"It sure feels that way to me. I’m about half German, same as Trump. And it feels like a racial insult to me...."
Scott Adams, doing his thing today.
Also: "You might THINK Trump has said some ethnically insensitive things during this campaign, but that’s an illusion...."
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178 comments:
The comparison to Hitler is not based on what he is saying, it is based on how he is behaving.
Now Dilbert places the race card. Pathetic. Trump as victim.
Are feelings the standard? A lot of people feel that Trump carries a whiff of Mussolini, and his adherents a whiff of the Blackshirts.
Please don't stop calling Trump Hitler.
It's so absurd, that it actually helps him more than hurts him.
I thought Trump at some point said that he was of Swedish ancestry:
http://www.buzzfeed.com/andrewkaczynski/trump-mocks-warrens-native-american-heritage-claim-but-false#.sb4ZxeZwrK
He'll probably claim he has a Mexican ancestor to try and get the Latino vote. This is some really dumb pearl clutching on Adams' part.
Monty Python's flick with Hitler living in Somerset England under the name "Hilter" was good, ideawise.
I don't think it's racist, I think it's an idiot marker.
My favorite: "Trump’s daughter converted to Judaism." I have a feeling Ivanka's Judaism is about as sincere as Donald's Presbyterianism. That's another reason to support Trump over Cruz. Trump is just pandering; Cruz actually believes this stuff.
I'm just impressed that the waiting period is gone; most Republicans don't get compared to Hitler until after they're in office.
Even Dubya got a waiting period.
Google the two words, trump and hitler, and you will see how remarkably un-original Adams' stupid post really is. His is probably the least-original writing on the subject. He's far from the first to make the Trump-Hitler comparison, and he's not even close to suggesting the comparison should never be made.
Maybe, he's just cribbing from Trump defender and mouthpiece, Ann Coulter, whose online column makes Adams' post look pretty much like plagiarism.
What is amazing -- and this is notwithstanding Trump's many Jewish acquaintances and in-laws -- is Trump's own association with wickedly anti-Semitic comments and literature. There's the Trump comment that the only people he wants counting his money are "little guys wearing yarmulkes."
And then there is this eye-opener, from the Vanity Fair archives:
Last April, perhaps in a surge of Czech nationalism, Ivana Trump told her lawyer Michael Kennedy that from time to time her husband reads a book of Hitler’s collected speeches, My New Order, which he keeps in a cabinet by his bed. Kennedy now guards a copy of My New Order in a closet at his office, as if it were a grenade. Hitler’s speeches, from his earliest days up through the Phony War of 1939, reveal his extraordinary ability as a master propagandist.
“Did your cousin John give you the Hitler speeches?” I asked Trump.
Trump hesitated. “Who told you that?”
“I don’t remember,” I said.
“Actually, it was my friend Marty Davis from Paramount who gave me a copy of Mein Kampf, and he’s a Jew.” (“I did give him a book about Hitler,” Marty Davis said. “But it was My New Order, Hitler’s speeches, not Mein Kampf. I thought he would find it interesting. I am his friend, but I’m not Jewish.”)
Later, Trump returned to this subject. “If I had these speeches, and I am not saying that I do, I would never read them.”
Is Ivana trying to convince her friends and lawyer that Trump is a crypto-Nazi? Trump is no reader or history buff. Perhaps his possession of Hitler’s speeches merely indicates an interest in Hitler’s genius at propaganda. The Führer often described his defeats at Stalingrad and in North Africa as great victories. Trump continues to endow his diminishing world with significance as well. “There’s nobody that has the cash flow that I have,” he told The Wall Street Journal long after he knew better. “I want to be king of cash.”
Wow. Just, wow.
http://www.vanityfair.com/magazine/2015/07/donald-ivana-trump-divorce-prenup-marie-brenner
Scott Adams is down on analogy. What about Lautreamont?
Old Ocean, with your crystal waves you resemble (by analogy) the parallel azure lines one sees upon the bruised backs of cabin-boys;
I disagree. You can't be racist against whites. Or republicans.
There's a very good article by Thomas Frank that actually seeks to explain why Trump has developed so many voters and followers.
No, it's not because all these budding young Racist Fascists are attracted to this Hitler-like figure, duh.
A large component of it are blue-collar workers who feel they have been damaged by trade agreements (NAFTA, TPP), largely supported by the elites of both parties. Bill Clinton was the father of NAFTA, by the way, and then-First Lady Hillary supported it.
These workers feel that the manufacturing base has been gutted by these trade agreements. If you add lax immigration policies to the mix, which increases the supply of labor, and thus decreases wages, too, well, you have a large group of voters who have a valid beef.
Is it a mere coincidence that both political insurgents, Trump and Bernie, opposed all these trade deals?
Stick with Mussolini, then.
* * *
More seriously, the fascist label is always misued. Trump may be a nativist. He's not a fascist. Clinton may be a corporatist. She's not a fascist. Until you have a cult of violence you don't have fascism.
Mr Show: Hitler Clones
There is nothing absurd about the comparison. Registering people Muslims, deportation of millions of people, painting an entire group of people as rapists and "bad" generally, the narcissism, the thin skin, the suggestion of limiting free speech ( open up those libel laws), the advocacy of torture, so many I'm probably forgetting some. Hitler promised Germany many great things too, afterall he built the Autoban. No one care what nationality Trump is, he could be Latvian and people would clearly see the resemblance. Looks like Fascism, sounds like Fascism...
Oh yes, it's not Jews that Trump is targeting his attention on, it's Hispanics and Muslims and black Americans (the hesitancy to rebuke an endorsement by David Duke for instance).
What Henry said.
Fascism is a very specific thing, and you'd think the people who gleefully spout Orwell as an authority on everything else might listen to him on the subject and avoid spouting "fascist" at everything.
(Trump might even be an authoritarian of sorts, more than just a nativist - but he's still not a Fascist; he's not a totalitarian, he doesn't expect people to worship the State, and he has no concept of a corporatist [in the Fascist sense, of "bodies of representation; the people, industry, the Army, the Church", not "corporations!!!!!!"] organization.
Clinton is likewise nothing like a Fascist.)
Can we agree that calling the candidate with German ancestry "Hitler” is racist?
The answer lies somewhere between "no" and "so what?".
1. Veterans are disproportionately minorities.
Minority Veterans made up about 21% of the total Veteran population in 2012. The two largest groups were Black (11%) and Hispanic (6%)
The US general population is 38% 'minority', nearly twice the % for veterans.
Nyamujal said...
I thought Trump at some point said that he was of Swedish ancestry:
http://www.buzzfeed.com/andrewkaczynski/trump-mocks-warrens-native-american-heritage-claim-but-false
He probably told that blatant lie so he could get affirmative action since Swedes are considered incompetent, er, I meant disadvantaged.
@Amanda:
"Oh yes, it's not Jews that Trump is targeting his attention on, it's Hispanics and Muslims and black Americans (the hesitancy to rebuke an endorsement by David Duke for instance)."
Do you have the slightest clue of the condition of the Jews under 1930s German Nuremberg Laws? To draw any kind of comparisons to anything Trump has said or proposed is hysterical nonsense.
Trump had a Scots Presbyterian Mother that raised her children in a Presbyterian Church in Queens. But his father seems to have had Ethnic Germanic roots, and come from an area where the mixed populations of the Hapsburg Empire had to survive by taking the religion of the local Ruler.
Bohemian Czechoslakia was at ground zero of the Reformation wars started by the strong faith of Jan Hus around 1400. But Trump's father's family may well have been Jews that converted to Catholic or Reformed Faith to escape the continuous Catholic pogroms against Jews.
Being a Southern Baptist Convert in 1980 Texas shows no sincerity. It required no courage at all, but was joining the ruling class to get promotions.
Farmer, I am saying that Trump's rhetoric is suggestive of The Nazi Fervor. Trump hasn't been voted in to power yet, so he hasn't had the ability to enact anything like the Nueremberg Laws....yet. How do you think he will remove 12 million people without doing anything that resembles 1933 Germany? You have a brain, I presume, think about it.
"Until you have a cult of violence you don't have fascism."
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2016/03/10/trump-protester-sucker-punched-at-north-carolina-rally-videos-show/?tid=sm_tw
Drumpf! The talking point dependents are having a blast with that one.
Fascists favor sticks to break your bones.
But Drumpf's father's family may well have been Jews that converted to Catholic or Reformed Faith to escape the continuous Catholic pogroms against Jews.
Sounds like "joining the ruling class to get promotions."
A friend with a python asked for a field rat I'd trapped, to rejuvenate his line of pet store rats for feeding.
He reported later on the line of Nazi rats that had developed, chewing their way out of every cage and wreaking havoc in his rattery.
@Amanda, check what eric wrote, upstream, and Sigvalid's extension of my brief comment. There are a lot of nativist, authoritarian, bigoted, corporatist ideologies. They aren't necessarily fascism. It may feel satisfying to use the term, but that kind of labeling plays into the hands of every polemicist.
Use a fuzzy definition of fascism against Trump and you have a hard time defending progressives from the same accusation made by Jonah Goldberg.
Use a fuzzy definition of fascism against Trump and you'll be on the defensive when the next yahoo uses a fuzzy definition of "communist" against Bernie Sanders.
Trump embodies enough vile attributes, both personal and political, that the reach for the fascist club is unnecessary as well as incorrect. It's a scare tactic and only scares those predetermined to be scared.
Hitler was Austrian, anyway. The sound of music man.
Whenever I think the political discourse cant' get any dumber - it gets even stupider that I imagined.
None of this "trump is Hitler" stuff would occur if people were focused on the real life issues affecting us in 2016.
Trump is a moderate Republican who believes in enforcing the immigration laws and wants better trade deals. That's it. But enjoy the hysteria.
...according to science, asking people to do something – no matter how minor – greatly increases the odds that those same people will do the next thing you ask of them...
Now let's repeat the non-conformists' oath: I promise to be different! (audience repeats) I promise to be unique! (audience repeats) I promise not to repeat things other people say! (audience repeats, laughs) Good!
-Steve Martin
Trump is not qualified to be president because he scares the pants off of about half the country.
Under this scenario no Republican is qualified to be president. Well, almost none. Is 47% close enough?
@Amanda,
(the hesitancy to rebuke an endorsement by David Duke for instance).
Let's look at that charge in detail, shall we?
1) David Duke never said he endorsed Trump. He said that he liked some of Trump's immigration ideas &, if he's the nominee, would be strategically voting for him, in other words, for Duke, like a great many other voters, he's picking what he considers the least of the evils.
2) David Duke publicly broke with the Klan (insofar as what a small coterie of racist extremists do among themselves is ever "public") in 1980. That's 36 years ago! Duke is not a "klansman". Now, has David Duke become Walter Mondale? No, hardly. But what Duke is into now is antisemitism & world Jewish conspiracy sort of crap. He supports the Palestinians & the other Arabs as the foot soldiers against the Jews. He supports the anti-Israel BDS movement. He's got himself a doctorate from a Ukrainian university in Holocaust denying. He barely talks about black people or other American minorities at all. Matter of fact, he'd fit right in at a anti-Israel BDS demonstration at many major American or European universities! Here's his web site, so you can see for yourself(NSFW). Just don't do it at work, because it's classified as a hate site.
If the Left would like people to pay attention to their ideological distinctions ("Sen. Sanders, are you the same sort of "socialist" as the second 'S' in 'USSR'? Do you like gulags, too?") they've got to pay attention to other people's ideological distinctions. Even when they involve racist & anti-Semitic slimebags like David Duke.
If you look at the videos of protesters being pushed around at Trump rallies, the guy getting cold-cocked as he was escorted out, the comments on stories about the Breitbart reporter getting manhandled by Lewandowski, you see Trump might not be a fascist, but he has plenty of supporters who hope he is.
Since among whites in the US those claiming German heritage are the majority, we are climbing right into the wheelhouse of white America. It isn't possible to be bigoted against such people because they are the quintessential racists of the planet and they deserve whatever they get.
"German" is a "race"? Oh no, here we go again.
@Amanda:
"How do you think he will remove 12 million people without doing anything that resembles 1933 Germany? You have a brain, I presume, think about it."
If you do things like universal E-VERIFY and big penalties against employers who employ illegal immigrants, then many of them will leave on their own accord. You don't actually have to round up 12 million people. The media was so busy at vilifying and mocking Mitt's "self-deportation" line to realize that it actually made total sense and was a humane alternative to rounding people up.
I think the Swede thing was his father's cover during WW2.
I am sick of Hitler comparisons. It's weak because it's used so liberally like the race card. It also doesn't bother Trump.
Saying it is racist against Trump is ludicrous. The only one to refer to the German people as a race was Hitler himself, no?
I would suggest Trump should refrain from asking crowds to raise their right hand up in an oath of allegiance to him.
Farmer, I'm pretty sure Hitler was hoping many Jews would leave on their own accord ( which the Nueremberg Laws helped along) and the lucky ones did.
Well, if Thomas can't interpret the constitution with an originalist interpretation because he would have been considered a slave at the time it was written, how can Trump be anything but an authentic NAZI, and he should proudly wear the moniker of Colonel Drumpf!
With the Democrats, there is nothing bot identity politics. It's nationalism. They are national socialists.
"Farmer, I am saying that Trump's rhetoric is suggestive of The Nazi Fervor."
Showing that you have little understanding of what the "Nazi Fevor" actually was like.
Not CC (Conservatively Correct): I've noticed that Trump is not a racist. His supporters are not racists. But white supremacist racists all seem to support Trump.
But white supremacist racists all seem to support Trump.
A stopped clock is right twice a day too. It's just not very smart to depend on it for the time.
@Diamondhead,
If you look at the videos of protesters being pushed around at Trump rallies, the guy getting cold-cocked as he was escorted out, the comments on stories about the Breitbart reporter getting manhandled by Lewandowski, you see Trump might not be a fascist, but he has plenty of supporters who hope he is.
The guy getting "coldcocked" was not a peaceful protester, and if you get two minutes earlier video you will see him getting physical with the guards & some Trump supporters. Also, as a matter of policy, I don't consider protesters who seek to impose a heckler's veto on other people's right to free speech as "peaceful".
As for the Breitbart reporter, Trump needs to fire the campaign guy who abused the reporter pronto. Don't think, however, that shit like that doesn't happen with other candidates or politicians (e.g. remember Biden's staff locking some reporters in a WH closet?). But, in any case, people who physically abuse the press should be fired, no matter what the party or position.
Therefore it's not CC to ask a Trump supporter "how can I be sure you're not a white supremacist racist?" Don't ask it. Don't think it. Don't suggest it. Wouldn't be CC.
You shouldn't ask a stopped clock what time it is, and you shouldn't ask it what time it isn't.
So what is it about Trump that is so attractive to all these white supremacist groups who endorse and support Trump?
J. Farmer said...
Do you have the slightest clue of the condition of the Jews under 1930s German Nuremberg Laws? To draw any kind of comparisons to anything Trump has said or proposed is hysterical nonsense.
Exactly. And that is what Scott Adams is illustrating.
He's pointing out that Hitler analogies have become empty hyperbole, because people today really don't understand what Hitler was about. Modern America is not blessed with a broad population of educated historians.
And he is being facetious about taking offense to the Hitler analogy at a German racial level. Please don't tell me he is satirically illustrating a point that is above our heads. If so, then his point is even more spot on.
YoungHegelian said...3/10/16, 11:59 AM
2) David Duke publicly broke with the Klan (insofar as what a small coterie of racist extremists do among themselves is ever "public") in 1980. That's 36 years ago! Duke is not a "klansman"....what Duke is into now is antisemitism & world Jewish conspiracy sort of crap.
Here you see another example of lying. People who oppose David Duke (or merely want to use him as a foil) do not believe that anti-semitism is of concern to enough people to turn out the vote, so they accuse him of being a member of the Ku Klux Klan, which is, after all, close to the truth. He agrees with everything a Klansman would say * - only he adds more to it.
* He calls himself a white nationalist.
If the Left would like people to pay attention to their ideological distinctions ("Sen. Sanders, are you the same sort of "socialist" as the second 'S' in 'USSR'? Do you like gulags, too?") they've got to pay attention to other people's ideological distinctions. Even when they involve racist & anti-Semitic slimebags like David Duke.
The political left - a lot of it - isn't honest.
The key to immigration reform is to first address the causes of mass exodus from second and third-world nations. Second, to address the dysfunction and corruption of libertinism and abortion rites in liberal societies, that have undermined social stability and evolutionary fitness. Third, to address the devaluation of capital and labor caused by liberal fiscal policies and sabotage of capitalist systems through establishment of monopolies and monopolistic practices. Fourth, to address sequestration of land and other natural resources by environmental lobbyists and their corporate sponsors. Fifth, the resolution of selective or unprincipled exclusion through policies such as "=". The anti-native, minority-oriented, special or peculiar interests policies around the world are first-order causes of catastrophic anthropogenic global cultural corruption.
"You shouldn't ask a stopped clock what time it is, and you shouldn't ask it what time it isn't. "
DADT ...T
@Meade,
But white supremacist racists all seem to support Trump.
You mean like the white racists did in 2008 with Obama?
Please don't tell me I've got to publish that link to the Esquire article here again for the sixth time, not counting the recent linkage to the same article by Weevil.
Shhh, don't mention the unsavory groups that endorse Trump. Why is that?
@Diamonhead...Yes, they are the same. that was my point. The joining of the ruling classes Church, just like the ethnic Cuban,Canadian born, Texas immigrant Cruz did as a young man in a Southern Baptist ruled area of Texas. It was a smart move for promotion.
If there is a difference it is that Southern Baptists will usuall seek and find strength in their group team of fellow Baptists. By contrast the Calvinist Reformed Presbyterian Faith is nearly all individuals that know they are connected to God's authority to the point they never doubt themselves, repent hourly, or surrender what is theirs.
You pick which one is sincere faith all day long. I know them both well, and would say Presbyterians are the Educated Baptists. Both are strong faiths.
YH, I didn't see the initial altercation...but I don't see why you would put cold-cocked in scare quotes. It's a textbook case. He had been identified as a trouble-maker and was being escorted out. The man in the hat edged toward the aisle so he could get a clear shot at him.
And on the Breitbart case, they've already issued a statement: "we didn't know she was a friendly."
@Sammy,
* He calls himself a white nationalist.
Basic mistake in logic.
All Klansmen are white nationalists, but not all white nationalists are Klansmen.
"My favorite: "Trump’s daughter converted to Judaism.""
She married a Jew, Kushner.
Presumably her kids (2, and one more on the way) are Jewish.
Under Nazi rules she avoids the gas chamber, but they don't.
Ah yes, another similarity, the Brownshirts who 'took care' of those who dared to oppose Hitler.
Amanda said...
So what is it about Trump that is so attractive to all these white supremacist groups who endorse and support Trump?
Generally white supremacists and Trump supporters agree that people who illegally broke into this country should be sent back to where they came from. There is nothing Hitlerian about it. Their interests happen to coincide in this.
Presumably her kids (2, and one more on the way) are Jewish.
Depends...
My mother's family was mostly German, but her grandmother was German Jewish. So I have a fair and balanced opinion on this issue: Germans are the largest white ethnicity in America. For the most part they have been good, even exemplary Americans. In the twentieth century, Germans were not such good Europeans, but they were good Americans. I think we can infer from this that Germans are not intrinsically bad but that in certain circumstances and in certain times, they have been capable of great evil. In this they differ from exactly no one.......,,Also I would wish that those who preach against the evils of German nationalism take into cognizance Napoleon's occupation of German lands and the efforts of the great powers to keep the German people divided into hundreds of squabbling duchies. If German nationalism was pathological, the pathology was a response to strictutes inflicted on them.
Shhh, don't mention the unsavory groups that endorse Trump. Why is that?
Mention them all you want. All it does is show your hopeless historical ignorance.
Stalin's daughter married a Jew. I don't think this diminishes his anti-semitism. There is quite a lot of variety among anti-Semites. Leftists like to stereotype anti Semites as white and conservative, but that's simply not true.
I agree with Bernie Sanders that Goldman Sachs should not have been bailed out.
I agree with him that "the establishment" has rigged the system with their lobbyists and special interests.
I still thing he's a f*****g moron.
@Diamondhead,
It's a textbook case. He had been identified as a trouble-maker and was being escorted out. The man in the hat edged toward the aisle so he could get a clear shot at him.
Because I can understand a bystander's rage at the assholes who seek to shut down other people's free speech rights by their constant use of the heckler's veto. Do you not follow what happens to conservative speakers on college campuses now?
"Probe with a bayonet: if you meet steel, stop. If you meet mush, then push." V.I. Lenin. The activists have learned their lesson well. If the rest of us don't find some steel, don't think for a minute they won't shut us down if they can. These are not nice people.
"Generally white supremacists and Trump supporters agree that people who illegally broke into this country should be sent back to where they came from. There is nothing Hitlerian about it. Their interests happen to coincide in this."
Tank,
Ohhhhh, I'm so relieved that it's a mere coincidence.
Meade said...
Not CC (Conservatively Correct): I've noticed that Trump is not a racist. His supporters are not racists. But white supremacist racists all seem to support Trump. Therefore it's not CC to ask a Trump supporter "how can I be sure you're not a white supremacist racist?" Don't ask it. Don't think it. Don't suggest it. Wouldn't be CC.
Meade is a Scott Walker supporter. Walker has been compared to Hitler by many at Madison, Wisconsin protests. There are racists in Wisconsin that voted for Walker.
Meade has also publically stated on this blog that he will not vote for Joanne Kloppenburg in the upcoming Wisconsin Supreme Court election, but rather a candidate who wrote racially insensitive comments in the past.
He also does not want to see Hillary Clinton elected President who is the favored candidate among African-Americans.
Do we then conclude, using Meade's guilt by association theory, that Meade is a racist and has no proof to the contrary, and we can't be sure he isn't.
Or do we recognize he is not a racist and just feels like playing the role of curmudgeon when it comes to discussing Trump?
Everybody calm down and just be glad President Trump is not a Mongolian. Now that was a race greatly to be feared.
"Hitler’s collected speeches, My New Order"
Is well worth a read. So is "Mein Kampf"
Also "Table Talk"
But white supremacist racists all seem to support Trump.
Does being a white supremacist racist (Are there any who are not racist?) make one completely wrong about everything? Probably not. William Shockley was likely to have been wrong about race and intelligence -- though the subject is so toxic that a dispassionate critique is effectively impossible -- yet entirely right about semiconductors.
" just be glad President Trump is not a Mongolian"
Prettiest girl I ever knew in person was Spanish-Filipino-Russian-Mongolian
@Amanda:
"Farmer, I'm pretty sure Hitler was hoping many Jews would leave on their own accord ( which the Nueremberg Laws helped along) and the lucky ones did.
Those Jews were German citizens. That is a completely different scenario than illegal migrants who have no legal right to be in the country. If you cannot understand that difference, then you cannot understand differences.
"So what is it about Trump that is so attractive to all these white supremacist groups who endorse and support Trump?"
White supremacists have long supported immigration restrictionism, so it shouldn't be a surprise that the most immigration restrictionist candidate is supported by them. But this is all just lazy guilt by association. The important question is not why do white supremacists support Trump. The important question is immigration restriction a good policy. In my opinion, the answer is clearly yes.
Hitler was Austrian, which according to the Smartest President Evah is a country that doesn't even speak German.
Amanda said...
Shhh, don't mention the unsavory groups that endorse Trump. Why is that?
It's interesting this is considered an intelligent argument among the left. Anti-semites support the Democratic party, why is that?
Please don't stop calling Trump Hitler. It's so absurd, that it actually helps him more than hurts him.
I usually defer comment on the worst hyperbole of which Hitler-Fascist references are just one example. Why try to kill the goose that keeps laying golden eggs for my candidate? Unless, of course, I can have a little fun with it. Sometimes a random canard will have a fragment of a rational thought. But that’s rare.
But they cannot help it although deep down they must dimly realize they are only making things worse. By “they” I mean the MSM, the “intellectual” class(who are not worthy of that label), the academics, the race-baiters, most of the pundits and in their TDS(Trump Derangement Syndrome) they are joined by a group of dogmatically ideological conservatives I call the Constipated Conservatives.
The CC are fighting Trump’s Ex-Lax hard. These self-appointed gate-keepers have been blocking the colon of the Republican Party since the Reagan era, pimping purity requirements for acceptance on the Right – a policy exactly the opposite of Reagan’s “big tent” philosophy. It is becoming apparent that they would rather lose to Hillary than have the leadership of the GOP taken over by Trump. And lose they will – only not to Hillary but to Trump.
You cannot pick who you lose to – you can only choose to lose.
… I am saying that Trump's rhetoric is suggestive of The Nazi Fervor.
And I’m saying that a fart is suggestive of Chanel No. 5 but that doesn’t make it true.
Trump is a moderate Republican who believes in enforcing the immigration laws and wants better trade deals. That's it. But enjoy the hysteria.
Right. The sky is falling! Please.
Those Jews were German citizens.
Dead on. Prior to the advent of the Nazis Germany was one of the least anti-Semitic European states, which is one reason so few did emigrate after 1933. German Jews were so assimilated that the fanatical hatred aimed at them was incomprehensible.
Online white supremacists were wondering if Trump's second wife was white enough back in 2009.
Amanda said...
"Generally white supremacists and Trump supporters agree that people who illegally broke into this country should be sent back to where they came from. There is nothing Hitlerian about it. Their interests happen to coincide in this."
Tank,
Ohhhhh, I'm so relieved that it's a mere coincidence.
No you're not. You're a fucking moron. You have the kind of stupid that only comes with a Masters degree. Or a PhD. You know Trump is not a racist or a white supremacist or a member of the KKK, but you deliberately mix the two (or three) to slime him. So, you are not relieved, you are a liar and a con artist. You know that he is talking about illegal immigrants breaking into this country.
Trump = German = Hitler is not only racist, it's a paradigm case of Reductio ad Hitlerum.
Godwin's Law instantly awards the argument to Trump.
The accusations against Trump are not based on his having any German ancestry, at least so far, although I don't maybe somewhere it's being pointed out. And if they were based on his having any Geraman ancestry that would not be racist, because that is far narrower category than race. But in any case there's nothing the least bit German about Donald Trump.
Everyone knows that what Donald Trump engages in is not racism, but countryism, but countryism is not one of the universally morally disapproved of isms these days. (It can't be; it's something relatively new.)
It could be argued that countryism has no emotional resonance, and that it could easily deteriorate into the more familiar racism, or pure sadism, or just plain selfishness and unconcern for other human beings, not to mention uncharitableness. But it's not any form of racism or ethnic prejudice - yet -and I feel actually is more likely to deteriorate into sadism or uncharitableness, or participation in corruption, than into racism..
The persistent attempts to make some of the things Donald Trump says fit into one of the generally recognized old categories of evil won't work, because they're not true, and people can see they are not true. Making him out to be engaged in racism, is like trying to fit a round peg into a square hole. It definietely violates the golden rule, and is morally repugnant, but it is not racism. I would call it countryism. That hits the nail on the head.
And another false charhe I guess is him being a "con man" which really does not reflect his full range of activities. "Liar" would do fine.
Tank, I'm sure Trump appreciates and loves all his poorly educated.
@Amanda,
I'm sure Trump appreciates and loves all his poorly educated.
You mean, like Hillary appreciates & loves all her poorly educated minority voters?
Like income inequality, there's big inequality in education levels in this country, too. But, guess what --- it's not on the team that's got the elephant for the mascot.
Meade said...Therefore it's not CC to ask a Trump supporter "how can I be sure you're not a white supremacist racist?"
That's cute, but you fine non-Republican folks have been insisting that Republicans are all racists for all of my adult life. Mitt Romney was called a racist! It's funny to pretend like you don't assume everyone on the Right is a racist, but the Media certainly does, and we know it.
You folks have been calling everyone to your right a racist for decades. The argument "but this time we really mean it!" isn't very convincing. Trump and his supporters are supposed to be racists, sure. But so were George W Bush & his supporters, or Reagan & his supporters, and on and on.
We know you think we're all racists. It doesn't matter who the candidate is--if Cruz beats Trump it'll be a quick cut-and-paste job and suddenly all the Cruz supporters will be racists. We get it.
Quaestor said...3/10/16, 12:49 PM
Godwin's Law instantly awards the argument to Trump.
You should have seen a copy of the front page of Sunday's New York Daily News.
Amanda
The poorly educated aren't Trump's, they're yours. Or have teachers suddenly become Republicans? LOL.
But Hitler was an Austrian who couldn't speak Austrian.
Guilt by association implies association. Trump isn't associating with white supremacists any more than Hillary is associating with Cambodians who were friends of Pol Pot. She may be supported by them in numbers but that doesn't make her Pol Pot or even a Pol Pot sympathizer even if she hasn't distanced herself from their support. Even if she pretends not to know any, even if she thinks connecting those dots is stupid.
n.n said...3/10/16, 12:17 PM
The key to immigration reform is to first address the causes of mass exodus from second and third-world nations.
The root cause is that the spread of technology never reached it, and the root cause of that is World War I, and the capital controls, and immigration restrictions that resulted from World war I. Not to mention the spread of misgovernment.
Look, EITHER people from the developed world have to move there, OR people from those countries have to move to more developed ones, if there is to be any improvement. But rights are not respected there, and it;s become ano-no to gove people from the developed more human rights, at least if they settle down and do business - and people werwith contacts and education were chased out, so you are not going to get many people from the United States to move to Mexico or Honduras or anywhere. The other way, actually, is better for the more developed countries, as they maintain their preponderance and importance in the world.
You could also suggest trade. This happened with Japan, and Taiwan and South Korea, and Singapore.
This is, you know, a form of trickle down economics, and it works.
Second, to address the dysfunction and corruption of libertinism and abortion rites in liberal societies, that have undermined social stability and evolutionary fitness.
Importing people from places that have not been affected would seem to be a way to do that. Now liberal societies have a way of creating a criminal class, usually ethnically distinct in some manner. But that has to be fought separately.
Amanda says:
There is nothing absurd about the comparison. Registering people Muslims, deportation of millions of people...
Here is a count of people deported since 2008:
Deportations Since 2008
Ergo, Obama is Hitler. Right Amanda? Or do you care to revise your ignorant statement?
There is ample evidence of a Wiccans for Hillary movement. Including a website. Care to draw any conclusions?
""Can we agree that calling the candidate with German ancestry 'Hitler' is racist?""....""
No. Germans are not a race. Unless you think along the same lines as the National Socialists...and then that doubles-back and bites you since they were definitely socialists--oops I meant racist, but they were socialist too.
Quaestor said...3/10/16, 12:43 PM
Prior to the advent of the Nazis Germany was one of the least anti-Semitic European states,
There was an anti-semitgic movement in Germany, cynically started by Bismarck or people who supported monarchical rule, but its peak was about 1893, and after that it diminished. In Austria, the heydey was later, and the peak was about 1908. The German and Austrian anti-semitism was always more intellectual, and uncompromising than what was found in Eastern Europe. In Eastern Europe it was peasants who were like that, plus stupid peoplewho were manipulated.
Callahan,
Yes Obama is Deporter in Chief. Why do you think I agree with this? I'm sure when Trump deports 12 million people he will look like Obama on steroids.
Yes Obama is Deporter in Chief. Why do you think I agree with this?
Because you used it against Trump as a bad thing, and didn't acknowledge that the president you back does the same thing.
I'm sure when Trump deports 12 million people he will look like Obama on steroids.
But they can deport themselves. If life weren't better here, they wouldn't come here. Make it difficult I say - no welfare, no food stamps, no drivers licenses, no free medical care, and fine American employers who hire illegals. Within a year, they will have all moved back.
That said - no one is going to deport 12 million people. Period. I don't even think Trump has said that, and I know no Trump supporter who believes this will happen.
Amanda
If you actually believe Trump intends to deport 12 million people you were asleep in class when hyperbole was discussed. But then hyperbole was not a topic in sociology. In Rhetoric, yes. Literature, yes. Sociology probably not.
"All I’m saying is that if you are calling the German guy Hitler, and you are not German (which somehow makes it okay), then I see you as a racist."
So this is "Scott Adams' N***** Defense Rule"
(I want that to appear on search engines; his big ego will love getting the credit)
I find Adams' argument blitheringly idiotic.
I'm half-German. So can I call Trump half-Hitler?
Adams I call full stupid.
William said...3/10/16, 12:25 PM
Germans are the largest white ethnicity in America.
But ever since 1917, they keep it unmentioned, and it's also way way back. German immigration (except for that provoked by the Nazi regime) tapered off around 1880, and they've married into otehr groups.
For the most part they have been good, even exemplary Americans.
And most of them came before Germany got bad.
I think we can infer from this that Germans are not intrinsically bad but that in certain circumstances and in certain times, they have been capable of great evil.
That's correct. That's also true of Moslems, even if they don't renounce their religion.
Amanda said...3/10/16, 12:16 PM
So what is it about Trump that is so attractive to all these white supremacist groups who endorse and support Trump?
The meanness. White supremeacy requires rejection of the golden rule.
Amanda said...
Tank, I'm sure Trump appreciates and loves all his poorly educated.
The poorly educated are damaged the most by having to compete with 15 to 30 million illegal immigrants.
"Google the two words, trump and hitler, and you will see how remarkably un-original Adams' stupid post really is. His is probably the least-original writing on the subject. He's far from the first to make the Trump-Hitler comparison, and he's not even close to suggesting the comparison should never be made."
Well, you are missing the point. Adams isn't making the comparison, he's criticizing the comparison, so his criticism makes sense BECAUSE other people are making the comparison. He's criticizing the comparison on a point that I hadn't seen before: that it's racist because it sees a person of German ancestry as being like a German, as if characteristics are shared by a racial group. I hadn't seen that before.
Trump is pro-native, black, white, brown, yellow, red, and whatever. He embraces a white paradigm that reflects the interests of all people. Not just the special and peculiar interests of factions in the left, right, and center. This is why the hyphenated people have left their minority fiefdoms.
If he is capable of exposing the mass exodus from second and third-world nations, the progressive wars, the humanitarian disasters (e.g. refugee crises), the prejudice of class diversity policies, and debasing pathology of abortion rites and cannibalistic trials, then he will set himself apart from all his contemporaries and those who preceded him.
Probably not. That would require someone more human than human.
"There was an anti-semitgic movement in Germany, cynically started by Bismarck "
Anything Bismarck did was cynical. Among them being anti-Catholic.
Isn't stressing Trump's German ethnicity behind the silly Drumpf stuff?
Like when deranged Obama critics kept refer eco get his middle name
Real Hitler disciples were able to get away and went all over on all expense paid relocation mainly to Argentina and Bolivia. Their influence today seems limited today to the Argentinian Pope, some CIA groups that they taught secrets, some old Swiss Bankers holding onto their looted gold, and the Bush family with its support group.
If a politician came along with ideas and plans just like those of the NAZIs, would we only be allowed to compare him to Hitler if he happens not to be of German origin?
What makes comparing Trump to Hitler unacceptable is that it demonstrates ignorance: Ignorance of NAZI German history and ignorance of Trump's ever-shifting plans, or some combination of the two.
Hitler is not reviled today because of a strict policy of deporting illegal aliens. He is reviled for presiding over the murder and enslavement of German citizens and citizens of countries invaded by Germany.
If Trump's Hitler he sure is having a goth time with the opposition.
Damn auto-correct.
Meade: But white supremacist racists all seem to support Trump.
Amanda: So what is it about Trump that is so attractive to all these white supremacist groups who endorse and support Trump?
Is there anything in this world as morally and intellectually befuddled as a white person who obsesses and virtue-signals about "white supremacists" in this day and age?
Meade: Online white supremacists were wondering if Trump's second wife was white enough back in 2009.
A link to "stormfront", lol. Get back to us when the basement-Nazis at stormfront are considered important "stakeholders" in local, state, and national politicking, and start hauling in millions in taxpayers' money to push their racial agenda.
Finkelman -
"The root cause is that the spread of technology never reached it, and the root cause of that is World War I, and the capital controls, and immigration restrictions that resulted from World war I. Not to mention the spread of misgovernment."
None of the above is true.
" so you are not going to get many people from the United States to move to Mexico or Honduras or anywhere. "
It used to be called "colonialism", then "neo-colonialism", then, or simultaneously, "comprador capitalism" and then "empire" (see Negri), and etc. ad infinitum.
- 63,539 (91%) of all interior removals were previously convicted of a crime.
- Of the 96,045 individuals removed who had no criminal conviction, 94 percent, or 90,106, were apprehended at or near the border or ports of entry.5
From:
https://www.ice.gov/removal-statistics
The remainder were probably gang members or other unacceptably risky people. The presentation of deportees as law abiding long-term residents is flatly wrong. People who make such cases are lying or ignorant of reality.
He's criticizing the comparison on a point that I hadn't seen before: that it's racist because it sees a person of German ancestry as being like a German, as if characteristics are shared by a racial group. I hadn't seen that before.
I think to some extent they are, but now you are talking about Germanic, not German.
(Franks and Old Norse were both Germanic tribes, while there are lots people of non-Germanic ancestry in what is today's (or yesterday's) Germany.)
(As for Hitler's theories, Aryan and Iran comes off the same root.)
Stormfront? LOL indeed. I believe it is hosted by the SPLC or funded by them in the great circle jerk.
The man who sucker punched a protestor at a Trump rally yesterday and was eventually arrested, hours later, has said that the next time he sees this protestor he "might have to kill him". While this was going on Trump was bellowing "Get him out! Go home to your mother!" The protestor's mother died when he was 18 years old. This is what Trump has wrought. Trump should be arrested for inciting his rally goers.
Amanda
Trump is responsible for not knowing the protestor's (sic) mother died when he was 18? This adds weight to the "story?"
How old was the protester by the way? 45?
http://www.nbcdfw.com/news/politics/Man-Punched-at-Donald-Trump-Rally-1-Arrested-371714711.html
"McGraw told MSNBC after the incident that the protester "deserved it."
"The next time we see him, we might have to kill him. We don't know who he is. He might be with a terrorist organization," he told MSNBC's "Inside Edition."
Who is "we", I wonder. Is this man associated with some white supremacist group?
Q: Who was the best German general of World War Two?
A: Eisenhower
Amanda,
I don't condone hitting someone being disruptive, but sense when is it OK for people to go to a private rally for supporters and be disruptive. That kind of behavior gets you ejected from any sports stadium in this country. The people aren't there to listen to some agitator.
Protestors should stick to the sidewalks or over designated areas of protest. It is rude to be disruptive. And I'm not shedding any tears for some "protestor" using Brownshirt tactics of disrupting and heckling. A punch to the face might be what it takes for some people to learn not to be rude.
McCullough,
Is that what you taught your children? That violence is acceptable behavior?
The most krautish German people in America are German Jews. Unlike other German Americans they never felt it necessary to disguise their German ancestry. Ironic, huh........,There were a lot of ethnic Germans in Leningrad.. They tried to pass themselves off as Jewish during the Nazi siege of that city. Ironic, huh.
@Amanda,
Do you teach your children that walking into a meeting & screaming at people just because you don't like their ideas is acceptable behavior?
I'm sorry, but purposeful denial of free speech rights is grounds for violence, whether by the authorities, or if necessary, by the bystanders themselves. Otherwise, the hecklers just shut everybody else down.
You seem so concerned about brownshirts above. Just how do you think you stop brownshirts, Amanda? By sweet reason & huggies all around? No, you stop brownshirts by smacking the ever-loving shit out of them.
And there's no shortage of brownshirts on the left. Matter of fact, that's where most of them are right at this time in American history.
The guy who delivered the punch is 78 years-old! The little agitator couldn't even hold his own against an old codger who's pushing eighty? What a fucking pussy! Lulz
Althouse:
You thought I missed the point, because my typing was poor in that previous post just above.
I suggested that everybody Google the two words hitler and trump.
And then I suggested, or meant to suggest, that everybody observe that you find (1) of course, lots of Hitler/Trump comparisons AND (2) lots of columns ridiculing the basis and/or decency of those Hitler/Trump comparisons. My language noting item (2) was bad, and I probably gave you the wrong impression. Not your fault. My bad.
Back to my point; Ann Coulter's latest column is on this very subject and Bernie Goldberg did one as well. I've seen probably a half-dozen columns, some from Trump defenders (Coulter) and some from Trump haters (Goldberg) warning everybody to take a step back from the Hitler talk. You've certainly seen none of it from me, except to dredge up the old Vanity Fair article in which Trump really does seem to have lied about owning a copy of the book of Hitler speeches. Just one more disturbing, inexplicable Trump lies.
I know you like Scott Adams; you link to him often. I have gotten not one useful thing out of reading him. But it is your blog, and not mine. And you do a great job with it otherwise.
Amanda,
These jagoffs shut down one of Sanders rallies and took the microphone from him. They trespass at a private residence for a Hillary fundraiser. You're damn right I teach my kids not to act like these punks. And I tell them if a punk gets in there face and won't walk away, the crack him once. Doesn't need to be an elbow strike or anything too rough. Just a quick hook generated from a mini-coil in the hip socket.
The asshole who got popped learned his lesson without too much pain. Now he knows to act with better manners. He should have learned this a long time ago. He'll be grateful one day the old man taught him that lesson
The loyalty oath is super-weird.
Why would you do that?.
Rakeem Jones. Black Jaws Matter.
Amanda said...Trump should be arrested for inciting his rally goers.
Yes, arrest a politician you dislike in order to show how much of a Nazi that politician is, great strategy.
The phrase you'll want to remember is "burn this bitch down," Amanda. Since THAT's not incitement (in the context of an actual riot, mind you)...
Based on his name, I thought Adams was Jewish.
"The asshole who got popped learned his lesson without too much pain."
You're being too optimistic. Also, the asshole who popped the asshole is being charged with assault and battery apparently. So he'll learn a lesson too, maybe.
The sucker puncher was arrested and charged.
I do think that publicizing and calling out this kind of violence is good. Violence is not acceptable.
Extrapolating is more equivocal.
"The guy who delivered the punch is 78 years-old! The little agitator couldn't even hold his own against an old codger who's pushing eighty?"
He was being marched out by security. So the old coot sucker-punched him with no fear of reprisal. Passes for toughness in Trumpworld I guess.
And I tell them if a punk gets in there face and won't walk away, the crack him once.
So you're teaching your kid to be an even bigger, and violent, punk.
What the hell is wrong with you?
You are a punk.
I'm sorry, but purposeful denial of free speech rights is grounds for violence, whether by the authorities, or if necessary, by the bystanders themselves.
And you are teaching your children that using physical violence against non-violent protesters (no matter how obnoxious) is acceptable. And you are complaining about Amanda.
You are one sick puppy.
I'm with Diamondhead and Freder on this one. Political violence is not acceptable.
No, you stop brownshirts by smacking the ever-loving shit out of them.
Which turns you into a brownshirt yourself.
#SeptuagenarianRightHookBeHurtin
Our friendly neighborhood mccullough loses it:
mccullough said...
Amanda,
These jagoffs shut down one of Sanders rallies and took the microphone from him. They trespass at a private residence for a Hillary fundraiser. You're damn right I teach my kids not to act like these punks. And I tell them if a punk gets in there face and won't walk away, the crack him once. Doesn't need to be an elbow strike or anything too rough. Just a quick hook generated from a mini-coil in the hip socket.
The asshole who got popped learned his lesson without too much pain. Now he knows to act with better manners. He should have learned this a long time ago. He'll be grateful one day the old man taught him that lesson
The nasty old coot who did the hitting in this case sucker-punched a guy who was being walked out with his arms at his side.
Watch the video. There's about three angles documenting this crime:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2016/03/10/trump-protester-sucker-punched-at-north-carolina-rally-videos-show/
Now, mccullough; you ugly, sick, fuckhead. You want to defend this battery?
Here comes Chuck to defend the Soros-funded agitators! Looks like he's back to his tried-and-true Step 2 anger mode. Lulz
@Freder,
Which turns you into a brownshirt yourself.
And if you don't they win, Freder, and start hauling innocent people away in cattle cars thanks to you & your pretty little conscience.
And here comes Fabi, to attack me, a loyal lifetime Republican who happens to think Trump is a horrible candidate, as some sort of Soros-sympathizing leftist.
Don't do that to me, you prick. Stay on point, or leave me out of it.
And if you don't they win, Freder, and start hauling innocent people away in cattle cars thanks to you & your pretty little conscience.
Either their way or yours ends up with cattle cars, the only difference will be the people in them.
Not sure who's in Trumpworld, Diamondhead. Just laughing at the agitprop and the gnashing of teeth over this incident of "political violence". A bit of perspective is indicated -- this isn't the Weather Underground we're talking about.
Bottom line: the old fart should not have hit him. That's a dumbass move. His arrest is the proper response.
I am not in favor of sucker punching. Period. But I'm not down with protesters disrupting speakers. This method has been adopted by the left, embraced by the left, taught by the left and designed by the left to provoke sucker punching and the press that follows.
And if you don't they win
No, if you do, they win. That is exactly what they want.
@Chuck: It's a little bit tough for you to cry foul given your hysterical and viscious attacks against those who don't share your choice for president. I've never in my life seen behavior in comboxes as vitriolic and unbecoming as yours. Putting people on "the list"? Tough shit, Chuck. You set the tone, baby -- welcome to the jungle.
Chuck,
These BLM assholes are at every rally pulling the same bullshit. It was far past time someone tuned one of them up. Maybe you let people walk all over you, but if you want to have some semblance of order in society you have to put an end to these tactics. These crybullies disrupt speeches, talks on campuses, storm the dean's office and other bullshit. It needs to stop. Civil protest in designated public forums is fine.
Colleges wish they had a few people like this old guy willing to crack the disruptive, disrespectful crybullies.
If you ever left your attic Chuck you might feel the same way.
Bernie Sanders would be up 20 points in the polls if he shoved that jagoff instead of letting that person take his microphone.
Good grief Fabi. What a hypocrite you are. Outraged and butt hurt at someone else's behavior while yours has been abysmal almost nightly.
Well good, Fabi. Now you can explain some more vintage Trump thuggery:
Trump campaign manager Corey Lewandowski grabs Breitbart reporter Michelle Fields and hauls her off her feet.
When people figure out what just happened. Lewandowski calls the Breitbart CEO to say that he thought he was grabbing a mainstream media reporter, and not a Breitbart reporter. Meanwhile, a Washington Post reporter confirms that it was indeed Lewandowski. Next thing, Lewandowski cancels a previously-scheduled interview with the WaPo reporter, and then goes a Totally Trump Twitter attack on Ms. Fields, trying to smear her. The Trump Campaign denies anything happened.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/inside-trumps-inner-circle-his-staffers-are-willing-to-fight-for-him-literally/2016/03/10/4b2b18e8-e660-11e5-a6f3-21ccdbc5f74e_story.html
http://www.weeklystandard.com/trump-campaign-manager-smears-reporter-he-allegedly-assaulted/article/2001496
I've met Michelle Fields. And her employer, Breitbart, has been very favorable to Trump. Michelle is exceptionally pretty. And very feminine. A physical threat to no one. She's from California, and a very well-to-do middle class family. Her manners are almost too good for her job. She's one of the least imposing people in the press corps.
It will be a good test of Trump, to see if he fires this guy Lewandowski. I predict Trump will fail the test.
Oh and of course it is a story that is nowhere to be found on Drudge 2016.
So free speech must be in designated areas only and those exercising it should expect violence. The new Trumpian reality. And you don't want anyone to compare this to 1933 Germany?
The protester was being led out by security.
So I can even agree with you about protests at rallies, and still call you a hateful fool for suggesting that sucker-punching a person in police custody is... aw, I don't even have to search for a word for that. It's a crime.
And now ol' Mr. 78-Year Old Trump Supporter is going to go to jail. He may lose his unemployment benefits as a result. Hopefully it will be a felony and he'll lose his right to vote.
@Amanda: You lack the ability to process linear thought and have zero credibility to assess anyone's positions, as you frequently demonstrate. Your opinions are of no consequence to me.
@Chuck: I'm not in the business of defending Trump, but to lampoon the anti-Trumpers. It's not a dichotomy.
Amanda, does Sanders appeal to old commies make Bernie a Stalinist? I never understand how Lefties can throw around accusations of fascism and Nazism and then be so dismissive of those who fail to understand, it's going to be different this time, no gulags this time around!
Actually I do understand, it is simply you are sure youre smarter and more virtuous than anyone who disagrees with you.
Oh blah, blah, blah Fabi. You're as much a jerk as the sucker puncher, except everyone here knows what you are all aboutt and your behavior is no surprise. Your comments contain very little substance and mostly snark toward commenters you disagree with.
Amanda,
This is a private event for supporters. It's not a public forum. If he wants to lead a march or hold a protest then he can apply for a permit from a local governement and hold it in a public forum. Or protest in the designated public four area that the city allows.
What he did wasn't free speech. He wasn't in a public forum. He was a disruptive asshole like the rest of the BLM jagoffs who try to take over malls at the holiday season. Malls, even though they are open to the public, are also not public forum. They are private and you have no right to walk around pestering people and acting like an asshole.
Since these BLM punks don't respect the rules, then they need to learn to respect them. It's our obligations as citizens to help them become better citizens and not self centered attention seeking assholes.
Bernie's behavior and policies do not emulate Stalin, dustbunny.
Ouch! That really hurt, Amanda. Can I borrow your emotional support pig? Lulz
Amanda,
Instead of invoking Nazi comparisons (and by the way BLM's tactics of disruption are right out of the SA playbook), please educate yourself on free speech law and the differnce between private property and government property (and within the realm of government property, non-public forum, limited public forum, and public forum, and also time,speech, and manner regulations of speech in a public forum or limited public forum).
Ignorant and self righteous is no way to go through life. Instead of burning books, you should read them.
The next time BLM has a private meeting or rally, let's all go there and start screaming and start using their SA tactics against them. That way Chuck and Amanda and Freder can defend us for once instead of the brownshirts
McCullough,
So protestors at political rallies should expect violence from the rally goers? I don't give a damn if it's a public event or a private one. The man is running for POTUS for pity sake. He is getting free publicity. It's outrageous to expect no one to protest at a political rally. It's the American way.
And Mccollough, violent behavior toward others you disagree with or dislike is no way to go through life. I don't advocate book burning and I'm confident I've read as many or more books than the average American.
Amanda,
This isn't one streaker at one rally one time. This is BLM. They pull the shit all the time. Are you that ignorant?
Basic decency hasn't sunk in yet to them. They don't care about breaking the rules.
How long would you let them pull this shit? It's far past time, someone cracked one of these assholes. Society has tolerated their antics far too long. We should have started punching them after the Minneapolis mall.
mccullough, you represent the dark netherworld of Trumpdom.
Again, you could have had me on your side, suggesting that the protester was rightfully taken out by security. Trump has a right to speak, his followers have a right to hear him, protesters should not be allowed to disrupt the event, and should be dealt with by security.
What I love about this exchange (and you'll find that I don't want to let it go), is that you are taking the next step. We The People, we vigilantes, ought to be able to pop the p.o.s. right in the kisser when he isn't looking. Teach 'im a lesson. Given 'im the what fer.
I love the poorly educated!
One more thought about this, on a slightly more macro-level.
Trump himself did something similar. Trump liked the sound of being tough on terrorists. He knew that his supporters wanted tough talk. Trump knew just enough about "waterboarding" (basically what he got on a newscast) to be dangerous.
So Trump goes out and says that he supports waterboarding, but he'd be "much stronger." He wouldn't stop at waterboarding.
Nothing about interrogation; nothing about intelligence gathering. Waterboarding, it would seem, for punishment and for just giving them hell. Deterrence? Maybe; if Trump knew how to spell "deterrence." Retribution? Who the hell knows?
It was just one of those things that sounded so good to Trump as it exited his mouth and only after his handlers had a stern talking to him and prepared a corrective press release did Trump step back from it.
mccullough, you are on that same region of civilization's thin ice that Trump wandered onto. You should find some good handlers to reel you back in.
Chuck,
Its basic manners and civil order in society. Some people like BLM take advantage of it to suit their own ends. You can hide in your attic while BLM types pull their bullshit tactics. But the rest of us have to interact in society.
At a certain point, citizens need to stand up to the bullshit. They need to learn that their disruptive tactics and bullying won't be tolerated. They'll thank us someday for helping them understand that civility and decency are important to our social interactions. If they keep dry gulching people at malls, meetings, speeches, and rallies, then they are going to get their ass kicked. We've been beyond patient with their tactics. But they need to learn the hard way, like some of us did when we were younger.
Amanda
Bernie was a big Sandinista fan, big fan of Ortega the man of the people. Ortega and his family now own huge swatches of Nicaragua. Richest guy in the country, as rich as Somoza. Anastasio Somoza Debayle.
Look him up Amanda. Friend of Bernies. Rich thug fucking socialist.
Not once in all of this did I defend BLM tactics. Not once, not at all. I suggested not even any particular speech rights for them. I suggested that their removal via security was the right thing.
You seem to like the idea of a suckerpunch, after security had been called, had responded, had told the protester to "Come with us", and he was walking out under their custody.
That nasty old coot is going to jail, for not having any self-control. Or for allowing himself to be taken over by whatever Obama Derangement Syndrome he suffered.
Chuck,
I agree that sucker punching him was wrong. The next person should tell the BLM punk I'm going to teach you a lesson and then crack him.
Or if the BLM punk gets in your face say "please step back now" and when he doesn't then drop him.
But a lot of these BLM punks need an old fashioned punch to teach them.
Interesting to me that this discussion may have somewhat debunked the Internet law discovered by Mike Godwin a couple of decades ago.
The other thing of interest to me is the question of when did the left manage to convert Hitler, Mussolini, and their political systems from left wing socialist authoritarianism to being right wing. We have been marching towards a fascist economic system for quite some time, but the rate accelerated under Obama. His brand of socialism is far closer to that of Mussolini, than it ever was to communism. What must always be remembered is that the totalitarianism that is so tied to fascism (or communism) is necessary in order to impose such a financial system over a recalcitrant populace.
Chuck,
Removing them by security hasnt stopped them from pulling this shit. A court order enjoining them from going to the mall to bully holiday shoppers didn't stop them. They think it's all fun and games.
They need to learn what the rest of learned before we were adults. And they way we learned it was often the hard way.
Bernie's friend,José Daniel Ortega Saavedra is cozy with the Chinese who are proposing to build a canal from the Pacific to the Caribbean via the once lovely Lake Nicaragua.
Bernie's pal is hardly a friend of the good ole environment Nicaragua-wise.
I happen to like Nicaragua and I am as down with development as the next right winger but I would say this deal is going, how to say this, too far. Beautiful place. Beautiful lake, 19th largest in the world. Sharks live there. Currently.
Amanda, please. Would Lenin, Castro or Chavez make you more comfortable? There are all these important ideological divisions with socialism and communism but everyone on the right is Hitler. I know it's just trolling but your stuff is pretty lame
You know something, mccullough? Your man agrees with you. Of all of the stories on this crime, Drudge picks this one:
http://news.yahoo.com/elderly-us-man-charged-assault-trump-rally-214622210.html;_ylt=AwrC1jHwGuJWGW8AL8bQtDMD;_ylu=X3oDMTBybGY3bmpvBGNvbG8DYmYxBHBvcwMyBHZ0aWQDBHNlYwNzcg--
He (one John McGraw) supplied this wonderful quote, which will be useful at the time of his sentencing:
"We don't know who he is but we know he's not acting like an American," McGraw said.
"Yes, he deserved it. The next time we see him, we might have to kill him."
Chuck,
Your leftist bullshit doesn't work on me. We have a civil society because people adhere to social norms. When a group of people rely on the rest of us to keep adhering to social norms while they blithely disrupt social order, then they need to be taught a lesson so that they can conform their conduct to social norms.
No one is saying that someone should be punched because of their beliefs or length of their hair or color of their skin. We are talking about BLM who have repeatedly engaged in disruptive behavior. Their conduct has far exceeded the social bounds of civil behavior but they rely on the rest of us adhering to it so they can continue their bullshit tactics.
They aren't listening to reason about why their tactics are wrong or counterproductive. So they need to be taught things they should have learned when they were kids they way that punk kids learn them. The hard way. A punch to the face or the gut and a lite admonition to knock it off.
I don't give a shit about Trump and am not voting for him. I do care about social order and it is maintained by the citizenry not the police. It always has been
mccullough, I think you've made your position very clear now. Clear enough that you won't soon be able to back down from it.
I think that a court, with a jury and a neutral magistrate, with a defendant's right to an attorney -- a court-appointed attorney if Mr. John McGraw doesn't have enough money to hire his own lawyer -- will also be shown as part of your "civil society." Do you think that such instruments of a criminal justice system should not be part of a civil society?
We shall see.
I'm interested that you won't be supporting Trump and won't vote for him. So your personal animus and favorable view toward this thuggish vigilante battery is unconnected to any politics? Interesting.
It's outrageous to expect no one to protest at a political rally. It's the American way.
Nope. There’s nothing sacrosanct about protest. The audience was attending a private event in order to hear the speaker. Protest outside, adhering to local ordinances, or be hauled out unceremoniously. Security at the Democrat National Convention will do the same unless they want the spectacle of chaos during their speeches.
The old coot who elbowed the protester deserves what he is going to get. The cops should have arrested him on the spot. Blame the cops, not Trump, for that oversight.
Still, I also believe Trump was very wrong when he talked about hitting a protester at a previous rally. I doubt it will happen again after this object lesson but I will be watching. More violent rhetoric of a similar nature and I’m off the Trump supporter list.
I have no problem with Trump showing his scorn for the protesters because I believe they deserve derision. Get’em out, haul’em out. Don’t make any bones about it. But never promote violence.
The other incident involving the Breitbart reporter is different. I’m bothered that it is predicated on the word of one eyewitness: another reporter. The reporter involved doesn’t actually know who manhandled her, the recording made that clear – which I find kind of odd. If someone grabs me by the arm I’m going to be able to see who it is.
Given that most MSM types dislike Trump and are biased against him, that even a false story is tempting because of Trump’s tangential involvement and the fact that eyewitness testimony is notoriously unreliable I’m going to wait to see if more reliable evidence surfaces before I pass judgement.
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