December 12, 2015

"ACLU Board Member Resigns After Urging People To Kill Supporters Of Trump."

"Loring Wirbel’s Facebook post was captured by The Daily Caller – a right-leaning online newspaper."
The post states, “The thing is, we have to really reach out to those who might consider voting for Trump and say, ‘This is Goebbels. This is the final solution. If you are voting for him I will have to shoot you before Election Day.’ They’re not going to listen to reason, so when justice is gone, there’s always force…”...

The ACLU of Colorado released a statement saying it “does not condone the recent personal Facebook post of regional volunteer Loring Wirbel..."....
Of course, the media is full of statements comparing Trump to Hitler and it's no wonder people hear that as a call to stop him and his followers now while there is still a chance. Wirbel just got publicly humiliated, and what he did is now displayed as what it means to go too far, putting it out, in writing, on the internet. But I assume there is much more talk like that, in more trusted circles, and I know there are, every day, many public statements that have the potential to affect intemperate or disordered minds as a call to violence.

ADDED: Wirbel might have thought he was well situated in humor. He recommends speech. You should just say to other people "If you are voting for him I will have to shoot you" before you can vote (not actually shoot them). He uses speech to talk about speech and the way that speech no longer works on some people. They are beyond reason, the idea is, because no reasonable person, by his definition, could decide to vote for Trump.

He might very well thought that was funny and that reasonable people would understand how it is funny. Now, I'm concerned about how speech like that is heard and acted upon by those with intemperate or disordered minds. That is, like Wirbel, I worry about the unreasonable people. He's worried that unreasonable people will vote for Trump, and I'm worried that unreasonable people will — because of all the jacked up rhetoric — commit acts of violence.

Now, I have to give this post my "civility bullshit" tag, because I can see that I'm doing what I have long called civility bullshit. Since I'm saying the Trump-is-Hitler speakers need to tone it down lest they inspire real violence, I need to flag my own hypocrisy.

100 comments:

Michael K said...

I assume Trump knows that there are left-influenced crazies out there and has good security staff. He must have learned from the experience of Huey Long. There were people who considered Long a rival for Roosevelt. He is largely forgotten now but, in an era before TV and "social media" he was almost as big a figure as Trump.

MadisonMan said...

Social Media: Where idiots go to spout nonsense.

Always assume you are being monitored by someone trying to embarrass you -- and post accordingly.

Rusty said...

The left is a violent bunch. Perhaps we need some new gun laws just for them.

rehajm said...

Consider adding love and kindness to your daily life, Loring Wirbel.

Tank said...

This is Goebbels.

In other words, making a rational decision regarding who to let in the USA from other countries (whether you agree with it or not) is exactly the same as murdering six million Jews + dozens of millions of others. Exactly.

Trump is the "final solution."

Whatever else Trump does, he certainly makes plenty of the right enemies.

PS Incidentally, lots of Rep and Dem politicians are suddenly proposing ideas with the same bottom line as Trump, but trying to be more "delicate" as to their language.

CarlF said...

The professor leaves out the "liberal" progression of the story. Mr. Siebel posted the comments. When he got pushback he deleted the post and denied posting them. When screen shots were produced, he said they were just a misinterpreted joke.

Laslo Spatula said...


"Wirbel just got publicly humiliated, and what he did is now displayed as what it means to go too far, putting it out, in writing, on the internet."

I'm not sure about the "humilated" part. I'm sure Wirbel is surrounded by plenty of people who are giving him a pat on the back right now, if not outright applauding for 'courage'. See his 'safe place':

"Ironically, one of his most recent Facebook posts was about an app that allows you to identify and “unfriend” friends who support Donald Trump, creating a “safe space.”

I believe if someone does try to assassinate Trump the Media will wrap the story in as many variations of "He had it coming" as they can (im)plausibly deny.

Finally:

I'm not sure the Left wants to be the ones to say 'break out the guns', though: I suspect the Right is more heavily armed.

Bring back the Guillotine.

I am Laslo.

Oso Negro said...

I have no doubt that Donald Trump can go from zero to asshat in 6 seconds. But the monsters of the 20th century started as socialists. Every damn one of them. Hillary is the one to watch for totalitarianism. How many film makers has Trump denounced and imprisoned?

rhhardin said...

Think of it as ecstasy rather than derangement. They're leftists.

campy said...

Clearly a false-flag hate incident. I'm sure the tea party planted this guy (assuming he actually exists) in the ACLU just for this purpose.

CWJ said...

Trump is out to kill you, so kill his supporters.

I'm tempted to say this is how too much of the civil liberty and tolerance crowd thinks. No wonder they jump to the conclusion that video showing reprehensible behaviour is a direct and intentional incitement to violence against Planned Parenthood. Both incidents Colorado no less.

DavidD said...

Wow. Trump is supposed to be the Fascist, and yet it's the anti-Trump crowd who goes all Brownshirt on people.

exhelodrvr1 said...

Obama started this with his comments in his first pres campaign

Rob McLean said...

If this keeps up, so help me, I may have to actually consider voting for Trump.

God help me.

Bob Boyd said...

With a name like Loring Wirbel, I'm sure this guy has had a hard time.
I bet he's thought about legally changing his name every single day of his life since he was ten.
This ugly business may finally force the issue.

Just looking for the silver lining.

Rob McLean said...

Wirbel did not respond to a request for comment. He is from Colorado Springs and police there say his post is covered by free speech and they do not intend to investigate.

If this guy had said this about Hillary, he'd be in jail right now.

Archie Waugh said...

This is why I have always had this rule about my Facebook page: never post something you would be uncomfortable seeing on the front page of the New York Times tomorrow.

Fernandinande said...

This is Goebbels. This is the final solution. If you are voting for him I will have to shoot you before Election Day.

"Psychological projection" strikes again.

Michael McClain said...

Another voice of moderation from the LibCong. They poisoned the well of civility years ago and will reap what they have sown.

The Drill SGT said...

I guess the MSM felt that they could clue their readership to ignore subject by pointing out that this was caused by the VRWC:

Loring Wirbel’s Facebook post was captured by The Daily Caller – a right-leaning online newspaper.

ganderson said...

Michael K- You are right about Long. I've always wondeed if he could have given Roosevelt a serious challenge in 1936. Long was a fascist- ran LA like a police state, and there were many in the US, both left and right, who were fascists at heart. A good plot for 'Sliders'.

campy said...

"If this guy had said this about Hillary, he'd be in jail right now."

Well sure. Everyone knows lefties are all talk and no action, so their threats are presumed empty. But righties ... they really do know how to shoot.

Guildofcannonballs said...

"For his part, Mr. Trump sent the nation into an uproar this week with his call to outright ban Muslims from entering the country. Is this legally or morally sound? Who cares! Mr. Trump specializes in disdain for the law, the Constitution, and any code of civilized conduct." - Kim Strassel WaPo "No Political Guardrails"


The questions pertinent are too numerous for me to mention, much less explain. So here are the points I deem more necessary to understand than the others, you will have to piece together any logic available on your own.

Is Strassel calling Trump Hitler (or worse) by her statement? Does the definition of civilization preclude Hitler from being compared to a person that was civilized, like a person without language beyond rudimentary grunts and physical motions who didn't attempt the murder of millions of humans?

The problem is Strassel having to lie to make her point, being namely "Trump's a damned liar fool!" He may be a liar and the end of America as it was ever known by anyone, yet he hasn't murdered anyone, so I can cite at least one code of civilization (also and not by coincidence one of God's 10 Commandments) Trump has no disdain for. I imagine were the (logical) questions I am asking now asked before the lies were published folks could have found their own answers were that inclination realized as needed.

Not ultimately per se, but far away from being implemented here in America and on Earth for that matter, the solution involves removing hyperbole even though your job is selling the proper form of hyperbole, one that lies about others in order to boost its own faux gravitas, like Universities charging tens of thousands of dollars per pupil of extra expenses beyond what is needed for students to learn properly, partially defined for my purposes today as having basic knowledge comparable to similar institutions of a given major and being able to separate fact from fiction at a level not so precise as to be uncommon.

PB said...

As "progressivism" falls apart it isn't pretty, but highly entertaining.

hiawatha biscayne said...

"like Wirbel, I worry about the unreasonable people." i too worry about the unreasonable people - the half of the country that voted for obama twice.

Tank said...

Rob McLean said...

If this keeps up, so help me, I may have to actually consider voting for Trump.

God help me.


I know. I have to remind myself that the enemy of my enemy is not necessarily my friend (or something like that, analogy wise).

Fen said...

So, every time we compared the Authoritarian Left to Nazis and they whine about Godwin's Law, they didn't really believe what they were lecturing us about?

Asking for a friend.

M Jordan said...

For better or for worse, Trump has sprayed the wasps nest. The uneasy truce between between human and wasp is over and everything in disarray. (You may interpret human and wasp however you like).

Order will come but not before some serious running and screaming and swearing has worked itself through the process.

Mike Sylwester said...

Many Scientific Progressives argued that Sarah Palin provoked the shooting of Domocrat Congresswoman Gabby Giffords because one of Palin's webpages had a bulls-eye icon on the state of Arizona.

Now many of the same Scientific Progressives are joking about shooting Trump supporters.

Patrick said...

Related is the media's push to blacklist Trump. Which of course wouldn't be censorship according to those advocating it.
https://www.bostonglobe.com/opinion/2015/12/09/disinvite-donald-trump-from-debates/frhRURdmA8bpdz3uY8WHFJ/story.html
http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/12/donald-trump-2016-television-campbell-brown-213431#ixzz3u2OyKltm

traditionalguy said...

In Georgia, Terroristic Threats and Acts, O.C.G.A. 16-11-37, makes it a felony to threaten to commit any crime of violence. That statute specifically includes "using a burning or flaming cross with the intent to terrorize another or another's household"

The terrorists are among us.

I Have Misplaced My Pants said...

I don't see any indication that the comments were meant humorously or self-deprecatingly. That's why fanatic leftists are so obnoxious--their utter humorlessness and how seriously they take themselves. Don't you know we're COMPLETELY CORRECT and what's more we're SAVING THE WORLD HERE?!

Kevin said...

Downtwinkles for the extremely unironic yet completely backwards use of the Laurie Anderson quote.

toby said...

Rusty, The left are unarmed and sitting ducks if there is ever a revolt.

Gahrie said...

The true irony of Wirbel is that he attacked republicans for "violent imagery" after the Giffords shooting.

Roy Lofquist said...

"If I told you I'd have to kill you" is a hackneyed saying. I'm sure that's what he had in mind. Wirbel was speaking as a private citizen, not as an official of the ACLU. We have reached a nasty situation where an awkward hyperbole generates this kind of approbation.

Political correctness has gone viral even amongst those who condemn it.

clint said...

"Tank said...

I know. I have to remind myself that the enemy of my enemy is not necessarily my friend (or something like that, analogy wise).

12/12/15, 8:39 AM"

"Maxim 29: The enemy of my enemy is my enemy's enemy. No more. No less."

- From the Seventy Maxims of Maximally Effective Mercenaries,

a fictional handbook in Howard Taylor's excellent webcomic Schlock Mercenary.

Sebastian said...

"Fascism": attributed to the right, practiced by the left.

Michael K said...

"How many film makers has Trump denounced and imprisoned?"

Excellent point. Strassel has a recent column that makes a better point.

Mr. Obama doesn’t need anyone to justify his actions, because he’s realized no one can stop him. He gets criticized, but at the same time his approach has seeped into the national conscience. It has set new norms. You see this in the ever-more-outrageous proposals from the presidential field, in particular front-runners Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump.

Mrs. Clinton routinely vows to govern by diktat. On Wednesday she unveiled a raft of proposals to punish companies that flee the punitive U.S. tax system. Mrs. Clinton will ask Congress to implement her plan, but no matter if it doesn’t. “If Congress won’t act,” she promises, “then I will ask the Treasury Department, when I’m there, to use its regulatory authority.”

DavidD said...

And not even waiting until after the election results are in, either, and then killing people who voted for Trump; no, killing people preemptively to keep them from voting for Trump.

Shows a lot of confidence in Hillary's competitiveness as a candidate, don't it?

William said...

Trump is not a Nazi or a racist. He is, however, a capitalist and a nationalist. I, also, wouldn't be a bit surprised if he turned out to be a flaming heterosexual in his private life. Surely these facts are enough to disqualify him from public office without making ill advised comparisons to Gebbels.

David Begley said...

In what universe is voting for Hillary reasonable?

Virgil Hilts said...

There was an interesting screed (false attributed to William Bennett) a few weeks ago predicting that Trump would not be allowed to live to take the oath of office. I think I fall pretty low on the conspiracy scale (I think Oswald was the lone assassin), but the screed did make me pause and wonder whether in fact the elites in this country, after doing everything they could to stop him, would in fact allow Trump to serve if he actually got elected.

exhelodrvr1 said...

"In what universe is voting for Hillary reasonable?"

The same universe where it was reasonable to vote for Obama. Twice.

Paul said...

Somewhat off topic, but last night my bandmates, all black, were having a discussion that came around to the next president. Of the four one was clearly pro Trump, one against and I got the feeling the other two were open to the idea of voting for him. These same people despise GWB, Romney, and Republicans in general. None of them appear to have any love for Hillary, and they all seem to feel the country needs to change direction. The elephant in the room is the tacit admission that their hero Obama ain't cutting it, especially regarding Islam.

Those who assert as if it were fact that Trump can't win simply are too enclosed in a bubble of like minded thinkers. They really have no idea about what's going through the minds of much of the electorate. I think the number of people who silently support Trump will surprise everyone once the dam breaks and they feel comfortable joining the ranks of those openly supporting him.

jacksonjay said...

Will the fearless AG act upon this rhetoric that "edges toward violence" or does it need to be "anti-Muslim rhetoric" before she will send the goons? I know the answer, anti-Trump anything is free speech and the "...future MUST not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam."

rhhardin said...

It's a call for cavility.

Sal said...

Reagan is Hitler, Bush is Hitler, Scott Walter is Hitler, Donald Trump is Hitler. Same old, same old.

Paco Wové said...

"If I told you I'd have to kill you" is a hackneyed saying. I'm sure that's what he had in mind.

Except that's not at all what he said.

Mind you, I don't believe this guy actually intends to go around shooting Trump supporters. He's just a paid-up member of the Internet Tough Guys and Blowhards Association.

Guildofcannonballs said...

"Always assume you are being monitored by someone trying to embarrass you -- and post accordingly."

You can give the power to sensor you to your council of your own personal fear of being embarrassed, I have a record that is verifiable that I do not agree.

Like shame and guilt, embarrassment is part of God's plan for a reason. Knowing this, the efforts to create false shame etc. are known evil. Understanding how time changes what one perceives society's values may be in terms of useful labeling is more easily understandable by Relativity theory and how we change as individuals simultaneous society and with extremely little influence atom-wise.

campy said...

"Reagan is Hitler, Bush is Hitler, Scott Walter is Hitler, Donald Trump is Hitler. Same old, same old."

If the lefties ever get a new idea, I'm sure they'll try it.

CWJ said...

Althouse,

I don't for a moment think he meant any actual violence, but looking at the whole statement, I can't see an attempt at humor either. it's too unrelenting to my ear to qualify as even poorly tongue in cheek. Fantasy yes, but hateful (for once the word fits in my opinion) violent fantasy nonetheless. The ACLU connection is disturbing.

Michael said...

Hey, the left just kids about these things. You could ask George Wallace if he were still alive.

bgates said...

The left is a violent bunch. Perhaps we need some new gun laws just for them.

You know, the Democrats are having a terrible time bringing the gift of perfect safety to the public against the wishes of all of the retrograde Constitution supporters in America. As hard as the right wingers are trying to scare us with stories about how terrible every other instance of gun confiscation in the history of the world has been, lots of the country are still open to being convinced that the Democrats will get it right this time. I think they should propose a demonstration program to deliver the benefits of a gun free society to the population most in need of it: African Americans. There's no legitimate reason to oppose this idea. The Second Amendment isn't legitimate. The idea that owning firearms defends people against crime has been debunked by every legitimate social scientist who's looked into the subject. It's illegitimate to claim this would be an equal protection violation, because allowing people to live in a community with guns is the opposite of protecting them - in fact, starting gun confiscation among African Americans is actually treating them better, which is what all legitimate invocations of the 14th Amendment mandate.

Affirmative Action Gun Control. Because #BlackLivesMatter.

Paco Wové said...

"...is Hitler. Same old, same old."

Well, "X is Hitler!" is old. "X is Hitler and therefore I should kill you" is this year's innovation.

Michael K said...

"Those who assert as if it were fact that Trump can't win simply are too enclosed in a bubble of like minded thinkers."

I agree. Trump is a blowhard but has caught the sense of the country that the present ruling class, including Hillary, has no interest in our welfare.

It's going to be a wild ride if he gets elected but nothing could be worse than Hillary who really should be sharing Leona Helmsley's cell.

Ann Althouse said...

""If I told you I'd have to kill you" is a hackneyed saying."

Yes, that's something I was talking about with Meade. If you "hear" the right tone, it's a joke format, trite and cornball.

Gahrie said...

In what universe is voting for Hillary reasonable?

I've reached the point where I don't understand why the Democrats hate Nixon so much...He governed like a Democrat, and compared to Obama and Hillary, his scandals are laughable.

walter said...

Going out on a limb thiking there can be only one Loring Wirber. But since he appears to be dangerous, means to identify him here
Downloadable picture could be handy.

virgil xenophon said...

Michael K/

Re: Huey Long. THE definitive work on Huey is by LSU professor of history T. Harry Williams entitled "Huey Long." Really great and informative reading. Although many considered him a fascist, Huey was first and foremost a populist (often the same thing) as a champion of the "little people," which provided him his considerable appeal not only in Louisiana but nation-wide. He was also a surperb intellect (not to mention a tremendously effective rousing public speaker--hence his comparisons to Hitler--and argued several winning cases before the Supreme Court.

eddie willers said...

I've reached the point where I don't understand why the Democrats hate Nixon so much...He governed like a Democrat, and compared to Obama and Hillary, his scandals are laughable.

I was thinking the other day about Watergate and that the purpose of the break-in was to bug the Democratic office.

Today that would be attempted with a computer hack.
Would that even make page 8 today?

RichardJohnson said...

Attorney General Loretta Lynch recently said that she would prosecute violent speech against Muslims. But violent speech against Trump supporters is another thing entirely.

Fritz said...

Many Scientific Progressives argued that Sarah Palin provoked the shooting of Domocrat Congresswoman Gabby Giffords because one of Palin's webpages had a bulls-eye icon on the state of Arizona.

Now many of the same Scientific Progressives are joking about shooting Trump supporters.


And, ironically, Wirbel was among them:

http://iconocurmudgeonclast.blogspot.com/2011/01/violent-depravity-as-national-pastime.html

I love this quote:

"If a person believes in theories that would be self-destructive or lead inevitably to large numbers of deaths, that individual is disturbed. "

Paco Wové said...

"I can't see an attempt at humor either."

It reminds me a bit of that elaborate short film The Guardian sponsored about killing people who didn't buy their climate change gospel.

MaxedOutMama said...

This is not speech about speech. It is advocacy of a crime. A threat to kill someone if they vote a certain way is not ever going to be looked at as speech.

He is telling other people to do something that would be criminal if it were done. I don't see the humor and I do not think he meant this humorously. I think he was filled with rage when he wrote this.

The irony is that during the Brownshirt stage, the Nazis did indeed use physical violence and threats of violence to seize control of the political apparatus. Therefore, this unfortunate victim of his own bile is, in fact, the one who walked into Goebbels territory here.

Theranter said...

rhhardin said... "Think of it as ecstasy rather than derangement. They're leftists." True. If you've ever been around them as the spew their self-righteous hate, it often reaches that level. It's creepy.

And when their ever-present anger fueled by hate finds a target--look out. Recent example, couple of nights ago Princeton's Prof. Robert P. George had a sudden, potentially fatal, event and someone sent a tweet asking for prayers. Among the tweets back:

@McCormickProf @Str8Grandmother I hear Robert P. George, NOM founder, sick in hospital. Hope he dies.

‏@Theranus I hope Robert P. George dies a slow, horrible painful death and I'm sorry there's not a hell for him to go to when he dies.

Mic ‏@MykelBeyotch The only wish I have for that fascist is a quick death.
So much for George's natural law bullshit. He sees a doctor when he gets sick. Let nature take its course.

Yves Say Laurent@Goatyeah Nope... May he get everything that he deserves.


Then an update was sent reporting he had made it past the potentially fatal stage, and was doing well. The tweet is gone, but there was one saying “Too bad, I was looking forward to dancing on his grave.”

There are plenty of people I despise, but I don’t wish them any physical harm (Well, there is one person I’d be relieved—not happy—but relieved if they were gone (an in-law), but I don’t wish it upon him.)

Anonymous said...

Not at all funny and an incredibly stupid thing to say. There are those unstable folks that need only that slight push to act out violently. Words do matter, coming from the left or the right.

MaxedOutMama said...

PS: He did not think it was funny. The original Daily Caller article has more detail:
http://dailycaller.com/2015/12/10/colorado-aclu-board-member-shoot-trump-voters-before-election-day/

"They're not going to listen to reason, so when justice is gone, there is always force..." sounds even better in German, but not too well from a person in an advisory position at the ACLU.

When you're wrong, you are really wrong. This time you are wrong. He posted, he responded to the appalled comments by doubling down, and now he has smacked himself down. Too bad he did not take his own advice from a few months ago:
http://iconocurmudgeonclast.blogspot.com/2015/05/consistency-justification-and-always-on.html



n.n said...

Trigger wars. I wonder if the ACLU would commit partisan selective abortion in public.

Oh, wait. It's not legitimate to construct classes based on exceptions. A teachable moment for the social complex, including civil rights.

Birches said...

And to think he said this from the comfort of his Colorado Springs home, place of the recent PP shooting. What if Dear had heard about his violent rhetoric first?

n.n said...

Actually, the contemporary "final solution" is the elective abortion and clinical cannibalism of over one million Americans annually who are subsequently replaced and displaced through excessive, illegal, and refugee immigration. It's quite insidious. Perhaps the German socialists did not enjoy the luxury of time.

Paul said...

Onstage with Michelle Shocked ten or so years ago in Ashland OR playing for a stereotypical grey haired pony tail leftist crowd I witnessed up close and personal absolute demonic and murderous mob hatred when she went into an anti Bush rant. The only thing that would have slaked their thirst for blood and vengeance would be watching GWB drawn and quartered on stage. Their hatred was at the maximum level humans are capable of achieving from the looks of them. Fortunately they were to a man weaklings and physical cowards, as is the case with 90% of leftists.

Bruce Hayden said...

My partner calls this "kidding on the square". Don't know where she got that. But, what it means is that you are kidding. But not completely. Deep down, he wants someone to do something about Trump, and if that means someone kills him, that is the cost of politics, and, esp. of being controversial and fighting the statists who run this country. So sad. And, yes, some have said the same about Obama. Still, it ain't polite, and not very nice. But, then again, ACLU types are rarely nice. So, all you need to know is that if Trump does die, then a lot of leftists, and some Republican elites, are going to celebrate. Maybe somewhat silently. But enough that we will likely find out.

I belonged to the ACLU a couple of decades ago. Then dropped my membership when they took the authoritarian/statist side of an issue, instead of the liberal side. Since then, every time I think that they have hit bottom in their illiberality, they do something to make me realize that they haven't hit bottom yet. For example, supporting the Administration's Title IX directives that demand that due process be sacrificed for men accused of sexual assault on campus. So, finding one of their leaders talking about killing Trump is just same old, same old, the same illiberality that we have grown accustomed to seeing.

Bill Peschel said...

guildofcannibals says:

"You can give the power to sensor you to your council of your own personal fear of being embarrassed, I have a record that is verifiable that I do not agree"

Does it help that you do not post under your real name?

I post under mine. I am easily found. I have no problem with anything I say making the cover of the Post, because it forces me to be clear in what I say, and to consider the consequences of my actions.

The dark side of the Internet (and politics and the media) is that it's all personal. A person doesn't really rely on belief, more on their attitude toward *that person* (be it Obama, Bush, Trump, the person's spouse). It's real easy to translate not being able to take a good shit that morning into calling for a person's supporters to get shot.

Here's why I think that way. I worked on a newspaper copy desk for 20+ years. Most of the desk were flaming liberals. As a centrist, who believed in restraints on government spending, but legalized pot, gay rights and other social issues, I was a right-wing conservative compared to them.

One day, a copy editor who hates Bush with the fire of a thousand suns grumbled about the lack of WMDs in Iraq. This was long after the war, and since I knew from the NYT that a lot of them were shipped to Syria before the war, and that they did find quite a lot of bunkers containing chemical weapons, and Saddam had kept on his team of scientists ready to start up his nuke program, I decided to pass on what I had learned to him.

Didn't matter. His face displayed a mix of emotions that he couldn't settle on, then changed the subject.

That's when I realized that it didn't matter what the issue is. He hated Bush, and everything else followed from that. He worked for a newspaper, had access to streams of information from all the major media sources, yet refused to learn anything from it.

I think most voters are like that.

ken in tx said...

One of the reasons the Watergate burglars wanted to bug the Democrat office, was to find out if they were receiving secret support from the Soviet Union. After the fall of the Soviet Union, it was revealed that the Democrat Party was indeed receiving support from communist front organizations that were secretly funded by the Soviet GRU and KGB.

walter said...

n.n. It's clear you view abortion as the issue at the heart of everything. But do consider that after a point, all that might be noticed is a fixation that ultimately degrades the potency of your message...if people don't simply skip over it entirely.

Theranter said...

@Paul 1:09 “witnessed up close and personal absolute demonic and murderous mob hatred when she went into an anti-Bush rant”

Similar experience here at Notre Dame several years ago, huge audience, lecturer was an Islamic woman (I don’t even remember the subject) in her religion’s garb, and halfway through the lecture she raised her voice and said (with a seething, hateful tone) something to the effect of “It is all Bush’s fault—aaaaand it was for the oil!” and the crowd immediately went totally apeshit—standing, cheering, applauding loudly—even Theodore Hesburgh was on his feet and applauding. It not only shocked me that her comment was so seedy and incredibly “unscholarly” -- but I think I was more shocked at the response—if a vast percentage were academics and grad students (obviously none of which I am-- just a regular person) how could they think so narrowly? How can hatred blind them so badly they cannot even put things in context, nor admit any mitigating factors into their mind, nor even consider other positions? It was bizarre, and something I will never forget.

Michael said...

I took a look at this guy's Facebook page. It is odd that someone associated with the ACLU would post that it is advisable to unfriend people who support Trump. Now I know it is perfectly OK to hold this opinion but should not the ACLU be sorta supportive of people holding different points of view? I guess not.

His postings are a perfect example of the progressive mindset, one virtue signaling post after another.

cubanbob said...

Gahrie said...

In what universe is voting for Hillary reasonable?

I've reached the point where I don't understand why the Democrats hate Nixon so much...He governed like a Democrat, and compared to Obama and Hillary, his scandals are laughable.
12/12/15, 10:55 AM"

So true!

Coupe said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
walter said...

Theranter said...how could they think so narrowly? How can hatred blind them so badly they cannot even put things in context, nor admit any mitigating factors into their mind, nor even consider other positions?
--

Sifting and winnowing has been replaced with shuttering groupthink.
All a part of maintaining Two Americas

cubanbob said...

ken in tx said...

One of the reasons the Watergate burglars wanted to bug the Democrat office, was to find out if they were receiving secret support from the Soviet Union. After the fall of the Soviet Union, it was revealed that the Democrat Party was indeed receiving support from communist front organizations that were secretly funded by the Soviet GRU and KGB.

12/12/15, 1:41 PM

True indeed. And even after the fall of the USSR Sixties fronts like Stop The War and International A.N.S.W.E.R still exist and still get sketchy funding.

Anonymous said...

"....she went into an anti Bush rant. The only thing that would have slaked their thirst for blood and vengeance would be watching GWB drawn and quartered on stage. Their hatred was at the maximum level humans are capable of achieving from the looks of them. Fortunately they were to a man weaklings and physical cowards, as is the case with 90% of leftists."

This same vitriol is often evident in the comments sections here regarding Hillary or Obama from rightists. Such emotion isn't unique to any one party or ideology.

jr565 said...

he threatened to kill people. That is violent rhetoric. He might have caused someone like garage mahal to go on a rampage with all his violent talk.

jr565 said...

Campy wrote:
Reagan is Hitler, Bush is Hitler, Scott Walter is Hitler, Donald Trump is Hitler. Same old, same old."

If the lefties ever get a new idea, I'm sure they'll try it.

Seriously. There are plenty of dictators we could also be compared to. Reagan is Stalin. Reagan is Mao. Reagan is Pol Pot. Reagan is Mussolini. Why limit themselves just to Hilter.

Paul said...

Theranter,

Yes witnessing mob mentality in emotional meltdown mode is sobering to say the least.

I had a similar experience, albeit with an entirely different emotional pitch, in the late eighties. At the time I was playing in the Levon Helm Allstars and E Street drummer and douchebag extraordinaire Max Weinberg was in the band. We played the Stone Pony in Asbury Park, NJ, and Bruce Springsteen joined us on stage. The club must have had close to a thousand people crammed into it. The stage is only a couple of feet high and BS was standing two feet to my right. I was looking right into the eyes of the full on maniacal, surging, celebrity lusting-worshiping crowd. And I was scared. Security was struggling to hold them back and there was a brick wall behind us and nowhere to escape. They were truly crazy looking and I'll never forget it.

walter said...

"This same vitriol is often evident in the comments sections here"
A little different scenario, most would see.

CWJ said...

Amanda @3:21,

Despite your best efforts to selectively quote him, "Paul" was describing the people he saw at an event he attended in person. If you can discern the same vitriol here, then now that I know you can see right through the internet, I'll be more careful to smile when I comment. And here I thought only Captain Kangaroo could see me on the other side of the TV.

Anonymous said...


"...how could they think so narrowly? How can hatred blind them so badly they cannot even put things in context, nor admit any mitigating factors into their mind, nor even consider other positions."

I so agree, but with the shoe on the other foot. It's something that has often come to my mind when reading the daily rantings about Obama or Hillary, or the very narrow worldview of many commenter's here. Ironic we both think the exact same thing about the other side.

Anonymous said...

CWJ, it's the sentiment, the words, not the expressions on your faces, as yes indeed I can't see them. I would think you'd have understood that much, but never knows.

Paul said...

Bullshit. I move among all demographics due to my profession. Rich, poor, celebrities, blue collar, hipsters, cowboys, black, white, liberal, conservative, etc. No one puts on the hate like leftists. I hate Barack Obama, but not with the same demonic passion that my leftist acquaintances hate republicans. Unlike them I do not have the all consuming bloodlust, just disgust.

I have to keep my politics in the closet or the oh so tolerant liberals who make up a majority of the urban music scenes would ostracize me, whereas all the conservative musicians I know wouldn't hesitate to hire a liberal if they are qualified.

The old saying that conservatives look for converts while liberals look for heretics has a lot of truth to it.

n.n said...

walter:

That is likely true, but there isn't a viable alternative for judgment other than documented, reproducible, consistent principles. I recognize two moral principles or axioms that guide my thinking: individual dignity and intrinsic value. The latter for two reasons. One, mitigate or prevent debasement of human life. Two, mitigate or prevent corruption caused by policies and programs enacted on a false premise or with ulterior motives.

That said, I do not follow a pro-choice philosophy. I make a conscious effort to seek outcomes and choose positions that are internally, externally, and mutually consistent. For that, I cannot adopt selective moral, scientific, etc. principles. I cannot value my life less than other lives. I cannot accept the perversion or conflation of logical domains (e.g. science) for convenience, opportunism, money, prejudice, comfort, etc.

Anyway, people will believe what they want to believe for a variety of reasons. I do not expect to change anyone's opinion who has not already chosen, if not actually acted upon their own determination. My comments are intended to inform and challenge other people's convictions, and as a personal catharsis to relieve the dissonance caused by the inconsistency in orientations and behaviors that I observe.

Paul said...

I was always apolitical but left leaning because that was milieu I inhabited. I didn't think about politics much, hell I didn't even vote. I just knew Democrats were better than Republicans and couldn't fathom why anyone would vote Republican.

The first thing that shook me out of my complacency was being accosted by an unhinged radical environmentalist while riding my mountain bike on a singletrack trail. According them I was destroying the environment and sullying the purity of their experience communing with nature. They were red faced screaming at me. WTF? That was not to be an isolated incident as I was soon to find out. These nuts had a full on war with off road cyclists, and there were a lot of them.

The second event that moved me permanently out of the brain dead leftist camp was the attack on September 11, 2001.

Anonymous said...

It's uncanny that each side claims the other is more hateful, more demonically passionate, have bloodlust, etc. it would be comical if it weren't so disturbing. I certainly hope that if Americans truly have to pull together one day, if some major catastrophic event occurs, they will be able to. I choose to believe we would.

CWJ said...

OK, Amanda. You have Paul's response. He's not buying what you're selling. If you want to claim it's the same vitriol, then give us some examples. I see lot's of dislike bleeding over to hate of Obama and Hillary in Althouse's comment section including myself. In my case, it's from personal experience.

CWJ said...

I'll believe it when I see the left side of the aisle pay with their jobs, reputations, jail time, being disinvited to speak, having lawfare practiced against them, etc. Keep walking it back Amanda. Keep walking it back.

Paul said...

Nothing uncanny about it. Having stood on both sides of the aisle I can assure you that the left is more hateful, self righteous, dishonest, and fundamentally immature.

Anyone with eyes in their head can watch the POTUS and clearly see the only time he becomes truly incensed is when he lashing out at his domestic political enemies. The fact the left sees Republicans as a greater threat than Islam (in the past it was communism-socialism) is all you need to know to realize that the two sides aren't equal in the justification of their respective enmities.

The international left always viewed the US as its greatest foe and obstacle in its goal for world socialism. The American left are their progeny, and it's only logical they view traditional Americans and their values as their number one enemy.

eric said...

When Democrats do something terrible, the excuse is always the same. Everyone does it.

Yuck.

Moneyrunner said...

"It's uncanny that each side claims the other is more hateful, more demonically passionate, have bloodlust,"

How about we do it one at a time, Amanda. Liberals with the power to punish people think it's perfectly fine to force Christian bakers to provide a cake for same sex ceremonies. Refusal means fines in excess of one-hundred thousand dollars. Hateful, demonic, passionate, or just?

Meanwhile ending the flow of Muslims into the US until we figure out which one will want to kill us is just like sending Jews to the gas chamber.

Your turn.

walter said...

My point Amanda, is that there is/used to be a different expectation of considered arguments and perspective between formal uni presentations among the intelligentsia and online blogs. You know that..just skip over it. Convenient.