March 15, 2015

Elijah Cummings, the top Democrat on the Benghazi investigating committee, concedes that there is reason for the continuing inquiry.

On "Face the Nation" this morning, at the very end of the interview, Bob Schieffer asked: "Well, are you satisfied that there's anything else to find out about Benghazi?"

Cummings said: "I don't know. We have been at this now, Bob, since May. And I still don't know the scope of what we're looking for. I think there have been eight investigations. They have been done extremely well. And they — I think they have resolved most of the questions."

He could have said — like many Democratic Party partisans — that the matter has been thoroughly investigated and it's nothing more than partisan politics now. But he said "I don't know." Twice. And then he said "they have resolved most of the questions." Most. Most means not all. So clearly there are questions left.

93 comments:

cubanbob said...

It would appear that Cummings is alluding to some very unpleasant revelations are about to come out and that somehow they will make Hillary look very bad and Obama will be portrayed as a 'victim' of her incompetence, mendacity or whatever.

Insufficiently Sensitive said...

That's the most honorable thing I've ever seen from Elijah Cummings. Bravo!

Drago said...

Insufficiently Sensitive: "That's the most honorable thing I've ever seen from Elijah Cummings. Bravo"

Hardly.

Cummings has been firmly in the 'this is a partisan witch hunt'-mode until obama/Jarrett signalled it's totally cool to tee off on Hillary.

Thus, the flip flop.

Hagar said...

The important thing about "Benghazi" is not "Benghazi," but what led up to the attack on Benghazi and the disaster that now prevails along the Mediterranean coast of Africa.

Paul said...

The marching orders are in to take out Hillary. I hope as she goes down in flames she has some real dirt on Obama and damages him too.

averagejoe said...

This investigation would be over by now if dirtbag democrat criminals like Cummings weren't stonewalling the inquiries, obfuscating the information, and trying to cover-up the facts. Clearly they haven't buried the truth deep enough and that makes a crook and liar like Cummings unsure of himself.

Rhythm and Balls said...

Most means not all. So clearly there are questions left.

Yes, like shoes--and ships--and sealing-wax--
And cabbages--and kings--
And why the sea is boiling hot?
And whether pigs have wings?

And was Obama born in Kenya?

And where is his birth certificate?

Such is the Republican approach to knowledge.

Rhythm and Balls said...

And why could it be colder in one part of the world if the rest of the planet is getting hotter?

And how can atmospheric composition affect the climate if humans are allowed by the God of Noah in Genesis to contribute to it?

Questions, questions.

richard mcenroe said...

Cummings is triangulating now that the Obama set have thrown Hillary under the bus.

Rhythm and Balls said...

And how can evolution be true if our rights and human specialness are implanted into embryos at the moment they are fertilized by a sperm?

Questions, questions. They never end. Only an insolent anti-Republican would believe debate to have ended at such crucial times as these. Only a partisan for the other side (not our side) would dare believe that an investigation should ever end. Especially before its political expediency has been exhausted.

richard mcenroe said...

BTW,everybody heard about the rightwing extremist Tea Party member they arrested for the Ferguson cops shootings, right?

Drago said...

R&B: "And how can atmospheric composition affect the climate if humans are allowed by the God of Noah in Genesis to contribute to it?"

LOL

We'll all wait while you pull up the quote from anyone anywhere who claimed the "atmospheric composition" doesn't affect the climate.

BTW, can you present your Climatology credentials?

We've been lectured endlessly to only listen to those who have been credentialed.

Thanks in advance for your next chemically induced spew of bizarre observations/assumptions/mischaracterizations.

Rhythm and Balls said...

BTW, can you present your Climatology credentials?

Yeah - sure. Just as soon as you present credentials on your ability to read scientific research studies and their conclusions.

Drago said...

How did HW Bush commandeer an SR-71 and fly to Paris under Reagan's orders to convince the Ayatollah to hold American citizens hostage longer to ensure a Republican victory in 1980?

Why did the CIA transport all those drugs into the inner cities to decimate the blacks?

Why are GMO's being pushed so hard by corporations when we all know they will cause humans to turn into zombies?

Why did GW Bush coordinate with the Bin Ladens to cause 9-11?

Why is it some people are so stupid they think fire can melt steel?

Such is the democrat version of "received wisdom".

Rhythm and Balls said...

Anyway, the topic here is ending investigations before their political expediency has concluded.

I'm still waiting to find out what grave danger to our Republic was averted by the Starr Report investigations, and findings.

Drago said...

R&B's: "Yeah - sure. Just as soon as you present credentials on your ability to read scientific research studies and their conclusions."

It's easier and much more efficient to say "yeah, I, R&B's simply don't have any".

That advice was free.

Drago said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Rhythm and Balls said...

There goes Dragola again. Changing the subject and goalposts. He just can't help it.

None of those involved investigations dragged out endlessly. But don't tell him that. Like Blutarsky, he's on a roll.

Or he thinks he is.

Drago said...

R&B: "I'm still waiting to find out what grave danger to our Republic was averted by the Starr Report investigations, and findings."

We should ask Janet Reno since she appointed Starr.

Drago said...

R&B: "Changing the subject and goalposts."

From the guy who brought up Mark Foley in a Clinton vs obama thread.

Pharmacologist medicate thyself, I always say.

Rhythm and Balls said...

So Dragola admits that he's incapable of reading studies. Good to know. And it makes a lot of sense.

Anyway, the subject was on how long to extend politically expedient investigations. But the goalposts of that question are too short for him. He can't deal with it. Oh, the non-partisan-ness of the question! How will he handle it!

Drago said...

R&B: " Like Blutarsky, he's on a roll."

Blutarsky is fictional.

Like your observations.

Rhythm and Balls said...

From the guy who brought up Mark Foley in a Clinton vs obama thread.

It was a single-comment, joke, you turd.

But far be it from a Republicant like you to understand the difference between a single joke about one of your side's many sexual deviants and a fixation.

To do so would challenge both your humorlessness and your obsessiveness.

Rhythm and Balls said...

Blutarsky is fictional.

Like your observations.


You should read/watch more fiction.

It would teach you the difference between pondering hypotheticals and obsessing on them.

Drago said...

R&B's: "Anyway, the subject was on how long to extend politically expedient investigations."

LOL

"...politically expedient investigations."

Someone was talking about "moving goalposts" just a minute or 2 ago, R&B's.

You should look into that.

Drago said...

R&B: "You should read/watch more fiction."

I read your postings.

That alone puts me well above the required minimum daily recommended amount of fiction.

Though it's clearly not just about "quantity".

The "quality" of your fictional rants forces me to weight your offerings as 3 to 4 times more delusional than say, a garage or madisonfella.

And in the spirit of "fiction", I'll finish this way: So, you've got that going for you....which is nice.

Alex said...

Rhythm and Balls said...
And how can evolution be true if our rights and human specialness are implanted into embryos at the moment they are fertilized by a sperm?


Leave it to Ritmo to provide a non-sequitor or "LOOK SQUIRREL!!!" so we don't have to think about Hillary's Benghazi scandal.

Ritmo is a loyal DNC operative.

Drago said...

R&B's: "It would teach you the difference between pondering hypotheticals and obsessing on them."

Wow, you really don't like being hoisted on your own petard.

It's a wonder why you create the circumstances for it to happen so frequently.

Rhythm and Balls said...

Leave it to Ritmo to provide a non-sequitor or "LOOK SQUIRREL!!!" so we don't have to think about Hillary's Benghazi scandal.

Hahahahaha. Yes, if anything, there's been not enough THINKING about Libyan cities over-run by rebels under Clinton!

Now put on your thinking caps, Republican children. Think harder about this! No, we've not thought hard enough about it for the past several years.

The question here, is how long Dragola can extend the thread and with how many comments about anything but that question - the question of the post.

Rhythm and Balls said...

Hillary's punishment, a la Alex, should be to think long and hard about what she's done.

Alex said...

R&B - I'm nursing a cold today so I'll have to go easy on you for now.

clint said...

Have to say, I find all of this fascinating. If the Obama camp is opening the attack on the Clinton campaign -- if -- then it seems likely they've got someone else in mind. I can't wait to see who that is.

Drago said...

R&B's: "The question here, is how long Dragola can extend the thread and with how many comments about anything but that question - the question of the post"

LOL

R&B's continues to double down even though his earth bound messiah and minions are now stating quite clearly what we've always known.s

The investigations to date have been handled properly.

The investigations to date have not answered all the questions.

It is now clear that Hillary hid much of her SecofState electronic correspondence.

R&B's, naturally, wants this simply to be a question of the calendar: how long has this gone on? Regardless of what was hidden and for what purpose.

Not surprising, since most of R&B's existence probably revolves around how long precisely the effects of his "little helpers" can be expected to last.

Rhythm and Balls said...

Who, exactly, is my "earth bound messiah"? I wasn't aware I had one.

My stance on Hillary's private account is clear - she might be in big trouble for it. Or should be.

The other post suggests that Obama's buddies might agree. That's fine, as I said in every comment.

Because you're a disingenuous straw man builder, you concluded that my shots at Republicans precludes me from having a problem with HRC, or her email problem.

You can't connect that from my agreement with many others, that this other Libyan shit is stupid to keep extending.

I guess that distinction is too subtle for a heavyweight thinker like you - but it exists.

Anyone honest and intelligent can understand all that, but I predict it won't keep you from continuing to misrepresent me, in all your partisan-obsessive and dunderheaded glory.

Don't let me down now. Show us how you'd like to misrepresent everything I just said.

The only question for you, is how.

Vile Pliskin said...

If there's any validity to the story that Valerie Jarret is signalling to Obama allies that it is time to cut Hillary loose, this could get ugly quickly.

Or it could not.

Drago said...

R&B: "Anyone honest and intelligent can understand all that, but I predict it won't keep you from continuing to misrepresent me, in all your partisan-obsessive and dunderheaded glory."

LOL

R&B's takes time out from misrepresenting some to publicly lament some others who, in his opinion, are misrepresenting him.

Courageously, of course.

Mustn't forget "courageously".

Drago said...

R&B simply won't address the most salient point in evidence at this point regarding Benghazi: That we now know that key communications were hidden/withheld and thus, only a moronic partisan such as himself could argue the investigation has gone on too long.

If the R&B "policy" that the length of time alone is the criteria for ceasing investigations he has, unwittingly to be sure (I sense a theme) has handed the rationale for endless coverups to "run out the clock".

Well played.

I would opt for "red" pill next if I were you. Lets go for some variety.

Drago said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Drago said...

Just to recap:

Later R&B's: "There goes Dragola again. Changing the subject and goalposts. He just can't help it."
3/15/15, 5:07 PM

Earlier R&B's: "And why could it be colder in one part of the world if the rest of the planet is getting hotter?

And how can atmospheric composition affect the climate if humans are allowed by the God of Noah in Genesis to contribute to it?
Questions, questions."
3/15/15, 4:54 PM

Even Earlier R&B's: "And where is his birth certificate?
Such is the Republican approach to knowledge."
3/15/15, 4:53 PM

R&B's. A "stickler" for staying on topic.

And deigning to lecture others on doing the same.

Rhythm and Balls said...

That we now know that key communications were hidden/withheld and thus, only a moronic partisan such as himself could argue the investigation has gone on too long.

The email issue is an over-arching one. If you want to obsess about how it somehow was primarily important to Libya, or done because of it, that just reveals your obsession with Libya.

Anyway, responding to someone pointing out your straw man (misrepresentation) with a tu quoque just shows how bad your application of integrity in logical argumentation really is.

But thanks for neglecting to deny that you've been misrepresenting me, while implying that I deserve to be misrepresented. I'll take that as a possible admission on your part that you either know you're doing it, or don't mind.

Rhythm and Balls said...

Just to recap:

Yes, I understand that you both lack a sense of humor and deny the legitimacy of asking when the time for questions about some item will ever come to an end.

Michael K said...

"Such is the Republican approach to knowledge."

As explained by a hard left ignoramus.

Michael K said...

"Just as soon as you present credentials on your ability to read scientific research studies and their conclusions."

Do not question the credentials of pharmacy technicians.

Rhythm and Balls said...

Michael - Can you show me on the doll where the pharmacy technician touched you?

Skeptical Voter said...

Elijah was is and always will be one slippery weasel. Some of the things he's said and done make a skunk smell good.

But Val Jar And the Lightworker have signaled that it's okay to go after Hillary, who has become the punching bag of the week. So Elijah will step right up and join the parade.

Don't get me wrong. Hillary is no sweet petunia; the stench of corruption, prevarication and all around nastiness hangs over her like the miasma from the Okefenokee Swamp. I wouldn't care if a Democrat partisan steamroller ran over her presidential ambitions.

But Elijah as suddenly ethical White Knight In the immortal words of Ms. Clinton her own nasty self, "That would require the willing suspension of disbelief." That's a bridge just a bit too far for my taste.

Drago said...

Michael K: "Do not question the credentials of pharmacy technicians."

It's well known that pharmacy technicians are conversant in the mathematics of linear and non-linear systems.

Drago said...

R&B's - Can you show me on the doll where the medical doctor touched you and/or performed better than you academically?

The answer to both is, unavoidably, everywhere.

B said...

Bill blames Obama administration for attacking Hillary. Then Cummings does this in contrast to his usual partisan cheerleading. Looks like Hillary really is in under fire from the left.

Rhythm and Balls said...

R&B's - Can you show me on the doll where the medical doctor touched you and/or performed better than you academically?

While you seem to admit that you like misrepresenting people, I'd like to ask, for anyone who cares, where I've ever said I have a problem with medical doctors?

As with any profession, there are dunderheaded medical doctors and decent ones. Pogo will tell you as much.

Michael seems to be acting like a dunderheaded one. Worse, he seems to feel insanely butthurt over being called out for it.

If you had any understanding of professionalism, you'd get that also. But that's just one of the many things that you totally lack.

Drago said...

Later R&B: "If you had any understanding of professionalism, you'd get that also. But that's just one of the many things that you totally lack"

Earlier R&B: "And was Obama born in Kenya?
And where is his birth certificate?
Such is the Republican approach to knowledge"

I wonder if Later R&B has been formally introduced to Earlier R&B?

Rhythm and Balls said...

Surgeons get made fun of by other medical doctors all the time. You're totally missing the point and showing how stupid and out of your element you are. Go watch the original MASH movie and report back with more ignorance on what you failed to learn then.

Drago said...

If Later R&B were to encounter Earlier R&B, would a matter/anti-matter scenario emerge or has R&B so successfully segregated these "personalities" that they could meet and then go merrily on their way.

Questions, questions.

Rhythm and Balls said...

Earlier R&B: "And was Obama born in Kenya?
And where is his birth certificate?
Such is the Republican approach to knowledge"


Only a psychopath thinks this has anything to do with professionalism. Am I now also a professional pundit?

You are totally insane.

Drago said...

R&B: "Go watch the original MASH movie and report back with more ignorance on what you failed to learn then."

No can do white man.

I don't watch movies where they call African-Americans "Spear-chucker".

And I certainly don't approve of doping opposing team members during a competitive event where money is on the line.

Plus, the idea that Donald Sutherlands character played defensive back is really pushing the "fiction" a bit far isn't it?

Plus I disapprove of making your own fly-fishing lures.

Drago said...

R&B: "You are totally insane"

What is the point of "totally" when you are talking "insanity"?

Isn't it more of a threshold thing?

We really shouldn't have to drop back to this remedial level for you.

Drago said...

R&B: "Am I now also a professional pundit?"

"also"?

That would imply you are a professional in at least one other field.

Which is assuming facts not in evidence.

Rhythm and Balls said...

It may be a dated movie (and one that it seems you already watched, anyway), but it gets the point across.

Rhythm and Balls said...

Are you almost done, Dragola?

You really do seem to like extending the insipidity.

Any answer on when the investigation into Ben Ghazi will finally have the answers you need?

Any interest in the post, at all?

Drago said...

Rhythm and Balls: "It may be a dated movie (and one that it seems you already watched, anyway),"

Well, it's a period piece. Being dated is the point.

Drago said...

Rhythm and Balls: "Are you almost done, Dragola?"

Actually, yes.

I've completed what I needed to do workwise in preparation for this week and this little excursion into R&B fantasy land where apparently it's okay for federal officials to hide/obscure/destroy evidence required under federal law should be shrugged off simply because a sufficient number of calendar pages has fallen off the wall.

Drago said...

R&B's: "Any answer on when the investigation into Ben Ghazi will finally have the answers you need?"

A completely upside down question.

We will have the answers to open questions when the dems provide the information they are required by law to provide.

Which they won't.

And you will reward them with a "run out the clock" win because of it.

Only you can answer why that is an acceptable outcome for you.

Rhythm and Balls said...

I've completed what I needed to do workwise in preparation for this week and this little excursion into R&B fantasy land where apparently it's okay for federal officials to hide/obscure/destroy evidence required under federal law should be shrugged off simply because a sufficient number of calendar pages has fallen off the wall.

I actually asked, when you'll conclude that the specific investigation about Ben Ghazi has completed its course.

But now you bring up the problem of calendar pages. I guess that means decades won't be too long. Perhaps it could be continued after HRC's death, even.

At this point, even the limitation of lifespans might not be any object. There will always be windmills that require tilting.

Enjoy this break from your non-work time. You are much more qualified to answer these questions than me, though. More qualified to even ask them, it seems.

Michael K said...

"Surgeons get made fun of by other medical doctors all the time. You're totally missing the point and showing how stupid and out of your element you are. Go watch the original MASH movie and report back with more ignorance on what you failed to learn then."

Actually, MASH, the movie, is one of the very few movies that are fairly realistic. Another is "The Doctor" with William Hurt and yet another is "The Hospital" with George C Scott.

I sometimes show one to my medical students

I haven't seen any about pharmacy technicians.

Roughcoat said...

Caution. Thread hijacker at work.

khesanh0802 said...

Have to go with Insufficiently Sensitive's comment. Cummings has been stonewalling the whole way through this exercise and his answer is uncharacteristically ambivalent. Trouble is coming and the rats are looking for the exit.

madAsHell said...

Drago!
Why in the world would engage such a fool? He's trolling you.

kcom said...

Seriously, dudes?

Jason said...

With 30,000 emails missing, how the fuck could there NOT be some questions left?

Jason said...

How funny that this happened on the Ides of March!

Laslo Spatula said...

12-inch black dildo.

Not just Hillary.


I am Laslo.

Achilles said...

I agree with Rhitmo. We have already learned enough about Benghazi.

1. The administration helped depose Khadafy in an undeclared unauthorized "kinetic action" and our only allies were European countries that were trying to secure oil supplies for corporate cronies. The result of Obama's war for European oil was a failed state.

2. We know it was al quaeda/affiliate that was thriving in the vacuum of the failed state caused by Obama's war for oil. The Obama administration knew immediately after the attack if not during the attack.

2. The administration chose to allow the consulate to be sacked and stopped the armed forces from interfering.

3. After the attack the administration covered for al quaeda and blamed the attack on a US citizen and a video he made. They did this for 2 weeks despite knowing who attacked the embassy and why.

4. Progressives don't care. Progressives are soulless husks. Hillary hid her email on private servers. Obama and hillary lied to your face for 2 weeks about the cause of Benghazi. They lied to the faces of the families of the fallen in benghazi. You accept this and support them still. Support for Obama amongst veterans is near single digits. There are many reasons we hate you. This is just one.

RecChief said...

now that Hillary! doesn't look so inevitable, Elijah changes his tune, huh?

Servant of the people he is.

RecChief said...

Blather and empty wind said...


And was Obama born in Kenya?

And where is his birth certificate?


Oddly enough, I think he was born in the USA. Ergo, I'm not disputing his birth certificate.

Now, how about getting him to release his college records. You don't seal something as innocuous as your college records unless there is something to hide. So what's being hidden? the fact that he didn't get any better grades than W? his financial aid forms? how was his education paid for anyway?

Paul said...

Cummings simply ran out of excuses.

I mean once the lies were stripped off then one has no option to admitting the truth.

And he knows the truth is sooner or later going to come out and the Dems can't hide it anymore.

maninthemiddle said...

Me thinks this is the result of the left wing of the Democratic party determining that Hillary is not for them. Many of those who have defended her to the death are no longer manning the gate with the same fervor.

buwaya puti said...

Cummings is deeply implicated in several other scandals such as that of the IRS, where it seems likely that he was among those exerting influence on the IRS to operate illegally.
The specific and blame-worthy failure of both the administration and the State Department, in the Benghazi matter, leaving aside US-Libyan policy in general, was to consistently refuse security reinforcements to the facility in Benghazi prior to the attack in spite of urgent requests from the ambassador and other informed parties. Problems and delays in the subsequent response are arguable, complicated by fog of war, speed of events, and communications, etc. As usual in these cases it is the role of the men on the spot to use their initiative and make decisions, as they did, and make the best of the situation their superiors have put them in. The Germans have a word for it, "auftragstaktik". This is to be expected in a war. Not every man on the spot will use initiative, but the best will.

But there were specific decisions made, at a high level, about security beforehand, with plenty of time for consideration. At this time it seems that this was decided as a matter of policy. The remaining questions are who decided and why. This was a failure caused by a specific person, in deciding "No".

PB said...

Cummings as a politician knows to give himself some daylight between himself and multiple sinking ships.

Dustin said...

"And was Obama born in Kenya?

And where is his birth certificate?

Such is the Republican approach to knowledge."

No, the Kenyan Birth Certificate thing originated during the 2007 democratic primary, and from Hillary's supporters who were upset at the surging Obama.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/barackobama/8478044/Birther-row-began-with-Hillary-Clinton.html

Absolute fact. Blaming it on the GOP is good trolling.

But it is a great reminder of how dirty Hillary was towards Obama when she thought she was the one with the power.

Terry said...

"And was Obama born in Kenya?
And where is his birth certificate?
Such is the Republican approach to knowledge"

I have no more doubt that Obama was born in the USA than I doubt that Romney was born in the USA. There are people, doctors, nurses, etc., who assisted in the delivery that are still alive. Mixed black-white babies were not common in Hawaii in 1961.
But I actually live in Hawaii. It's a very corrupt state. I also have no doubt that there are people here, born God only knows where, who have official Hawaii birth certificates. People have been caught selling, or forging, virtually every other form of government ID available here. CDL's, building permits, etc.
When Obama laughs at the people who say he was born elsewhere, he really has no idea what the truth is. He can't remember where he was born, of course. It's hearsay to him just as it is to everyone else. If my father was a foreign national, and my mother was a globe-trotting anthropologist, I wouldn't have 100% confidence that my Hawaii birth certificate was real. But whatever.
We do not Obama lies about his early childhood, for whatever reason. He keeps saying that his father left his mother when he was two years old. An example:
"And I say all this as someone who grew up without a father in my own life. He left my family when I was two years old. And while I was lucky to have a wonderful mother and loving grandparents who poured everything they had into me and my sister, I still felt the weight of that absence. It’s something that leaves a hole in a child’s life that no government can fill."
https://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/remarks-president-a-fathers-day-event
Obama was born in August, 1961, and his mother began classes at UW Seattle in Sept. 1961. Obama's father stayed in Hawaii where he attended UH Manoa. No one disputes this. There is no evidence that Obama's mother and father ever lived together as husband and wife.

David said...

I would not read too much into what Cummings says. Clarity of expression is not one of his strengths.

Conserve Liberty said...

George Soros is slapping Hillary around for behaving arrogantly and not taking his orders.

This will be forgotten in a month.

Glen Wishard said...

Hillary Clinton deserves to go down hard and she would do the same to anybody who stood in her way.

That said, this Obama war against Clinton is the most stupendously selfish thing I've ever seen, and I am a close observer of Obama's selfishness.

buwaya puti said...

I suspect there is a rather embarrassing family matter buried with the famous birth certificate. It was an scandalous thing in those days, an unmarried teenage white girl getting in the family way with a black man.
The whole business smells like a coverup of something, but its very unlikely to be that B. Obama was born in Kenya, or whatever. People didn't blithely pop off across the world back then, just to start. It could be merely that a rather more acceptable black man (an intellectual young foreigner) was substituted, on paper, for the real one (suspects have been named) in order to limit controversy and damaged reputations all around.
Whatever the soap opera premise is, it should not reflect on the child, who was of course innocent of the sins of his parents, and the probable duplicity of his grandparents. It may even be that B. Obama only found out the truth fairly recently. The liars in this case are all long dead.
I agree about the corruption in Hawaii. Its long been run by its mafia.

Sammy Finkelman said...

Yes, it is very interesting that he wasn't so partisan. I also noticed this.

This sounds like they discovered something that anyone would have to admit is worthy of note.

It may be something that only the Chaoirman and ranking minority member are fully, or at all, aware of.

Bruce Hayden said...

I suspect there is a rather embarrassing family matter buried with the famous birth certificate. It was an scandalous thing in those days, an unmarried teenage white girl getting in the family way with a black man. The whole business smells like a coverup of something, but its very unlikely to be that B. Obama was born in Kenya, or whatever. People didn't blithely pop off across the world back then, just to start. It could be merely that a rather more acceptable black man (an intellectual young foreigner) was substituted, on paper, for the real one (suspects have been named) in order to limit controversy and damaged reputations all around.

The problem has long been that the birth certificate provided the public is demonstrably fake. Why? We don't know, just as we don't know how well Obama did in college, etc. A lot of his background was intentionally, expensively, and laboriously hidden from the American people.

I do think, at this late date, that the reason that a real birth certificate has never been provided is probably closer to what you are suggesting - his paternity. He doesn't look like the rest of the Obamas at all. I suspect, absent a better option, that his transcripts were locked up to obscure biographic information - possibly that he used a different name, or that he claimed to be foreign. Hopefully, someday, we will find out.

I do find R&B's approach interesting. Something akin to shaming. They never address the fact that the birth certificate provided was fake, or that Obama's transcripts were locked up from the public. Rather, we are supposed to feel embarrassed, or some such thing, because we don't accept the official, progressive, line. But, of course, if we did, we would be mindless progressives like R&B.

And, yes, you can see this sort of thing in his, and others, in regards to AGC/AGW/AGCC/Etc. Somehow, we are supposed to be cowed by the suggestion that we have not proven to him that we can read scientific papers. Or, some such mumbo jumbo. Essentially, that we are too dumb to understand the science.

But, for the most part, most of the people that we deal with on a day to day basis (even me, living by Boulder, home of much of the AGW movement, and a kid in the middle of it in grad school) understand less of the science than do many of the cynics. I always found it interesting that the high priest of Global Warming, AlGore, had received a C- and a D+ in his two, bonehead, science classes in college. John Kerry, his understudy, is, if possible, maybe even dumber about science than AlGore is. And, not even sure if Barack Obama II ever took a single science course in college. Maybe required core classes, but unlikely anything beyond that.

The problem for R&B, and his ilk, is that this sort of shaming is starting to backfire. More and more people recognize it for what it is - a refusal to engage on the merits, and a tacit admission that they either don't have the facts on their side, or aren't smart enough to make a compelling argument with them.

Sammy Finkelman said...

"We should ask Janet Reno since she appointed Starr."

No, she didn't. She established an non-independent counsel and appointed Robert B Fiske, Jr., thus getting all investigations of Bill Clinton under the control of a lawyer whom Bill Clinton could trust, as I told Rush Limbaugh on the air, * with the idea that when a real independent counsel was established, the choice would be ratified by the 3 judges.

But they replaced him with Kenneth Starr.

Unfortunately, his ship was sinfiltrated by informers for Clinton (in his tetsimony Bill Clinton was about to refer to Monica Lewinsky's definition of sex, but caught himself - her testimony had not been released to him and he was not supposed to know it.)

I think also that Samuel Dash
was an informant for Clinton.

* I did get the person whom Fiske had protected from Giuliani a bit mixed up because I was speaking from memory too quickly - that was not a deliberate error. I should have said Robert E. Rubin.= and not Altman.



Danno said...

Blogger clint said...
Have to say, I find all of this fascinating. If the Obama camp is opening the attack on the Clinton campaign -- if -- then it seems likely they've got someone else in mind. I can't wait to see who that is.

They are probably now thinking Moochelle is the one/won!

Just think if the school lunch program is extended to the general population.

Larry Day said...

Rhythm and Balls said...
And how can evolution be true if our rights and human specialness are implanted into embryos at the moment they are fertilized by a sperm?

That's a special kind of stupid, even for you, R&B.

Simon said...

There isn't. It's a witch-hunt plain and simple.

Simon said...

Dustin said...
"No, the Kenyan Birth Certificate thing originated during the 2007 democratic primary, and from Hillary's supporters who were upset at the surging Obama."

Specifically, a Pennsylvania lawyer called Philip Berg. And where did he get the idea? John McCain's enemies had tried to torpedo his nomination by claiming that his birth in the PCZ meant that he wasn't a natural-born citizen, a claim that Pat and I debunked thoroughly in three different posts on Stubborn Facts in (IIRC) late spring of that year. Who knows, maybe Berg read us back then. ;)

Sammy Finkelman said...

Mark Simone says Ed Klein broke his story (which claims the Obama people leaked the e-mail story) last week on his radio show on WOR 710 AM in New York.

The only thing is, it's got to be wrong - he is the recipient of leaks from the Clintons. (unless he's making it up altogether, which is unlikely)

Sammy Finkelman said...

Bruce Hayden said...

The problem has long been that the birth certificate provided the public is demonstrably fake

OK< let's go into this thing again. The birth certicate is not fake. It is new and was issued in 2011, like it says.

https://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/rss_viewer/birth-certificate-long-form.pdf

[Note: This link will become invalid no later than January 20, 2017, but this has been cop[ied otehr places]

See there, on the bottom of the page? It is stamped APR 25 2011.

The original one was probably lost by Obama's family long ago, but it is of no legal worth anyway.

The reason that the original, if Barack Obama had kept it, would be of no legal worth is that nobody knows or keeps track of what it is supposed to look like.

People at the Canadian border, or at state motor vehicle offices, or at the State Department just could not, as a rule, be expected to know or test all of this stuff.

Yes, forensic document examiners could do it. You can detect a forgery like you could with an old painting or an old document.

But the average ordinary person who was using the birth certificate for some routine purpose couldn’t and wouldn’t.

If you wanted to spend a lot of money on this, but that's not going to happen unless it is extremely important.

What counts now is something certified by a state, and that's what you have here, produced by photography.

The document itself, screams – SCREAMS – that it is authentic.

It goes beyond what anyone would think to imagine.

Notice the page is bent a little bit to the left, because this is bound in some book.

More: Barack Obama’s mother first signed her name Ann Dunham Obama. Apparently somebody found fault with that and she squeezed in a “Stanley” above the “Ann”

Everybody knows she didn’t like that male sounding name “Stanley.”

And, if you notice, the date the attendant (doctor) signed it, and date it is stamped – Aug 8, 1961 – is one day later than the date next to Stanley Ann Dunham Obama’s signature, which is 8-7-61

Clearly her original signature was rejected, and she had to put down Stanley, and that caused a delay of one day in the issuance of the birth certificate.

There is also the fact that the race of the father is “African” or the curious naming of Barack Obama as Barack Hussein Obama II instead of Jr.

And if you want to say a brilliant forger thought of this shortly before April 25, 2011 (the date on the certified copy) why didn’t anybody call attenton to it?

President Obama’s press office didn’t even have to point that out – they could have mentioned it to some friendly reporter or blogger.

Why add this brilliant authentic note of his mother first signing her name wrong if you weren’t going to use it?

The reason is they didn’t realize these little points of proof of genuiness themselves.

If something is really genuine, there can be all kinds of arguments you don’t realize.

And others may not pick up on.

But if you work in a fake proof of authenticity, you surely are going to want somebody to notice it, aren’t you? But nobody important did.

Bruce Hayden said...

Sammy - not something that keeps me up at night, but...

You seem to be suggesting that the birth certificate presented to the public was a replacement. Or, something like that. Which might be plausible. The problems with it being the original, in my understanding, is that it is a layered PDF, and in color. Layered PDF means that it wasn't scanned. Or, at least some of the layers weren't scanned. And, birth certificates, including in Hawaii, etc., in 1961 were black and white. Possibly the black and white are reversed from what that hospital was doing in 1961.

As I said above, I am not all that wedded to the narrative that the BC presented was fake, so fire away, and you may be able to convince me to the contrary. Some links, if you have them, might be nice.