Said Donald Trump, adding: "I do not intend to comment on this matter any further."
I guess he felt the pushback, notably from Paul Ryan:
"Claiming a person can't do their job because of their race is sort of like the textbook definition of a racist comment," Ryan said at an event where he unveiled the GOP agenda to fight poverty in America. "I think that should be absolutely disavowed. It's absolutely unacceptable."Is this the first instance of Donald Trump backing down? He's only changing a little, and only saying others have misunderstood, not that he's said anything wrong.
I'm only giving this the "apology" tag because it's an example of not apologizing.
ADDED: Here's Trump's full statement. Let me quote an additional portion of it:
Normally, legal issues in a civil case would be heard in a neutral environment. However, given my unique circumstances as nominee of the Republican Party and the core issues of my campaign that focus on illegal immigration, jobs and unfair trade, I have concerns as to my ability to receive a fair trial....
Due to what I believe are unfair and mistaken rulings in this case and the Judge’s reported associations with certain professional organizations, questions were raised regarding the Obama appointed Judge’s impartiality. It is a fair question. I hope it is not the case.
Posts
196 comments:
Trump's in trouble!
Or maybe I'm just misconstruing that Trump's in trouble ...
Weeelllll....based on the previous posting thread, it seems logical to believe that a judge's ethnicity might have some bearing on his/her ruling. Just ask Justice Sotomayor!
Trump is going to learn quickly that they won't stop talking about it.
It surprises me that he said this though. I'd felt all along that Trump wouldn't be coopted by the Republican party like Rubio was.
This gives me my first doubt.
Viva Trump!
Ryan also fell into the trap of accepting "Mexican" as a "race."
The way things have been going this year, I do not think these people really should try to give Trump advice on how to campaign.
Finally he stops shooting himself in the foot. But the Dem-media industrial complex will not let go of this.
This isn't an apology. He did not indulge or exploit [class] diversity bias. From observation, and first-hand experience, he claims that the tenor of his judicial treatment changed with revelation of his pro-native and national responsibility positions.
Here's Trump's offending remarks. . As suspected, it's big nothing burger.
DONALD TRUMP: I have a judge who is a hater of Donald Trump. A hater. He's a hater. His name is Gonzalo Curiel.
SHAPIRO: Trump went on to say that the judge, quote, "should be ashamed of himself." And also said this.
(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED RECORDING)
TRUMP: The judge - who happens to be, we believe, Mexican, which is great. I think that's fine. You know what? I think the Mexicans are going to end up loving Donald Trump when I give all these jobs. OK? I think they're going to end up -
Nonetheless, it's good for Trump to stand down a bit -- reduce the tensions, the toxicity. True, anti-Trump protestors can disrupt rallies, and throw eggs at women, and beat people up, but God forbid Trump says something inartful about a judge....
The 2nd and 3rd hand commentary has exaggerated what he said.
all he had to do was say that and add, LEFTY judge to the mix. Because the lefty judges ARE biased because of race. Even the top Latino in the SC brags about it and says it SHOULD Be taht way.
Trump is too dumb to articulate things with nuance. His followers though need to go on the attack and say that he meant to say he's a mexican judge who is a leftist who engages in identity politics. THen him being a mexican IS relevant.
If he is a conservative who happens to be Mexican, you know A RACE TRAITOR, then you obviously shouldn't use his ehtniciity against him.
""Claiming a person can't do their job because of their race is sort of like the textbook definition of a racist comment,"
Did Trump say he CAN"T do his job? Or that he might be partial? ask any black person on trial in the south if the judges race might be a sign that they are partial.
LOLing. Ya really can't make this stuff up folks. What's next? I predict he'll get soon get mad at someone else and shoot off his bigoted mouth again...and again...and again....until one after another who endorsed him rescinds their endorsement out of embarrassment and shame.
I will not vote for Trump. I am not a Trump backer.
I am coming to believe that Trump's style is to push a lot of buttons until he finds out what will work best for the deal he is trying to make. If you got a guy that won't make a deal with you, invite him down to Mar a Lago for a weekend of golf and hanging out with hired celebrities. Let him smoke a joint with Steven Tyler at the cabana. Maybe send trio of hookers to his hotel room and see if that sweetens his attitude. Male hookers if that seems appropriate. If that doesn't work, see if he's open to taking a kickback. Tell off color jokes or racist jokes and see if they make the investor more simpatico. Whatever it takes to improve your position. Even if you've already agreed to a deal, there are always ways the terms can be sweetened.
Due to what I believe are unfair and mistaken rulings in this case ...
This was an opportunity for Trump to provide some examples of such rulings.
I think that this confirms what a lot of us on the right have feared about Mr. Trump – that he knows how to say inflammatory things that sweep people up in the heat of the moment but don’t stand up to scrutiny. All Mr. Trump had to say from the start was:
“The judge that is hearing the lawsuit against me is an active member of an organization (the Hispanic National Bar Association) that has publicly called for boycotting my business interests. I do not believe it is proper for a judge to be an active member of an organization that is hostile to someone who is appearing before them in their court as a party and question whether a judge can do so and maintain their duty to be an impartial judge. I call upon Judge Curiel to either recuse himself from my case or end his membership in that organization.”
Had he framed it like that from the beginning, all of the attention would have been on the judge and whether Mr. Trump is receiving a fair hearing (which would have negated some of the bad press he’s received from the Trump University lawsuit). Instead by phrasing things in a way that makes it look like another case of “Trump personally attacks anyone who criticizes him” or making comments that force his supporters to explain about why what Trump said is not really racist, he and his supporters are on the defensive while people who were unsure about whether to support him are backing away.
I really wish there was an 'Edit' function...
You know... I keep reading about what a blowhard ignoramus Trump is, but then when you actually READ his comments, they seem to be pretty straight-forward and not-crazy at all... I think it's totally fair to question the impartiality of a political appointee based on their history of decision making and current radical associations.
This is a stumble for Trump, but not because his overall position is incorrect. His mistake is that he lost control of the narrative and allowed it to become about race, as opposed to yet again moving the Overton Window to highlight a very real and ugly aspect of our current environment which no one wants acknowledge. I'll let you all guess what that aspect is....
I do not understand Paul Ryan - and now Bob Corker - jabbering about Trump saying a judge can't do his job because of his race.
Trump has not said any such thing; he has said that he does not like what Judge Curiel is doing to him, and from the vehemence of his speech, I would say he thinks Judge Curiel is quite competent at it.
So, this is yet another "headline" controversy manufactured by special and peculiar interests then enthusiastically spread by journolists in order to deprive him of a fair hearing and Republicans of their candidate.
Maybe Trump is hearkening back to the New York state court system of his youth, when civil cases weren't individually assigned at the outset, but instead a different judge heard every pretrial dispute. That way the losing side automatically saw their judge effectively recused after each ruling.
It surprises me that he said this though. I'd felt all along that Trump wouldn't be coopted by the Republican party like Rubio was.
Well, he (or his lawyers) do have to deal with the Judge during the trial. I think it makes sense to placate -- sort of -- the judge.
I do hope the Wall does not have KKK shapes anywhere in the precast concrete structures. The Beautiful Gate will need a good design with some Spanish insulting jokes on it. He will call it The Razz Them Gate.
Dat Old Man Trump, he just keeps rolling along. And he say plenty.
Joshua Barker wrote . . .
You know... I keep reading about what a blowhard ignoramus Trump is, but then when you actually READ his comments, they seem to be pretty straight-forward and not-crazy at all
Trump says that he is going to build a wal and make the Mexicans pay for it! Outrageous! Is he some kind of F'n clown?
But his actual proposal (as given on his election website's policies pages sounds reasonably well thought out:
"Introduction: The provision of the Patriot Act, Section 326 - the "know your customer" provision, compelling financial institutions to demand identity documents before opening accounts or conducting financial transactions is a fundamental element of the outline below. That section authorized the executive branch to issue detailed regulations on the subject, found at 31 CFR 130.120-121. It's an easy decision for Mexico: make a one-time payment of $5-10 billion to ensure that $24 billion continues to flow into their country year after year. There are several ways to compel Mexico to pay for the wall including the following:
On day 1 promulgate a "proposed rule" (regulation) amending 31 CFR 130.121 to redefine applicable financial institutions to include money transfer companies like Western Union, and redefine "account" to include wire transfers. Also include in the proposed rule a requirement that no alien may wire money outside of the United States unless the alien first provides a document establishing his lawful presence in the United States."
https://www.donaldjtrump.com/positions/pay-for-the-wall
Maybe it will work, maybe it won't, maybe it's just a negotiator's first position, but it serves to remind citizens that if they travel out of the country with a few thousand dollars cash, they are at risk of it getting confiscated, but illegal aliens aliens are given carte blanche to transfer money out of the US.
It is a fair to ask whether a second generation Mexican-American who retains cultural ties to his parent's native country might be biased against Trump, just as it is reasonable to ask if the white cops preying on the black population in Ferguson were motivated by racial animus.
In an ideal world no politician would be subject to any legal action while they are running for office or while in office, since all of these investigations take on a partisan, and therefore potentially biased, tone. Unfortunately, this ideal world would also require that politicians not be a bunch of crooks.
. All Mr. Trump had to say from the start was:
If I had a hay penny for every time during an election I've heard this, I'd be richer than bill gates.
Give me a break. He could say, "I like swiss cheese" and because he has elected to put an R next to his name, the media (and some idiot Republicans) would be up in arms over it.
Surely you're old enough to know this by now.
"The judge - who happens to be, we believe, Mexican, which is great. I think that's fine. You know what? I think the Mexicans are going to end up loving Donald Trump when I give all these jobs. OK?"
He is going to (not employ but) to give jobs to Mexicans? Certainly not in the US because the wall will take care of that. So, in Mexico?
Is he going to ever get on top of his Trump U problems with continuing idiotic statements?
Have his lawyers asked the judge to recuse himself because of bias or because their client has attacked him? Apparently not. ("It's extremely well established ... that you can't judge-shop by being a douche." Popehat)
Does he think he's gained any more voters to his side? Nah.
No, Joshua; what Trump said was completely crazy.
Trump has lawyers; if the District Judge has an ethical issue, they can make that claim. If the Judge's association with LaRaza is an issue, Trump could have said that, and instructed his lawyers to file a recusal motion, an interlocutory appeal of prior pretrial rulings, or some other standard procedural action.
But Trump went his own, uninformed, ignorant tactless way. He called the judge "a Mexican," which was a ludicrous comment, even as he employed the usual Trump-speak to say, 'there's nothing wrong with being a Mexican...'
It is stupid. It is ridiculous. It is inexcusable.
"It is a fair question. I hope it is not the case."
His lawyers say it's not. Moving the trial to after the election was a nice result for them.
I bet when Trump does deals in Mexico he has Mexican lawyers. He should bring a few of them up for this, just to observe and advise. That would make for some fun journalism.
Of course by then the election will be over.
Maybe.
Trump's statement and concerns are perfectly reasonable. The judge is a member of a racist association and it's almost a certainty that he's predisposed to be hostile to Trump.
I do not understand Paul Ryan - and now Bob Corker - jabbering about Trump saying a judge can't do his job because of his race.
Trump has not said any such thing; he has said that he does not like what Judge Curiel is doing to him, and from the vehemence of his speech, I would say he thinks Judge Curiel is quite competent at it.
Paul Ryan doesn't need a Republican president in order to be successful in his current position, everyone else be damned. Since Trump won the nomination, Ryan's effectively been running against him: "Look at me! Look at me! Wouldn't I make a great president?"
Trump's style and tone has attracted a lot of supports, so much so, that he won the primary fair and square.
But his style and tone obviously rubs many on the left, many in the media, and many Republicans the wrong way.
I'm not a huge fan of his style and tone either.
However, I try to ignore his style and tone, and focus in on his policy prescriptions, and compare them to Hillary's policy prescriptions.
Trump is much better than Hillary on 2nd Amendment Rights and on SCOTUS judges. He's better than her with dealing with illegal immigration too. We know what the Dems want and what they will do there -- open the floodgates, increase the voter rolls, expand the welfare state.
That is a sufficient basis to vote Trump. As such, it's good to avoid the daily whiplash from the media vortex of herky jerky, pro-Tump/anti-Trump - he's-good-for-ratings-but-we-hate-the-fascist hysteria.
Really it boils down to Trump vs. the purveyors of PC. It's a great litmus test. You know immediately which side a person is on by their stance in this controversy.
Paul Ryan may be a Republican but he is supporting the Cultural Marxist infiltration of America and thus is a pawn of the left. It's as simple as that.
So, is it true that THe judge belongs to an organization that threatened to boycott Trump because of his statement about mexicans and rapists?
"By his recent derogatory remarks about Mexican immigrants, Donald Trump’s disrespect of such a large segment of the population of America is not only unbelievable but outright wrong,” the press release states. “His comment that Mexico only sends rapists and criminals to the United States reveals a racist nature that cannot and will not go unnoticed by the Hispanic National Bar Association nor the Latino community.”
The press release adds:
The HNBA calls for a boycott of all of Trump business ventures, including golf courses, hotels, and restaurants. We salute NBC/Universal, Univision and Macy’s for ending their association with Trump, and we join them in standing up against bigotry and racist rhetoric. Other businesses and corporations should follow the lead of NBC/Universal, Univision and Macy’s and take similar actions against Donald Trump’s business interests. We can and will make a difference."
THis wasnt' because of his current statement this was because of his previous statement. Which I note that they got WRONG. He didnt say they ONLY send rapists and criminals to the US. So, they are not even very precise.
But, if this group is affiliated with the judge (as reported by Breitbart) i would CERTAINLY feel like there was a bias going on. they tried BOYCOTT his business. And now an someone affiliated to them is overseeing his trial?
Give me a break.
Trump is trying. He has a response to every angle I've heard him skewered by.
It sounds like he actually *is* sorry for the consequence of his comment and didn't after all have some mastermind tar-baby briar-patch master plan.
Being anti- illegal immigration really is the most sane and normal thing. How odd that we're supposed to act like it's pariah material. How about scoring immigrants (+ their eventually reunified families) per expected benefits to us current citizens? Australia and others do it. What a fantastically different state of affairs we'd have today if we'd decades ago done that and overturned the anchor-baby ruling and/or amended the constitution if necessary.
Oh, obviously the judge *probably* is biased. We don't know that yet for certain but it seems completely obvious. You can tell who the complete phonies are because they're pretending it's not.
That said, voluntary or petitioned recusal seems impossible. The trial was underway with this judge already before Trump came out against illegal immigration.
V
I do not know which to prefer,
The beauty of inflections
Or the beauty of innuendos,
Donald Trump tweeting
Or just after.
Blogger Chuck said...
No, Joshua; what Trump said was completely crazy.
Trump has lawyers; if the District Judge has an ethical issue, they can make that claim. If the Judge's association with LaRaza is an issue, Trump could have said that, and instructed his lawyers to file a recusal motion, an interlocutory appeal of prior pretrial rulings, or some other standard procedural action.
But Trump went his own, uninformed, ignorant tactless way. He called the judge "a Mexican," which was a ludicrous comment, even as he employed the usual Trump-speak to say, 'there's nothing wrong with being a Mexican...'
It is stupid. It is ridiculous. It is inexcusable.
I'm starting to worry about you Chuck. You ok?
Btw, the judge is Mexican. Mexican American. His parents were first generation Americans amd therefore Mexico recognizes the judge as having dual citizenship.
So, he may not be part of the group directly, but his groups are linked:
https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2016/06/07/la-raza-judge-gonzalo-curiel-and-the-hispanic-national-bar-association/
He is affiliated with both the HNBA. Hispanic National Bar Association and La Raza Lawyers association. The HNBA is the one that threatened to boycott his businesses. But we are to assume NO possibility of bias. RIIGGGGHHHTTTT.
also the judge supposedly "Accidentally" leaked the names of all the plaintiffs to the media.
http://lawnewz.com/high-profile/whoops-judge-mistakenly-unsealed-too-many-records-in-trump-u-lawsuit/ Which allowed them to all report on the details. And the he resealed the records after the damage was done.
But that was accidental. RIGGGGHHHHTTTTT.
Dammit, Paul is on to us.
The CMIA pawns meeting at the usual place is hereby cancelled. (The rooks and knights meetings will go on as scheduled.)
"I will not vote for Trump. I am not a Trump backer. "
You'll just love Hillary. If she is not in prison, of course.
Today Hillary remained convinced that she has done nothing the least bit wrong in allowing all her emails, both incoming and outgoing, as SecState to be hacked by every ally and enemy of the United States.
And we're talking about a political show trial run by Hillary operatives, instead.
Say hallelujah, Chuck. I personally call a bull#$%& on what the Donald said, backtracking from his original rhetoric. I cannot stand Hillary but..... I cannot vote for him. Looks like its Snoopy for me.
vicki from Pasadena
Bay Area Guy said...
We know what the Dems want and what they will do there -- open the floodgates, increase the voter rolls, expand the welfare state.
Two words: Reagan, amnesty.
Both parties are in the tank for interest groups that want an unlimited supply of cheap labor.
Ryan is as popular as a strong fart in a two-man space capsule. I wouldn't worry about his spurious sanctimony.
"Dammit, Paul is on to us.
The CMIA pawns meeting at the usual place is hereby cancelled. (The rooks and knights meetings will go on as scheduled.)"
You are what is known as a "useful idiot". You needn't be clever enough to form a conspiracy, just dumb enough to help the left take out an individual bent on pushing back against PC from a position of power.
Good job asshole.
Blogger Michael K said...
"I will not vote for Trump. I am not a Trump backer. "
Easy decision for me to make. My state is solid blue, and went for Obama over Romney by 70%-28% in 2012. I can uphold my conservative principles cheaply. If I lived in a state that was in contest I would vote for Trump based on his likely judicial appointments.
Chuck and Vicky from Pasadena. Leftist enabler and leftist. Such a cute couple.
Trump's support goes to zero if he starts caving to PC police.
It would be a bad sign of things to come.
I love how Paul Ryan channels Hugo Black here, and uses the word "absolute."
It's too bad Curiel will never have the wisdom of Sotomayor's spicy brown poonanner.
Thorley Winston said...
Had he framed it like that from the beginning, all of the attention would have been on the judge and whether Mr. Trump is receiving a fair hearing....
6/7/16, 5:00 PM
i think i agree with this. i also wonder if the phrasing he went with was intentional because he thought it would have evoked more animosity from his supporters.
Two words: Reagan, amnesty.
We were promised that the Reagan Amnesty was a one time, last time thing, and that all the legislation we were passing, including employer punishments and a border wall, would be enforced. There would be no new flood of illegal immigration. We were lied to, which is why no one is willing to "compromise" on amnesty this time.
Someone needs to clue in the NAACP, Rangel, Sharpton, Jackson, Farrakhan, Lee, Waters....
Paul Ryan doesn't need a Republican president in order to be successful in his current position, everyone else be damned.
Of course he doesn't...he and McConnell prefer to work with the Democrats anyway.
I'm more of a Ryan guy, than a Trump guy -- but Ryan is dead wrong here. It's as if some members of the GOP are so frightened at being tarred as a racist, that they try to get out in front by denouncing others as racist on flimsy 2nd hand evidence.
Ryan should have just shut up.
Trump called the Judge a "hater." I hate that modern lingo too -- but whatever it is, it's not racist.
As noted above, to avoid all this targeting by racial-hucksters, just call them Leftists. Leftist moron. Left-wing idiot. Then, you're in the clear. Maybe!
Reagan amnesty was indeed a mistake. We learned the lesson, not to make it again.
That's why I hate Cucks like Ryan. This asshole is more Racist than Trump. But he can't wait to attack the Republican nominee with charges of Racism and help elect Hillary.
The Democrats are laughing their asses off over this Wisconsin fool doing their work.
mebbe he shoulda paid his way outta this like he did in Texas and Florida...who is the AG? is it too late?
eric, Trump didn't say that Judge Curiel was a "Mexican-American." Trump said the judge was a "Mexican." The judge is not a Mexican. He's an American, born in Indiana who has lived his entire life as an American.
But you know, eric, now that you mentioned it, is the unusual taunting, bullying, passive-aggressive way that Trump went about this attack on the judge in his civil fraud trial.
Let's quote Trump, again...
The first remark: I have a judge who is a hater of Donald Trump. A hater. He's a hater. His name is Gonzalo Curiel... The judge - who happens to be, we believe, Mexican, which is great. I think that's fine. You know what? I think the Mexicans are going to end up loving Donald Trump when I give all these jobs. OK? I think they're going to end up...
Then, Trump with Jake Tapper: “But he’s an American,” Tapper said of the Indiana-born jurist. “If you’re saying he cannot do his job because of his race, is that not the definition of racism?”
“No, he’s proud of his heritage,” Trump said. “We’re building a wall. He’s a Mexican.”
WTF? "We believe" that the Judge is "a Mexican"? What the fuck is that supposed to mean? Does Trump have some secret info, like his personal secret investigation of the Obama birth certificate in Hawaii? The one that turned up nothing?
And what up with the part about Trump thinking that "it's great" that the judge "is a Mexican"? What is the problem if it is "great"? What sort of weird passive-aggressive word gaming is all of that?
Trump's not just a bully, and a liar and an idiot -- he's got a screw loose underneath the orange hair.
I think that Ryan should show his solidarity with our south of the border friends and neighbors by wearing a big ol' sombrero to his next press conference.
NeverTrumpers needs to change their names to "AlwaysHillary" because that's all they're trying to do.
I think that Ryan should show his solidarity with our south of the border friends and neighbors by wearing a big ol' sombrero to his next press conference.
LOL. Don't give him ideas.
If I lived in a state that was in contest I would vote for Trump based on his likely judicial appointments.
Vote for him anyway.
We tried to get the Republicans attention in 2010 and they ignored us.
We tried to get the Republicans attention in 2014 and they ignored us.
If he beats the pants off the lame McCain and/or Romney tickets, even in a losing cause, they might pay attention.
I learned long ago (Perot in 1992) that a third party vote is a wasted and thrown away vote. If you want to keep Democrats out of office (and I do with all my heart) vote against the Democrat even if you hate their opposition.
Oh hahahahahahaaah, Trump is using a teleprompter tonight. They are trying to put a muzzle on the mad dog. How long will it stay on?
Baby, do you understand me now?
Sometimes I feel a little mad
But don't you know that no one alive can always be an angel
When things go wrong I feel real bad.
I'm just a soul whose intentions are good
Oh Lord, please don't let me be misunderstood
Voting in today's CA primary (absentee mail-in, can't be hacked LoL),registered "R" so only vote counts is POTUS. Abstained! Since top two for Senate will be freedom/liberty crushing Dems, I went for the lesser evil, Sanchez over criminal Harris, try to deny her a pre-November win. BTW, as you can infer, I'm #nevertrump but meaningless here in the Peoples Republic of CA, similar to Madison but with a lot more illegals & dead people voting.
"Finally he stops shooting himself in the foot. But the Dem-media industrial complex will not let go of this."
Just stopping to reload.
LA Raza. Hello... this judge and others in the suit are associated with LA Raza.
What's the deal here? Is he Mexican when he wants to be and otherwise not? Does ethnicity matter only when it matters? Does anyone think that all that wise latina horseshit guides only Sotomayor?
How long will we go on falling for this play?
Mitch McConnel said today that Trump MUST stay "on script"( or else...) LOL!
Does ethnicity matter
It shouldn't matter generally. Unfortunately, resumption of [class] diversity policies has undermined social development and legal virtue.
I've never seen such piling on in my life. Is it possible that all the gleeful attackers are misconstruing what Trump was saying? This is mob action. The public can see it for what it is. I hope.
The public has seen Trump for what he is. THAT is the reality.
I do not understand why Paul Ryan, Mitch McConnell, etc., etc. are all responding to what the media says Trump said rather than what he did say, which is bad enough, but nothing like what the Dems claim.
I think commenters above may be onto something when they speculate that the Republican leaders n Congress would rather deal with Hillary! and the Democrats, such as they are, than the unfamiliar and uncontrollable Donald Trump.
Based on Bay Area guy's comment about the nothing burger comments..which read like a partial transcript, sought out more and found this classic Trumpism from FTN:
DICKERSON: Let me ask you about Libya. You have been highly critical of Libya and Hillary Clinton. You were also for military action to oust Gadhafi and military action to take care of humanitarian situation in Libya. You supported that.
TRUMP: When you say supported it, I supported Libya?
DICKERSON: Yes, you supported intervention in Libya.
TRUMP: I did? Where do you see that?
DICKERSON: In a video blog from 2011, you said:
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Now, we should go in. We should stop this guy, which would be very easy and very quick. We could do it surgically, stop him from doing it and save these lives.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: That`s a big difference from what we`re talking about.
DICKERSON: But you were for intervention.
(CROSSTALK)
TRUMP: Again, I`m only one. I made lot of money with Gadhafi. If you remember, he came to country and he had to make a deal with me because he needed a place to stay, and he paid me a fortune, never got to stay there. And it became sort of a big joke.
But fact is that Libya was a disaster from standpoint of way it was handled.
DICKERSON: But you were for intervention, just to clear that up?
TRUMP: I was for doing something, but I wasn`t for what you have right now.
And right now, ISIS has their oil, John. ISIS is selling -- that is among finest oil in world. ISIS has taken over Libyan oil. And we don`t do blockades. We don`t do anything. They`re selling it. They`re making a fortune with it.
So, we go out, we do Libya, we do it poorly, as poorly as you can do it. You can`t do worse. And then now, if you look at what`s happened, end result is, ISIS selling oil and it`s a total mess.
DICKERSON: This is one of things that confuses some people about your positions. You said you weren`t for intervention, but you were for intervention in Libya.
TRUMP: I didn`t mind surgical. And I said surgical. You do a surgical shot and you take them out.
But I wasn`t for what happened. Look at way it`s -- look at -- with Benghazi and with all of problems that you have had. It was handled horribly.
(CROSSTALK)
DICKERSON: But you said you were never for intervention.
TRUMP: I was never for a strong intervention. I could have seen surgical, where you take out Gadhafi and his group.
Geez. You really will defend/Althousplain away every warped thing the Orange Cretin says. One wonders when you'll start doing the same for Hillary.
Does ethnicity matter
Culture matters. Donald's obviously got none.
"lifelong republican" Chuck: "The judge is not a Mexican. He's an American, born in Indiana who has lived his entire life as an American."
The judge is a member of La Raza. So I guess the judge disagrees with you.
Rhythm and Balls: "Does ethnicity matters. Culture matters. Donald's obviously got none."
This just in, The Donald has "none" culture.
One does wonder from whence he sprang.
That precise use of language in "his" current statement is more like how he should be able to speak. His staff did well. I can picture Trump reading it like he did the Ethanol pander.
With this swirling around, I doubt we'll see trad guy floating the great Scot references for a while.
R&B's: "One wonders when you'll start doing the same for Hillary."
Althouses voice, if raised in explaining away Hillary's transgressions, would be like a whisper in the tornado that is the MSM/Praetorian Guard defense of Hillary.
Personally, I'm with Bernie when it comes to judging Hillary's fitness for office, but the left has patiently explained to me that Bernie is just a stupid bigoted old white dude who should not be listened to and that anyone who supports Bernie has a real problem. so I guess I'll have to run with that.
BTW, you are a Bernie supporter, aren't you?
Pity.
walter: "His staff did well. I can picture Trump reading it like he did the Ethanol pander"
He should simply have said it in Austrian so those on the left could understand.
Let me guess, it's racist to mention "Austrian" as a language now, isn't it?
AReasonableMan reminds: Both parties are in the tank for interest groups that want an unlimited supply of cheap labor.
I agree and that is the problem in a nutshell.
"Let me guess, it's racist to mention "Austrian" as a language now, isn't it?
Well..you have to hear how Trump uses it in a sentence..
This just in, The Donald has "none" culture.
One does wonder from whence he sprang.
Why, an orange-haired orangutan.
In fact, he's so embarrassed about that fact that he will sue and sue and sue and sue to avenge it from being divulged.
Drago said...
"lifelong republican" Chuck: "The judge is not a Mexican. He's an American, born in Indiana who has lived his entire life as an American."
The judge is a member of La Raza. So I guess the judge disagrees with you.
Explain just exactly what you are saying, you miserable fuckhead. Are you saying that the judge is indeed "a Mexican"? That the judge is not, as I said, a native-born American citizen?
But hey, don't waste too much time on that, because we have to get to the task of shoving the "La Raza" conflation down your throat.
The Washington Post's Fact Checker explains:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2016/06/07/trump-supporters-false-claim-that-trump-u-judge-is-a-member-of-a-pro-immigrant-group/
And then because you'll suspect the Washington Post as part of the Mainstream Liberal Media Hegemony, you should not that the Leon Wolf at the conservative RedState website does much the same:
http://www.redstate.com/leon_h_wolf/2016/06/03/dishonest-attempt-associate-gonzalo-curiel-la-raza/
Chuck now uses RedState to bolster his arguments.
LOL
Ooooo, that was a bigly big speech read off the prompter. Donald struggled to stay on script, sort of felt bad for him to be constrained so. Didn't look natural.
"Lifelong republican" Chuck: "Explain just exactly what you are saying, you miserable fuckhead."
The judge is a member of La Raza. I hope that helps.
"Lifelong republican" Chuck: "Are you saying that the judge is indeed "a Mexican"? That the judge is not, as I said, a native-born American citizen?"
The judge is a member of La Raza. I hope that helps.
Note: In the future, it will be easier to determine what I am saying if you read what I wrote. I hope that helps.
"Lifelong Republican" Chuck: "But hey, don't waste too much time on that, because we have to get to the task of shoving the "La Raza" conflation down your throat."
The judge being a member of La Raza is not a "conflation". I hope that helps.
Additional "chuck"-related: being a "La Raza Lawyer of San Diego" does not affiliate one in any way with La Raza, similar in thinking that being a New York Yankee does not necessarily infer that one is involved with baseball.
Thanks "lifelong republican" Chuck!
R&B's: "Why, an orange-haired orangutan. In fact, he's so embarrassed about that fact that he will sue and sue and sue and sue to avenge it from being divulged."
Well, that does seem quite "Science"-based!
chickelit: "Chuck now uses RedState to bolster his arguments. LOL"
He probably broke out in hives just navigating to the site!
I missed Chuck's spirited defense of La Raza. Perhaps he could repost it? If he didn't post one, he needs to do so.
I mean, there is now a goon writing on RedState who fancies himself to be John Brown and has suggested arming illegal aliens to protect themselves from Trump supporters.
Drago said...
chickelit: "I missed Chuck's spirited defense of La Raza. Perhaps he could repost it? If he didn't post one, he needs to do so."
"Lifelong republican" chucks schtick is rapidly approaching Inga-level devaluation.
It's nothing that a few more Soros-bucks can't fix however. But that's just me! Always the optimist!
RedState should be renamed "Little Red Footballs."
Blogger chickelit: "I mean, there is now a goon writing on RedState who fancies himself to be John Brown and has suggested arming illegal aliens to protect themselves from Trump supporters. "
Yeah, those poor outgunned illegals/Mexicans/paid protestors/gang members/La Raza types kicking the crap out of Trump supporters in front of a dormant San Jose police force, led by a police chief, who himself is affiliated with La Raza, sure could use some extra weapons!
Drago you moronic piece of shit.
The La Raza lawyers' guild isn't the same thing as The National Council of La Raza.
You should have read the material I linked.
I have lots of friends who are members of The Federalist Society in Michigan. And they include Justices of the Michigan Supreme Court and the Michigan Court of Appeals. Would they -- could they -- be asked to recuse themselves if they were asked to rule on questions of political import in the state? I can answer that for you because it has happened. There was no recusal.
Your shit-stupid baseball/Yankees metaphor went nowhere, because it doesn't work. I've got a better analogy for you. It would be like saying, "the judge can't hear a case about baseball collective bargaining, because he's a part owner of the Cardinals." When I say, "But it's the Arizona Cardinals; the football team!," a normal person might back down. But not you. You're a Trump man. Don't ever let the facts get in the way of a successful news-cycle.
Chuck: "The La Raza lawyers' guild isn't the same thing as The National Council of La Raza."
LOL. As anyone, especially a "lifelong republican" knows, it's all the same thing and, interestingly enough, quite similar to the all the cold war "guilds" that were funded/partially funded out of Moscow.
Thanks comrade!
Hey, it's just a coincidence that the La Raza affiliated judge improperly released documents from the Trump casee to the public while at the same time a La Raza supporting Mayor blames Trump rally attendees for the violence visited on them by La Raza supporting individuals all while the La Raza affiliated police chief has his police force stand idle within visual sight of the beatdowns.
Unexpectedly!!
Good old Chuck! Those Trumpies sure had it coming didn't they? And how dare anyone criticize a group with a genocidal intent to wipe out whitey and return the Western US to Mexico?!!
And again, for about the ten thousandth time (perhaps the different "lifelong republican" chucks who inhabit that online persona don't communicate with each other effectively) I supported Cruz.
The judge's organization was a professional one, not nationalistic. This shit's already been debunked, wing nuts. It was no more nationalist than associations of Irish American lawyers, or black lawyers, or Jewish lawyers. You people really have gotten to be a bunch of autistic rottweilers when sinking your tiny fangs into the whole hatred of Mexico thing. Less and less people are buying it but I sure hope your bubble is comfortable and holds you tight as it collapses.
Idiots.
R&B's: "This shit's already been debunked, wing nuts. It was no more nationalist than associations of Irish American lawyers, or black lawyers, or Jewish lawyers."
Who can forget all those associations of Irish/black/Jewish lawyers in support of groups who wanted to destroy the US, kill off whitey and give large swaths of the US to other countries?
Why, it seems like only yesterday support of those types of groups might have been frowned upon. How quaint.
Who can forget all those associations of Irish/black/Jewish lawyers in support of groups who wanted to destroy the US, kill off whitey and give large swaths of the US to other countries?
Or the ancient astronauts who seeded life on the earth. Or the tinfoil hat that keeps your brain safe from those mind-control waves.
There is no end to your wing-nuttiness. One thing is for sure: You're not a lawyer. You don't know any that respect you enough to tell you the truth, either.
And finally, this shit your Orange-Haired Hero's pulling is another thing that he's going to lose. There are enough Republican lawyers in Congress who just told your ignorant stupid ass that very truth today.
@R&B: You would be more effective if you argued that "La Raza" means totally different things in the "bad" La Raza group and the alleged "good" La Raza group to which the good Judge belongs. Either that or just outright defend the notion of "La Raza." Tell us what a force for justice it is. But don't leave out how Cesar Chavez wanted nothing to do with them.
why are people talking about 'la raza' as though it were an organization?
I have to believe that those lefty radicals I grew up with in Southern California way back when, who were not shy at all about their goals and the methods by which those goals would be realized, must be quite pleased with the progress made to date.
I would have to say, on a strategic and objective basis, they are at least 50% of the way towards de facto operational and day to day success. Which must give them great hope that they can achieve de jure success as well in the long run.
I have to admit that I always thought that in the long run these lefties would be successful since humans are humans and the center cannot hold forever. But I am surprised at the speed at which this is being accomplished today.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_Raza
@R&B: You would be more effective if you argued that "La Raza" means totally different things in the "bad" La Raza group and the alleged "good" La Raza group to which the good Judge belongs. Either that or just outright defend the notion of "La Raza." Tell us what a force for justice it is. But don't leave out how Cesar Chavez wanted nothing to do with them.
1. I don't need to be "effective" with you (or Drago) because you near-invalids have an agenda to believe whatever political crap you want to believe, reality be damned.
2. La Raza means something different in Spanish, period AFAIK.
3. La Raza Lawyers of California has a website that describes itself as "The Latino Bar Association of California." Sounds pretty generic and non-America destroying to me. But then, we all know the history you Trump and Drago types have of going after ethnic groups as code for "defending" your pseudo-patriotism. They've done it to others in the past, they'll scrounge around for others to do it to in the future. It's because you have no more real issues worth defending and are just left with a core of paranoid ethnic crazy-hate around which to organize. Good luck.
R&B's: "Or the ancient astronauts who seeded life on the earth. Or the tinfoil hat that keeps your brain safe from those mind-control waves."
I can see someone here has not drunk deeply at the philosophical well of Professor Jose Gutierrez.
Ignorance of history and historical figures (and this one is still around and kicking!) is nothing to brag about.
But that's right, the good Professor didn't mean a word of it. Not a word!
What a moron
http://larazalawyers.net
Just STFU and read and/or listen for a goddamn minute, Drago. Don't worry, the RNC/Diebold/private prison industries won't jail you if you actually let someone's comment upload without pretending that only a scattershot machine gun snipe attack against it is the only thing standing between you and civilization.
They won't come around asking for your papers. They won't claim you to be "illegal."
And neither will President Trump. But that's because there won't be a President Trump.
So go refill your Adderall and watch a baseball game or something. Whatever it is that confirmed lifelong bachelors-not-by-choice like you do with your evenings.
2. La Raza means something different in Spanish, period AFAIK.
What does it mean, R&B? I've already heard from native spanish speakers.
This is why I asked you to defend it, R&B. Only you can set us straight on matters of language.
R&B's: "http://larazalawyers.net"
LOL
Earlier iterations of R&B's: The Soviet-American Friendship Society is NOT a propaganda outfit, it's just a place for nice folks to hang out!!
Newsflash: radical groups don't often publically proclaim their real intentions and are happy to make use of Useful Idiots to advance their cause!
Shock of shocks!! This can't be! That would be unprecedented!! The next thing you will tell me is there is bias in the academy!!
calling someone a 'member' of la raza is like calling someone a 'member' of the whites. it makes no sense.
vicari valdez: "calling someone a 'member' of la raza is like calling someone a 'member' of the whites. it makes no sense."
I, as a white guy, know it's not my place to "white-splain" to La Raza members the error of their chosen nomenclature.
in case you missed it earlier: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_Raza
This is why I asked you to defend it, R&B. Only you can set us straight on matters of language.
You certainly can't set me straight on matters of honesty. Where's your apology for telling me that I "defended" Crack Emcee after I re-posted the thread-match between me and him where you said, and I quote, "chickenlittle said...
@Ritmo: Your reasoning skills and command of history have been fun to watch tonight. Thanks for that.
January 22, 2014 at 12:16 AM"
Your memory appears to be fallible. My understanding is that "raza" doesn't just mean "race" in Spanish, or at least is not connoted solely that way.
In any event, I look forward to hearing you apparently inept stereotypes of stupid white males to tell us what professional organizations Latino American lawyers are allowed to have. Put together a GOP-run government organization mandating what names will be acceptable, and what their mission statement should be. Other than, of course, "La Raza Lawyers of California is an independent unincorporated association of Lawyers organized in 1977 to support Chicano and Latino Lawyers in California and serve as a statewide network for local affiliate La Raza Lawyers Groups. We meet quarterly at various locations around the state and represent 16 different local organizations with over 2,000 attorneys. We are affiliated with the Hispanic National Bar Association."
Because that's very, very divisive and destructive to America. Befitting no less than full political-government scrutiny into how it is that Latino American lawyers could have the audacity to maintain their own professional organizations. This is the very thing that the government under the political arm of political hack Donald Trump and his underling Drago should intrude into and destroy right now. No more private, professional organizations.
Is it any wonder that sitcoms are rife with bumbling white male characters? You two dudes seem to epitomize that. Very embarrassing. There really are way too many of you to find any respect for, aren't there.
@R&B: I responded to you last night on that thread at Lem's. You either didn't go back, or you ignored me.
Yes. Your intensely obfuscating apologetic non-apology simply wasn't worth responding to. It was pretzel logic.
Yes. Your intensely obfuscating apologetic non-apology simply wasn't worth responding to. It was pretzel logic.
Says you and you alone.
R&B's: "Your memory appears to be fallible. My understanding is that "raza" doesn't just mean "race" in Spanish, or at least is not connoted solely that way."
That would depend on who you are speaking with and how particularly "open" that individual might be at the moment to lay it all out there.
You can pick up amazing stuff growing up and spending significant amounts of time listening to those actually involved in the movement. Casual, unofficial time. In their homes, on the corners, etc.
And that's when you hear the real "stuff".
So, it's fair to ask, was that a long time ago? Well, possibly. more than a couple decades.
Could it be that those folks never acquired power and more moderate elements took over? We have to say yes, that is a possibility. But many of the faces are the same and the tactics, like the long march thru the institutions, rings consistent with what was spoken of then.
So, what to do? Take caveat-boy ("AFAIK") R&B as the voice of authority or the latest wiki entry as "Truth"?
Or default back to what I heard directly from the front lines?
I think I'll give those involved the appropriate weighting in terms of formulating my analysis, naysayers be darned.
R&B: "It was pretzel logic."
Yes, but what kind of pretzel?
It must be getting close to lunchtime!
So the real question, Drago the Paranoid, is exactly how many lines of text DO you need to devote to convincing yourself (and not many others) of this fear you have that Latino Americans will create a racial hierarchy of power in American institutions that reduces all us poor white folk to custodial work and farmhands at less than minimum wage for fear of being caught while overstepping the bounds of our clearly inferior governmental status here in America.
@Drago: The best kind of Pretzel Logic
Chickelit: "Says you and you alone."
To be fair, one man (or person), can change the world.
So, what to do? Take caveat-boy ("AFAIK") R&B...
Ha ha ha. So now you have a problem with caveats.
I cue your hero:
" When Mexico sends its people, they're not sending their best. They're bringing drugs. They're bringing crime. They're rapists. And some I assume are good people." (Emphasis most intentionally added).
See, the beauty of your running a guy with less control over his mouth than a leaky sewage drainpipe, is that it shows you no longer have any standards worth holding others to.
So revel in how much more precise my caveats are than Captain Orange Hair's.
Rhythm and Balls: "So the real question, Drago the Paranoid, is exactly how many lines of text DO you need to devote to convincing yourself (and not many others) of this fear you have that Latino Americans will create a racial hierarchy of power in American institutions that reduces all us poor white folk to custodial work and farmhands at less than minimum wage for fear of being caught while overstepping the bounds of our clearly inferior governmental status here in America."
LOL
R&B's is one of the best at this.
R&B's: "So the real question, Drago the Paranoid, is exactly how many lines of text DO you need to devote to convincing yourself (and not many others) of this fear you have that Latino Americans will:
1. create a racial hierarchy of power in American institutions that...
2. reduces all us poor white folk to custodial work and farmhands...
3. at less than minimum wage...
4. for fear of being caught while...
5. overstepping the bounds of our clearly inferior governmental status..
6. here in America."
R&B's is my first choice for creating diplomatic agreements for our side.
Trump should hire him! He could make such great deals!!
R&B's: "Ha ha ha. So now you have a problem with caveats."
Only if they have not been properly marinated and/or undercooked, AFAIK.
if la raza is an organization then who is its leader? how does one become a member?
Chickelit: "Says you and you alone."
To be fair, one man (or person), can change the world.
And that person, in this instance, would be "chickelit," if only he were decent enough to accept that he's not too good to apologize when he's wrong and makes wrong accusations.
"Latino Americans will create a racial hierarchy of power in American institutions"
They already have. Not the United States, but throughout the Americas, there's without question a racial hierarchy of power. Liberation theology began, after all, as a response against class and racial bias in Central and South America.
R&B's: "And that person, in this instance, would be "chickelit," if only he were decent enough to accept that he's not too good to apologize when he's wrong and makes wrong accusations."
What if he were willing to admit he was wrong, but did not specify that his "wrong-ness" involved wrong allegations?
Will you at least meet me halfway?
Adderall comes in different strengths, Drago. Ask your doctor which one is right for you. Dosage adjustments are always possible, especially depending upon how incoherent and implacable you become. Go and show your doctor your posts on this thread (esp. the beauty at 9:48) and see what can be done for your tortured mind.
vicari valdez: "if la raza is an organization then who is its leader? how does one become a member?"
Filed under: questions no one is asking.
R&B's: "(esp. the beauty at 9:48)"
For the record, that posting was simply a breakdown of your post.
Take from that what you will.
um...what? i just asked lol.
Now I must go as I have a lunch meeting to attend.
if la raza is an organization then who is its leader? how does one become a member?
It's like the Tea Party. Nobody's the leader. Maybe we should spy on it or sick [sic] the IRS on them!
vicari valdez: "um...what? i just asked lol."
You do have a point.
it would seem to be something you're born into, unlike the tea party.
"Latino Americans will create a racial hierarchy of power in American institutions"
They already have. Not the United States, but throughout the Americas,
Any other goalposts you'd like to change Mr. O or is conflating the U.S. with the entire western hemisphere sufficient for today?
My apologies for going aggressively if you simply intended to make an unrelated point. But you see, I'm dealing with a crazed maniac in Drago the Dastardly and it's making the job of stating a simple point very challenging. Simple points are not as convoluted, error-prone and given to his wild-eyed ADHD treatment as he would like.
And yet, it's still important to pound the truth into his paranoid, anti-Latino head. Or at least into the thread.
vicari valdez: "it would seem to be something you're born into, unlike the tea party."
Another good point.
For the record, that posting was simply a breakdown of your post.
Take from that what you will.
Well you did certainly seem to exhibit a breakdown, of sorts.
R&B: "Drago the Dastardly"
Good stuff.
vicari valdez said...if la raza is an organization then who is its leader? how does one become a member?
The really weird thing is that its name is on organizations. It has a history. And I think you have to have certain cultural/ethnic bone fides to belong.
you mean like 'african american?'
"it would seem to be something you're born into, unlike the tea party."
Another good point.
Apparently these people agree.
Your party is going down in flames. Please bring some marshmallows to the bonfire.
vicari valdez said...you mean like 'african american?'
Sort of. But more like "Black Panther" because of the political involvement. I can perhaps think of others less malignant.
but the black panthers was an actual organization.
if la raza is an organization then who is its leader? how does one become a member?
Well..there's the La Raza Chicago street gang. You become a member by being a Mexican and then being jumped in.
Then there's La Raza Unida which is a prison gang. You become member by being sentenced to prison, being Latino, and then being jumped in.
There is a political party called the Raza Unida Party. You get in by being Mexican-American and hating the Anglo dominated Democratic Party.
Then there's the National Council of La Raza that most people mean when they say "La Raza". I can't find how to become a member..but I bet being Latino helps....
vicari valdez said...you mean like 'african american?'
"African American" is a poor comparison to La Raza. "Hispanic" is a better parallel to "African American.
Sort of. But more like "Black Panther" because of the political involvement. I can perhaps think of others less malignant.
It's good to know what you spend your time thinking of, stupid white man.
Blogger Gahrie said...
if la raza is an organization then who is its leader? how does one become a member?
Well..there's the La Raza Chicago street gang. You become a member by being a Mexican and then being jumped in.
Then there's La Raza Unida which is a prison gang. You become member by being sentenced to prison, being Latino, and then being jumped in.
There is a political party called the Raza Unida Party. You get in by being Mexican-American and hating the Anglo dominated Democratic Party.
Then there's the National Council of La Raza that most people mean when they say "La Raza". I can't find how to become a member..but I bet being Latino helps....
6/7/16, 10:05 PM
you just named four distinct organizations.
you just named four distinct organizations.
Brilliant! You can count!
Now...go back and read what I wrote again slowly...here in fact I'll re-post it for you...
Then there's the National Council of La Raza that most people mean when they say "La Raza"
It's good to know what you spend your time thinking of, stupid white man.
It's not really what I spend time thinking about. I'm just trying to answer stupid questions.
I want to switch over to TV coverage of the CA election now. I may be back.
Blogger chickelit said...
vicari valdez said...you mean like 'african american?'
"African American" is a poor comparison to La Raza. "Hispanic" is a better parallel to "African American.
6/7/16, 10:06 PM
why?
Blogger Gahrie said...
Then there's the National Council of La Raza that most people mean when they say "La Raza"
6/7/16, 10:11 PM
that's actually not true: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_Raza
in fact when i asked you who the leader of 'la raza' is you didn't say janet murguÃa, who happens to be the leader of the NCLR. instead you named four different organizations that have 'la raza' in the title.
Oh..you're right! You caught me you little devil....now what the hell do you think it means? What point are you trying to make?
That there is no La Raza?
That Hispanics can't be racist?
That I am racist?
That I am simply to stupid to understand what they mean when they wave Mexican flags, burn American flags, demand the southwest be returned to Mexico and beat up White people for exercising their first Amendment rights?
you're being really defensive. i'm arguing semantics. there are people in this thread who refer to 'la raza' as if it were an organization and it's not. that's all.
there are people in this thread who refer to 'la raza' as if it were an organization and it's not. that's all.
You're right...it is a movement, made up of many organizations, all dedicated to subverting the United States in favor of some mythical Aztlan, or Mexico where their true allegiance lies.
vicari valdez: "you're being really defensive. i'm arguing semantics. there are people in this thread who refer to 'la raza' as if it were an organization and it's not. that's all."
Early on this thread I referred to it as a movement. I don't care what the different organizations, affiliated groups, non-affiliated groups, lone wolfs, supporters, those providing rhetorical support, etc. along wish to call themselves. It is irrelevant and only detracts from the overarching theme.
I hoped that Bernie would do better in CA. But good for him to keep plugging. And I hope he never endorses Hillary.
Gahrie said...
all dedicated to subverting the United States in favor of some mythical Aztlan, or Mexico where their true allegiance lies.
6/7/16, 10:45 PM
i wouldn't say 'all' because the term means different things to different people.
The [class] diversity advocates (e.g. "Hispanic-American") are trapped in a web that they carefully spun over several decades.
Something I have not seen addressed is whether Curiel is a Mexican citizen or national.
He is definitely an American citizen by virtue of being born in Ohio. Both his parents were immigrants from Mexico and Mexican citizens. The Mexican Constitution provides that anyone born anywhere in the world to Mexican citizen parents is a Mexican citizen.
So it would appear that Curiel at least used to be a Mexican citizen. He might have lost the citizenship by formally and legally renouncing it. That is what Cruz did when his Canadian citizenship came to light last year. Did Curiel ever do that?
Mexican citizenship can be lost by taking a job with a foreign government. As Curiel did when he became a judge. Did Mexico rescind his citizenship for that?
Mexico also recognizes Mexican nationality which is similar to but different from Mexican citizenship. Sort of like our distinction with American Samoans who are "Nationals of the US but not citizens of the US" (Quoting immigration act from memory)
Nationality is apparently irrevocable. Can't be revoked either by Mexico or by the national. So it would seem that legally Curiel is a Mexican national.
Has he ever exercised his rights as either citizen or national? For example, has he ever had a Mexican passport?
John Henry
i wouldn't say 'all' because the term means different things to different people.
OK..your turn...name an organization called 'la raza" that isn't explicitly racist.
Drago said...
Early on this thread I referred to it as a movement.
6/7/16, 10:56 PM
i wouldn't consider it anymore of a movement than being italian-american.
i know mexicans who aren't 'explicitly racist.'
How does Trump University differ from the typical American law school?
TU is accused of promising people skills that will be valuable in the job market. Ditto law schools. How many TU "graduates" are working in the field they trained in at TU? How many law school graduates?
TU cost students a lot of money. I'm not clear how much but I think in the $10-20,000 range. If students borrowed the money, in a worst case scenario it is dischargable in bankruptcy.
Law schools cost a Hell of a lot more money. $50-60m and up. These folks finish law school with tens of thousands of debt (NOT dischargeable in bankruptcy) and poor prospects for a job in which they trained.
TU is alleged to have provided false info on job prospects to get folks to sign up. Law schools, bot individually and as an industry do this routinely.
It might be interesting to do a survey of folks 5 years after completion and see which groups is happier with their experience.
John Henry
If all these ridiculous hyphenated labels persist, I shall have to start calling myself an 'Anglo-American', instead of 'White' or 'Caucasian'. Even though some of my ancestors literally came over on the Mayflower and most were here before 1700, I shall start flying the Union Jack instead of the American flag. After all, Great Britain is my heritage and I must display it proudly. :-\ Damn! Can't we just be Americans???
N.N., and using the courts, labor unions, and govt/public $ along the way. Too tired to do a synopsis, but here are few leads:
See Page ii, La Raza Central Legal Center, inc.: https://www.slideshare.net/mobile/abogadobryan/evidence-of-obama-administration-illegal-detention-and-deportation-of-children-exhibits-1418
http://ilaboral.org (Instituto Laboral de la Raza)
http://ilaboral.org/network/index.html
http://sfilen.org/services/la-raza-centro-legal/
http://whoiscoming.info (interesting connections, no? Big Labor, Immigration, and "Green" orgs.)
https://amjolaw.com/2016/05/19/1000-reasons-why-obama-belongs-in-jail-for-illegally-detaining-and-deporting-children/
And one of them, it may have ilaboral.org, gets govt $ from the DOE, IOLTA and the Equal Access Fund. Also financial support via donations from the Cal Bar, Google, wineries, etc.
Anyhow, tending to think Drago properly categorized it as a movement. A very well connected and funded movement intimately involved with those progressives that wish to destroy the rule of law in this country and install what I do not know--a thugocracy? However, in semi-support of Vicari V.'s comments (in that anything with "La Raza" in it does not mean they are directly/legally connected) I still think it is the Marxist white progressives that are pushing all this and simply using groups such as La Raza to achieve their goals, and not Hispanics in some reconquista effort.
i wouldn't consider it anymore of a movement than being italian-american.
La Cosa Nostra is a great analogy! It's an organization but nobody "belongs" to omertà . But, you can be born into it.
vicari valdez said...
i know mexicans who aren't 'explicitly racist.'
don't we all?
don't we all?...
To clarify, aren't we talking about the ones who explicitly are or may be racist?
i know mexicans who aren't 'explicitly racist.'
So do I..I'm related to some of them. That wasn't the question. The question was:
.name an organization called 'la raza" that isn't explicitly racist.
you should ask them what they think 'la raza' means.
you should ask them what they think 'la raza' means.
Cesar Chavez said:
I hear more and more Mexicans talking about la raza—to build up their pride. Some people don’t look at it as racism, but when you say ‘La Raza,’ you are saying an anti-gringo thing, and it won’t stop there. Today it’s anti-gringo, tomorrow it will be anti-Negro. We had a stupid guy who just wanted to play politics with the union, and he began to whip up La Raza against the white volunteers, and even had some of the farm workers and the pickets and the organizers hung up on La Raza. So I took him on. These things have to be met head on. On discrimination, I don’t even give the members the privilege of a vote, and I’m not ashamed of it. No, the whole business of discrimination can’t exist here. So often, these days, the leaders are afraid, and even though they feel strongly against racism, they will not speak out against it. If the leadership is united, then it can say, ‘All right, if you’re going to do things that way, then you’ll have to get rid of us.’ You have to speak out immediately, the first time.
Meeeea:
Unfortunately, the meaning is taken in the context of State-established [class] diversity policies. This means that individuals and organizations that engage in aiding and abetting mass exodus (e.g. illegal immigration, refugee crises) from second and third-world nations are classified under their own choice of semantics: [class] diversity.
I would be less concerned about conflicts of interest if advocates like this judge did not exhibit [class] diversity prejudice in their public life. Unfortunately, he has embraced [class] diversity, and so his judgment is considered suspect. And more so if his rulings have changed since the announcement of pro-native and national responsibility positions.
The "la raza" semantic playground is a distraction from the issues.
N.N. "The "la raza" semantic playground is a distraction from the issues." Totally agree.
I had just decided not to post the below, very tired (but want to see more on the CA primaries) then saw your comment so I'll go ahead, as I'm clumsily trying to say something similar to your comment.
vicari valdez said...
"i know mexicans who aren't 'explicitly racist.'"
Well no shit. I'd say most Americans of anyrace are not racist.
The concern in the case at hand has more to do with people of the Church of progressivism, of which La Raza has been aligned, and apparently the plaintiff's firm is in some way as well, and to the fundamentalists of the C.O.P., harming Trump (or any conservative) is reflexive.
Meeeea:
The issues are defined by a reconciliation of moral and natural imperatives. The principles should ideally be internally, externally, and mutually consistent. Everything else is either anecdotal, projection, or entrapment.
That said, it's not easy being human. Good luck to us.
very tired
What doesn't break you may make you stronger... don't underestimate our basic need for regenerative rest periods (e.g. sleep).
this is typical trump speak and he has done it all along. Can the media not see the pattern?: "I heard or other people say" this dastardly thing about so and so. That is the first step, then "I hope it is not true" "I would never say it" . then later he says it. Then disavows it. He is a CREEP. Our choice is Sophies choice. I will not choose.
Yes, Hillary is far from perfect ... but its gonna be fun the next (5) mos. hearing Rep politicians/pundits and Althouse cons trying to rationalize/apologize for Trump. Indeed, trying to defend the indefensible!
but, but, but Hillary, Hillary, Hillary ...
>
Closing as I opened ~ Trump's in trouble!
I feel kind of sorry for Ryan and the rest of the GOP leaders. They have to endorse Trump or suffer the consequences from disgruntled Trump supporters yet at the same time they apparently feel that they must condemn Trump’s “racist remarks,” racist as in created and defined by the MSM/Democrats/neverTrumpers.
None of them have Trump’s strength of resolve; none of them have Trump’s ability to deal with and deflect the MSM’s false narratives. Only Trump has the chops to fight that fight.
They woke up late to the reality of Trump’s popularity with the voters. They must not have believed their eyes as they watched Trump destroy opponent after opponent during the primaries. How could he DO that! They, along with the MSM/Democrats, were solidly all against Trump the entire time and Trump still won!? Unheard of! Unbelievable!
For awhile they entertained the idea of campaigning against their own party’s nominee for POTUS but THAT was quickly dropped by most of them, perhaps because a significant number of their constituents expressed unhappiness at such disloyalty. Or perhaps they simply realized that they will need President Trump more than he will need them.
Perhaps they are ineffective against the MSM because in the past they have assumed and even embraced the MSM’s ideological dictates and definitions when they thought it benefited them. If you cheer the MSM firing squads and snipers from the sidelines, sometimes even joining them, what happens when you find the guns all pointed at you? We are about to find out.
Since we live in the era of self-definition. Why can't a person simply define him or her self not to be a racist? If we can have men who menstruate, why can't we have non-racists that believe Mexicans can't be real Americans?
My logic is unassailable.
twisting in knots to defend a know-nothing blowhard that rips off his fellow Americans...so proud.
Machine. That's no way to talk about Hillary.
Let's replace La Raza with Nazi and see if that scans.
Finally he stops shooting himself in the foot. But the Dem-media industrial complex will not let go of this.
No, they won't. So every response should tie in Hillary.
"Donald, do you think Hispanics cannot be good judges"
"They can be. My opponent, though, thinks Hispanics cannot be raped by her husband, though"
In the end, Trump doesn't have to win by driving out his voters. He can win by simply burying Hillary under the sleaze she lives in. Worked great for Reid for years.
It is a fair to ask whether a second generation Mexican-American who retains cultural ties to his parent's native country might be biased against Trump, just as it is reasonable to ask if the white cops preying on the black population in Ferguson were motivated by racial animus.
One problem: The Dems and the press (I know, I repeat myself) are saying it is not fair.
So, is it true that THe judge belongs to an organization that threatened to boycott Trump because of his statement about mexicans and rapists?
It should also be noted that the judge's membership was an unknown quantity, by and large, until this. Trump has a legitimate claim of unfair treatment by the judge due to the group.
vicari valdez: i wouldn't consider it anymore of a movement than being italian-american.
Make America Italy Again!
Oh, lots of people have a great deal invested in pretending that modern identity-politics (particularly anything "La Raza") is just like the Italians, or the Irish, or the whomever, doing their ethnic thing now or back in the day.
Unfortunately, lots of Americans have been observing what's going on around them in the last few decades and and are drawing different conclusions about the aptness of the analogy.
Our choice is Sophies choice. I will not choose.
hey, we have more than two parties! Think outside the box. This is the year for it!
Not all people of Mexican descent are on board for this "La Raza" business. They see it as another con game or power grab that, being from Mexico, they've been on the wrong end of time and again. But, people like Paul Ryan need to learn Spanish because what is said in Spanish and what is said in English are two different things. The motto of La Raza is Por La Raza todos, fuera La Raza nada. Which can be construed to mean, "For us, everything. For everyone else, nothing." I think Trump should stick to his guns. There are a lot of people in this country who have been on the wrong end of affirmative action all their working lives. There have been no odd-even days as there were in the days of gas rationing. And these people are thinking, what the hell did I do to deserve this?
Why is it that liberals are so willing to tolerate minority racism? It is evident to me that Obama agreed with everything Reverend Wright said in his church, which was straight out of the Muhammad Speaks the newspaper of the Nation of Islam. He gets a pass from the media for it, while Trump is excoriated for rightly pointing out that the judge in his case belongs to an organization that has a stated (in Spanish) reverse racist bias. Frankly, I think this is going to backfire on jerks like Ryan and Hugh Hewitt who don't know what they don't know.
I find it amusing that the usual suspects are outraged and tie themselves in knots defending a racist organization as not racist.
Sort of like the Klan doing community outreach in Watts.
Sort of like the Klan doing community outreach in Watts.
They tried to "adopt a highway" here (Georgia) and were pelted with rocks from the anti-racists.
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