"A lot of people have argued that Trump’s rhetoric has aided ISIL, from terror experts to Whoopi Goldberg. But as far as we and other outlets can tell, there’s no evidence that radical jihadists are actually showing videos of Trump as a recruitment tool. We’ve asked the Clinton campaign for any evidence they have of this and will report back what they say."
From
Politico's analysis of the factual assertions in last night's debate.
Maybe Clinton meant to say: "
They There are going to
be people showing videos of Donald Trump insulting Islam and Muslims in order to recruit more radical jihadists." Just speculating that it could be done because it would work. (
Would it work? I don't know!)
Maybe she knows the jihadist propaganda process and has a strong basis for inferring that it is being done because it's the sort of thing they do and the kind of material Trump is providing is always picked up and repurposed in recruitment video.
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81 comments:
Explain please, the difference between a "terrorism expert" and Whoopi Goldberg.
I can't keep track of when we are supposed to watch our rhetoric and tailor our behavior so that we do not upset people* vs when we are supposed to speak strongly against people, and force them to act against their own wishes**.
*watch what we say against muslims and abortion providers
**be forceful against "christianists", gun owners, and wedding cake bakers
"Maybe she knows how the jihadist propaganda works and has a strong basis for inferring" Apparently, there are still people in this world who believe Hillary! knows anything about anything, has or needs a "strong basis" for inferring anything about anything, and in particular has any expert knowledge about "jihadis" that she would bring to bear. And apparently there are still people whom she hasn't "lost" who would attribute to her any effort to reason on the basis of a "basis" or "knowledge" rather than whatever casual smear might work at the moment. Umm, since we're not dealing with an ideal speech situation here, even Habermas might hesitate just a tad in taking any Hillary!' utterances as claims with truth value.
The mess she created in Libya is a far bigger recruiting tool than anything Trump could ever say.
Yeah, that's a well-know effect. After all, why did all those young men join the Hitlerjugend panzer division? It was all those FDR fireside chats about how bad the Nazis were. If Churchill and Roosevelt had just shut up about fascism Hitler could never have invaded Poland; all those young men would have been swilling beer and dancing the Schuhplattler instead.
Explain please, the difference between a "terrorism expert" and Whoopi Goldberg.
WG does have some expertise in the field. She does look in the mirror from time to time.
This has a lot of the same feel to it as her claim that Benghazi happened because of a YouTube video. She doesn't learn from her mistakes.
I have no doubt that the Middle East hillbillies are being provoked by our hillbillies. Obviously it is working in both directions. Maybe we could take their hillbillies, combine them with our hillbillies, and create a new nation? What would we call it though?
"I want to emigrate to America so my children can have a better life....wait, what?
Donald Trump doesn't want me to come because he thinks I might blow myself up? Oh.
Well in that case I think join ISIS and blow myself up." - Typical Muslim reaction to US campaign rhetoric.
Says a lot about some Muslims if they join ISIS just because of Donald Trump. Oh no... a temporary ban on Muslims immigrating to the U.S., hey goodhearted boys and girls lets join ISIS and start killing everybody.
LOL... people like CAIR think insulting people allows violence.
Two bits of common wisdom (on the Left) that are simply assertions:
1) The purpose of terrorism is to provoke an overreaction by the victim (NB only applies to Islamic terrorism).
2) Any attempt to take the initiative against terrorism only creates more terrorists (again, only applies to Islamic terrorism).
If I was a Muslim, I would consider this kind of speculation insulting.
The idea that Muslims could be easily duped by ISIS, because they can't figure out for themselves the difference between what is jihadist propaganda and what is not.
Ironically, it's western paternalism of high order.
The Prof is ALWAYS willing to give the Hildebeast the benefit of the doubt, isn't she?
(To be fair, she gives a lot of people the benefit of the doubt, but none so much as Zero and Hillary)
Don't you remember a Youtube video caused Benghazi riots?
Hillary lied, Hillary lies, Hillary will always lie.
Just close the damned border and let them recruit and blow themselves up.
Hillary lying about a video? That would never happen.
Videos of American politicians advocating for the rights of gays and women could be used to recruit for ISIS. Should those people shut up?
I'm just glad in WW II we made the distinction between Germans and NAZIs. it would have been really unfair of us to tar all Germans with the actions of the NAZIs.
I'm also glad we didn't do anything drastic like round up Americans and foreign nationals and intern them because we feared they might commit terrorism.
Nope no profiling at all......
The Battered Wife Syndrome writ large. Complaining about his beatings/infidelities/drinking only makes him do more of it. Its always our fault.
Play # 2 of 4 in the Clinton/Democrat playbook. I don't know if Hillary and the Dems actually believe it or if they believe others can be convinced of it. That the reason we're being attacked is because of provocation or our presence in their lands. That if we just withdraw and demonstrate deference they will suddenly leave us alone in peace.
I wonder what she believes our attackers think of her? I bet it isn't that 20 something jihadis view a 70 year old western woman as deserving of a batula mask in public and private and not their respect as a world leader. That a tired old woman that's demonstrated weakness against them and a fundamental misunderstanding of their motivations would be just the kind of western leader they could roll over.
I bet not.
Blaming things on a video is Hillary's go-to play.
Well. If anybody knows how tgo pump out propaganda it would be Hillary.
Hasn't Hillary learned about lying about a video?
The last time she lied, someone else went to jail, the media covered and her side won.
She's learned.
Or maybe she was just making shit up because she thought she could get away with it. Because the Democrats usually do.
Was that sniper fire on stage at the debate last night ?
Maybe Hillary can't tell any more when she tells a lie, because she lies so often.
Voting for Hillary Clinton is like voting for Nixon after his Watergate scandal became public.
I have a $100 bet that Hillary will win, which I will collect because after two Obama terms I have come to recognize the high level of the support offered to leftist leaders by their supporters, and will not underestimate the left's imbecility again.
Bob Boyd nails it at 10:13. The Left won't, indeed can't, talk about what actually motivates the Muzzie shitbags. Out of a veritable galaxy of Lefty hypocrisy, this particular bit of craven drooling leaps out. If gays and feminists truly believed what they say they believe, there would be protests outside of mosques 24/7.
Maybe she was lying on purpose once again. Or, maybe she has no idea what she is talking about. She hasn't said anything original outside of Democrat Party talking points in twenty years.
If ISIS is not Islam, then how does insulting Islam then motivate ISIS? Can't have it both ways.
The Democrats insult Christians constantly, and there isn't any mass movement to join the Westboro Baptist Church.
Damn, she has a fixation on videos leading to terror...
I thought all those millions of refugees in Syria and Libya had something to do with ISIS recruitment. Who knew they followed the US election that closely........I'm sure nothing strikes more fear into the hearts of ISIS than a lenient Muslim immigration policy and a tough stance on carbon emissions. With Obama and now Hillary, ISIS will perish on the vne.
Amanda Carpenter 3 hours ago...
So yes, Hillary blamed terrorism on a made up video. Again.
It's deja vu all over again.
What Hillary Clinton said is just a lie - and she apparently mangled it, or was that on purpose??
Donald Trump's words have to be distorted, or added to, to be useful ISIS propaganda, but saying that would take it out of the power of Donald Trump to prevent, because then it is not what he is saying. And that would only be to cite him as further proof that there is a crusade against Islam, which they have no trouble saying without any help from Donald Trump.
What should be said is that Donald Trump is echoing Russian propaganda, and we can see proof of this all the time. (Putin tried to return the favor. He's not going to criticize Trump = Putin wants people to believe what Trump is saying. )
But this would be much too close to the truth for Hillary Clinton ever to say. She's not so against Putin herself.
It's well past the time our leaders worry about what ISIS will think and start worrying about what Americans think
Coming late to the party here, but could somebody point me to a source that summarizes Trump's insults to Islam and/or Muslims?
It's hard to see how any ISIS recruiting material could be more effective than a female US president who voted for the Iraq War.
Blogger Quaestor said...
" Yeah, that's a well-know effect. After all, why did all those young men join the Hitlerjugend panzer division? It was all those FDR fireside chats about how bad the Nazis were. If Churchill and Roosevelt had just shut up about fascism"
Actually, it was worse than that. In the early years of FDR, his administration was explicitly modeled on fascism. After all, those guys knew how to get things done. Look at the history of how the NRA (National Recovery Administration) came into being and how it worked. At least until the Supremes struck it down as unconstitutional. Unamerican too, I might add.
Or Churchill who said this on meeting Mussolini:
“If I had been Italian, I am sure I would have been with you from the beginning.”
Doesn't seem to have helped.
The British playwright George Bernard Shaw declared that “socialists should be delighted to find at last a socialist [Mussolini] who speaks and thinks as responsible rulers do.”
John Henry
It strikes me that the Democrat operatives do more to irrevocably tie jihadism to Islam than do those of us who only decry jihadism.
Why are they asking the Clinton campaign? There has to be a way to independently verify the claim. If true. Otherwise it's just an unsubstantiated allegation made in a political campaign.
No one with two or more digits in their IQ believes her. She's just appealing to Democrat base.
All statements are usable for propaganda spin. The only way to avoid this is to say nothing. IIRC the pro-Islamic statements by US government figures have in the past been used as radical Islamic propaganda to their own people, message being "see, we are winning, they are afraid to say anything against us".
The idea that anti-Muslim rhetoric is harmful, in a western land, is held mainly by western non-Muslims.
It CAN indeed hurt inter-faith relations in some places, especially where Muslim and non-Muslim populations are adjacent in a religiously contested area and there is a history of communal violence. Parts of Nigeria, Southern Thailand, some Philippine provinces, and anywhere there is a non-Muslim minority in a predominantly Muslim land, it is dangerous to provoke them. But this is because of the local balance of power.
But for the US it is not so clear. There is value in intimidation if the anti-Muslim side has a preponderance of power. The community is encouraged to self-censor and discourage radicals if it seems likely that communal punishment is a possibility. That is the way of it in most places.
Or maybe she's a pathological liar.
That rings true, no?
On top of Tom's "fixation" comment, I'd add that she likely is haunted by blackmail video footage that exist(ed) of her and/or Bill. Video whose leak she has "forgot my final exam and my degree is revoked" recurring nightmares about. What an interesting personal theme.
Once written, twice... said...
I have no doubt that the Middle East hillbillies are being provoked by our hillbillies. Obviously it is working in both directions. Maybe we could take their hillbillies, combine them with our hillbillies, and create a new nation? What would we call it though?
12/20/15, 10:01 AM "
Better still lets ship out our progs to the Middle East so the hillbillies there can satiate their blood lust and we rid ourselves of trash. A win-win solution. Thanks for the inspiration.
A lot of Muslims think that President Obama is an apostate and that he is weak, which is an excellent recruiting tool.
Cf. http://www.csmonitor.com/Commentary/Opinion/2008/0519/p09s02-coop.html
Hillary's idiotic statement followed by the Left-amen crowd are almost guaranteeing a Trump victory. She plays in to his hand and her very comment about inflaming Muslims into joining ISIS makes Trump's point of keeping them out to begin with.
Notice how it is always free speech, at root, that she has a problem with.
Repeal the 19th Amendment. That would end her chances.
This whole business about the existence of Gitmo and Trump's comments helping to recruit terrorist for ISIS is complete and total BS.
It is a cover story for the Left's total FAILURE to effectively fight and win against radical Islam.
Even if there was no Gitmo or Trump, the Islamists would still want to kill us. That's what they do.
Bob Boyd @10:13: "Videos of American politicians advocating for the rights of gays and women could be used to recruit for ISIS. Should those people shut up?"
Similar to what I was thinking as I saw this http://www.gaypatriot.net/2015/12/19/politically-incorrect-question/ (A gay man about to be tossed off a tall building) I wonder if a Muslim or two ever pulled that evil shit here, if the left would finally see the wisdom in calling for a moratorium on immigration. Or if fatty-boy Moore would stand in front of CAIR's offices with a sign "We're all gay now."
And when I saw this hilarious comment at GP "you reporting al[l] these killings of gays is islamophobic" unlike GP, isn't what the MSM doing by non-coverage at root Islamophobic? What are they afraid of? Isn't the lack of reporting tacit approval of such evil behavior?
How often do you see the gruesome realities of the evil abuse and/or murder of gays, women, Christians, smokers (chop their hands off, but the left might be okay with that for tobacco (but not pot!) smokers and gun owners), and children? Not too often in the MSM.
Maybe Trump should release a video of the reality of everyday life there and ask if Clinton is really up for the job of defeating ISIS, or is she really just an Islamophobe, and her being "nice" and "tolerant" is only out of fear? Contrast that niceness with the hate in her voice when she screeches "the republicans" and you can see whom she thinks the real enemy is.
(Chemo brain in full force today, sorry for the jumbled comment, but you get my drift!)
The Muslims regard any criticism of Islam as blasphemy, and believe it should be punished by law. So do the Democrats.
This is such a stupid talking point. What wont recruit more terrorists?
All three people on stage said they would destroy ISIS. Why wouldn't that be a recruitment tool for ISIS? they are saying they are going to destroy them!!! Also Gitmo. Obama still hasnt' closed it. Incitement! ALso, drone strikes. And intervention in ME countries. Why are ISIS not reacting to those policies - ones pushed by Hillary Clinto.
On Huffington Post they linked to an ISIS member who likened gays to child molesters and said:
"If you come to this place, here, we have houses, we have security, we have a beautiful rivers ... we have a lot of brothers and sisters already here that came and are giving all of their good ideas to implement good, strong Islamic community," says the man, whose identity has not been confirmed.
"You see that Allah will protect you and bless you and bless your family," he continues. "Now, if you have family in these kafir (infidel) countries, what is gonna happen most probably [is] you don't have control of your children. Maybe in some of the countries it's a must for you to put your children in the kafir schools. And whose gonna teach your children? It's gonna be maybe a gay, maybe a drug dealer, maybe a pedophile. You know? So it's very important for you to protect your children from these animals, from these dirty people. Allah says that they are the worst of creatures. You prefer to live among the worst of creatures than live among the mujahideen ... make your decision."
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/09/17/isis-gays-pedophiles_n_5835296.html
So, wouldn't the liberal call for gay marriage be a recruitment tool for this guy? He is saying such people are the worst of creatures. And he is actually threatening Muslims they can choose to live with the kafirs, or among the mujahedeen. Make your decision.
Would any liberal or democrat or media outlet dare suggest that calls for gay marriage are recruitment tools for ISIS? Because they are.
But you don't care, and nor should you, since what an ISIS member finds offensive is completely immaterial to whether we should have it as a policy
And by the way, considering what the ISIS member thinks of the kafir country that has pedophiles teaching the kids, and considering his threat to muslims if they choose the kafir country over the mujahedeen, wouldn't an open immigration policy where we let in muslims not also be a recruitment tool for ISIS?
the more muslims let in, the more are being taught by pedophiles and not by the mujahedeen.
If a video of a jerk being jerky is enough to turn peaceful Muslims into violent Jihadis, then Muslims are clearly unnaturally susceptible to such triggering stimulus and should not be allowed within 1000 miles of civilization.
The Caliphate is not looking for equality, or even congruence, but rather for unconditional submission. Thanks to Obama et al, they would have a chance, if not for the Russian lead coalition, including many former American allies.
Meanwhile, the State-establishment of a quasi-religious pro-choice doctrine; along with other anti-native policies, including excessive, illegal, and refugee immigration to compensate for selective-child policy and other liberal doctrines; the greatest threat to American viability is through internal disenfranchisement.
So, Hillary is establishing her foreign policy as appeasement and compliance with the wishes of Muslims as she fears the retribution that would occur if our country should offend them or have policies that they would not agree with. Personally, I would go with Trump and not subjugate ourselves to a foreign tyrant. Don't our politicians realize that by formulating policy based on the fear of physical harm that we have lost the war and lost our identity?
Can we make up our minds please?
Is it -
(1) Saying something that might be deemed offensive to Muslims is wrongful bigotry because Muslims are peaceful?
or
(2) Saying something that might be deemed offensive to Muslims is wrong because it might make them terrorists?
They are killing innocent people because someone says that they are a risk of killing innocent people? Huh??
Right. All those people who said insulting things about Hitler are also to blame and got what was coming to them when he killed them, I suppose.
I am so tired of liberals claiming every position they disagree with somehow is a recruiting tool for ISIS and the media taking such claim seriously. Liberals know virtually nothing about ISIS recruiting. The idea that bloviating by Trump is a big factor in ISIS recruiting is absurd. As a matter of common sense, the biggest recruiting tool is ISIS having success on the battlefield, in their terrorist activities, and in their political attacks on the West. If you want to know what our politicians do to help ISIS recruiting, look at Obama acting weakly.
There is a legitimate argument about whether we should move much more forcefully against ISIS, but if want to hurt their "recruiting," demonstrate that recruiting is a path to death and ISIS is getting destroyed on the battlefield.
Trump said something mean about muslims! He assumed we are all terrorists! So, i'm going to join a terrorist organization then come back and kill the infidels. That will show him I'm not a terrorist! wait a second...
if you could be incited to join a terrorist organization simply because Trump made a blanket statement about muslims, you were about to join a terrorist organization anyway. Because no non terrorist would be incited into violence simply because Donald Trump said something about them.
If rhetoric from Donald Trump can turn normal Muslims into terrorists, then Trump is right and we need to stop all immigration of Muslims into the United States.
The problem with offense culture and judging things by whether they offend others is that a lot of people go on jihads when you insult them. I meant that more matphorically, but in the case of jihadis its literal.
They may be the most insensitive people on the planet. A picture of mohammad gets them to chop peoples heads off. A beauty pageant contestant could say something mild about islam and next thing you know 15 people are dead and the neighborhood is ablaze.
"Fact checking" is a new journalistic conceit that I really resent. But having said that much, it seems like such a tame exercise in the case of most politicians. They say something that has a political angle, and a bit of calculation, and then we all agree on the framework for a discussion, pro- or con-.
This is all useless in the case of Trump. Where the lies and the misstatements and the fabulisms and the outrages come so fast and so thick that it cannot even be tallied, much less detailed and accounted. He is in a "class" by himself.
This has to be the most bizarre period in American election history. I compare Trump to Andrew Jackson in that the elites hate the Trump voters and are horrified they could elect such a crude type. The 1824 election was thrown by Quincy Adams supporters to avoid having such a disgrace in the White House. The comparisons write themselves.
Hillary announces she's a dhimmi!
this is how we are serving as the management training program
http://nypost.com/2015/12/19/obama-is-releasing-terrorists-to-wage-jihad-against-america/
Maybe Obama can arrest Donald Trump for insulting Islam. That would liven up the holiday season something wonderful!
FG
Who really gives a crap what they use for propaganda. Do we HONESTLY believe this will end with the jihadists saying..."oh, okay, we are all good now". So ridiculous and typical of a liberal.
Maybe, Ann, she just makes stuff up as she goes along.
Blogger sdharms said...
Maybe, Ann, she just makes stuff up as she goes along.
--
Or it's the best her handlers and consultants could come up with.
By the way, anyone think these fanatics wouldn't be "triggered" by a woman president so brazenly unveiled and married to a serial adulterer?
OK. Let's stop a minute and take a deep breath.
Let it out slowly.
We're calm and peaceful now?
So, what do we know? We know that Hillary! wants Tromp to be the Republican candidate because she thinks he'd be the easiest one for her to beat in the general election.
We know Putin wants Tromp to be the next American President because he thinks he'd be the easiest one to beat in the world struggle for power (he knows that Obama won't be around forever).
Shouldn't sensible folks make a mental list of the potential presidents who would be effective opponents of Putin (and the Islamic State and its affiliates, etc.)? And then, from that list, pick who has the best chance of winning the general election?
I really don't think Tromp ends up being that person. If you disagree, if you really think, notwithstanding the polling data, that Tromp could win the election, if you really think a guy who doesn't know what the nuclear triad is, and thinks the TPP helps China steal US markets when in fact in excludes China, and so on and so on, would be the best president to protect the US and enhance its position in the world, well then God bless you, but you better pray that you aren't wrong.
Islam is a religion of peace, and if Donald Trump says otherwise than Muslims will be enraged and want to kill people who have nothing to do with Donald Trump.
The people who make this argument are bullshitting. They say self-evidently absurd things they don't even attempt to justify. And then they ask us to grant them power over our security and freedom.
Then again, maybe Hillary is just full of shit like most of the rest of the time she's issuing declarations.
John Henry wrote: Actually, it was worse than that.
You do realize I was being facetious, yes?
Personally Ann I think we ought to have boots on the ground in Syria and any ISIS caught crucified on the road from Baghdad to Damascus while wrapped in pig skins.
They can use that as a recruiting tool for all I care. So Trumps utterance are rather mild.
What a bunch of crap. ISIS could also use photos of Hillary walking around not wearing a burqua in open defiance of traditional law and recruit using that--does that mean she should start wearing a burqua to deprive them of a recruiting tactic?
There's plenty wrong with what Trump says and you can criticize it on its own merits. What ISIS thinks of it matters not at all.
Hillary's a painfully underqualified candidate and the fact that she is poised to be our next president is a travesty. What the hell happened to this country?
Blogger Quaestor said...Yeah, that's a well-know effect. After all, why did all those young men join the Hitlerjugend panzer division? It was all those FDR fireside chats about how bad the Nazis were. If Churchill and Roosevelt had just shut up about fascism Hitler could never have invaded Poland; all those young men would have been swilling beer and dancing the Schuhplattler instead.
Exactly. "It takes a rarified form of stupidity to think that [customized as needed]" used to be one of my favourite phrases for these situations, but, unfortunately, that form of stupidity is not so rarified as one might hope.
So, I take it back. They just found a video of ISIS. And who is featured in it? Clinton. Obama. Kerry, Biden.
So, yes, Hillary, ISIS is using your husband to recruit terrorists. It must be something he said or did.
You better change your policies, they are inciting terrorists.
I think the more interesting development at the debate, and one that might have some legs, is that Hillary was late returning from break, and left her opponents and millions of viewers waiting, because she refused to into a multi-stall women's restroom while another person was in the restroom.
Unless I'm missing something about women and restrooms, what kind of arrogant, entitled queen does she think she is?
More made-up "facts" from the Dumbocrats.
It turns out that someone got a copy of an ISIS recruiting video, and it does not feature Donald Trump. It shows Barack Obama and William Jefferson Clinton.
Hillary lies every time she opens her mouth, and I'm including when she sits in a dentist's chair.
Hillary Clinton believes a video of someone criticizing Muslims - assuming arguendo that's an accurate description - is sufficient to cause peaceful Muslims to become violent jihadists / terrorists?
And she thinks Trump is insulting Muslims?
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