Althouse: "I take no pleasure in saying this, but the fact is — there is no excuse for us black voters to remain in such a supine and infantilized state..."

December 21, 2016

"I take no pleasure in saying this, but the fact is — there is no excuse for us black voters to remain in such a supine and infantilized state..."

"... that a Republican controlled legislature in, say, NC can neuter the effect of black citizens merely by asking them to present an ID card. Frankly, I find that entire argument to be patronizing in the extreme. How is it that the uneducated, opiate-addicted and under-employed white voters who came out in droves for Trump at his rallies and later in the voting booth, and who thereby made him our next president — how is it that such 'deplorables' are able to pull the lever, but their black counterparts need a federal court in order to have their constitutional rights validated?"

Writes Glenn Loury.

He's reacting to a petition "demanding that Congress nullify the Supreme Court's decision in Shelby County v. Holder — the case which struck down section iv(b) of the Voting Rights Act of 1965." That's his characterization of the petition.

93 comments:

rhhardin said...: It's nice that somebody's noticing.

The chip on the shoulder remaining glued there by every narrative is a big part of it.

Stop glorifying the chip, for a start.; 12/21/16, 10:32 AM
rhhardin said...: Loury is glorifying a new chip, which maybe isn't the way out.; 12/21/16, 10:33 AM
Gahrie said...: I've always wondered why nobody has challenged the implicit racism of the Left's claim that voter IDs disenfranchise minorities.

Ami Horowitz finally did, in a very effective way.

https://youtu.be/rrBxZGWCdgs; 12/21/16, 10:39 AM
Megthered said...: So its infantalizing someone if you ask for ID when they want to buy booze, or cuts, or get on an airplane, or get treatment at your doctor or buy a car or a house or get a credit card. These people who resent being treated like children don't complain when the dems control them with EBT cards and free shit.; 12/21/16, 10:42 AM
rhhardin said...: Free shit has to be made to seem attractive.

It's owed to you, is the line. Because of your chip.

Otherwise you might take control of your life.; 12/21/16, 10:44 AM
Truthavenger said...: It doesn't matter whether you are black, or an "uneducated, opiate-addicted and under-employed white."

Show a goddamn photo ID when you go to vote.; 12/21/16, 10:45 AM
buwaya said...: On one level he is correct. This is a demeaning assumption to make of any people, since it is such a standard procedure in all civilized countries, most of them poorer and more problem-ridden than Black Americans. If these places can do it, and turn out at greater than US rates in spite of it, it amounts to an insult to say that US blacks can't manage it.

On the level of practical politics though, this is a big deal as it will harm black-politician-electing Democratic political machines which have developed techniques around turnout even in those cases which aren't fraudulent. They are accustomed to round up people on the day, not to plan ahead and develop relationships ongoing. I have seen how this works in SF and Oakland. "Activists" are usually layabouts who roust themselves and actually work just one day a year, rounding people up off the street and driving them to vote.; 12/21/16, 10:45 AM
Gahrie said...: These people who resent being treated like children

It is the Left's political operatives who oppose voter ID, because it would prevent the fraud that Democratic political machines rely upon. Most minorities think the position is insulting and absurd.; 12/21/16, 10:46 AM
bagoh20 said...: He could avoided insulting anyone by just pointing out that even dead people manage to get their votes in.; 12/21/16, 10:57 AM
Hammond X. Gritzkofe said...: Having a hard time disentangling this one.

Black voters are in a supine and infantilized state? They arrive at the polling place in gurneys and prams?

"...uneducated, opiate-addicted and under-employed white voters who came out in droves..." Are there no droves of uneducated, opiate-addicted and under-employed black voters?; 12/21/16, 11:00 AM
Gahrie said...: Are there no droves of uneducated, opiate-addicted and under-employed black voters?

Sure...but they didn't come out to vote because of their inability to obtain an ID...

/sarc; 12/21/16, 11:02 AM
bagoh20 said...: It's 2016. Why can't we just have an online system that the polling people use to check in voters. It could be very current on things like dead, unregistered, ineligible, and already voted people. the silly giant paper things on 1960's computer paper are ridiculous. They were current technology at one time, and we used them then. Why can't we have current state-of-the-art in voting now when it could really help?

Oh. Right. Because Democrats. They do like dumb and illegal.; 12/21/16, 11:04 AM
Rocketeer said...: Loury's construction is less than clear, but he's arguing that UNLESS they're in a supine and infantilized state, there is no legitimate argument against voter ID.; 12/21/16, 11:06 AM
Michael K said...: "Most minorities think the position is insulting and absurd."

Anybody see the videos of Berkeley leftists and black NY City residents on voter ID?; 12/21/16, 11:08 AM
n.n said...: Loury is mislead by his class prejudice. The opiates are drugs, irresponsible behavior, spoiled-child syndrome, and other obsessions, too; but it is also redistributive and retributive change. It is perpetual smoothing functions that corrupt and destroy the human spirit, the equal application of law, and the government established for the People and our Posterity. Hence the need for revitalization, rehabilitation, and reconciliation.; 12/21/16, 11:09 AM
Brando said...: Well I take pleasure in saying it--it's ridiculous to assume blacks cannot provide ID.

I've heard the argument that there are some people (generally aged, handicapped or poor) who for various reasons simply cannot get a state-issued ID. Rather than scrap the requirement completely, how about cooperate to find a way to get IDs for this likely small number of people? The state seems to be able to track these people for social security benefits and the like, so it shouldn't be a daunting task. Can't we at least agree that the integrity of our voting should be a compelling state interest?; 12/21/16, 11:09 AM
Gahrie said...: Anybody see the videos of Berkeley leftists and black NY City residents on voter ID?

I gave a link above, but I can never remember how to embed them...I've barely mastered italics and bold.; 12/21/16, 11:12 AM
Nonapod said...: Yeah, the whole argument against voter ID is utterly idiotic and insulting and ironically racist. Even though the debate itself is well trodden ground I'm glad more people on the left are openly admitting it.; 12/21/16, 11:13 AM
Gahrie said...: Can't we at least agree that the integrity of our voting should be a compelling state interest?

Nope.

Voter fraud is too integral to Democratic machines.; 12/21/16, 11:14 AM
Brando said...: "Yeah, the whole argument against voter ID is utterly idiotic and insulting and ironically racist."

Fits with a lot of leftist beliefs--blacks must be dumb, weak, and unable to control themselves, so society must be structured around that.; 12/21/16, 11:15 AM
edutcher said...: State non-driver IDs cost less than a driver's license. In some cases, significantly less.

PS In India, the government provides a verified ID for voting.

Free.; 12/21/16, 11:18 AM
bagoh20 said...: ""...uneducated, opiate-addicted and under-employed white voters who came out in droves..." "
I doubt there was much of that happening at the rallies or the polls. You don't pass up education, and a paycheck to sit around getting high and then snap out of your nod to go to a rally or vote.

You should be able to register to vote with your dealer.; 12/21/16, 11:18 AM
Bay Area Guy said...: The Soft Bigotry of Low Expectations.

Call me oppressive, but, Yes, I do think the vast majority of adults, including blacks, can easily get an ID.

In fact, there is not one adult I know in my entire life who doesn't have an ID.

It's pretty basic. Hard to live without one.; 12/21/16, 11:19 AM
hawkeyedjb said...: Leftists don't mind ID laws for getting onto airplanes. It's another sign of their personal racism: they don't mind if black people vote, but they certainly don't want to sit next to them on a crowded airplane.; 12/21/16, 11:25 AM
buwaya said...: It would require "activists" to actually organize and work, to look for people with no ID and help them get one. There is a lot of political money going to these people year round, and much more during GOTV efforts in election years.

But the truth is much of these payments are really political payoffs to buy loyalty and the funders arent following up to see that actual work is being done.; 12/21/16, 11:25 AM
Hagar said...: Some people even have several ID's.; 12/21/16, 11:29 AM
David said...: Is there evidence that black voters are having difficulty voting legally in NC?

We have a voter ID requirement in SC, but with provisional ballots where there is an issue. Where I vote the election clerks are 80+ plus very friendly and helpful older black women. They are not going to try to prevent anyone from voting for any nefarious reason. I realized this is inconclusive evidence but it's really not clear to me whether there is a problem.

I think this is what the Supreme Court was concerned with as well.; 12/21/16, 11:31 AM
Brando said...: "It would require "activists" to actually organize and work, to look for people with no ID and help them get one. There is a lot of political money going to these people year round, and much more during GOTV efforts in election years."

They know full well that most people have or can get ID, and the small number of cases where it's very difficult shouldn't be hard to identify and help out. But they'd rather make a big deal out of it because this way they can say the Republicans are trying to suppress the black vote, and try to get more blacks encouraged to vote to spite the GOP.; 12/21/16, 11:31 AM
David said...: That's 80 percent + friendly and helpful older black women.; 12/21/16, 11:32 AM
mccullough said...: Congress can't nullify the Shelby decision. It can go back to the drawing board by holding hearings about discrimination against voters in various locales, make some reasoned findings, and then pass reasonable measures to remedy and/or prevent the problem. Perhaps voter ID is discriminatory in intent or impact in some states. But Congress has to investigate, and part of that investigation is to look into voter rolls and registrations and any fraudulent voting.; 12/21/16, 11:36 AM
HoodlumDoodlum said...: Look, if your rights are being violated by the State it's not wrong to say so and to take the appropriate legal action.
In taking that action you should try to avoid portraying yourself as helpless, weak, etc, though--that's also the case.

In a lot of these types of situations, though, I can't help but question the sincerity of the petitioners. I mean, what does it cost to mount this legal challenge & lobbying against these bills/rules, and what would it cost to create a charity that subsidized getting proper ID (and registration, etc) for poor people/poor black people? If the people in question were helped to get the ID, then the actual effect of the law (even if one thinks it's a bad law) would be 0, right?

So, I guess, 2 things: 1.) it's not wrong to challenge laws & State actions you think violate your rights, but 2.) pleading for relief from some other part of the State (on account of your own weakness/inability to do anything else) shouldn't be ALL you do.; 12/21/16, 11:39 AM
MAJMike said...: Don't they need photo I.D. to get their welfare benefits?; 12/21/16, 11:39 AM
khesanh0802 said...: I love Loury's characterization of those that voted for Trump. That will get him a long way toward his goal - whatever it is. How hard is it to get an ID? Really?!? Are blacks too stupid, or lazy, or poorly educated to get the necessary identification to vote? Loury certainly doesn't think much of the capabilities of people of his own race. If they want to get on an airplane or go to an Obama rally or buy beer or, in MN, to buy a hunting license, they have to have ID. But not to vote? Come on, man!

I know Ann and Loury have discussions, but I have never paid much attention. After reading this piece I will pay even less.; 12/21/16, 11:40 AM
MAJMike said...: Perhaps minorities are just too stupid to secure no-fee Government I.D.; 12/21/16, 11:41 AM
Michael K said...: I provided the link to the video in my comment.

The present flap about "hacking" should be used as an open door to voter ID.; 12/21/16, 11:47 AM
Wilbur said...: I suspect that "uneducated, opiate-addicted and under-employed white voters" don't vote much either.

I've informally debated the subject on several occasions with leftist friends. What usually ends the debate is the simple question "Name me one person who was prevented from voting by a voter ID law?".; 12/21/16, 11:54 AM
DanTheMan said...: >>How is it that the uneducated, opiate-addicted and under-employed white voters who came out in droves for Trump at his rallies and later in the voting booth, and who thereby made him our next president..

Just for fun...
Imagine that some white male tried to explain Obama's 2008 victory in such terms, describing similar black voters.; 12/21/16, 11:57 AM
Dude1394 said...: One of the comments said

"I refuse to take seriously anyone who says they can not get an ID".

Correct.; 12/21/16, 12:00 PM
wildswan said...: It may be that if the Democrats had not been using fraud in the black areas they would have picked up signals from the real black voters which would have told them that they must change course. So this opposition to voter ID is just more of the Democrats doubling down on failure. A Machiavellian Republican would therefore support opposition to voter ID. But in the real world we need clean politics which means we need to drain the swamp every now and then. We need to improve the signal-to-noise ratio in the "black vote" and find out what the real black voters think, without being confused by fake voters.; 12/21/16, 12:01 PM
CWJ said...: "I take no pleasure in saying this..."

Who would expect you to? Who would suspect you did? What an odd thing thing to say.; 12/21/16, 12:04 PM
Big Mike said...: How is it that the uneducated, opiate-addicted and under-employed white voters ...

I have no time for bigots from either side of the racial divide. If Glenn Loury was judged by the content of his character instead of by the color of his skin, he would be something to scrape off the bottom of your shoes.; 12/21/16, 12:07 PM
Mike (MJB Wolf) said...: Note to Glenn:

Black people have all the same rights as White people, including VOTING you idiot!

Your own Federal government REQUIRES an I.D. to get Social Security, access Section 8 housing, board a flight, obtain a drivers license, open a bank account, work for the government, apply for welfare, or enter a courthouse.

Asking for I.D. is not DISCRIMINATION and it not harder for Black people to obtain than White people.

You are infantilizing your own people for the purposes of political gamesmanship. They are not babies. Black people can do all kinds of things you apparently think them incapable of pulling off.

Seeing as Blacks are overrepresented in public employment, maybe your theory is wrong.; 12/21/16, 12:21 PM
Brando said...: "Who would expect you to? Who would suspect you did? What an odd thing thing to say."

He seems to be saying "I can see why a lot of people would take pleasure in mocking the poor, betrodden white people that I assume make up Trump's base, but I am a morally superior person who takes no such pleasure, so give me credit."; 12/21/16, 12:21 PM
n.n said...: The common standard is undue burden. With a multi-trillion dollar welfare economy, numerous "not for profit" civil rights corporations, and a declaration of universal medical insurance, there is no cause to believe that any American citizen is burdened by the democratic requirement to document eligibility.; 12/21/16, 12:23 PM
Lyle Smith said...: Glenn's comment about opiate addicted whites isn't a racist or bigoted comment. He's riffing off of perceived stereotypes of so-called "deplorables". And stereotypes are usually grounded in a bit of truth. There are in fact very poor white people who are drug users and who still vote. It's like confusing the statement "some Mexicans are rapists" with the statement "all Mexicans are rapists".; 12/21/16, 12:24 PM
MikeR said...: "I love Loury's characterization of those that voted for Trump. That will get him a long way toward his goal - whatever it is." Meh. He is speaking to people who think that way, and pointing out that they're still wrong. Loury is good.; 12/21/16, 12:29 PM
Lyle Smith said...: Glenn isn't against voter ID. Some of you are not understanding him. He is saying the idea that people can't vote because they need an ID is ridiculous. Anybody eligible to vote can get an ID. No one is stopping them.; 12/21/16, 12:29 PM
Gahrie said...: Asking for I.D. is not DISCRIMINATION and it not harder for Black people to obtain than White people.

I think that's actually the point that Loury is attempting to make...; 12/21/16, 12:30 PM
Michael said...: The deplorables were able to hie themselves in their opiated haze to the voting booth. They have IDs, how else to buy the over the counter drugs necessary to cook up their crank?

Loury unmakes his own argument, basically demeaning his race as inferior in ingenuity or drive to the deplorable toothless addicted hillbilly racist woman hating redneck fascist hitlers who made it to the polls.; 12/21/16, 12:30 PM
Fernandinande said...: uneducated, opiate-addicted and under-employed white voters who came out in droves for Trump

Glenn Loury's rather an asshole to make such a generalization - some of us are completely unemployed.; 12/21/16, 12:34 PM
Gahrie said...: Loury unmakes his own argument, basically demeaning his race as inferior in ingenuity or drive to the deplorable toothless addicted hillbilly racist woman hating redneck fascist hitlers who made it to the polls.

No no no.

Loury is saying that those people who insist that voter id laws are racist are implying that Black people are inferior in ingenuity or drive to the deplorable toothless addicted hillbilly racist woman hating redneck fascist hitlers who made it to the polls; 12/21/16, 12:36 PM
Bushman of the Kohlrabi said...: Seems to be a lot of folks commenting without reading Glenn's post.; 12/21/16, 12:39 PM
bleh said...: Many of you are completely misunderstanding Loury. He's saying the liberal position on voter ID laws is racist. That's it. He's saying to liberals, "you think less of blacks than you do the deplorables who turned out for Trump."

He's making an argument about liberalism that most conservatives would agree with.; 12/21/16, 12:43 PM
Rocketeer said...: A whole bunch of you are so itching to get pissy over voter ID you're punching on Loury even though he agrees with you. READ CAREFULLY what he's saying, folks.; 12/21/16, 12:50 PM
Anonymous said...: BDNYC is right. Loury is saying that liberals are condescending to black voters in claiming that they can't exercise their franchise because of voter ID laws, while (and he deliberately uses the negative stereotype that these same critics use of Trump voters) "idiot white voters" somehow managed to show up and vote. His message is quite the opposite of what people took from that blurb. At least, that's how I read it.; 12/21/16, 12:50 PM
Michael K said...: His message is quite the opposite of what people took from that blurb. At least, that's how I read it.

And that was the message of the video I linked to.

The Berkeley white leftists assumed blacks were too stupid and uninformed to use or get voter ID. The Harlem backs resented the implication.; 12/21/16, 12:58 PM
Michael said...: Gahrie

My bad. So Loury and I agree.; 12/21/16, 1:02 PM
Mike (MJB Wolf) said...: Boy! Loury out of context just sounds like boilerplate liberalism. If I cared enough to click through to his whole screed -- I don't, because of his racist characterization of Trump voters that is off putting even if drawn as a foil -- perhaps I would have deduced the satiric element that eluded me.

Good for you who saw through it. Or to it. That's a lot of work to comprehend a guy I've never been impressed by. Will he move the needle towards SANE with his remarks? Who knows.; 12/21/16, 1:07 PM
J. Farmer said...: Glenn Loury is an interesting figure. He's moved to the left since his early 80s Reagan era black conservatism, but he's much too smart and rigorous of a thinker to completely accept the racial bromides that are proffered on the left. His Blogginghead dialogues with John McWhorter, another clear thinker on race-related issues, are essential listening for anyone interested in the topic of race in America. Of course, on the subject, I am much to Loury and McWhorter's right, but I appreciate their contributions to the discussion.; 12/21/16, 1:13 PM
Ron Winkleheimer said...: It's almost amusing watching people twist themselves into knots trying to defend the position that requiring ID to vote is discriminatory.

I have a friend, nice guy, very intelligent, but total leftist. When I asked him how requiring an ID to vote would be discriminatory he went into this long hypothetical about how someone in Texas might have to drive a long distance to acquire an ID and if they were poor they might not be able to afford to make the trip or at the very least, lose one or even two days work. I just looked at him. Clearly the position is not based on rational thinking and is just a matter of virtual signaling. Proper, educated, and most importantly, upper-class people are against voter ID laws. Its that simple.; 12/21/16, 1:20 PM
n.n said...: The argument is not with Loury's plea for empowerment, it is with framing a class of people -- notably identified by skin color -- in a negative light thereby propagating class diversity. He could have framed the issue in neutral terms based on principles. Instead, he chooses to engender and exploit a progressive prejudice. Instead, he is delegitimizing the People's choice through association with negative stereotypes.; 12/21/16, 1:22 PM
Ron Winkleheimer said...: PC is simply a way to differentiate yourself from the hoi polloi.

Leftist politicians use this to support opinions that no rational person could possibly entertain.

The proper opinion on voter ID is that it is discriminatory against blacks, because you care.; 12/21/16, 1:27 PM
Ron Winkleheimer said...: If you are not against voter ID laws then you are not "down with the struggle."

And not being down with the struggle would mean you don't get a free pass for helping to ethnically cleanse, excuse me, I mean gentrify, a black neighborhood.

And then your going to feel bad while you're drinking your eight dollar cup of coffee and surfing the net on free wifi in a building that used to house a business owned by a black guy, but no longer because he couldn't get his lease renewed, cause the building's owner knew he could get more rent from Starbucks.

And feeling bad is NOT OK!; 12/21/16, 1:34 PM
n.n said...: how is it that such 'deplorables' are able to pull the lever, but their black counterparts

Fair enough. People are only human with all of our attendant and variable weaknesses and strengths. Now back to an affirmative action that addresses class-based prejudice and its perversion to reconstitute institutional racism and sexism.; 12/21/16, 1:34 PM
Ron Winkleheimer said...: Also, you are doing poor blacks a favor by providing them affordable housing in the suburbs and small towns where there are no jobs or public transportation.

It has absolutely nothing to do with wanting to develop condos and mixed use neighborhoods in the city centers that poor blacks now occupy.

NOTHING AT ALL!; 12/21/16, 1:41 PM
khesanh0802 said...: For those of you who are defending Loury's position because we are misreading him I say two things:

1. he insulted me as a Trump voters right at the beginning. That is not a good way to get me to calmly read the rest of his piece.

2. I did read the rest of his piece and my reading comprehension is pretty good. He may be agreeing with those of us who are taking him to task, but if that is the case then I would say his writing is far from clear. I feel that I only have to read closely contracts and legal decisions. If I get confused at my standard depth of reading then it's a pretty good bet the author has not made himself clear.

As for Loury's description of Trump voters, I would be happy that the next time Ann talks with him she tells him for me to go fuck himself.; 12/21/16, 1:43 PM
Fabi said...: When I went to his linked Facebook post, I was somewhat shocked to see that Glenn and I have two mutual friends. Lulz; 12/21/16, 2:22 PM
Susan said...: I suspect the audience for this article is not the people who would be offended by his depiction of Trump supporters as deplorable, white, toothless meth addicts but those who agree with that description. While they are nodding along in agreement, he then explains they they are saying fine upstanding people of color are less capable than inbred Trump hillbillies.
.
I have asked liberals "Why do you think minorities are incapable of obtaining IDs? Are you some sort of racist?

They are horrified at the thought. It doesn't seem to occur to them that is what they are saying though.; 12/21/16, 2:37 PM
Rick said...: Did he not understand this is part of the game? Students pretend Halloween costumes or Trump votes make them feel unsafe so people in power can justify their actions as protecting them. The people in power can't claim these feeling. Not only would admitting this cause a (well deserved) loss of status the appropriate action would be to fire them. They have to pretend to be acting for someone else. Then anything can be justified.

Is the black role any different?

Glenn Loury is 68 years old and he's just now figuring this out? Where has he been?; 12/21/16, 2:38 PM
Bob Loblaw said...: That's 80 percent + friendly and helpful older black women.

Heh heh. I was thinking I should look into how people live in a place where 80+ black women are in such good health.; 12/21/16, 2:52 PM
kentuckyliz said...: Isn't it infantilizing to assert that uneducated, opiate-addicted and under-employed white folks can grab their ID and go vote, but Black folks can't?; 12/21/16, 2:54 PM
Brando said...: "They are horrified at the thought. It doesn't seem to occur to them that is what they are saying though."

It's part of how in this country we are politically in two different worlds. They see it as a constant victim/oppressor relationship, and so it is not insulting to them to consider blacks as victims, and to blame institutional racism for the obstacles the black community faces. As the victimhood of blacks is so self-evident (to them) it's not really an insult, any more than the rest of us would consider a bleeding man lying in the street to be a victim.; 12/21/16, 2:55 PM
Lyle Smith said...: Glenn was not taking to task Trump supporters! I am a Trump supporter and have no reason to be angrily triggered by what Glenn wrote.; 12/21/16, 3:01 PM
Rick said...: it's not really an insult, any more than the rest of us would consider a bleeding man lying in the street to be a victim.

When your example becomes a stubbed toe your conclusion should change. It becomes an insult when the supposed obstacles are routine events that everyone deals with (including blacks in reality).

All of this is a result of the left inventing a fantasy to justify their preferences. The fantasy has become more prevalent in education (including law school) which both repels those who won't indulge it and exacts consequences for those who enter without fully embracing it. As a result those government and legal rulings are ever more extreme while those who don't indulge the fantasy are ever more appalled.

Hence Trump.; 12/21/16, 3:13 PM
Balfegor said...: I don't follow Loury, but my impression of him had been that he was generally on the side of those "infantilizing" black voters. So I'm pleased to see he apparently recognises that Blacks are no more incapable of getting photo ID than anyone else.

In fact, most Black voters probably already have photo idea, and if they haven't, it would be an easy (and worthwhile) thing to combine voter registration drives with drives to get people photo ID. For heavens sake, you can't even enter most government buildings without photo ID, so a lack of photo ID is arguably as much of an impediment to the full exercise of citizenship as being unable to vote!; 12/21/16, 3:13 PM
Brando said...: "When your example becomes a stubbed toe your conclusion should change. It becomes an insult when the supposed obstacles are routine events that everyone deals with (including blacks in reality)."

I'm not describing my point of view, but the point of view of those who choose to always see blacks as victims.; 12/21/16, 3:17 PM
Rick said...: I'm not describing my point of view, but the point of view of those who choose to always see blacks as victims.

Yes, and I'm describing why it's wrong.; 12/21/16, 3:29 PM
campy said...: "I take no pleasure in saying this ..." is usually as true as "It's not about the money."; 12/21/16, 3:48 PM
Bob Ellison said...: I think a few of you here are misreading Loury's comments and estimations.

He seems mostly to be saying that blacks should not be fools. Some of his commentary is sarcastic.; 12/21/16, 4:19 PM
I'm Full of Soup said...: We need a Good Vote Keeping Seal of Approval and states and counties can earn one by following recommended procedures.

One step I'd recommend is that, no later than 30 days before a general election, each county should mail a sample ballot to every registered voter. The mailing should be personally addressed to each registered voter and inform them of the address and the hours of their polling place.; 12/21/16, 4:32 PM
Original Mike said...: "Frankly, I find that entire argument to be patronizing in the extreme."

Hello!; 12/21/16, 5:11 PM
JAORE said...: "It's 2016. Why can't we just have an online system that the polling people use to check in voters."

And then, when the headlines scream voting hacked, they could well be true. (And, yes, I know this isn't on-line voting.)

Where I live they have printed lists of registered voters. You show an ID, they mark your name with a highlighter and they give you a ballot that is read by machine. No internet involved, a nice paper trail and we all go home happy.

Of course that won't work if you insist someone can "register" 30 seconds before they vote, but that's a sacrifice I'm willing to make.; 12/21/16, 5:13 PM
PB said...: Barking mad. Every where voter ID is established in the modern age, black turn-out increases.

If you're against voter ID, you're for vote fraud. If you're against reviewing voter rolls to expunge people who are illegal, dead, have moved, or never existed at all, you're for vote fraud.

Count 'em up:
- 15 million illegals in US. 15% are registered to voted. 80% of registered illegals vote. that comes to 1.8 million illegal votes.

- 1-2% of registered voters commit vote fraud by voting for someone else or being registered in multiple places and voting in multiple places. That's 1.3-2.6 million illegal votes.

That's 3.1 to 4.4 million illegal votes.; 12/21/16, 5:29 PM
CWJ said...: Brando @12:21,

Really? He mentions white people later, I repeat later, in the paragraph, but it's a huge stretch to say that's the group to whom he's refering in his I take no pleasure comment. It's nothing more than a rhetorical convention, but a strange one in this circumstance. But you've trolled me into spending more effort on this than I intended. So there's that.; 12/21/16, 6:49 PM
Balfegor said...: Re: Bob Elison:

He seems mostly to be saying that blacks should not be fools. Some of his commentary is sarcastic.

Yes -- it's not necessarily wholly clear from the excerpt, but in the longer statement linked, I think it's clear enough that he's saying it's patronizing nonsense to argue that photo ID is a practically insurmountable barrier to Black participation in elections.; 12/21/16, 6:50 PM
Lyle Smith said...: It could be said that some of you are as sensitive as a snowflake.; 12/21/16, 7:50 PM
Joe said...: My repeated question about this is, who the fuck doesn't have a legal ID?; 12/21/16, 7:56 PM
damikesc said...: His point was that no explanation exists, outside of racism, why progressives think blacks specifically cannot manage to get photo ID that all other groups, including the "lowest rungs" of that group, are widely able to get and nobody pretends is any unfair imposition upon them.

Hr's not saying all whites use meth or the like. Just that the people who decry voter ID laws as being racist must view blacks as being even LESS competent than the lowest white person, who manages to do it without a huge uproar. Which makes those critics of the law dramatically more racist than the laws they are protesting.

I'm not describing my point of view, but the point of view of those who choose to always see blacks as victims.

Yes, and I'm describing why it's wrong.

As was Loury.; 12/21/16, 10:12 PM
Johnathan Birks said...: Well this overemployed white voter isn't addicted to opioids. I can quit any time...; 12/21/16, 11:23 PM
Doug said...: Voter ID laws make it harder for inner city ward heelers to pay Kwantavious $50 per vote to cast five ballots for five guys who happen to be in prison.; 12/22/16, 5:20 AM
Brando said...: "Yes, and I'm describing why it's wrong."

No worries--I had the impression you figured that was my view.

"But you've trolled me into spending more effort on this than I intended. So there's that."

More teasing Glenn than trolling, as the "I take no pleasure in saying this..." thing is usually a way of saying "I'm about to let it rip but don't want anyone jumping down my throat so here's my disclaimer..." Up there with "not to be racist, but..." which allows you to basically say something racist.

Though I prefer to say "not to be racist..." and then say something completely unrelated to racism, like "bigger cars are just plain safer" so the listener then can wonder why anyone would find that racist.

We focus on race way too much in society.; 12/22/16, 5:40 AM
Leigh said...: @Gahrie and @Michael K, thanks for the link to the Berkley cool kids. There's no way to explain why voter ID is "racist" without sounding racist -- at least that I could possibly dream up. And I've asked the liberal people in my life to explain why ID = suppression. Invariably they are stumped.; 12/22/16, 9:33 PM
Anonymous said...: There must be some well thought out papers written by able people that have thought deeply about this. How to reduce or allow the amount of fraud to be measured without demanding an actual identity. One would be to dip a thumb in an inkwell. Another might be to use an iris scan, which could even be done at a distance as well as a full on iPhone picture of a face. Or even the welfare social security and other unified government distributions mechanisms handled through the equivalent of an ATM card. And then there's paying for each vote by depositing, say, $100 into their government distribution account, either one set up for government purposes, or an existing bank account named for such purposes. Perhaps a fine for not voting like in Australia. All these could be modeled and simulated with greater accuracy than AGW to see their impact on voter fraud as defined in all of its forms and input to the model. Including the simplest case, anonymous provisional voting. Where the voter need not identify they are voting, and then a box that they are voting anonymously save for leaving contact information. Even give the bill a good title. The no-more JFK-s fraud voting bill, in honor of Mayor Daley. And especially important is to find a mechanism for measuring quality of the vote with someone responsible for improving quality at every election. Though hopefully a better metric than today's of the number of candidates of the party of Stupid Bullies elected.; 12/23/16, 11:53 AM