Althouse: "We were just excited to be at a game and let the audience see us and hear us and let us know that we’re sports fans too, and we’re normal guys."

May 23, 2016

"We were just excited to be at a game and let the audience see us and hear us and let us know that we’re sports fans too, and we’re normal guys."

"And then a woman sings over us, and it was mortifying."/"I just felt this dread come over me because I was so embarrassed... Some of us started to sing along. After that, we just stood there. We thought they would ask us to sing, but they just asked us to leave the field."/"I can understand how that happens, but what I didn’t understand why they didn’t stop the track or apologize."

From "Padres Apologize To San Diego Gay Men's Chorus For Anthem Screwup, Fire Contractor Responsible."

95 comments:

YoungHegelian said...: I'm sorry, there's a back story to this that we're not hearing about. Well, yet, at least.

My guess -- some muckety-muck wanted to go all multi-culti & rainbow-flaggy, & there was a large contingent in the club and/or the players who were just "can we just cut the Gay Pride Day parade crap & just play ball?". Well, the muckety-muck must have won the argument, but not the hearts & minds, because some guy was so pissed off that he decided to lose his job over it.

I feel sorry for the poor Gay Men's Chorus out there on the field, though. It sucks to be publicly humiliated when you're just collateral damage in someone else's pissing contest,; 5/23/16, 11:46 AM
Paddy O said...: How do we know it was a woman's voice?; 5/23/16, 11:58 AM
Wilbur said...: I read the article ... It said somebody accidently played the wrong prerecorded version of the anthem. They were supposed to play the prerecorded version by the chorus. Occam's razor applies.

You've gotta' be actively looking for slights if you feel "humiliated" over this.

The best prerecorded anthem version was Jerry Vale's. They played it before Cardinal games for a few years back in the 70s (80s?); 5/23/16, 12:02 PM
YoungHegelian said...: @Wilbur,

You've gotta' be actively looking for slights if you feel "humiliated" over this.

Then, why didn't they just stop the music, apologize, & play the correct recording? Nope, not buying it. A deliberate slight.; 5/23/16, 12:09 PM
amielalune said...: Before now, did anyone think there were no gay sports fans? Anyone? Anyone? Bueller? Some people are WAY too worried about what "other people" think.; 5/23/16, 12:10 PM
Ann Althouse said...: I recommend listening to the recording at the link. It seems to me that it was a deliberate effort to embarrass these men.

And whoever the singer was... I hate that kind of anthem singing. So maudlin and tasteless. A male chorus is much more appropriate.; 5/23/16, 12:14 PM
Michael K said...: "How do we know it was a woman's voice?"

Maybe it was a woman who identified as a gay man ?; 5/23/16, 12:16 PM
Wilbur said...: @YH
"Then, why didn't they just stop the music, apologize, & play the correct recording?"

I can think of several reasons, without really trying. For example, that the right music disc was left in somebody's office. Or at home. Or that someone made the snap judgment not to call even more attention to the goofup by stopping the music, finding someone with access to the PA system, then explaining to them what happened so that person can then explain it to the crowd.; 5/23/16, 12:20 PM
traditionalguy said...: But if it was a Trans Gender female(?) voice on the tape, that beats a gay mans Chorus. And rock breaks scissors and paper covers rock and scissors cuts paper...being outraged these days is complicated.; 5/23/16, 12:24 PM
David said...: "I hate that kind of anthem singing."

Diva singing is the worst. And Diva singing the anthem is worst of the worst.

But how does this prove it was deliberate?

If it was the Padres should be firing some people.; 5/23/16, 12:25 PM
Titus said...: I am sorry but I thought that was hilarious.; 5/23/16, 12:27 PM
Titus said...: I have a question....the weather is beautiful today and a large % of Asian women are using umbrellas. I noticed this before, why?

thanks and have a great day!; 5/23/16, 12:30 PM
Wilbur said...: Umbrellas are used as sun shades in many cultures.; 5/23/16, 12:32 PM
Michael K said...: "a large % of Asian women are using umbrellas."

Avoiding suntan. Very un-PC. Very common in Asian neighborhoods.; 5/23/16, 12:34 PM
Henry said...: There's a very long history of anthem screwups.

Here's a lady that needed a prerecorded version.; 5/23/16, 12:37 PM
Jimmy said...: wow, such oppression and cruelty. "OMFG". here in America, it is sooooo difficult for gay men.
I think people are sick of the government, and the left, picking winning tribes and loser tribes. Gay men are one of the officially sanctioned government tribes. Was it rude, or insensitive? Probably. Who cares? It is karma.
Anyway, if we have to have an official American Anthem singer, then lets just play recordings of whitney houston's 1991 version. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_lCmBvYMRs; 5/23/16, 12:40 PM
Levi Starks said...: Why do we have segregated choirs based on sexual preference?; 5/23/16, 12:40 PM
Unknown said...: My sympathy meter for poor aggrieved gays is about zero. They are the political and cultural elite now; so humiliating them should be viewed as a positive thing. Positively American, in fact, to spit in the face of the King. Or in this case Queens, right? In any case, since the gays are so clearly soooooo superior and better than us regular plebes (they get rights the rest of us don't), to see some humiliated is a good thing.

A vain attempt to keep them humble, no doubt. Still, a valiant effort.; 5/23/16, 12:43 PM
Just asking questions (Jaq) said...: So when do the men who really love to fuck women get a slot? I have nothing against gay men,but can't we get a break? I would feel the same way if Coke commercials were product placed into every aspect of our lives continually.; 5/23/16, 12:47 PM
JAORE said...: Wilbur, I believe you mean Hanlon's Razor....

Could be a slight. Could be abject stupidity. There is a lot of that going around.

Like said above there may be many links in the chain to firing up the recording. For example the last link may be some minimum wage person whose only task is sit in some office in the bowels of the stadium and to hit "play" at the right time. He did it perfectly. He heard the music and it began at the proper moment. Success! Unfortunately he was way too far down the food chain to 1) know about the gay choir or 2) be in a location where he could see a group of men standing around while a solo woman's voice played.

Link #4 may be in the stadium and know how screwed up this all is. But he's on the far end of the field. By the time he gets to link #1 the anthem is over and he doesn't have the right disc anyway. And link 4 doesn't have the authority to make announcements/apologies or (heaven forbid) restart the anthem after the ump calls, "Play ball!....

But, yeah, no doubt at ALL that it was an intentional slight because the choir is gay. Nope, nope, nope.; 5/23/16, 12:48 PM
Curious George said...: So the San Diego Gay Men’s Chorus is all butthurt.; 5/23/16, 12:50 PM
traditionalguy said...: The men have a point. The National Anthem celebrates men's courage fighting the Bloody British Empire's re-conquista attempts here from 1812- 1815. They stopped the British Fleet from moving past Baltimore to land troops for the capture of Philadelphia. The Congreve Rockets red glare were the newest British weapon designed to scare enemy soldiers. They did not work at Baltimore's Fort McHenry or at Jackson's works a mile south of New Orleans.

At New Orleans 5,000 of the best veteran British forces that were fresh from defeating Napoleon met Jackson's 2,000 volunteer farmer militiamen, and some regulars, and a crew of Caribbean Pirates that were experts at shooting cannon, and in half an hour 4000 British died while 7 of Jackson's forces died. Those are Trump like winning numbers worth of a song or two.; 5/23/16, 12:51 PM
n.n said...: Transgender/homosexuals are victims of progress for transgender/crossovers. There is a clear priority in the exploitation of the transgender spectrum disorder. Transgender/homosexual is now classified at the black level. It is no longer a compelling social/political interest and source of strategic leverage.; 5/23/16, 12:52 PM
Just asking questions (Jaq) said...: What is the word for "sick of a propaganda campaign"? Oh yeah, 'homophobe.'; 5/23/16, 12:52 PM
Static Ping said...: I've never seen a national anthem get flubbed in any way and then started over. There is not a lot of time between the anthem and "Play Ball!" so it needs to go right the first time. That is why they use pre-recorded anthems to avoid the artist messing up or the audio equipment malfunctioning. Once it went wrong, they were committed.

That said, this level of incompetence, assuming it was not malicious, should get someone fired. As I understand it, the firing is already completed.; 5/23/16, 12:58 PM
Ignorance is Bliss said...: We were just excited to be at a game and let the audience see us and hear us and let us know that we’re sports fans too, and we’re normal guys.

Here's a hint: If you want sports fans to see you as normal guys, don't join a freakin' chorus.; 5/23/16, 1:04 PM
Titus said...: I am a gay. I don't like gay choruses-I have never heard one, but I know I don't like them.

I wish there were close up's of the queens faces when that tape started. U know there were tons of eye rolling, and looking at each other aghast at what was taking place. I think this is so funny-poor things.

I want to see close up of the fags.

I have seen pictures of gay men's chorus and they tend to be fat....probably part of the reason I don't want to see or hear one...also I am sure the music is hideous and the choreography unsettling and bad...lots of big open mouths-gross.; 5/23/16, 1:08 PM
The Bergall said...: Congratulations. Singing the American Anthem is now politicized........

Mission Accomplished.; 5/23/16, 1:13 PM
jr565 said...: if you are embarassed that it happen, you have my sympathy. It sucks. I feel terrible. maybe invite them back again to sing next week.
If the want to charge someone with a hate crime because of the slight, they better have proof that it was a deliberate slight. Otherwise, their organization should be barred from ever being able to do the national anthem at any stadium ever again.
This strikes me a lot like the gay pastor who tried to sue Whole Foods because they gave him a cake that supposedly had a gay slur on it. Prove it. YOu better hope you can. Otherwise, your name should be run through the mud.; 5/23/16, 1:20 PM
CStanley said...: Ok not trying to be mean, but why do they call it a "Gay Men's Chorus"? Seems either redundant or exclusionary.; 5/23/16, 1:21 PM
Hagar said...: Parasols, Titus. The word is parasol.; 5/23/16, 1:27 PM
Etienne said...: pre-recorded music is so gay...; 5/23/16, 1:29 PM
Titus said...: Parasols-lol...; 5/23/16, 1:30 PM
Sydney said...: I always wonder about the idea of a gay chorus, too. Why? There isn't anything special about the voices, like there is in a men's chorus or a women's chorus. Why not a bicyclist chorus? Would I go see a bicyclist chorus? Probably not. I can't see the distinction in a gay men's chorus. I would see a men's chorus. I do not care what they do in their spare time.; 5/23/16, 1:35 PM
damikesc said...: I'm trying to figure out why this is a story at all.; 5/23/16, 1:43 PM
damikesc said...: Can we soon demand heterosexual only plays and musicals?; 5/23/16, 1:57 PM
Dude1394 said...: Just a bunch of guys, who cares?; 5/23/16, 1:58 PM
mockturtle said...: Former Padres player and current MLB vice president of social responsibility and inclusion Billy Bean

'MLB vice president of social responsibility and inclusion'??? Seriously????; 5/23/16, 2:03 PM
Big Mike said...: Any other chorus and they'd have received an apology but the contractor would have kept his job. The Padres went further and fired the contractor because gays are such sensitive, delicate things.; 5/23/16, 2:05 PM
Comanche Voter said...: You wanna know embarassed and humiliated while the National Anthem is being sung at a Padres game. A few years back that alleged comedian Rosie O'Donnell was somehow invited to sing the National Anthem before a Padres game. She forgot the words (or more probably never had learned them) so when she ran out of words, she simply grabbed her crotch.

Rosie is beyond embarassment; the only folks humiliated in the stadium that day were the decent fans who had to watch a fat bag of goo play female pocket pool.; 5/23/16, 2:14 PM
Static Ping said...: mockturtle: Yeah, Billy Bean is baseball's SJW-in-chief. He is the only major league professional baseball who is out of the closet, though after his very modest career was over. If he wasn't gay, no one would remember him. The only other verified gay major leaguer is Glenn Burke, who died in 1995. (Glenn had significantly more talent than Billy though it never translated on the field. He also invented the high five, apparently.); 5/23/16, 2:17 PM
Static Ping said...: Comanche, that was Roseanne Barr, not Rosie O'Donnell. Rosie is not a pleasant person, but she does have more class than that.; 5/23/16, 2:18 PM
I'm Full of Soup said...: This complaint says it all....sob sob sniff sniff "we are just regular guys too".; 5/23/16, 2:22 PM
jr565 said...: "Ok not trying to be mean, but why do they call it a "Gay Men's Chorus"? Seems either redundant or exclusionary"

could you so discriminate? Isn't that discrminating on the basis of sexual orientation?; 5/23/16, 2:29 PM
Jason said...: I was sympathetic until I read that these assholes called for investigation into a "hate crime."

Fuck them.

"You sing like a girl" is the obvious joke at hand and would work whether they were a gay men's chorus or just a men, not otherwise specified chorus.

If these mincing ninnies have their panties in a bunch in outrage over that then they deserve to be humiliated.

Come on, Derek, my manboy. We're leaving.; 5/23/16, 2:46 PM
mccullough said...: It was a great game. Solarte came up as a pinch hitter in the bottom of the 11th and drew a bases loaded walk to win 3-2. The walk off
BB for an RBI; 5/23/16, 2:48 PM
n.n said...: This incident is reminiscent of the black hole controversy exploited by the NAACP several years ago, and the transgender/homosexual initiated abortions that preceded it (e.g. drug, money, ego-related couplet conflicts). With the political/social ascendancy of the transgender/crossover faction, there is a renewed need to sustain other classes of transgender spectrum disorders, and their non-profit-eers; but generally all factions of the State-established Pro-choice orthodoxy. Female chauvinists will notice the bigotry (i.e. sanctimonious hypocrisy) of their leaders and initially resist, but will ultimately comply with the rulings of the Church and sacrifice women, girls, grandmas, and daughters to retain their political, social, and economic fortunes.; 5/23/16, 2:50 PM
Franklin said...: "Everything they do is so dramatic and flamboyant. It just makes me want to set myself on fire." - Lucille Bluth; 5/23/16, 2:52 PM
Bay Area Guy said...: If you put aside the "culture wars," it's simply rude behavior to invite a group to sing the National Anthem, and then play a tape over them. Probably, it was a mistake -- so an apology is in order, and another chance to sing.

Shouldn't be another skirmish in the culture wars.; 5/23/16, 2:52 PM
Anthony said...: >>I always wonder about the idea of a gay chorus, too. Why?

I was under the impression they were all gay.; 5/23/16, 3:02 PM
mtrobertslaw said...: Well, it could have been worse. Imagine what would have happened if they had mistakenly played Froggy the Gremlin's version of the National Anthem.; 5/23/16, 3:30 PM
HoodlumDoodlum said...: Ann Althouse said... It seems to me that it was a deliberate effort to embarrass these men.

Obviously. It was obviously deliberate. The targets are gay, and expressly so, therefore the only conclusion is that the Padres as an organization engaged in a hateful, deliberate attack on a gay group as a means of expressing their anti-LGBTQ feelings and agenda. Professional baseball itself participated, and heads must roll.

Oh, they fired the contractor? Nice try, but we're not buying it. The organization should pay a fine. The players should wear a rainbow pin or rainbow flag patch or something for the rest of the season. The ball club should create a gay chorus night (complete with organ music/accompaniment, etc) and devote half the proceeds from that night's ticket sales to an LDBT awareness charity. Maybe then I'll believe they're sorry.

Otherwise? Ban the team from further competition. They're an interstate corporate organization. State AGs should start investigating. How many hate crimes have occurred at that ball park this year? How many anti-gay slurs have been shouted? How can we, as a nation, allow such hate to continue? Shut 'em down.; 5/23/16, 3:36 PM
Ron Winkleheimer said...: Former Padres player and current MLB vice president of social responsibility and inclusion Billy Bean

In the Soviet Union they were way more honest and Billy's title would have been "political officer."

And whoever the singer was... I hate that kind of anthem singing. So maudlin and tasteless. A male chorus is much more appropriate.

Now you are just trolling.; 5/23/16, 3:38 PM
FullMoon said...: Re: all men's chorus' being gay. Better to call it a "group", like Four Seasons, Four Tops, Temptations, Earth Wind and Fire etc.; 5/23/16, 3:43 PM
campy said...: HoodlumDoodlum's post broke my finely tuned sarcasm detector.; 5/23/16, 3:45 PM
Etienne said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 5/23/16, 3:46 PM
robother said...: Who would put a fire contractor in charge of the national anthem/PA system? Fire contractors should stick to what they know best and leave the singing and PA system to the Harry Carray's of the baseball world.; 5/23/16, 3:49 PM
Bill said...: I think it was a blunder, and that the 'crime' was not stopping the recording and playing the right tape as soon as possible.

If it had been a women's chorus that was played, I'd have been suspicious.

Here's the right way to sing the National Anthem at a ballgame. No melisma, no histrionics, no self-aggrandizing nonsense.; 5/23/16, 3:50 PM
richlb said...: I'm not an insider when it comes to sports facilities management, but what sort of "third party" operates the PA system to play the national anthem? I would think someone maintains the system, but what employee other than someone working for the team or ballpark gets to push PLAY?; 5/23/16, 3:52 PM
n.n said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 5/23/16, 3:58 PM
n.n said...: A chorus of voices used to be a time for gay socialization and celebration, but assumed a queer orientation with semantic appropriation by the male transgender/homosexual movement.; 5/23/16, 3:59 PM
Fred Drinkwater said...: Ah! The Padres fired the contractor who messed up!
I totally misread "Fire Contractor Responsible" in the subhead, as "Company hired to deal with fires caused this screw-up".
I'm so relieved. I thought this was another grammar post.; 5/23/16, 3:59 PM
Fred Drinkwater said...: Oh, man. I swear I did not see robother's post before I posted.
Still, first to file and all that.; 5/23/16, 4:01 PM
n.n said...: it was a mistake -- so an apology is in order

A characteristically traditional response. Where is the profit and power in that?; 5/23/16, 4:02 PM
SteveR said...: In all situations where the National Anthem is to be sung, then it should be live, not backed up by a recording. If you can't pull it off (no pun intended) then dispense with the presentation of live bodies lip syncing and just play the recording.; 5/23/16, 4:11 PM
MadisonMan said...: I agree that the woman who was singing was wretched. Off key on the notes, and way too much into drama while singing. Probably wanted to make the song her own, or something, but if you want to do that, don't sing flat notes.

If a man's voice singing the Anthem had been played by mistake instead, would this conversation be taking place?; 5/23/16, 4:12 PM
MadisonMan said...: (Written as someone who has sung the Anthem, live, and at 7:45 in the morning!! It ain't easy); 5/23/16, 4:12 PM
Sofa King said...: I think my favorite renditions are always the barbershop style, like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IvecxGO-Fl8

Don't know if that's what this group was or not.; 5/23/16, 4:14 PM
Jason said...: If these guys needed to lip synch the national anthem then to hell with them.; 5/23/16, 4:16 PM
rcocean said...: If only the Padres had given them a cake with "We hate Fags" on it.

Then there'd be an opportunity for some real money.

This, not so much.; 5/23/16, 4:17 PM
rcocean said...: Just remember Gays, if you ever get offended make sure it involves a Cake, or at least a cupcake.

Otherwise, no $$$.; 5/23/16, 4:18 PM
boycat said...: In other news, the San Diego Men's Chorus was unavailable.; 5/23/16, 4:34 PM
Wilbur said...: I'm not thrilled with the whole practice of singing the National Anthem before every game, match or event in this country.

It should be saved for special occasions. Familiarity breeds not always contempt, but ennui.; 5/23/16, 4:40 PM
M Jordan said...: Wait a second ... They were going to lip-sync it?

Case closed. They lose.; 5/23/16, 4:43 PM
Lem Vibe Bandit said...: The screwup could work to their advantage.

They could start a gofundme drive to sing at every major league baseball park in the country.

I'm sure baseball would only be too happy to accommodate them.; 5/23/16, 5:01 PM
Howard said...: Bill, that was great, thanks. She had the voice of Southern California in the 1970's. Dodgers Yankees game 3 1977 WS. Pretty classic, but she couldn't help LA; 5/23/16, 5:09 PM
eddie willers said...: "You sing like a girl" is the obvious joke at hand

I read that and applauded the cleverness. Apropos, I must say.; 5/23/16, 5:16 PM
CWJ said...: richlb wrote -

"I'm not an insider when it comes to sports facilities management, but what sort of "third party" operates the PA system to play the national anthem? I would think someone maintains the system, but what employee other than someone working for the team or ballpark gets to push PLAY?"

My guess, and it's just a guess, would be that it's a union job, and the ballclub and/or ballpark aren't union shops. Hence the need to contract out certain jobs. Chicago's McCormick Place was infamous for the power of the electricians' union. Exhibitors couldn't even plug in the equipment on their own exhibits by themselves. They had to call over a union member to do it.; 5/23/16, 5:17 PM
eddie willers said...: No melisma,

I have a simple rule about that.
If your name isn't Aretha Franklin, don't.; 5/23/16, 5:21 PM
Darrell said...: The crowd was absolutely silent during the National Anthem and there was only normal applause and cheering when it finished. There was no booing or heckling. This same group sang for the Padres in September 2015, as can be seen on YouTube.; 5/23/16, 5:34 PM
bagoh20 said...: I think they should be outraged by the team choosing to call themselves "The Padres". That there is some deliberate anti-gay meanity.; 5/23/16, 5:42 PM
n.n said...: Unlike transgender/crossover orientations, transgender/homosexual orientation can generally be discerned only from the behavior of couplets or polygamous partners. What is the distinguishing characteristic between a transgender/homosexual and all male choir, other than exploiting the novelty of transgenderism?

bagoh20:

Timmy has two or more padres and a divested madre.; 5/23/16, 6:18 PM
exhelodrvr1 said...: Anytime anything negative happens to a member of a protected group, they have the option of playing the "hate crime/prejudice" card, even if the likelihood of that being the underlying reason is miniscule.; 5/23/16, 6:25 PM
JAORE said...: Former Padres player and current MLB vice president of social responsibility and inclusion Billy Bean

Well that explains the soaring cost of tickets....; 5/23/16, 7:15 PM
Unknown said...: It could have been just an unfortunate mistake, or it could have been a prank carried out by a single low level technician. Was the group supposed to sing live, or lip sync their own track? If it's the former, it definitely has the makings of a prank, and a rather hateful one at that. If the later, it may be just a mistake, but a bad prank is still entirely possible.; 5/23/16, 8:17 PM
Laslo Spatula said...: As has been said by others: the Lip-Sync part of this is what offends me most.

The Need of a Backing Track embarrassed you.

Milli Vanilli via Wiki:

The first public sign that the group was lip-synching came on 21 July 1989, during a live performance on MTV at the Lake Compounce theme park in Bristol, Connecticut. As they performed onstage live in front of an audience, the recording of the song "Girl You Know It's True" jammed and began to skip, repeating the partial line "Girl, you know it's..." over and over on the speakers. They continued to pretend to sing and dance onstage for a few more moments, then they both ran offstage.

Of course, this was way back when men and women used separate bathrooms.

I am Laslo.; 5/23/16, 8:39 PM
Birches said...: Uhhh. Billy Beane isn't gay. He is famous because of the book (and movie) Moneyball.; 5/23/16, 9:43 PM
Anonymous said...: Althouse wrote:

"I recommend listening to the recording at the link. It seems to me that it was a deliberate effort to embarrass these men."

No one could embarrass these men anymore than they have done themselves. Gay Men's Chorus indeed.; 5/23/16, 9:52 PM
Etienne said...: "we're just normal guys"

Nope.; 5/23/16, 10:03 PM
n.n said...: Since transgender/homosexual men only exhibit marginal transgender/crossover traits (e.g. oscillating masculine and feminine orientations), this "prank" was poorly considered, if the goal was to shame an individual outside of a transgender behavioral context. It may be that the transgender/homosexuals are being targeted for withholding support (a la female chauvinists and women, girls; Clinton et al) for the cause du jour: transgender/crossover.

Also, in the spirit of liberal social justice movements, it must be noted that these male transgender/homosexuals exhibited what must be characterized as a phobia to transgender/crossover orientations. In following the moral, albeit selective standards of our time, they should apologize to anyone who may have been offended by their overreaction.; 5/23/16, 10:32 PM
Static Ping said...: Birches: Billy Beane, with an "e" at the end, is the Moneyball guy. Billy Bean, with the "e" at the end, is the gay guy. Similar names, obviously.; 5/23/16, 10:39 PM
Fernandinande said...: "we’re sports fans too, and we’re normal guys."

Hate crime alert: they're othering me.; 5/23/16, 11:12 PM
Fen said...: I've seen this happen before. Twice. But neither incident involved gays playing the victim, so it was a nothing-burger. I guess Murphy is a bigot too, lol.; 5/23/16, 11:53 PM
Titus said...: Billy Beane, the diversity guy, was a baseball player, and is gay.; 5/24/16, 8:20 AM
Hammond X. Gritzkofe said...: Occam's Razor: a hate crime hoax. Person at the P.A. system console bats for the other team.; 5/24/16, 8:27 AM