ADDED: "We need to respond to this attack on America as one united people, with force, purpose, and determination. But the current politically correct response cripples our ability to talk and to think and act clearly. We're not acting clearly. We're not talking clearly. We've got problems. If we don't get tough, and if we don't get tough, and fast, we're not going to have our country anymore. There will be nothing, absolutely nothing left."
AND: He won't say the killer's name. He also says "Afghan" as the name of the country, Afghanistan. And, oddly, he pronounced "Orlando," Or-lahn-do. [CORRECTION: Looking at the written script, I think he was saying "born an Afghan," not "born in Afghan," so it would not be a mistake. And he does also say "Orlando," with the normal pronunciation many times. His enunciation slips when he's reading a speech.]
ALSO: "We have a dysfunctional immigration system," he says after questioning why the man's father was allowed to immigrate.
PLUS: Here's the full text of the speech. I wanted to excerpt what he said about religion. Hillary, in her speech today, presented the terrorists' version of Islam as madness, mental disease, and as I said in my post above, this is disrespectful and unfair to the unfortunate people who suffer from mental illness, and it is also unrealistic about the nature of the human mind, which, even when healthy, thinks and believes all sorts of things that are not true and not nice. You're not going to somehow cure people of their bad ideas. Trump wants to exclude people who have the wrong ideas:
We cannot continue to allow thousands upon thousands of people to pour into our country, many of whom have the same thought process as this savage killer. Many of the principles of Radical Islam are incompatible with Western values and institutions. Radical Islam is anti-woman, anti-gay and anti-American. I refuse to allow America to become a place where gay people, Christian people, and Jewish people, are the targets of persecution and intimidation by Radical Islamic preachers of hate and violence....That's some strong support for gay people! It sounds as though Catholics might have trouble meeting his standard.
We have to screen applicants to know whether they are affiliated with, or support, radical groups and beliefs. We have to control the amount of future immigration into this country to prevent large pockets of radicalization from forming inside America....
[U]nder the Clinton plan, you’d be admitting hundreds of thousands of refugees from the Middle East with no system to vet them, or to prevent the radicalization of their children. The burden is on Hillary Clinton to tell us why she believes immigration from these dangerous countries should be increased without any effective system to screen who we are bringing in. The burden is on Hillary Clinton to tell us why we should admit anyone into our country who supports violence of any kind against gay and lesbian Americans....
Yes, there are many radicalized people already inside our country as a result of the poor policies of the past. But the whole point is that it will be much, much easier to deal with our current problem if we don’t keep on bringing in people who add to the problem.... This shooter in Orlando was the child of an immigrant father who supported one of the most repressive regimes on Earth. Why would we admit people who support violent hatred?
Hillary Clinton can never claim to be a friend of the gay community as long as she continues to support immigration policies that bring Islamic extremists to our country who suppress women, gays and anyone who doesn’t share their views.... Why does Hillary Clinton want to bring people here—in vast numbers—who reject our values?
Ask yourself, who is really the friend of women and the LGBT community, Donald Trump with his actions, or Hillary Clinton with her words? Clinton wants to allow Radical Islamic terrorists to pour into our country—they enslave women, and murder gays. I don’t want them in our country. Immigration is a privilege, and we should not let anyone into this country who doesn’t support our communities – all of our communities.
MORE: In the comments, I'm seeing some questioning of my last sentence there — "It sounds as though Catholics might have trouble meeting his standard." But I'm interpreting Trump's words, the actual text, as spoken. He said: "Immigration is a privilege, and we should not let anyone into this country who doesn’t support our communities – all of our communities." That is, to earn the privilege of immigration, you must support all of our communities, including the gay community. He's not limiting his exclusion to those who believe that gay people should be killed. He's saying you need to support gay people. I'm sure many religious Christians will say that he might not mean to include those of us with a love-the-sinner-hate-the-sin approach, but I don't hear that reservation in his words. I hope he is pressed on this question, and I would love to see Trump outdo Clinton in wholehearted acceptance and love for gay people and their freedom to openly love according to their heart's desire.
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134 comments:
can we have a thread for Hillary's speech that was two hours ago in the interest of cruel neutrality. She was actually good. {you may delete this message}
He needs to learn to read the teleprompter better. I didn't know there was skill involved in that but looks like there is.
"can we have a thread for Hillary's speech that was two hours ago in the interest of cruel neutrality."
I didn't see that was going to happen. DT did a better job of getting the message out, but, yes, I will look for it and blog it.
Trump is clear thinking. He may get plenty of LGBTQ votes today.
Hillary today was saying all things she was going to do to stop Islamic terrorism. This included more sanctions. Why didn't she do that at State? What has Obama being doing the past seven years?
This is a great speech by Trump. Really hitting the border control and immigration issues hard.
Hillary is so, so vague. Banal.
Or-lahn-do. A nod to the Hispanics
It was funny to hear Hillary Clinton- who is under FBI investigation- say people under investigation by the FBI shouldn't be able to buy a gun.
Or-LAN-do, with the nasal vowel is a bit crude, but that's what we're used to.
And The Donald said to himself, What can I do to help unite the nation? I know, I'll demand the resignation of the President of the United States. That'll be a good, bold start.
If we don't get tough, and if we don't get tough, and fast
I don't know why, but I'm always fascinated by Trump's unusual reiterative language constructions. He'll say things like something is "Bad. Really the worst. Not good." I can only assume it's purposeful.
He is getting better at the teleprompter. I just came in now and was watching and I couldn't tell if he was on the prompter or not.
Finally I decided it was both. He was on script for awhile, then he'd say his own comments, then go back on script.
I think that works best for him. Seems more natural.
The deliberate policy of the Obama Administration and its press myrmidons to silence any talk of Islamic is calculated to make room for the scapegoating of Christians, conservatives, and advocates of Constitutional rights and liberties. Doubt me? <a href="http://dailycaller.com/2016/06/12/aclu-lawyers-blames-christians-for-orlando-terror-attack/>Read it and weep.</a>
And The Donald said to himself, What can I do to help unite the nation? I know, I'll demand the resignation of the President of the United States. That'll be a good, bold start.
It's a great start.
It's also old rhetoric. Calling for impeachment would be divisive: the public is weary of anyone demanding impeachment, and sees it too much of political maneuvering over an issue of innocence of guilt. Bad move.
Calling for a resignation, on the other hand... most people might disagree that Obama needs to resign, but nobody has a stigma against private citizens calling on public officials to resign. Smart move!
Course, I'm less concerned with getting Obama out for the next half-year than getting Trump in for the following four. Choo-choo!
The list of deportations... just got 10 feet longer!
Trump hits Hillary hard. Says she is no friend of the LGBTQ community as long as she has supports Syrian immigration. Brilliant.
> Hillary's speech that was two hours ago in the interest of cruel neutrality
Oh my, that's gonna hurt. Cruel indeed.
Another great point. More immigration only adds to the problem.
Did he just say "bigly"?
Hits Hillary hard for her failures in Syria and Libya.
Probably used the phrase "radical Islamic terrorism" ten times.
Finally I decided it was both. He was on script for awhile, then he'd say his own comments, then go back on script.
When I had to give remarks, I did best when I'd have note cards as an outline to remind me what my next point was. Wouldn't surprise me if Trump had important quotes and bullet points on his teleprompter instead of a full blown speech.
"Hillary today was saying all things she was going to do to stop Islamic terrorism. This included more sanctions."
Sanctions are going to stop terrorism? She's just not serious about this.
His teleprompter reading is so much better than Obama's. He loses some, but not all the piss and vinegar.
These were very strong remarks from our next president.
Woah, woah, woah.
Weren't we told during Paris that one of the fundamental causes of Islamic terrorism is lack of job opportunities for Muslims in Europe?
And now we're going to impose Sanctions!!!!!!
Hillary, undone by her own talking points.
I want to see a transcript of Hillary's speech today. But vague and lots of contradictions. Her essential premise was to vote for her in order to fix all the stuff Obama (and Hillary) didn't do the last seven years. The approach of the Dems has failed.
"How to Use a Teleprompter".
Interesting video, and there are lots like that. Few people know what it's like to speak with those glass plates telling you what to say.
We need a video made by a political junkie from the perspective of the speaker behind a teleprompter. Show what it's like with a full speech, what's the pace of the words, what controls do you have (as the speaker), what's coming in your ear from your advisors, when/how you can go off-script, etc.
Ignorance is not bliss. It is deadly. Trump finally has accused Obama of intentionally spreading ignorance among our forces by forbidding intelligence gathering on Muslims and throwing out the intelligence already gathered by others, such as NYPD's Anti Terrorist Squad.
He thereby positioned Hillary where she has to either agree with Trump's statement or to defend Obama, but she has to defend Obama or be indicted.
Original Mike
And Hillary wants to work with good Muslim nations but also wants to stop Saudi Arabia from teaching and exporting terror. She should have done that at State. Her speech was a complete mess.
@Bob Ellison, I think the key is to move your eyes from one to the other seamlessly and that needs skill in taking a mental impression of the reference point you left on one and locating the same on the other. Kind of like you are reading something on screen and you look away but come back to the screen to the same point where you left off. But here the text is scrolling. I guess a younger Obama with perhaps better eye sight could master it well. Even he had the tennis head effect.
Trump said over and over that this is our country to defend or to lose. That is the heart of Jacksonian Democracy. It fights to keep our unique land of the free from conquest by other military powers.
That is so simple the common man and woman understands it. Legal immigrants understand it. That is why they came here.
Hillary did not defend Obama in her speech as far as I can tell. In fact she praised Bush for what he did soon after 9/11.
My simple, humble solutions:
1) Stop immigration, from everywhere to start, but especially from Africa and most of West Asia.
2) Stop intervening and trying to build modern liberal societies on the tops of backwards shit holes like Afghanistan and Libya.
3) Arm yourself and be prepared to use your weapon to defend yourself, your friends, or innocent bystanders from attack.
That is the heart of Jacksonian Democracy. It fights to keep our unique land of the free from conquest by other military powers.
Truism alert.
"That is the heart of Jeffersonian Democracy. It fights to keep our unique land of the free from conquest by other military powers."
"That is the heart of Madisonian Democracy. It fights to keep our unique land of the free from conquest by other military powers."
"That is the heart of Confederate Democracy. It fights to keep our unique land of the free from conquest by other abolitionist powers."
"That is the heart of Rooseveltian Democracy. It fights to keep our unique land of the free from conquest by fascist powers."
Ah, I love it when he says "bigley", which he does in almost every speech. His teleprompter reading was so bigley impressive, sooooo much better than Obama. Maybe Obama should resign in shame.
I'm quite sure Trump's speech really impressed the gays and they will now vote for him bigley.
You misspelled Bigly. It's Bigly. Dummey.
Inga/Amanda, if you want some cringe-worthy statements go listen to Hillary's speech.
" J. Farmer said...
My simple, humble solutions:
1) Stop immigration, from everywhere to start, but especially from Africa and most of West Asia.
2) Stop intervening and trying to build modern liberal societies on the tops of backwards shit holes like Afghanistan and Libya.
3) Arm yourself and be prepared to use your weapon to defend yourself, your friends, or innocent bystanders from attack."
Yes. It is infuriating that problems with simple solutions are drug out at the cost of so many innocent lives, just because it serves the purposes of some shitty politician or their rent-seekers. Our Establishment is truly loathsome.
Random thoughts.
Or LAN do (as compared to Or land o)is the hispanic and original pronunciation.
The best way to give a speech is to have cue cards, or a power point presentation or a teleprompter to PROMPT you to remember the key points that you want to make. This keeps you from wandering around, losing your train of thought and makes for a better presentation. I often used the first two methods and if there were particular mathematical figures or facts that needed to be presented I would read those off of the cue card.
Trump seems to be doing his telePROMPTER reading correctly. Using it as a prompting device and not reading the speech word for word as does Obama. As long as you don't read verbatim, use some extemporaneous interjections and don't look like you are watching a tennis match, a telePROMPTER can be a pretty nice tool.
Trump did well. He appealed to our sense of national pride, fairness, unity, safety and that we are ALL Americans. The America First theme instead of excusing the killer or making excuses for Islam. Stressing our dysfunction and unsafe immigration system. He will pick up a lot of the LGBT votes as well as, I believe, Hispanic voters too.
Hillary did not defend Obama in her speech as far as I can tell. In fact she praised Bush for what he did soon after 9/11.
To be more precise, she praised him for going to a mosque a few days after 9-11 to proclaim that Islam was a peaceful religion and that 9-11 was an aberration conducted by people who weren't true Muslims.
People are really getting tired of hearing that.
I caught a portion of her speech during lunch. Let me summarize it:
Do more of what hasn't been working so far, Donald Trump is bad because even though most Muslims are peaceful, wonderful, almost angelic human beings even more of them are going to kill more of us because he makes them feel bad, so unity, and gun control of course.
That's how Trump spells it. Bigley.
it's a very cromulent word.
I'm quite sure Trump's speech really impressed the gays and they will now vote for him bigley.
Yeah, actually it probably will. Trump isn't an evangelical. They have no reason to dislike him that I know of and plenty of reason to be suspicious of increased Muslim immigration.
Trumps running on national security and jobs. The MSM can whistle past the graveyard all it wants, but Hillary is vulnerable on both those issues.
Hell, she even said radical Islam in her speech. Wasn't that racist or something just a couple of days ago?
I really want to know how Trump plans on defeating ISIS at the same time he is vilifying and denying entry to the very same people he needs the cooperation of to defeat ISIS.
The man, and anyone who thinks his unhinged ranting was effective at getting the message out, is an idiot.
Oh and as for why we let Mateen's father into the country, you have forgotten your history. Mateen was born in '86 or '87. I assume his father came as a refugee from the Afghan War where we were the ones arming and supporting the very same fundamentalist Muslims (including Bin Laden) who we are know having such problems with. It would have been the height of hypocrisy to say that you are good enough to be cannon fodder in our proxy war with the Soviets but don't you dare enter our country.
Trumps running on national security and jobs.
Trump is running on lies, bluster and insults. That is all he has.
Yeah, no doubt gay folks will become Trumpsters now! I'm sure they will not pay any attention to what he has said about anything else these past few months.
And I'm sure his teleprompter reading really really impressed them ...bigley.
Oh and as for why we let Mateen's father into the country, you have forgotten your history. Mateen was born in '86 or '87. I assume his father came as a refugee from the Afghan War where we were the ones arming and supporting the very same fundamentalist Muslims (including Bin Laden) who we are know having such problems with. It would have been the height of hypocrisy to say that you are good enough to be cannon fodder in our proxy war with the Soviets but don't you dare enter our country.
This is actually true.
Trump is running on lies, bluster and insults. That is all he has.
Whatevs.
He has to convince a majority of people that he would be a better president than Hillary Clinton. Really doesn't matter if he uses lies, bluster, and insults or is the reincarnation of Abe Lincoln crossed with George Washington and Theodore Roosevelt.
It's hard to argue with a lot of what he is saying.
Certainly we can't go on just pretending that this isn't happening. It is happening. Not only is it happening, it's escalating. And the more this is in the news, the more copycats are going to be "inspired" to send themselves to hell (if you share my beliefs) by racking up the body count.
France is living under a state of martial law with a suspension of many civil rights. They have no realistic prospect of terminating that. Brussels has troops and military-style units in the streets (with faces covered, due to fears of attacks on their family members). If we do not control this threat, that's where we are headed. So I am not in favor of just sitting around building up the threat.
The police are already in the streets with military rifles in this country protecting some obvious gay-related targets. Churches now often have armed guards. Synagogues and jewish centers have armed guards. How long can we endure this?
It is time to protect the innocents, and the Jews and the last-hit gays are sure enough the innocents. Their rights have to come first.
This is not the first Muslim attack on gay targets in the US. It's not just Muslims (Eric Rudolph attacked one, for example), but obviously that is a special concern now:
http://www.towleroad.com/2016/06/gay-bar-attacks/
The best speech is the short one that you edited on the train to the battleground, thinking and saying in the speech that nobody would record the speech, and having the words and thoughts in the speech cemented so firmly that nothing could remove them from your mind.
I couldn't make it past the multiple podium strolls by the surrogates..
He most certainly convinced the gays, no doubt about it. It was uuuuuuge.
Yeah, no doubt gay folks will become Trumpsters now! I'm sure they will not pay any attention to what he has said about anything else these past few months.
What has he said that would upset them? I am unaware of any anti-gay remarks. He has said he wants to enforce our immigration laws, renegotiate free trade agreements, restrict Muslim immigration, and kill Muslim terrorists.
Are gays required to be for free-trade, unrestricted immigration, and submit to Muslims killing them? Is there an oath you have to take before they issue you your gay card?
Certainly we can't go on just pretending that this isn't happening.
Now, now - don't sell the other side short.
Are gays big Rosie O'Donnell fans? Has Trump insulted Judy Garland or Liberace? Inquiring minds want to know.
Ron,
Well everyone knows gay people are a monolithic group who have no interests beyond their own issues, bigotry to other minority groups don't bother them at all.
He appealed to our sense of national pride, fairness, unity, safety and that we are ALL Americans.
Except of course the Muslims.
Just in case anyone was unaware, most of the victims of the massacre were Hispanic.
Are the gays the swing vote?
Milo has a quote on Twitter. "The scariest words a gay person will ever hear is Allhu Akbar."
That reminded me the ritual slaughter of goats and infidel prisoners is the Blood Atonement offered for Muslims who live under an iron law of misery and death. There is no atonement by Jesus death permitted.
They come here to get more living victims to sacrifice to allah. And Obama has always been on their side in this.
@Miriam
And everyone knows gays are all sweetness and light who only think about others and never about their own interests. Every. Single. One.
Just in case anyone was unaware, most of the victims of the massacre were Hispanic.
Yeah, I know. It was Latin night. So now a lot of legal immigrants have good reason to vote for Trump now.
I would be curious as to whom gays find more threatening, Donald Trump, or Luis Burbano, the Pulse employee who held the door shut behind him after escaping while, according to him, he could "hear people pounding". A number of YouTube videos of his account are available. Google for the one currently not swamped with viewers.
Yea, sure Ron. I'm sure you're right.
These events and this speech have really ruffled the feathers of the trolls. Goodly.
"Oh and as for why we let Mateen's father into the country, you have forgotten your history. Mateen was born in '86 or '87. I assume his father came as a refugee from the Afghan War where we were the ones arming and supporting the very same fundamentalist Muslims (including Bin Laden) who we are know having such problems with. It would have been the height of hypocrisy to say that you are good enough to be cannon fodder in our proxy war with the Soviets but don't you dare enter our country.
This is actually true."
Actually, no it isn't. The Soviets invaded Afghanistan. The Afghanis resisted. We provided aid to that resistance. That hardly makes it our "proxy war". The Afghans were going to wage it, with or without our help. We had no obligation whatever to let a barbaric fucknut like Mateen Sr. into this country.
Are the gays the swing vote?
Nope. Perhaps 2 to 4% of the total population. But a lot of people on the left need them to vote the way they think they should for the moral validation they provide.
There appears to be a certain frisson felt if you vote the way your gay best bud does.
Oh Good. He is not only calling for a ban on immigration from the Middle East but Ireland as well.
He really doesn't know what the hell he is talking about.
Actually, no it isn't. The Soviets invaded Afghanistan. The Afghanis resisted. We provided aid to that resistance. That hardly makes it our "proxy war".
Yeah, it kind of does. I'm not saying that we shouldn't have provided the assistance, but we did. It helped bring down the USSR (no matter what the revisionists say) and that is a good thing. But it did cause some unexpected consequences. We are living with those consequences to this day. And whatever we do to deal with those consequences will have unforeseen consequences of their own, no matter what we do.
...he would block immigrants coming from any “areas of the world” with a “history of terrorism” against not only the US, but also “our allies.”
good luck wit dat...
"He will pick up a lot of the LGBT votes as well as, I believe, Hispanic voters too."
Doubtful. Most Gays are hardcore Leftists who believe the religious right is their undying enemy. Most will regard the dead Orlando Gays as a price that has to be paid for "diversity"
After all, you can't make an omelette without breaking a few eggs.
Doubtful. Most Gays are hardcore Leftists who believe the religious right is their undying enemy. Most will regard the dead Orlando Gays as a price that has to be paid for "diversity"
But THE DONALD isn't of the religious right. He has picked up a couple of endorsements from religious figures, but wasn't it Samuel Johnson that said something about knowing you are going to be executed in a fortnight helping to focus the mind?
Phoenix LGBT group has endorsed Trump And on many other blogs there are people who are gay who have decided that the Liberals/Hillary care more about not offending Muslims than they do about a bunch of dead gay people.
There are many Gay Conservatives and while many in that community trend more liberal, most will consider their own safety and which side will be more concerned about protecting them, stopping radical Islamic movements by tightening up the immigration procedures and other measures.
The LGBT community is not a monolithic block. Here is another gay conservative view
there is some truth in that, the afghan task force leader, milt bearden didn't realize hamid gul, the head of isi, was the godfather of the taliban, charlie wilson though hekmatyar was just dandy, another fellow, raisul sayyaf, who brought in much of the afghan arabs that would become al queda, was a recent presidential candidate, supported by karzai,
Miriam, it's big league, you silly donut.
"Good luck with that."
You haven't seen anything yet, lefty. Better take some selfies to remember the high water mark of your idiotic ideology.
You're done.
It's not "bigly." He's saying "big league."
Which, funnily enough, is what "bigly" would mean if it were used as a word. "Largely" is a word, but somehow "smally" and "little-y" are not words. "Widely" and "narrowly" are words. What are the rules about making adverbs out of adjectives? Why isn't it always allowed?
Deliciously, nastily, crudely, bluntly, triumphantly, bitterly, harshly, blandly...
Nah, he was saying bigley.
Bigly, Bigley, it's uuuuuge.
Freder Frederson said...
Oh and as for why we let Mateen's father into the country, you have forgotten your history. Mateen was born in '86 or '87. I assume his father came as a refugee from the Afghan War where we were the ones arming and supporting the very same fundamentalist Muslims (including Bin Laden) who we are know having such problems with.
Not forgotten, suppressed. Too many complex thoughts otherwise.
Donald Trump seems to connect President Obama to Orlando shooting
It is his watch.
I am quite tickled by Inga/Amanda/Miriam's assumption that I, a gay man, am actually a sheep-like member of the "LGBTQXWZ" leftwing mafia, and that I of course march in lock step with them because, after all, as a gay person I cannot possibly think for myself. My gayness keeps me so focused on other guys' goodies that I am too exhausted and spent to be an active citizen engaged with my entire American community.
The Democrat left: running plantations since before the beginning.
Blogger machine said...
...he would block immigrants coming from any “areas of the world” with a “history of terrorism” against not only the US, but also “our allies.”
good luck wit dat...
6/13/16, 4:10 PM
What a silly idea! Why would anybody want to block Muslims coming here from France or Belgium or Germany? The Muslim communities there are totes peaceful, because those wise Europeans won't let you buy AR 15s.
It's funny how leftists who are sure they are so much smarter than Trump really aren't.
Oooooo yes, there is "something" going on alright. It's in Trump's head, just like the birtherism and the antivaxxer stuff, just more of his rantings. This is the guy you want to be President, lol.
But Marty, haven't you heard? Amanda/Miriam has appointed herself THE voice of the American Gay Community and knows just how they should vote and think about everything. Why, she quoted a Facebook friend yesterday so there! And I'm sure she's, like, real tight with her hair stylist and he just can't bear Trump. That hair! Sad! So Miriam thinks you should just shut up!
My dear Marty, you are in the great minority within the gay community. On the whole I doubt that Trump's speech impressed more than a few gay people into voting for him. I was the first to say gay folks aren't a monolithic group, upthread, but as I said, you are a
minority within the gay community. Each to their own, I guess.
Amanda / Miriam must have forgotten that Hillary! started the Birther nonsense. Remember her -- the one currently subject to an FBI criminal investigation? And you want her to be president? Lulz
Blogger Miriam said...
My dear Marty, you are in the great minority within the gay community.
If the Muslims keep it up, he won't be.
"Each year, the United States permanently admits more than 100,000 immigrants from the Middle East, and many more from Muslim countries outside the Middle East. Our government has been admitting ever-growing numbers, year after year, without any effective plan for our security."
Exactly. When did everyone develop this weird idea that the USA should let in millions of immigrants every year from all over the world - without any screening or desire exclude undesirables or who don't believe in our ideals?
I don't remember anyone supporting open borders until about 15 years ago. No one ever talked about immigration in the 70s and early to mid 80s. Now, its like some totem that we're all supposed to bow down and worship or we're "Bigots". Crazy.
When you get a hole in the boat, the first thing you do is plug the leak.
Instead, people want to ignore the constant inflow of water and talk about whether to buy a new boat next year or manage the waterlogged boat.
Marty,
There is more diversity of thought in most communities than lefties are willing to admit. Not all New Yorkers vote Democrat and there is a substantial conservative and libertarian community in California. Not all gays are modern progressives, as you pointed out.
I have known many gay men in my life. (My first wife was a professional modern ballet dancer. My girlfriend is an artist and creative marketer. I am a psychologist.). My sense is that many gay men talk like liberals because liberals are more likely to publicly embrace them than conservatives. Conservatives that I know have no issues with homosexuality, but they don't celebrate it to show their superior virtue.
My conservative Republican family (I am a libertarian) has never voted for a Democrat and has always supported gay rights. Yes. I know that it contradicts the media narrative.
The narrative is the enemy open inquiry and thought.
Jeez Althouse! Couldn't resist the gratuitous slap against the Catholics! Shame on you.
Clinton wants to allow Radical Islamic terrorists to pour into our country—they enslave women, and murder gays. I don’t want them in our country.
No, she does not. That is hyperbole. Can Trump tell a good Muslim from a bad Muslim? That is the dilemma. Because there are millions who are of the mindset live and let live. He should limit his ideas to maybe limiting immigration from certain countries and having a moratorium to get control of the situation.
Inga/Amanda/Miriam said:
My dear Marty, you are in the great minority within the gay community.
Am curious how you come by this particular assertion. As someone who's actually been gay for over half a century, and involved in government and politics throughout it all (in California, no less!), I cannot buy it.
Since the Left is relentlessly loud, shrill, nasty, and arrogant (and of course the gay Left adds a special love of bling), what motivation does a moderate or conservative gay person have to engage and be counted?
But, again, you may have some special expertise of which I am unaware.
Otherwise, consider the possibility that you're just making up shit that makes you feel good.
It sounds as though Catholics might have trouble meeting his standard.
Yeah...all those Catholic priests preaching that gays should be killed out of compassion, and all of those Catholic youths killing gays all over the world are a major problem......
I'm thinking G4S may be in for some questioning.
@pm317:
"Can Trump tell a good Muslim from a bad Muslim? That is the dilemma."
True. Hence my much simpler, workable solution: stop immigration, period.
That's some strong support for gay people! It sounds as though Catholics might have trouble meeting his standard.
Go fuck yourself, Professor.
"Why does Hillary Clinton want to bring people here—in vast numbers—who reject our values?"
And what are "our" values? If you're a lefty, one of those values is a basic dislike of your own country. Hillary and president Obama are pursing their own values, strongly.
workable solution: stop immigration, period.
I can get on board with stopping immigration from Saudi Arabia and other countries that practice Wahabism (spelling?) and encourage and fund terrorism. There are benign forms of Islam that don't teach the violence that the Saudis with their money and religion mix perpetrate on world communities.
I do find it humorous that Miriam the other day was telling us about being married ten years, and then her need of a late term abortion because an ultrasound detected birth defects, and now is an expert on gays. Wonder how many more fables she will regale us with to protect and promote Hillary over the next five months. Except she really doesn't promote Hillary that much, but instead attacks Trump.
What was interesting to me is that the paid Hillary bloggers and the like are apparently instructed to get a conversation going among themselves. I think we may have seen some of that here today. Not ARM and Freder, of course, because they have been some of our resident lefties for years now, though Trump seems to have unhinged Freder a bit. Used to be one of the more thoughtful limbs here, but not recently.
"rcocean said...
Doubtful. Most Gays are hardcore Leftists who believe the religious right is their undying enemy. Most will regard the dead Orlando Gays as a price that has to be paid for "diversity"
So we can expect another quilt ASAP, right?
AA "That's some strong support for gay people! It sounds as though Catholics might have trouble meeting his standard."
Just because the Catholic Church opposes same sex marriage it doesn't mean the Catholic Church or Catholics hate gays.
Really wrongheaded.
https://pjmedia.com/trending/2016/06/12/gay-activist-after-orlando-trump-voter/
This gay activist realized what Hillary needs him for. She needs him to be a victim.
And note who he is afraid of if he says he supports trump.
Althouse wrote: AND: He also says "Afghan" as the name of the country, Afghanistan. And, oddly, he pronounced "Orlando," Or-lahn-do.
(No time to read this thread to see if others pointed out the following)
Major point: To my ear he said "was born an Afghan" i.e., he was born an Afghani. This may be literally true as that nation may well have granted him citizenship. It's exactly analogous to his calling Judge Curiel "Mexican." He may well be Mexican, or he was but gave it up. I find my fellow Americans woefully ignorant about how other countries go about "retaining" citizens. We assume that just because someone is born here that they are solely Americans. They most definitely are not. Both may have been dual citizens. Does anyone know for certain?
Minor point: The first time Trump said "Orlando" he said it in the "normal" American way. Back it up and watch it again.
Thank you
@pm317:
"I can get on board with stopping immigration from Saudi Arabia and other countries that practice Wahabism (spelling?) and encourage and fund terrorism."
That won't solve anything. There are plenty of radical salafists born and bred in Belgium, the UK, Germany, etc. Singling out nationalities is ineffective, and radical fanatics intent on doing harm can easily subvert immigration controls.
Meanwhile, Hillary is still a corrupt liar. How do you trust a liar and a political money grubber to lead?
That's some strong support for gay people! It sounds as though Catholics might have trouble meeting his standard.
Pretty sure most Catholics do not give a damn. May be tired of having the whole thing front and center day after day after day after day. Just like the rest of us.
FWIW Chic-Fil-A here in Knoxville is supporting the blood drive for Orlando victims with coupons for free sandwiches. I understand that they actually opened up on Sunday in Orlando and delivered food and drink to those lined up there to donate blood.
I disagree with J. Farmer. Why couldn't a candidate (preferably Trump) say as follows:
There are 11 countries in the world that execute gay people just because they are gay. Starting tomorrow, no one from any of those 11 countries will be allowed to enter the United States. No one. Not diplomats, not businessmen, not politicians. If your country persists in murdering innocents, we will have nothing to do with you. You and your countrymen are banned.
Why would neither candidate say this? Why won't Obama show some real leadership and say this? Why do we "go along" with such barbarity in the 21st century?
Let's be serious, for a change.
I concede that this stand was harder to take when we needed Saudi oil. We don't need it any more. Let's end the BS, shall we?
@FullMoon,
Totally uniformed. Remember who was there when AIDS was strictly considered a gay disease. Or the Church back in 1986 declaring that we must fight against unjust discrimination against gays.... that doesn't fit the Hollywood anti-Catholic narrative. Even atheists gay kids have a mom and dad, and that's why we're treated and smeared falsely as bigots.
♫ All we are saying is "Give Trump A Chance" ♫
There are 11 countries in the world that execute gay people just because they are gay. Starting tomorrow, no one from any of those 11 countries will be allowed to enter the United States. No one. Not diplomats, not businessmen, not politicians.
What about gays fleeing persecution?
Jim Gust:
Great idea, BHO and HRC have no guts and would never do it. HRC needs their money. And we still Islamic oil. We could have been energy independent about two years ago but the Greens wouldn't allow it.
Bruce Hayden burbled,
"I do find it humorous that Miriam the other day was telling us about being married ten years, and then her need of a late term abortion because an ultrasound detected birth defects, and now is an expert on gays. Wonder how many more fables she will regale us with to protect and promote Hillary over the next five months. Except she really doesn't promote Hillary that much, but instead attacks Trump."
Are you insane? I LINKED to an article about a woman who was married for ten years, got pregnant with a wanted baby, then needed an abortion after 20 weeks, due to her baby being anacephalic. It was an EXCERPT from that linked article. Read more carefully. Sloppy
"Blogger Miriam said...
At the risk of being accused of hijacking the thread, this idea of "no exceptions" must be addressed. No exceptions for the mother's health? What about exceptions due to the health of the fetus? That is what separates the extremists from the realists. There are real physical exceptions that happen in pregnancies after 20 weeks.
Why one woman had an abortion after 20 weeks.
"If such a ban had been in place a year ago, I would have been condemned to carry and give birth to a baby who had no chance at life.
I have been happily married for more than a decade, and I have two beautiful children. When my husband and I found out last year that I was pregnant again, we were overjoyed.
At 20 weeks, my husband and I went for our favorite prenatal visit: the detailed ultrasound anatomy scan that shows your baby’s heart, kidneys, bladder, stomach, spine and brain and whether you’re having a girl or a boy. I could barely contain myself as I sat on the exam table, eager to meet our baby more intimately. My husband and I chit-chatted with the ultrasound technician, gabbing and laughing when we recognized familiar features on the ultrasound images.
But after five minutes, only my husband and I were talking. The technician had grown quiet. She just kept printing picture after picture and pressing the wand deeper into the gel on my stomach.
My husband and I reached for each other’s hands. We asked the technician if everything was all right, and she said we should wait for a doctor to talk to us. When the OB/GYN entered, I remember asking point-blank, “Is there a chance our child will be okay?” He responded kindly, softly and unequivocally: “No.”"
BTW, your candidate Trump has been all over the place with his stance on abortion.round and round he goes, where he stops no one knows. He's on the record of being in favor of partial birth abortion. How do you folks square that circle?"
6/11/16, 2:57 PM
https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=6329595&postID=5427957566668111533
"The man, and anyone who thinks his unhinged ranting was effective at getting the message out, is an idiot."
Thank you.
"good luck wit dat..."
And Godspeed to you Sir.
Bruce Hayden,
The sentence "Why one woman had an abortion." was a hyperlink to the Washington Post article. It didn't copy as a hyperlink. Here is a hyperlink to the thread. Now you can apologize if you have any decency.
Here
rcocean what a grand knowledge you have, knowing what Most Gays think. Have you always known how every Gay thinks?
What metrics do you derive from your raw data that updates every single Gay thought in real time, assuming precise accuracy?
You know you have powers only God, and you now, have ever had, Together, so why be so reserved when spreading the (your and God's concerning Gays) infinite wisdom?
Does Miriam have a tip jar?
It/she/he is great. Really great.
Mr. Begley appears to me a moral, rational American of such sovereign wisdom I feel ashamed for any harsh words I may have ever spoken toward him or any argument of his I disagreed with using terms intemperate.
Miriam queried: BTW, your candidate Trump has been all over the place with his stance on abortion.round and round he goes, where he stops no one knows. He's on the record of being in favor of partial birth abortion. How do you folks square that circle?"
That puts him somewhere between the extremes of Ted Cruz and Hillary Clinton. And I think that is the country's mood at the moment.
How do you square your previous pro-life stances with Hillary's extremism?
"That's some strong support for gay people! It sounds as though Catholics might have trouble meeting his standard."
As Catholics are not homogenous, this statement makes no sense. By definition it is in fact bigotry. Defining a billion plus people as thinking so similarity one opens oneself up to shit accusations and nonsensical bullshit as opposed to a more honest inquiry into Man's nature. This is true even if the bullshit is meant to discriminate in a good, liberal, progressive way, not just the hateful ways most residence of Madison consider at the (silly) exclusion of more enlightened mind's dissipations.
There is more disparity within Nancy Pelosi Catholicism and Pope John Paul 2 than any law professor could possibly image, given the fortified lack of diversity in ideology cavewise.
I just realized how closely Rodham hewed to the Chinese "one child" policy. She really took it to heart. I wonder if Chelsea will break the spell.
Miriam and other baby killers wants us to believe that anacephaly is fatal.
I've got news for you.
http://www.lifenews.com/2014/10/28/baby-angela-born-with-anencephaly-defies-the-odds-turns-7-months-old/
But, I can see why you'd want to believe it's always fatal. Especially if you're the mother who killed her child. So I can see why that woman would want to believe that.
@Jim Gust:
"Why would neither candidate say this? Why won't Obama show some real leadership and say this? Why do we "go along" with such barbarity in the 21st century?"
I think that's a massively wrongheaded position to take. It's not the job of US immigration to alter the internal behavior of regimes we do not like. It's too benefit the American people. The point of a Muslim ban would not be to change the nature of the societies from which they come but to prevent potentially dangerous people from entering the country. However, banning certain nationalities would be ineffective at this task. Hence the simpler option of just stopping immigration all together.
Now, I happen to support a cease to immigration for reasons completely unrelated to radical Islam; but stopping potential threats from entering the country would be a nice side effect.
@eric:
"But, I can see why you'd want to believe it's always fatal."
The child was born in early 2014 and would be about two years old now if she was still alive. You're article is from 2014. The longest known child to have lived with the condition is 3 years 11 months. Angela had a rare form of the condition that affected mostly the fusion of her cranial bones. Most fetuses with the condition have no brain formation at all.
"'It sounds as though Catholics might have trouble meeting his standard.' Yeah...all those Catholic priests preaching that gays should be killed out of compassion, and all of those Catholic youths killing gays all over the world are a major problem......"
I'm interpreting Trump's words, the actual text, as spoken. He said: "Immigration is a privilege, and we should not let anyone into this country who doesn’t support our communities – all of our communities."
To qualify for immigration, you must support ALL our communities. You must SUPPORT the gay community. Not merely refrain from killing gay people or spreading the ideology that says gay people should be killed. You need to SUPPORT gay people.
That's what HE said.
AA
I understand your textual analysis but I think it was unnecessary to bring Catholics into this.
There are plenty of gay - and celibate - Catholic priests.
If you taught at Marquette instead of UW - and got to know the Jesuits there - you would have an entirely different attitude toward Catholics and the Catholic Church.
Freder Frederson talks about "the Afghan War where we were the ones arming and supporting the very same fundamentalist Muslims (including Bin Laden) who we are know having such problems with". That is not true. We supported what later became the Northern Alliance, who did nearly all the fighting against the Soviets. The Taliban was created and funded by Pakistani intelligence, and (rather like Mao in China WW2) spent most of their effort fighting the Northern Alliance, not the Soviets. Any US money that went to the Taliban was diverted by our Pakistani 'allies'.
Somebody get Miriam a cracker.
Oh.
And fill her water container.
And change the paper.
It's filthy.
To qualify for immigration, you must support ALL our communities. You must SUPPORT the community. Not merely refrain from killing Catholic people or spreading the ideology that says Catholic people should be killed. You need to SUPPORT Catholic people.
Gahrie said...
To qualify for immigration, you must support ALL our communities. You must SUPPORT the community. Not merely refrain from killing Catholic people or spreading the ideology that says Catholic people should be killed. You need to SUPPORT Catholic people.
You don't have to go that far. Just don't go around annoying people.
Or shooting them.
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