June 4, 2015

Rick Santorum set a good example for conservatives.

In his reaction to the Bruce-to-Caitlin Jenner matter:
"If he says he’s a woman, then he’s a woman. My responsibility as a human being is to love and accept everybody. Not to criticize people for who they are. I can criticize, and I do, for what people do, for their behavior. But as far as for who they are, you have to respect everybody, and these are obviously complex issues for businesses, for society, and I think we have to look at it in a way that is compassionate and respectful of everybody."
Previously blogged on May 2d, here.

63 comments:

Paco Wové said...

You simply cannot get enough of this, can you?

rhhardin said...

I'd suggest indifference, not respect, is the conservative path.

rhhardin said...

People losing their marbles is no reason to lose yours.

rhhardin said...

Why isn't beheading viewed as a sex change.

Michael K said...

"I'd suggest indifference, not respect, is the conservative path."

Benign neglect was the term used by Pat Moynihan and, had it not stirred leftist outrage, might have worked.

Jenner, and all transvestites, have a mental problem. I learned long ago when tiling to psychotics (I don't mean to say he is psychotic) you ignore the "crazy stuff" they say and talk to the sane part and often they will recognize and appreciate that.

Anonymous said...

I know a place where Santorum could meet someone who says he's Napoleon.

Shouting Thomas said...

You are completely possessed by the Devil, professor.

You espouse the values and support an institution (UW) that is now committed to punishing and ridiculing young men for simply being heterosexual, and that promotes and glorifies butt fucking.

Your starting point was the evil of feminism... rebelling against God, as Eve did, out of rage at being female.

You are evil as hell.

Moose said...

...and now for something completely different.Science!

tim in vermont said...

"Well Ollie, this is a fine mess you have gotten us into this time."

On the one hand, since our best understanding of science says that we all start with female brains and us males get our male brains after a good dose of testosterone changes the brain structure, there is a solid argument that Caitlyn was born that way.

On the other hand, there are mentally ill people who seize on delusions as fact and to carry through an irreversible tallywhacking, for want to use that pun, is harmful, often to the point of suicide for the victim of this misjudgment.

Why not just allow Caitlyn to live as she likes, c--*/all her what she wants, and accept that women born in men's bodies are a fact of nature? I am sure she could find a life partner without changing her body. Why do we have to take it to the level of surgery? Of course I think that breast augmentations are stupid too, and sad, but they don't tend to lead to suicide.

So my vote is "Bruce, don't do it." but my libertarian side says, "Whatever dudette."

Oh Yea said...

I think we are all missing the important issue here, so does the professor now think it is OK for Caitlin to wear shorts that Bruce couldn't just by declaring herself a women?

Paul said...

If Jenner calls himself a tree frog then he's a tree frog dammit...The liberals and morally defeated are the only ones celebrating this poor sick individual and those like him...Our culture is fucked...

tim in vermont said...

That's weird, I wonder how a little bit of code got into that comment? There was no code in my paste buffer that I was aware of...

Eric the Fruit Bat said...

Not quite sure how doing that stuff to yourself doesn't count as behavior, but as Treebeard would have said, I am very small.

Self-mutilation probably isn't so bad as self-murder, but I can see where there'd be some good faith difference of opinion on that.

Anyway, I do my level best to think the best of people which is why I take blog posts like this to be self-trolling.

Insofar as Bruce Jenner (or whatever he's called now) is concerned, I say good for him, I hope he's happier than he was before.

What's it to me? It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my arm. Live and let live.

Oh, and Rick Santorum is a full-on imbecile.

NotquiteunBuckley said...

"I learned long ago when tiling to psychotics (I don't mean to say he is psychotic) you ignore the "crazy stuff" they say and talk to the sane part and often they will recognize and appreciate that."

Hmmm... I learned that lesson a long time ago talking to my inner monologue.

Brando said...

I generally like to live by the mantra "who cares?" When Jenner or someone else wants to start controlling what others do, wake me for that.

I don't profess to know enough about transgenderism to know whether it is a mental disorder that can be treated (like depression) or some inborn trait that is best left to its full expression, but I'd like to be respectful to anyone going through that in either case. Live and let live.

NotquiteunBuckley said...

"Langan has also been quoted as saying that "you cannot describe the universe completely with any accuracy unless you're willing to admit that it's both physical and mental in nature"[12] and that the CTMU "explains the connection between mind and reality, therefore the presence of cognition and universe in the same phrase".[13]"

--http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Langan


How do these "physical" and "mental" concepts of the universe apply to Jenner I wonder? Has anyone asked Chris? Why not? Fear of the fallacy of authority? Okay then.

Mark said...

For once, not a douche.

NotquiteunBuckley said...

"Lola walks like a girl and talks like a man."

"Hey babe, take a walk on the wild side."

"Dude looks like a lady."

Do I smell a tort? You pay me $7099 per month for 19 years and I will explain how to confuse correlation (or just bull%^&$) with causation and we all win big time.

J2 said...

Santorum - an elegant comment by a very decent human.

Fernandinande said...

Paul said...
If Jenner calls himself a tree frog then he's a tree frog dammit...


I used to be a tadpole.

Tank said...

"If he says he’s a woman, then he’s a woman.

This is not a good example. This is stupid. We don't need to compliment stupid.


I'm mostly libertarian, so Jenner can live how he wants, play act as woman, call himself whatever, but we should not make believe he is now a woman.

Stupid.

My responsibility as a human being is to love and accept everybody

You can do this without making believe he is a woman.

Anglelyne said...

tim in vermont: On the one hand, since our best understanding of science says that we all start with female brains and us males get our male brains after a good dose of testosterone changes the brain structure, there is a solid argument that Caitlyn was born that way.

I wish people would lay off the science! assertions re this topic. Yes, we know how brains are masculinized and where things can go wrong in this developmental process. That we know that tells us nothing about whether this applies to Jenner's condition. Not picking on you in particular here tim; you do consider another explanation. Just raising an eyebrow at the number of people running around uncritically accepting the rather implausible "born that way" explanation for the kind of transsexualism on display here. Amazing how media pitched at sub-room temperature IQs can make everybody an expert in endocrinology.

Larry J said...

This is one of those topics where I must proclaim, "I don't care and you can't make me."

JAORE said...

I care not a drop for Jenner or the rest of the K clan. They have, somehow, managed to become wealthy from a series of LOOK AT ME! moments. But I don't even have the got-to-look-at-the-train-wreck inclination for Kim and kin.

But I do find it interesting about the good professor's flexibility in language and chiding of the rigid interpreters. I can recall dozens of posts with wording like, "Why do you suppose he chose that word"?" or "This language would convey his meaning better....".

Are there any other topics where such flexibility in language is to be applauded? If there are, I have missed them.

Bobber Fleck said...

Not to criticize people for who they are. I can criticize, and I do, for what people do, for their behavior.

How do you separate "who they are" from their behavior? Isn't it your behavior that defines you?

Another question: Does anyone else find it peculiar (and sad) that some people attempt to define their identity largely in terms of their sexual behavior?

SomeoneHasToSayIt said...

His name is 'Bruce'. He's a man.

Q: If you call a tail a leg, how many legs does a dog have?

A: Four, because calling a tail a leg doesn't mean it is one.

Dave P. said...

I think this is sad. The Kardashian women drained all the testosterone out of Bruce...

NotquiteunBuckley said...

"Another question: Does anyone else find it peculiar (and sad) that some people attempt to define their identity largely in terms of their sexual behavior?"

I thought it was funny when Robert California did it on The Office. The Black List has a woman who looks a little like a man playing a woman playing a man as a (maybe the) mastermind of the show too.

This is a link to Mr. Kaplan.


Michael said...

If bulemics believe themselves to be fat why can't we encourage them to buy extra large dresses and prescribe Ritlin to curb their appetites?

I anticipate that Jenner's de-dicking will be at least five episodes on his "reality" show.

Michael said...

The episode to wait for will be his loss of virginity episode. Looking forward to who his mate will be. Guessing a minimum of four tattoos and maybe, to keep it fun fun fun, one of his ex-wife's former boyfriends. A person of color, surely.

exhelodrvr1 said...

So if he says he's a woman, and tests show that he has testicular cancer, are they supposed to treat it?

EMD said...

I'm pretty much with Brando on this.

"I can criticize, and I do, for what people do, for their behavior."

This is the real substance of the statement.

However, some may call Caitlyn brave, but she's in a place in her life where she can afford it. A lot of people going through gender identity issues don't have the luxury that a Bruce Jenner/Kardashian has to be supported by media and money.



southcentralpa said...

Dunno, it sounds like all the progressives who hail Reagan's support for the EITC while reviling everything else he ever stood for.

Frankly, if you handle gender non-conformity the same way the Iranians do, it may be a sign you're doing it wrong... (the Iranians offer free sex-changes to gay people)

chillblaine said...

I keep wondering if Jenner had his schmekel cored out.

Then I find out Schmekel is an all transgender Jewish folk band. Serendipity.

Gahrie said...

Well I say I say I am a 20 ft tall purple, lesbian dinosaur, and if you disagree you are just a hater.

roar.

Gahrie said...

(the Iranians offer free sex-changes to gay people)

Really?

From what I've seen, they also offer them free, elevator-less express descents from the tops of buildings.

SGT Ted said...

Hey Bruce can do what he wants, but DNA still says "male".

Unless you're a science denier.

I can say that and it isn't bigotry to say it.

See, trans people very well may be mentally ill and in need of treatment, rather than surgery and hormones. This is also in line with what the science says.

That doesn't mean that trans people should be treated poorly.

Trans activists, or anyone else who seeks tell other people what they are and aren't allowed to say about this topic are assholes.

Anonymous said...

"If he says he’s a woman, then he’s a woman.

What if next he says he's a Senator? A President? An Elephant? The Lord God Almighty?

I suspect we all know Santorum's answers to those questions.

What's the difference?

SGT Ted said...

"If he says he’s a woman, then he’s a woman."

No, not really. It's not rude to point out that reality. It's the truth. Sorry if the truth offends you.

Fascists and other totalitarians like to distort language and then enforce the distortion as truth and make others tell the lies out loud, instead of allowing them to tell the truth. Which reveals who the fascists are in this instance.

Sebastian said...

It is not compassionate or respectful to let other human beings suffer in their insanity.

Sex reassignment surgery is a brutal and dehumanizing procedure with dire consequences.

The whole notion that "if p says he is q then he is q" is itself a form of madness. Even in these postmodern times, reality is not just a social, let alone an individual, construction.

southcentralpa said...

@Gahrie

http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-29832690 Think of it as a carrot-and-stick kind of deal (no pun intended)

(And just as an FYI, "off the tops of buildings" is more a Daesh thing. The Iranians typically hang them off cranes (dunno if they drop them so they break their neck and die right away, or they just hoist them up so they choke horribly, but there are probably videos on YouTube if you're morbidly curious.)

SGT Ted said...

It totalitarian societies, they make it hard to say the truth out loud, because the totalitarians use the group to verbally attack you in order to shame you back into silent compliance with their lies.

This is what is going on with the LGBT activists and their policing of speech in regards to men and women claiming they are the opposite sex in opposition to biological science and the reality that biologically, there is no such thing as a sex change in humans. Surgery and hormone injections do not change that biological reality one bit.

The LGBT activists have become totalitarians instead of justice seekers.

Ann Althouse appears to be on board with this in her saying that Santorum speaking the lie, instead of telling the truth, about men being women if they simply declare, it is a good example for others to follow. She may mean that Government should stay out of it, which I agree with, but I am not sure.

It isn't "hate" to point this out.

sean said...

And if my anorexic daughter says she's fat, then she's fat. Who am I to make a judgment about what body shape is right?

Joshua Barker said...

I couldn't care less if Bruce Jenner becomes a "woman". I think its sad and I pity him, but what REALLY grinds my gears is the INCESSANT trumpeting from the rooftops about his "courage" and 24/7 media coverage where he is held up as some icon to be adored and admired. Him and the entire Kardashian family are loony tunes. They represent the core of what is wrong in Hollywood and America. If you want to cut your dick off and get fake boobs and think that somehow magically makes you a woman, then go right ahead and mutilate the shit out of yourself... but don't expect me to applaud you for it, you fuck-nut.

Anthony said...

>>And if my anorexic daughter says she's fat, then she's fat. Who am I to make a judgment about what body shape is right?

Bingo.

tim in vermont said...

Well I say I say I am a 20 ft tall purple, lesbian dinosaur, and if you disagree you are just a hater.

Well I do hate purple dinosaurs, but I think that is pretty universal.

Owen said...

I think the best answer that anyone can give is...

Ready?

YAWN.

Whatever, Caitlyn. Be your true self. Just don't ask me to watch, applaud, or pay.

n.n said...

Principled tolerance, not selective exclusion. Unfortunately, pro-choice doctrine favors the latter.

Fernandinande said...

SGT Ted said...
I[n] totalitarian societies, they make it hard to say the truth out loud, because the totalitarians use the group to verbally attack you in order to shame you back into silent compliance with their lies.



Theodore Dalrymple: "Political correctness is communist propaganda writ small. In my study of communist societies, I came to the conclusion that the purpose of communist propaganda was not to persuade or convince, nor to inform, but to humiliate; and therefore, the less it corresponded to reality the better. When people are forced to remain silent when they are being told the most obvious lies, or even worse when they are forced to repeat the lies themselves, they lose once and for all their sense of probity. To assent to obvious lies is to co-operate with evil, and in some small way to become evil oneself. One’s standing to resist anything is thus eroded, and even destroyed. A society of emasculated liars is easy to control. I think if you examine political correctness, it has the same effect and is intended to."

HoodlumDoodlum said...

Ooh, it just occurred to me, but was Miss Jenner's lil' car accident just another funny example of bad driving by a woman (as used to be seen in cartoons from the '60s) instead of, you know, vehicular homicide? I mean, it's amusing now that she's a she, right? Probably too distracted doin' her makeup to keep her eyes on the road. Lady drivers, am I right guys?

EMD said...

(the Iranians offer free sex-changes to gay people)

That's so they no longer have gay people.

Lydia said...

The Iranian approach: 'You need to either have your gender changed or we will kill you'

HoodlumDoodlum said...

Ann Althouse said... a good example for conservatives

and I think we have to look at it in a way that is compassionate and respectful of everybody

Just for conservatives, huh? Not too much "looking at it in a way that is compassionate" when it comes to, say, business owners who have personal or religious beliefs? Maybe compassion only flows one way, I dunno.

Patrick Henry said...

Clearly Santorum doesn't pay attention to Instapundit...

From http://www.wsj.com/articles/paul-mchugh-transgender-surgery-isnt-the-solution-1402615120 (warning, you need to use paywall subterfuge to get to the whole article):

We at Johns Hopkins University—which in the 1960s was the first American medical center to venture into “sex-reassignment surgery”—launched a study in the 1970s comparing the outcomes of transgendered people who had the surgery with the outcomes of those who did not. Most of the surgically treated patients described themselves as “satisfied” by the results, but their subsequent psycho-social adjustments were no better than those who didn’t have the surgery. And so at Hopkins we stopped doing sex-reassignment surgery, since producing a “satisfied” but still troubled patient seemed an inadequate reason for surgically amputating normal organs.

It now appears that our long-ago decision was a wise one. A 2011 study at the Karolinska Institute in Sweden produced the most illuminating results yet regarding the transgendered, evidence that should give advocates pause. The long-term study—up to 30 years—followed 324 people who had sex-reassignment surgery. The study revealed that beginning about 10 years after having the surgery, the transgendered began to experience increasing mental difficulties. Most shockingly, their suicide mortality rose almost 20-fold above the comparable nontransgender population. This disturbing result has as yet no explanation but probably reflects the growing sense of isolation reported by the aging transgendered after surgery. The high suicide rate certainly challenges the surgery prescription.


and...

At the heart of the problem is confusion over the nature of the transgendered. “Sex change” is biologically impossible. People who undergo sex-reassignment surgery do not change from men to women or vice versa. Rather, they become feminized men or masculinized women. Claiming that this is civil-rights matter and encouraging surgical intervention is in reality to collaborate with and promote a mental disorder.

Scott said...

"If he says he’s a woman, then he’s a woman."

In Santorum's heart of hearts, do you think he really believes that? I don't. And so we have another candidate who will say any damn thing to get elected.

Alexander said...

Critical race theory, feminism, 'privilege'... none of these can rationally (key word there) co-exist with trans-whatever.

Of course, when your goal is just to pile one more lie on to brake the cis-camel's back... then that's not really a problem.

Alexander said...

Just FYI, I identify as the eldest son of Queen Elizabeth II. Anyone who opposes my claim and by-the-by any sort of inheritance this position bestows upon me is just a hateful cis-genetic bigot who ought to be pilloried out of society.

I'm also trans-black. So go ahead and out yourselves as pathetic racists while you're at it.

The Godfather said...

First, Althouse, you know as well as I do that holding up Rick Santorum as a role model for "conservatives" has to be BS. No matter what he says about whatever.

Second, the real answer to any question like this is: I have no comment. I'm running for President of the United States. Sex changes are no business of the President. Ask me about taxes, Obamacare, ISIS, or any other relevant subject, and I'll answer.

BTW, don't ask me whether I wear boxers or briefs.

(On the other hand, if I go commando that might be relevant.)

RecChief said...

except those of us who aren't running for office aren't allowed to express that sentiment. We have be on board, with gusto.

Jason said...


"Jenner? Bitch, please." -Wendy Carlos

jr565 said...

Althouse, did you ever watch Lars and the Real Girl?
There, Lars has a traumatic experience and decides to start dating a fuck doll. And he starts taking the doll around as if she's his actual girl friend.The town folk ultimately go along with the pretense since they like Lars and that seems to make him happy.
But do you think any of them start thinking she's a real girl?
Would Rick Santorum say "hey, if he says she's a real girl, then she's a real girl". if he said that do you think he really thinks wishes override the fact that she's made out of plastic?
Is this Pinnochio? If you wish it enough a puppet can turn into a real boy? Maybe in a Disney movie, but in real life a puppet is a puppet.
If you were walking around with a doll that you said was your kid, I might not tell you to your face that your doll isn't real, since you would be dealing with a delusion, obviously and I wouldn't want you to attack me, or kill yourself. But I wouldn't accept the reality that, yes, in fact, the doll is real.

!

jr565 said...

If someone with anorexia is wasting away does Rick Santorum say "Hey, if she says she's fat then she's fat? My responsibility as a human being is to love and accept everybody. Not to criticize people for who they are."
Who she is a dangerously skinny person suffering from a delusion that she is obese and needs to lose weight.
Lets give her diet pills. She says she's fat.

Michael The Magnificent said...

Deep down, inside my soul, I know that in a former life I was Shirley MacLaine.

Laugh all you want, haters, but it's true! I feel, therefore I am.