To make their point loud and clear, a group of the protesters... pulled their clothes off down to their underwear during the demonstration, revealing the words “Student Debt” written on their bodies.I think the "crap" comment is fine. I don't like rude protesting at a meeting where the students were given an opportunity to be heard and where Napolitano had addressed them saying "I want to commit to them that their voices are being heard." It's not as if she's 2-faced, saying one thing when she knows she's the students are hearing her and another when she thinks they are not. She said one thing about a group that she thought would engage in a polite colloquy and something else to 2 dozen half-dressed shouters.
“I don’t know where she’s coming from, but I’m assuming she’s never had to deal with these issues personally. So I can understand why there would be a disconnect there,” [student protester Kristian] Kim said after learning about the “crap” comment.
March 19, 2015
University of California President Janet Napolitano says "Let’s just break. Let’s go, let’s go. We don’t have to listen to this crap" into a hot mike.
"Napolitano was sitting next UC regent Chairman Bruce Varner as a group of about two dozen protesters shouted loudly, denouncing potential tuition hikes...."
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Lefties have been pulling the 'truth into a hot mic' trick ever since they watched President Bartlet do it on The West Wing. Unoriginal.
Janet Reno would have dealt with it better.
These student protestors are getting out of control. They block traffic int their cities, and have closed down at least UCSC so students couldn't attend classes.
I know students who have seen ambulances being blocked as these protesters sit on the main roads.
They have too much time on their hands, if you ask me, if they can waste their tuition money with their protesting hobby.
Tuition should be raised to actual cost of attendance.
Napolitano's hot mike is furthering the education of Ms. Kim. This is perhaps the first time in her life where Ms. Kim and her fellow self-dramatic students have been told that their theatrics are regarded by normal people with real work to do as "crap."
Big Oil, Big Pharma, et al are pikers compared to Big College. What a racket.
Right, because Democrats have no truck with political theater.
Perhaps protests about student debt would have more moral authority if protesters were demanding that the schools reduce their costs, instead of merely demanding that someone else pay the bill?
Sebastian said...Tuition should be raised to actual cost of attendance.
You mean lowered to the actual cost of attendance. Fine with me, just stop billing students for all the non-academic crap they and the taxpayers have to support.
As to the substance of their gripe, do they have any plausible solutions to the tuition hike problem? Have they suggested doing away with certain benefits (student gyms, free wifi) they enjoy if those cuts can be met with tuition cuts? Because if they're argument amounts to "someone else should have to pay for me" then go tell someone who might give a crap.
"How do we convince the taxpayers to spend more money our college education? Oh! I know! Stop attending classes and make it so others can't go!"
Well Ms. Kim did look somewhat attractive in a black bra and panties. But I don't think it helped her argument.
I'm no fan of Janet Napolitano--"Big Sis" was a rather dreadful Cabinet appointee. She was reverting back to her days when she was in charge of TSA. I'm certain that she wished Ms. Kim would show up at an airport screening facility where your average TSA agent would know what to do with her.
But at some point adults in the room--even such adults as Janet Napolitano--have the right to say "enough".
just stop billing students for all the non-academic crap they and the taxpayers have to support.
The students and taxpayers have to pay for it because the Federal Govt tells them to if they want money to do research, for example, among other excuses.
Kristian is a man's name.
I like honesty.
I clicked through. What a bummer.
Ms. Kim doesn't know how to use sex to sell her agenda at all. The boy haircut, the lame undergarments.
She needs to attend some marketing classes.
I'd respect her more had she said "We don't have to listen to these idiots."
This doesn't make my top 100 list of the "Sins of Janet Napolitano."
Who says protest must be polite? Polite protest is protest that is ignored.
As for Napolitano's comment, it shows what she really thinks of the students and their concerns, and it reveals that the entire gathering was a charade, a way of showing "pretend" concern, with no intent to consider the student concerns any further.
I'm not a fan of protesters, period. If you feel strongly about it, write a closely-argued trenchantly-written letter to the editor.
Curious George said...
Big Oil, Big Pharma, et al are pikers compared to Big College.
Exactly. But Big College owns altruism, and we just don't get it.
What happens to the University System if the students stop going into debt? It's been a nice free flow of cash for quite a while.
If the students asked politely, "what can you do to control costs so we don't have to borrow so much money for our education," would they be vilified like Walker?
Ms. Napolitano has a pretty nice compensation package.
$570K per year salary. $119,400 yearly to lease a 3500 sq ft house ($30K less that her predecessor), and $8900 for car allowance.
Seems like some student debt is quite necessary.
Of course, she's liberal, so it's not about the money. It's about the mission...the principles...the children.
Janet Napolitano is just another corrupt liberal, just another liberal full of liberal crap.
You know, the left has been encouraging these types of disruptive protests for so long, I have no sympathy when they're on the receiving end. Chicks and roosting and all.
"have closed down at least UCSC so students couldn't attend classes."
Does Santa Cruz have any useful classes ? I thought they were all dopers there.
"As for Napolitano's comment, it shows what she really thinks of the students and their concerns,"
What I really think, too.
Janet Napolitano is the dumbass liberal who preferred to call terrorists acts man made disasters when she was Secretary of Homeland Security.
It's Obamacare for education. Why are they protesting? Treat the symptoms, obfuscate the causes, and a minority is enriched. Perhaps the problem is inadequate "planning".
"You know, the left has been encouraging these types of disruptive protests for so long, I have no sympathy when they're on the receiving end. Chicks and roosting and all."
They started that crap in the sixties.
Does Santa Cruz have any useful classes ? I thought they were all dopers there
Jerk.
The protester doesn't understand why Napolitano would refer to their antics as "crap".
Napolitano doesn't understand that her university system taught the protester to be clueless.
Am I the only one to see the irony in this?
I think we should do something about student debt.
Stop loaning them money. They have shown they are too young and too foolish to be allowed to take out loans.
Let the Universities loan them the money directly. And allow them to declare bankruptcy if need be later.
Sorry, if you want to be taken seriously you have to strip naked.
Janet Napolitano and other liberals are good at gaming the system for their own benefit but they're incompetent at doing a good job whatever their government job is.
It seems Janet Napolitano was being too judgmental and so she has already apologized, remember this is the person who felt it was being too judgmental to refer to terrorists acts as terrorists acts so she called them man made disasters, our Secretary of Homeland Security at the time.
"Janet Reno would have dealt with it better."
Having them incinerated seems like a bit much, rhhardin.
Liberals are tired of this infant theatre too. But it's not in their interest to say so.
"Janet Reno would have dealt with it better."
The corrupt and incompetent Janet Reno became a heroine to many US women simply from saying she accepted responsibility, responsibility without consequences, its works for the corrupt liberals.
@MayBee, I've been to Santa Cruz. Michael K has a point.
"It seems Janet Napolitano was being too judgmental and so she has already apologized...."
Meaning that she hadn't intended for the truth to be heard so she now must lie and pretend to be contrite, as she was lying and pretending to be interested in the students' concerns about tuition hikes and impoverishing loan debt.
It shows that universities don't like it when the kids storm buildings and take them over when the leaders don't agree with them.
Compare this to their happy submission during the 1960's.
Pull all public funding of higher education post haste.
Also, allow bankrupct but put colleges on the hook for half of it. It'll fuck royally with this incubation pad for litle Leftists and force colleges to be honest with students about debt.
@MayBee, I've been to Santa Cruz. Michael K has a point.
Oh, you've been there, have you?
Jerk.
From wikipedia....
By the time Napolitano left office, the Arizona governor had issued 180 vetoes.
She set the record for vetoes in Arizona.
If a male College President said that he would be lynched.
Shouting down the board isn't a conversation. There was little to be gained by continuing.
Why bother listening since they were just there to protest. How about a conversation? "What options are available to keep tuition stable?"
Then they could have an adult conversation about the options:
1) make taxpayers increase the subsidy they are already providing students
2) cut costs, such as the number of administrators, in order to maintain current tuition levels.
3) use endowment money
Here's what to do--require the schools to be guarantor on all or part of their students' loans. Gradually eliminate the federal loan subsidies. Let students shop more with their pocketbooks, and colleges take a more careful interest in who they admit and how well they prepare them for employment after graduation. With enough competition, schools can find ways to cut costs and offer varying "education packages" (bare bones, luxury packages) depending on what their customers (the students) want and can afford. Let the market do its work.
By insulating people from market forces, the government has done much to inflate the education costs and encourage this mess. And now the dumbest of the students think it's ok to refuse to pay back their loans because their educations sucked, which they certainly must have because a properly educated person would know that it's not the fault of a third party lender that you picked a sucky school and that you suck.
"Why bother listening since they were just there to protest. How about a conversation? "What options are available to keep tuition stable?""
Protesters don't want conversations, they want street theater.
Gee Brando, it's almost like you want the system to work.
Again, not enough potential for graft.
Sorry, try again. ; )
"Who says protest must be polite? Polite protest is protest that is ignored."
If the people you want to speak to leave the room when the conversation isn't polite, then the protest is at that point being ignored and it's superseding the conversation that could have taken place.
No one says protest HAS to be polite, but protesters can miss out on an opportunity to persuade... and they may even have the opposite effect, like the way the Wisconsin protesters seem to have convinced a lot of people that Scott Walker is a strong and trustworthy leader.
Oh, you've been there, have you?
Yep. And I'll stand by what I wrote.
Shouting down the board isn't a conversation. There was little to be gained by continuing.
Agreed. But her "side" started this nonsense of shouting down others as "dialogue" and pursue it happily to people they don't agree with.
Given that I have retired from voting (who can trust either party?), I can take great pleasure in watching shit burn. And watching the university system self-immolate is endlessly amusing.
Then they could have an adult conversation about the options:
1) make taxpayers increase the subsidy they are already providing students
2) cut costs, such as the number of administrators, in order to maintain current tuition levels.
3) use endowment money
I still say allow studen loan relief via bankruptcy and make the college pick up half of the tab.
Until the college feels pain, they won't change.
Big Mike said...
@MayBee, I've been to Santa Cruz. Michael K has a point.
Hard to see his point because it's obscured by his hair-do.
"If the people you want to speak to leave the room when the conversation isn't polite, then the protest is at that point being ignored and it's superseding the conversation that could have taken place."
Protest is not about trying to have a conversation with those in front of you--who are probably are invested in the system you're protesting and therefore will do nothing, even if they condescend to pretend to listen to you--but to obtain media coverage of your protest, in hopes others will be drawn to your cause, (and, if possible, to put pressure on those protested against to make some sort of public response).
Maybee, Michael K and Big Mike:
C'mon, it's just Banana Slugs doing what Banana Slugs do!
Yep. And I'll stand by what I wrote.
Look, it isn't as highly ranked as many of the other UC Schools. But US News has it at 84 of all National Universities, public and private.
It's higher than Auburn, Florida State, University of Oklahoma, Oregon, Colorado, Vermont...just to name a few.
So I know its funny for some people to talk about all the students being stoners, but it isn't true. And especially not welcome when the issue is a bunch of protestors keeping serious students from getting to class.
but protesters can miss out on an opportunity to persuade
I agree. Protestors should arm themselves with facts, not stupid hitler signs.
"Big College' is ripe for the picking: bloated administrative staff, high salaries, untouched endowments, annual financial surpluses...
An eloquent student spokesman or press conference is more effective than blocking streets or interrupting speakers
I don't forget it was Janet Reno who personally approved every expansion of the investigation of President Clinton requested by Ken Starr.
She could've easily and quietly denied him those requests.
if they can waste their tuition money with their protesting hobby
...or on a variety of "studies" courses...
hhardin said...
Janet Reno would have dealt with it better.
3/19/15, 10:47 AM
Kill it with fire?
"Janet Reno would have dealt with it better."
Having them incinerated seems like a bit much, rhhardin.
Brian, that is a threadwinner.
Crap is such a meh word. Could have been coarser, could have been more erudite.
And Big Mike, I don't really think you are a jerk. But that enmaddened me.
Hey! Wait! Didn't the Progs say that "...dissent is the highest form of patriotism."?
Was it the top or bottom-half?
Progressive education costs have a cause similar to progressive medical costs. Both have been sustained through Obamacare-like fiscal policies that redistribute debt, but apparently not widely enough. They are also aided by legal and illegal immigration that exceeds the rate of assimilation and integration. The multi-trillion dollar deficits only serve to exacerbate the devaluation of capital and labor, causing a need for progressive compensation schemes which demand federal government leverage. All of this could have been avoided with adequate planning and "Planning", and witholding the social opiates.
@MayBee, sometimes I am. But it was a weird campus in a beautiful setting (I greatly enjoyed the nearby Redwood State Park). I do a fair amount of research and visit campuses and R&D labs from firms like IBM and Oracle (something I'll miss when I retire). The Department of Computer Science at UCSC has some great people, like Ira Pohl and Martin Abadi, but the campus just felt ... funny. Maybe the knowledge that their athletic teams are called the "Fighting Banana Slugs" contributed to it.
There is another explanation that defies provincialism:
Thai word "Krap" and "Ka"
kráp is used by male speakers, kâ / ká by female speakers, and they are added to the end of a sentence to make it more polite and show respect to the listener.
Perhaps the offense was caused by mispronunciation. Krap.
kráp and kâ can be used by themselves, as a polite way to answer "yes" to a question. ... signify you've heard and understood the statement and are still listening.
Napolitano the trans-Thai-American jingoist. Krap. Ka.
Big Mike- it has a very hippie pedigree. The archives of the Grateful Dead are kept there! And I think they pride themselves on being laid back and "aware". The campus does have a different feeling because the buildings are separated by hills and forests- so it doesn't always feel like a college campus. '
But it isn't a loser school. It's competitive to get into. There are a lot of great students and faculty members there. And I think, like most of the UC schools, it's just getting harder and harder to get in.
@MayBee, hippies are not "aware." And Progressives are spectacularly unaware.
True. But the students aren't hippies. It's like the way Berkeley is filled with hippies and has a hippie pedigree. But obviously, that's a great school.
I think it comes with being a University in Northern California, excluding Stanford.
"Who says protest must be polite? Polite protest is protest that is ignored."
If the people you want to speak to leave the room when the conversation isn't polite, then the protest is at that point being ignored and it's superseding the conversation that could have taken place.
If protesters limited themselves to polite colloquy we'd still be fighting the Vietnam war.
"Protest is not about trying to have a conversation with those in front of you--who are probably are invested in the system you're protesting and therefore will do nothing, even if they condescend to pretend to listen to you--but to obtain media coverage of your protest, in hopes others will be drawn to your cause, (and, if possible, to put pressure on those protested against to make some sort of public response)."
I don't disagree with that, but there are consequences. It's a choice of a form of argument, and it breaks down relationships and drives out people who don't like disorder and incivility.
It can pressure the authorities to give in to your demands but it can also build strength for the authority's position, as the Wisconsin protesters have learned.
Many have alluded to the cost of a college education in this discussion. It will be interesting to follow Mitch Daniels at Purdue to see how he affects change there. One of his first moves was to freeze tuition for two years. That's a great way to start to put the squeeze on some of the out of control expenditures at any school.
I wonder what would happen to tuition if a school were a for profit operation with shareholders to be answered to. I know it's an airy fairy idea, but one can dream. Probably the first thing that would happen would be the Obama administration would attempt to shut it down.
I worked for a short while at a private school and I was astounded at how little knowledge the faculty and administration had of financial realities.
"Does Santa Cruz have any useful classes ? I thought they were all dopers there
Jerk."
No, joke but you are welcome all the same.
"Blogger Fernandinande said...
Big Mike said...
@MayBee, I've been to Santa Cruz. Michael K has a point.
Hard to see his point because it's obscured by his hair-do.
"
Did I offend you somehow asshole ?
It is crap. Thanks Janet. And what is the point of undressing to show the words student debt?
My guess, they are also exhibitionists and like to show off themselves wearing underwear.
But what are they saying about student debt? Eyes, you are in debt. You know this before you sign the paper work. So go to a cheaper college.
I'm sorry it was a joke and I jumped all over you, Michael K.
I think they need more regulations and more administrators to lower the cost of their education, so my suggestion to them is to keep voting Democrat.
Why shouldn't they go into debt for life to furnish the rice bowl for college administrators?
The protestors might have won because they got attention (thanks to the open mike, but whatever works) but they actually lose because when they got attention they had nothing to say. The only one who said something was Napolitano and I see a lot of people agreeing with her. Not the way to do publicity.
To me, there is a fundamental issue at hand, and that is one of language, or rather, a confusion over language.
"To be heard" is one thing; "to get one's way" is another.
I wish it were only a recent development that the latter is supposed to be the definition of the former.
Alas, wishin' ain't gettin'.
What an abomination, that conflation! Full stop.
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