Ward and Parker shot to death, this morning in Roanoke Virginia.
UPDATE: "Authorities have identified the gunman who killed a TV reporter and photographer as former WDBJ employee Vester Lee Flanagan II" AKA Bryce Williams. He was pursued, and he shot himself and is now in custody and critical condition. Sometime between the murders and the self-shooting, he posted this on Twitter:
UPDATE 2: The murderer has died.
Posts
226 comments:
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Dear God.
Gender, age, race, religion of the shooter? We need to engage in some bias confirmation and obnoxious speculation.
The video captures an image of the what’s believed to be the suspected shooter before it cuts away.
That should either be an image of the suspected shooter or an image of what's believed to be the shooter.
This borders on a pet peeve of mine. How can a professional journalist write about crime and not understand the distinctions between suspect, perpetrator, etc.
Don't forget party affiliation and NRA membership potential, Scott.
CNN may speculate the shooter emerged from a black hole any minute.
I must say that if any of the victim were targeted as a specific individuals it seems odd to choose them during a live shot.
This borders on a pet peeve of mine. How can a professional journalist write about crime and not understand the distinctions between suspect, perpetrator, etc.
Nobody's in a subjunctive mood in these fast-breaking stories.
Alison Parker was interviewing Smith Mountain Lake Regional Chamber of Commerce Vicki Garnder during their morning newscast when the shooting occurred. No word on Garnder’s condition at this time.
The condition of the interview subject would be key to identifying motive, wouldn't it.
But the media focus is on "two of our own" have been shot.
@JAORE: Good catch.
The tweets from her boyfriend, who is also a TV journalist are heartbreaking.
https://twitter.com/chrishurstwdbj
EDH said...
The condition of the interview subject would be key to identifying motive, wouldn't it.
absolutely. I doubt it was disgruntled CoC people that did it. Perhaps there were other recent crime stories by this pair?
Tea Partier?
Has Brian Ross(D-hack) at ABC "news" blamed the Tea Party yet?
Instapundit has screen grabs of the shooter.
Disgruntled lover or disgruntled former employee, most likely the latter.
Who else is going to show up at 6 am?
You're not allowed to shoot young women. It's a cultural thing. It's also feminism, in rare agreement with the patriarchy.
The tweets from her boyfriend, who is also a TV journalist are heartbreaking.
No doubt, but it's gotten into entertainment.
A bullet tearing its way through my body is on a long list of things I want never to feel.
Unemployable ex-employee?
Yes, they say it's a disgruntled former employee. Obviously, trying to get as much attention as possible.
No word on whether he had any beef with these two particular people.
Everyone has a gun in the USA, which is why it is so dangerous to live here. Be ready to shoot the next good guy who changes into a bad guy right before your eyes.
The defensiveness in evidence here, for what may or may not be another horrific white on white murder, is in striking contrast to the confident denunciations that follow any black murder. Why is this? In fact, 85% of all white murders are committed by another white. White on white murder is a chronic problem in the white community.
Word is, perp is identified and being followed on Interstate. If he has any sense of civic responsibility, he'll save the State the trouble and expense of a trial ...
White Lives Matter
"The condition of the interview subject would be key to identifying motive, wouldn't it."
Somebody on to promote tourism. Guest was shot in the back, but still alive.
I don't have a gun. Damn, your theory is busted. Better start over.
(And I'm guessing you don't either. Are you a liar? Or are you from an alien species?)
Gotta wonder how many people at Hillary! HQ saw this and immediately thought, "Thank God, we're out of the news cycle for another 24-48 hours."
" White on white murder is a chronic problem in the white community."
Well, the retard wing of the community has been heard from.
Did you see the screen shot ?
Hey UnReasonableMan. The murderer is a Black.
Did you see the screen shot ?
Time for a national discussion about black on white murder?
Police were looking for a light skinned black male 6’3″ 250lbs in a silver mustang headed north on I-81 born in 1973.
ARM could not be reached for comment.
Idiot.
SomeoneHasToSayIt said...
Hey UnReasonableMan. The murderer is a Black.
How could you possibly know what race he is until he has had a chance to self-identify?
The moron posted the video on twitter of him shooting the female. He said it is about a job dispute and race. And yes, he's black.
My question for ARM is, why do you keep fucking that chicken? What motivates you to obscure the problems of crime in the black community?
ARM's solution to the black on black violence problem is to declare it not to be a problem.
Why is it not a problem? Because sometimes white people kill other white people. Or, in this case, a white black man is alleged to have killed two white people and shot a third, but let's leave that aside and just marvel at how ARM puts the reason in Reasonable.
SomeoneHasToSayIt said...
The murderer is a Black.
Doesn't change the fact that 85% of white murders are committed by whites. Focus on the real problem. Though it is striking that Althouse once again wants to ignore that problem.
John Tuffnell said...
ARM's solution to the black on black violence problem is to declare it not to be a problem.
Untrue. I think it is a terrible problem. Just not really any of my business since it has minimal effect on my life.
Why is it not a problem? Because sometimes white people kill other white people.
Sometimes??? 85% of the time for white murders.
Michael K said...
Did you see the screen shot ?
Didn't look and, as noted in the original post, that was not what interested me. As I said, what interested me is that when the race of the assailant was unknown there was so much defensiveness. It is remarkably different to the confident denunciations that occur when the race is already known. Why is that?
Time for a national discussion about black on white murder?
Now that the murderer is probably not an NRA, Confederate flag waiving white guy this will fade quickly. Or, we'll start hearing about how a discriminatory hostile work environment at the station forced the shooter's actions.
Yes, in a true workplace violence story about a black man killing two white people let's make the focus of discussion something completely unrelated to this story in any aspect. Face it, you're squirelling.
Oh, ARM, I just shake my head...
https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2013/crime-in-the-u.s.-2013/offenses-known-to-law-enforcement/expanded-homicide/expanded_homicide_data_table_6_murder_race_and_sex_of_vicitm_by_race_and_sex_of_offender_2013.xls
I await your predictable response...
Wow, he was a former on-air reporter. Not a behind-the-scenes guy.
AReasonableMan said...
The defensiveness in evidence here, for what may or may not be another horrific white on white murder, is in striking contrast to the confident denunciations that follow any black murder.
What defensiveness are you talking about? Who is defending what?
"Focus on the real problem. Though it is striking that Althouse once again wants to ignore that problem."
You're going to get a hernia lifting these straw man arguments. The actual numbers of white on white murders is a tiny fraction of black on black murders. I know that bothers you because you wish the BLM story of police killing innocent young black boys was true.
It's not.
Damn...I just watched the video the shooter posted on Facebook. Cold blooded. I'll be surprised if he allows himself to be taken alive.
Why weren't the reporters armed?
kcom said...
Face it, you're squirelling.
When 85% of white murders are committed by whites, what exactly is the squirrel that you are talking about?
In the first few hours after a breaking news story breaks, it is generally a good idea to not make too many comments or believe too much reporting, since very often, things are just flat out wrong in the initial reports.
Wait and see is a perfectly fine mode to be in.
ARM might be interested in this although I doubt it.
He also posted his own video of the shooting -- the clip on twitter did not include the actual shooting, but it had him pulling out his gun to aim it at the female reporter's chest.
He also complained that after working with him just one time, Allison reported him to Human Resources.
He thinks this was a breach.
He probably scared the shit out of her.
Given the fact that this lunatic just murdered two people and filmed himself murdering them, I'm going to go out on a limb and say he said creepy, weird things to Allison which made her scared of him.
He is bragging about the murders and why he killed her.
Yes, ARM, just another sociology experiment.
ARM ignores the actual murder rate.
I will have to say, given the recent Twitter/Facebook video, that, uh, well -- I'd say if this is the guy, the motive is clear.
Oh, Jesus, ARM's on his hobby horse again.
[I don't think Twitter should have suspended his account. Time he's tweeting is time he's not, you know, running away from the cops and/or deciding to shoot more people. Let him live tweet his own arrest if he wants.]
ARM, it is no surprise that victims and perpetrators tend to be of the same race. Your 85% figure for whites, which is high by a few percentage points, and also includes Hispanics, is significant. So is the over 90% figure for black-on-black.
Can you see any differences in the magnitude of the overall homicide rate?
"From 2010 through 2012, the annual rate of homicide deaths among non-Hispanic white Americans was 2.5 per 100,000 persons, meaning that about one in every 40,000 white Americans is a homicide victim each year. By comparison, the rate of homicide deaths among non-Hispanic black Americans is 19.4 per 100,000 persons, or about 1 in 5,000 people per year.
Black Americans are almost eight times as likely as white ones to be homicide victims, in other words.
So for white Americans, the homicide death rate is not so much of an outlier. It’s only modestly higher than in Finland, Belgium or Greece, for instance, and lower than in Chile or Latvia."
http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/black-americans-are-killed-at-12-times-the-rate-of-people-in-other-developed-countries/
Murder of blacks by other blacks is an outlier.
No one is arguing the black on black murder is not a serious problem, but the primary problem for whites is white on white murder.
" the primary problem for whites is white on white murder. "
No, the primary problem for whites is finding a job in Obama's America.
"No one is arguing the black on black murder is not a serious problem, but the primary problem for whites is white on white murder."
Dude, you jumped to a conclusion and you were wrong.
The shooter is already accusing the victims of making racist comments.
The black murderer of two white unarmed young people just killed himself.
Good. Save the taxpayers of Virginia some money
When 85% of white murders are committed by whites, what exactly is the squirrel that you are talking about?"
Whether your arguments are good or bad, whether your facts are good or bad, what you're saying has absolutely nothing to do with this story. A black employee (former) or a company shot two white employees (current) of the company and you decided the story is about how many white people kill other people, regardless of whether they work at the same company. You're right, it's not a squirrel. It's a magical unicorn.
He's dead. Killed himself. Coward.
AReasonableMan said...
The defensiveness in evidence here, for what may or may not be another horrific white on white murder, is in striking contrast to the confident denunciations that follow any black murder. Why is this? In fact, 85% of all white murders are committed by another white. White on white murder is a chronic problem in the white community.
8/26/15, 9:54 AM
You see, Althouse commenters, you are horribly racist because you started in about black murderers. I know what you are going to say: "But no one started in about black murderers!" and, if one were to scroll up to the posts prior to ARM's 9:54 post, it is clear that no one had but you are all still racist because ARM says so.
Now, ARM, on the other hand, is very concerned about black lives. Here is the evidence:
John Tuffnell said...
ARM's solution to the black on black violence problem is to declare it not to be a problem.
AReasonableMan replied...
Untrue. I think it is a terrible problem. Just not really any of my business since it has minimal effect on my life.
8/26/15, 10:29 AM
Oh, uh... I guess ARM doesn't care about black lives after all. My bad! Maybe he'll care more when he finally realizes his 85% stat is bullshit. Who am I kidding? He already knows it is bullshit.
(EDIT: had to tweak my first sentence as it appeared directed to ARM rather than everyone not ARM.)
"The murderer is a Black.
Doesn't change the fact that 85% of white murders are committed by whites."
Also doesn't change the fact that generic brand cereal often tastes as good as the name brand stuff, which is about equally relevant to this case as your "white on white" violence nonsense.
The fact is there are a lot of disturbed people out there and guns are not that hard to come by if someone is determined to get one. It's enough to accept that something is an outrage and a tragedy without trying to advance political points over it.
"No one is arguing the black on black murder is not a serious problem, but the primary problem for whites is white on white murder."
Yes, so what. You really seem to be saying quite clearly that white people should only worry about white people. Odd. I thought we put that thinking behind us 50 years ago, when we decided mankind should worry about mankind. You're not going to get any "progress" with your Bantustan attitude.
Holy shit ARM, that's got to be some kind of a record! 0 to "couldn't be more wrong in choosing an example" in nothing flat. Your point is wrong, anyway, since the only real defensiveness you'll find is in your own head.
I saw the clip on CNN in an elevator at work, w/o sound, and was surprised they played it at all--really brutal video.
Seriously, who cares what color he was? So what if he is a black disgruntled employee. How many white disgruntled employees have gone postal? The guy had work related issues.
He was going to go to college.
ARM this morning: White people are too focused on black-on-white murder and not focused enough on white-on-white murder, and as an example I'll use this recent shooting. Oh, this shooting is an example of black-on-white murder? My point exactly!
Clown shoes, bro.
The shooter complained that one of his victims called him a name or something, which is more than enough excuse for the BLM to blame the victim. The murderer is a disgruntled negro fighting against oppression, soon to be a regruntled ex-negro.
The killer complained that one of his victims reported him to HR after one experience with him. Anybody else understand why she might have done that ?
I'm not sure I would call him "disturbed" unless you are also calling the BLM protestors who took over the Sanders and O'Malley rallies disturbed. This is what passes for black acceptable behavior these days.
His problems began with the decision to name him Vester.
Matt: Maybe he'll care more when he finally realizes his 85% stat is bullshit. Who am I kidding? He already knows it is bullshit.
The stat in itself is not bullshit. For 2013, at least, around 83% of white murders were white-on-white. However, his inferences from that number are 100% bullshit. (If 100% of murders of whites were committed by other whites, it would tell you absolutely nothing about whether "white on white murder is a chronic problem in the white community". I know you understand why that's so, but I'm honestly not sure about ARM.)
ARM obviously pulled his innumerate talking points on the subject from the Vox romper room of arithmetically-challenged SJWs. To be fair to the man, I'm not sure, as I said, that he understands why his claim is bullshit. (You might think that any apparently functional adult struggling with basic statistics like this was putting you on, but you'd be surprised.)
"I'm not sure I would call him "disturbed" unless you are also calling the BLM protestors who took over the Sanders and O'Malley rallies disturbed. This is what passes for black acceptable behavior these days."
I'd qualify that as "this is what passes for black acceptable behavior these days among the shrieky racialist Left". I'm pretty certain normal black people don't tolerate that crap any more than normal white people. BLM gets a pass from the same people who consider Ta Nahesi Coates a deep and insightful thinker.
""No one is arguing the black on black murder is not a serious problem, but the primary problem for whites is white on white murder."
Dude, you jumped to a conclusion and you were wrong."
And somehow, I'm not expecting him to issue a mea culpa.
The video grab I saw, shows him aiming his pistol at her gut. Gut shots are really meant to cause the victim a lot of pain before they bleed out rapidly from the severed arteries.
This man was not a nice man.
I don't see what the Black Lives Matter group/movement has to do with someone gunning down his co-workers.
And may the odds be ever in your favor.
"I'm not sure I would call him 'disturbed' unless you are also calling the BLM protestors who took over the Sanders and O'Malley rallies disturbed. This is what passes for black acceptable behavior these days."
Hmmm...equating black protestors with an ex-employee who murders two of his former colleagues and saying this (all) passes for "black acceptable behavior these days."
This must be what passes for "acceptable" levels of racism these days.
BTW I haven't mentioned because I don't believe everyone doesn't know this...
Most murders are among acquaintances. Stranger murders are on the rise, or were, but still the clear majority is family and friends and coworkers and such.
Most white people know white people. Most black people know black people. It is obvious that most murders will be in-group.
AReasonableMan said...
The defensiveness in evidence here,
There are so many opportunities in life to not be an a-hole, how can one person miss them all?
Everyone has a gun in the USA, which is why it is so dangerous to live here. Be ready to shoot the next good guy who changes into a bad guy right before your eyes.
France doesn't have this "gun problem" yet they've had multiple attempted mass homicides this year. Odd, huh?
The defensiveness in evidence here, for what may or may not be another horrific white on white murder, is in striking contrast to the confident denunciations that follow any black murder. Why is this? In fact, 85% of all white murders are committed by another white. White on white murder is a chronic problem in the white community.
So, completely wrong again, eh?
Honestly, how do you live with yourself?
Doesn't change the fact that 85% of white murders are committed by whites.
Two people were murdered, you stupid shit. Another injured rather badly.
But, yes, let's beat the drum about racist white on white crime for a case that was not remotely that.
In the first few hours after a breaking news story breaks, it is generally a good idea to not make too many comments or believe too much reporting, since very often, things are just flat out wrong in the initial reports.
And when BLM activists are involved, things being wrong aren't really all that relevant.
And somehow, I'm not expecting him to issue a mea culpa.
Is that reasonable to expect of him?
Untrue. I think it [black on black murder] is a terrible problem. Just not really any of my business since it has minimal effect on my life.
I also think black on black murder is a terrible problem, but I want to do something about it. I want to find and support people who will get the Black community to teach their young men not to react with violence with every perceived "diss." And that's what this was -- a violent reaction to a perceived "diss." Now two young people are dead and the shooter himself is in critical condition and may be dead himself soon. All because the guy felt himself to be dissed.
@ ARM -
You keep repeating that 85% figure for white on white homicides. I'm wondering where you get that number, since UCR's don't include statistics for race in multiple offender situations, multiple victim incidents, and the like.
In fact, the UCR's only include racial breakdown for single offender-single victim, identified offender crimes, which are heavily biased for domestic or argument type incidents. Which are heavily biased for crimes within an acquaintance or family relationship. Which are heavily biased for same race and ethnic group. Which statistic is only about 40% of total murders reported each year.
But then, I suspect you knew that and kept saying it anyway, because it fit your meme, even though it's not really accurate.
Uniform Crime Reports do not classify or analyze by ethnic or race murders which involve multiple suspects and/or multiple offenders, and obviously, cannot do so for crimes with unknown offenders. or about 60% of all reported murders each year.
In other words, your 85% number is so much hot air.
So, also for instance, UCR's do not categorize arrests for murder by race or ethnicity cross referenced by motive or situation, because that might put to bed any claim that DP cases are racially biased in application, since, as example, crimes for profit versus crimes in the heat of passion could explain disparity in the application of the DP.
The UCR's are both subject to manipulation by agencies and certainly to political whims in the published analysis, witness your continued BS on the subject of ethnicity and murder.
Anglelyne said...
Matt: Maybe he'll care more when he finally realizes his 85% stat is bullshit.
The stat in itself is not bullshit. For 2013, at least, around 83% of white murders were white-on-white. However, his inferences from that number are 100% bullshit. (If 100% of murders of whites were committed by other whites, it would tell you absolutely nothing about whether "white on white murder is a chronic problem in the white community"
Let's say no whites ever murdered anyone. Clearly, in that case, white on white murder is not a chronic problem. If, on the other hand, whites kill approximately two and a half thousand whites year after year, then that seems, to me at least, to be a chronic problem. Although, somewhat less of a problem than the roughly 8,000 people killed each year by white drunk drivers.
It is unquestionably the case that black men murder, mainly other black men, at a higher rate, than white men murder. But white men murder at a much higher rate than white women. Why not make a bigger issue out of this second disparity?
Angelyne, the stat is bullshit. "White" includes all Hispanics/Latinos.
Hopefully this Flanagan fellow's deplorable actions can be used to raise awareness about the growing problem of Irish on White murders in America.
"And somehow, I'm not expecting him to issue a mea culpa."
When pigs fly. His moniker is a joke.
Blogger Nichevo said...
Most murders are among acquaintances. Stranger murders are on the rise, or were, but still the clear majority is family and friends and coworkers and such.
Most white people know white people. Most black people know black people. It is obvious that most murders will be in-group.
Some commonsense from Nichevo.
Nichevo,
"Most murders are among acquaintances. Stranger murders are on the rise, or were, but still the clear majority is family and friends and coworkers and such."
This was on South Park! Well, sort of. Butters was out playing in the park and was almost abducted and killed by a stranger, so the parents made all their children wear GPS tracking helmets at all times and hired Tuong Lu Kim, the proprietor of City Wok, to build a great wall around the city to keep out the dangerous strangers (because everyone knows that the Chinese are skilled at building walls). But then the parents learned that, statistically, children are most likely to be victimized by family members, so the parents sent the young children out of the city to live out on their own in the wilderness since, you know, that way they'd be safe from predatory family members.
Fortunately, as everyone knows, any time the Chinese try and build a wall, Mongolians try to break it down. So when the Mongolian Horde arrived, it turned out they had the South Park children with them and the kids were reunited with their parents and all was well.
Given that most murder victims are killed by someone they know, the only way to be safe is to not know anyone of any kind. I'm well on my way to that!
I missed that episode. Sounds good.
Sounds like this jerkoff filed a bunch of nonsense EEOC complaints. You can basically smell the bull because in one article he said the station he complained against retaliated against him by telling him "this means war."
Retaliation for EEOC activity can sometimes happen, but I would submit that in almost no case would any manager ever be stupid enough to actually say "this means war." Is it possible for a manager to do something so dumb? Sure, but the ratio of "manager making overt threat for EEOC activity" vs. "complainant making something up completely" is pretty massive.
If this were reversed, and there were a bunch of white racists out there claiming, "White lives matter." and rejecting the equivalent, "All lives matter." or even "Black lives matter." and this murder were of two black people by a white ex employee, you and I both know what the media would say. This was a direct result of the "White lives matter" movement.
Of course they would. They'd say, this is what happens when you use this sort of rhetoric.
The murderer is a Black.
By Friday, he will be the victim, and the 24 year old talking head will be his oppressor.
Age/weight discrimination? Two people under 30, and one over 40 and slightly heavy as well.
I don't have a dog in this particular hunt, but has anyone on any blog ever picked a more unsuited avatar or blog name than "A Reasonable Man.?"
ARM., nobody gives a single steaming shit what your pecker-wranglers type out in this forum. You are seriously beyond parody. You have zero shame, even less intellect, and your "facts" consistently turn out to be bullshit. You've become a punching bag, filled with nonsense, that serves no other purpose but to rile people up with your stupidity.
Spend a whole week in Provo, and then walk down MLK Blvd in Chicago at night. Come tell me after that which culture is more violent and murderous. If you ever come face to face with reality, I sorta hope you survive. Maybe you'll learn something.
I was expecting the usual invocation of what I call "the A attacking B gives C the right to attack D fallacy." (A being the shooter, B being his victim, C being "liberals" and other State fellators, and D being peaceful, defensive-only gun-owners.*) But one I saw the shooter's photograph, I figured: This one will go away too fast for the statists to make much political hay out of it.
*i. e., about 99% of gun-owners.
@ Bobby, that was an awesome episode. Even my wife, who hates vulgar potty humor, laughed her cute little butt off.
"Not so fast, you ingrates. Public News Team is taking a break from its pledge drive to kick some ass. No commercials, no mercy."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KoSmxnBXMGU#t=1m55s
If you are a white person who is murdered, there is about a one in six chance that your murderer will be a Black person. If you are a Black person who is murdered, there is about a one in twelve chance that your murderer will be a white person.
http://1.usa.gov/1SwHtFR
"I don't have a dog in this particular hunt, but has anyone on any blog ever picked a more unsuited avatar or blog name than "A Reasonable Man.?""
It is funny, isn't it?
I don't see what the Black Lives Matter group/movement has to do with someone gunning down his co-workers.
Exactly.
ARM decides to go play in the mud. No one else has to join him.
Birches wrote:
ARM decides to go play in the mud.
Racist! Hisss . . .
Kyzernick said...
then walk down MLK Blvd in Chicago at night.
How regularly do you do this?
Birches said...
I don't see what the Black Lives Matter group/movement has to do with someone gunning down his co-workers.
Exactly.
Projection, never mentioned BLM.
ARM has the most aggressively white avatar I've ever seen.
Racist!
Get him!
--He says has suffered racial discrimination, sexual harassment and bullying at work --He says he has been attacked by black men and white females --He talks about how he was attacked for being a gay, black man.
http://abcnews.go.com/US/shooting-alleged-gunman-details-grievances-suicide-notes/story?id=33336339
Remember, white straight folks. When a gay Black man murders you, it is your fault!
ARM: How regularly do you do this?
In my life, I've been on foot at night in the South Side of Chicago twice. Three times if you count one instance in January, but I don't count it, because the thugs and punks are all indoors during the winter. Both times I encountered shady individuals. The first time, I think the fact that I was the beefiest I've ever been in my life saved me from confrontation. The second time, it was a passing group of people (cliche, but it looked like a church meeting group) that I feel caused the punk following me to turn back. He'd been 20 paces or so behind me, catching up slowly, and after those people passed, he was gone - and not among their group, unless he changed clothes right on the spot.
"Most murders are among acquaintances"
No, they're not. Most SOLVED murders were among acquaintances. That's because they're easier to solve. Those numbers also include people termed "acquaintances" which might mean people in rival criminal gangs, or different drug trafficking groups but which are known to each other, if only by street name.
You cannot conflate solved murders with unsolved murders. Domestic related murders are usually cleared by arrest within hours or days. Murders committed during an argument among friends or family likewise get solved quickly and usually, pretty painlessly. Some trends, like realtionships between suspect and victim, are over-represented in known solutions and under-represented in unsolved cases.
The FBI says about 45% of murders are unknown in terms of relationship of victim to offender. These mainly represent the unsolved murders, which are not those committed by family and friends. These are the for-profit and during other felony crimes.
Although, that time in January, I did hear what could have been a domestic incident happening in one of the houses I walked by. Could have been a video game, I guess, but it didn't sound like simulated (or real) gunfire to my ears.
A Reasonable Negro, most murders in Japan are Asian-on-Asian, but the Japanese would still be rightly more afraid of getting killed by you than by the average Japanese, because they know what you and your homie "Bryce Williams", or Vester Flanagan, or whatever that ape called himself, are like.
This guy was fired from TV stations in Florida, Texas, and North Carolina. I don't think the Virginia station would have hired him if he was white. They hired him because they needed a black guy on air figured he was just incompetent. They could put up with that. You know that if you watch much local TV. They didn't know he was dangerous. The other stations could have told them, but they could have been sued for doing so.
Matt: Angelyne, the stat is bullshit. "White" includes all Hispanics/Latinos.
Yeah, I know that, Matt, and that Hispanics are "white" when they're perps and "Hispanics" when they're victims, and all the other problems with the stats that JCC outlines. The point is, that even taking the misleading UCR stats at face value, ARM's "point" is still 100% bullshit even on those terms.
It's not like the dishonest/mendacious little shits are going to do anything but bang on their empty garbage cans and screech if you point out the niceties of accurate data collection. It wouldn't make any difference if everyone were using accurate stats that indicated that the actual number were, say, 70%, not 85%. People like ARM would still be making the same stupid, invalid (or dishonest) inference from that figure. By ARM logic, if one white in a community of 200 million whites is murdered by another white in a year, that community has a "chronic white-on-white murder problem", because the white-on-white murder rate is 100%.
Saw his photo. He was one ugly mofo who did an even uglier thing. Too bad he ranted about being gay and black. That hurt his sympathy quotient, IMO.
"This must be what passes for "acceptable" levels of racism these days."
Among the hard left that's true. But then almost anything passes for racism among the hard left.
The fact is that BLM is all about invented racism and so was this killer.
it's interesting to see that he was fired from other TV stations before. The reason these people hired him with that record is revealing but this is America in 2015.
"The other stations could have told them, but they could have been sued for doing so." I'll bet the info was passed but privately and deniably.
Does anyone think a white man with Obama's resume would have been leeched president ?
"elected" not "Leeched" but it is an interesting autocorrect move.
Poor Alison Parker is about to be turned into a racist by the MSM - driving this poor black man to kill her almost in self defense.
I doubt ARM is interested in the killer's ranting an=bout "racism." Even so, here it is.
In the 23-page document faxed to ABC News, the writer says “MY NAME IS BRYCE WILLIAMS” and his legal name is Vester Lee Flanagan II.” He writes what triggered today’s carnage was his reaction to the racism of the Charleston church shooting:
“Why did I do it? I put down a deposit for a gun on 6/19/15. The Church shooting in Charleston happened on 6/17/15…”
“What sent me over the top was the church shooting. And my hollow point bullets have the victims’ initials on them."
Yup. Not his history of aggressive behavior. Another "young black man killed by racism."
"The other stations could have told them, but they could have been sued for doing so."
-- It is possible [I've only half followed the story, so I could be wrong], that this is the first obviously violent thing he has done. So, he MAY have just been hard to work with and incompetent, but only now decided to be violent.
Wait -- he's linking the church shooting to his own personal slights [real or imagined?]
I think his deck may not be full.
I blame this murder on ARM and all the other apologists who refuse to accept that blacks are capable of and responsible for their own moral agency.
Yes, if you decide the Charleston shooting is a good motive for killing your co-workers you've got at least one screw loose.
Whereas the relatives of the Charleston victims reacted with grace, as did the city, this guy took the lesson of the killer. A lesson he was pre-disposed to gravitate to, apparently.
Wait -- he's linking the church shooting to his own personal slights [real or imagined?]
I think his deck may not be full.
He took the BLM movement to its logical conclusion...illogical as it may be.
I don't see anything where the killer mentions BLM. That's a movement that, I understand, is primarily focused on politicians and police officers, not coworkers who may or may not have said hurtful things.
ken in tx:
other stations could have told them, but they could have been sued
The implication is that this tragedy may have been prevented through judicious regulation of the social complex that denies consistent treatment of people.
ARM has dug himself such a deep hole that daylight has disappeared. Why oh why do you do this? If you are going to go all racialist on us, can't you see that the only person gunning for the reporter, the cameraman, and the guest was a black guy? The only person this white trio had to fear was a black guy. Why did you dive down this rabbit hole? Give your lefty talking points a rest. They are totally disconnected from this story.
Blogger Amadeus 48 said...
ARM has dug himself such a deep hole that daylight has disappeared.
Only in your mind. In fact no one has laid a finger on my original point, which was that before the race of the killer was known the tone was all very defensive, yet it would have been very different if the race was known beforehand, as evidenced by subsequent comments.
Rather than fixate on the problems of black people it seems to me that white people have enough problems of their own to deal with. A little humility goes a long way in life.
ARM:
"In fact no one has laid a finger on my original point, which was that before the race of the killer was known the tone was all very defensive"
People have repeatedly pointed out that no post here seems even slightly defensive, at all. You have ignored it, and you have not quoted one single post's "tone" that actually, you know, *seems* defensive. The only defensiveness I'm picking up is that which motivates *you* to see defensiveness in everyone else.
Oh, and personally, the first I heard of this story, I already knew the suspect was black. So, it seems, did everyone else. I don't know of anyone at this point who didn't know it almost right away, except for you.
Rather than fixate on the problems of black people it seems to me that white people have enough problems of their own to deal with. A little humility goes a long way in life.
We certainly do. One of the ones we have is an apalling arrogance, that somehow we can allow our countries to be invaded by hoards of non-natives and somehow, magically, our culture and standard of living will continue as it always has, because magic whiteness!
You don't see the China, or Mexico, or Turkey, or Peru, or Japan, or Iran, or Niger, or Jamaica, or Cuba, or Russia, or Namibia, or Korea (either one), or Uruguay, or Armenia, or Egypt, or India, or Thailand, or for that matter the Cherokee reservations have such an arrogance in the superiority and inevitable longevity of their cultures and people.
We could learn a lesson from such wise people. Mexico, for instance, does not allow non-Mexicans to have any say in political affairs. It is illegal, per the Mexican constitution, for a non-Mexican to attempt to influence a politician through the press - and yet here we have Americans acting shocked and outraged that Trump didn't cower to a Mexican citizen attempting to influence American policy to be more favorable to Mexicans! What arrogance.
Let us accept with humility accept our need to learn from other the need to police our own borders and take a proactive, continuous, and rigorous defense of our race and culture. A little humility here would solve lots of problem!
I wonder if the gunman was influenced by Louis Farrakhan's incitements to kill white people.
In fact no one has laid a finger on my original point.
Maybe because there is nothing there upon which to lay a finger. You still haven't pointed out any of this supposed defensiveness.
Gunman released Manifesto, (naturally) blamed Charleston.
ARM-- I went back and reread the posts before your original one. Other than a plea to God from one commenter asking for a quick resolution of confirmation bias based on the race, gender, religion of the shooter most comments assumed that it was disgruntled employee time, which it turned out to be. Do you see everything as a racial issue waiting to break out? In fairness, yours was the most defensive post of the first 20 or so. Give it up. We are all individual moral agents responsible for our own actions. The shooter had his own crazy reasons and killed himself.
Alexander,
"and yet here we have Americans acting shocked and outraged that Trump didn't cower to a Mexican citizen attempting to influence American policy to be more favorable to Mexicans!"
If you're referring to Jorge Ramos, he is a US citizen.
"Maybe because there is nothing there upon which to lay a finger. You still haven't pointed out any of this supposed defensiveness."
Yeah, I read thru the posts and I don't know what he's talking about. But this is a recurring theme of his.
before the race of the killer was known the tone was all very defensive, yet it would have been very different if the race was known beforehand, as evidenced by subsequent comments.
The killer may not be the only one who had a screw loose. ARM, I have been fairly tolerant of your, shall we say, idiosyncrasies ?
You are just not making sense in this thread. You seem determined to make a big deal out of the fact that white people are the majority and therefore most killings of whites is by other whites, small as that total is.
The fact is that, if the inner city black population is excluded, the level of violence in the US is about the same or less than Europe. "Gun violence," as the left likes to describe it, is a largely black phenomenon. Mexicans, the other segment of the "white" population, tends to use knives. When I was running a trauma center, we used to joke that Mexicans were afraid of guns.
Certainly, Mexico has shown we were wrong. The level of violence in Mexico has caused me to avoid it after decades of travel there. I will be in Europe in two weeks and plan to avoid the Eurostar train because of the level of violence at the French end of the "Chunnel." My friends and I will take the surface ferry from Dover which has better security.
I have no fear of my black neighbors as they have obviously chosen to "act white" by moving to Orange County and living a middle class life.
I grew up in South Shore, an area of Chicago that has grown violent as it has become black. I was there in June. I would not go there at night.
You may need to take some time off, ARM.
"Jorge Ramos, he is a US citizen."
He is a dual citizen, as are many Mexican immigrants. He has said he votes in Mexico elections.
"You may need to take some time off, ARM."
If there's one thing ARM doesn't do, it's "time off".
AReasonableMan said...
Rather than fixate on the problems of black people it seems to me that white people have enough problems of their own to deal with.
Well, I count you, and other educated idiots like you, as one of our problems. So there's that.
I don't see anything where the killer mentions BLM. That's a movement that, I understand, is primarily focused on politicians and police officers, not coworkers who may or may not have said hurtful things.
He cited payback for what happened in Charleston as another motivating factor and a desire for a race war. THAT is what BLM, in the end, leads to. They have zero proposals for fixing a problem outside of "shut up". I've yet to see any cogent proposal out of that burst of infantile tantrums (unlike, say, the Tea Party which actually provided lots of proposals and ideas)
Qwinn said...
Oh, and personally, the first I heard of this story, I already knew the suspect was black. So, it seems, did everyone else.
This is self-evidently not true, if you read the first posts, which suggests you didn't do what you said you did.
"A little humility goes a long way in life."
You could start us off by acknowledging this morning's blunder.
This is self-evidently not true, if you read the first posts, which suggests you didn't do what you said you did.
I did. Comments on how the press will mis-report this. Comments on the heart-breaking tweets from her boyfriend. Comments on the poor writing of the story linked.
...then you and r-v deciding to make cunts of yourselves. Your assumption of white-on-white crime was noted and you were referred to as a moron and a shit, both of which insult morons and shits worldwide.
Now that Mr. Flanagan is dead, we can create a new narrative without his manic rants. We can focus on the micro-aggressions that pushed him over the edge.
Since the shooter has now stated his attacks were revenge for the Charleston attacks, are there any particular flags, or historic symbols I should be aware that will need to be purged if in my possession?
Where will we be misdirecting our broadened outrage to avoid focusing on anything real?
I see the White House is attempting to start a national discussion on gun control.
Cuz....that works so well in France!!
What would happen if no one responded to ARM?? Would he cease to exist?
We can focus on the micro-aggressions that pushed him over the edge.
Mr. Bryce made it a point to say he suffered homophobic discrimination from fellow African-American males.
I don't think we'll see that horse beaten dead on tonight's Anderson Cooper show.
BTW...how many pages do you have to write before a crazy rant becomes a 'manifesto'?
"I blame this murder on ARM and all the other apologists who refuse to accept that blacks are capable of and responsible for their own moral agency"
White liberals believe people of color are sub-human and can be exploited with impunity. They're wrong about the former but have had great success with the latter. It hasn't worked out so well for African-Americans who, for the most part, are truly screwed.
The Unibomber wrote 35,000 words on something over 50 pages. I think he used a 00 font size.
The Virgina Tech shooter Cho was able to get his point across in about 12 pages.
Columbine's Eric Harris's manifesto appears to be less than 2 pages.
So, I don't think it is the page count. I think it is the crazy.
Michael K,
"He is a dual citizen, as are many Mexican immigrants. He has said he votes in Mexico elections."
Irrelevant to the point at hand. That still makes Ramos a US citizen. And, if your second sentence is accurate, then it especially undermines the point that Alexander was trying to make about the US letting non-citizens influence their political process and Mexico does not. I'm sure there are plenty of non-citizens that Alexander could have picked who would illustrate his point that non-citizens are influencing American politics, but he made the mistake of choosing a US citizen, which doesn't further his argument.
Kind of like ARM mistakenly suggesting that today's Virginia shooting was an example of white on white crime when, in fact, it was nothing of the sort. People make mistakes when they assume things. I think there's a saying about that.
Unreasonable Bitch has outdone himself in the beclowning department.
Way to go, sport.
The fact is that, if the inner city black population is excluded, the level of violence in the US is about the same or less than Europe.
Please provide a link for this assertion. You can't. Because it is, quite simply, a lie.
Actually, 'A Reasonable Man' is an excellent pseudonym if you take the first word as the Greek negative prefix used in 'amoral', 'atonal', and 'asocial'. He added the space to disguise the etymology.
Original Mike said...
You could start us off by acknowledging this morning's blunder.
That would involve there actually being a blunder, which there is not. In my first post I make it clear, not only that I do not know the race of the killer, but that this is not what interests me.
What interests me is that for a group of people who apparently feel confident in their superiority to the majority of blacks there is a surprising amount of defensiveness and then effort invested in criticism of blacks. If I was so confident of my own superiority to someone I would not invest any effort whatsoever. It would be pointless because it was so self-evident. The continuing decline of white families, the increasing problems with drug addiction in white communities, the difficulty many whites have in competing in a multinational economy, the stagnant or declining wages are all factors that have eaten away at white self-confidence. Trump understands this but he personally lacks this neurosis, for obvious reasons. As a consequence, he hasn't felt the need to kick blacks while they are down.
Hey, uh, Freder, this was handled earlier by John Tuffnell at 10:52. You're welcome.
"From 2010 through 2012, the annual rate of homicide deaths among non-Hispanic white Americans was 2.5 per 100,000 persons, meaning that about one in every 40,000 white Americans is a homicide victim each year. By comparison, the rate of homicide deaths among non-Hispanic black Americans is 19.4 per 100,000 persons, or about 1 in 5,000 people per year.
Black Americans are almost eight times as likely as white ones to be homicide victims, in other words.
So for white Americans, the homicide death rate is not so much of an outlier. It’s only modestly higher than in Finland, Belgium or Greece, for instance, and lower than in Chile or Latvia."
http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/black-americans-are-killed-at-12-times-the-rate-of-people-in-other-developed-countries/
President-Mom-Jeans said...
Way to go, sport.
Glad to see you are still alive. It pains me to know how incapacitated and feeble you remain. May God speed you on your journey.
"In my first post I make it clear, not only that I do not know the race of the killer,"
Fine
" but that this is not what interests me."
You've got to be kidding. It's all you're interested in. Someday, you're going to be one of these guys we see on the news.
Ohhh, Freder, guess what dude?!?!? At that link I provided, there's even a chart! Something you should be able to comprehend!
hmm, I'm already seeing commenters on other news sites/ blogs asking what these white people did to him to provoke him. Just wondering, did anyone ask what the people who were shot by Dylan Roof did to provoke him? Did that thought even cross anyone's mind?
Think about that, and how fucked up this country has become.
They were white, RecChief. Isn't that enough?
So for white Americans, the homicide death rate is not so much of an outlier. It’s only modestly higher than in Finland, Belgium or Greece, for instance, and lower than in Chile or Latvia."
First off, Chile is not in Europe. Secondly, I don't consider 25% higher (than Finland--2.0 per 100,000) "modestly higher". Belgium and Greece are even lower (1.7). You got me on Latvia (a true outlier in Europe). Look at the numbers for the rest of Europe, most of them have rates a third to a half that of U.S. whites.
I swear, most of the time you people don't even care if your links show the opposite of what you are saying.
And the contention by Michael K was that the rate of violence is "is about the same or less than Europe." Your chart proves he is full of shit.
BTW...how many pages do you have to write before a crazy rant becomes a 'manifesto'?
If you can't stae your grievances and your premise on one piece of single spaced paper you probaly have a mental problem.
So.
More than one.
"What interests me is that for a group of people who apparently feel confident in their superiority to the majority of blacks there is a surprising amount of defensiveness and then effort invested in criticism of blacks."
No. Really. Quit diggin'
I'm already seeing commenters on other news sites/ blogs asking what these white people did to him to provoke him.
The question of provocation is one I was raising, however obliquely, in my post at 3:30 re Louis Farrakhan's incendiary statements about killing white people.
Original Mike said...
Someday, you're going to be one of these guys we see on the news.
Nobel Prize winners? Heros on trains? Not sure what you are referring to here.
In other words: perhaps we need a national dialogue on the rhetoric of violence employed by black leaders such as Louis Farrakhan and the role it is playing in black-on-white crime in particular and black criminality overall.
ARM's blunder is right up there in the Althouse Hall of Infamy with garage's Bush/Gore eco-house confusion and Freder's not understanding what happens to the waste heat of a lightbulb.
Don't address the issues so that fewer blacks are killed. Demand equality!! Kill more whites!!
Original Mike said...
ARM's blunder
Keep trying, you will convince yourself at some point.
Shall we have a vote whether or not ARM stepped in? Everybody saw it, man.
Garage, to his credit, fell on his sword. Freder? Not so much.
"First off, Chile is not in Europe. Secondly, I don't consider 25% higher (than Finland--2.0 per 100,000) "modestly higher"."
Your judgment is faulty, then, Freder. The number is so small (2.5 vs 2.0 per 100,000) as to be without meaning. Or perhaps you believe that Finland's murder rate, at 2.0 per 100,000, makes Finland a murder-hole when compared to the 1.7 per 100,000 stats of Greece and Belgium?
Original Mike said...
Shall we have a vote
So now you concede that you are so insecure in your own opinion that you need others to back you up. That's weak, man.
Black lives matter. Sort of
"Irrelevant to the point at hand."
Not so. The statement was that Ramos was "a Mexican citizen." That is true.
Freder I don't acknowledge as it is dangerous to anyone's IQ to engage him.
So he's black and he's gay. What shall we say about him that pegs all blacks and gays as complicit? If we're pulling a play out of the lefties playbook.
Never let a crisis go to waste.
One problem with the discussion of violent crime in the US is that we are a very diverse society. Europe is going to become so as 100,000 Muslim immigrants spread through Europe in the next year. Another confounding fact is that Hispanics, particularly Mexicans, are counted as "white" while they have a higher crime rate than European whites.
This is an interesting site on this question.
The population of non-Hispanic whites for 2010 was 196.8 million. Applying the 2989 murders to this population gives a murder rate of 1.52 per 100,000 population. We cannot get a more precise figure unless we have more demographic data than that given. Asian-Americans, for example, have historically had very low murder rates, but we do not have the data. The 1.52 per 100,000 murder rate is right in the middle of the murder rate of developed European countries. Add the Black and Hispanic numbers back into the mix and apply to the entire United States population, and the murder rate goes up to 4.8 per 100,000. Guns or gun control simply do not correlate to higher murder rates, particularly when you consider that non-Hispanic Whites own guns at much higher rates than do Blacks or Hispanics in the United States.
There are huge numbers of German-Americans, English-Americans, Greek-Americans, Italian-Americans, Scandinavian and Swiss-Americans in the United States. There are no statistically significant numbers of African-American or Hispanic-Americans in Europe.
jaydub: "I don't have a dog in this particular hunt, but has anyone on any blog ever picked a more unsuited avatar or blog name than "A Reasonable Man.?"
No one on any blog has ever picked a more unsuited avatar or blog name than ARMeltdown.
However, in terms of nation-states, the "Democratic Peoples Republic of Korea" comes close.
I kid ARM, and for good reason.
However, if you pay close attention ARM will surprise you in unexpected ways in terms of education, immigration policies, etc.
His performance on this thread is not an example of that.
Michael K,
"Not so. The statement was that Ramos was "a Mexican citizen." That is true."
You're taking it out of context. Go back and read what he wrote. Better yet, I'll quote it for you here: "We could learn a lesson from such wise people. Mexico, for instance, does not allow non-Mexicans to have any say in political affairs. It is illegal, per the Mexican constitution, for a non-Mexican to attempt to influence a politician through the press - and yet here we have Americans acting shocked and outraged that Trump didn't cower to a Mexican citizen attempting to influence American policy to be more favorable to Mexicans! What arrogance."
Jorge Ramos is a US citizen (I'm told he was naturalized in 2008). He may also be a Mexican citizen, but that would have no relevance to the point Alexander was making (or trying to make).
If Obama had a son...(or Holder). The racial healing is really going well!
"His performance on this thread is not an example of that."
I agree. He seems to have a hangup here. Maybe he's black.
Bobby, asked and answered.
UPDATE 2: The murderer has died.
It may be small of me, but I hope he was in severe pain when he died.
Another confounding fact is that Hispanics, particularly Mexicans, are counted as "white" while they have a higher crime rate than European whites.
No they are not. You are either ignorant or lying. Either way, STFU.
The on-air name he chose for himself is very similar to Brian Williams.
I bet he took some razing about it.
Freder I don't acknowledge as it is dangerous to anyone's IQ to engage him.
Don't engage me, engage the statistics cited.
Holding dual citizenship is a form of bad faith.
In the oath of citizenship the oath taker swears that he/she will "renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen."
Becoming a naturalized citizen of the United States while remaining a citizen of Mexico, or any other country, shows a lack of commitment, and loyalty. I say again, it is a form of bad faith.
There are no statistically significant numbers of African-American or Hispanic-Americans in Europe.
So for some reason, when Spanish people immigrate to Central and South America, and perhaps become tainted with a little native (or far less frequently, African) blood, they become violent criminals.
Michael K,
Oh, make no mistake, I don't expect you to acknowledge that you misread the discussion (perhaps you never even read Alexander's original comment) any more than I expect Alexander to admit that he didn't realize Jorge Ramos had become a US citizen (which only happened seven years ago) any more than I expect ARM to acknowledge that he guessed wrongly that the Virginia shooting was white-on-white (which was, statistically, the sound bet to make if he knew the victims were white). Commenters on this blog almost never acknowledge when they get something wrong, which tells me how lucky I am to serve a country with so many perfect people.
" Something you should be able to comprehend!"
Your exaggeration is not convincing.
This is an interesting site on this question.
Uh, except the idiot in the linked article equated "12,996 murder victims in 2010 for which supplemental data were received" with the actual number of murders in the U.S., which was significantly higher.
Roughcoat,
"Holding dual citizenship is a form of bad faith."
However, true or false that might be philosophically (and I don't necessarily disagree with you as a philosophical matter - it doesn't feel right to me, either), as a legal matter, the Supreme Court sanctioned dual citizenship in Afroyim v. Rusk (1967) so it's the law of the land.
Holding dual citizenship is a violation of the sacred oath one has taken to become an American. I know it's not a violation of any law. It's worse than that. Where I come from and in the culture I was raised, breaking one's solemn oath is one of the worst things a man can do. If you can't trust a man to hold true to his word you can't trust for anything.
The 1.52 per 100,000 murder rate is right in the middle of the murder rate of developed European countries.
And of course this is a bald faced lie too. Look at the linked article, 1.52 is near the top of developed European countries (most are around 1)
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