Althouse: "Whatever you do, don’t apologize. You never hear me apologize, do you? That’s what killed Jimmy the Greek way back."

June 30, 2016

"Whatever you do, don’t apologize. You never hear me apologize, do you? That’s what killed Jimmy the Greek way back."

"Remember? He was doing okay ’til he said he was sorry.... Hillary’s called me a ‘xenophobe’ a few times. How many people even know what the word means? Same with ‘nativist.'"

Said Donald Trump.

By the way, how many people know what Jimmy the Greek did way back? I remember that it was something racist-ish. Here, refresh your recollection:

35 comments:

eric said...: He is right. An apology doesn't make the story go away.

If you do something wrong, it's like falling into shark infested waters.

Which is bad. Now you need to look for a way to get out of those shark infested waters. Or tred water until something distracts the sharks.

When you apologize, it's like cutting yourself in shark infested waters. Sends them into a feeding frenzy.; 6/30/16, 11:32 AM
Brando said...: That's rather simplistic. If you go on TV and say "black people are clearly racially inferior, which is why we should put them in zoos" you're going to be just fine until you apologize for it? What matters is what you say and whether you can defend it reasonably enough.

It's true an apology isn't going to make a problem go away, but let's clarify that--an "un-pology" obviously won't, because the minute you say "I'm sorry you're so dumb you don't get what I really meant" no one is going to be placated, and of course even a true apology doesn't undo what you said.

Trump and Hillary are both people that don't apologize because both feel they are always in the right. I wouldn't like them better if they were always apologizing, but would probably like them better if they were right more often or at least showed they could learn from their mistakes.; 6/30/16, 11:41 AM
JAORE said...: "When you apologize, it's like cutting yourself in shark infested waters. Sends them into a feeding frenzy."

Depends on whether your blood type is D or R.; 6/30/16, 11:44 AM
Ann Althouse said...: @Brando

Ironically, Jimmy the Greek was saying that black people are superior and making a joke about how there'd be no jobs in sports for white people if black people got into management.; 6/30/16, 11:49 AM
Joaquin said...: Jimmy the Greek used to live on the 14th hole of my country club. Croasdaile C.C. in Durham NC; 6/30/16, 11:52 AM
Ann Althouse said...: "Trump and Hillary are both people that don't apologize because both feel they are always in the right."

I disagree. I think they don't apologize because they are above all fighting to win a political battle, and they avoid whatever they think will help their opponents. There doesn't need to be any belief at all about anything at this point. The foundation is that they must win, and they'll say what works. The only question therefore is whether apologies work. I think it's pretty obvious that if Trump starts apologizing, his opponents will have something every day that he's now supposed to apologize for and the apology will be used as a weapon -- that he did something wrong. His idea is to just keep barreling along and being tough about everything and claiming the privilege to continually change, tweaking as he goes, hoping you'll forget all the missteps.; 6/30/16, 11:54 AM
Clayton Hennesey said...: By definition, only people who have done wrong need to apologize.; 6/30/16, 12:02 PM
Wilbur said...: I've discussed the Greek on several occasions with black folks. The near-unanimous opinion view was that he was essentially telling the truth or what he genuinely believed was the truth, and that the political class and media could not let it pass unchallenged. And that he was stupid not to foresee this.; 6/30/16, 12:05 PM
exhelodrvr1 said...: "The black is a better athlete to begin with because he's been bred to be that way, because of his high thighs and big thighs that goes up into his back, and they can jump higher and run faster because of their bigger thighs and he's bred to be the better athlete because this goes back all the way to the Civil War when during the slave trade … the slave owner would breed his big black to his big woman so that he could have a big black kid "

That's basically correct. The more physically fit slaves were more likely to survive the voyage from Africa to the Americas, and more likely to survive the work conditions. And slave owners would obviously try to breed to make the most profitable slave offspring, which would tend to be the more physically fit slaves.; 6/30/16, 12:06 PM
Brando said...: "Ironically, Jimmy the Greek was saying that black people are superior and making a joke about how there'd be no jobs in sports for white people if black people got into management."

Yeah, I don't think Jimmy's comment is in the category of "bad enough that no apology would work"--he was also saying something that has a bit of truth to it (about how generations of slavery bred black Americans to better average physical prowess than whites). I don't think the apology mattered either way, though--the sports networks simply don't want a certain type of controversy (same reason they canned Limbaugh in the '00s).

"I disagree. I think they don't apologize because they are above all fighting to win a political battle, and they avoid whatever they think will help their opponents. There doesn't need to be any belief at all about anything at this point. The foundation is that they must win, and they'll say what works. The only question therefore is whether apologies work. I think it's pretty obvious that if Trump starts apologizing, his opponents will have something every day that he's now supposed to apologize for and the apology will be used as a weapon -- that he did something wrong. His idea is to just keep barreling along and being tough about everything and claiming the privilege to continually change, tweaking as he goes, hoping you'll forget all the missteps."

See, here's where I disagree with that--sometimes, when the wrong is pretty clear cut and there's no defense (e.g., the e-mail server) you only look insane when you refuse to acknowledge any wrongdoing--as if by not admitting wrong, you can will it to be right. And apologizing for one thing may make your opponents try to get you to apologize for another, but there's an obvious defense to that--"I apologize when I'm wrong, as you can see in that other case, and I'm not apologizing now because I'm not wrong here." Where if you never apologize, they will assume you have no concept of right or wrong and may even be unhinged from reality.; 6/30/16, 12:11 PM
traditionalguy said...: Missteps are aggressive barrages that will be be re-targeted better after the forward observers report their effect.

The key measure is getting fire on target. But ranging shots come first. Then the battery adjusts and fire for effect. But it never stops firing.

HST learned this as a commander of a Battery of Artillery in desperate action in WWI.; 6/30/16, 12:12 PM
Brando said...: "That's basically correct. The more physically fit slaves were more likely to survive the voyage from Africa to the Americas, and more likely to survive the work conditions. And slave owners would obviously try to breed to make the most profitable slave offspring, which would tend to be the more physically fit slaves. "

Bill Burr made a good point on that about how Americans created a physical master race.; 6/30/16, 12:12 PM
mockturtle said...: I heard nothing racist in his comments. Can anyone deny that black players dominate the NBA? Nothing to apologize for. As usual, it's the MSM's take on the comments that creates the controversy.; 6/30/16, 12:14 PM
Etienne said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 6/30/16, 12:22 PM
Bay Area Guy said...: I grew up with Jimmy the Greek, on the NFL Today show- Brent Musberger, Irv Cross, that Miss America, Phyllis George.

That's in the mid 70s.

Yeah, Jimmy the Greek got nailed for stumbling into awkward racial comments. Most folks know, today, that nothing good comes from articulating half-baked thoughts or theories on race, so it's better to remain mum.

Jimmy didn't get the memo.; 6/30/16, 12:25 PM
rhhardin said...: Public apologies are under threat and indicate you're no good at fixing the system.

Goffman on actual apologies

``A further illustration of the difference between ritual concerns and substantive ones comes from occasions of accident in which the carelessness of one individual is seen as causing injury or death to another. Here there may be no way at all to compensate the offended, and no punishment may be prescribed. All that the offend[er] can do is say he is sorry. And this expression itself may be relatively little open to gradation. The fact - at least in our society - is that a very limited set of ritual enactments are available for contrite offenders. Whether one runs over another's sentence, time, dog, or body, one is more or less reduced to saying some variant of ``I'm sorry.'' The variation in degree of anguish expressed by the apologizer seems a poor reflection of the variation in loss possible to the offended. In any case, while the original infraction may be quite substantive in its consequence, the remedial work, however vociferous, is in these cases still largely expressive. And there is a logic to this. After an offense has occurred, the job of the offender is to show that it was not a fair expression of his attitude, or, when it evidently was, to show that he has changed his attitude to the rule that was violated. In the latter case, his job is to show that whatever happened before, he now has a right relationship - a pious attitude - to the rule in question, and this is a matter of indicating a relationship, not compensating a loss''

_Relations in Public_ ``Remedial Interchanges'' p.117-118; 6/30/16, 12:30 PM
MadisonMan said...: No one has ever heard of Regression to the Mean.; 6/30/16, 12:30 PM
rhhardin said...: I don't think I've ever made a public apology. Yet I'm not popular!; 6/30/16, 12:32 PM
rhhardin said...: Klavan says the woman's fantasy in romantic comedies is getting the man to apologize. That's in some current film I haven't watched yet. Don Jon? Apparently Anne Hathaway is brought in to play an actress who is apologized to on screen, so the woman can watch it.

It's in the stack somewhere, to be watched.; 6/30/16, 12:35 PM
Anonymous said...: "....hoping you'll forget all the missteps."

The only ones who forget the missteps are the ones whose candidate made them.; 6/30/16, 12:35 PM
Titus said...: Howie Carr does hair plug ads in Boston....and his show is on an AM channel-seriously. Who fucking listens to AM radio?

They look like wax figures in that pic.

tits.; 6/30/16, 12:35 PM
rhhardin said...: The mail is late today. I'm waiting on some 14/16 AWG 3/8" terminals so I can attach the forty foot quarter wave vertical antenna awaiting re-erection in the backyard, promised as out for delivery.

I have to extend it another 7.5 inches to get it to resonate, according to the calculations. I added a couple feet, and will raise the base plate and radials to accommodate the difference. Further raised radials are always better.

Reverting to a hobby I had as a 12yo, a large external sign of the transceiver that replaces the coffee cup on my computer desk. If you've got 5 watts, you need a good antenna.; 6/30/16, 12:43 PM
M Jordan said...: Daore said: "When you apologize, it's like cutting yourself in shark infested waters. Sends them into a feeding frenzy."
Depends on whether your blood type is D or R."

Exquisite!; 6/30/16, 1:18 PM
mccullough said...: Jimmy the Greek upset the WASPs at CBS.; 6/30/16, 1:25 PM
Howard said...: Africans are superior athletes because they are a superior, more advanced race with pure blood not tainted by inferior and extinct huminoid neanderthal or denisovan.; 6/30/16, 1:50 PM
rehajm said...: The Thomasons taught the Clintons never to apologize. You'll never hear an apology from them unless they believe it helps them politically.; 6/30/16, 1:58 PM
Kevin said...: Apologizing forces your true believers to admit you did something wrong. Once some politicians recognized the value of plausible deniability, the idea of apologizing became a sucker's game.; 6/30/16, 2:03 PM
TreeJoe said...: One of the interesting things the white community has done in america has been to create a culture where you can not make observations, if you are perceived to be in the oppressor position, about either the weakness or strength of any other position.

A white person can not make comments about any weakness or strengths of anything in the black culture. It must be equal at all times.

A white male can not make comments about any weakness or strength of anything female. It must be equal at all times.

Now, you can put down your OWN group. That's fine. However, you can not build up your own group (assuming you are white). That's not acceptable either.

A few examples of things that will lead you into hot water today:

"Women make better nurturing figures for babies given their body's produce breastmilk, which carries benefits to both child and mother unavailable to either males or children fed formula."

"The black community spends an inordinate amount of time attempting to address external factors of both real and perceived racism, police/criminal justice inequality, and social welfare programs - but do not spend a balanced amount of energy trying to address intrinsic factors such as falling marriage rates, high school graduation rates, birth rates among unwed mothers, divorce rates, or the importance of monogamy to the society/group."

These things may not be said by either members of the perceived oppressor group NOR the perceived oppressed group.; 6/30/16, 2:35 PM
Char Char Binks, Esq. said...: Never apologize, mister, it's a sign of weakness.; 6/30/16, 3:39 PM
Chuck said...: Since there aren't enough hours in the news cycle to accommodate all of the things for which Donald Trump ought to apologize. So perhaps no apologies at all is the best course. It's certainly in keeping with who Trump is.; 6/30/16, 4:12 PM
mikee said...: I, for one, prefer Nixon's & Ford's Secretary of Agriculture Earl Butz, who was fired by Ford for joking about "colored peoples'" preference for "tight pussy, loose shoes and a warm place to shit" in a racially insensitive manner.

If you're gonna crash & burn, make it a loud crash and an inferno at the crash site.; 6/30/16, 4:36 PM
n.n said...: He's right. The rules change in a liberal or pro-choice society.

That said, Clinton is an anti-native/pro-immigrant, pro-choice/abortion [class] diversity advocate. Her and Obama's works can be witnessed throughout the Middle East, North Africa, Eurasia, Europe, and America.

Anyway, it's just semantic games, it's a left-wing strategy. The ball of yarns is unwinding. Next.; 6/30/16, 6:27 PM
Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...: That's so sad. He was not being derogatory at all.; 6/30/16, 7:52 PM
Michael K said...: "Jimmy the Greek was saying that black people are superior "

I saw the event live. He was being interviewed alone and made a clumsy comment, including the stuff about physical strength and speed running, but he was not describing an inferior group.

Now, if he had said blacks have a mean IQ of 85, he would also be telling the truth but he was never into anything but sports. Blacks have taken over pro-football the past 40 years. Everybody knows it. But you can't talk about it.

Except Cassius Clay who said, "I said I was the greatest, not the smartest>"; 6/30/16, 7:57 PM
Paul Ciotti said...: As the British Foreign Service used to say, "Never explain, never complain and never apologize."; 6/30/16, 8:58 PM