Althouse: The design defect of a stretch limousine....

July 24, 2015

The design defect of a stretch limousine....

... vividly illustrated:

25 comments:

Michael K said...: Doesn't everybody know those are for big cities like LA and NYC where the trains go over the road ?; 7/24/15, 7:03 AM
Unknown said...: Maybe they should have gone half a mile up the tracks and started waving there. Its a real lesson in how long it takes to stop a train even in an emergency.; 7/24/15, 7:16 AM
Rob said...: Impressive structural integrity of the limo.; 7/24/15, 7:20 AM
Vet66 said...: Looks like a loaded train, approximately 8000 tons with 10,000 HP (1.5 tons per operative brake) going Maximum Authorized Speed which would be 50-60 mph coming around a curve. Train went into emergency as soon as the crew saw the limo high-centered on the crossing. Whistle was blowing for the crossing then changed to repeated blasts to get people off the right-of-way as the screech of brakes in emergency application went by the photographer. Usually stopping distance for that terrain would be about 4,000 feet. Seen it too many times from farm tractors, limos, trucks, vehicles, pedestrians, vehicles with passengers and without. We never get used to it. Anyone inside the vehicle getting struck by that train would be deceased. Anyone with a road flare should have headed for the curve walking outside the tracks (not between the rails) back-and-forth which is a stop signal. I was a Trainmaster, Conductor, Engineer on a western railroad inside the locomotive and on the ground investigating the aftermath. Take trains seriously. Hope the crew was uninjured physically and emotionally. The experience takes a toll on everyone involved.; 7/24/15, 7:33 AM
Bill R said...: That's going to be a ride at Six Flags; 7/24/15, 7:35 AM
MisterBuddwing said...: And the limo driver actually says to the engineer, "Did you see me?" Well, yes...; 7/24/15, 7:59 AM
MadisonMan said...: The conductor (what a nightmare for him! Glad no one was injured!) said in the video he was hauling 10K tons.

I wonder if someone could have survived that -- I'd say yes, given that there was nothing for the car to hit.; 7/24/15, 8:01 AM
MisterBuddwing said...: Anyone with a road flare should have headed for the curve walking outside the tracks (not between the rails) back-and-forth which is a stop signal.

I am extremely impressed with your experience and expertise. I thought that to signal a train to stop would involve waving the flare (or lamp or flag) in a horizontal manner.; 7/24/15, 8:16 AM
Ignorance is Bliss said...: MadisonMan said...

I wonder if someone could have survived that --

Yes. The train conductor.; 7/24/15, 8:20 AM
Irish said...: Don't try that with a pick-up truck

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/killed-wreck-long-island-bachelorette-party-article-1.2296757; 7/24/15, 8:20 AM
Larry J said...: In my over 40 years of driving experience, I've consistently applied a rule that has served me well: Always yield to the vehicle with the greater kinetic energy. Trucks trump cars and trains trump everything on land. Even under the best of conditions, it takes a long time to stop a train. When it comes to collisions, trains win every time.; 7/24/15, 8:29 AM
Anonymous said...: Pop worked 40 years on the WP. Mostly in car repair and ended up as the car Super in Sacramento. Early in his career, he used to have to go uphill from Oroville into the Feather River Canyon to work derailments.

An interesting engineering operation, that his son, an Army Tanker, can appreciate (e.g. heavy equipment recovery).

Anyway, the issue on derailments is that there are no roads, so you end up tackling the derailment by removing all the cars still on the tracks from each end, then running car mounted heavy cranes in from both ends.

course in those days, some empty broken cars could just be slid into the gorge...

Most interesting wrecked car I ever saw was a tanker carrying molten wax. Thing turned into stalagmites and stalactites. All in yellow wax...

Most important thing about the scene in question is to make sure everybody is uptrain from the impact site. e.g/ like the guy in the frame. Downtrain, you could be hit by impact debris.; 7/24/15, 8:45 AM
Rusty said...: The train nearly always wins.; 7/24/15, 9:01 AM
Michael K said...: "When it comes to collisions, trains win every time."

Back in 1986 when I was still doing trauma surgery, I had a guy come in who was walking on the tracks on Memorial Day listening to his Sony Walkman when the train came through at about 50. I guess he thought the trains took the day off. It was a glancing blow, I guess, as his buddy didn't make it in. Anyway, after 60 units of blood and taking 2/3 of his liver, we got him through it OK. Of course, he was an illegal so I never got paid for my time. At least it was day time.

To survive a train, it helps to be illegal. Just like winning the lottery California.; 7/24/15, 9:38 AM
rhhardin said...: The horn is important in stopping the train. It sounds like a Nathan 5-chime.

The boy scout rule is run down the tracks a mile or so with your red flag, don't stand at the obstacle.; 7/24/15, 10:27 AM
rhhardin said...: I was on a PA RR train in Delaware where the GG-1 locomotive clipped the back of a parked car. The chief effect was a delay while they inspected the bent GG-1 and then proceeded on to DC.; 7/24/15, 10:31 AM
rhhardin said...: One of Obama's motorcade limos got hung up on a driveway on some foreign trip, which also is somewhere on youtube.

I've seen flatbed trucks hauling heavy equipment get hung up an ordinary intersections on an incline, as well. The road crossing the incline is level, which makes it appear as a bump on the road going up the incline.; 7/24/15, 10:52 AM
Big Mike said...: My thoughts:

On the video some idiot asks the locomotive engineer didn't he see them waving. The engineer replies that he's hauling 10,000 tons. Hey, folks! Even a small (less than one ton) car takes 120 feet to stop, and that's with rubber touching asphalt, not steel on top of steel.

Glad that the locomotive engineer wasn't injured. If there's damage to the locomotive I imagine that Norfolk Southern has a good case for suing the limo company for the repairs.

According to an online brochure published by the Burlington Northern Santa Fe (three fine old railroad names wrapped up in a single modern conglomerate) the crossing signal that the limo takes out is paid for by a mix of federal, state, and local funds (90% federal) and maintained by the individual railroad. I don't know whether "maintenance" includes replacement when a signal is wiped out by an accident, but if so then I think that the Norfolk Southern has a case for recovering that from the limo company as well.

And that's because the limo driver should have been able to look at that crossing and realize the car couldn't get over it safely.; 7/24/15, 10:56 AM
rhhardin said...: I'd guess that the RR has to make the tracks crossable, as far as the law goes.; 7/24/15, 10:59 AM
rhhardin said...: The weight of the train doesn't matter - the weight cancels out. Only the coefficient of friction matters. Steel on steel isn't particulary grabby.; 7/24/15, 11:32 AM
Vet66 said...: Mr. Budwing; Let's not get too technical. Flares are dangerously hot and smoky. Anything waved next to the tracks is signal to stop. Rapid horizontal movement of the flare in front of you means "emergency application of the brakes" which can cause a derailment especially on a curve. A slow back-and-forth movement of the flare in front of you is safe for the novice and less likely to start a brush fire along the right-of-way from burning slag off the fusee. Absent flares/fusee waving ones arms like you are trying to fly works well also.; 7/24/15, 3:00 PM
JAORE said...: "I wonder if someone could have survived that -- I'd say yes, given that there was nothing for the car to hit."

The issue is the rapid acceleration in this case. The limo and the theoretical occupant would accelerate to (essentially) the train's speed on impact withing the limits of the crush zone of the limo. Based on the limo in the video (as said, pretty impressive integrity) it was a short, short span.

Going from zero to (say) 50 mph in 1/2 foot will ruin your day.; 7/24/15, 3:48 PM
The Godfather said...: The news report I heard this morning said that everyone got out of the limo before it was hit by the train. I hope that was true, because I can't see any way that anyone could have survived in that limo.

Arnold S. did a movie some years ago in which the bad guys were left stuck on the tracks in the path of an oncoming freight train. They were not supposed to have survived.

I was on an Amtrak train several years ago that hit a pick-up truck that tried to cross the tracks while the barriers were down. Those of us on the train hardly felt a thing. The truck driver was killed instantly.; 7/24/15, 5:17 PM
Freeman Hunt said...: Poor train driver.; 7/24/15, 5:53 PM
CatherineM said...: Irish - I thought the same thing. Here is what they are saying about the strength of Limos. http://7online.com/news/investigation-into-safety-of-stretch-limousines/878763/

I wonder what the car looked like after removal from the train.

In the tragedy on LI last weekend (I have done the wine country tour via Limo for bachelorette parties too), they are blaming the truck driver, but I think the limo was making a u-turn he did not have the time and space for in a 55mile stretch of country road. Eyewitnesses blame limo. The county has already admitted the truck driver wasn't drunk, but are now saying "impaired," because prosecutors have a hard time admitting they are wrong. At least they reduced bail from $1million to $50k. In the meantime 4 young women dead, 2 seriously hurt including the truck driver.; 7/24/15, 7:08 PM