ADDED: Slate's Jeremy Stahl has this "WikiLeaks Is Fanning a Conspiracy Theory That Hillary Murdered a DNC Staffer":
There is of course absolutely zero evidence for this and Snopes has issued a comprehensive debunking of the premise itself (Rich is only 27 and has only worked at the DNC since 2014 so is unlikely to be in possession of information that might take down Clinton, he was on the phone with his girlfriend at the time of the shooting and she hasn’t reported any FBI meeting, there have been a string of robberies in the area, an FBI rendezvous at 4 a.m. only happens in movies, the whole thing is batshit crazy, etc.).Why does Stahl flaunt his non-neutrality? You can't say "absolutely zero evidence" (unless you don't know the meaning of the word evidence). Assange's statement is evidence. And the leaking and Rich's place of employment are evidence. Even if you think that's not much, it is something. Why fall back on statements like "the whole thing is batshit crazy." People complain about Trump's style of speaking, but it seems to me that an awful lot of people have moved to that level or worse.
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137 comments:
"Police have said they believe the motive was robbery, and that there is no evidence Rich's murder was connected to his work. But Rich's father has said the 4 a.m. murder, in which Rich was shot several times from behind, did not appear to be a robbery, as his son's wallet and watch were not taken."
Yeah, right. "Robbery".
Unknown reasons. Sure.
The Dumbocrats play for keeps, don't they?
I think that 3 DNC staffers have turned up dead in the last couple of months. And I know that one guy who has written a series of books on Clinton, someone named Thorn, I think, was found dead on August 1. Just a month or two ago, he mentioned that if he was found dead, it would be murder as he was in no way suicidal.
Hillary Clinton sure has a lot of dead enemies. People who "commit suicide" by shooting themselves in the back of the head.... twice. That kind of thing.
Yes, I fully believe she is a murderer. How can there really be any doubt? She orders people to die callously, without a care in the world. After all, she's Hillary. She's above the law. And she's a Democrat, so she could literally eat a baby live on TV and nothing would happen to her. Chuck would still defend her.
--Vance
Aborted. A calling card.
I should have invested in tinfoil hats this election year.
As stated in a previous post, I know Seth Rich's family. Seth was Jewish and maybe he was upset about how the DNC rigged the election against Bernie.
If it wasn't the Clintons, my theory is: the KGB murdered this young man to give the appearance of a DNC hit. Wikileaks is a mouthpiece for Russian intelligence.
I wonder do they still not reveal sources after the source is dead? I think for Woodward and Bernstein, they only revealed Mark Felt as Deep Throat after Felt died (or just before, when he gave them permission).
Still, it's worth investigating. It sounds pretty far fetched that this staffer was murdered due to a leak, but then it could be some unhinged DNC higher up in their rage decided to pay him back for his treachery. In any event, because this was D.C., we'll probably never know the truth. Their police force is such that it's just impressive they didn't write this one off as a suicide.
I've known the Rich family for 40 years. Great people. Terrible tragedy.
It could also have been the random D.C. gang murder. A kill for gang privileges or some stupid gang logic.
"Hit men don't shoot from behind, and they don't don't shoot multiple times."
Er, isn't that exactly how hit men shoot? Or is my sarcasm meter broken.
"As stated in a previous post, I know Seth Rich's family. Seth was Jewish and maybe he was upset about how the DNC rigged the election against Bernie."
Lots of DNC staffers may have been upset that the organization was leaning toward any candidate, particularly one like Clinton. I imagine a lot may have been motivated to leak.
"If it wasn't the Clintons, my theory is: the KGB murdered this young man to give the appearance of a DNC hit. Wikileaks is a mouthpiece for Russian intelligence."
Wouldn't they want to make it more obvious that it was the DNC? Or at least make it more obvious that he was the leaker, to produce motive?
"It could also have been the random D.C. gang murder. A kill for gang privileges or some stupid gang logic."
The city has been getting less safe. I have friends who live in that neighborhood and it's gotten very nice. But there's always the chance of marauding thugs deciding to find a target. Hopefully they catch whoever did it.
Why do we automatically assume the DNC would be behind a hit? The DNC was run by goofballs like Debbie Wasserman Schulz. Moreover, the DNC will always be immortal. It has no campaign for itself to lose this fall or at any other time.
Hillary Clinton, on the other hand, is still owed favors by a lot of people and countries in all sorts of places around the world, many of them quite skilled in being unsavory.
"Unknown's reasons," FIFY
It's top-notch counter intel work on WikiLeaks' part either way - if it's true it gets the story out there, if it's not true it gets the disinformation out there. Not bad!
Brando,
Not sure how they do that. Maybe that is what is coming. Then again they could just be stirring the drink by throwing Assange out there to assert it was a Clinton hit.
Who on earth floated the idea this DNC Staffer was murdered as part of a robbery? Shot from behind multiple times with nothing known to be missing? That's either someone who knows him or someone who has been hired to kill him, not much in between.
Assange is one weird looking bizarre guy but I think you can tell he's really pissed off someone killed someone working with Wikileaks and he wants to let the world know it happened without breaking his own rules. Best he can do I guess.
By the way, that interviewer actually grasped what he was hearing and asked relevant challenging questions in return to extract more information without quickly moving on. WOW. Can we get some of that?
It's a terrible crime, for sure. DC ought to pass some sensible gun control laws to stop this kind of thing.
So, what does the Rich family have to say about his death, Mr. Begley?
A robbery wherein the victim is shot in the back multiple times? Is this common?
I think Assange was just being recklessly ambiguous here. He said his sources and potential sources believe their lives could be at risk based on what happened to Seth Rich, i.e., the perception is out there that Rich might have been some sort of whistleblower. He's not saying Rich was his source, at least that's not how I interpreted his comments. Assange did not dispel the notion that Rich was a whistleblower and was murdered for it, but for all he knows Rich was a source for someone else.
It could be a gang initiation that hit a DNC nerve by chance. I'm sure the FBI is right on it... If it wasn't them that did it.
Assange might not even know who the wikileaks source is. How much "editing" can Assange actually do from inside the Ecuadorian embassy? He seems like more of a figurehead or symbol for wikileaks these days.
I thought gang initiations that involved murdering random people were a myth.
AllenS
Very little, if anything from Joel Rich. His dad said he was NOT robbed. He was talking to his girlfriend at about that time. Talk of him going to see "law enforcement." Parents met Hillary on Monday in Omaha.
Robbery is theft by force. If nothing was taken, by definition it is not robbery.
Sounds ever so much better than saying the Russians hacked the emails. Maybe the Russians are picking off DNC staffers one by one in order to cast suspicion onto Clinton. I'm wearing my heavy duty tin foil today.
Mark Felt's family staged a media show when it became very expensive and difficult for them to care for him due to Alzheimer's or age dementia. However, as someone commented, the shape he was in by then, Mark Felt would have cheerfully confessed to being Ghengis Khan.
And the WaPo immediately scooped up Woodward and Bernstein and held them in an undisclosed location for 3 days until they were reasonably sure no more shoes would drop.
Or so it was reported at the time.
BDNYC may be on to something here. To expand on it, was Rich a source for the Russians? Did the Russians kill him to keep him from confessing to the FBI?
"Why do we automatically assume the DNC would be behind a hit? The DNC was run by goofballs like Debbie Wasserman Schulz. Moreover, the DNC will always be immortal. It has no campaign for itself to lose this fall or at any other time."
Not saying it was a "hit"--right now we're just speculating--but if it were, I don't think it'd be a DNC staffer on orders from DNC higher ups (the risk of being implicated in a murder is far worse than any fallout from the leak itself). But maybe some lower or mid-level campaign person working with DNC found out about the leak, got unhinged, and in a fit of pique decided to punish the leaker.
If Debbie Wasserman Shultz was ordering a hit, you can be sure they'd get the wrong guy and screw it up.
I suspect Seth Rich's girlfriend knows plenty. Last person he talked with before his murder. This leak happened over a long period of time.
Assange is just lying by implication. I don't beleive Seth Rich was a source for Wikileaks. Assange is just trying to point away from the true source for the DNC e-mails, which is Russia.
What is in the DNC emails and Hillary's deleted emails is what's important. Hint:.Hillary is corrupt.
Wikileaks has offered $20,000 for information leading to the arrest of the murderer.
Seems like they are giving a clear signal here.
But maybe some lower or mid-level campaign person working with DNC found out about the leak, got unhinged, and in a fit of pique decided to punish the leaker.
Will no one rid me of this troublesome priest? --Henry II
Thomas Becket could not be reached for comment.
David Begley said...8/10/16, 10:44 AM
As stated in a previous post, I know Seth Rich's family. Seth was Jewish and maybe he was upset about how the DNC rigged the election against Bernie.
Something like that could be a motive - i.e., that he was going to hurt the Clinton campaign and he was nmurdered to stop him from blowing the whistle - but you need more than that. I mean, how much could he hurt the campaign? What other kind of secrets could he know? Even without realizing it. Close ties between someone and some terrorist backers? It sounds like there would be simpler ways to try to contain the story.
If this was an assassination - motive is unknown. Wikileaks can't be it. The DNC was hacked, remotely, by tywo different Russian intelligence agencies. The more incompetent one - the GRU - led to the discovery pf thw wholehing/
Seth was not a long-time DNC employee. He worked in NE politics. He was 27; dead six years after graduation from Creighton.
Disinformation from the douchebag Assange.
Mess with the Hildebeest and Debby Ding Dong Wasserman Schultz at your peril.
When asked about the death of Seth Rich, Vince Foster had no comment...
I'm curious as to why Assange has taken such a dislike to Clinton. Could it be he really sees her as she is? I've never like the guy, Assange. Nor do I like Snowden. Nor Glenn Greenwald.
But they perform a function. I hope Hillary gets exposed. Our media only do this to Trump so this may be the only way to show who Hillary really is.
Finkelman: "The DNC was hacked, remotely, by tywo different Russian intelligence agencies"
Wow, the Stepford is strong in this one. You really believe that don't you?
Brando said...
I wonder do they still not reveal sources after the source is dead?
--
The risk of retribution goes down significantly..
Question for tech people: Wouldn't Seth Rich's phone show where he had been the last two or three months?
"If Debbie Wasserman Shultz was ordering a hit, you can be sure they'd get the wrong guy and screw it up."
Its Hillary who has a history of associates dying conveniently and mysteriously, plus, she is the one hurt most by the DNC leaks.
Clayton Hennessey: Why do we automatically assume the DNC would be behind a hit? The DNC was run by goofballs like Debbie Wasserman Schulz.
The greatest gift a COINTEL outfit could ever wish for is to be thought incompetent.
The other day I thought to myself. Voting for Hilary is like voting for Nixon after Watergate has been exposed. Now I feel that is an insult to Tricky Dick. Where is Calvin Coolidge when you need him?
Where was Trump on On July 10, 2016?
David Begley,
Any sense what his parents will do in light of it being framed as a robbery?
I realize very soon and all..
seemingly seems . . .
I'm reminded of another DC murder that to my knowledge, has never been solved. It's the story of Lt. Quarles Harris, the guy who stole Obama's passport information. If you aren't familiar with the story, you should read up on it.
(...)
A key witness in a federal probe into passport information stolen from the State Department was fatally shot in front of a District church, the Metropolitan Police Department said yesterday.
Lt. Quarles Harris Jr., 24, who had been cooperating with a federal investigators, was found late Thursday night slumped dead inside a car, in front of the Judah House Praise Baptist Church in Northeast, said Cmdr. Michael Anzallo, head of the department’s Criminal Investigations Division.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2008/apr/19/key-witness-in-passport-fraud-case-fatally-shot/
No idea what the Rich family will do, but this was no random robbery. No Omaha native would be running around DC at 4 AM on a lark or without good reason. Report that he was to meet with the FBI.
Here's another tidbit on the Harris story:
(...)
WASHINGTON (CNN) — The CEO of a company whose employee is accused of improperly looking at the passport files of presidential candidates is a consultant to the Barack Obama campaign, a source said Saturday.
John O. Brennan, president and CEO of the Analysis Corp., advises the Illinois Democrat on foreign policy and intelligence issues, the source said.
Brennan briefed the media on behalf of the campaign this month.
The executive is a former senior CIA official and former interim director of the National Counterterrorism Center.
He contributed $2,300 to the Obama campaign in January… - See more at: http://pamelageller.com/2010/02/john-brennan-involved-in-obama-passport-breach.html/#sthash.MA8ebhsd.dpuf
Paul Snively The greatest gift a COINTEL outfit could ever wish for is to be thought incompetent.
Keyser Soze?
Maybe it was one of those "super-predators" Hillary talked about?
Maybe Hillary is one of them?
They are often the kinds of kids that are called 'super-predators,' " Clinton said in 1996, at the height of anxiety during her husband's administration about high rates of crime and violence. "No conscience, no empathy, we can talk about why they ended up that way, but first we have to bring them to heel."
Yep.
If you are going to stir up conspiracy theories it makes the most sense to say that Putin is killing these staffers to wreak havoc on the U.S. election.
Report that [Rich] was to meet with the FBI.
This fits a pattern of behavior that matches their orientation. It was reported that Finicum was to meet with the Sheriff before his abortion.
Assange is giving cover to his NSA sources.
Amazing that the rightosphere is connecting Clinton with this death, while having a meltdown over the outrage of Trump calling for the death of either Justices or Clinton herself after she is president. Self awareness not a strong suit of righties, I guess.
where is the proof that putin hacked the DNC?
no proof. there is speculation and conjecture.
I want proof please
a. Assange is indeed likely just a figurehead. And I wonder who is paying off the Ecuadorians. Somebody has to be.
b. He was making deliberate implications. Why? Who knows. But there IS a reason.
More coming TBD?
c. This is an extremely suspicious murder. There have been several others this year.
d. To say the least, we are not in any sense dealing with politics as usual. The stakes in this election are enormous. Some of the conspiracy-theorizing - a great deal of it, really - is well supported.
I said early on that this was going to be a terrible year.
Its going to get much worse. Everything seems to be approaching a crisis, on many fronts.
War drums are beating hard in the China seas btw.
Is the idea that HIllary could order a murder so farfetched? Let us examine a partial list of people who have died very conveniently for the Clintons; usually right before some exposure. A quaint habit known as “Arkancide.” It’s amazing how suicidal people get when they have dirt on the Clintons. And how they all seem to love to commit suicide by shooting themselves in the back of the head…. twice. Or more.
Sure, some of the names below likely were accidents. Certainly not all, or even most of them, however. These names include people like Commerce secretaries and former heads of the DNC, so surely a lowly staffer being murdered wouldn’t cause any sleep loss at all for bloody Clinton.
James McDougal - Clinton's convicted Whitewater partner died of an apparent heart attack, while in solitary confinement. He was a key witness in Ken Starr's investigation.
Ron Brown - Secretary of Commerce and former DNC Chairman. Reported to have died by impact in a plane crash. A pathologist close to the investigation reported that there was a hole in the top of Brown's skull resembling a gunshot wound. At the time of his death Brown was being investigated, and spoke publicly of his willingness to cut a deal with prosecutors.
Vince Foster - Former white House councelor, and colleague of Hillary Clinton at Little Rock's Rose law firm. Died of a gunshot wound to the head, ruled a suicide.
Mary Mahoney - A former White House intern was murdered July 1997 at a Starbucks Coffee Shop in Georgetown. The murder happened just as she was to go public with her story of sexual harassment in the White House.
C. Victor Raiser II - & - Montgomery Raiser: Major players in the Clinton fund raising organization died in a private plane crash in July 1992.
Paul Tulley - Democratic National Committee Political Director found dead in a hotel room in Little Rock, September 1992. Described by Clinton as a "Dear friend and trusted advisor".
Ed Willey - Clinton fund raiser, found dead November 1993 deep in the woods in Virginia of a gunshot wound to the head. Ruled a suicide. Ed Willey died on the same day his wife Kathleen Willey claimed Bill Clinton groped her in the oval office in the White House. Ed Willey was involved in several Clinton fund raising events.
Jerry Parks - Head of Clinton's gubernatorial security team in Little Rock. Gunned down in his car at a deserted intersection outside Little Rock. Park's son said his father was building a dossier on Clinton. He allegedly threatened to reveal this information. After he died the files were mysteriously removed from his house.
James Bunch - Died from a gunshot suicide. It was reported that he had a "Black Book" of people containing names of influential people who visited prostitutes in Texas and Arkansas.
James Wilson - Was found dead in May 1993 from an apparent hanging suicide. He was reported to have ties to Whitewater.
Kathy Ferguson - Ex-wife of Arkansas Trooper Danny Ferguson died in May 1994 was found dead in her living roon with a gunshot to her head. It was ruled a suicide even though there were several packed suitcases, as if she was going somewhere. Danny Ferguson was a co-defendant along with Bill Clinton in the Paula Jones lawsuit. Kathy Ferguson was a possible corroborating witness for Paula Jones.
Continued.... Vance
Bill Shelton - Arkansas state Trooper and fiancee of Kathy Ferguson. Critical of the suicide ruling of his fiancee, he was found dead in June, 1994 of a gunshot wound also ruled a suicide at the gravesite of his fiancee.
Gandy Baugh - Attorney for Clinton friend Dan Lassater died by jumping out a window of a tall building January, 1994. His client was a convicted drug distributor.
Florence Martin - Accountant - Sub-contractor for the CIA related to the Barry Seal Mena Airport drug smuggling case. Died of three gunshot wounds.
Suzanne Coleman - Reportedly had an affair with Clinton when he was Arkansas Attorney General. Died of a gunshot wound to the back of the head, ruled a suicide. Was pregnant at the time of her death.
Paula Grober - Clinton's speech interpreter for the deaf from 1978 until her death December 9, 1992. She died in a one car accident.
Danny Casolaro - Investigative reporter. Investigating Mena Airport and Arkansas Development Finance Authority. He slit his wrists, apparent suicide in the middle of his investigation.
Paul Wilcher - Attorney investigating corruption at Mena Airport with Casolaro and the 1980 "October Surprise" was found dead on a toilet June 22, 1993 in his Washington DC apartment. Had delivered a report to Janet Reno 3 weeks before his death.
Jon Parnell Walker - Whitewater investigator for Resolution Trust Corp. Jumped to his death from his Arlington, Virginia apartment balcony August 15,1993 Was investigating Morgan Guarantee scandal.
Barbara Wise - Commerce Department staffer. Worked closely with Ron Brown and John Huang. Cause of death unknown. Died November 29, 1996. Her bruised nude body was found locked in her office at the Department of Commerce.
Charles Meissner - Assistant Secretary of Commerce who gave John Huang special security clearance, died shortly thereafter in a small plane crash.
Dr. Stanley Heard - Chairman of the National Chiropractic Health Care Advisory Committee died with his attorney Steve Dickson in a small plane crash. Dr. Heard, in addition to serving on Clinton's advisory council personally treated Clinton's mother, stepfather and brother.
Barry Seal - Drug running pilot out of Mena Arkansas, Death was no accident.
Johnny Lawhorn Jr. - Mechanic, found a check made out to Clinton in the trunk of a car left in his repair shop. Died when his car hit a utility pole.
Stanley Huggins - Suicide. Investigated Madison Guarantee. His report was never released.
Hershell Friday - Attorney and Clinton fund raiser died March 1, 1994 when his plane exploded.
Kevin Ives & Don Henry - Known as "The boys on the track" case. Reports say the boys may have stumbled upon the Mena arkansas airport drug operation. Controversal case where initial report of death was due to falling asleep on railroad track. Later reports claim the 2 boys had been slain before being placed on the tracks. Many linked to the case died before their testimony could come before a Grand Jury.
So: Hillary is just a force for suicide and deaths from murder, all the time. Mighty unfortunate for her she has this past, because it sure doesn't look good.
Again, how crazy it is to think that this poor DNC guy was murdered, when you consider this list?
Vance
Ah, the old tired out list of people the Clintons killed, lol.
Andrew Pardue: Keyser Soze?
In reverse. If you're a crime lord, you want your competition to believe you're a totally amoral homicidal sociopath (and, as "The Usual Suspects" reminds us, it's easier to spread that belief if it happens to be true). If you're a counterintelligence outfit, you want your enemies to think you're the Keystone Kops... except you actually want to be brilliant. In other words, you want your enemies to underestimate you, and all that takes is giving up publicity and other sorts of recognition and ego strokes... and if you're in counterintelligence, you don't want publicity and recognition anyway. So the key thing is to get your ego out of it. Think Lieutenant Columbo at the organizational level. (BTW, I never could understand how suspects Columbo talked to didn't at least think "the man is a lieutenant in the LAPD's homicide division. He can't be that big an idiot.")
Note that a young-ish (younger people working with me in highly responsible positions) staffer could easily have access to the DNC mail servers. It seems that they were very lax with this sort of thing, otherwise they wouldn't have been putting such idiotic, embarrassing material in external emails. Anyone they were sending to could have been hacked too.
One with server access could have copied off the Exchange DB to removable media and no-one would have been the wiser.
Snopes is being disingenuous.
"Ah, the old tired out list of people the Clintons killed, lol."
Its not "tired". Its been barely touched, at least not by the "professional" media.
Its quite interesting. There is quite a pattern here.
I wonder if any such pattern can be ID'ed around the Bushes.
If there was one it would be made much of. There would have been portentuous 60 minutes episodes and a huge lot else.
This pattern re Clintons isn't. Not by the "mainstream" media anyway.
Note also that the DNC is a semi-amateurish "overt" side of the Democrat political operation.
The Clinton Kiill List has been worn out on rightie blog's over the years. No news outlet would touch it, except maybe to mock it because it's pure garbage coming out of the fever swamp of Conspiracy Land.
Yes, Unknown... that "Old tired list of people Clinton ordered killed." Yet... no rebuttal. Just "it's old, therefore we can ignore it!" It's the same thing you do with Roman Polanski.
Yet Mitt Romney's dog on the roof of his car and something from his high school was a vital national story, as I recall. Clinton murdering dozens of people? Old news, no need to bother with!
Thus the liberal excuse machine rolls on.
--Vance
Fake Unknown, here's my rebutal: Bullshit.
Assange basically said Rich was the DNC email source (or one of them - he probably had help.) He worked at the DNC and, like may Clinton enemies, he would up dead. It wasn't a robbery otherwise there would be evidence that something was taken (or maybe it was taken - maybe he had some key evidence on him like a thumb drive with more emails!). Regardless, there should be some evidence linking this guy to the emails or to WikiLeaks, but I doubt the FBI will be in any great hurry to look into that.
And, of course, "Unknown" is an element of the machine.
There are a great number of these evident on blogs of all sorts these days. Similar MO.
Which leads to the question of the organizational/operational details behind "Unknown".
Someone thinks this is worthwhile. I wonder.
"Think Lieutenant Columbo at the organizational level. (BTW, I never could understand how suspects Columbo talked to didn't at least think "the man is a lieutenant in the LAPD's homicide division. He can't be that big an idiot.")"
That was a great show. I loved how every murder in L.A. in the '70s was some rich person plotting it out meticulously to throw off the scent, then a scruffy detective comes in, rambles a lot about his wife and her complaints about his habits, and "one more thing" he asks, then boom, turned out the murderer put his pants on backwards after drowning his wife in her prize koi pond.
Prove it. You tell me how someone being shot 115 times is not a murder. You tell me that Kathleen's Willey's husband just so happened to kill himself while his wife was being raped by Bill Clinton. You prove that Mr. Thorn, who wrote 4 books on Clinton and less than two months ago said if he turned up dead it was murder because he was feeling great... only to turn up dead on August 1, less than two weeks ago. That's all coincidence? Prove it, you Hillary worshipper. It takes special sociopathy to excuse a murdering Clinton, yet you seem to pull it off. In fact, even if it were proven that Clinton ordered these people's deaths, you would still try to push her and tell people to vote for her, wouldn't you?
Because progressives do not care about voting for mass murderers. They just don't. They LIKE mass murderers. Again, if Hillary clinton conducted an Aztec sacrifice on live TV and ripped the still beating heart out of a screaming pregnant teenager, and then her unborn baby and ate the baby right there, you wouldn't so much as flinch in your support for her, would you Unknown?
--Vance.
Snopes on Seth Rich conspiracy
I find it interesting that Assange is able to continue to receive hair color treatments while locked up in the Ecuadorian Embassy.
Do they bring the colorist to him? He definitely isn't doing it himself-too perfect.
Unknown: Interested in your thoughts on why a robbery victim had his wallet, cell phone, and watch on him There were no witnesses, so being scared away doesn't seem viable.
Snopes on Clinton Body Bags conspiracy
Also, his clothes are fabulous. His face is glowing too-I sense spa treatments.
And, of course, Snopes is an element of the machine.
Such disingenuity does not happen by, well, happenstance.
As Lenin liked to say, and copied frequently by so many Soviets, "It is no accident".
Original Mike,
I'm not saying Rich was murdered in a robbery. I seriously doubt Clinton or the DNC had anything to do with it. If Rich leaked something to the Russians, and the Russians thought he might confess to the FBI I or whoever, well they might have a reason to want him dead. Who knows
I suppose I should support my statement about Progressives liking mass murderers. As evidence, I cite their love of Lenin and Mao (who's "Little Red Book" is and was in high demand in the Obama administration), the New York Times effusive praise of Stalin; their hymns of praise to Castro and Chavez. Who can forget Jane Fonda's love affair with communist Ho Chi Mihn? And how Ted Kennedy openly committed treason with Andropov, I believe it was.
Progressives love love love the ideas of Pol Pot ("Back to nature! Everyone work on the farms! Environmentally friendly!") And they absolutely, right now, love Iran and Palestine. Hamas versus Democrat Israel. Progressives support the Islamic death cult, every time--think Rachel Corrie.
--Vance
"I seriously doubt Clinton or the DNC had anything to do with it."
Why?
What there is "zero evidence for" is that the motive was robbery.
Original Mike asks "why?". Because there is zero evidence the Clintons or the DNC had anything to do with Rich's death. We know the Russians hacked the DNC, we know they are involving themselves in our election, we know there is a connection between Putin, Russian businessmen ( Russian Mafia) and Trump. It makes more sense to suspect them to be involved, if Rich was murdered in some espionage plot.
Would the Russians be so stupid to leave fingerprints at the scene of the crime?
It was Israel.
"We know the Russians hacked the DNC"
The hell we do. I don't believe the Russians would be so incompetent as to leave all the "evidence" they supposedly left in the hack.
The Russians are an interesting comparison.
There are a great number of murders, or fortuitous deaths, of Putins opponents or persons inconvenient to the Russian regime. Everyone seems content to attribute these to Putin and his organization. These have not been attributed directly to any associate of Putins, presumably because they have been so professionally carried out and the cutout system was very effective.
The presumed guilt of Putin and co. is based nearly wholly upon cui bono. This is actually reasonable, given a pattern.
What I wonder is why should the Clintons, the Democratic party, and the powers that be, that support them as instruments of power get the benefit of the doubt that Putin doesn't?
"What I wonder is why should the Clintons, the Democratic party, and the powers that be, that support them as instruments of power get the benefit of the doubt that Putin doesn't?"
Good question. Unknown doesn't extend that courtesy to Trump, so why Clinton?
Unknown said... [hush][hide comment]
The Clinton Kiill List has been worn out on rightie blog's over the years. No news outlet would touch it, except maybe to mock it because it's pure garbage coming out of the fever swamp of Conspiracy Land.
Yep, no news outlet would touch Lewinsky, or Edwards affair while presidential candidate either.
It is unlikely that Rich was the source, however, it is at least an even proposition that the leak came from within the DNC- that is what Occam's Razor will tell anyone with an IQ at least 90. Assange is likely just providing cover to the person responsible, as he should. However, he can likely prove it if he is telling the truth, however, it is my understanding that the anonymity offered survives the death of the leaker, so Assange will never tell you who it was.
"We know the Russians hacked the DNC, we know they are involving themselves in our election, we know there is a connection between Putin, Russian businessmen ( Russian Mafia) and Trump."
A) We don't KNOW that. We believe it, but are not sure.
B) They are not any more involved than before, since we don't KNOW A.
C. There are also connections between Putin, Russian businesses and Clinton.
For the record: I am unconvinced of the conspiracy. But, simply stating We know things we don't know while ignoring things we do know is not a good way of attacking people who believe the conspiracy.
Both candidates have long been in public life, wielding powers of sorts.
Would be interesting to see a grid comparing # of violent acts against or by their supporters..and "mysterious" deaths in their orbits.
But if there was cash or valuables in his wallet/pockets, calling this a robbery makes no sense and suggests something isn't portrayed accurately.
Unknown: "We know the Russians hacked the DNC, we know they are involving themselves in our election, we know there is a connection between Putin, Russian businessmen ( Russian Mafia) and Trump. It makes more sense to suspect them to be involved, if Rich was murdered in some espionage plot."
"We know" all that bullshit? The FBI can't tell if the Russians hacked Hillary. But "we know" they hacked the DNC. "We know" the Russians are "involved" in our election and it all ahas to do with a bromance between Russian businessmen, Trump and Putin.
We "know" that because the Clinton campaign, Unknown's (the duped one) indirect, if not direct, employer thinks it's a good deflection since "Russian businessmen" donated hundreds of thousands, or was it millions, of dollars to the Clinton Foundation and Sec of State Hillary signed off on a deal to transfer American uranium. Obama and Hillary meanwhile let Putin pounce gleefully around the Middle East and Europe enhancing his image at home in the face of their weakness. And if Putin hacked both Hillary and the DNC, think what he has on them.
Her campaign and the DNC do "know" that Hillary has to be Putin's first choice. Serious deflection was needed. But the murder of Mr. Rich was not - by the Russians anyway.
Poor Julian--I bet he can remember back when he had "absolute moral authority." That must be tough, having to give that up.
"But if there was cash or valuables in his wallet/pockets, calling this a robbery makes no sense and suggests something isn't portrayed accurately. "
-- He could have been carrying something valuable [in a laptop bag, backpack, etc.] that the attacker grabbed before splitting. Unlikely, but not impossible. Still suspicious, but not slam dunk suspicious.
Rich is only 27 and has only worked at the DNC since 2014 so is unlikely to be in possession of information that might take down Clinton,
This is what I mean about the single-minded partisanship of the Media making "journalism" worthless. What was Bradley/Chelsea Manning's rank, again? Oh, yeah, E-1, Private. If I said "No way Manning could leak a ton of damaging secret intelligence, Manning's only a private" you wouldn't take that seriously. Yet here's credential professional journalist Stahl using EXACTLY that argument and treating it like some kind of slam dunk against the idea that this low-level DNC staffer could have been the source of a serious breach/leak.
Stupid, stupid, stupid.
Deep Throat is getting deep-sixed by Democrats.
"Still suspicious, but not slam dunk suspicious."
Agreed. Still, I'd like to know the reason the police labeled this a robbery. Do they have anything other than they have no leads?
HoodlumDoodlum said...
Yet here's credential professional journalist Stahl using EXACTLY that argument and treating it like some kind of slam dunk against the idea that this low-level DNC staffer could have been the source of a serious breach/leak.
Stupid, stupid, stupid.
8/10/16, 3:12 PM
Well stupid yes but also not stupid. If you are such a partisan and such a true believer, you will find a way to make your "expectations" a reality. He (they) don't want to find any sort of connection / evidence so they won't. In many cases it is just that simple. They have their world view and all that they see and do is filtered through that lens.
As Glen (over at Insty) says, if you want real accountability and a real combative press, you MUST elect Republicans.
In addition to the current press corps being very tribal and very partisan, they are also pretty lazy. They are NOT going to do any digging or snooping into cracks and corners to find the truth. They will look just hard enough to confirm their pre-existing expectations and call it a day. Actual "reports" are long gone and all that are left are these liberal story tellers.
Matthew,
If it was a simple snatch and run without killing the guy, I'd agree.
But once you send someone to their death, I'd think you'd opt for maximum ROI.
"They have their world view and all that they see and do is filtered through that lens."
They have no world view. They have instructions. These are professionals doing as they are directed.
Lyle Smith said...
It could also have been the random D.C. gang murder.
Yeah. I heard it's something you have to do to prove your loyalty to Hillary.
"But once you send someone to their death, I'd think you'd opt for maximum ROI."
-- That's why I agree suspicious, but not enough to jump on the conspiracy train.
Oh, so SNOPES has debunked the theory! Well, I guess that puts the whole thing to rest. I lost any faith in Snopes when I read a couple of items of which I had some personal knowledge and they just had it wrong. They are no more reliable than the news media in general.
"In addition to the current press corps being very tribal and very partisan, they are also pretty lazy. They are NOT going to do any digging or snooping into cracks and corners to find the truth. "
Don't be daft. It is all deliberate. They will dig and snoop where they are told to dig and snoop.
I wonder if Comey feared for his life.
Yeah, and Cruz's father is Latino and was living in Miami around the same time as Oswald, and Oswald did kill Kennedy . . . .
"You can't say "absolutely zero evidence" (unless you don't know the meaning of the word evidence)."
"Absolutely zero evidence" is an industry term. Not the legal industry, the other one.
"Yeah, and Cruz's father is Latino and was living in Miami around the same time as Oswald, and Oswald did kill Kennedy "
Its unproven and probably false, but old Rafael Cruz wasn't just any "latino", he is Cuban and at the time was a Castro sympathizer and, for a while, was a pro-Castro activist.
This is admitted by both Rafael Cruz and his son. That is a well known part of the family story, heard in many of their speeches. Whether he was one still in 1963 is unknown as there is nothing much to go on other than the Cruz's statements. Cruz was living in Dallas and New Orleans at the time, not Miami.
Papa Cruz handed out pro-Castro flyers at the same organization that Lee Harvey Oswald volunteered at in Dallas at the same time. That's why the Cruz braintrust couldn't refute the picture in the National Enquirer showing the two (Papa Cruz and Lee) handing out flyers in the same frame. They were kind to Papa Cruz--the National Enquirer never asked him if that's why he skeedaddled to Canada after November 22, 1963.
If the Cruzers want to resolve this once and for all, they can petition the FBI to release all the information about Papa Cruz, that pro-Castro organization in Dallas, and Lee Harvey Oswald at that organization--and any surveillance photos that the FBI/CIA took during the relevant time. When did they stop sending Christmas cards to Marina? Were they aware that Marina was a KGB agent? Because there is zero possibility that she wasn't.
Maybe the Cruz family is related to 'Bebe' Rebozo.
"The question is about whether Hillary ordered hits on inconvenient DNC staffers? The only proper response is to bring up whether Ted Cruz killed JFK or rabble rabble!"
--Vance
Maybe it was David Brock - Hillary's Renfield. The guy who runs Media Matters for America for her. Have you seen him? He is batshit crazy. I would absolutely believe he would do this as revenge for her.
Maybe it was David Brock - Hillary's Renfield. The guy who runs Media Matters for America for her. Have you seen him? He is batshit crazy. I would absolutely believe he would do this as revenge for her.
Maybe he ran out of spiders.
Blogger David Begley said...
"Question for tech people: Wouldn't Seth Rich's phone show where he had been the last two or three months?"
If gps tracking for maps/apps was enabled they Google/Apple has a very precise map. Without gps the tower data will give you for the most part 120 degree bands a couple hundred feet wide that center on the in use tower. As long as the phone was on the tower has to change timing based on the phones distance from it so you get a general distance and direction updated a number of times per second depending on the network. Heavily populated areas will give you much tighter locations.
Short answer is yes they already know exactly where that phone went and when. It is easy for them to locate anyone like this.
http://www.businessinsider.com/dnc-seth-rich-wikileaks-politicize-2016-8?op=1
"The family of slain Democratic National Committee staffer Seth Rich is calling on conspiracy theorists to stop speculating about factually baseless connections between his death and a WikiLeaks hack.
"The family welcomes any and all information that could lead to the identification of the individuals responsible, and certainly welcomes contributions that could lead to new avenues of investigation," Bauman said.
He added:
"That said, some are attempting to politicize this horrible tragedy, and in their attempts to do so, are actually causing more harm than good and impeding on the ability for law enforcement to properly do their job. For the sake of finding Seth's killer, and for the sake of giving the family the space they need at this terrible time, they are asking for the public to refrain from pushing unproven and harmful theories about Seth's murder.""
unproven and harmful theories
OK, let's hear the proven and harmless theories.
That said, some are attempting to politicize this horrible tragedy, and in their attempts to do so, are actually causing more harm than good and impeding on the ability for law enforcement to properly do their job.
They are?
How could these conspiracy theorists possibly be impeding the DC police? The DC police are free to ignore what nutzo stuff comes in & concentrate on the more legitimate leads, are they not?
If this guy Bauman is trying to tamp down speculation, he's sure doing a bad job of it.
"The family of slain Democratic National Committee staffer Seth Rich is calling on conspiracy theorists to stop speculating about factually baseless connections between his death and a WikiLeaks hack."
Self preservation is the strongest human motivation.
Oh..I'm sure DC police have plenty of experience investigating "politicized" crimes.
And these "random thugs" might not flee so far if they get the idea Hil' might get the blame ;)
Rich is only 27 and has only worked at the DNC since 2014 so is unlikely to be in possession of information that might take down Clinton
All it would take is the right password. There are lots of 27 year old sysadmins. This is an opinion piece. Snopes has turned into another version of "Politifact," slipping in judgments where the facts are thin, and those judgments always go in one direction. The old Snopes would have left it at "We don't know."
The FBI should be in charge of the investigation.
Wait, JK LOL! The FBI would only get involved if it somehow might lead to a Republican getting arrested.
The CBC gets out the same kind of nonsense as Snopes on the hanging of the Iranian scientist who was mentioned in Hillary's emails:
The FBI has said there is no evidence that Clinton's emails were hacked due to her use of a private account and server during her tenure as secretary of state.
Tweeted back Clinton spokesman Nick Merrill:
"'Many people are saying'='I made this up."'
Except that the FBI also said that it is not possible to say that it wasn't hacked either. Except that Hillary said that there wasn't anything in those emails that was classified. If she doesn't have the judgement to know that information that could get a defector to the US killed should be classified, what kind of judgement does she have? But no, the whole CBC article just snarks on Donald.
More Snopes:
Hillary Clinton did not volunteer to be the defendant's lawyer, she did not laugh about the case's outcome, she did not assert that the complainant "made up the rape story," she did not claim she knew the defendant to be guilty, and she did not "free" the defendant.
A recording where Hillary laughs about the cases outcome, relates how she got the guy off with time served, and says that when a lie detector showed that her client was telling the truth, it "forever destroyed her faith in lie detectors"
All it would take is the right password.
Yes, and Wikileaks has already said they had a really stupid password.
All the DC insiders who love House of Cards laugh off as "conspiracy" something that looks very House of Cards.
debunking of the premise itself (Rich is only 27 and has only worked at the DNC since 2014 so is unlikely to be in possession of information that might take down Clinton
How old was Snowden? How long had he been at the NSA?
Control of access privileges at my firm is governed by GPOs and AD groups. There is a system interface for non technical users, but I can manually add any user, including myself, to any volume including the CEO's private folder, to read and copy all his documents. I don't have his email live, but I can read all his archives, and I could easily social-engineer my way into his current mails.
In a properly configured Windows enterprise, there should be an audit trail, which would be work to beat as I don't have that type of access, but in reality all I'd have to do is... Well, I shouldn't tell you. But it's quite doable.
Plus as we see these people are slobs and probably have everything open and their password is password1.
I wonder if "unknown" has killed anybody for the party. He/she is a true believer so I bet he/she did.
No, in fact I can copy his outlook.ost file from the local PC, which is a cache of his current mail file. Accurate to last refresh. No, his only safety is my honor.
Maybe so, Rusty, in the Mafia they call it "making your bones" but the Democrats probably call it something else.
I believe that in the SS, or maybe it was the Hitler Youth, when you joined the cadets you got a ceremonial knife, and a dog. Graduating ceremony, kill the dog with the knife.
Oh, not me, that other unknown, lol.
-Known Unknown
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