Here's the raw material. Judge for yourself:
Hillary did say "Laws have to be backed up with resources and political will. And deep-seated cultural codes, religious beliefs and structural biases have to be changed. As I have said and as I believe, the advancement of the full participation of women and girls in every aspect of their societies is the great unfinished business of the 21st century and not just for women but for everyone — and not just in far away countries but right here in the United States."
Now, it does sound off to say "religious beliefs... have to be changed." You'd think the speech-writers would have tweaked that into something less easily extracted and denounced. And yet... perhaps it's a trap. Come on, you Hillary haters. Flay her for saying "religious beliefs... have to be changed." Commit. Then she can come back and destroy you. She can tell you about the war against Islamic extremists who have religious beliefs that have to be changed. They're cutting people's heads off for not converting. They are raping and enslaving women. They are throwing gay people off tall buildings. Gotcha!
Of course, there are religious beliefs that need to be changed! That's not even controversial. The question is how to change them — when to use military force, when to use the force of legal sanctions, and when to use speech to persuade people to believe ideas because they are better.
The equality of women — feminism is the radical notion that women are people — is a strong, persuasive idea that is at odds with what many believe as a matter of religion. Hillary Clinton is on solid ground when she says religious beliefs have to be changed, and I assume she means that they can be changed through persuasive speech and appeals to reason and moral sensibility.
If you think she's vulnerable to attack, go ahead and attack. I'll spectate from this overlook.
Posts
124 comments:
She has said more than once that The Bible is her most important influence.
Now she can tell us how she plans to amend it.
The question is how to change them — when to use military force, when to use the force of legal sanctions, and when to use speech to persuade people to believe ideas because they are better.
Do I need to quote Napier again?
"Be it so. This burning of widows is your custom; prepare the funeral pile. But my nation has also a custom. When men burn women alive we hang them, and confiscate all their property. My carpenters shall therefore erect gibbets on which to hang all concerned when the widow is consumed. Let us all act according to national customs."
Sorry I can't stand to listen to 2 minutes of Hillary, much less 23 minutes.
Ms. Hillary apparently now agrees with Ann Coulter's 2001 statement:
"we should invade their countries, kill their leaders and convert them to Christianity."
The religious urge to deem life sacred and worth protecting is rather different from the belief that God wants murder, torture, and rape used as tools in His battles.
She and her pals on the left can dance with this one too.
Fashion is more important than women's rights.
Women are one of two kinds of people, separated by strength and interests.
One of their interests is nagging.
I forget which one has the extra rib.
The views of Hillary and progressives in general sound a lot more like the ancient Greco-Roman views from an article Insty linked yesterday than anything modern sounding:
http://theweek.com/articles/551027/how-christianity-invented-children
As I have said and as I believe, the advancement of the full participation of women and girls in every aspect of their societies is the great unfinished business of the 21st century and not just for women but for everyone...
Just imagine any American leader in the 20th century myopically focussing on this aspect and this aspect alone. It is similar to Barack Obama's obsession with race at the expense of every other aspect of American interest.
I suggest we jettison these so-called leaders who focus solely on narrow issues (or even issues which clearly benefit only 50% of a population) and rededicate ourselves to an even greater good.
Oh and how does aborting the female unborn advance women's causes?
"One of their interests is nagging," nags rh.
We still need the press to prize open the Hillary/Huma special relationship in the interest of knowing who the next Karl Rove or Valeria Jarrett is. Are there no sawyers or lawyers up to the task?
The "deep-seated religious belief" against abortion is that its murder.
Good luck changing that moral value.
She reminds me of the NICE faculty in "That Hideous Stength". Dressing up nonsense in $10 words.
I don't get that gotcha. Makes my head hurt...
kzookitty
She wants the religious left to commit to late term abortion.
The rest is just noise.
Listen to Hillary talk for more than a minute? No thanks.
I will assume she took no questions. Wouldn't want to engage in a conversation at this time.
I will assume she took no questions. Wouldn't want to engage in a conversation at this time
I wonder if she'll take questions in the debate?
I don't mind that the dems are a bunch of atheists. But be honest about your ideology.
feminism is the radical notion that women are people
Bullshit.
Femisism is about expressing power over men, especially White heterosexual men.
"the advancement of the full participation of women and girls in every aspect of their societies is the great unfinished business"
Good luck with that too. The women our colleges are creating today can't handle an opposing pov without trigger warnings and safe spaces. I don't think they are going to get very far.
"feminism is the radical notion that women are people babies are not people"
/fixed
I'll consider feminists as something more than sub-human when they return the favor.
I live in a town that is 70% leftist. They attend church.
The local episcopalian church is filled with leftists.
The idea that only people on the right are religious is a cultural myth.
I wonder why the religious left are never placed under the microscope about their opinions on abortion?
Athouse wrote If you think she's vulnerable to attack, go ahead and attack. I'll spectate from this overlook.
Bull Run is called Manassas by others. In the Althouse mind they are the same.
Whoa whoa whoa. Religious beliefs "have" to be changed? What? No one has the right or responsibility or authority to declare that someone else's belief "has"to be changed.
Deal with actions, if you must, but MYOB about beliefs. Even ones you find vile.
She is technically correct for the wrong reason. Religion does change as the culture changes, naturally and with society. Look at Catholicism and Papal edits and liturgy and dispensations, even worship across all other churches.
Faith does not change. It is grounded in scripture, be it the Bible or even the Koran along with accompanying morality. Even Hillary can't change the most important part of Christianity, the resurrection of Christ and redemption available.
She is wrong to believe that religion is faith and it is the responsibility of (us, her, the state-pick one) to change bedrock.
Religion is man trying to make himself presentable to God. Doesn't work that way.
Being against abortion and against the beheaders are consistent, logical positions.
Those who are pro-abortion and multicultist beheader apologists are the inconsistent illogical screwballs.
You couldn't pay me enough to watch 23 minutes of that woman. I did not have video relations with that woman.
I'll watch it if AA eats an egg salad sandwich, and videos herself doing it. Egg salad goes well with a nice Pinot Grigio.
As writer and editor Marie Shear famously wrote in 1986, "Feminism is the radical notion that women are people." In other words, feminism is a commitment to achieving the equality of the sexes.
http://www.redletterpress.org/feminism101.html
This is about the dumbest thing I've ever read. If women aren't people, what are they? Furniture? Draft animals?
Equal means "the same". Men and women are not the same.
Ladies, if you want respect, stop talking in idiotic cliches.
Ann's right.
Talking about abortion is a loser for Republicans.
Changing the subject away from Hillary's corrupt financial dealings, including taking money from regimes oppressive to women, is an unforced error.
"One of their interests is nagging," nags rh.
Nagging is essential to women, though.
It sends men on a quest. This tests whether the man is a good mate.
What nagging lacks is telling the guy that she's satisfied with him afterwards.
You can't do this last step if you address men in general. That's feminism's failing.
And you don't do it if you're just a nag, which can happen in individual cases. That's a personal failing.
Hillary wants to be god. Your god. Will you join her? Free soft squishy state-hugs and purple space.
Bill of rights:
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;"
Hillary:
"religious beliefs and structural biases have to be changed"
Looks like a slam-dunk to me.
Here's a pic of Hillarity having a temporal lobe epileptic seizure.
We know, rh. You've nagged us about it for years.
"The idea that only people on the right are religious is a cultural myth."
Actually leftism is a religion.
Think about it. It has all the elements.
Blind faith. Deviation. Heretics. A clergy, or as some of us refer to them "clerisy."
http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2014/06/16/hillary-clinton-the-bible-is-my-biggest-influence/
Wasn't George Bush a dumbass God head because Jesus was his most influential philosopher?
@Donald
Who, whom.
Feminism
Famicism
Famcism
Fascism
We know, rh. You've nagged us about it for years.
Is it true but you don't want to hear it as part of an analysis, or something else?
Why would men be less inclined to nag?
Maybe if you abstract problems down to a single thing, you're more inclined to fix it yourself; where if you think in complexities, you need somebody else to do stuff.
When Hillary says "religious beliefs have to be changed" she is speaking of the traditions, dogmas and doctrines of worldwide Islam and Catholicism, the biggest religious forces of the geopolitical world.
This is quite a statement by the woman who seeks the mantle of leadership of left wing humanism. Or call it secular modernism: the movement that has advanced with religious zeal since the early days of those awestruck supporters of Barack "The One" Obama.
Nagging is essential to women, though.
Is it genetic or cultural?
If this was the Amazon Greek Island of Themyscira, ruled by Wonder Woman and the Amazons, would women be nags?
Ted Cruz has it right: what Hillary is really saying is that religious beliefs have to be changed so that a woman and some doctor can terminate a health 7-pound baby a week before its due date for reasons of convenience without consequence. If that's what she means she should say so. (Cruz is not my choice at this point, but when he's right he's right.)
I'm sure she was thinking of Islam when she made that comment and not Chrisianity. Yeah, sure. The leftists are always on the attack against Muslims, not Christians...
If this was the Amazon Greek Island of Themyscira, ruled by Wonder Woman and the Amazons, would women be nags?
They'd be nags culturally as well. Women in general are nags only genetically.
Culturally they may refrain. Those get long marriages.
Refrain means not that you don't ask your man for stuff, but that you show him you're satisfied with him as well.
Nag is the omission of the latter.
You certainly bend and twist to astonishing degrees when you struggle to pick apart words and sentences to find a defense of librul doctrines.
"Hillary did say "Laws have to be backed up with resources and political will. And deep-seated cultural codes, religious beliefs and structural biases have to be changed."
OK, let's begin with changing the cultural codes of faux Methodists like Hillary!
"Of course, there are religious beliefs that need to be changed!"
If the equality of women is the standard to be met, Islamic beliefs can only be changed by being eliminated.
"The equality of women — feminism is the radical notion that women are people — is a strong, persuasive idea that is at odds with what many believe as a matter of religion"
I'm not a Christian, but the "radical notion" that women are people is deeply embedded in Christianity.
"(Cruz is not my choice at this point, but when he's right he's right.)"
It was Rand Paul who made the reply about aborting a 7 pound baby so you're still right.
"persuasive idea that is at odds with what many believe as a matter of religion"
Missed this bit of propaganda. We usually win points for spotting it in MSM newspapers:
"there is a growing perception"
By whom? Oh I see, no one. You just want to buttress your strawman up with "some people say".
Our national yenta.
And deep-seated cultural codes, religious beliefs and structural biases have to be changed
The left likes to call them "clumps of cells" because they don't want to apply any humanity to the life growing inside the mother. Kinda like how racists apply words like, nigger, kike, spic, gook, etc.
Althouse: If you think she's vulnerable to attack, go ahead and attack. I'll spectate from this overlook.
Ya know, there's Cruel Neutrality, and then there is Intellectual Cowardice.
Normalizing the murder of children is very substantial issue.
But lets not weigh in on something as meaty as that. Instead, lets take the perspective that "getting the GOP to talk about abortion" is a very savy political trick.
Maybe its not cowardice, maybe its the realization that her support for abortion would not withstand scrutiny from a moral and logical pov.
"I'm not defending it because I know I can't, and I don't want to face myself in the mirror afterwards"
The left likes to call them "clumps of cells" because they don't want to apply any humanity to the life growing inside the mother.
Yup. They deem them subhuman to excuse doing inhumane things to them. Same way they deemed Native Americans (genocide) and Africans (slavery).
Of course, there are religious beliefs that need to be changed! That's not even controversial.
You're inciting apostasy. And as we learn from "Vikings":
"I will tell you this: one day, you will be caught. We will catch you and crucify you - for an apostate is the lowest and the vilest of all creatures in the eyes of God!"
Bishop Swithern [to Athelstan]
The only honorable way to "change" a sincerely held religious belief is to kill the holder. All religions know this, that is why they honor martyrs.
"Yup. They deem them subhuman to excuse doing inhumane things to them. Same way they deemed Native Americans (genocide) and Africans (slavery)."
The left deemed Native Americans and Africans clumps of cells? News to me.
Feminism is the radical notion that women are a self-pitying trope.
"The only honorable way to "change" a sincerely held religious belief is to kill the holder."
Don't you have that upside down? Shouldn't it be: the only honorable religious "believer" is one who is willing to die for his belief?
You might want to look up what happened to many of those spectators who got close at the first battle of Bull Run, Professor.
Hint.
Showing mercy to babies is totally normal among humans. It takes a Progressive Murder Cult Religion to make former humans into mind controlled ideologues that become gleeful about success in organized killing of babies.
Mrs Clinton may want to change religious beliefs everywhere! but she also knows that her best chance to do so is in this country where her brand of Left has already made inroads where its political purposes coincide or seem to coincide with what many Christians see as their social/civic responsibilities. As some of the more perspicacious Catholic observers noted yesterday, Mrs Clinton means us, as well as the Orthodox, Evangelical and other faithful who won't repudiate the traditional Christian beliefs about abortion, family, same sex acts etc etc. Mrs Clinton cloaking her noxious politics in pro-civil rights rhetoric may fool some people, sure.
Fen: "They deem them subhuman to excuse doing inhumane things to them. Same way they deemed Native Americans (genocide) and Africans (slavery)."
Meade: The left deemed Native Americans and Africans clumps of cells? News to me.
Subhuman. I said they deemed them Subhuman.
I mean geez, its right there in my quote. Maybe if I bolded it for you:
They deem them subhuman
See were I said subhuman? Right there.
I gotta say, if you plan on White Knighting for Althouse over abortion, you should do her a favor and get off her team.
What an ugly American. I thought all cultures are equal; we are no better or worse than any other culture; and we aren't supposed to tell others what to do? She should really butt out. Did she donate her fee?
Females are such special snowflakes now they can't handle the bigger world. How can they raise children? Women need to be protected.
They'd be nags culturally as well. Women in general are nags only genetically.
Culturally they may refrain. Those get long marriages.
If there were only women in the world, then they would they nag each other.
I think our society should stop being double-minded about when children are to be included in the business of government.
It seems to me that we differentiate between people in court by their fingerprints and DNA. In tax law we use Social Security numbers and birth certificates. A parent needs these documents to get a tax deduction.
As a pro-lifer, I think it is time to issue post-dated birth certificates and Social Security numbers to babies as soon as a pregnancy test is positive.
That will clean up the controversy.
I have two 30 something women close to me that both have masters. Both want to be full time mothers.
Why is the left intent on denying them that choice? Hillary is intentionally 'othering'them, and wants to use culture to shame them into believing only careers can fullfill them.
Equal means “the same”. Men and women are not the same.
No two men (or women) — not even identical twins — are “the same” either. Even the same person — say, 1 second later — isn't the same.
Even the ancient Greeks knew this. Heraclitus: “No man ever steps in the same river twice, for it's not the same river and he's not the same man.”
So I guess we can just junk all that stuff in the Declaration of Independence about “all men being created equal,” right?
Remember, Hillary knows better than you. "We're going to take things away from you on behalf of the common good." Like, say, your religious beliefs.
When Hillary says religious beliefs have to change, she means *yours* must change to match hers.
Under no circumstances will her beliefs be forced to change, as they are already correct.
Dear Hillary,
I will be glad to change my religious beliefs based on what you say they should be.
All I ask is that you have yourself crucified, die, and rise again on the third day.
How Christianity invented children The "progressives" case to make children disposable is actually regressive. Food for thought.
according to our Host
"Then she can come back and destroy you. She can tell you about the war against Islamic extremists who have religious beliefs that have to be changed. They're cutting people's heads off for not converting. They are raping and enslaving women. They are throwing gay people off tall buildings. Gotcha!"
I'll take that bait.
Soooo ...Hillary admits that Muslim religion teaches that killing is a basic tenet of the religion. That there are only two groups of humans on the planet. Muslims, And those that refuse to accept the faith and must be killed. Sounds alot like what some have been trying to say. Kill them.......because their only mission is to kill every non believer.
So the left cant have it both ways either Muslims are out to kill us, or those out to kill us arent Mulims. Gotcha
nd deep-seated cultural codes, religious beliefs and structural biases have to be changed.
Like those stubborn kulaks in the Ukraine, or those revanchist school teachers in Hue.
Bob Boyd, at 9:22 AM, has the right idea.
Fen, at nearly every time, has a screw or two loose.
If there were only women in the world, then they would they nag each other.
Bud Bundy: "Dad, I'll never understand women."
Al Bundy: “Don’t try to understand women. Women understand women and they hate each other.”
Meade; Fen, at nearly every time, has a screw or two loose.
Ah yes, another passive-aggressive bitch move from the Lawnboy.
And what was my sin? I corrected your misquote of me. How crazy is that?
"feminism is the radical notion that women are people"
This was true originally and the feminists more or less won the argument. Unfortunately, feminists still need something to do, so the cause has evolved into:
1. Women are identical to men in all ways.
2. Women don't need men.
3. Women are superior to men.
4. True feminists are lesbians with the corollary that all heterosexual men are rapists by definition.
Given the natural results of these philosophies - the last being cultural suicide - it is quite clear that none of this actually works except for a small privileged subset. There is a reason why the large majority of women no longer identify as feminists.
As to your spectating, the First Battle of Bull Run would not be a good choice as your illustration, barring your plan to flee in panic through the streets of Madison. Actually, it would be the 19th century equivalent of "you will be made to care." I imagine Laslo Spatula leading the pursuit, probably waving something considered obscene by most of the neighborhood with you screaming that regardless of clear First Amendment protections you would prefer if he would exercise his rights somewhere else.
She can tell you about the war against Islamic extremists who have religious beliefs that have to be changed.
I welcome her to come forward and denounce Islamic Extremists who have religious belief's that need to be changed.
So, I'm happy to step into this trap.
Because she is never going to come forward and denounce Islam. As a matter of fact, she will do just the opposite. Instead of indict Islam for it's worst elements, she will pretend it's the fault of those who insult Islam and it's adherents through silly movies and video's released over YouTube.
Not very politically astute, Althouse.
Blogger iowan2 said...
according to our Host
"Then she can come back and destroy you. She can tell you about the war against Islamic extremists who have religious beliefs that have to be changed. They're cutting people's heads off for not converting. They are raping and enslaving women. They are throwing gay people off tall buildings. Gotcha!"
I'll take that bait.
Soooo ...Hillary admits that Muslim religion teaches that killing is a basic tenet of the religion. That there are only two groups of humans on the planet. Muslims, And those that refuse to accept the faith and must be killed. Sounds alot like what some have been trying to say. Kill them.......because their only mission is to kill every non believer.
So the left cant have it both ways either Muslims are out to kill us, or those out to kill us arent Mulims. Gotcha
Oh dang, you beat me to it.
This is what happens when I comment first, then read from bottom to top.
and the masks continue to come off. I remember when the Democrat Party platform included the words "safe, legal, and rare"
Will president Clinton abolish the freedom to exercise your religion via Executive Order?
Fen said;
But lets not weigh in on something as meaty as that. Instead, lets take the perspective that "getting the GOP to talk about abortion" is a very savy political trick.
Thanks to Rand Paul, the script here has been flipped. And we need more politically savvy guys like Rand Paul in the race. When he refused to take the bait on abortion and turned it around on them, it was brilliant.
This needs to happen more.
In the meantime, our hostess hasn't caught up yet. She thinks this current batch of Presidential candidates are still going to be turned into Akin.
I'm anxious for this political season as we see how much better Paul, Rubio and Cruz are at handling the media.
I don't think what she said is so bad, I took it as an implied "if ... then .." statement.
Widespread acceptance of abortion of to the second the baby's head breaks the plane would necessarily imply that a large section of society's religious beliefs had changed a great deal.
There's lots of ways that could happen. Loving and valuing children is pretty recent in human civilization and not that widespread.
If American religion were to change enough to wholeheartedly embrace abortion, I think it would happen from the bottom up--more consumerism, more careerism, more Keeping Up with the Kardashians, etc.
I think Hillary thinks so too--I don't think there's enough in there to assume she's announced her sekrit master plan of SWATting churches that don't endorse late term abortion.
As to the subject at hand, given recent developments "religious beliefs... have to be changed" sounds very threatening, especially since the chosen vehicle of that attempted change has hardly been persuasive speech. Whether this is a tone deaf speech writer producing words for a tone deaf candidate, or an intentional "squirrel" moment I cannot say. Perhaps both. Hillary is so desperate at the moment that being accused of wanting to engage in religious persecution may actually be beneficial to her. This does not recommend her.
Thanks Meade.
Hillary is talking about religion as a problem for women because many swing voters associate Republicans with fundamentalist religions and therefore women in traditional roles, I.E. oppressed women.
Sure Islam gives her deniability she's insulting American Christians, that's a good point, but Hillary is campaigning in America against Republicans and doing it as a symbol of women in non-traditional roles.
Hillary will be happy to talk all day about women's issues and abortion. That is her turf. Why do Republicans want to fight on Hillary's turf?
There are so very many things Hillary doesn't want to talk about. Those are the issues Republicans should be hammering.
Bob Boyd: Thanks Meade.
Sorry man, but Meade didn't really mean it.
He was just teeing up fake praise so he could take a cheap shot at me.
I think it was Fen who called it years ago: women are to remain available for sex and taxation.
I wish Hillary would change her religion from the Cult of the State to something, you know, more PRO-freedom.
Meade: I think it was Fen who called it years ago: women are to remain available for sex and taxation.
Yah I never said that either.
And two can play at false attribs of quotes.
Hillary will be happy to talk all day about women's issues and abortion. That is her turf. Why do Republicans want to fight on Hillary's turf?
I'll tell you why.
Because she is wrong on her turf.
Republicans need to take Hillary's message of women's issues and abortion to black Churches. To Jewish Temples. To Muslim Mosques.
Republicans need to get her on record of saying that she intends to change all of us, not just fundamental Christians. They need to go into these places and say, these are the people you're voting into office.
Jews, Muslims and Christians are natural political allies in the United States.
The Republican candidates for President need to take all these instances of attacking the Christian Right over gay marriage and women's issues and abortion and go to these other areas and say, "First they came for the Christian Right and I didn't say anything, because I wasn't Christian...."
Make the case!
Don't run away.
The idea that a Dem candidate is baiting opponents into a discussion of religion in order to discuss the religious flaws of Islam is utterly absurd. She might as well beg her oikophobic (hat tip: James Taranto) base to begin a "Draft Warren" movement.
Equally absurd is the idea that such jujitsu, even if attempted, would somehow redound against Republicans. They've been saying for years that focusing on gay marriage opposing bakers and candlestick makers is focusing on the wrong pernicious religion.
I welcome Hillary bringing religion into the presidential campaign. Let's have the discussion about the current Democrat treatment of Christianity in the public square. Let's see how well that works for them.
Hillary is not inevitable. Her resounding defeat is inevitable. She lacks the charisma to overcome the baggage of eight years of Democratic incompetence and malfeasance in the executive branch.
So, the Clintons are pro-choice and support a selective-child policy. That's not new, or is it?
It is both scientific fact, and, more so, self-evident knowledge, that human life begins at conception and continues until a natural, accidental, or premeditated (e.g. abortion) death.
The pro-abortion cult supports an unprecedented violation of our basic human right to life. It is not surprising that they will sincerely defend their sacrificial rites to murder virginal and wholly innocent human lives.
Oh, well. Pass the opiates. Now we are covered and any semblance of civilization suppressed. I wonder what else people will sacrifice for the liberal opiates of wealth, pleasure, and leisure, in the wake of narcissistic indulgence.
Sorry Fen, I was outside doing my lawn boy thing.
Now, what seems to be the problem, Fenster? Oh yeah — your loose screws. Alright, I'll take a look. Ah! here's the problem. See these? They aren't technically loose but someone wound them down a little too tight. That stripped the treads. Now you can't get them even snug-tight OR loose. And that is where your rattling sound was coming from.
Also, you might want to get a lube job. Before something seizes up on you. I recommend taking it to Instapundit's. He's got the shop manual you need for this old Fenstrater machine of yours. For maintenance.
Maintenance sex, that is. Good luck and be careful, my fen. And don't be a splooge stooge. Like that big splooge stooge of all splooge stooges.
That's right: Bill Clinton.
Oh, and no, I meant it — Bob Boyd's are the smartest comments on this thread. Read them again and I think even you will see what I mean, Fen.
chickelit:
Simple, it reduces the competition. From a purely natural perspective, aborting your competition, and then convincing them to voluntarily (i.e. pro-choice) sacrifice their children, is a conclusive victory.
Still, the opiates must be really good in order to suppress or transform men and women's natural behaviors and override their evolutionary fitness function.
Bow down before the one you serve.
Other than in primitive societies and satanic cults, is there a precedent for society to normalize or promote sacrificial rites?
Is there a precedent where women will in mass voluntarily participate in the murder of their own children... for promises of wealth, pleasure, and leisure?
It seems like a depraved behavior matched only by serial murderers and rapists, and in war -- which rarely realizes 100% collateral damage -- that should be treated. So, Femenism is either a murderous cult or is waging a war on humanity.
jr565:
Atheists? Perhaps. They are amoral and opportunistic. They can only be countered by competing interests with sufficient leverage. Advantage: Democrat.
I suppose that in this respect, religion or moral philosophy does act as an opiate or serve to suppress self-preservation instincts. But, then again, so do laws properly oriented and configured. Both religion and rule of law are designed to suppress behaviors. Unfortunately, they are notoriously dual-use.
Gahrie:
Women and men. Femenism is a dual-use ideology that ostensibly serves women, but with the progress of sacrificial rites, can be properly understood to advance the fitness of select women and men. Just another policy to exploit for leverage over competing interests. Indoctrination in to the cult's rites begin at an early age.
Still, the opiates must be really good in order to convince a large number of women and men to voluntarily exchange their natural fitness for promises of shiny trinkets and good feelings. Not that it's a new phenomenon.
eric:
That's right. They were wrong about slavery. They are wrong about abortion. In the most hospitable interpretations, both were/are wicked solutions to wicked problems, especially the latter. An advanced civilization should be able to do better than to normalize sacrificial rites with a selective-child policy.
n.n.
My point wasn't so much that abortion is wrong. Althouse knows we believe that.
Instead, my point was to push back against Althluses larger point of, shut up.
She is being too clever by half. Reverse psychology meant to make us think if we engage on this subject we will lose. Therefore, the best course of action is for Republicans to cede the high ground to Clinton. Its just coincidence that her advise to is also happens to forward her own cause in support of abortion rights for women.
She does the same thing on homosexuals pretending they can get married. Its over, remember?
she wants people to change their religious belief that life is precious to the belief that it is OK to kill innocent babies when they're inconvenient to your pursuit of the almighty dollar.
She really needs to think before she says this crap.
darrenoia said...
The idea that a Dem candidate is baiting opponents into a discussion of religion in order to discuss the religious flaws of Islam is utterly absurd.
I think our hostess realizes this, as does Meade. But their larger point is, shut up.
Which is why Meade doesn't engage Fen directly in argument, he taunts and teases him in order to distract. Meade is a very clever board warrior. He knows how to get under Fen's skin and try and get Fen to shut up.
It's not going to work, in either sense.
Republicans would be wise to ignore Ann Althouse and her advise her and Fen would be wise to just ignore Meade when he's being taunted by him.
I am puzzled by her campaign to date. She claims to be working for the votes of "everyday Americans" which translated means blue collar whites who have been running from the Dem party like it has Ebola. She thinks implying that they must be forced to change their religious beliefs - sounds like forcibly, to me - to allow unfettered access to abortions will get their votes?
Meade: Sorry Fen, I was outside doing my lawn boy thing blah blah more sexual insults.
Geez Meade, you sure go full bitch when doing the white knight thing for Althouse. What a petty little creature you've become.
I recommend taking it to Instapundit's. For maintenance.
Maintenance sex, that is.
I see Instapundit has hurt your little feelings too. Do you need a safe space?
eric
Instead, my point was to push back against Althluses* larger point of, shut up.
Well put. Her position is getting boring and predictable. And there is plenty wrong with Hillary for those wishing to attack her ghastly social agenda to continue and for those wishing to point out her "unforced errors" to continue as well. We have met the enemy and the enemy is she.
________________
*Althusian nightmare?
I have a son and a daughter. I'm tired of Hillary's incessant banter about helping only one half of what I care about.
eric:
I agree. However, she also recognizes it is a wicked solution, but chooses to defer to individual judgment and sincerely held faith. Abortion is indeed a wicked problem, but I think we can do better than to promote its exercise. Too many "planned" innocent lives have been lost to the abortion industry.
Also, it's clearly not over. Their pro-choice or selective policies are creating moral hazards through selective exclusion and debasement of human dignity and life. That's why they have shifted from a progressive/incremental process to a liberal/stepwise movement. They are desperate. They are playing chicken, hoping to force a premature confrontation.
For example, the sudden rush to impose and enforce the perception of men as rapists and potential rapists is a liberal departure from their previous effort to paint men as merely aggressive. This reflects the growing unease of Americans with the fantasy and amorality of the pro-choice or selective-child policy. They need to exploit the morally ambiguous situation of rape... or perhaps rape-rape, to justify their peculiar religion or moral philosophy, which is actually amoral and opportunistic.
The din of cognitive dissonance is progressive and will eventually be conclusive.
Fen's an idiot.
Did Jesus treat women badly? I think not, but it makes a great story for the genitalia crowd.
LindaH. said...
Fen's an idiot.
4/25/15, 7:28 PM
Fen has contributed lots to this blog's commentary over the years.
What has LindaH, hiding behind her "profile not available," contributed here or to the web?
April A: "I live in a town that is 70% leftist. They attend church. The local episcopalian church is filled with leftists.
The idea that only people on the right are religious is a cultural myth...."
It isn't about being "religious" it's about being Christian. I am an apostate Episcopalian. Episcopalians are, for the most part, Christianish, not Christian. Or, if you prefer, and even if you don't, "Cafeteria Christians."
This is true of most denominational churches. They pray their politics and bleed parishioners.
I admit I did not listen to the entire speech, so I do not know if Hillary did actually come back and say what you have her saying here, Ann. . .
"Then she can come back and destroy you. She can tell you about the war against Islamic extremists who have religious beliefs that have to be changed. They're cutting people's heads off for not converting. They are raping and enslaving women. They are throwing gay people off tall buildings. Gotcha!"
I'd be very happy to hear Hillary specify what she meant in this way with this particular religious viciousness as her example. Wake me and tell me when she does that and I will stand up and applaud. I do not expect to be applauding soon.
As to Republicans talking about abortion, they should talk about abortion. Opinions on abortion are very split and while the "pure" pro-life position is a minority, the majority likes many parts of the pro-life movement. Abortion is, ultimately, a very ugly thing.
That said, Republican politicians need to be very careful when they talk about abortion. The mainstream media is probably something like 90% pro-choice and not afraid to be biased as we have seen in recent elections. Any Republican should be drilled on the proper answers to give. So far the Republican candidates for President appear to be prepared. Rather amazing consider the ineptness prior.
the advancement of the full participation of women and girls in every aspect of their societies is the great unfinished business of the 21st century
Except girls who are not yet born
The great pro-women legacy of the society without deep seated religious beliefs"
"Sex-selective abortions became common in China in the 1990s as a result of the country’s strict (now somewhat laxer) one-child-per-couple policy and a traditional preference for sons...If China had had a normal sex ratio at birth, according to a report in 2012 by the UN Population Fund it would have had 721m girls and women in 2010. In fact it had only 655m—a difference of 66m"
66 million fewer women in this world.
But there is hope.
"Many experts, foreign and Chinese, now accept that there are probably more Christians than there are members of the 87m-strong Communist Party. Most are evangelical Protestants."
@Phil 3:14:
First, can you prove that HRC took one red cent from the PRC?
Second, would her supporters give a rat's ass?
LindaH. Fen's an idiot.
Nice try Meade.
And very pathetic. Thanks, you've reminded me why I have such a low opinion of you.
What happened to you anyway? You used to provide reasonable and intelligent commentary here.
I noticed something was wrong when Althouse had that meltdown and closed her comments after insulting everyone here. Those still loyal to her formed their own chat group... and then I watched as you went over and trolled them. These people were on your side, and you treated them like shit.
So what the hell happened to you? You've become an old man who behaves like a little Mean Girl. Sad.
Its the difference in intelligence, isn't it? You didn't realize how much smarter Ann is than you. And now you feel like you've lost your balls.
So you lash out.
Lawn bitch doesn't like it when his meal ticket gets criticized.
I also remember Meade lashing out on that other blog. Including the time he started throwing out insults based on sexuality, deleting them, and then lying until he was caught.
Its tough to be the kept pet of someone much more successful financially and academically, which is why he lashes out from time to time.
Dare I say, it's "ugly.'
Althouse, if you think there is a chance in a million that Hillary! would say that Muslim beliefs need to be changed, you're batshit crazy.
"You didn't realize how much smarter Ann is than you."
Oh, Fen. She's not as smart as you seem to think she is. Quit being such a big old white knight for once.
Neither of you is as smart as you seem to think, nor as wise by half. But you got the mean part down. Stupid and mean is a bad combination. As for bitch....Ann is the classic case but you do very well for a man. I hadn't remembered you like that.
Curious. Do you two ever disagree on anything? Will we ever see it on the blog? If so, how will she punish you?
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