Watch with me. Comment away. I'll join in if and when I've got something to say. Meanwhile, my son John Althouse Cohen will be live-blogging as he tends to do, which is very well, beyond what I'm likely to do. I'll probably take notes and then expand on things when I've got a transcript to quote.
UPDATE, 8:11: Kaine is plugging in memorized material, not listening to the question.
8:13: First interruptions comes from Kaine. And it's very disruptive.
8:16: Quijano interrupts Pence to say "We need to move on" then lets Kaine speak at length. Pence tries to speak again and Quijano immediately says "We need to move on" again! The moderator seems completely biased.
8:38: I can't believe the way Kaine is allowed to break in, to make a long speech with a series of attacks on Trump, and then Pence gets zero opportunity to respond, but Quijano insists on moving on to the next question. Kaine is interrupting so much, it's making me feel terrible. It feels so unfair.
AFTER THE DEBATE:
October 4, 2016
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222 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 222 of 222Dierdre Imus, in her only good line ever, called it tourette politics.
"I saw many #NeverTrump comment on twitter that Pence was a pleasant surprise and they took back previous comments on his choice as VP."
Were NeverTrumpers really bothered by the choice of Pence? The only criticism I saw of Pence were from the left, who saw him as too right wing.
I figure the VP contest is more a chance to take swipes at the respective tops of the tickets, as no one really figures either VP will succeed to the presidency mid-term (even though it happens frequently throughout our history--9 times out of 44 presidents, or more than 20% of our presidents got there this way--it hasn't happened since 1974 so people see it as a remote possibility). Where this helps Trump is it takes the news cycle off of his self destructive week and a half, and gives a chance to get back on message.
Until Sunday, at least.
@ Guildofcannonballs... Submitting to the use of Power to rule an Empire, because God appointed your group's hierarchy the Ruler of the Empire, is not a traditional American value. It is only tolerated. The point is Tail Gunner Joe wanted to take that power for himself by falsely accusing anyone in his way to be a Traitor, especially Harry Truman, just because he thought we are easy to fool.
Pence has delivered more criticism of Putin tonight than Trump has done in his whole life.
Better than the Dems whole-throated defense of him in 2012 when Romney mentioned that they were a foe.
Pence wants to force women to not murder unborn children, that will surely get Trump elected President.
I can see it, yes.
Trump is going to get a phone call from Putin, ordering him to shut his running mate up about Russia being an aggressor.
People like you mocked Romney for noting that 4 years ago. Given the Left's track record, why would anybody take anything you say seriously?
" I saw many #NeverTrump comment on twitter that Pence was a pleasant surprise and they took back previous comments on his choice as VP. To the extent that Pence could pull back some #NeverTrump then his obvious win may resonate a lot more than normal."
Pence gives #NeverTrumpers a way out. Some might rationalize voting for Trump after all by telling themselves they're voting for Pence, not Trump.
That's fine by me.
This is the first Presidential race that I can remember, where the Democratic Vice Presidential pick is so important. Does anyone think that Hillary is healthy enough to finish her first term, if she were to win?
@AllenS, I agree. A vote for Hillary Clinton is a vote in favor of hearing the phrase "President Kaine" sometime between now and 2020.
Kaine succeeding Clinton is certainly possible, but it's also very possible that Clinton has a chronic debilitating illness that will incapacitate her but not take her life that soon. In that case we can only speculate on who would actually be calling the shots.
Grand Vizier Huma Abedin.
Hillary's choice of Kaine as her VP is disheartening.
Why does Hillary surround herself with weasel men. Kaine spent the night shrilly smarmingly interrupting, smirking, declaring himself to be the first WOMAN President's right hand PERSON. In Hillaryland are men are required to put their manhood in a lockbox?
The entire Democrat party is corrupt. they can all go to hell. How's that for biblical?
CStanley asked.
"In that case we can only speculate on who would actually be calling the shots?"
Fritz said...
"Grand Vizier Huma Abedin."
The Muslim Brotherhood!
"Submitting to the use of Power to rule an Empire, because God appointed your group's hierarchy the Ruler of the Empire, is not a traditional American value"
True, but it's been a century or more since The Church held that position, like Protestants don't burn witches either anymore, also not a traditional American value.
Joe McCarthy was a mean drunk, he was an asshole, he was godfather to one of Bobby Kennedy's daughters and he was sloppy, those are all bad traits. But, he was right about the communist infiltration of government and American culture.
McCarthy did have many things wrong about Truman, Truman wasn't a communist, he was a Klan member.
The point is Tail Gunner Joe wanted to take that power for himself by falsely accusing anyone in his way to be a Traitor, especially Harry Truman, just because he thought we are easy to fool.
In his defense, he tried to investigate in closed sessions because some people might be innocent. The Democrats refused to allow it. But he did ask for closed sessions for the investigations regularly.
He was way more correct than people give him credit for, though. He was a drunk and didn't handle the constant ridicule well and it only got worse.
AllenS said...
This is the first Presidential race that I can remember, where the Democratic Vice Presidential pick is so important. Does anyone think that Hillary is healthy enough to finish her first term, if she were to win?
I have my doubts about her health, but even more doubts about anything that would end a presidency (see, e.g., Woodrow Wilson and Grover Cleveland).
You want an even more-curious prognostication? How about this: Hillary wins '16; the House and Senate remain Republican. And in '18, a furious nation in a midterm election like 2010 elects 60+ Republicans in the Senate. And in 2019, there is a second Clinton impeachment.
"You want an even more-curious prognostication? How about this: Hillary wins '16; the House and Senate remain Republican. And in '18, a furious nation in a midterm election like 2010 elects 60+ Republicans in the Senate. And in 2019, there is a second Clinton impeachment."
It would end like the first impeachment. There would be enough corrupt Vichy republicans in the senate to save Hillary and slag the republicans who actually believe in the rule of law and the betrayer would carry the day. #nevertrump would get another chance to help Hillary and keep the aristocracy in power.
"You want an even more-curious prognostication? How about this: Hillary wins '16; the House and Senate remain Republican. And in '18, a furious nation in a midterm election like 2010 elects 60+ Republicans in the Senate. And in 2019, there is a second Clinton impeachment."
I think the impeachment investigation could take place in 2017--provided the Judiciary Committee puts together enough evidence on the e-mail and Foundation scandals, and rolls it out in the media well enough, to get public opinion to back impeachment. Then by 2018, if a majority of the country is pro-removal, wavering Senators facing re-election that fall may be persuaded to back removal.
Of course, knowing the GOP they will bungle the whole thing, play into Clinton's hands of portraying it like a partisan witch hunt, and probably lose the impeachment vote in committee. Then in 2020 a new "mad as hell" GOP candidate will emerge, blowing away Paul Ryan, Mike Pence, Marco Rubio and Ted Cruz.
That candidate? Ann Coulter.
when are the republicans going to wake up an start demanding moderators who are not such obvious leftist shills?
"when are the republicans going to wake up an start demanding moderators who are not such obvious leftist shills?"
Probably around the same time they actually boycott debates that don't feature non-partisan moderators.
Reading through the Media Spin on this, it sounds like Pence came across much better than Kaine, who constantly interrupted and seemed rude, and that Pence just denied a lot of what Trump said and was never called on it. The takeaway is that Pence auditioned for 2020, but did little to support the idea of Trump as president.
I don't know that that matters, though--what could Pence or Kaine have done to make the tops of their tickets better? The rule with VPs is "first do no harm" and without a complete meltdown neither is likely to do that. As usual, we're back to the close race and the turnout that will determine it.
If Trump somehow activates enough voters that the polling models are missing (and to a greater degree than Hillary can do the same) he may pull off an upset. But barring that, it's looking like she'll come out on top.
Now, the GOP should hope to hold both houses of Congress if they hope to have any leverage for the next four years.
Achilles said...
It would end like the first impeachment. There would be enough corrupt Vichy republicans in the senate to save Hillary and slag the republicans who actually believe in the rule of law and the betrayer would carry the day. #nevertrump would get another chance to help Hillary and keep the aristocracy in power.
They couldn't impeach a bag of sour milk. Excuse me, convict.
Trump sure is a better judge of character than Clinton picking Pence in comparison to Kaine.
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