These are not female-to-male transgender persons but girls who prefer the activities offered in Boy Scouts: "they would rather be camping and tying knots than selling cookies."
And they say shifting attitudes are on their side: Bathrooms are going unisex in deference to transgender people, the Supreme Court has redefined marriage to include same-sex couples, and even the Boy Scouts have softened their stance on gay scouts and scout leaders.
In this liberal-minded community, about two hours north of San Francisco, a group of girls ages 10 and 13 who have named themselves the Unicorns... began to consider themselves Boy Scouts last fall, after they enrolled in a skills-building course, Learning for Life, that is affiliated with the organization and is offered to boys and girls. Several Unicorns had tried the Girl Scouts but found the experience too sedate: rest time and whispering instead of playing tag and lighting fires.
Rest time and whispering! Is that really what Girl Scouts do? Obviously, the Girl Scouts object to that characterization.
[E]xpanding the definition of “Boy Scout” is alarming some parents, who voiced concerns about the prospect of shared tents, the erosion of valuable boys-only time and the possibility that girls — who already outperform boys in many areas — might start to snap up all the leadership positions.
Posts
50 comments:
Bring in shared tents and I'd have liked the Boy Scouts.
Cue the feminists to explain to us why girls should be allowed to join the Boy Scouts, but the Girl Scouts must remain female only in order to protect a safe place for girls.
The entire world should be run based on the feelings of teenage girls.
The NY Times understanding of Boy Scouts is at a level of their understanding of crafts like knot tying and tent erecting.
Seems that the Girl Scouts need to do some serious re-thinking of what they offer. It looks like they do not understand their market.
Cub Scouts was about mothers, and small craft projects.
Boy Scouts was about dads, and field craft. Which is a fancy way of saying that it's OK to groove on sword ferns.
Girls can already join BSA affiliated groups (Explorer and Venture Scouts) at age 14.
Also, the American Heritage Girls are based off the cub scout/boy scout program instead of the GSA.
One thing about BSA which is nice is that the boys can work on things independently as well as with the troop. The GSA is more collectivist, so it's harder to pursue your own interests.
My girls are counting down the years until 14 so they can be Explorer scouts... Shooting and Rapelling and Whitewater Rafting instead of....selling cookies and going to the movies.
Life isn't fair. Get over it.
"they would rather be camping and tying knots than selling cookies."
So go camping and tie knots. Or do they need to have boys around to do those things?
Typical. The women can't fix their own organization, so they want to take someone else's.
Boy Scouts also had some lastingly weird Indian stuff.
There were never Indian knots though. Knots were always sailors.
Wow, nice place you've got here. You've fixed it up really well! Look at all this cool stuff! I don't have anything like that! I'll bet you have lots of other neat stuff too!
(Pouting) Hey, why aren't you letting me in? It's only fair, after all. You want to be fair, right? I mean, if you're not fair, I'll get my big brother to come over and beat you up until you let me in.
(Bang! Ouch!) Ok, let's put that little unpleasantness behind us. I'll just move in over here. You'll have to move some of your things to storage, or I can just burn it for you.
You know, I've been pretty patient, but you really have lots of annoying habits, you know? I think you should really stop that. And stop telling me what I can't do in here. I mean, it's our place, right? We're in this together.
I've asked you and asked you, and I'm at the end of my patience! Look, it's just not working out. My big brother and I voted, and you'll have to go. Your stuff's on the lawn. You know, if you weren't such a jerk, it would all have been cool.
Why don't these girls form a "camping club" of their own?
Daughter was a girl scout for nine years. Girl scouts have the option to have a very boy-scout-like program if the mothers in charge are up for it, or later if the girls are, as they are supposed to run things when older. No need to join the boys if its all about camping and outdoor adventure or messy experiments, from a program point of view.
Not that the girls (or their mothers) were ever very enthusiastic about this sort of thing. I suspect this is all about a few wanting to hang out with the boys, or the dads that usually run the boy scout troops, for the subset of girls that finds them more fun. And I don't mean sexual interest. The girl scouts in general arent much good for tomboys.
It's sad if Girl Scouts in Santa Rosa aren't doing outdoorsy stuff. There's lots of stuff to do pretty close by. Really, they should be trying to get the local Girl Scouts to do more of what they want. And it shouldn't be that hard - it's pretty easy to set up a new troop - they're not as territorial as the Boy Scouts.
If you don't like what your girl scout troop is or isn't doing, change the activities to what you would like to do.
The left is working hard every day to take down institutions they despise. The Boys Scouts are a largely traditional, patriotic, pro-American organization. So the Left isn't satisfied with having them de-funded, banned from public buildings, forced to accept homosexual leaders and members and largely ostracised. The Left wants the Boys Scouts of America as it exists today, destroyed.
Santa Rosa is one of the nicer places in California. Urban but with some very strong rural and agricultural roots. Great weather, relaxed living and close enough to the Bay Area to enjoy some of the fabulous restaurants and shows.
It would seem that the Girl Scouts would be wise to rethink some of their activity offerings and include more of the rugged outdoor things that these girls seem to be craving. Instead of going full on co-ed, just create a track of activities for those girls who are not satisfied with the frilly girly activities.
Let the girls choose which track they want to run on.
It's the uniform and patches they want. They only tolerate everything else. The Same with Henry Ford and Felix Wankle, they really just wanted the SS uniform and accouterments. Oh my - the accouterments - Sign me up!
Don't the girl scouts do camping trips and things like that? There is certainly overlap in the things girls and boys like to do, the issue of having two separate clubs is to allow girls to enjoy activities with girls and boys to enjoy activities with boys.
My daughter left Girl Scouts at age 14 to join the Boy Scout Venture Crew for all the reasons Deidre mentions. By 14 the other girls in her troop were more interested in talking about boys and sex and clothes than learning any kind of skills. And the GSA was just interested in selling cookies.
Camping, hiking, whitewater rafting are all things Girl Scouts do if that's what the girls plan, and they have leaders who are willing to do it. Dads can be Girl Scout leaders. When I was the leader of a Girl Scout troop, my junior high/high school girls hiked most of the Appalachian trail through New England, spent a week camping on the beach in the Virgin Islands, and routinely was the winning patrol at the Boy Scout Freezeree. We camped in all four seasons. I was recently asked to chaperone a similar age group on a trip. They preferred staying in hotels and eating out at restaurants. When I offered to take them camping, they weren't interested in going. My point is that Girl Scouts should be driven by the interests of the girls. Sometimes the more adventurous girls have a hard time finding a leader, but that's more of a function of the community and not the organization itself.
Gahrie said...
Cue the feminists to explain to us why girls should be allowed to join the Boy Scouts, but the Girl Scouts must remain female only in order to protect a safe place for girls.
Gloria Alred made exactly this argument on Larry King (IIRC) back in the 90s.
She was suing a Boy Scout troop to let a girl in. When King asked if she were OK with the Girl Scouts admitting boys: Oh no! That's different.
Gloria Alred: Giving ambulance chasers a bad name for far too long.
John Henry
In this liberal-minded community
Problem number one.
The entire world should be run based on the feelings of teenage girls.
It is, now.
I can remember being in the Boy Scouts and the only thing we had on our mind was girls. That is all we talked about. Now, if you introduce girls into that atmosphere, then there really is a Santa Claus.
Precious little snowflake - here's a clue. Invite some like minded friends, girl or boys, and just go camping. Then, you can tie as many knots as you want, pitch as many tents as you want, build as many fires as you want. It's a nice big world out there beyond the confines of the stodgy ole Left-wing NY Times.
Here's a radical thought - what's in the best interest of the boys? Girls are doing better in K-12 and make up the majority of college graduates. Perhaps we need to consider why boys seem to be falling by the wayside.
There was an article a year or so ago about how the new president of the Girl Scouts was focusing on diversity and social justice issues. I wonder if there is a connection between these two stories.
There's already a program in the BSA that includes females; it's called Venturing, and its program is actually a lot more substantial and youth-led than that of the Boy Scouts.
Although I didn't participate in Cub Scouts, having worked a couple Cub Scout camp events, I can unequivocally say that it is a waste of time. I joined scouts when I was 13, and earned Eagle 5 years later. If you want your kids to be introduced to outdoor skills and other scout-like activities, you're better off doing it on your own.
Gender appropriation?
"Perhaps we need to consider why boys seem to be falling by the wayside."
We already know why. It's because they're infected with Toxic Masculinity.
Also because they're stupid and haven't had enough rocks thrown at them.
Philadelphia just made gender-neutral bathrooms the law.
This used to be a joke, back in the 70s or so. Boys using girl bathrooms and so forth. It was a joke. People laughed at people who made the joke.
I know a guy-- OK, it's my son-- who works hard as a volunteer firefighter. The females in his crew are not strong enough, not tough enough, and not aggressive enough, by and large, to do the work.
But he is required to depend upon these insufficient team members.
Kinda like Peyton Manning standing behind a line of 140-pounders.
Involved in Scouts.
Yes, Cub Scouts has been watered down due to liability. It's all in how the Pack is run and parental leadership.
Boy Scouts totally different then Cub Scouts, true. They just changed the CubScout program, I think they raised the bar.
The problem with CubScouts? Child custody issues. Seriously.
khowie13 said...
There was an article a year or so ago about how the new president of the Girl Scouts was focusing on diversity and social justice issues.
These ones?
"The girls, ages 8-12, are part of the 'Radical Brownies', an edgier, younger version of the Girl Scouts, where girls earn badges for completing workshops on social protests, and a beauty workshop that celebrate[sic] racial diversity."
(It's funny to me, but not to anyone else, I'm sure, because we call dog emissions "brownies".)
Will the girls in the Boy Scouts be able to work toward merit badges in masturbation like we boys do?
Why not? Girls who like camping with boys. If there's a way to exclude annoying kid/parent teams who only want to play out their civil rights hero fantasies, that is. Such things could certainly be voluntary (troop by troop).
I suppose the 'next they'll want to marry 5 women and a goat' objection is that it's just a step from 'each troop decides' to 'boys only' ones (who want to stay that way) being court-decided out of existence.
Typical. The women can't fix their own organization, so they want to take someone else's.
Bingo.
said...
Typical. The women can't fix their own organization, so they want to take someone else's.
Actually, the women BROKE their own organization. One of the reasons Cubs and Scouts are boy only is part of an agreement with GSA that Boy Scouts won't go co-ed. Don't know if it's a written agreement or an long term understanding, but anyone involved in Scouting knows it's there. Because GSA would then lose half or more of it's youth.
And American Heritage Girls is growing because GSA is broken. While it is not PC to say so, I know a number of women who pulled their girls from GSA after attending leader meetings with paid GSA staff. And noticing almost all staff had bumper stickers with pink triangles and rainbow flags. Actual real life parents in middle America for the most part want traditional role models for their kids for some odd reason.
And now there's Trail Life USA for those who think BSA has gone soft.
Remember Camp Fire Girls? It's now just Camp Fire and co-ed. I've never known anyone who belonged. It still exists and is an alternative youth group.
One thing to note about BSA. It's program is successful in producing leaders, and in civilizing young men. Will forcing changes on it allow the same outcome? Maybe, but more then likely, not. Why force BSA to change? The wonderful thing about America is it allows competition. There are alternatives to BSA, and GSA, a few of which I mentioned. If you think BSA would be just as successful co-ed, don't force BSA to change. Start your own group. Model it after BSA, not after Boy's and Girls Club. Find a philanthropist to equip some camps. Get your adult volunteers who think like you do, because you could never afford to run the program entirely with paid staff. If you're right, youth and parents will flock to it, and BSA will end up in the dustbin of history.
Or, you could persuade the government to run youth groups. There are models to follow. For example, Hitler-Jugend or The Vladimir Lenin All-Union Pioneer Organization. After all, if you're a liberal, you know the government does things better.
Renee said...
.....
The problem with CubScouts? Child custody issues. Seriously.
Not a joke by Renee. My youngest didn't go through Cubs. When he got to Tiger Cub age, there were 8 other boys in the den initially. All the other parents were single moms- wanted me to be their kids male role model. Not happening. There currently is a local pack. As far as I know, there is no male leadership in it. It's struggling.
There were never Indian knots though. Knots were always sailors.
A loose papoose cooks your goose; nevermind about lips and ships.
Yeah, and kids can't make it to the camping trip, because it's dad weekend. Of course dad could allow mom have the kids but its all about the custody schedule. Dad could take him, there's a football game on.
Wealthy suburbs packs survive, but once the demographics tip to a significant level of separated couples the pack can't survive.
As far as men and women using the same bathroom, I don't think it would add much of a hardship. Most women already know how to avoid contact with the public toilet.
As a man, I used to not care, but now I am very pro-active in defending my skin and clothing from contact with anything in public. At my last job I lived 2 miles from the office, so I went home and always used my bathroom. More than anything, it was the lack of proper ventilation. It's like they bought the best fan they could get for $1...
I probably have already said too much. I think it's the end of the world probably...
Tonight I went to the Dollar Store to get our laundry detergent and the cashier had a bunch of redness around her mouth. When she handed me my change, I ran out to the car and rubbed hand-cleaner all over, twice!
Gad! There's no telling what her mouth was up to.
Jesus, if I could have shared my sleeping bag with a 14 year old girl instead of a sock, I wouldn't have dropped out of the BSA. If only liberals had been pimping their young daughters back in the 60s.
My son is an Eagle Scout and my daughter is close to completing her Gold Award, which is the equivalent of an Eagle in GSA. They are different organizations with different goals, but neither works well unless the parents at the unit level are committed to making the program a success. My daughter would not have had a chance to make it as far as she has unless my wife had been willing to do a lot of work on behalf of their troop. If you have motivated kids and motivated parents, both programs work well, but you can't phone it in.
"might start to snap up all the leadership positions."
I think that means girls are "bossy"
Not be harsh...but can't boys have times where they can just be boys and not have to DEAL with girls?
I love women and all, but there are times I don't want to tolerate some of the nonsense.
Women demand men get no time away from them anywhere...and then wonder why men are less gentlemanly and chilvarous than in the past. Well, in the past, they had time where they could unwind from some of the annoyances of dealing with women. When somebody is fundamentally different than you and you have to live together as a family, having alone time with others like you can be a needed thing.
Another idea Westerners ripped off from India, the number zero, also has a cultural appropriation problem that must be redressed. A UN commission should be impaneled to determine a suitable reparation.
Not a joke by Renee. My youngest didn't go through Cubs. When he got to Tiger Cub age, there were 8 other boys in the den initially. All the other parents were single moms- wanted me to be their kids male role model. Not happening.
That does it, I'm volunteering to be a Boy Scout leader.
Go away, Laslo! Get your own Boy Scout troup!
I see where the girls are coming from, but isn't there a place for boys to have an organization that lets them be boys? As in, boys and not girls? Sexual differentiation is healthy and normal at that age for the ~98% of the population that is heterosexual and has conventional gender identity.
The whole subtext of the Boy Scouts is that boys are burning off energy and learning to be responsible men right at the time that hormones are turning on and they're starting to hit puberty. Male role models and growing up into traditional gender roles is sort of the point.
I was in Scouts in the mid 50's. Our whole Patrol was kicked out for using our dues to hold parties where we invited girls and did nothing but play kissing/petting games. Honest to god, we were the "Beaver" Patrol.....
Post a Comment