I couldn’t help myself."
Writes Stacie Huckeba (at The Guardian). I'm seeing her slammed by some bloggers I like, and I think they are missing the point. She's not saying it was good to lash out at a man who opened the door for her. She's expressing sadness at the realization of what the door opening means. It's not traditional etiquette borne of respect for women. It's special treatment for some women.
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183 comments:
Boy Scouts especially pick out the old and helpless ones to assist. We are prepared.
This is bullshit. A sample size of one and you (and the original writer; and the commenters) are all running down the hill with generalizations about What It All Means.
We just finished eviscerating --with your help, I think-- the silly "survey" about trans teens. This is far worse. Are you trolling us?
I'm suffering full blown outrage fatigue. Not a smidgen of a care about this. Good thing I'm quitting social media for Lent.
so, the moral is; Lose Weight?
I open the door for all women: young, old, fat, thin, whatever color -- maybe even some of them were transgender, I still open the door.
The young hot ones, though: I check out their asses as they go inside...
Now, I don't intentionally follow those ones. Sometimes they are just going where I want to go...
I am Laslo.
Althouse -- She may be right. Men may be more considerate of attractive women. So? Is she saying women don't tend to be more attentive to attractive men? If she is, there are a lot of nerds who would disagree with that claim.
I hold doors open for everybody every single time.
That's right. Men only care about a quality we call "fuckability."
Addendum to 2/26/17, 7:29 AM:
Yoga Pants.
I am Laslo.
It's a testable hypothesis. She should record opened/unopened doors for a month, and then regain those 200 pounds and run another month of tests.
"It's not traditional etiquette borne of respect for women." Wrong. It is. I assume she didn't suddenly look like Scarlett Johansson. She now looks normal. That's presumably how the man treats normal women.
Her problem before was something different. Unfortunately, many of us react inside negatively to people who look extremely unusual, or strikingly unwell. That can affect our outside actions, and perhaps people will find an excuse not to show their usual treatment of other people. Perhaps to turn away and do something else instead. Not good, but human.
This has nothing to do with feminism or feminine beauty; it's the same with men. It's a (normal) failing of people who find it hard to get themselves to deal with things that repulse them, even if those things are people.
We have big, heavy doors in the building I work, and I open them / hold them open for everyone. It's a pain to grab them when they are swinging away from you. I certainly try to open doors for anyone who is disabled, carrying packages. I can't imagine being LESS likely to help someone who is obese. Poor lady must live around savages.
She's expressing sadness at the realization of what she thinks the door opening means.
She's wrong. And since today we're arguing by telepathy and assertion, I don't have to prove that.
Bob Ellison: good idea. But a fully randomized, double-blinded study will be hard to design here.
Laslo: wins the thread again. Effortlessly.
American? She writes with an American accent.
This is how she phrased it: "the man behind me stepped up to open the door for me." Keep in mind that a 365 lb. woman is huge. Stepping around her to open a door is extremely difficult, if not impossible in some circumstances. It may be as simple as that.
Tip for Heavy Women who fear a man will not open the door for them:
Walk directly behind a hot woman. The guy, after opening the door for her, will likely keep it open for you to follow.
It is one thing to not open a door for someone: another thing entirely to let the door slam on someone right there.
Also: make sure you can fit through the door.
Getting stuck in the door-frame is awkward for everybody.
I am Laslo.
This type of thing is so prevalent amongst humanity, as if selection was somehow hard wired into our brains. Instinctive even.
I'm suffering full blown outrage fatigue.
So no Oscar party at Rae's, I suspect.
Does she not realize it is no longer 2008-to-2010?
"There was a moment, sometime between 2008 and 2010, when a woman’s insides — her exploits, her eating habits, her feelings, her sex life — became a lucrative internet product."
I am Laslo.
I ask women if they read the Guardian. Then the NYT and Wapo.
If you open a door for a very large woman, and then follow her inside, if she passes gas, you could die!
When entering a revolving door, I generally wait until a 300 pounder is coming and let them precede me. I can then proceed effortlessly. One must be quick however, as the rotation speeds up considerably.
“Swedish national security advisor” on The O’Reilly Factor was actually an ex-convict living in Virginia.
It's not "some women" as such. In situations where information is limited to appearance, it is women that are recognizable as women, or indeed, as human.
After Googling "fat chick literature" the second result is "Popular Fat Chick Lit Books - Goodreads"
Some of the selections:
Good in Bed (Cannie Shapiro, #1) by Jennifer Weiner
Dumplin' (Dumplin', #1) by Julie Murphy
Big Girls Do It Pregnant (Big Girls Do It, #10) by Jasinda Wilder
Little Earthquakes (Paperback) by Jennifer Weiner
Such a Pretty Fat: One Narcissist's Quest to Discover If Her Life Makes Her Ass Look Big, or Why Pie Is Not the Answer (Paperback) by Jen Lancaster
It's Down There In the Middle, by Ellen Graves.
I did not make any of those up.
Okay: I made the last one up.
But you get the idea.
I am Laslo.
When God closes a door, he opens a window.
NPR had a story-telling feature about this same issue a week ago - so its a meme. "Men are shallow". OK. I found the NPR version ridiculous because the NPR woman asked her husband if he would have married her at her previous weight, and when he said, "No", well . . . they had issues. Maybe she should have asked him before they got married?
Personally, I always choose women who can fit in an economy car and walk up hills. Its a lifestyle thing.
I wonder if her recollections are accurate. Personally, I open doors for all women, large, small, black and white, etc. And also for men, although if they are not right at the door I don't wait as long as I would for a woman.
Inside every obese woman is an angry feminist raging to get out.
I think the point of those bloggers, is it's not ok to act out your feelings on some poor guy opening the door for you. The lady overreacted because she was dealing with her own issues, and it should be a point of embarrassment for her not a public catharsis.
All Fat Chicks are grey in the dark.
There's just a whole lot of grey.
I think Thomas Jefferson said that.
I am Laslo.
robother said, "Inside every obese woman is an angry feminist raging to get out."
Every one? That's a scary thought. Angry feminists should not be suppressed, much less eaten. We should direct the police to stop and frisk obese women. There might be a cannibalism breath test.
"Beauty has the best of it in this world." - Don Marquis, Archy and Mehitabel
The issue has to do with the male biological wiring for reproduction.
Instinctively, when a man sees a really Fat Chick he knows he needs a longer penis to actually get past the fat and reach the vagina.
Men don't want to think about needing a longer penis.
Hence, men are, on a primal level, driven to avoid Fat Chicks.
Because they need a longer penis to reach the vagina. Because of all the fat.
Also: see "Thigh Gap."
I am Laslo.
A fat woman will have a more difficult, at-risk pregnancy than a slim one. Honey, it's not personal, it's the breeding business. Men are animals, and I mean that in the kindest way possible.
So she wasn't happy when men didn't hold the door for her. And now she isn't happy when men do. I spot a trend.
Could this unwittingly be a commentary on where she lives and the places she frequents rather than men in general? Or could she actually not have accurate memories of her larger past? Or perhaps an aura of anger surrounds her? That might cut down on the spontaneous gallantry.
Who knows? I don't. But as one who lives in two places (South Carolina and Wisconsin) where a lot of people, male and female, are plus sized, what she describes is not a pattern that leaps out at me.
You know who holds the door open for fat women? Cannibals, that's who.
In the moment, door opening is certainly offered as a kindness. As others have pointed out, the act of door opening depends on certain elements of space, and equally as important, timing.
The existence of bias against overweight people is a well-worn path. We would all do well to understand out biases and work to ensure that we extend kindness as widely as possible.
Given that, it seems odd that this act of door-opening really cracked the code in a way that lead her to attack an innocent person for the sins of humanity. Nowhere does she acknowledge that harm. What about that man's feelings? Maybe he had just lost 200 pounds and recently gained enough confidence to open doors for women. How many doors will now go unopened because she abused that guy? That seems like the real story to me.
Although the idea that fat people are generally not treated as well in many areas of life is not controversial, she fails to consider how her own view of her weight might have impacted how she interacted with the world. What did she project? Did she walk with her eyes cast down? Was she tired and hurting and perhaps looking pained or grim? Was there a "leave me alone" vibe? These things impact the brief connections we make with strangers during our day regardless of the rest of our appearance. I am 100 percent certain, at least here, that some men would consistently open the door for her at both her old and new size. Recalled for me the Anais Nin (?) quote "We don't see things as they are – we see them as we are." And my Lord, that poor guy that opened the or for her!
In the South men are taught to hold the door open for any and all women, and taught to stand up when women sit down or get up at a table in a public situation, black or white, beautiful or ugly.
Hell, I open the door for men too.
Nevertheless, do beautiful women get paid attention to more or taken care of "better" by men as a whole? Yes they do, because it is peoples' nature. However, it is also peoples' nature to recognize their own nature and choose to ignore it the best they can.
Melody Greer, Proud Fat Chick...
If men don't want me because I'm fat, that's just fine by me: they don't know what they're missing. Me, I enjoy Pina Coladas and getting caught in the rain, and I'm definitely not into yoga. I'd also love to make love at midnight in the dunes of the Cape...
Sure, some of these things leave me out-of-breath quickly, but just let me sit for a moment, I'll be fine, I have my inhaler...
I also don't mind anal sex. In fact, it's probably easier: when I'm on my knees and spreading my ample butt cheeks apart it is easier to reach my anus than my vagina. Unless the guy has a really long cock. I like guys with really long cocks...
Sure, sometimes I'll eat the guy's Ice Cream at two in the morning, but you can always buy more ice cream: togetherness is about compromise. Like, I bring my own Viagra for the guy in case he has problems getting it up when I'm naked...
And -- yes -- I CAN do a successful job of wiping my ass effectively: I know some Fat Chicks have problems with that, but I have a sponge on a stick, it does the job just fine...
Would i mind losing weight? Of course not, as long as I could still eat everything I like eating, in the same proportions. That said, I am Happy with who I am, and I make my Man very happy, when I have one. Because anal sex....
I am Laslo.
You know who holds the door open for fat women? Cannibals, that's who.
Don't forget Hitler.
She has a Wikipedia page! Someone explain to me how she accomplished all this with the whole world hating on her?
Born in Odessa, Texas, Huckeba began her career in the 1990s by photographing bands like Pearl Jam, White Zombie, Red Hot Chili Peppers, Public Enemy and David Bowie's Tin Machine.
In 2007, her career evolved into film production, directing two music videos "Unbreakable" and "The Highland Street Incident" along with the short film "Come to East Nashville" for Todd Snider's "The Devil You Know" DVD which was released through Universal Music Group's New Door Records. In 2011 she directed and produced the full-length live performance double disc DVD "Todd Snider, The Storyteller" which was released on Aimless Records.
She has since worked with artists such as Dolly Parton, Billy Joel, Loretta Lynn, Buddy Guy and Marty Stuart.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stacie_Huckeba
I hold open the door for everyone, men, women, young people, old people. In fact if there's anyone I would hesitate to hold a door open for it would be for a beautiful women, precisely because such an act is likely to be misinterpreted.
Now I have no doubt that there are men that only hold doors open for beautiful women. In fact it sounds like London might be a place where doors are rarely held open for others.
Speaking as a child of the Midwest, this was a pretty common courtesy to others when I was growing up. And still is, I think. I mean people hold doors open for me all the time.
"He opened that door for me because I wasn’t physically offensive to him, and I knew. And it was in that moment that I realised how terrible we are as a society to people, based solely on their appearance." She "knew," did she. Based "solely" on their appearance, she "knew" that too. Methinks (sorry) we have an epistemological problem here. Unless we can simply ascribe her claims to the usual arrogance of the usual feminist author.
"In every pair of trousers I have ever owned, I have been the exact same person." But the exact same person made a heroic effort to shrink by two-thirds: why? The exact same person apparently wanted to live very differently. Shrinking by two-thirds will alter people's perceptions of you. People's perceptions of you are part of the person you are. Your body is part of the person you are. We are embodied connected consciousness, as some phenomenologist may or may not have said. Which is common sense. Of course, a female writer in tune with the times won't let that stand in the way of exposing Injustice.
Not fair to yell at the guy. For all she knew the dude could've been a hopeless chubby chaser.
Ah, I should have checked. She's not from London. She's from Texas.
I've never lived in Texas but I would guess there are lots of small towns where people hold doors open for each other. A Texan needs to speak up.
Some *women* are treated? When I lost a huge amount of weight I was treated very differently too, and not by men opening doors.
The failure of her thinking, to my mind, is that of entitlement. I know that word gets bandied about quite a bit these days, but hey, if the epithet fits, you get to wear it like a Mu mu.
She thinks, that at 365 lbs, that she was owed...something. Guys oogling her? People buying her drinks?
So, let's turn that on it's head.
"I didn't study at all for my law test, but I deserve a good if not great grade.' How does Ms. Althouse think of that particular idea?
"I will not save a dime, not work and yet I still deserve a full fledged middle clss lifestyle.'
As someone who has to fight to study, fight to lose weight and fight to stay in the middle class every day, having this former behemoth of a woman LECTURE me on what she SHOULD get is...just a bit too much.
Then again...I know a girl who was enormously fat in High School. She came back after fat camp and lost at least 100 pounds. She still looked not so good.
Empathy is difficult for teens. And politeness is for pretty much everyone but my enemies. But this lady has no room to lecture unless her teen self, her young self, her forty something self, was on that treadmill every day.
I know fat women who work out. They get my respect. Three HUNDRED and sixty five pounds tells me that a treadmill was a stranger to her.
Melody Greer, Proud Fat Chick...
I know I'm fat: that doesn't mean I can't laugh about it. Here's a Fat Chick joke I've heard:
Why did the Fat Chick cross the road?
To get to the Donut Shop.
That's funny, because it's true: I HAVE crossed a street to get to a Donut Shop. Because I like donuts. I like the Baker's Dozen, because the free thirteenth donut can't have calories because I didn't have to pay for it, Ha Ha. In fact, I wonder if you can buy a whole box of thirteenth donuts? Try getting your mind around THAT...
You just have to look on the bright side of things, that's all. I once had a Cancer Scare: the idea of having cancer was horrifying, but I have to admit, I was looking forward to all the weight I'd lose...
I am Laslo.
And yes. I am done with outrage as well.
I will have empathy but this lady is actually trying to trump up outrage to sell her upcoming projects.
So she can sod off on that.
Maybe her compulsive overeating was a function of her anger. Maybe now she has learned to channel her anger into less self destructive routes. Instead of nibbling on a snack during moments of stress and confusion, she has learned to lash out at random strangers. The world isn't necessarily a better place,but she's a thinner person.
We all have our moods and our issues. Adults don't take them out on other people.
I'm seeing her slammed by some bloggers I like, and I think they are missing the point.
Wrong. We're not missing the point. We just don't agree with it. And we don't give a shit, either.
Fodder for Laslo:
What would happen if a man lost two thirds of his weight, in his pants.
And it was in that moment that I realised how terrible we are as a society to people, based solely on their appearance.
"This is another example of Sailer's Law of Female Journalism: The most heartfelt articles by female journalists tend to be demands that social values be overturned in order that, Come the Revolution, the journalist herself will be considered hotter-looking."
"What would happen if a man lost two thirds of his weight, in his pants."
He'd have to take some Imodium and change his pants.
This woman committed an error by using the observable behavior of groups of humans to presume to understand the motives of an individual member of that group.
Identity politics.
If you hate yourself, then you believe that everyone else sees you the same way. Same with gays, Jews, blacks, whites, Chinese, etc, etc, etc.
Althouse: "It's not traditional etiquette borne of respect for women. It's special treatment for some women."
Yes. When I was a boy, I remember clearly my dad teaching me that I was only obliged to open the door for some women - NOT!
However, by now, it's become a matter of common courtesy to open a door for anyone based on positioning. So many women have become soap opera queens, tabloid addicts, porn stars and near porn stars, birth control mooches, baby killers, tranny facilitators, voting ignoramuses, sign carriers, ball busters, etc., that there is no basis for a generic "respect for women." Quite the contrary.
I do always open doors respectfully for my wife who is/was mother, lawyer, judge, department director and none of those other things.
Unless you're from the South. All doors get opened for anyone. It's either that or your grandmother calls from heaven giving you hell for being impolite.
Self-loathing is the result of knowing you do not exercise the self-control you know you have at your disposal. As Laslo observes, giving up the ice cream is not an option.
This woman's attitude is so prevalent today I sometimes wonder if it stems from popular culture and daytime televiion. No, sweetie, nothing is EVER your own fault. You are a VICTIM. Blame some poor man who is just trying to be polite.
Laslo at 8:36, you just described the reason why the morbidly obese loved the old jejunal-ileal bypass surgery for obesity. The more they ate, the more diarrhea they had. Eventually, they got to a point that the two balanced.
There was a slight problem in that about 15% of them developed liver failure unless the bypass was taken down but those odds weren't too bad.
The sponge on the stick helped until the weight loss got down to a normal size butt.
I've seen a few patients who had had one that didn't have to be reversed. They always said, "Don't change my bypass."
It's not my experience or personal dynamic. I think most men are as likely or more likely to open the door for an older or unattractive woman becuase it makes us feel good about ourselves, we know it is more appreciated by them, and we always suspect that attractive women expect it and will see it cynically. I'm not saying we don't open doors for them too, it's just not the psychology going on that women think it is.
Even out here in the West it is customary to open doors for others. It is the rule and not the exception.
They apparently keep some men around at NPR, but mostly if they agree with the ideals.
The ideals require a dependence upon, and constant criticism of, those who disagree.
Besides, has a man ever really gotten lucky with an attractive woman just for opening the door. I know all men are sex obsessed idiots, but this is insulting and sexist. It's alright though. We're used to it. We all have a cross to bear, and I love being a guy. It's the best sex to be out of all the sexes.
The problem is that she is delusional and afflicted with woe is me. I expect that many, many doors were opened for her in the past. As I open doors for large, old, ugly, pretty, men and women. As do many people open doors for an old white guy
I had been disregarded, overlooked and ignored because of my size for so long that I didn’t even realise it until people started being nice to me – until, in other words, I was “normal sized”. No one had ever done those things for me before.
That people had a poor image of her because of her weight is quite likely. That no one had ever been nice to her before and done polite things for her before is likely complete BS. And her thinking that no one had ever treated her well is likely because of her own poor self-image being projected upon others. She hated herself and so was blind to all those times when people did not treat her like crap.
Aside from that, she has a valid point. In the modern mind-set, for all the talk about equality and diversity and acceptance, not all human life is seen as having equal dignity and worth -- there is more than a bit of eugenic-ubermensch thinking which puts to death, either socially like this woman or literally, those who do not fit the progressive idea of the acceptable person.
"It's not traditional etiquette borne of respect for women. It's special treatment for some women."
Bullshit. I open doors for all sorts of people.
AA: It's not traditional etiquette borne of respect for women. It's special treatment for some women.
I suspect that where "traditional etiquette" is more widely practiced, doors are held for unattractive women, too.
Of course physically attractive people (of both sexes) are treated differently than unattractive people. Of course we judge people on appearance. But I'm skeptical of these blanket "I'm not treated courteously/am ignored/am invisible because I'm not a sexually attractive woman" stories.
You hear such complaints from, e.g. aging women. When I was younger, I took them at their word. Then I got older, and noticed that I did not, as a matter of fact, become invisible in public. Men still opened doors for me. Men, young and old, remained polite, conversational, and even gallant (in those regions where that still prevails). They obviously do not do so because I appear youthful. (I do not.)
Perhaps I live and have lived in more traditionally polite parts of the country, where deference is still shown to age, but I have wondered if the problem for these "invisible" older women, and sexually unattractive people in general, is that what they are looking for is signs that other people find them sexually attractive, when they are not. And it is very off-putting if someone who is not attractive to you in that way signals that they want you to relate to them in that way.
E.g., when I was young I was pretty much grossed-out by "too old" men who insisted on engaging as if they were members of the "pool of potential sexual partners", when they were not. They were too old. But I didn't dislike or shun them because of their age, but because they were icking me out with their inappropriate behavior. The same thing holds for being fat. I know plenty of fat people who are liked and respected and befriended. But they are not going to get sexual attention, because they are not sexually attractive to most people. If they act in ways that signaled that they thought they were entitled to that kind of attention, just because, people very likely would start shutting them out.
I listen a lot to podcasts now days. Great medium. Lots of content you wouldn't get anywhere else. More in touch with real life of a wide range of people. It's amazing the difference between some of them done by men. There are incredibly hard core ones that extol the wonders of sports, military, duty, physicality and general manliness, and there are others who are almost indistinguishable from women talking over white wine. I thank God that our country still has some of the first. The others sound virtually useless. We already have women, and you dudes are not real useful as a substitute. I say this becuase I know the first more macho type guys are the ones more likely to open a door for any woman, becuase it is a tradition. One that says we are different, I know it, and I like it, and I take responsibility for you in those things where I am more able. Opening the door is just a symbol of that duty being acknowledged.
Yes, as noted above, I do believe that
1) Its harder to get to the door to hold it for someone with a BMI greater 45 and not be crushed as they pass (gas or no gas)
2) The attitude projected by the person approaching a door often determines whether I will hold the door for them and let them in first. Unless its a donut or bagel shop, when there is NO WAY I am letting the fat person in line in front of me for many obvious reasons.
SO some poor schlub holds a door open for someone and is ripped up one side and down the other because of some complicated and secret emotional need of the person for whom he held the door. She subsequently writes a story detailing her complicated emotional need, and the universe of her comment about the poor schlub is a glib dismissal of "he didn't deserve my outburst." One suspects if he dod not hold the door open, regardless of size, she would have ripped him for that too.
No wonder why some men are on strike. Life's too short to deal with that crap.
As I said the other day about trans -- we all have the bodies we have. At least this woman could adjust her weight up or down to something else. So what if she were dealing with something that was not changeable?
What if she were a bald, five-foot white man with thick glasses who had a slight speech impediment? How would he be treated? How would she have treated such a man when she was obese? Would she have been nice to him?
Maybe the lesson here for her is not that some people can be assholes and that modern society is crap, but that she should look in the mirror for those times that she mistreated people based on their looks.
"What would happen if a man lost two thirds of his weight, in his pants."
He'd have to take some Imodium and change his pants.
Depends™.
And it's apparently her 'mission' now, which is how a lot of people probably end up featured at Our-Lady-Of-The-Guardian.
Sleepers awake from their bourgeois slumbers with a come-to-Marx moment (seeing the world as it 'really' is) ready to bring Love, Light and Healing to the world.
If horny men aren't the problem (let's face it sister, they probabaly are), then surely it's the Patriarchal system of door-opening oppression which couldn't recognize this beautiful soul lost amidst a sea of neglect and shame.
Freedom is next.
Social Justice is Nigh.
Absolute Equality is possible.
Hosanna!
ARM: “Swedish national security advisor” on The O’Reilly Factor was actually an ex-convict living in Virginia.
ARM, that's hilarious.
I hesitated before posting this, but:
Some weeks ago, I suddenly became drastically hypoglycemic (low blood sugar; too much insulin and not enough food) outside a convenience store. I sat down on the sidewalk, not wanting to keel over and crack my skull, and, quickly losing my vision and intelligence, called out to the first guy walking into the store, "Sir, sir?" He mumbled something without looking at me and walked in.
The rest of my entreaty would have been, "Can I hand you my wallet and could you buy me some orange juice and some candy and bring it to me as quickly as possible?"
I was busily eating the candy I always have in my pocket at the time. After five minutes or so, I felt well enough to stand up and go into the store myself.
The guy obviously thought I was a grifter. I hadn't shaven in weeks and was not nattily dressed. He made a quick call on his own and decided I did not merit his attention. Next time I'll shout "Help! Help!" Might get better results.
And...Political Activism is the Vehicle.
Heaven on Earth!
Bob, we all need help from time to time...hopefully a decent person is there when you need it
Melody Greer, Proud Fat Chick...
I have to admit, there was one time a Man made me feel upset by my being fat...
He was my boyfriend at the time. I mean, we didn't go out anywhere because he didn't want to be seen in public with me, but he'd come over to my place to eat ice cream and fuck me in the ass...
Well, he kept trying to talk me into having a threesome with my friend Lilly. Lilly is beautiful and thin, but she used to be fat, so she understands me; maybe I make her feel better about her new thin self, I don't know. All I know is she was dedicated to losing the weight: she threw up almost everything she ate for six months, and the weight came off...
So Lilly agrees to the threesome after we all had consumed a few boxes of wine, but then all my boyfriend did was pay attention to her. He fucked HER skinny ass doggy-style; he had HER suck his cock; he HAD her put a finger up his ass, which was OUR thing. The only time I got to get involved was when he shot his load onto both of our faces...
Anyway, now my boyfriend dumps me for Lilly, and I lose a boyfriend AND a best friend. Let me tell you: it took a LOT of ice cream to eat through that depression...
But I learned a valuable Fat Chick lesson: never be in a threesome with a bulimic skinny girl. And Lilly has problems with her esophagus now from vomiting so much stomach acid. Sometimes just accepting who you are is the best option...
I am Laslo.
I hold open doors for people all the time. The other day, I had my arms full, and a woman held the door open for me. In fact, she saw me coming and turned around to do so.
Made my day, and I'm reminded why I do it too. It's not a gender/ weight deal.
It's a nice courteous gesture.
As far as I'm concerned, the woman was rude and I hope no one holds the door open for her again. Bitch.
I remember the "study" that complained about the air conditioning in offices being too cold to accommodate men in suits. However most women, especially (*ahem*) women of size, can be seen fanning themselves if it's too warm.
Conclusion: women like to complain.
Laslo, you are on fire today.
I am going to ask the heretical- why do we still open doors (and hold them) for women, in this age of female privilege? Women make every bit as much as men, in the same job, controlling for all relevant factors. Yet, in many jobs, the requirements have been lessened for women. Females do better in school, including college. There is strong de facto discrimination against men in the area of divorce, etc. on the flip side, women no longer go through their adult lives pregnant - rather, they may spend in the low single digits preggers. And the fecundity of any single woman is more irrelevant now to the survival of the species than ever before. I could go on, but my point is that most of the reasons that we might have given special considerations to women, as women, are now, essentially, obsolete.
Which leaves us with the remaining reason to open the door for a woman - it makes you feel good as a man. Esp attractive women. But even older women. But, interestingly to me, not most Lesbians. Or, really fat women. There is a sexual dynamic between men and women, almost regardless of age. A friend of mine (mother of a girlfriend a long time ago) is 95, and I still feel that dynamic. But not with most Lesbians.
Finally, I have been questioning this since I started college in the late 1960s. It took me a couple weeks, but I trained my girlfriend through much of my time there to open the door for me, instead of the other way around. We would be talking as we walked up to a door. We would stop, and I would continue the conversation, oblivious that there was anything wrong. She quickly discovered the advantages of being the one to open the door - we would get where we were going much more quickly.
Bob, you were ignored becuase so many people panhandle, and you looked like one of them. In other words, you didn't look like you really needed help. An easy mistake for a person to make, and entirely the fault of the people who panhandle pretending they need help they really don't. I used to hand out money to them, but now I never do. I came to realize that I was just paying them to do, and thus assuring they would keep doing, something I and nobody else wants them to do. I probably would have walked past you too, unless you said something or did something unlike a panhandler.
Many of us hold the door for anybody, regardless of who they are. I do it for people who do not expect it, healthy men, young people, etc., becuase I want them to get the infection.
I am remembering an anecdote about Jessye Norman. She was trying to get through a revolving door, was told "turn sideways," and responded, "Honey, I ain't got no sideways."
She really doesn't. She's basically cylindrical. And a very beautiful woman, IMO.
Stacie Huckeba really ought to apologize to the man she screamed at. There's no call for ranting at people who only want to do you good. If you are ranting because some totally different man refused you the same courtesy years ago, you might reflect on that.
Sounds like a personal problem to me. In other words, I call BS. Men and women with manners hold the door open for each other without consideration of appearance where I reside, and that reflects well on an urban region that could likely be characterized as "angry" much of the time.
So because she's got a psychological problem and made a very her-specific observation and generalized it out to everyone, people like me who hold the door for others as a matter of course need to stop because what now - because she's a humorless dour twat?
Because that's what it sounds like from here. I have no sympathy for her telling others how to live. Congrats on dropping the weight though; maybe she'll live longer and in that time learn to understand that no one owes her anything.
"He certainly didn’t deserve my outburst, but in that moment I couldn’t help myself."
Agency for thee, but not for me.
IMAO Huckeba was fortunate to be dealing with a man too polite to give her the spittle in the face she deserved. The lady -- make the "alleged lady" -- needs some serious help.
In the sweet sunny south where I abide it is normal for the first person to a door to hold it for those coming next. Women, men, kids, old people, fat people, black people, gay people, trans people, the lot. This bitch was wrong on so many levels, not the least of which was some awareness of where she was.
Bruce Hayden
Nothing heretical about your stance. It is common with all the meanings of that word attached.
@Fernandinande, you wrote "Come the Revolution." It already came. Last November 8th. Were you out of the country.
On that day "We the People of the United States" gave a one-fingered salute to journalists of both genders.
1. I hold doors for everyone. I always will. It isn't about them but it is about them.
2. This woman is a hater. She and an entire generation are growing up bathed in hatred. Hopefully as they mature they find out there is a better way to live
3. The small number of wealthy elite people who are purposefully making women, black people, hispanics, asians, whatever minority haters to divide us are going to get theirs.
4. My younger brother is 4 inches taller than me and apparently infinitely more attractive to women. I have 40 years of experience with this, not 1 event. This woman is not wrong in some ways, but the way she deals with it is wrong and self destructive.
Bob Ellison: re your hypoglycemic episode. I have a relative with Type 1 who had a similar experience; he "went low" and people thought he was a bum on drugs. Luckily somebody helped him in time.
It certainly changed my attitude about people on the sidewalk asking for help...
Of course, it is not quite clear what this has to do with a suddenly-less-obese person, biting the head off a man who dared extend a basic courtesy. Maybe something about books, covers, and modest assembly requirements.
"It is an undeniable privilege of every man [woman, whatever] to prove himself right in the thesis that the world is his enemy; for if he reiterates it frequently enough and makes it the background of his conduct he is bound eventually to be right."
Again..."makes it the background of his conduct he is bound eventually to be right."
The world or news media or government or president or liberals or conservatives....whatever.
I didn't misunderstand her point. I think she's lying when she claims men didn't hold the door when she was fat. I've been fat, skinny, young, old, in Nashville, Atlanta, and Albuquerque, and none of those factors has has any effect on the rate at which men have held the door. The rate is pretty high.
Bob Ellison--You are lucky that stranger just didn't phone for paramedics. That's the extent people are willing to get involved today. You would be out hundreds of dollars, if not more.
For most of my life I was overweight, most recently By a hundred pounds. I am thankfully on the downside of that now, but because I always approach life with a certain amount of confidence and appreciation for other people, I never found that I was disrespected by anybody because of my weight. Men have always held the door for me I've always been able to flirt with them, etc. I think so much of this has to do with how you approach people. Some people who are overweight automatically approach people with a chip on their shoulder or with fear or with a kind of armor that causes people to feel less inclined to reach out.
Because, of course, that same guy hadn't opened the door for her when she was fat. She should be embarrassed at how she acted, but doesn't seem to be.
SH admits that the man didn't "deserve" her nonsense; does she at any point actually apologize for it? I don't think so.
"It's not traditional etiquette borne of respect for women. It's special treatment for some women." We either accept her relation of the events, and then buy into her rhetoric &c, or we don't-- I don't because I have no idea how reliable a reporter of reality she is. If she just wanted to argue AA's 'special treatment for some women' thesis, she simply ought to have done so, without involving the specific (real or fictitious) man. Could have found a study somewhere.
I'm still chuckling over the Daily Mail's story the other day about the goblin who frightened the football-playing children in Argentina. The Guardian doesn't often reach those heights.
Bruce asks: I am going to ask the heretical- why do we still open doors (and hold them) for women, in this age of female privilege?
I am a woman and open doors for men and women. Children, too. It is not so much an act of chivalry as an act of kindness.
@ Achilles: "This woman is a hater. She and an entire generation are growing up bathed in hatred."
This is the dirtiest of the dirty little secrets of Progressivism. While proclaiming tolerance and openness, it in fact empowers its hard core believers to hate anyone and everyone who embodies traditional Western values. The only reason I can come up with why Progressive LBGT and feminists would welcome mass immigration by adherents of the most intolerant religion (Islam) is that they share and respect hatred.
Melody Greer, Proud Fat Chick...
I once applied for my Dream Job. The Office was a little house that had been turned into the workplace: adorable, with brick walls and period cornices and mouldings. My resume was perfect for the job, and my interview went very well -- afterward they had me wait in the lobby to have a quick meeting with the Boss...!
As I sat in the lobby I was conscious not to take any snacks out of my purse: I wanted to show that I had self-control, that I didn't HAVE to have that King-Size Milky Way bar right now...
After a few minutes I excused myself to use the restroom; my stomach was understandably nervous, and I felt the volcano building in my bowels. When I walked into the restroom I immediately saw the problem: they had converted a small home bathroom to accommodate a stall and a urinal, and the stall was way too narrow for me to fit into...
Meanwhile, the Volcano rumbled and I had to do SOMETHING. The sink was too high for me to use, and I couldn't see using the urinal accurately, so I took the trash basket out from under the sink and emptied my angry bowels into it, then wiped up the back-spatter with paper towels...
I knew that my mess would soon be discovered -- there wasn't enough air freshener in the can to hide THAT -- so I left the charming little office, and my Dream Job, never to return, all because of a narrow toilet stall: it's funny how things you don't think twice about can utterly change the course of your life. I guess it's like being in a wheelchair, except in my case the wheelchair is my oversized ass..
Still, I have accepted that workplace wasn't for me: after all, my Dream Moment of My Dream Job would be having sex with my frisky Boss in the bathroom stall: Bang Me, Mr. Boss Man! Bang the Fat Chick...!
I am Laslo.
Karen asserts: I think so much of this has to do with how you approach people.
So true, Karen! Thank you for your personal story. I had a very close friend who was quite fat--she resembled Mama Cass--but she carried herself with confidence and a facile wit and no one ever treated her with disrespect.
Do STEM majors open more doors, or fewer doors, than non-STEM majors?
Also, what about environmentalists? More, or fewer?
This seems like the opening to a joke. "A math major doesn't hold the bar door for an ecology major, and division by zero erupted." Get me re-write!
Bang the Fat Chick...!
Bang the Fat Chick Slowly.
Bob Ellison asks: Also, what about environmentalists? More, or fewer?
Interesting question. I would say fewer. The rudest people I've ever met were Greenpeace members.
mockturtle said...
"Bang the Fat Chick Slowly."
Ha!
I am Laslo.
It does seem that the point of the article is that people treat you better if you look nicer. I don't doubt that's true, but I'm a bit puzzled why anyone would consider this a revelation.
Personally, I'll hold a door for someone if a) I'd be closing it in their face if I didn't or b) it looks like they'd have trouble with the door.
I was raised to hold the door for anyone and everyone, man or woman, and 99 times out of 100 I get a thank you, which is nice.
Maybe the real tell-tale sign was the guy's t-shirt: "Free Mustache Rides (No Fat Chicks)".
Bob- @ 12:02. You should eat some nuts - some protein &/or fat. Not sugar!
(10:02)
Baloney! I was taught to hold the door for ladies as common courtesy. I still do, regardless of the lady's attractiveness. I'm not looking for a date, I'm being polite.
People tend to overthink everything......especially feminists who seem to believe that they are the center of the universe and that everything is about them
The rule should be: The first person at the door holds it open for the person(s) following you in, or for who is immediately going to exit in front of you. Let them OUT before you go in. If I am first, I hold the door for my husband. How stupid would it be to stand there and wait for him to catch up to me so HE can open the door, when I am perfectly capable of opening a door myself. The only time my husband opens the car door for me is if I have my hands full of packages.
Timing on the door holding issue can be a bit confusing. How LONG do you wait holding the door for someone? If you wait too long because they are a bit behind you it can become uncomfortable. You might be making them hurry to catch up? or Do you just not wait, say screw it and let the door close. But then....if they have hurried up it might slam in their face. (Talk about overthinking it :-)
AprilApple, protein and fat do nothing for hypoglycemia. Sugar or other simple carbs are the thing. Fats actually tend to lower the uptake of sugars, so fats are counter-indicated in the extreme.
I'm sure she was fat shammed and made to feel invisible, just as she says. Her excuse for blowing up at an innocent guy who was more than likely only being polite (there are a few people like that left) is silly.
She wrote the article to brag about her new T&A.
It's common courtesy to hold the door for women and men as circumstances dictate.
My appearance has changed enough over time that--according to the author--I should have encountered a similar experienceto hers. But I have definitely NOT been treated differently re: everyday courtesy. When I moved to Philadelphia I was in my late twenties and slim/very pretty. I'm now late middle-aged and 40 lbs heavier. If men were going to stop holding doors for me according to my weight and attractiveness, it would have happened by now but it hasn't. In fact, it's amazing how polite people of all ages and races generally are in this city; we are holding doors for each other all the time! One thing has really changed, though, as I've gone from attractive to blah--apparently I am much less fascinating than I used to be (sarc). Men used to strike up conversations with me all the time and seemed to think I was interesting and funny. No more of that, alas.
Also, I don't know if she is comparing her experiences in different countries (Britain and America) and/or different regions of those countries, so that could be a significant variable.
There just must be a business opportunity for a fat camp that operates on the lines of a Japanese concentration camp, with severely restricted diet, lack of liberty, plus forced labor.
Think "Bridge on the River Kwai".
That was an extremely effective regime for weight loss.
It would have to be a year at least to "take", and preferably on a tropical island difficult to escape.
Ann Althouse said...It's not traditional etiquette borne of respect for women. It's special treatment for some women.
I read the article--as far as I can tell the problem people have is that she doesn't give, nor really try to give, much evidence for that conclusion.
I hold doors for women. In my life I have received 3 bad reactions from doing so--one eye roll with "ugh", one hairflip w/disgusted face, and one extra-sarcastic "thanks" w/sneer. That's out many hundreds or a few thousand times, so it's a tiny tiny percentage...but I remember all 3.
Bob - Oh. I must be thinking of hyperglycemia.
buwaya said...There just must be a business opportunity for a fat camp that operates on the lines of a Japanese concentration camp, with severely restricted diet, lack of liberty, plus forced labor.
The Simpsons did that, twice: Season 4's Kamp Krusty episode showed a companion Kamp Krusty Fat Camp (complete w/gruel) and season 17 had a maximum security Camp Serenity fat camp/junk food rehab.
Where does she get off making that kind of assumption about the man who held the door? Maybe he holds the door for everyone.
Thought experiment: Imagine holding a door open for Trigglypuff.
"I open the door for all women: young, old, fat, thin, whatever color -- maybe even some of them were transgender, I still open the door.
The young hot ones, though: I check out their asses as they go inside..."
I know Laslo is being Laslo here, but this is exactly right for for most men over the age of 20 who weren't raised by wolves. Shit, I'm more likely to hold the door for the fat and elderly because they've more likely to be gracious about it. I also hold the door for cholos pushing strollers, delivery guys carrying packages, redneck dudes with ARs and range bags, and grocery store employees retrieving shopping carts. It's called being a fucking human being, something the self-dramatizing Left probably has little knowledge of.
Jay Elink said...
Thought experiment: Imagine holding a door open for Trigglypuff.
It is not about them. But it is about them.
In Ranger Battalion during the wars we were on a rotation. Several months with no beer and no women. When we came back home after deployment there was a "tradition" calling whaling night.
There was a scale by the CQ desk.
There were prizes.
I was glad I didn't live in the barracks.
Laslo said...
"I open the door for all women: young, old, fat, thin, whatever color -- maybe even some of them were transgender, I still open the door.
The young hot ones, though: I check out their asses as they go inside..."
I like following the hot chicks too, but it is more fun to watch the men around them. We are so unconsciously reptilian and it is never more apparent.
HoodlumDoodlum said...
I hold doors for women. In my life I have received 3 bad reactions from doing so
I have never had a bad reaction. Once a youngish woman got in my face for failing to hold the door open for her. I just didn't see here. At my local gym I invariably hold the door open for men because I read somewhere that some men find it emasculating.
The first rule of common courtesy, you don't leave a door to close in someone's face.
The second rule of common courtesy, you don't leave a door to close in someone's face.
The third rule of common courtesy, you don't deny life...
Over a span of two years she goes from 365 lb to about 145 lb.
In every pair of trousers I have ever owned, I have been the exact same person; with the same thoughts, abilities, talents, intellect and heart. I didn’t just magically become smart, funny, talented and pretty when I could buy smaller jeans.
Then some dude she has never seen before opens the door for her at a convenience store.
That moment changed every single thing about me.
You can lose all the weight you want, but you're still ugly AF on the inside, hon.
We're not misunderstanding her point. We get the point, it's an obvious one, but her unoriginal, uninteresting point doesn't make her less of a jerk.
It's a fact that men prefer young women with blemish-free skin, ample yet firm breats and child-bearing hips and not overweight. Men will hold doors open for these women, that's how we're programmed.
anyone here ever hear of HAES? That's huge in the obese feminazi community.
Melody Greer, Proud Fat Chick...
I don't like dating really fat men.
I know: you're saying 'who are YOU -- a Fat Chick -- to discriminate against fat men?' I get it: it sounds like hypocrisy, doesn't it...?
It's not like I worry that they are going to eat all my ice cream: I can always buy more ice cream....
It's not like I can't look at a corpulent body: I see mine in the mirror, every day. Of course, I'm not fat AND hairy, which is kind of gross, but that's not my reason...
No, I don't date fat men because it is REALLY difficult for two fat people to have sex together. I mean, he can't see his penis because of his belly, I can't see my vagina because of my thighs: it's REALLY hard to get those items in the same vicinity, naked-wise....
I don't want to be in a relationship where the only sex is awkward blow-jobs, with rolls of sweaty belly above my head like ominous low storm clouds of fat...
So I try to stick to non-fat men, which really reduces my chances, as you can probably figure. People tell me I should lose just a little weight, that I have a pretty face. Pretty face? I haven't seen my real face since I was four years old: since then it has been safely hidden behind vast puffy cheeks and rippling layers of jowls -- I could spend two years losing this weight just to find out my 'true' face is skinny and Ugly as Hell: that would SUCK. Because you can lose Fat, but you can't lose Ugly....
Since I am alone a lot I watch a lot of Porn. Not that tender, feminine 'sensual' chick-porn shit: I want the REAL stuff, I want smeared make-up and positions impossible for a Fat Chick to even contemplate...
Of course, I don't like looking at those thin Porn women with the big plastic breasts that don't flop like pancakes when they lay down, so I mostly watch Male Gay Porn. It's not like the guy getting fucked in the ass is cheating me out of a man -- he's GAY: our selection circles don't overlap...
So, Fat Men: I appreciate what you're trying to do by talking to me, but it ain't going to happen. And Muscular Gay Men: if you ever find that you want to change up the gay dudes on occasion with a Fat Chick, please get in touch...
I am Laslo.
"The young hot ones, though: I check out their asses as they go inside..."
These things happen.
"Men will hold doors open for these women, that's how we're programmed."
Well, not really. That's why the door-opening issue is so banal and cliche, it's not a big deal and everyone gets that privilege. But for hot women, men don't just open doors, they'll buy them houses. THAT'S privilege.
Girl with the Pony Tail on the Treadmill:
A REALLY fat woman showed up at the Gym today.
(pony-tail swish, pony-tail swish)
REALLY fat. Like fat-on-fat.
(pony-tail swish, pony-tail swish)
She got on the treadmill two over from me, and I wondered if it could even take her weight. I hate when people break the equipment.
(pony-tail swish, pony-tail swish)
I have to admit: I felt revulsion at first. She was sweating like crazy thirty seconds after starting a slow walk.
(pony-tail swish, pony-tail swish)
But then I thought: at least she's trying to do SOMETHING about it.
(pony-tail swish, pony-tail swish)
Maybe she'll actually stick with it, and over the next year I'll watch her slowly get smaller and smaller. That could be kinda cool.
(pony-tail swish, pony-tail swish)
For a moment I thought about talking to her. Just saying "Hi", you know?
(pony-tail swish, pony-tail swish)
Then I thought: what if she talks to me, and KEEPS talking to me? Like all of a sudden I'm her 'gym-buddy'.
(pony-tail swish, pony-tail swish)
I don't want a 'gym-buddy'. I like keeping to myself at the gym. Just me and the treadmill.
(pony-tail swish, pony-tail swish)
And I would probably become her Inspiration.
(pony-tail swish, pony-tail swish)
I don't WANT to be anyone's Inspiration.
(pony-tail swish, pony-tail swish)
I don't want to motivate anyone. I don't want to offer "You go, girl" encouragement when all I want to do is run off that damn Starbucks Mocha I shouldn't have had.
(pony-tail swish, pony-tail swish)
And then -- no doubt -- she would tell me about 'bad days' where she stayed home from the gym the previous day and ate ice cream and shit.
(pony-tail swish, pony-tail swish)
NOT my problem.
(pony-tail swish, pony-tail swish)
Run more and eat less ice cream.
(pony-tail swish, pony-tail swish)
(pony-tail swish, pony-tail swish)
I was fat when I was a little girl.
(pony-tail swish, pony-tail swish)
And now I have an ass men obsess over. I made that happen. Me.
(pony-tail swish, pony-tail swish)
I still remember being a fat little girl, though. It sucked.
(pony-tail swish, pony-tail swish)
But I remember REALLY liking ice cream.
(pony-tail swish, pony-tail swish)
I am Laslo.
You are, indeed, Laslo.
Bravo.
Achilles said...
In Ranger Battalion during the wars we were on a rotation. Several months with no beer and no women. When we came back home after deployment there was a "tradition" calling whaling night.
There was a scale by the CQ desk.
There were prizes.
I was glad I didn't live in the barracks.
You're not supposed to reveal CONFIDENTIAL NOFORN stuff like that.
Laslo, that pony-tailed girl character is just about perfect.
What happens to her as she ages, even just a little? What if she gets pregnant? or discovers that she has lesbian or trans thoughts?
I had a grandmother, who I did love dearly, who was, to put it gently, extremely fat - I'm talking 5'2 and at least 250.
Now, she was funny, outspoken, very grandmotherly and of course, a great cook, who kept everyone well-fed. She went on long walks, and swam, but I doubt she ever did Jazzercise.
She was a widow the last 30 years of her life, and seemed to get along fine - but you never know. Maybe, she was lonely and depressed, but hid it from the Grandkids. She certainly never re-married after my Grandfather died, and I doubt she even had a date thereafter.
I guess the main thing about being fat is that it is unhealthy, not just unattractive. We all get flabby and soft over time (you see Elizabeth Taylor in her 50s and 60s?), but it just doesn't seem right to be young and fat. It means something has gone awry, either physically or mentally.
My 2 cents.
Confession time: Laslo is lol funny when I'm sober. Got high as fook with my girlfriend before she went to work -- Laslo is roflmao funny with a buzz. I've had to walk away from my laptop three times on this thread alone. Thank you, Laslo. Thank you.
Swish, swish
Gospace said...
You're not supposed to reveal CONFIDENTIAL NOFORN stuff like that.
So I am not supposed to say they would tell the trophy catches the CQ desk had to take a copy of their drivers licenses to enter the barracks and post scoreboards with the difference between license weight and actual weight? I am sure the IG put a stop to it and anything else remotely entertaining in any case.
I will also point out there were a number of men that PREFERRED the fat chicks because of the enthusiasm. Boy was there enthusiasm...
She might have lost a lot of weight, but her body is probably all sliced up. You have to physically remove a lot of skin, and the surgeons don't really have a good way to do that and not leave you looking like you were a bombing victim.
She's expressing sadness at the realization of what the door opening means. It's not traditional etiquette borne of respect for women. It's special treatment for some women.
Not at all. She is looking at behavior through a toxic lens of her own making and ascribing motives she really has no clue about.
I had a friend like that - a heavily over-weight woman who darkly judged all interactions she had with others through the "You only did/did not do X because I'M FAT!!"
No one wants to deal with angry or irrational people. It's the attitude, not the fat.
If I get to the door first, I open it for the person behind me. I someone holds open a door for me, I say "thank you."
That's called "good manners." And I know there are a lot of people raised in barns who are not familiar with the concept. And just plain rude people who are equal opportunity in their obnoxiousness.
Stacie needs professional psychological help, not a column in which to parade her toxicity as a badge of courage.
Moving parts in rubbing contact require lubrication to avoid excessive wear. Honorifics and formal politeness provide lubrication where people rub together. Often the very young, the untravelled, the naive, the unsophisticated deplore these formalities as "empty," "meaningless," or "dishonest," and scorn to use them. No matter how "pure" their motives, they thereby throw sand into machinery that does not work too well at best. ~~ Robert Heinlein
I would be much more inclined to help someone, man or woman, with an apparent physical problem (such as obesity) where they look like they can really use the help, than someone who looks fit enough to handle a door or not need a seat or whatever.
Don't generalize about people you don't know.
AReasonableMan said...
At my local gym I invariably hold the door open for men because I read somewhere that some men find it emasculating.
2/26/17, 1:19 PM
Why would you be like that? Why would you be that person? Being that person, why would you admit it?
Bob Ellison said...
"Laslo, that pony-tailed girl character is just about perfect.
What happens to her as she ages, even just a little? What if she gets pregnant? or discovers that she has lesbian or trans thoughts?"
Good questions. But I really don't have an idea about those things with her.
Sometimes I'll read something Althouse wrote and I'll find pony-tail girl just comes to the surface. Not sure where I'm heading when I start writing, I just follow her line of thinking, get in the rhythm, stay in the moment, swish swish.
I worry if I think about it too much I'll lose the touch.
Probably sounds pretentious, but can't really explain it otherwise...
I am Laslo.
No, it's not pretentious. There's that old saying some fiction writer said, something about I just make the characters and then let them do what they're gonna do. You're doing the right thing, letting the characters run.
Bruce asks: I am going to ask the heretical- why do we still open doors (and hold them) for women, in this age of female privilege?
Because to do otherwise would be to surrender to their idea that everything is political.
Opening doors for others is a sign of a polite and considerate culture. Go visit places where such social niceties aren't practiced. Not good.
Darleen quotes: Moving parts in rubbing contact require lubrication to avoid excessive wear. Honorifics and formal politeness provide lubrication where people rub together. Often the very young, the untravelled, the naive, the unsophisticated deplore these formalities as "empty," "meaningless," or "dishonest," and scorn to use them. No matter how "pure" their motives, they thereby throw sand into machinery that does not work too well at best. ~~ Robert Heinlein
That's pretty much what my mother used to say when, as a youngster, I would point to the insincerity of manners. Maybe she read Heinlein. She read a lot. Can't read much any more, sadly.
As we said in the service, "she's spring-loaded to the pissed-off position."
why do we still open doors (and hold them) for women, in this age of female privilege?
cuz....I wanna check out her ass.
"He opened that door for me because I wasn’t physically offensive to him, and I knew. And it was in that moment that I realised how terrible we are as a society to people, based solely on their appearance. This realisation broke me. It broke me in a way that I’ve never been broken before. He certainly didn’t deserve my outburst, but in that moment I couldn’t help myself."
She is completely judging everyone and assumingnhtier motivations based on her own self hatred.
What one person does with hodling open a door had literally no bearing on what another person does while not holding open a door.
She STILL assumes she can speak for this man and asign a motivation to his actions. "He opened the door because I wasn't physically offensive to him" how does she KNOW What he thinks?
Maybe he opens doors for all women because he's a gentleman. Maybe the last time someone didn't open the door she was dealing with a total cad who doesn't hold doors open for anyone. Or maybe the individual specifically didn't hold doors open for fat people. Who knows?
but THIS fuy is different from that guy. his action then are not representative of All Guys. She still assigns blame to everyone. When she is really only basing her actions on the few times someone didn't hold a door open for her. That's just anecdoatal evidence.
For my part, I USED to hold open doors for everyone. But I noticed over time that women who are my age or older are gracious and say thank you. But if we are talking about a teenager or a woman in her 20's they often just walk in and say nothing. Or they actually get offended (no one has ever gotten offended at me directly, but I've seen women get offended when men held doors open for them). This is anecdoatal too, I admit. But, over time it has caused me to not really care if I don't hold doors open for certain people. I no longer go out of my way to be courteous. I do t slam doors in their face, but nor will I stand at the door and keep it open.Because, why bother?
So, if I didn't hold the door open for HER, it wouldn't be because I found her offensive. It might be because I am tired of holding doors open for people who don't say thank you.she would view my not opening a door as Judging her appearance.
Beciase of what this cow did the guy who held the door open for her might think twice about opening doors for other women.if you do somthing nice and the reward is some harpy chews your face off, are you going to keep holding the door?
And then, if he does hold the door open is the next woman who has low self esteem who he doesn't hold the door open for goignto asume he didn't hold the door open for her because she's fat?
I open the door for every woman I encounter. I also let women go first onto and off of the elevator. It's what my wife taught me to do.
Here in Montana people hold the door for other people. Period. Sex or appearance has nothing to do with it.
It's a common courtesy.
So she was so fat men started treating her the way they'd treat anyone but an attractive woman? The heart, it bleeds.
Attractive people receive better treatment in social situations than do unattractive people.
Earth-shaking stuff.
She is completely judging everyone and assumingnhtier motivations based on her own self hatred.
[Class] diversitists deny individual dignity.
First, how does she know what the motivation of the people opening the doors was? Second; why should she expect respect from others when she clearly had no self respect for herself until she lost weight. Third; there is nothing more obnoxious than the convert who has to tell everyone how wonderful she is that she converted.
"Beauty is only skin deep, but ugliness goes right to the core." --Kurt Vonnegut Jr.
my mother did not teach me to only hold the door for beautiful women.
She somehow seems . . . unreliable.
"It's special treatment for some women."
It would be, if it were the case, but it's not.
khesanh0802: "First, how does she know what the motivation of the people opening the doors was?"
All leftists have the ability to read minds and discern guilt of those who believe differently than they.
The science is settled. Obviously.
Blogger Laslo Spatula said...
"Addendum to 2/26/17, 7:29 AM:
Yoga Pants.
I am Laslo."
This falls under;"Rustys' Law of Piercings, Tattoos and Spandex.
Which states. In any given population there is only two percent of people that will look good in either or all of those things. The likelihood that you will are, for all practical purposes, nonexistent.
Melody Greer, Proud Fat Chick said:
And -- yes -- I CAN do a successful job of wiping my ass effectively: I know some Fat Chicks have problems with that, but I have a sponge on a stick, it does the job just fine...
--
So..when out and about among public doors, does the "sponge on a stick" travel with her?
Might be sensible to keep some distance..from the challenged dudes as well.
By the way, I worked on a project where the main contact was a similarly challenged woman whose first name is Rotunda. Awkward.
It is quite hard to become 400 lbs and not notice it. "Oh my god, what happened? How did I get so big?" It is a sure indicator in most cases of someone lacking self-discipline, lacking any concern for their health, lacking self-respect. Just like someone who is extreme Goth with lots of piercings, except in that case it is even more clearly voluntary. And people should not react negatively to such signs of unwellness?
The only time I ever got out of a speeding ticket was driving home after an early morning college theater tech rehearsal. I hadn't showered in at least 24 hours and had zit cream on my face.
Rusty said...
This falls under;"Rustys' Law of Piercings, Tattoos and Spandex.
Which states. In any given population there is only two percent of people that will look good in either or all of those things. The likelihood that you will are, for all practical purposes, nonexistent.
The thing about yoga pants is they have a way of smoothing out the leg and putting it in the most flattering possible light. They really are quite distracting.
98% of the women in yoga pants are attempting to put 5 pounds of meat into a two pound sausage casing. It makes the resultant cameltoe,....horrifying.
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