Althouse: "I thought we were going to die. I really did. And I didn’t care if I died..."

March 19, 2016

"I thought we were going to die. I really did. And I didn’t care if I died..."

"... as long as I could save her and get her out of there, that’s all I cared about... I’ve lived [in Framingham] my whole life and I never imagined anything like this could happen just walking down the street....”

55 comments:

chickelit said...: Well folks, you have to admit that whoever is behind our current immigration policy has done his or her level best to ensure Donald Trump's election.; 3/19/16, 8:17 PM
chickelit said...: When NPR reports on this, surely they'll sensitive enough to pronounce Guatemala "Hwuatemala"; 3/19/16, 8:23 PM
David L. said...: Who says NPR is going to report on this? When I checked Google News the story hadn't made it out of the right-wing papers and blogosphere.; 3/19/16, 8:29 PM
Michael K said...: Trump is so lucky in his enemies.; 3/19/16, 8:40 PM
I'm Full of Soup said...: The MSM news embargo of these types of stories would make for a fascinating academic study if the embargo itself was not so disgusting and dishonest to the MSM news consumers.; 3/19/16, 8:53 PM
Anonymous said...: The idea that this country has borders is notional. A couple of theses guys were deported before. They must have nothing but contempt for the US. Framingham is pretty toney and typical leftie enclave. No one will talk about this in public.; 3/19/16, 9:09 PM
David Begley said...: Peggy Noonan is right. We are unprotected.

Crimes like this - and worse - happen hundreds of times per day in America.

And for what? Cheap labor for the GOPe and future voters for the Dems.; 3/19/16, 9:10 PM
Big Mike said...: See, Trump was wrong everybody!

It isn't those Mexican illegal immigrants who are the rapists. It's those stinkin' Guatemalans! So wonder Mexico has closed off its southern border.; 3/19/16, 9:19 PM
David Begley said...: Are there any academic studies setting out the number of American citizens killed by illegal aliens?

But for the federal government's failure to do its job and enforce existing law, every one of those persons would be alive today.; 3/19/16, 9:20 PM
Big Mike said...: @David Begley, it's roughly the same as the number of academic studies in European universities enumerating the number of rapes and murders caused by Muslim immigrants.; 3/19/16, 9:28 PM
Gahrie said...: Put a bullet in their heads and bill Guatemala for the bullets.; 3/19/16, 9:31 PM
n.n said...: Each nation has its share of rapists. We shouldn't be disproportionately adding to this number through excessive (e.g. refugee crises, class diversity) and unmeasured (e.g. illegal) immigration.

We were not defeated in Iraq, so the refugee crises that were initiated through premature evacuation, abandonment, regime changes, social justice maneuvering, and progressive wars cannot be considered an excuse.

We must engage the leaders of second and third-world nations to address the local causes for mass exodus of their native men, women, and children.

We cannot tolerate immigration policies that serve to compensate and thereby obfuscate the millions of American lives lost to abortion rites during reactive parenthood and baby trials during planned parenthood.; 3/19/16, 9:31 PM
Gahrie said...: We must engage the leaders of second and third-world nations to address the local causes for mass exodus of their native men, women, and children.

That's easy....corrupt and ineffective government.

The problem is, the answer is to replace the governments with colonial administrations while we create infrastructure and teach the peasants how to govern themselves. This solution has unfortunately gone out of style.; 3/19/16, 10:04 PM
jg said...: It really isn't too much to ask. Control who comes+stays. People without a documented crime-free track record in their home country shouldn't be given one of the limited number of legal immigration spots. People who are going to cost us more than they benefit us, also.; 3/19/16, 10:07 PM
jg said...: "dangerousness hearings"; 3/19/16, 10:07 PM
Levi Starks said...: Descriptors can be very tricky in a situation like this, I recommend "undocumented rapists"; 3/19/16, 10:08 PM
Nyamujal said...: What are your odds of being attacked in such a way by an illegal immigrant? I'd bet that they are extremely low. Similarly, your odds of dying in a terrorist attack are 1 in 3.5 million or so. A person has a higher chance of being killed by a vending machine than being killed by a jihadi, especially if you live in east bumfuck Iowa or NH.
A majority of immigrants, legal and illegal, aren't like these monsters. I think most Americans intuitively know this. Besides, unauthorized immigration peaked in 2007 and has been steadily declining since then, with net UI negative in 2015. People are basically getting riled up over a giant nothingburger.; 3/19/16, 11:29 PM
jacksonjay said...: Now I get it. This is what they mean by "living in the shadows."

I was always confused by that lie, because I see them everyday living out in the open.; 3/19/16, 11:29 PM
sane_voter said...: While illegal immigrants account for about 3.5 percent of the U.S population, they represented 36.7 percent of federal sentences in FY 2014 following criminal convictions, according to U.S. Sentencing Commission data.

Eliminating all immigration violations, illegal immigrants would account for 13.6 percent of all the offenders sentenced in FY14 following federal criminal convictions — still greater than the 3.5 percent of the population illegal immigrants are said to make up.

Seems like US citizens have a pretty good chance of getting robbed, raped or killed by illegal immigrants. A much greater chance than having a vending machine falling on you.; 3/19/16, 11:40 PM
chickelit said...: Shorter Nyamujal: Nothing to see here. Move along, please.; 3/19/16, 11:41 PM
Nyamujal said...: @ Sane, good point, but further digging shows that:
"Only a tiny percentage of the nation’s violent crimes are handled by the federal court system. Yes, undocumented immigrants accounted for 9.2% of federal murder convictions in 2013, but that represents a grand total of eight murder cases. When you consider that the FBI estimates there were 14,196 murders in the U.S. in 2013, those few cases handled by the federal court system don’t quite register as a reliable sample set.

The same goes for the other violent crimes cited in those statistics. Add the fact that undocumented immigrants are far more likely to be caught up in the federal court system because of non-violent immigration violations, and the numbers shouldn't mean much."
Yes, that's eight.; 3/19/16, 11:50 PM
Nyamujal said...: @Sane, the vending machine stat was used to talk about your chances of dying in a terrorist attack. If you read my post carefully, I was asking for stats on crimes committed by illegal immigrants and hypothesizing that they were very small compared to a larger set of crimes committed by citizens.; 3/19/16, 11:55 PM
The Cracker Emcee Refulgent said...: Not a nothingburger to the woman who was raped by these pieces of shit. I'd say she has "absolute moral authority" concerning the enforcement of our immigration laws.; 3/20/16, 12:18 AM
chickelit said...: Not a nothingburger to the woman who was raped by these pieces of shit

(even shorter Nyamujal): She's probably making it up. Has anybody fact checked this story?; 3/20/16, 12:51 AM
chickelit said...: And that, folks, is why "Nyamujal" has less than 100 profile views while I have over 13,000, even though we've both been on blogger for a comparable time.; 3/20/16, 12:54 AM
Gabriel said...: @Nyamujal: I was asking for stats on crimes committed by illegal immigrants and hypothesizing that they were very small compared to a larger set of crimes committed by citizens.

So do you think we should ban driving? Because that is where your line of argument leads, if you are sincere: you should be trying to get everyone to stop driving. You should be so concerned about it, in fact, that you should have mentioned driving in your post. You should have demanded that we give up bothering about AIDS, or breast cancer.

The thing is, you are not sincere. You are not actually trying to get us focused on the things we are most at risk from. Instead, you are trying to minimize the importance of a risk due to motives of your own, which you are not forthright enough to state, using an argument you do not yourself find convincing.

The reason people get so angry about immigration laws and the crimes that illegals commit is because not one of those crimes should have happened at all, and the only reason they do is that the government has abdicated its responsibilities here.

Every single politician who talks tough on illegal immigration has participated in making the laws we have on our books unenforced and unenforceable, without having the decency to work for the laws that they think we really should have.

In short, most citizens think that they should either enforce the laws we have, or change them. Not do kabuki dances where we pretend to enforce them, with fake programs like E-Verify, which contain provision for legally employing illegals who fail to pass E-Verify. Because while those kabuki dances make it easier for some people to get votes or hire landscapers, they also result in people getting killed who need not have been.; 3/20/16, 12:58 AM
Rocketeer said...: I agree with your larger point LarsPorsena - but did you really just describe Framingham as "tony?" It's about as working class and non-tony as you can find inside 495...; 3/20/16, 5:18 AM
Gahrie said...: , I was asking for stats on crimes committed by illegal immigrants and hypothesizing that they were very small compared to a larger set of crimes committed by citizens.

Well, considering that illegal aliens make up less than 10% of our population, you are probably right.

However, if we look at crime rates, I'd be willing to bet money that illegal immigrants commit crimes, especially violent crimes, at a much higher rate than citizens.

For instance, illegal immigrants seem to think they have the right to drive drunk. The next time you read a story like this, take the time to see if the perps had prior drunk driving arrests. 9 times out of 10, they do. Then check out the number of times they have been deported and have illegally re-entered.

Every time we arrest an illegal alien that we have already deported at least once for a violent crime, they should be summarily executed. Every time we arrest someone for a property crime that we have deported at least twice, they should be sentenced to twenty years at hard labor...and make them actually work.; 3/20/16, 6:04 AM
Anonymous said...: Nyamujal said...
What are your odds of being attacked in such a way by an illegal immigrant?

Don't know about rapes, but if you are in a car crash in California, 35% of the time at least one driver flees the scene and his car.

Read Victor David Hanson on the inability / unwillingness of California to enforce its laws (zoning, health, civil, criminal, environmental, etc) if the perpetrator is hispanic and the resultant turning of parts of central California into the third world. literally.; 3/20/16, 7:19 AM
Anonymous said...: On a more positive note; Girl. Pay attention, the Boyfriend is a keeper!!!; 3/20/16, 7:19 AM
Tarrou said...: I'm pretty sure it's a microaggression to resist rape by brown people, and a downright declaration of racism to "rescue" someone from clearly consensual intercourse with undocumented heroic-americans. This couple should be investigated for hate crimes and badthink!; 3/20/16, 7:29 AM
JCC said...: @ Nyamujal -

"...very small compared to a larger set of crimes committed by citizens..."

Google "illegal alien & crime" and this is the very first entry: Illegal aliens account for 30% of murders in many states. In the article, between 2008 and 2014, "38% of all murder convictions in the five states of California, Texas, Arizona, Florida and New York, while illegal aliens constitute only 5.6% of the total population in those states.
That 38% represents 7,085 murders out of the total of 18,643."

7,085 murders in only 5 states in 6 years. 38% of murders by 5.6% of the population.

Insignificant, right?

Do you just make up that stuff you're spouting?; 3/20/16, 7:56 AM
Titus said...: Framingham is not "tony". Please-Framingham is blue collar and an undesirable place to live-although it is the home of TJ Maxx and Staples!; 3/20/16, 7:58 AM
Oso Negro said...: Thanks for that perspective on the rape, Titus.; 3/20/16, 8:03 AM
AllenS said...: Nyamujal said...
Similarly, your odds of dying in a terrorist attack are 1 in 3.5 million or so. A person has a higher chance of being killed by a vending machine than being killed by a jihadi, especially if you live in east bumfuck Iowa or NH.

On September 11 2001, 2996 people were killed and +6000 were injured during what most would call (except you) a terrorist attack. The thought that just as many were killed and injured by vending machines is probably one of the dumbest fucking things I've ever heard of.; 3/20/16, 8:25 AM
Wince said...: Titus, you forgot Bose Corp.

Did this happen downtow Framingham?; 3/20/16, 8:49 AM
Nyamujal said...: @AllenS, Here's the evidence whether you care about it or not:
http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2014/07/youre-much-likely-killed-brain-eating-parasites-lightning-alcoholism-obesity-medical-errors-risky-sexual-behavior-terrorist.html
https://reason.com/archives/2015/12/17/conspiracy-of-fearmongers
"
"Although [over the last 40 years] the yearly chance an American will be killed by a terrorist within the country is about one in 4 million under present conditions," Mueller and Stewart write, "around 40 percent of Americans have professed, in polls taken since late 2001, that they worry they or a family member will become a victim of a terrorist." ["For the period since 2001, the chances are one in 110 million."]

Of course. The media work overtime to make them afraid. But getting killed by an asteroid is more likely. Richard Jackson of the National Centre for Peace and Conflict Studies in New Zealand says we have more to fear from bathtubs and vending machines.
"
The riskiest thing you do every day is drive a car. If you live in a state that has a lot of guns, your chances or getting shot are also high. Terrorism should rank at the bottom of your "things to be scared of" list.; 3/20/16, 10:03 AM
Nyamujal said...: @JCC, there's a lot of noise in the stats, as evidenced by my reply to @Sane who was citing the high proportion of federal crimes committed by illegals as evidence of their criminality. It is a statistical fact that a vast majority of immigrants are less likely to commit crimes than their American counterparts. Even the Center for immigration studies admits that. I could sift through the data and give you better evidence (it'll take some simple Python web crawl magic with a little data mining), but I'm sure you won't be convinced by the facts because this is an emotional issue for you.; 3/20/16, 10:09 AM
Nyamujal said...: @Gabriel, I agree with most of what you've said. Demonizing a large group of people based on acts like the one linked by the Prof is what tends to happen. There is never a nuanced debate on immigration and now that this issue has been "Trumpified", I doubt we'll have one this election cycle.; 3/20/16, 10:13 AM
Gabriel said...: @Nyamujal:It is a statistical fact that a vast majority of immigrants are less likely to commit crimes than their American counterparts.

We all saw you palm that card.

You're lumping ALL immigrants, legal and illegal, together, and artificially depressing the rate. Most legal immigrants probably are quite law-abiding, but that is not the topic. The topic is ILLEGAL immigrants.

Seen that kind of jiggery-pokery too many times now.; 3/20/16, 10:15 AM
AllenS said...: Not only do I live in a state with a lot of guns, I have a lot of guns.; 3/20/16, 10:16 AM
Anonymous said...: @AllanS

And know how to use them. We Vietnam Vets are unstable killers after all :); 3/20/16, 10:18 AM
Gabriel said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 3/20/16, 10:18 AM
Gabriel said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 3/20/16, 10:22 AM
Gabriel said...: @Nyamujal:Demonizing a large group of people based on acts like the one linked by the Prof is what tends to happen.

Mushroom A is mildly toxic to susceptible individuals, 99.9% of the population is immune. But since millions of people eat Mushroom A you get a few hundred deaths per year.

Mushroom B is so deadly and toxic no one will eat it. Only maybe 10 people per year die from eating it, since people try not to eat that mushroom if they know what it is, and eating it is 99.9% fatal.

Your argument is that we should not worry about eating Mushroom B, because people are more likely to die from eating Mushroom A. It's a bogus argument.

Bernie Madoff only scammed a few people, far more money is lost under couch cushions every year. Etc, etc. We're not stupid. We can see that you yourself do not apply this argument to any issue you are on the other side of.

Illegal immigrants commit violent crimes, and DWIs, far out of proportion to their share of the population. And they are here in violation of the laws we have established. The default in a society under rule of law is that laws be enforced, and we the citizenry have every right to demand immigration laws either be enforced or changed--even if no illegal ever committed a violent crime.; 3/20/16, 10:24 AM
JCC said...: @ Nyamujal -

"It is a statistical fact that a vast majority of immigrants are less likely to commit crimes than their American counterparts."

I thought the topic was illegal immigrants and crime. And on that subject, since an illegal immigrant is, by definition, breaking the law, they are 100% criminals. But, even if we waive that particular little irritant, your best response to hard numbers is to suggest I'm emotional, and thus, unreliable? That's good. You don't like my stats so I should get a T shot? A nuanced debate indeed...

Like I said originally, you just make this stuff up, don't you? Unless, of course, you have an actual reply to 38% of murder convictions in those 5 states, 2008 - 2014, were of illegal aliens, when illegal aliens according to the U S Census were 5.6% of the population. I have a link if you really are too lazy to Google it.

By the way, you are correct. I was not convinced by the power of your logic.; 3/20/16, 11:22 AM
Anonymous said...: The moribund and mindlessly lefty Boston Globe routinely ignores the nationality of illegal immigrant criminals, referring to them instead by the towns they happen to have squatted in.

In this case, if their crime is reported at all, the perps will be called "Framingham men".; 3/20/16, 11:44 AM
William said...: I agree that this rape is not typical of immigrant behavior. What is typical behavior is the muted way the media has reported on this rape.......I don't know what the stats are, but my guess is that more rapes are committed by illegal immigrants than by frat boys, and that the odds of a rape being widely reported are astronomically higher if you're a frat boy as opposed to an illegal immigrant.; 3/20/16, 1:19 PM
AllenS said...: This thread started out as a story about 4 illegals committing rape, then suddenly, at 11:29 the issue was about how dangerous vending machines could be. WTF?; 3/20/16, 1:42 PM
ALP said...: chickelit:

When NPR reports on this, surely they'll sensitive enough to pronounce Guatemala "Hwuatemala"

***************
This is the best thread ever - a fabulous slam of NPR and AllenS is back! With guns!; 3/20/16, 2:27 PM
SJ said...: I think this is another news story that touches the sensitive issue of "gun control."

Like the last news story, the lesson is that sometimes gun control helps.

(If you have a gun available. And if you remember that gun control means hitting your target.)

In this case, the victims didn't appear to have a gun available.

The criminals were able to escalate to beating of a man and rape of a woman before the victims were able to escape.

But the crime could have been stopped before it started, if one of the couple had carried a gun--and had the awareness to use it well.; 3/20/16, 2:31 PM
Fernandinande said...: chickelit said...
When NPR reports on this, surely they'll sensitive enough to pronounce Guatemala "Hwuatemala"

*If* they mention it, they'll probably omit any references to Guatemala, deportation, etc, like this article: Four Framingham men are accused of grabbing a woman off the street on Sunday. Just four local guys!; 3/20/16, 3:14 PM
Fernandinande said...: Link above: "Elmer Diaz’ lawyer, Ken Gross, argued that he believes the story is suspect because both the woman and her boyfriend have criminal records, including arrests for heroin. Neither sought medical help after the incident."; 3/20/16, 3:16 PM
Bruce Hayden said...: I agree that this rape is not typical of immigrant behavior. What is typical behavior is the muted way the media has reported on this rape.......I don't know what the stats are, but my guess is that more rapes are committed by illegal immigrants than by frat boys, and that the odds of a rape being widely reported are astronomically higher if you're a frat boy as opposed to an illegal immigrant.

Don't forget the politically incorrect fact that immigrant Muslim men are far more likely to rape and molest women than pretty much any other demographic. And, this is especially true when they are here without families. The best one I can remember was the muzzie who raped a young boy because he needed a sexual release, and the boy was available. Presumably, what he meant there was that there were no sheep or goats immediately at hand. Just like the left tries to hide the amount of crime committed by illegals here, they also try to hide the enormity of how badly middle eastern Muslim sexual mores fit in our culture.; 3/20/16, 3:30 PM
D.D. Driver said...: It's probably wise to simmer down with the hot takes until we have a few more facts. I am the only one that remembers the last sensational gang rape story? It was just last month, people:

http://www.inquisitr.com/2827545/brooklyn-gang-rape-a-hoax-victim-confesses-to-having-consensual-sex-with-teens-and-her-own-father/; 3/21/16, 8:18 AM