March 27, 2015

Who was that the man who killed the Wisconsin state trooper in Fond du Lac?

We talked about this shoot out here. The topic of race came up, though the article didn't mention the race of the man, Steven Timothy Snyder, who was also shot and killed, or of the trooper, Trevor Casper. But insinuations about race crept into the comments. I was accused of hitting "a new low," because I "must have known the reaction your post would get from some of your horribly racist commenters."

Now we learn something racial about Snyder and not just that he was white:

[I]n 1996, Snyder [a Michigan man] was arrested in Fond du Lac [Wisconsin] after a bloody brawl between a group of “Skinheads” and another group of “Blacks and Hispanics.” According to a criminal complaint from the case, the two groups pulled out pipes and baseball bats and started swinging. When officers arrived, they scattered. But the officers caught what documents describe as one of the Skinheads — then 19-year-old Snyder. He had several white power tattoos and a coat filled with small, printed cards promoting the “National Alliance,” a white supremacist group. Another young man from Fond du Lac was later caught and arrested, carrying a card with the words, “FDL Boot Boys” and a Celtic cross....
More here:
When arrested, [Snyder] was carrying several business cards for the "National Alliance," a white supremacist organization in Hillsboro, W.Va. Accompanying the card was literature with the National Alliance creed: "We believe … That the future is what we make it. That we have a responsibility for the racial quality of the coming generation of our people. That no multi-racial society is a healthy society. That if the white race is to survive we must unite our people on the basis of common blood, organize them within a progressive social order and inspire them with a common set of values. That time to begin is now."

A 16-year-old in the group told police they were only violent when they needed to be. During questioning by police, many of the skinheads responded with: "Achtung," the German word for "attention." They told authorities they felt a need to suppress any nationality but white.

104 comments:

Freder Frederson said...

I can't wait for the apologies to roll in.

I won't hold my breath though.

Freder Frederson said...

Now maybe we can recklessly speculate that the trooper was killed because he was hesitant to kill a white man (because, you know white people just don't commit crimes).

Unknown said...

Its axiomatic, only losers brag about their racial identity.

If the only thing you have to brag about is that people with the same skin color as you did great things then perhaps you should rethink your life plan.

wildswan said...

No one is going to say that Snyder was misunderstood. We all understand that he believed in hating members of other races. Many of us think that that is always wrong.

campy said...

But I bet he looked adorable when he was a child.

traditionalguy said...

But what color was his skin? He could have been a secret dusky colored mole passing as pure white...you know a Polack or a Wop or a Spaniard.

YoungHegelian said...

...organize them within a progressive social order and inspire them with a common set of values.

Synder worked for the DNC? Who knew?

Ann Althouse said...

"I can't wait for the apologies to roll in. I won't hold my breath though."

Why wait? You can apologize right now.

Shanna said...

secret dusky colored mole ...you know a Polack

? I'm sorry are you saying poles are 'dusky'??? Have you ever met someone from poland?

AllenS said...

I've been trying to link an article about "when race matters", but the St Paul MN paper won't let me copy it.

So, go to Google and type in "Joe Soucheray" click on the first article listed.

Fen said...

AReasonableMan: As madisonfella said, attempts to score political points off this man's death is contemptible.

That's rich coming from the crowd that used the corpses of Trayvon Martin and Micheal Brown as political props.

Check you soles, I think you still have blood and skin tissue on them.

YoungHegelian said...

Oh, the National Alliance is William Pierce's group (Pierce wrote the infamous Turner Diaries). After Pierce died it was run by former Obama voter, Erich Gliebe.

Whether of the far Left or the far Right, these groups are miscreants on parade, and the National Alliance is no different.

rhhardin said...

It's hard to guess what the apology sought is supposed to be for.

Probably some profiling or other.

But did it get the odds wrong?

Maybe somebody needs to urge their race to clean up their act so that the odds change to something unremarkable.

William said...

I don't think this guy has many supporters outside of his immediate circle. There's no such thing as skinhead chic. No reporter or sociologist will do a deep think article about how this ugly act was the result of years of mistreatment. He can safely be described as a thug, and you don't have to double check your racial motivations in so describing him......Perhaps the comparative scarcity of miscreants like this among whites is due to the fact that they are not lionized or considered tragic rebels.

Big Mike said...

@Althouse, your comment at 11:01 is simply the most perfect squelch I've seen in years.

Scott said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Scott said...

The only people who know what really happened have killed each other. Did the trooper have a dash-mounted video cam? Were his words recorded?

Back-filling motives has a certain lameness to it. Without evidence, it's just speculation.

traditionalguy said...

@Shanna...That was a joke about the eastern Europeans ways of judging ethnicity of slavs and tatars between themselves and from village to village. It's stupid, right. And what is a sephardic Jew, anyway?

I will add joke warning in the future.

garage mahal said...

Recently, for some reason, skinheads are attracted to Wisconsin. Business must be good.

Simon said...

"They told authorities they felt a need to suppress any nationality but white." Clearly they felt the need to opt out of the schooling, too, where they might have learned that "white" is not a "nationality."

Rocketeer said...

Recently, for some reason, skinheads are attracted to Wisconsin. Business must be good.

Right you are - all those bitter, disillusioned unionists, pining to be "organized within a progressive social order and inspired with a common set of values," ripe for the picking.

Sigivald said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Richard Dolan said...

This post invites a 'racial obsession syndrome' tag. It would have applied to Snyder, too.

Sigivald said...

"Recently".

Like, uh, 1996?

Do shut up, garage.

I mean, please comment. When you have something to say that withstands a moment's glance at the post or any existing information.

Which was not that comment; you want to imply that Something About Walker Attracts Nazis.

But unless it's so powerful it escapes the very bounds of time itself it can't explain Snyder's arrest in 1996.

Thus, it's just reflexive attribution of anything you think might stain to The Wicked Other, Walker.

Which, well, just do that in private so nobody else has to see, okay?

garage mahal said...

Right you are - all those bitter, disillusioned unionists

Can you imagine if Synder were a unionist? We would be hearing about it 24/7. You guys shit your pants over signs.

I Callahan said...

Why wait? You can apologize right now.

Zinggg!!!!!

Gabriel said...

@garage mahal:Can you imagine if Synder were a unionist?

Well, trade unions were the earliest backers of the National Socialist Democratic German Worker's Party.

Rocketeer said...

Can you imagine if Synder were a unionist?

He's a progressive, GM - literally card carrying. Fellow traveler, buddy! And really, what is National Alliance but a union, after all? I'm sure his dues were all paid up. The white supremacists are your fellow travelers, and everything they do is on you guys.

Fun, isn't it?

Rocketeer said...

Well, trade unions were the earliest backers of the National Socialist Democratic German Worker's Party.

Gabriel, GM's coming back with the old "but Deutsche Arbeitsfront wasn't a real union" canard in 3..2..1...

Curious George said...

"garage mahal ♤♡♢♧ said...
Recently, for some reason, skinheads are attracted to Wisconsin. Business must be good."

He might have been on his way to Madison, the worse city in America, worse than Ferguson, MO, according to the Madison group Young, Black, and Gifted. Still waiting for your opinion on that garage. The one you said would be coming.

No worries, we understand.

garage mahal said...

The white supremacists are your fellow travelers, and everything they do is on you guys.

Skinheads weren't recruiting at union rallies. They were recruiting at Tea Party rallies.

Jason said...

It's time we put an end to the epidemic of racism, hatred and bigotry endemic to the Deep North.

Jason said...

Yes, but was he a white Hispanic?

Rocketeer said...

"I think that I have already answered the first question adequately. In the present state of affairs I am convinced that we cannot possibly dispense with the trades unions. On the contrary, they are among the most important institutions in the economic life of the nation. Not only are they important in the sphere of social policy but also, and even more so, in the national political sphere. For when the great masses of a nation see their vital needs satisfied through a just trade unionist movement the stamina of the whole nation in its struggle for existence will be enormously reinforced thereby.
Before everything else, the trades unions are necessary as building stones for the future economic parliament, which will be made up of chambers representing the various professions and occupations."
-- A.H., Mein Kampf

Whoa - get a load of all that "trade union" talk! Doesn't sound very "Tea Party-y" to me.

Trashhauler said...

Heh. What is this fascination with the social pathology of every perp? When I read about this incident, I assumed the robber/killer was a just another bad guy - exactly the same way I felt about that Ferguson kid who got shot.

garage mahal said...

Whoa - get a load of all that "trade union" talk! Doesn't sound very "Tea Party-y" to me.

"The next day, on May 2, 1933, unions were dissolved, their assets were confiscated, their offices were occupied and their leaders were arrested. Hitler then outlawed strikes, abolished collective bargaining and established the German Labor Front, a corrupt party organization."

That does sound pretty "Tea Party-y" to me.

Curious George said...

" garage mahal ♤♡♢♧ said...
Whoa - get a load of all that "trade union" talk! Doesn't sound very "Tea Party-y" to me.

"The next day, on May 2, 1933, unions were dissolved, their assets were confiscated, their offices were occupied and their leaders were arrested. Hitler then outlawed strikes, abolished collective bargaining and established the German Labor Front, a corrupt party organization."

That does sound pretty "Tea Party-y" to me."

Only because you are a fucking idiot. Nationalization of industry is a progressive idea.

garage mahal said...

Nationalization of industry is a progressive idea.

Crushing labor unions and replacing it with corrupt party cronyism sounds like Wisconsin to me. Think WMC & WEDC.

Rocketeer said...

What you know about history is...very selective, GM. The DAF and the Nazi Party were the same - the DAF was a "corrupt party organization - the union ideal!

Rocketeer said...

Corrupt party cronyism? Think AFL and CIO.

chickelit said...

garage mahal ♤♡♢♧ quoted....

The next day, on May 2, 1933, unions were dissolved, their assets were confiscated, their offices were occupied and their leaders were arrested. Hitler then outlawed strikes, abolished collective bargaining and established the German Labor Front, a corrupt party organization."

That does sound pretty "Tea Party-y" to me.


In other words, he banned private sector unions and made them all State Employee Unions.

Not very Walkeresque at all.

garage mahal said...

It's understandable that some people would be uncomfortable when the policies of Hitler and Scott Walker are compared to each other. In this case unions. I get it.

I Callahan said...

It's understandable that some people would be uncomfortable when the policies of Hitler and Scott Walker are compared to each other.

Of course some people are uncomfortable. That usually happens when someone makes one of the most idiotic comparisons in this blog's history.

You've really gone off the deep end in your hatred of Walker. Get help.

chickelit said...

Camper Van Beethoven: Take The Skinheads Bowling

Bowling involves black balls knocking down white pins with red necks.

Matt Sablan said...

It makes me uncomfortable when historical illiteracy is used to try and instigate a five-minute hate.

Rocketeer said...

In other words, he banned private sector unions and made them all State Employee Unions.

Just so...the historical illiteracy is just poor GM's version of sticking his fingers in his ears and saying LALALALALALA to make himself forget.

Ken Mitchell said...

traditionalguy said... "And what is a sephardic Jew, anyway?"

The Jewish diaspora passed through two broad paths; through North Africa and Spain, or through Central Europe. Sephardic Jews are generally the ones who came from Egypt, Northern Africa and Spain; Ashkenazic Jews come from Russia, Poland and Europe. There are slight differences in traditions, and the Hebrew language has split into Sephardic and Ashkenazic dialects, with variations in how certain letters are pronounced. An Ashkenazim will say, for example, "shabbat", meaning "the sabbath"; a Sephardic Jew will pronounce it as "shabbos".

Curious George said...

"garage mahal ♤♡♢♧ said...
Nationalization of industry is a progressive idea.

Crushing labor unions and replacing it with corrupt party cronyism sounds like Wisconsin to me. Think WMC & WEDC."

LOL WMC has been around for over 100 years moron. And the WEDC...how again does it "Crush labor unions" and which have been crushed?

BTW, your loser of candidate against Walker is on record saying that state assistance would be based on party cronyism.

Fucking idiot.

James Pawlak said...

Well, at least the was not a Black, teen-aged, drug intoxicated,(Strong-Armed OR Armed) Robber, who endangered drivers and others on public streets who was murdered by police during the commission of a felony!!!

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

Gabriel said...
Well, trade unions were the earliest backers of the National Socialist Democratic German Worker's Party.


This is so stupid it is sad. The most famous quote about the rise of the Nazis comes from Martin Niemöller a Protestant pastor and critic of Adolf Hitler who spent the last seven years of Nazi rule in concentration camps.

"First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me."

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

Fen said...
Check you soles, I think you still have blood and skin tissue on them.


Once again a hysterical loser want's to bring race into a discussion where it is irrelevant.

SGT Ted said...

I'd say comparing Walker to Hitler is far stupider.

YoungHegelian said...

@ARM,

One guy's anecdote -- that's your idea of history? Might not the phrase "Trade Unionist" mean another kind of Lefty in this context? Because the first guys the Nazis came after weren't trade unionists or social democrats.

Niemoller might have an axe of his own to grind as to who he remembers. I notice he doesn't say "When they came for the SA" or "When they came for the mentally retarded & enfeeble" both of which were big deals when they happened, the first because it was the Nazis murdering their own in broad daylight & the second because the Catholic Church went publicly ballistic over it.

SGT Ted said...

Since the cop shooter was a white racist gang member, no one will defend him. If he were a black street thug, we'd hear about how horribly over-policed we are from the lefties. We'd hear about how trigger happy the cops are.

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

SGT Ted said...
I'd say comparing Walker to Hitler is far stupider.


They at least have awkward hair styles in common. There was not overlap between the Nazis and the socialists and trade unionists. They were enemies, mortal enemies in many cases.


SGT Ted said...

Both groups are collectivist and State authoritarian in outlook. The Nazi, like the Communists, were just far more honest about their authoritarianism.

The exact opposite of any sort of Tea Party outlook on government.

garage mahal said...

This is how things get done in Wisconsin now.

"So a little more than three years ago, when Menard wanted to back Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker — and help advance his pro-business agenda — he found the perfect way to do so without attracting any attention: He wrote more than $1.5 million in checks to a pro-Walker political advocacy group that pledged to keep its donors secret, three sources directly familiar with the transactions told Yahoo News. Menard's previously unreported six-figure contributions to the Wisconsin Club for Growth — a group that spent heavily to defend Walker during a bitter 2012 recall election — seem to have paid off for the businessman and his company. In the past two years, Menard's company has been awarded up to $1.8 million in special tax credits from a state economic development corporation that Walker chairs,A according to state records."

Save Big Money at Menards!

Curious George said...

Doyle's DNR jerked around Menard's so much that he finally gave up and built a distro center in Iowa.

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

YoungHegelian said...
One guy's anecdote -- that's your idea of history?


Well, he has one distinct advantage as source over you and that ninny Jonah Goldberg. He was actually there at the time.

Curious George said...

"garage mahal ♤♡♢♧ said...
Menard's company has been awarded up to $1.8 million in special tax credits from a state economic development corporation that Walker chairs,A according to state records."

And now the truth. Menard's has only received $164,00 in credits over the last two years. The credits were "strictly performance based with strong contractual requirements to meet performance objectives,"

Oh, Menards also qualified for $1.5 million in tax breaks and received $1 million under Democratic former Gov. Jim Doyle.

Fail. It's a state of life for you garage.

Gabriel said...

@ARM:There was not overlap between the Nazis and the socialists and trade unionists. They were enemies, mortal enemies in many cases.

That's why the Nazi ranks were so full of ex-communists.

From the Twenty-Five Points program:

7.We demand that the state be charged first with providing the opportunity for a livelihood and way of life for the citizens. If it is impossible to sustain the total population of the State, then the members of foreign nations (non-citizens) are to be expelled from the Reich.

8.Any further immigration of non-citizens is to be prevented. We demand that all non-Germans, who have immigrated to Germany since 2 August 1914, be forced immediately to leave the Reich.

9.All citizens must have equal rights and obligations.

10.The first obligation of every citizen must be to work both spiritually and physically. The activity of individuals is not to counteract the interests of the universality, but must have its result within the framework of the whole for the benefit of all. Consequently we demand:

11.Abolition of unearned (work and labour) incomes. Breaking of debt (interest)-slavery.

12.In consideration of the monstrous sacrifice in property and blood that each war demands of the people, personal enrichment through a war must be designated as a crime against the people. Therefore we demand the total confiscation of all war profits.

13.We demand the nationalisation of all (previous) associated industries (trusts).

14.We demand a division of profits of all heavy industries.

15.We demand an expansion on a large scale of old age welfare.

16.We demand the creation of a healthy middle class and its conservation, immediate communalization of the great warehouses and their being leased at low cost to small firms, the utmost consideration of all small firms in contracts with the State, county or municipality.

17.We demand a land reform suitable to our needs, provision of a law for the free expropriation of land for the purposes of public utility, abolition of taxes on land and prevention of all speculation in land.

18.We demand struggle without consideration against those whose activity is injurious to the general interest. Common national criminals, usurers, profiteers and so forth are to be punished with death, without consideration of confession or race.

19.We demand substitution of a German common law in place of the Roman Law serving a materialistic world-order.

20.The state is to be responsible for a fundamental reconstruction of our whole national education program, to enable every capable and industrious German to obtain higher education and subsequently introduction into leading positions. The plans of instruction of all educational institutions are to conform with the experiences of practical life. The comprehension of the concept of the State must be striven for by the school [Staatsbürgerkunde] as early as the beginning of understanding. We demand the education at the expense of the State of outstanding intellectually gifted children of poor parents without consideration of position or profession.

21.The State is to care for the elevating national health by protecting the mother and child, by outlawing child-labor, by the encouragement of physical fitness, by means of the legal establishment of a gymnastic and sport obligation, by the utmost support of all organizations concerned with the physical instruction of the young.



Yeah, sounds just the Heritage Foundation.

chickelit said...

"National Socialists" wanted to abolish the contrasting ideologies of both "national" and "socialist" in German society. People who say that Nazis were either "leftwing" or "rightwing" completely miss Hitler's sleight of hand: he wanted to fuse both ideologies -- whence the name NSPD.

Deep down, what HitIer triggered was a racist ideology based on Germanic myth. How does that relate to Scott Walker? According to groups on the scene like Young, Gifted, and Black, Walker-unfriendly Madison is the hottest bed of racism in the (w)hole of Wisconsin. Democrats need to either own or atone for that accusation before they fling shit at Walker.

Wake me up when we start hearing about the "Walker Youth" replacing the Boy Scouts.

Gabriel said...

@chickelit: People who say that Nazis were either "leftwing" or "rightwing" completely miss Hitler's sleight of hand: he wanted to fuse both ideologies -- whence the name NSPD.

I would agree with some of this. There isn't a "right wing" ideology in America that corresponds to what the "right wing" was in Europe in Hitler's time.

But there is a left-wing ideology in America that corresponds to the left wing in Europe at that time. And it uses the same rhetoric and the same ideas as Hitler and Stalin's flavors of socialism, but they insist on tarring small-government types with the Nazi brush.

YoungHegelian said...

@ARM,

Well, he has one distinct advantage as source over you and that ninny Jonah Goldberg. He was actually there at the time.

Are you saying no histories can be written by someone who wasn't there at the time? I'm not an historian, but why pick on Goldberg? Most histories of the Third Reich have been written by people who "weren't there at the time".

I'm not claiming that Niemoller's moral lesson here isn't valid. I'm just claiming that you using this list as indicative of the historical order of Nazi persecution is bogus, not only because it's factually incorrect, but also because the poem that it's drawn from is, well, a poem, & it went through various incarnations. It's meant as a moral lesson, not as an historical blow by blow document.

chickelit said...

I think many people think the Nazi's were right wingers simply because they fought the heroes of the left--the Soviet Union. But in fact, Germany's conflict with Russia was not based on conflicting notions of racism--the Soviets loved their pogroms too. Rather, they fought over territory--Lebensraum; the Germans threatened Russia's "near abroad."

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

No one said the Nazis were the Heritage Foundation, although they do appear to have had one common goal, holding down worker's wages. Under the Nazis between 1933 and 1939, the wages paid to German workers fell while the cost of living rose 25%.

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

Gabriel said...
That's why the Nazi ranks were so full of ex-communists.


Name one.

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

YoungHegelian said...
Are you saying no histories can be written by someone who wasn't there at the time?


No

I'm not an historian, but why pick on Goldberg?

Because he is a dummy who exists as a public figure solely because of his mother, who is not a dummy.

chickelit said...

Gabriel said...

That's why the Nazi ranks were so full of ex-communists.

A good example was the Nazi Chief Justice Roland Freisler, who tried and condemned enemies of the Reich. A particularly chilling first person account of him is here.

Freisler was an atheist, a communist, and a Nazi all rolled into one. And he represented "justice" in Nazi Germany!

chickelit said...

AReasonableMan said...

Under the Nazis between 1933 and 1939, the wages paid to German workers fell while the cost of living rose 25%.

And yet I'll bet that was an improvement on the hyperinflation years of the Weimar Republic.

garage mahal said...

Doyle. Drink!

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

YoungHegelian said...
I'm just claiming that you using this list as indicative of the historical order of Nazi persecution is bogus, not only because it's factually incorrect,


How is it incorrect? All three groups were targeted by the Nazi's. I am unaware of any serious person questioning this fact.

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

According to wiki:

"Freisler was never a Communist." He joined the Nazi Party in July 1925.

chickelit said...

Give the whole quote ARM;

While a prisoner of war in Russia, Freisler learned Russian. He is said to have developed an interest in Marxism after the Russian Revolution; the Bolsheviks made use of him as a commissar for the camp's food supplies.[3] It is also said that after the prisoner camps were dissolved in 1918, Freisler became a convinced Communist, though this is not supported by any contemporaneous documents.[4] However, historian H. W. Koch states that after the Bolshevik Revolution, the POW camps in Russia were handed over to German administration, and the title of commissar was merely functional, not political, and that "Freisler was never a Communist, though in the early days of his NS career [...] he belonged to the NSDAP's left wing."[5]

Conflict, conflict! Whom to believe?

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

A contemporaneous list of Communist party members with his name on it would be convincing. Otherwise, not a communist.

Definitely a Nazi though.

YoungHegelian said...

@ARM,

How is it incorrect? All three groups were targeted by the Nazi's. I am unaware of any serious person questioning this fact.

I realize that. I'm talking the order of the persecutions.

Niemoller is using poetic license to list, in the various versions of the poem, the various enemies of the Reich who they persecuted before they got to him. I've got no problem with the poem except for your use of it as a word by word "historical" document. You seem to think "Trade Unionists" means German Teamsters, and I'm guessing that since it comes between "Socialists" & "Jews" it meant some known group on the Left like the Trotskyites. Who knows? It's a poem. Maybe, "Trade Unionist" fit the meter better than "Commie".

Michael K said...

It's amusing to see the arguments over who was a communist and who was a Nazi. The Nazis and Socialists were rivals for power. Who signed the Treaty of Versailles for the Germans?

"And then, isolated and pitiable, come the two German delegates. Dr. Muller, Dr. Bell. The silence is terrifying. Their feet upon a strip of parquet between the savonnerie carpets echo hollow and duplicate. They keep their eyes fixed away from those two thousand staring eyes, fixed upon the ceiling. They are deathly pale. They do not appear as representatives of a brutal militarism. The one is thin and pink-eyelidded. The other is moon-faced and suffering. It is all most painful."

Who're they ?

"Hermann Müller actually travelled to France in 1914 to a meeting of various "socialist" (that term is significantly different than the pejoritive that it has in current use) leaders to attempt to prevent the war. Bell is an ironic signer in that he was an early advocate of a "United States of Europe," the creation of which would have been contrary to the heavy handed nationalist approaches which were included within the body of the treaty."

That's why Hitler hated and attacked the Socialists. They had been maneuvered into signing the hated treaty,

Curious George said...

"garage mahal ♤♡♢♧ said...
Doyle. Drink!"

About what I expected. As usual, post shit, get called on it, punt.

Darleen said...

There was not overlap between the Nazis and the socialists and trade unionists. They were enemies, mortal enemies in many cases.

More of a territorial dispute, not one of basic ideology ...

Kind of like hyenas & vultures squabbling over a carcass.

paminwi said...

Garage: all the information you posted about Menard's and the $ amount they gave to The Club for Growth is from sealed court documents. Guess who leaked them since they are losing in every court imaginable?

Chisholm , Schmitz and gang!

They just can't help themselves and you are shitting your pants you are so happy posting ill gotten information.



Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

Darleen said...
More of a territorial dispute, not one of basic ideology …


More BS. The Nazis stripped workers of the right to strike. Won't find find that move in many trade unionist's play books.

This obsession with trying to paint the Nazis as a left wing ideology makes no historical sense at all. I am starting to think that it has something to do with the fact that it was a Democrat who led us to defeat the Nazis. The last good war must have been a giant left-wing conspiracy.

chickelit said...

From ARM's favorite historical source, Wikipedia:

Although unions in the Soviet Union primarily promoted production interests, they had some input regarding production plans, capital improvements in factories, local housing construction, and remuneration agreements with management. Unions also were empowered to protect workers against bureaucratic and managerial arbitrariness, to ensure that management adhered to collective agreements, and to protest unsafe working conditions. However, strikes were illegal.

chickelit said...

So we have a fascist government outlawing strikes and worker's paradise outlawing strikes.

USSR ≈ Nazi Germany w/r/t Unions.

Next?

chickelit said...

The USSR's prohibition of unions was one reason Solidarity was such a threat (and an embarrassment to the USSR.


I wish we could just agree that both sides were totalitarian regimes unlike anything we'd countenance. It's immaterial and childish to paint Walker as a "Nazi."

chickelit said...

'Freisler was never a Communist, though in the early days of his NS career [...] he belonged to the NSDAP's left wing.'

Even that statement, used to undermine Gabriel's statement is ridiculous.

How could a Nazi party have a "left wing" if they were "right wingers"?

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

So now the Nazis were really communists? Shame about the war they fought and Hitler's obsessive anti-communism.

Thank God for FDR, that's all I can say. Making the world safe for trade unionists and socialists.



Darleen said...

The Nazis stripped workers of the right to strike

So what? Do you believe the Soviets allowed workers to strike?

The individual in both places was dismissed as irrelevant (and dangerous) to the group.

Whether fascist or communist the ideology was similar - national socialism or international socialism

F**k individual rights. The Group is All.

chickelit said...

How could a Nazi party have a 'left wing' if they were 'right wingers'?

Hi! I'm from the "left wing" of the Tea Party!

/sarc

Unknown said...

---So now the Nazis were really communists? --

I see ARMs losing another argument.

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

The Republican party doesn't have left and right leaning factions?

If the fact that the Nazis were not perfectly homogeneous ideologically is your best argument, you have nothing.

It was a Democrat who led the war to defeat the Nazis. Nazi sympathizers in the US and Britain were all on the right.



Rusty said...

More BS. The Nazis stripped workers of the right to strike. Won't find find that move in many trade unionist's play books.


So did Stalin.

Rusty said...

It was a Democrat who led the war to defeat the Nazis. Nazi sympathizers in the US and Britain were all on the right.


Mmmm. I don't think so.

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

Rusty said...
Mmmm. I don't think so.


Fact-free response suggest no evidence to support.

SGT Ted said...

It was a Democrat who led the war to defeat the Nazis. Nazi sympathizers in the US and Britain were all on the right.

Utter revisionist bullshit. Churchill wasn't a leftist.

The American LEFT were anti-war when Hitler and Stalin had a deal to divide Europe. They only went pro-war when Hitler betrayed Stalin.

Many rank and file progressives were supporters of fascism in it's early days and open admirers of Mussolini.

H. G. Wells, one of the most influential progressives of the 20th century, said in 1932 that progressives must become “liberal fascists” and “enlightened Nazis.” Regarding totalitarianism, he stated: “I have never been able to escape altogether from its relentless logic.” Calling for a “‘Phoenix Rebirth’ of Liberalism” under the umbrella of “Liberal Fascism,” Wells said: “I am asking for a Liberal Fascisti, for enlightened Nazis.”

The poet Wallace Stevens pronounced himself “pro-Mussolini personally.”

The eminent historian Charles Beard wrote of Mussolini’s efforts: “Beyond question, an amazing experiment is being made [in Italy], an experiment in reconciling individualism and socialism.”

Muckraking journalists almost universally admired Mussolini. Lincoln Steffens, for one, said that Italian fascism made Western democracy, by comparison, look like a system run by “petty persons with petty purposes.” Mussolini, Steffens proclaimed reverently, had been “formed” by God “out of the rib of Italy.”

McClure’s Magazine founder Samuel McClure, an important figure in the muckraking movement, described Italian fascism as “a great step forward and the first new ideal in government since the founding of the American Republic.”

After having vistited Italy and interviewed Mussolini in 1926, the American humorist Will Rogers, who was informally dubbed “Ambassador-at-Large of the United States” by the National Press Club, said of the fascist dictator: “I’m pretty high on that bird.” “Dictator form of government is the greatest form of government,” Rogers wrote, “that is, if you have the right dictator.”

Reporter Ida Tarbell was deeply impressed by Mussolini's attitudes regarding labor, affectionately dubbing him “a despot with a dimple.”

NAACP co-founder W. E. B. DuBois saw National Socialism as a worthy model for economic organization. The establishment of the Nazi dictatorship in Germany, he wrote, had been “absolutely necessary to get the state in order.” In 1937 DuBois stated: “there is today, in some respects, more democracy in Germany than there has been in years past.”

FDR adviser Rexford Guy Tugwell said of Italian fascism: “It's the cleanest, neatest, most efficiently operating piece of social machinery I've ever seen. It makes me envious.”

New Republic editor George Soule, who avidly supported FDR, noted approvingly that the Roosevelt administration was “trying out the economics of fascism.”

Playwright George Bernard Shaw hailed Stalin, Hitler, and Mussolini as the world’s great “progressive” leaders because they “did things,” unlike the leaders of those “putrefying corpses” called parliamentary democracies.

http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/viewSubCategory.asp?id=1223

SGT Ted said...

http://bobrowen.com/nymas/americafirst.html

The America First Committee initially had seemed only the latest and most extreme example of isolationist opinion in the United States that had grown up in the 1920s, and which had become stronger during the Great Depression. There had been a widespread belief in America since 1919 that the country had gained nothing out of the First War. That this was not true had little effect. The earliest important anti-war organization, the Keep America Out of War Congress, had been created in 1938 by Socialist Norman Thomas with the help of liberals like John T. Flynn, Oswald Garrison Villard, the former editor of the Nation, and Harry Elmer Barnes, revisionist historian of the First World War.[9] Anti-war organizations on American campuses were similarly led by liberals, Socialists and Communists. The Committee itself had been created by two Yale students. (One, Robert Douglas Stuart Jr., a 24 year old Princeton graduate, and son of the senior vice president of the Quaker Oats Company, was a law student sympathetic with New Deal reforms.[10] The other was Kingman Brewster.[11]) America First therefore appeared neither particularly conservative, nor pro-German. It was not surprising that Thomas and Villard soon joined the executive board.[12]

However, most AFC supporters were neither liberal, nor Socialist. Many simply wanted to stay out of the war.


Isolationism in the USA at the time was clearly not a right wing or GOP thing. It was a broad coalition of opposites. Much like support for the war.

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

Churchill was not a US politician. In the US it was the Democrat FDR who led the effort to go to war.

No amount of revisionism and cherry picking is going to change that fact. The last good war was waged and won by a Democrat.



SGT Ted said...

Are you saying that the GOP didn't support the war effort? Are you that stupid?

SGT Ted said...

Plenty of American progressives and socialists opposed the war. It is documented.

You claimed they were all on the right. So, you are wrong.

Who's the revisionist again?

SGT Ted said...

Your claim is wrong and you cannot shift the goal posts to make your claim to be correct.

If you can't admit the truth why should I bother chatting to you?

Later, dude.

chickelit said...

Are you saying that the GOP didn't support the war effort? Are you that stupid?

Yes, he is. Willfully so. Think of ARM as the guy who will counter any argument. He is the personification of the game Althouse used to play with her kids: "Can you defend this."

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

You guys are pathetically attempting to equate Nazism with left wing ideology, contrary to all common sense. And then you get bent out of shape when I point out that a Democrat waged and won the last good war. Get a grip guys.

By the way Democrat presidents have a better record on the economy as well.

Republicans, weak on war and the economy.

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

SGT Ted said...
Plenty of American progressives and socialists opposed the war. It is documented.


But they were anti-war, not pro-fascist like those on the right.


alan markus said...

This is pretty much a dead thread, but maybe some of you can come out of the rabbit hole long enough to consider that perhaps what he was back in 1996 (a 19 year old "skinhead") may not be what he was as an adult:

none of this makes sense to his longtime friend Steve Stier, who has known Snyder for 10 years, and last spoke to him about three weeks ago.

Stier said he first met Snyder in about 2005 through Snyder's company, Heritage Masonry, and the recent events don't match up with the man he knew.

"It's just dumbfounding," he said. "I'm still hoping that there's some terrible mistake."

Stier said that after he developed a historic preservation program through A. Philip Randolph Technical High School in Detroit, he was looking for a stone mason who could help him mentor construction students, who were primarily African-American teenagers from the inner city."There was no animosity or hatred," Stier said. "He thought it was important to teach these folks, who were all black, how to do this."

Once a week, they spent a half a day with the students in a hands-on workshop. Snyder was a good craftsman and good teacher, Stier said.


Man who killed trooper was wanted on Michigan warrant

Bad Lieutenant said...

No, Alan, only black hoodlums can reform. I think I read that on the white house website or something.