Althouse: "I know it seems morbid, but you really should visualize what you would do in various situations were an active shooter to suddenly intrude upon the scene."

December 3, 2015

"I know it seems morbid, but you really should visualize what you would do in various situations were an active shooter to suddenly intrude upon the scene."

"What would your plan be if you were in the office and heard shots coming from the floor beneath you? Would you have time to run? If so, where would you go? If you heard the shots just down the hallway and there’s no place to run or hide, what would be your next step? Visualize your plan in as much detail as possible."

88 comments:

Tom said...: I know one thing, I'm traveling more by car so I can pack a firearm. As Mia Angelou said, you don't play baseball with a glove on each hand, you have to be able to throw something back.; 12/3/15, 1:59 PM
David said...: "Would you have time to run? If so where would you go?"

Some would run towards the shooter. Most likely the ones with military training. It's not the normal impulse to run towards someone who wants to kill you.; 12/3/15, 2:00 PM
Wince said...: Should I assume that visualizing the shooter in his or her underwear won't work?; 12/3/15, 2:06 PM
Meade said...: "Be creative! Once the shooter is disoriented, rush him and take him down."

Or rush her and take her down (in case it's a she, terro/touring on a "fiancée visa".); 12/3/15, 2:08 PM
Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...: The guns everywhere hysterics have made us feel as safe as we did in the middle of the cold war. Heckuva job, guys.; 12/3/15, 2:15 PM
MadisonMan said...: Duck...and Cover?

At least with an active shooter, there are things to do. With a nuclear bomb blast (My chief irrational fear while growing up) you're pretty much toast.; 12/3/15, 2:15 PM
eric said...: Draw my weapon. Make sure its loaded.

The rest is all up in the air. Situational.; 12/3/15, 2:16 PM
Hammond X. Gritzkofe said...: I'll go with what is taught in our Texas CHL classes: conflict avoidance; try to stay out of dangerous or threatening areas. Where ever possible I avoid "GUN FREE" zones. Where ever possible I go armed.; 12/3/15, 2:18 PM
TrespassersW said...: Does it seem morbid to buy life insurance, or to hold fire drills, or to take first aid and CPR training? Bad stuff happens and the adult thing to do is to train yourself to handle bad stuff.; 12/3/15, 2:18 PM
JPS said...: It's a good article, but I'm not sure Fight! should be Plan C.

For a given individual, A = Run, B = Hide, C = Fight will maximize the chance of survival.

For the group, I think the casualties would be lower if everyone fought, immediately, every time. That's not to say it'll work every time. It won't, and even when it does, some people will get killed. But I think we'd see a lot fewer of these incidents in the long run if several in a row ended like the TGV attack; if the would-be shooter knew he'd get pounced on by more people than he can shoot. Suicidal killers may not be afraid of death, but they are still afraid of dying ineffectually.

It's fine to say, Ah, but those young Americans on the train had military training. Yes - but the middle-aged Professor Moogalian did not, and he went after the shooter right after the anonymous Frenchman went down. Neither, as far as I know, did the middle-aged Brit who later said he wanted to hunker down, but he saw the Americans moving and decided to back them up.

The Army taught me that if I'm caught in a near ambush, I need to turn into it and charge: I will probably die, but at least I can take some of the bastards down with me. What no one's explained to me is how the Active Shooter scenario is anything but a specific case of near ambush.; 12/3/15, 2:24 PM
campy said...: Or rush her and take her down (in case it's a she, terro/touring on a "fiancée visa".)

Meade endorses violence against women!!!; 12/3/15, 2:26 PM
harrogate said...: At this point, if you don't have some sort of plan you're just being obtuse .; 12/3/15, 2:30 PM
Bilwick said...: Robert Cook and garage mahal would drop to their knees (which given their masochistic serf-tendencies they seem to live on most of the time anyway) and pray to their god for deliverance:

https://grrrgraphics.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/shrine_of_the_statists1.jpg; 12/3/15, 2:31 PM
HoodlumDoodlum said...: Now now, don't anyone start thinking for yourself, considering your own security/safety, and taking seriously the idea that you should be responsible for yourself and for providing for your own security and protection (and for that of your family, etc). Better to just complain about "guns" or the NRA, loudly whine about the lack of police protection (yesterday you complained about too much policing, but never mind), make sure you and all the law-abiding people around you are disarmed and as vulnerable as possible...otherwise you might turn into one of those bad, scary people who think the 2nd Amendment applies to questions of providing for individual, personal self-defense or, even worse, into someone who believes self-defense is a human right! You know, a real reactionary, a kook.

No, better to not worry your pretty little head about such things. Your own self-regard and personal cloud of smug will protect you.; 12/3/15, 2:31 PM
Monkeyboy said...: Don't just think about tragedies, prepare for them. Fires, gas line explosions, car accidents, and yes, shootings.
Cops, firemen and soldiers will tell you that basic care will keep people alive long enough for the professionals to arrive.
I'll resubmit my link to a blowout kit and add the .pdf for combat lifesaver course.

Learn the local laws on self defense. Take a course in a martial art (defense focused), My SWAT brother prefers electricity and impact weapons to pepper spray, as people mostly just mace themselves. (building evacuated for unknown smell making people sick> Someone's mace went off in their purse.)

In the air count how many seat backs there are between you and the nearest exit so you can find it in the dark. Having done the helo dunker in the Navy I'm religious about that.; 12/3/15, 2:35 PM
HoodlumDoodlum said...: JPS said...For a given individual, A = Run, B = Hide, C = Fight will maximize the chance of survival.

For the group, I think the casualties would be lower if everyone fought, immediately, every time.

I agree, and spoke with a friend of my about that when the Paris attacks were in the news. We decided what's needed in a situation like that is for everyone to embrace the idea that you're already dead--sort of like the Flight 93 people did. For them obviously there was no hope of escape, but you need that same mindset in many of these mass shooting cases, too. Once you understand you can't avoid being killed it's obvious you should attack immediately, if only to try and take one with you and/or make them waste resources and initiative dealing with you. The calculus is different if you're protecting your spouse or kids, clearly, but thinking about the proper attitude you should have in such a situation in advance is a good idea.; 12/3/15, 2:38 PM
tim in vermont said...: You can't be afraid of these people. I am flying on Monday. Whatever.

The guns everywhere hysterics have made us feel as safe as we did in the middle of the cold war. Heckuva job, guys.

Awww. Are you scared? Probably because you are sort of math illiterate. There are 320 million people in the US. Shit happens. But feel free to advocate for the repeal of 2A.

I am going to go with Ben Franklin and say that those who will sacrifice their freedom for "safety" end up with neither.; 12/3/15, 2:47 PM
Achilles said...: AReasonableMan said...
"The guns everywhere hysterics have made us feel as safe as we did in the middle of the cold war. Heckuva job, guys."

How stupid you must feel.; 12/3/15, 2:52 PM
HoodlumDoodlum said...: AReasonableMan said...The guns everywhere hysterics have made us feel as safe as we did in the middle of the cold war. Heckuva job, guys.

What the hell, ARM? That's serious? Geez, I'm not supposed to make personal attacks on other commenters but if you're serious it'll be hard to avoid!

I have a lot more respect for people who took the threat seriously and thought deeply about how to live, plan, and survive in risky, dangerous circumstances during the Cold War than I do for people who alternated between pretending the problem wasn't real and focusing only on blaming their political opponents for the problem (and doing nothing to address the problem itself).

You blame those who favor legal, responsible personal firearm ownership for the fears people feel about the possibility of being the victim of a terrorist or criminal mass shooting. Weirdly everything turns out to be the fault of those people you dislike, even though they themselves aren't the terrorists or criminals who murder people. If you could only get rid of all your political and ideological opponents--what a safe, happy world it would then be.; 12/3/15, 2:52 PM
Todd said...: "I know it seems morbid, but you really should visualize what you would do in various situations were an active shooter to suddenly intrude upon the scene."

Morbid? No, not at all. It is called planning and it is called situational awareness. Doesn't have to be a "shooter", could be a simple robbery or mugging. Bad shit happens all the time. It is only common sense to figure out what you would do if "stuff happens" where you are. I know a number of people that go through this sort of exercise all the time, where ever they are. These are the people that don't run around like lunatics when "shit happens". Everyone has a right to be afraid in "suddenly bad" situations but you should have an idea what you would do if something goes wrong. Some would call that being paranoid but what would you do right now if, where ever your are, a fire brakes out? What would you do if a car comes crashing through the wall? If the person next to you has a heart attack? Or if some nutter with a gun starts shooting? This is simply thinking ahead and having a plan. If thinking what to do in a fire is not paranoid, why should thinking what to do if a robber shows up or a nutter with a gun?; 12/3/15, 2:53 PM
Mark said...: Run. So what if that means that other people get slaughtered? You might save your own sorry rear-end by running away. That's the most important thing. Abandon them. Every man for himself!

Hide. Cower under some desk or in some closet. By staying, but hiding, you can still hear the others being killed. Of course, eventually the killer is going to get to you. But at least you've bought yourself an extra three minutes.

Defend yourself and others. Grab a pen, a pair of scissors and jab it in the guy's back or ear. Incapacitate him long enough for others to jump him. Yes, you might get hurt or killed in the process. But at least you are a man. And a hero.; 12/3/15, 2:55 PM
khesanh0802 said...: After the Paris attacks I checked my wallet for my carry permit and found it missing. Since I have replaced it, I have been increasingly thinking about when I will actually carry my pistol. When I was in my 20's - and immortal - rushing the gunman made a certain amount of sense. In my 70's , having lost several steps, I need an alternative. I have it. It is a .45 caliber alternative!; 12/3/15, 2:59 PM
Achilles said...: The biggest part will be to avoid Gun Free Zones. They are magnets for active shooters.

You can't "Plan" a gunfight. You prepare for a gun fight.

Preparations often look like plans but that isn't right. You can put people in positions and have clear fields of fire, blocking positions etc. but as soon as bullets fly you are reacting and any "Plan" is just as likely to be an inhibition as a benefit.

Being a hard target is important. These people are cowards and will always go for the most vulnerable. I still view it as my responsibility as a capable citizen to protect as many of those around me as I can but since these events invariably happen in places where you can't have guns I will be unlikely to be there.; 12/3/15, 3:01 PM
Charlie Eklund said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 12/3/15, 3:06 PM
Larry J said...: We had that training at work a couple months ago. Since my workplace formally prohibits firearms inside, I'll likely go with run or hide. The stairwell is about 50 feet from my office. If that's too congested or if the shots are coming from that direction, I'll hide. However, knowing many of my coworkers, there likely will be some lead flying in the other direction, policy be damned.; 12/3/15, 3:08 PM
HoodlumDoodlum said...: Monkeyboy said...
Don't just think about tragedies, prepare for them.

Hysteria, Monkeyboy. I blame you for spreading fear. Shame.; 12/3/15, 3:11 PM
Monkeyboy said...: Additional comment--

If you are going to carry any sort of weapon you must be mentally prepared to use it otherwise don't bother. For most people hurting someone doesn't come natural, hurting someone and then hurting them some more is near impossible.
When my teenage son started taking Ty Kwon Do my wife told me to talk to him about self defense. "Son if someone tries to take you (never ever go anywhere with an abductor) use one of your holds, they may cry and they may apologize but you are to apply pressure until a bone breaks, then run and find help, he'll be easier to find at the hospital."
Be realistic about what you are going to do, or don't do it.; 12/3/15, 3:12 PM
exhelodrvr1 said...: Monkeyboy,
"Having done the helo dunker in the Navy I'm religious about that."

I HATED doing that with a passion!! But friends who went through actual over-water crashes said that it was great preparation. I do the same thing as you with airliners.; 12/3/15, 3:13 PM
Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...: tim in vermont said...
Awww. Are you scared?

Not in the slightest. You can tell because I don't need the comfort blanket of a loaded gun to feel safe walking down the street (unlike some people I could mention).

The ever increasing flux of powerful weapons into our society is neither making us safer nor making us feel safer. It is the definition of idiotic.; 12/3/15, 3:26 PM
Scott M said...: "Make sure you have a plan to kill every person you meet."; 12/3/15, 3:35 PM
n.n said...: Once someone commits to killing, the intended victims have only two choices: die or fight. The rational individual will recognize this as a risk management problem, and pursue reasonable means to mitigate the loss of life. As first responders, the intended victims have a right and moral obligation to act in self-defense.; 12/3/15, 3:39 PM
Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...: harrogate said...
At this point, if you don't have some sort of plan you're just being obtuse .

The sad thing here is that an increasing number of people will end up living their lives like Planned Parenthood employees, always looking out for the dark shadow out there and the quickest route to the 'safe room'. Not my concept of a free society.; 12/3/15, 3:45 PM
Michael K said...: "The guns everywhere hysterics have made us feel as safe as we did in the middle of the cold war."

Says the dope who wants more Muslims imported.

We also had training at work by a very impressive FBI guy. He started the day by walking into our closed facility which has an armed security guy, wearing his open carry firearm. That got a few people's attention. No notice. Just walked in.

His session, which was several hours, was interesting. In a shooting situation hug the floor. Hand grenade, stay up off the floor.

shrapnel goes along the floor.; 12/3/15, 3:51 PM
buwaya said...: As above -

In this situation, God or destiny has called.
Assume its your last turn on stage and make it count.

The odds are extremely low, so I'm not sure of the wisdom of preparation in most parts of the US.
If anything one should probably carry some sort of first aid kit at all times, as that sort of emergency is far more likely than something for which you would need a gun.
Granted, if there is a specific, known risk of violence then one should be armed. Many years ago I used to carry a revolver when working late in downtown Manila, as the place was full of armed robbers.; 12/3/15, 3:59 PM
Ignorance is Bliss said...: I remember a while back discussion about a sign at a US base in Iraq, along the lines of:

Be Pleasant. Be Courteous. Have a plan to kill everyone you meet.

It was not advocating killing everyone you meet. Just being prepared in case you later find out that they needed killing.; 12/3/15, 4:08 PM
MikeR said...: We just had to watch a video at my hospital. If you can't Run or Hide, you're supposed to fight. They showed an image of three workers at the hospital - one was holding a small fan as a weapon, another with a wastebasket. They all looked grim and determined. I could understand the "grim" part for someone holding a wastebasket against an active shooter with a gun. Ridiculous.; 12/3/15, 4:10 PM
The Godfather said...: If people really start doing this, thinking and planning about how to respond to an "active shooter" situation, it's hard to imagine that the anti-gun hysteria can survive. Even if I were someone who can't imagine him/herself being able to shoot the shooter, I could sure imagine myself hoping there's some one in the area who is (a) armed and (b) able to shoot the bastard. If there's an active shooter in the room, there aren't likely to be a lot of people thinking about background checks and gun-show loopholes.; 12/3/15, 4:10 PM
Jupiter said...: AReasonableMan said...
"The guns everywhere hysterics have made us feel as safe as we did in the middle of the cold war. Heckuva job, guys."

No, no ARM. The party line is "If they have made us fear them, the terrorists have won." Doesn't make a lot of sense, but there it is. Parrot it.

Speaking of the office scenario, I would be fired immediately, and walked off the lot, if I brought a gun to work and my employer found out. But I think they might not care about pepper spray. Where does pepper spray fit in the tactical calculus?; 12/3/15, 4:18 PM
Sydney said...: I'm pretty sure I would move to the opposite direction as the shooter as fast and as far as I could. I say this, because that is what I did this weekend when we took our son back to The Ohio State University and found the main street all blocked off by police. When we tried to go around the block, everything was blocked off in the back, too. By that time I had discovered on the iPhone via Google that there was a shooter in the art museum. At the same time we saw a policeman taking a rifle out of his trunk. All of that was happening to our left, so I turned right and kept going as far away as I could while remaining on campus. Turned out, it was an ex-employee who shot himself in the museum after vandalizing some artwork. No one else was hurt, but they had that area roped off for several hours. In retrospect, they were probably looking for bombs and booby traps.; 12/3/15, 4:22 PM
readering said...: Hard enough to get people in Southern California to plan for a high Richter Scale earthquake, let alone a mass shooting.; 12/3/15, 4:26 PM
The Godfather said...: BTW, following on Monkeyboy's comment, if part of your planning involves going armed, you really have to think through the implications. Obviously part of that is taking the time to become competent with your weapon, but another part is deciding whether in the event you can kill (or try to kill) another human being. I'm not sure about myself.; 12/3/15, 4:27 PM
Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...: Michael K said...
Says the dope who wants more Muslims imported.

I realize that your memory is not what it once was but try to keep better track of which views different people actually espouse. My mother uses a note pad these days to keep track, maybe you could try that.; 12/3/15, 4:49 PM
Jupiter said...: "If you heard the shots just down the hallway and there’s no place to run or hide, what would be your next step?"

What if there's no hallway? What if you and all your colleagues are cheek-by-jowl in Zuckerberg's gun-free cubicle farm, and a couple representatives of the Religion of Peace are standing under the exit sign, reloading their AK's?; 12/3/15, 4:52 PM
Al&Bea said...: Re: the Godfather's comment - It might help if you realize that the shooter's intent is to kill you. To paraphrase Joe Biden, "Get a gun". In addition, learn how to use it and practice. I have not ever read about an active shooter attacking a site where he knows people may be armed; 12/3/15, 4:54 PM
the gold digger said...: For most people hurting someone doesn't come natural, hurting someone and then hurting them some more is near impossible.

I attended a self-defense class where the instructor said, "You can gouge out the eye of an attacker. But you have to decide if you can live with yourself for doing that."

It had never even occurred to me that someone might be more concerned with the health and wellbeing of a rapist than of herself.

I would gouge out an eye in a second.; 12/3/15, 4:56 PM
jeff said...: Our company not only allows CC, we have CC classes. At any given time there are probably 4 or 5 (out of about 40) people carrying. Oh yeah, we also advertise that there are weapons on the grounds. Kinda like when the progs in NY thought they'd out the gun owners by publishing their addresses, how'd that work out.; 12/3/15, 5:00 PM
wildswan said...: When I was a very new bank teller we were trained on how to handle a bank robbery: "When he says 'give me the money', give him the money." During an attempted bank robbery a note was passed to me but it said "I have gun." I turned it over to see if it said 'give me the money' on the other side but it didn't so I couldn't figure out what to do. I pushed it back to him and said 'what is this?' by which I meant "please say 'give me the money' so I can give it to you and not get shot." He pushed it back but still did not say the magic words. So I turned to next teller and said: "Someone gave me this, what should I do?" After that others took over.

So this true story shows that training on what to do can backfire because the actual situation is so deeply startling. Still we should be mentally prepared. Obama thinks we are mostly stupid f--ks and not really worth protecting, (not as if we were all Kermit Gosnells or returning from jihad in Syria) and that's bound to get some of us killed.; 12/3/15, 5:09 PM
JCC said...: Occurrences of domestic terror or mass shootings are actually few and far between. The chances that I would be wrapped in such are infinitesimal. But having some experience with firearms, I would feel pretty stupid if I did not have access to a gun because it was inconvenient or un-PC and I were to somehow stumble into a shooting incident. I suspect a lot of retired or former military and LE feel much the same way.

And, unlike ARM, I don't mind admitting I feel a little more comfortable walking around heeled. But then, maybe because of the life I have led, I have a better sense of my own mortality than ARM.

And the advice in the OP is very good, although unlikely to be followed by very many. I recently taught a course to local teachers and gave essentially the same instructions, BTW for emergency circumstances beyond just active shooters.; 12/3/15, 5:22 PM
chuck said...: Another take at MHN. The site seems overloaded at the moment.; 12/3/15, 5:28 PM
Henry said...: I've thought about this a number of times. The question I've always asked myself is how would I fight back?; 12/3/15, 5:28 PM
Henry said...: As a bike commuter I spend 20 minutes each morning and night on a train. After that subway shooter in Paris, I noted that my kryptonite bike lock is a 6 lb. hunk of metal with a built in handle. The odds are millions to one, but there it is.; 12/3/15, 5:34 PM
Drago said...: ARMeltdown: "The sad thing here is that an increasing number of people will end up living their lives like Planned Parenthood employees..."

I doubt many others are carving up babies and selling the parts.

Is that what you meant?; 12/3/15, 5:38 PM
Kirk Parker said...: David @ 2:00pm,

You don't have to have to be in the military to learn that mid-distance is the most dangerous place, with any kind of weapon (and with firearms being *beyond* the reach can be measured in kilometers--plus walls are only concealment, not cover, unless they're something like poured concrete.)

Yes, rush the shooter! If you're close enough to grab the barrel, or to push a semiauto handgun out of battery, you've disable the shooter. Now your buddy who joined you in rushing the shooter can take him/her out.; 12/3/15, 5:48 PM
Michael K said...: " Not my concept of a free society."

ARM, I will try to keep track of your left wing sentiments but they are hard to keep straight. So you are now opposed to Syrian immigrants ?

I work in a federal facility that is a likely target. We had a shooter in the parking lot about 6 months ago. It was a boyfriend who was threatening to kill himself if his girlfriend joined the Navy.

It gave me a new insight on her motivation to serve her country.; 12/3/15, 5:55 PM
Anonymous said...: A gun for every man, woman and child. The American Dream. How well has that worked out for us?; 12/3/15, 6:00 PM
exhelodrvr1 said...: Georgie,
"A gun for every man, woman and child. The American Dream. How well has that worked out for us?"
Considering the number of immigrants we get every year, and the number of people on the waiting list to come here, I would say it has worked out pretty well.; 12/3/15, 6:21 PM
buwaya said...: "A gun for every man, woman and child. The American Dream. How well has that worked out for us?"

Not too badly on the whole. One must take the whole picture into account.
Its a big bad messy world, and "well" is relative.; 12/3/15, 6:21 PM
Jupiter said...: BTW, Althouse, since when do you read artofmanliness.com? Were you maybe Googling "Active shooter"? Don't worry, this can't happen at UWisc. Gun free campus.; 12/3/15, 6:29 PM
Kirk Parker said...: wildswan @ 5:09pm:

What you should have been able to do, assuming that the would-be robber didn't have a gun visibly pointed at you, was to draw your own and fire two rounds to center-of-mass. (One-to-the-head would be optional, based on whether the first two rounds appear to have subdued him, and on whether there are people lined up behind him.)

Overwhelming force is how every bank robbery attempt should be responded to. Consider: how many airline hijackings have there been in the US since 9/11/2001?; 12/3/15, 6:29 PM
Drago said...: Georgie: "A gun for every man, woman and child. The American Dream. How well has that worked out for us?"

The most prosperous and powerful nation in the history of the world. Of course, the left is doing everything it can to destroy that, but there it is.

Do you have any other questions?; 12/3/15, 6:41 PM
Drago said...: Untraceable assault weapons given to the drug cartels without the governments impacted being notified.

How well did that work out for obama and the left?; 12/3/15, 6:42 PM
Smilin' Jack said...: If you heard the shots just down the hallway and there’s no place to run or hide, what would be your next step? Visualize your plan in as much detail as possible."

First do a cost/benefit analysis. Multiply your life expectancy by the probability that you will be killed by a shooter and see how it compares with the time required to do all this planning and visualization.; 12/3/15, 6:51 PM
Fritz said...: I ain't putting it on the internet.; 12/3/15, 7:02 PM
Michael K said...: "The American Dream. How well has that worked out for us?"

Drago pretty well answered you.

Democrats stimulate gun buying like shit draws flies. Frankly, the urge to arm oneself was much weaker in the 1950s when the country was pretty much on track. Then came Johnson, the New Left, riots, mass civil disobedience and now Black Lives Matter.

In 1956 I used to hang out in a back tavern in Chicago. My buddy and I would go in there almost every Friday night and play bumper pool for beers (they were a quarter). All the others in there were black and we were all gambling and drinking beer. They would line up to challenge us in bumper pool and we usually won. I never felt unsafe and we were buddies with bunch of them.
How do you think things have worked out?; 12/3/15, 7:03 PM
Tyrone Slothrop said...: Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet.

--- Maj. Gen. James Mattis, USMC; 12/3/15, 7:28 PM
khesanh0802 said...: I went looking for some gun violence stats in Chicago.This page makes the San Bernadino massacre look like child's play. The daily toll in Chicago - where guns are tightly regulated - is incredible.; 12/3/15, 7:41 PM
Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...: All this chest thumping over guns brings a disturbing image to mind - a crowded office space, a geriatric co-worker with creaky knees and poor hearing somehow mishears someone say 'attractive cooter'. He rushes to pull out his semi-automatic and begins firing away indiscriminately before falling to the ground with a coronary, inadvertently shooting out one of his knees on way down.

This image is not making me feel any safer.; 12/3/15, 8:04 PM
Anonymous said...: I've lost track: am I supposed to be sneering manfully at all those pussies who think they need guns to defend themselves, or am I supposed to be hiding under my bed in case they shoot me?; 12/3/15, 9:08 PM
Be said...: Semper Paratus (or Parata, depending on your affiliation). Am a Boston area dweller. Equate getting shot on my day to day route with an airplane crash on a similar // plane route.

What will eventually kill me here is a bicyclist, I feel and fear.; 12/3/15, 9:11 PM
JCC said...: @ Georgie -

"A gun for every man, woman and child. The American Dream. How well has that worked out for us?"

Has anyone, anywhere, ever suggested anything remotely close to such a stupid thing? Has anyone (in authority, you know, like maybe the Supreme Constitutional Scholar turned Angry Man) proposed anything which might actually - if passed - influence s single mass shooting to date? Or is every single (constitutional, speaking of) gun control proposal useless when considering the shootings which have occurred, and would rather affect only those who already choose to obey existing statutes? In other words, using a current example, not a single idea from the left would have prevented the San Bernardino honeymooners from buying or possessing guns or ammo, pipe, fireworks, or RC cars. Unless you plan of revoking the 2nd Amendment, or maybe other parts of the B of R. But those NSA programs outed by the rat Snowden and canceled by Dems, Rand Paul and others including the White House? Maybe something there would have helped play pin the handcuffs on the jihadi. Who knows now?

And while speaking of fatuous comments, a CNN analyst this evening opined that Fayood and Fatima (whatever) committed "probable workplace violence, because real terrorists don't make pipe bombs or use toy RC cars" going on to suggest the happy couple were amateurish. I'm surprised he didn't use the term "JV." Anything to avoid calling them Islamic terrorists I guess. Another analyst, a retired U S Marshal, to his credit, disagreed rather vigorously. But then, I think the weight of evidence is becoming so compelling, even the White House Defense Foundation at CNN are finding it tough to call this a spat over the seating chart at the "non-specific holiday party." (Yes, that's actually how they booked it, despite all the incorrect media reports calling it a Christmas party).; 12/3/15, 9:21 PM
Beach Brutus said...: A thought experiment like this one led me to buy my first gun. I grew up shooting with friends but had never purchased my own. After the birth of our first child, we moved into a new house. It has a split floor plan. Living in a tourist town burglaries are not uncommon. Thinking about it I realized that if someone run broke into our home they would probably put themself between me and my child. What would I do? The next week I bought a Glock Model 19 with night sights.; 12/3/15, 9:29 PM
iowan2 said...: jupiter asked about pepper spray. I don't know. If I were in that situation, Danger of being unemployed for being able to defend myself and co-workers, I would most likely have wasp and hornet spray close by. Shots a stream of a very irritating toxic and somewhat caustic material 20 feet. Its easy to use, aimable to the eyes of the assailant, easy to find, and not banned.

Since Paris, I carry. All the time, especially gun free zones.Downtown Des Moines last nite. Supper, Theater, nightcap. Never had a concern, I wont be a hero. I'll avoid areas, refuse to enter places, change my walking path, avoid groups of young men roaming aimlessly, in short act like a big pussy. I wont be a hero, but I'll be damned if I'll be a victim.; 12/3/15, 9:36 PM
Drago said...: ARMeltdown: "This image is not making me feel any safer."

I'm sure that all of the "images" that appear to you in your own mind are quite disturbing.

I'm told there are medications, in addition to the ones that have already been prescribed for you, that might help you.

I urge you to seek additional support.; 12/3/15, 9:53 PM
Anonymous said...: JCC, a gun for every man, woman and child isn't a suggestion. It's a reality. There are enough guns owned in the US to supply one to every man, woman and child in America. Have you seriously never seen the stats?; 12/3/15, 10:05 PM
Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...: Paul Zrimsek said...
am I supposed to be sneering manfully at all those pussies who think they need guns to defend themselves, or am I supposed to be hiding under my bed in case they shoot me?

You have to think for yourself, man. This is not an encounter group.; 12/3/15, 10:32 PM
Lawrence Person said...: More advice along these lines from a tactical firearms expert. Originally published right after the (first) Fort Hood shooting...; 12/3/15, 11:33 PM
Lewis Wetzel said...: ARM is a joke, right? Some kind of invented persona?
Nobody can be so stupid that they think that 'sudden jihad syndrome' is like the Soviets aiming nukes at us, can they?; 12/4/15, 12:47 AM
Achilles said...: AReasonableMan said...
"All this chest thumping over guns brings a disturbing image to mind - a crowded office space, a geriatric co-worker with creaky knees and poor hearing somehow mishears someone say 'attractive cooter'. He rushes to pull out his semi-automatic and begins firing away indiscriminately before falling to the ground with a coronary, inadvertently shooting out one of his knees on way down.

This image is not making me feel any safer."

This your most cogent argument for gun control yet. It must be humiliating.; 12/4/15, 12:56 AM
rcommal said...: Althouse:

How about you go first in responding to that hypothetical scenario that you just posed? You do that, and I will share my visualization/answer your question. Until then: No. Better that you assume than that I disclose--a stance that I'm 100% sure you can appreciate, if/when you want to.

; ); 12/4/15, 1:51 AM
Rusty said...: Blogger Georgie said...
A gun for every man, woman and child. The American Dream. How well has that worked out for us?
Not too bad. We're 111 out of 218 countries for violent murders.You're more likely to be gunned down in staunchly democrat Detroit than in Republican Plano Texas. And I dare say that there are more guns in Plano Texas than there are people in Detroit.; 12/4/15, 5:57 AM
Rusty said...: Blogger Paul Zrimsek said...
I've lost track: am I supposed to be sneering manfully at all those pussies who think they need guns to defend themselves, or am I supposed to be hiding under my bed in case they shoot me?

Don't worry about it. Just go to the range and run a few rounds through something.; 12/4/15, 6:00 AM
Rusty said...: AReasonableMan said...
The guns everywhere hysterics have made us feel as safe as we did in the middle of the cold war. Heckuva job, guys.

Speak for yourself. I'm pretty comfortable with it.; 12/4/15, 6:02 AM
JCC said...: @ Georgie -

The numbers do not suggest an even distribution. For instance, the raw numbers suggest every American will be involved in a traffic accident every couple of years if there were even distribution (accidents per capita). But, of course, some are never in an accident, while others regularly run into things. As far as firearms go, surveys vary but it seems as though about ⅓ of Americans live in households with a firearm in the house. Presumably that excludes those who criminally posses guns and don't respond to such surveys.

Drunk drivers kill more people than guns, and kill by whole number factors more than legally possessed guns, San Bernardino notwithstanding. Illegally possessed guns are implicated in most gun deaths. Maybe we could begin by enforcing the laws on the books now (instead of, for instance, the current "criminal law reforms" which are removing min man laws like most felon in possession of firearms statutes, or California, where I think they recently changed theft of a firearm to a misdemeanor from a felony).; 12/4/15, 7:00 AM
Todd said...: AReasonableMan said...
tim in vermont said...
Awww. Are you scared?

Not in the slightest. You can tell because I don't need the comfort blanket of a loaded gun to feel safe walking down the street (unlike some people I could mention).

The ever increasing flux of powerful weapons into our society is neither making us safer nor making us feel safer. It is the definition of idiotic.

12/3/15, 3:26 PM

LOL. As has been stated repeatedly to you and others, the crime rate among CCW holders owners is much lower than the general public. The "accidentally shoots someone" rate among CCW holders is significantly lower than that of the police. These are not MSM facts nor politician fact but actual real facts. The "fact" that more CCW holders makes you feel less safe says much more about your mental state than about everyone else's.

AReasonableMan said... [hush][hide comment]
All this chest thumping over guns brings a disturbing image to mind - a crowded office space, a geriatric co-worker with creaky knees and poor hearing somehow mishears someone say 'attractive cooter'. He rushes to pull out his semi-automatic and begins firing away indiscriminately before falling to the ground with a coronary, inadvertently shooting out one of his knees on way down.

This image is not making me feel any safer.

12/3/15, 8:04 PM

Even more LOL. So how many times has your hypothetical ever occurred? Most of the things that CCWs carry for actually have occurred. So you worry about events that have never(?) happened while we worry about the re-occurrence of events that do happen and you label us as paranoid? Right...; 12/4/15, 8:35 AM
Jessica said...: Thank you for posting this. I read the whole thing and I appreciate having this knowledge in my back pocket.; 12/4/15, 1:01 PM
JAORE said...: Do I have fire insurance on my home? Sure I do, even though the likelihood of my home burning to the ground is slight.

Did we have a fire excavation plan for my family when our children were young? Sure we did. Still a very slim chance of needing it.

Have a fire extinguisher too. And I know how to use it Ditto.

Am I "afraid" of fire? No, not in the you-must-be-a-bed-wetter way ARM seems to imagine. But I am prepared for the eventuality.; 12/4/15, 1:39 PM
mikee said...: I am probably alive today because a wise older man asked me to visualize what I'd do in a few unlikely but potentially deadly situations while driving a car, and offered correct advice about handling them.

I remembered that advice in the split second I had to react when a front tire exploded on my car, going 85 on a freeway. Had I not, I'd likely have wrecked at speed.

We react as we are trained. I reacted as I'd been trained over a decade before.

That same wise old man, at age 65, while a tourist in France, beat the stuffing out of mugger using his military training from 40 years earlier. When he told me about it, he said that afterwards the scariest part of the event was realizing, with the mugger on the ground bleeding, that his reactions to the mugger had been automatic, not consciously chosen. We react as we are trained.; 12/4/15, 7:09 PM
JamesB.BKK said...: Kirk Parker: I went to find out feasibility of the out of battery move, and found this within a comment at SayUncle: "If you have to put hands on the other guy’s gun to keep from getting shot, you should be trying to chew his face off like Hannibal Lecter, screaming like a rabid howler monkey, until he lets completely go of the gun." HT Rick Randall; 12/6/15, 11:05 PM