Cillizza writes:
The building... holds 8,000 people, and local officials were estimating that it was filled to capacity or beyond. That is a MASSIVE amount of people — especially considering that the high temperature in Lowell yesterday was 29 degrees and Trump's rally didn't start until the evening....Meanwhile, how many people showed up for Bill Clinton's first outing yesterday in Nashua? 720.
[T]he willingness of so many people to wait so long in such cold temperatures simply for the chance to see Trump speak would suggest that the idea that his supporters won't be the sort of people to sit through the long caucus process of Iowa or turn out to vote in the frigid cold of New Hampshire might be misguided.
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101 comments:
Cue the comparisons to the Nuremberg Rally.
... the idea that his supporters won't be the sort of people to sit through the long caucus process of Iowa or turn out to vote in the frigid cold of New Hampshire might be misguided.
That might just be the case. However a lot depends on the savvy of Trump's Iowa ground operation.
If Trump is the candidate, he won't be the first Democrat to successfully run as a Republican, Bloomberg pioneered that route. I suspect Trump's Democrat roots help his popularity in working class cities like Lowell.
Trump has changed the political dynamic. To deny his appeal to large segments of the voting population is to deny reality. These segments do not appear to be traditional "Conservatives" - but more of the "Reagan Democrats" from yonder. There is some overlap between the two groups, but they are distinct. The latter is far less idealogically Conservative.
Whatever the case, my primary and personal calculation is whether he is likely to beat Hillary in the General. If he is, count me in.
On the other hand, if he loses Iowa badly and his bubble pops, I'll look more towards Cruz or Rubio.
The GOP should be happy. Whatever your flavor, there's a candidate to largely represent your views. If you're moderate, try Rubio. If you're idealogically Conservative, try Cruz. If you're more populist, try Trump.
If you like weakness and Beta Males, you can try Jeb:)
I don't like Trump but I think it's possible that his support is more bipartisan than anyone wants to admit yet.
We are in uncharted territory in this country. Hillary is the most corrupt person to run for or get this close to the presidency since Aaron Burr. Her use of Bill and the repercussions will amplify her cynicism, perhaps to her ruin.
I will not be surprised by a nuclear war in the middle east in the not too distant future. There is still a lot of isolationism around but it is on the left now. There was a lot on December 6, 1941, too.
Also, Hillary is duller than all royal Hell and nobody really cares about Bill.
Trump needs to start putting names out there. Mention her friends. Mention the deals she cut for her son in law and brothers. Mention Epstein. Mention some of the less reputable donors to the Clinton Foundation.
Drip it all out there.
The anti-Trump crowd misread the degree of anger among the electorate against the established apparatchiks of both parties. Our divider in chief fans the flames with his hail Mary antics to complete his legacy against all citizens, latest of which is his end run around congress against the second amendment. Obama is the proverbial bull in the china shop that is our culture and beliefs. He is damaged goods and his legacy will be known for how he managed to bring together those who believe in the same principles from different parties from his bully pulpit.
There were supposed to be protesters. I had some friends that wanted to go out and protest, I don't know if they went.
Michael K said...I don't like Trump but I think it's possible that his support is more bipartisan than anyone wants to admit yet.
Thousands of commenters here saw this early on, Michael. I don't think Trump has really gotten started yet on the crossover voters.
I don't support political candidates, but Trump has done us a great service.
Both parties abandoned white Christian middle and lower class voters, denouncing them as "bigots" undeserving of representation.
The internet provided a space where those voters could voice their self-interest. Trump saw the opportunity and took it.
The day of the bigotry hysterics, like Meade, shutting down those voters from expressing their self-interest is ending, largely thanks to Trump.
And a big, "Fuck you!" to all the bigotry hucksters on this board. Stick it up your ass. I don't give a shit. Get used to it. More people will be telling you to go fuck yourself every day.
One guy saying "Fuck you, I don't care!" to the bigotry hucksters threw a wrench in the entire system. That's why the crowds. I won't be among them, nor will I campaign for any candidate, but thanks to the Donald for his service.
Blogger Michael K said...
I don't like Trump but I think it's possible that his support is more bipartisan than anyone wants to admit yet.
I agree. Trump should go to the black community and start talking about job losses due to illegal immigration. I think he'd get some traction and the Dems would pass out from hyperventilating.
The Dems need to be punished for their abandonment of the working people and their full embrace of the elites.
You can thank Obama and his corrupt administration for Donald Trumps popularity!!!
Trump, the super Reagan?
There is a precedent for this positive change.
Trump can distinguish himself from Democrats by rejecting their quasi-religious pro-choice doctrine (and other anti-native policies) and from Republicans by mitigating the progress of exceptional corruption.
This is what worries me. I have been holding onto, bitter clinging to if you will, a few things given the rise of Trump. That he is a Clinton mole. That he is actually working on a new reality series and will walk off the next debate. That he will tire of all of this and look for a way to quit.
The final thing I am holding onto is that his support is wide but shallow, that people will not go out to sit around for 3 hours in an Iowa winter's night listening to local party notables talk about mundane housekeeping matters until it is time to vote in the caucus. Or that people in New Hampshire will not wander out to vote.
Then I see things like this.
A Republic -- if you can keep it.
@chuck
Trump doesn't come off as a plutocrat. I think one reason for that is that he made his money doing something most Americans understand. He is basically a developer, and a lot of people in fly over country are at least acquainted with, if not actually friends with, developers.
If he had made his money in the financial sector he would not be appealing to the working class. As far as their concerned people in finance are all crooks. Basically Madoffs that are connected enough to not be prosecuted.
29 degrees is a thing to be noted? In January? In MA?
Trump's support is wider and perhaps even deeper here than most people thought.
Romney barely filled a ballroom in Boston after his primary victory.
It is a little surprise that Bill Clinton had such a small turn-out, I thought he was a major celeb with the Democratic base. Some mitigating factors could be the location: NCC is neither close to down town Nashua nor close to the border with MA--where all the malls and retail outlets are located.
The Tsongas center is in the middle of downtown Lowell, which is a fair sized town and has ample parking plus commuter rail service to Boston. Lowell is a quintessential Reagan-Democrat kind of place, very blue collar. Some of the crowd was likely from University of Mass Lowell, which is right next to the center (most of the dorms are in that part of campus). Some of the crowd were protesters and from what I heard on the radio this morning, they probably helped Trump: They sounded like idiots and gave Trump some nice openings.
My oldest daughter goes to UML and bummed-out that she missed the rally (she isn't a huge Trump fan but is Republican). She missed it due to being in India for the semester break.
It was freezing here last night. I waited 2 minutes for my uber and almost did not go to the hotel to do the air mattress
"Trump should go to the black community and start talking about job losses due to illegal immigration."
I think that has begun but blacks will be very careful about saying anything publicly. Cosby is a warning.
I've gone from disgusted by Trumps campaign to intrigued by it. Althouse, what do you think is happening in American politics?
That rally took place in the bluest of blue states. All Lowell's elected officials and representatives are Democrats and have been for decades. I expect a lot of those people attending were also Democrats. There is a great deal of support for Trump in the Democrat Party, even to the extent that there are rumblings that Trump could win a state like NY in a general election, a feat last accomplished by Republican Ronald Reagan. It's not just the GOP that has caught a case of Trumpmania.
To all who are suggesting that Trump's popularity (whatever it is) has bipartisan elements...
I suspect you're right. Lower-education white males from both parties. A solid minority, like Ross Perot voters, who are less-active Republicans and Democrats alike.
But Shouting Thomas goes too far: "Both parties abandoned white Christian middle and lower class voters, denouncing them as 'bigots' undeserving of representation." When did Republicans ever abandon white Christian middle class voters? When have Republicans "denounced" anyone in their base? (Mind you, Donald Trump is barely a Republican at all, much less a representative of the Republican "base.")
There was a time not too long ago Bill would have demanded $75,000 to speak to fewer than the 720 who came to hear him for zip.
I don't want Trump in the White House, but I'd vote for him over either Dem. candidate. Maybe I'd vote for O'Malley, but his name won't be on the ballot.
There is something very familiar here.
I thought for sure Mitt Romney was going to trounce Obama. I mean, who the hell would vote for Obama twice? Even Ann Althouse was going to vote for Romney. And they kept showing these rallies, huge rallies, all over the county. People waiting in lines wrapping around buildings, all to see Romney.
And then he lost. Badly. There were even areas where over 500 people voted and he didn't get a single votem not one vote!
So, the news of the size of these rallies doesn't mean much to me. I think, for the most part, the Republican primary will be a fair and straight up process. In that respect, the rallies are telling us Trump will take this in a landslide.
But when it comes to the general?
It seems rallies don't mean squat.
He is very popular. Get over it. It is not 1930's germany, or spain. This is america, have a bit more faith. The establishment, the institutions, are corrupt and work against people without connections or the proper political pedigree.
Trump and Sanders are signs people are 'mad as hell, and not going to take it anymore'.
Regardless of who wins this cycle, that anger isn't going away.
The corruption, and power grabbing by obama, clintons, congress, wall street, is so blatant that its hard to hide anymore. The so called Fourth Estate has failed completely to do its job.
There is nothing nuanced or clever going on here. It is past time for that, unless you are a political or image consultant.
The establishment is beginning to see that things are out of control now. They will become increasingly desperate to hold on to their positions.
The most interesting and fun election cycle I can remember. This time its not necessary to yell at the TV, Trump is doing that, in real time.
720? That's a lot for Bill Clinton. Does that count include the young people/props standing behind him while he spoke?
I thought this was an interesting article to ponder:
Thought experiment: what if Trump carried New York?
This is a nightmare year for professional politicians. If Trump can get 8,000 in Lowell and Clinton, just 20 miles away in Nashua, gets only 700, it’s a very bad harbinger. Mass voters are still pissed at the imbecile Deval Patrick who tried to foist the Olympics boondoggle on Boston (and grab a $7,000 a week gig from it). The legislature, that tried to enact an automatic gas tax increase law. The City of Boston, who couldn’t keep the T running last winter and blamed it on stingy taxpayers. It’s also telling that the fake Indian from Harvard is hiding in the witness protection program. This is what happens when you piss off the people who are generally too busy to bother with politics.
Bill Clinton describing the ideas and work ethic of immigrants as potential “meal tickets” for the American economy. That meal ticket might be great if you’re in with the Davos crowd, but not so much if you’re the goose that’s getting cooked.
This is starting to have that 1980 Ronald Reagan feel
The strangest Trump phenomenon is that he says the same thing over everytime, but he holds every audience with some new inflections or new word of emphasis inserted into the familiar poema in each speech. Finally Trump begins sounding normal and the others sounding weak like politicians faking "Presidentialness."
The only down side is that he is having so much fun with the rowdy crowds that it may send some sour puss evangelicals back into the Cruz Cult.
I was at this event, my sixth Trump rally. It was bone chilling cold, with winds off the Merrimack River and assorted canals adding to the chill. Doors to the Tsongas Center opened at 5:00 P.M. The rally was to start at 7:00 P.M. There was a line around the block when I arrived at 4:45 P.M., which is standard for the Trump events. The crowd was a usual mix of supporters, old, young, men, and women, mostly white. Lots of college age men and women, which is something new. One thing stands out to me, no matter what rally I've attended, there is always a mother with her daughter(s) cheering loudly, which is completely out of place for political rallies that I have attended in the past. The Trump rallies have the look, feel and energy level of the national conventions.
Trump was in perfect form last night and the crowd was eating out of his hand. He, "loved," us all and we were, "the smartest people," for being there. He quickly covered all his standard topics and added a new one, a lack of spirit around the country. It occurred to me that he has been training for this job all his life and that he is the perfect man for the times.
The local paper, the Lowell Sun, lied about the number of protesters, which it reported as "...hundreds," when in fact there were never more than forty (and I am being generous) that I could see, in the "Free Speech Area, that was set up across the street from the venue. Maybe more came later after I got into the building, I don't know but the photo the Sun ran with the story showed the hands full of protesters that I had seen.
It bothers me that there are areas marked, Free Speech, in America, this is a slap in the face to all of us.
As an aside, the Tsongas Center, a hockey and basketball arena, on the UMass campus, in Lowell, Mass., has a listed address on search engines as 300 Arcand Drive. On the UMass website it is 300 Martin Luther King Drive with appropriate signage, to see, on the campus. Just an observation.
Hecklers in the audience were quickly silenced by the crowd with chants of "USA, USA" and or "Trump, Trump, Trump," blocking out whatever statement the heckler wanted to make.
After the speech was over, while people were beginning to file out of the building, Trump stayed, signing autographs, shaking hands, and answering people's questions. It wasn't staged, the press wasn't able to get to that part of the floor as Trump was surrounded by the crowd pressing to see him. I don't know how long this went on as once I realized I would never make it through the throng I decided to leave, I was tired, these rallies take a lot of energy, and unlike Trump, I don't have what seems to be an inexhaustible supply of that.
This minority that the left has been crowing about dying off is 67 % of the country . It is white and they have been disrespected , demonized and told to shut up. They are furious It comes from coal workers to workers in factories. It encompasses all those Americans that believe in hard work and the American dream. They are the religious and gun owners that Obama demeaned. No longer. They will go for Trump . They are also democrats and Republicans big time. If their concerns are not addressed by Trump then I suspect that civil war is not far off.
WE know that Obama has declared us as his enemy. Trump is not conservative but he is revenge on the bankers, elites etc. I saw that photo and thin k That Trump will win the election. Our Republic is in tatters from Obama . There may not be much left after Trump. The left asked for tribal politics and now they are seeing it.
"Also, Hillary is duller than all royal Hell and nobody really cares about Bill."
This. Hillary is a terrible, terrible presidential candidate. It's why Obama beat her in 2008, and she is a older and weaker candidate now than she was eight years ago. All she has to run on (given the collapse of Obama's foreign policy which she oversaw) is the fact that she is a woman. That's why Trump's attacks on her covering for Bill are so effective - without the "War on Women", she has nothing to run on.
Whatever the case, my primary and personal calculation is whether he is likely to beat Hillary in the General. If he is, count me in.
Ditto. I'm very solidly in the Anyone-But-Hillary. The very fact that she's the DNC's overwhelming front-runner and Trump is the RNC's overwhelming front-runner speaks volumes about where our grand experiment in democracy is going. In the meantime, though...Anyone But Hillary.
PS - one wonders if she will consider a Hillary Clinton administration to have co-presidents.
Trump has also figured out that concerns about immigration have percolated up from the working classes to the middle classes - the Chamber of Commerce and tech grandees have made it clear that they want to import millions of educated people to hold down wage rates in middle-class jobs. It's not just the people competing for janitorial jobs who are getting hurt by immigration now.
Obama's removal of the caps on the number of H1-B visas used to bring in skilled foreign workers is just an example of where the Government Party wants to go - and is creating millions of new votes for Trump.
Trump's popularity can be explained in one word: Patriotism.
It's the old fashioned, non-nuanced unsophisticated kind. People love it, even after generations of "Blame America First" and eight years of President "We're not exceptional".
If radical Muslims are killing Californians, keep 'em all out until we can figure out who the bad ones are. It's our country, we decide who can come here, and screw what they think.
If Mexicans and Central Americans are flooding across the border, build a wall. It's our country, we decide who can come here, and screw what they think.
If you listen to his windbaggery, it all has a common theme. Do what's best for the USA, fight back against our enemies and adversaries, and stop being taken advantage of.
Is he my first choice? No. Could we do worse? Yes.
Maybe it's the fact that I'm a Californian who voted for Arnold for governor. Flashy persona, pushback against the status quo, an outsider with a reasonably conservative reputation. Narcissist, sure, but a capable one. He sounded great!
Elected, arrived in office, made some initial waves, experienced setbacks, gave up a conservative agenda for the rest of his tenure.
The rest of the country might vote for someone like that. I won't do it again.
Trump is for Trump and will do whatever, whenever, makes Trump happy in the moment. What he says now has no bearing on anything. But waddya gonna do? People are drawn to bombast and the ideal of hope and change in someone that fits their model of a great man. Dems had Obama, and Trump is riding the same wave.
All the people who would otherwise be talking about experience and expertise are dazzled by the consumate showman of our era. The salesman sells.
Quaestor,
You are short a 0.
Chuck said:
Lower-education white males from both parties.
Keep telling yourself that, Chuck. Maybe you'll actually believe it one day.
So what? A decent Aerosmith cover band could fill a bigger stadium than that.
Blogger Paddy O said...
Maybe it's the fact that I'm a Californian who voted for Arnold for governor.
Interesting. I've been using Arnie as a reason I will vote for Trump.
I didn't want to vote for Arnie. But I let Hugh Hewitt talk me into it. I wanted to vote for the more conservative candidate, whose name escapes me now but I liked him a lot.
And I've allowed this again and again. With McCain and Romney and Arnie. Ugh.
No more.
I've been ahead of the curve in terms of "getting" Trump since last summer. I believe he will not only be our next president, if they don't kill him, but will be a good one. I think his heart is in the right place and he has the skills to be a pragmatic problem solver. America is like a company that has been run into the ground by bad management, greed, perfidy, and actual disdain for its principals due to the viral rot of cultural Marxism. Trump has the attitude, energy, and chops to tackle this head on. He may fail, indeed we may have already passed over the event horizon, but no one else out there even stands a chance to correct our current suicidal trajectory.
Hagar, you're right. I did understate Clinton's typical fee, which has averaged $194,000 per engagement.
"All the people who would otherwise be talking about experience and expertise are dazzled by the consumate showman of our era. The salesman sells."
Experience and expertise in what? Professional politics? We've had that already. Good and hard. Maybe somebody with experience and expertise in the private sector, coupled with true patriotism is a better bet at this time.
When did Republicans ever abandon white Christian middle class voters?
Repeatedly and for years. Their voters HATE illegal immigration and they keep pushing it down throats. They voted for them to slow down and Obama and they refuse to do anything.
When have Republicans "denounced" anyone in their base?
Their disdain for conservatives is palpable.
"If he had made his money in the financial sector he would not be appealing to the working class. As far as their concerned people in finance are all crooks. Basically Madoffs that are connected enough to not be prosecuted."
Indeed. I saw a Trump speech in Iowa about two weeks ago where he told some anecdote about laying concrete for a new Trump Tower (or whatever). "You have to line up the trucks and do it one after another, you can't lay some, wait, lay some, then wait a day…"
I imagine many in the audience nodding in agreement. Not so much with e.g. a Romney speech describing the headaches of a mutual fund.
@poker1one
Thanks for the hands-on commentary on the Trump event! Nothing better than a first hand account.
Althouse shot to fame, I believe, with her hands-on blogging of the Wisconsin protests over Walker's union initiatives.
Hillary has sewn up the Dem nomination, without much of a fight. She has been coronated by the liberal elite.
Trump, on the other hand, is fighting and earning it, whether one likes him or not. Jeb! certainly didn't fight for it.
At some point, people will have to answer the hypothetical question:
Will the country be better off with Hillary or Trump as Prez?
I'm not necessarily saying Trump will be a good President. That remains to be seen. But, I have no doubt, he will be better than Hillary.
Get serious Paddy. Comparing Trump with an Austrian Body Builder that acted in Super Hero flics and married a Kennedy to match his money with smarts is missing realty on all cylinders.
Kevin said...
Obama's removal of the caps on the number of H1-B visas used to bring in skilled foreign workers is just an example of where the Government Party wants to go - and is creating millions of new votes for Trump.
And despite surface appearances when it comes to SJW protests, I think Trump is wildly popular on college campuses because of that among those student who don't see a future in public sector employment.
Char Char Binks said...
So what? A decent Aerosmith cover band could fill a bigger stadium than that.
Then maybe the Democrats should nominate a decent Aerosmith cover band for president instead of Hillary?
.Meanwhile, how many people showed up for Bill Clinton's first outing yesterday in Nashua? 720.
The gym holds roughly 700 people.
In his solo campaign debut for the 2016 race, the former president gave a capacity crowd of about 700 in Nashua Community College gym a ruminative endorsement of Hillary Clinton that was more personal than political
It occurred to me that he has been training for this job all his life and that he is the perfect man for the times.
Agreed!! Go back, and look at youtube video of Trump doing late night talk shows (Letterman, Leno, Conan). He's been thinking about this for a long time.
.Meanwhile, how many people showed up for Bill Clinton's first outing yesterday in Nashua? 720.
The gym holds roughly 700 people.
Know why one books a rally in a small gym?
Because they doubt they can put enough asses in seats to not draw an embarrassing crowd elsewhere.
She went small because she can only draw small.
It's why a small band plays at a dive bar and not at an arena. Because they cannot draw a decent crowd to an arena. They'd all prefer the arena since it, you know, means more money and more fame.
"The gym holds roughly 700 people."
Good thing he held it there. 700 people in a stadium would have been rather depressing.
A massive NUMBER of people, Chris. People don't come in AMOUNTS.
an Austrian Body Builder that acted in Super Hero flics and married a Kennedy
Q. Why did Arnold Schwarzenegger marry Maria Shriver?
A. They're trying to make bullet-proof Kennedys.
Suppose Trump made a trip to Harney County, Oregon and talked the Bundy militia out of their occupation by promising to come down like a ton of bricks (I think that phrase has a suitably Trumpish ring) on the out of control federal bureaucracies that have made life a living hell for so many decent people in this country. It would be a populist tour de force.
BTW, we need some Trump adjective and nouns. The Clintons have Clintonian, as in "Hillary's ads are well-levened with that special kind of Clintonian mendacity that simultaneously outrages and bores." And they have Clintonista, as in "Mutant Clintonista hatchetman James Carville attacked Trump's challenge to Hillary Clinton to disarm her bodyguards." I'm attracted to "strumpet" as a noun mean a female Trump supporter, but that's as far as my thinking has taken me.
garage mahal wrote: The gym holds roughly 700 people.
Which means that Bill Clinton is sufficiently Clintonian to book a tiny space that can be filled with a tiny audience, rather than a large space liable to be embarrassingly empty.
It is delicious that the Clintonistas are reduced to making excuses even before a single vote has been cast.
When the Party knows the turnout will suck, it selects a tiny venue.
Trump fans think this is something "new." There is nothing new in politics. William Jennings Bryan drew tens of thousands to every single rally he held, hundreds of them, in 1896. He lost to McKinley in a landslide.
Populism always seems to be on the verge of being actually popular in America. Until it inevitably isn't. Every single time.
People will always turn out to see a freak show. Especially marginal people who have nothing else better to do with their time. Then they go back to being marginal when it actually matters and they have to show up and put themselves out for something, like 3 hours on a February night in Iowa. That's what makes them marginal. People who think Trump is awesome for a free rally today will find that the Playstation and the beer are a better option in a month.
Trump continues to not have an organization of any note in any early-voting state. Trump continues to not have any reputable local elected leaders willing to endorse him. Trump continues to not be spending any of his own money to get elected. IOW, Trump continues to act like a celebrity playing at being a politician rather than an actual professional politician trying to win an election.
And in the end, the professionals always win. Always. Because their job depends on them winning. That's why it's their profession and not something they are play-acting at.
Cruz will win Iowa, probably going away. Rubio will be in second. A week later, Rubio will win NH, with Cruz in 2nd. Trump will quit shortly thereafter.
The election has always been a contest between Rubio and Cruz. They have always been the two who wanted it the most and have been willing to do whatever it takes. For real, not just to get attention and satisfy their ego.
Trump fans are marginal people for a reason. They will find that out again, in spades, once the voting actually starts.
If Clinton is paying her husband to speak, that's an issue Trump should make on the campaign trail.
Look, I'm a billionaire. I don't need your money. But the Clinton's? They take your donations, wash it through their charity, and take nice, lavish, vacations, all on your dime! Did you see how much they paid themselves for Bills speech?!
The gym holds roughly 700 people.
Doesn't mean his popularity is waning. I just think his appeal is becoming more selective.
So..if they ban Trump, should they ban Trump supporters too?
Which means that Bill Clinton is sufficiently Clintonian to book a tiny space that can be filled with a tiny audience, rather than a large space liable to be embarrassingly empty.
Okay. Next time there is an event for a Republican candidate at a diner in Iowa that holds 30 people I'll make sure to get your hot electoral take.
Paddy O "Maybe it's the fact that I'm a Californian who voted for Arnold... made some initial waves, experienced setbacks, gave up a conservative agenda for the rest of his tenure."
I was there, and was shocked when he flipped on Prop 71/the $billions for publicly funded human embryonic stem cell research. After he flipped, it was all downhill from there--they owned him. I couldn't figure out why (I was in the Capitol area at the time) and now we know how--they knew about the child with the maid, and he was not man enough to own up to it and thus allowed himself to be blackmailed. Really sad.
IMHO, Trump is a different phenomenon than Arnold. I urge to take another look at him. Initially I was amused by him (maybe for similar reasons as our Arnold experience) but the more I learned about him, and most importantly came to realize he is the most likely to beat Clinton, the more I admired him.
Another factor--I really believe they are going to dump Clinton. It will be some bizarro ticket that will have at least one of these people on it: Warren, Biden, Wasserman-Schultz, Michelle Obama, or Sanders. Given that, Trump is the most agile and savvy to overcome and outsmart any late change(s) the D's make to their ticket.
"Trump fans are marginal people for a reason."
Clueless. Peek out from your bubble sometime.
The gym holds roughly 700 people.
Puppet Show
and Bill Clinton
The bailouts in 2008 of the least deserving among us are coming home to roost. Both parties went along with it, and nobody on Wall Street so much as missed a bonus. Is it any wonder that so many of us hold the political establishment in contempt? This can't be fixed until somebody comes down hard on the financial industry. I doubt that Trump will, but none of the other candidates appear ready to either.
"When have Republicans "denounced" anyone in their base?"
During the Bush years, the paleocons accused the neocons of reading them out of the party.
Specifically, Jerry Pournelle accused David 'axis of evil" Frum of reading him and his fellow paleocons out of the party.
Okay. Next time there is an event for a Republican candidate at a diner in Iowa that holds 30 people I'll make sure to get your hot electoral take.
If they hold a CAMPAIGN RALLY there, you should make fun of them.
You don't bring out the "big guns" for a meet and greet at a diner.
For sure I will vote for James Taggart, I mean Donald Trump.
Society advances with crony capitalism, doesn't it?
I attended a Sarah Palin event in SW FL that filled a very large venue and still left hundreds of folks standing outside in the rain who wanted to see her. It was electric. Meanwhile, a Biden event that same week was moved from a large facility to a much smaller one since it was clear that any folks that showed up would be rattling around in emptiness.
Unfortunately, the election results in Florida and nationwide didn't reflect that same enthusiasm. We just cannot let another leftie get elected president. My problem is that we don't know what Trump really thinks about Obamacare and a multitude of other issues that plague us due to the libruls and the social justice warriors.
- Krumhorn
Another aspect is Lowell MA is an economically depressed area, hard core democrat. Used to have a lot of textile and shoe factories. Malden Mills, maker of fleece, was there until the plant burned. It may still be there. It is pretty far from Boston. This is NOT republican territory. I would be interested to see the political profile of those in attendance...
Paddy O: "All the people who would otherwise be talking about experience and expertise are dazzled by the consumate showman of our era. The salesman sells."
Oh.
"All the people..."
Not "some", or even "many", but "all".
Does that qualify as exaggeration?
I've read a few things lately that suggest all is well for the party elites because the demographics of Trump supporters is also the demographic of people who don't sow up on election day.
To me that means if Trump can get these people to show up on election day, he will win.
And, no, I don't want to see Trump win. I will not vote for him if he is the GOP nominee, because he is not a conservative. These days I favor Cruz, with misgivings because I think he could be the GOP's Obama.
"damikesc" tried to answer my questions:
When did Republicans ever abandon white Christian middle class voters?
Repeatedly and for years. Their voters HATE illegal immigration and they keep pushing it down throats. They voted for them to slow down and Obama and they refuse to do anything.
When have Republicans "denounced" anyone in their base?
Their disdain for conservatives is palpable.
Let's start with this last Trumpkin talking point. It is ridiculous! Go to any of the usual daily diaries of conservative American thinking -- the Weekly Standard, the National Review, the American Spectator, the editorial page of the Wall Street Journal, Reason -- for decades, these have been the go-to sources of news an commentary for college-educated American conservatives. And if you go to any of them now, you will find widespread denunciations of Trump, with widely scattered pockets of determined support for Trump. There's no conspiracy -- there is intense disagreement, with most conservatives expressing severe doubt about Trump. Those audiences tilt toward higher college education and higher incomes.
There is the talk radio crowd of Laura Ingraham, Rush Limbaugh, Mark Levin, Sean Hannity, David Savage. I personally like and respect Laura, and I find Rush amusing. But to a great extent, none of them are really about policy or even process, and they are mostly about scandal and anger and the news cycle. That is where the Trump crowd finds a home. These aren't by any means the best conservatives. They are all fantastically eager to forgive Trump for things that they'd never forgive in an opponent (Democrat or otherwise); Trump's flip flops on the assault weapons ban, abortion, taxes, his warm relations with the Clintons and their foundation, ObamaCare and universal health coverage, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. And the talk radio listeners are really angry. But they aren't terribly conservative. Nationalistic, yes. Pro-military, yes (although Trump says he was against the Iraq war). But also protectionist; maybe pro-union; maybe pro-regulation on Wall Street, etc., etc.
So please do not bother me with the phony claim that Donald Trump is leading the Republican field because Trump is the best conservative. In fact Trump is the worst conservative, by far, and I suspect that Trump is doing so well because he is so unmoored from any constraints felt by any normal Movement Conservative and he's drawing angry activist non-Republicans into the Republican race.
And the 720 who showed up for Clinton were formerly hot Boomer chicks thinking "Next time it might be me"
Sarc/off
All we need now is for some women to carry mattresses at Bill Clinton rallies.
Rub the Clintons noses in it.
My mind-boggling crowd shot will leave absolutely no doubt that Tom Reagan in Miller's Crossing was not-of-character absent-minded when not applied to us know, here, today, as of, for, and by in many ways of, oaks.
Everything seemingly insane is done by Leftists after calculation for power; the useful idiots Lenin labeled don't consciously understand that*, and the useful 'wise' of the GOP simply don't care rhetoric works better than logic when in the public process of winning votes that can result in more action than impotently screaming at conservatives they had better shut up and take it, whatever it may be that day, including paying taxpayer dollars to enrich Planned Parenthood by harvesting human body parts in utero so top execs can buy a Lamborghini.
"I support equality for everyone, everywhere, especially those outside the mainstream without a genuine American voice heard to their own concerns. For this reason I cannot support gay marriage as proposed today as it discriminates on persons, places, things, ideas and events that could potentially be discriminated against using the current language, and that will NOT happen on my watch Sir." You see, if you aren't against gay marriage but instead righteously against discriminating against those not identified as straight or gay it is harder to be labeled a homophobic simpleton, though of course the label will be weaponized and hurled anyway at some point. The idea is prove to everyone capable of learning that that label doesn't fit you. That label, hater in today's vernacular, only applies to the folks wanting to limit American's freedom to gays and straights 2 at a time.
"Trayvon was a young American and it is horrible what happened that night, especially for the young man's suffering family. I had to ask myself Can I cast aspersions/stones and for me, I cannot, at least not without looking into the soul of everyone involved, like Bush looked into Putin's soul."
These "insane" people that write the talking points the media and pop culture will absorb know how you will respond to various stories using facts and evidence such as forensics in addition to eyewitness accounts, as they know the facts too. They also know showing you had AA after losing to 7-2 offsuit only makes losers feel good or bad, as opposed to as indifferent as possible which ought be the goal of the process in order to reduce emotions clouding judgment.
If you can't understand why attaining power is something Leftists are experts at please reconsider your presumptions, even though I agree they squander most power gained with an attitude of nihilism dominating I can't describe with enough vitriol, and hence won't try.
Churchill taught Obama how to write history, and Obama did "win" as he told the Way-Worse-Than-Lowell-Weicker (from a quasi-Buckley perspective including detestment of abortion) GOP at the time.
Some people are not going to understand why when the debt becomes an issue like global bullcrap is now, Obama won't take nor will even be assigned all or most of the blame since the GOP controlled congress' purse power theoretically (and eminently arguable). The GOP thinks anyone that doesn't understand that everything they did was the most Milton Friedmanesque conservative use of government imaginable is ignorant, that's all. They are just ignorant, them over there who didn't know Ted Cruise would cost the GOP the darn Senate in 2014 with his wild whacko crazy talk.
*They understand to not rock the boat, just not why to not rock it. I Kid Rock it and have no such qualms having the song "Cocky" from his album of the same title in my brain's deepest of unconscious, and up all the way through each reference made, including a verse or two as well as the entire lyrics copied and pasted but discluding any Freudian slips.
Yo I just saw taday yoes onTMZ bitch where da fuch Chance
CHance be hottest hoppest HIPPST sht yo!!
Is you is be fucking with me? Fucking with me yu be? B you me fuckin' bro somehoe? Is that what you dop do me? Is you andme fucking with me? Yo that there you be doin' is it me to yeah I fuckin' know/ k fuck I know you doing it to me. I you me you doin to me you to me kkow you doing to mee you knjow you to me
to me
you to me to me to me to me
hyo to me you do that to me to met that whgt bnyou todo me to dm meyou do to me to me to me to me to me to mt.
You spelled it wrong. It's movement cuckservatives. Get ready for the drubbing you deserve.
Rocketeer said...
Puppet Show
and Bill Clinton
Billary goes up to 11.
Anybody who uses the word "cuckservative" is by definition, marginal. And deservedly so.
And when I say that person is marginal, I mean "white nationalist, anti-Catholic, racist, Stormfront, Alex Jones conspiracy theory, black helicopters" marginal.
Because that's what people who use that term are. If you are using that term, you need to re-think a lot of the choices you've made in your life.
The "bubble" that someone who would use that term is in is an infinitesimally small bubble of internet comment sections spewing paranoia that all the brown Spanish-speaking Papist foreigners are coming to take "their" jobs and women.
So please do not bother me with the phony claim that Donald Trump is leading the Republican field because Trump is the best conservative.
Conservatives don't support Trump because they love Trump. Conservatives support Trump because they hate the Washington establishment as much as they hate the Democrats.
So please do not bother me with the phony claim that Donald Trump is leading the Republican field because Trump is the best conservative.
So who is claiming Trump is a conservative? Is a capitalist a conservative? Trump is certainly a capitalist – one of the best capitalists we have. And he seems to be worried about the national debt, a worry that must be noted that is also shared by many conservatives. Trump is also strongly pro-Second Amendment, which is my personal litmus for any politician wanting my vote. I see Trump as a reform-minded right-of-center moderate with libertarian leanings. Just my cup of tea – me being neither a conservative nor a liberal but someone who usually votes for Republicans.
… he's drawing angry activist non-Republicans into the Republican race.
I see it is beginning to dawn on some, especially the commentors on this blog, that Trump is going to draw significant crossover votes and is gaining unexpected support from some demographics traditionally locked up by the Democrat party.
And maybe they are “angry.” But who that are drawn to Trump are NOT “angry?” Or at least disgusted at the last few years of American politics and world events? These new recruits are apparently disquieting to some. Me? I say the more the merrier.
Blogger Anthony said...
"A Republic -- if you can keep it."
A little late to be worrying about that, don't you think?
"And when I say that person is marginal, I mean "white nationalist, anti-Catholic, racist, Stormfront, Alex Jones conspiracy theory, black helicopters" marginal."
Except I for one am none of those things. You are a small minded bigoted man, and actually the one on the margins. If you could crawl out of that bubble you'll find a whole host of people who don't conform to your stupid narrow categorizations. When Trump wins the White House half of the satisfaction will be the fun of watching assholes like you and Chuck melt down. Good times.
Let's start with this last Trumpkin talking point.
Cruz guy here, so you're off on a winning start.
Go to any of the usual daily diaries of conservative American thinking -- the Weekly Standard, the National Review, the American Spectator, the editorial page of the Wall Street Journal, Reason -- for decades, these have been the go-to sources of news an commentary for college-educated American conservatives. And if you go to any of them now, you will find widespread denunciations of Trump, with widely scattered pockets of determined support for Trump. There's no conspiracy -- there is intense disagreement, with most conservatives expressing severe doubt about Trump. Those audiences tilt toward higher college education and higher incomes.
Goodie for them. You cannot find a poll with anything resembling support for illegal immigration yet the GOP is pushing that as hard as the Dems. Why?
People don't like that the H1 visa process is fucking over American workers --- but the GOP is pushing it as hard as the Dems. Why?
They can hate Trump all they want. Kristol has said he'd vote 3rd party if Trump wins, which just shows that their demand for unity to beat Democrats is bullshit.
So please do not bother me with the phony claim that Donald Trump is leading the Republican field because Trump is the best conservative.
Which board are you reading because nobody here has claimed he is the best conservative. Perhaps you should respond to what is written.
"The building... holds 8,000 people, and local officials were estimating that it was filled to capacity or beyond. That is a MASSIVE amount of people." in English would read "The building... holds 8,000 people, and local officials were estimating that it was filled to capacity or beyond. That is a HUGE number of people," since we can't speak of "amount" of something that is normally counted, like people or data. (8000 pounds of people or data could be a MASSIVE amount.)
Black YouTubers Diamond and Silk backing Trump with this rally cry to blacks: “Ditch and switch!”
@Paul When Trump wins the White House half of the satisfaction will be the fun of watching assholes like you and Chuck melt down. Good times.
The last thing I want is to turn the nuclear codes over to that nut, as fun as it would be to watch the meltdown. Trump is a disaster waiting to happen and he will never be president.
@Jupiter
A little late to be worrying about that, don't you think?
Better late then never
SockPuppet said: Anybody who uses the word "cuckservative" is by definition, marginal. And deservedly so.
But then...
And when I say that person is marginal, I mean "white nationalist, anti-Catholic, racist, Stormfront, Alex Jones conspiracy theory, black helicopters" marginal.
Irony and projection. So entertaining.
The Trump event at the Tsongas, as Poker1one noted, was great. The crowd was enthusiastic. The protestors did their thing and then moved out as escorted by the police. Mr Trump fed off the enthusiasm of the crowd. I was impressed with the variety of Press, including The Young Turks TV, out of LA. Patriotism was there. A color guard from the Franco American Veterans Organization in town. Your correspondent led the Pledge of Allegiance.
It was a mixed crowd. I saw a woman and her daughter with Hillary T-Shirts. A friendly person. My wife (in a different part of the arena) and a woman behind her, who she didn't know, exchanged photos via EMail.
Poker1one, if you want to come to the local Lowell Republican City Committee meeting on Thursday, it will be at the VFW on Plain Street, at 7:00 PM.
Regards — Cliff
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