December 26, 2014

"The Islamic State is failing at being a state."

"The Islamic State’s vaunted exercise in state-building appears to be crumbling as living conditions deteriorate across the territories under its control, exposing the shortcomings of a group that devotes most of its energies to fighting battles and enforcing strict rules. Services are collapsing, prices are soaring, and medicines are scarce in towns and cities across the 'caliphate' proclaimed in Iraq and Syria by the Islamic State, residents say, belying the group’s boasts that it is delivering a model form of governance for Muslims."

Yeah... well... Woodstock Nation didn't really work out as a nation. Was that even the point? Isn't it more of a state of mind? The actual physical conditions of human health, safety, and welfare can be atrocious, but if you really believe...

"Woodstock Nation" has its own Wikipedia entry:
... More generally, however, the term is used as a catch-all phrase for those individuals of the baby boomer generation in the United States who subscribed to the values of the American counterculture of the 1960s and early 1970s. The term is often interchangeable with hippie, although the latter term is sometimes used as an oath of derision...
Ha ha, I laugh derisively. As if "Woodstock Nation" isn't a term of derision. 

98 comments:

tim in vermont said...

Compare what ISIS is doing to our own Indian Wars and you will not see a difference in savagery between ISIS and the US Army. The difference was that we were left by the rest of the world to finish our task of "nation building."

Both times there was a "manifest destiny" in play. The difference is, that once the European differences had been settled in North America, the Indians no longer had powerful allies the way the opponents of ISIS do in the IS.

So I agree with the lefties that the IS is none of our business, same as the Indian Wars were none of anybody's business.

OK, I am not completely serious above, but it is complicated.

Meade said...

To get back to the warning that I received. You may take it with however many grains of salt that you wish. That the brown Islam that is circulating around us isn't too good. It is suggested that you stay away from that. Of course it's your own trip. So be my guest, but please be advised that there is a warning on that one, ok?

Laslo Spatula said...

Meade said:

"That the brown Islam that is circulating around us isn't too good."

'brown Islam'? You need to check your White Privilege.


I am Laslo.

Meade said...

Sorry, I meant to put that in italics.

The Drill SGT said...

Compare what ISIS is doing to our own Indian Wars and you will not see a difference in savagery between ISIS and the US Army

Sorry, I can't take your slur with the minor walk-back with a small rebuttal without some observations.

The "Army" then as now, is under civilian control. Washington sent the Army to make war on the Indian Nations and gave it the parameters for peace treaties. The Army, by in large kept those treaties. When they were broken, it was Congress and the civilian agents that did most of the breaking and double dealing.

Original Mike said...

""The Islamic State’s vaunted exercise in state-building appears to be crumbling as living conditions deteriorate across the territories under its control,"

So it's like Detroit, then?

furious_a said...

The Tai Ping Rebellion had a monotheistic religious basis, a.blitzkreig-like early success against all,comers and a dismal record at civilian administration.

And a frightful body count. 100,000 dead in one battle at Nanking from hand weapons alone.

Bob Boyd said...

@ tim in vermont
I don't get the conclusion you draw from your comparison.

That's like seeing a mugger beating an old woman and saying, an old woman was mugged and beaten across town the other day and no one was around to help her, so based on that, the situation in front of me is none of my business.
I'm not advocating US intervention necessarily, just saying I don't understand your argument.

Now if you'd said, The last time I tried to stop a mugger from beating an old lady I ended up in the hospital having my best intentions surgically extracted from my rectum, I could understand your reluctance to involve yourself.

tim in vermont said...

Killing off the buffalo to starve the aboriginals who needed them to survive was a tactic Stalin would have approved.

We all know that what happened to the Indians was a holocaust of huge proportions, and there is no point debating it now. I am just saying that nation building is not building schools or roads or hospitals. Those things are infrastructure building, nation building is something far more grisly.

traditionalguy said...

Ah ha. ISIS is our propaganda assigned acronym for Islamic State in Syria, which is sort of the truth if you throw in a few cities and oil fields in NW Iraq.

Their chosen name is ISIL which is the acronym for Islamic State in The Levant. That name is their visionary claim to rule The Levant which is Lebanon, Jordan, and both banks of partitioned Israel and its offshore gas fields.

JAORE said...

Bravo, Original Mike. I needed a laugh this morning.

SomeoneHasToSayIt said...

tim in vermont said...
Compare what ISIS is doing to our own Indian Wars and you will not see a difference in savagery between ISIS and the US Army


You have a big problem with the concept of 'tense', my friend.

ISIS 'is', is present tense. I.e., going on now and including real, alive people to point at, hold accountable, and blame.

"our Indian Wars" is past tense, though you left that (on purpose?) implied. No one alive who did it, no one to hold accountable.

There is no such thing as inherited guilt, despite Christianity's ugly meme on Original Sin, which likely accounts for its unfortunate staying power.

Original Mike said...

"I needed a laugh this morning."

Happy to serve.

tim in vermont said...

@SHTSI

The truth is ugly. We can't take back the past. I don't hate my own species. I was just pointing out that "nation building" is inherently gruesome. I would be willing to bet that China was built through conquest of weaker tribes too, that just about any nation large enough to have an army and a language was built in this manner.

I kind of doubt that a nation could be found that was built by door knockers with leaflets, so to speak.

You man infer whichtever motivation for making this observation you like.

Paul said...

Yea but 'Woodstock Nation' didn't behead people, didn't torture people, didn't kill Christians, didn't.. well they just smoked pot.

ISIS, like most totalitarian regimes, are good at murder and iron fist rule, but don't know shit about how to actually HELP people.

Indian wars? Hahahaha.. no. The Indians were not a homogeneous lot. Hundreds of tribes that warred on each other, kidnapped and held people in slavery, lived in the stone age, and some were past masters at torture.

But the Indians were NOT fanatics who felt it was their way or death. At lest most of them were so busy killing other tribes they actually fell for our 'treaties' shtick.

Many tribes would happily sell out the other tribes thinking 'the enemy of my enemy is my friend'. And thus they were snookered into helping us defeat them all.

But be as it may, the Indian wars are nothing like the war with ISIS in particular and the Muslim fanatics in general.

This war is a war of annihilation, just as was the German/USSR war. And we have better win it.

Gahrie said...

Killing off the buffalo to starve the aboriginals who needed them to survive was a tactic Stalin would have approved.

The buffdalo were killed by hunters for their skin, not by the army to starve indians.

Gahrie said...

Services are collapsing, prices are soaring, and medicines are scarce ..., belying the group’s boasts that it is delivering a model form of governance for Muslims."

These two statements are not in opposition. ISIS desires to create the model Islamic state. The model Islamic state is based on the Koran and the life of Muhammad, which means it must be medieval in nature......that's Islam's biggest problem, it is trapped in medieval thinking with no path to reform. (In fact reform is forbidden on pain of death)

madAsHell said...

That the brown Islam that is circulating around us isn't too good.

Meade channels Wavy Gravy.

William said...

I don't think the European Christians were any less ruthless in their wars of conquest than other ethnic groupings. I do think, however, they feel guiltier about them....Where are the Islamic artists and intellectuals fretting about why their culture is producing such an efflorescence of assholes?

Bob Boyd said...

@Meade
Is this the Brown Islam you're talking about?

http://www.metatube.com/es/videos/109637/Charlie-Brown-Converts-To-Islam-Tries-To-Blow-Up-His-Friends/

William said...

Or maybe that's the point of an Islamic society. It's doesn't exist to create contented citizens who die in bed, but rather religious fanatics who die in battle. The harsh conditions of living in an Islamic state where life is uncertain brings one closer to God.

Gahrie said...

....Where are the Islamic artists and intellectuals fretting about why their culture is producing such an efflorescence of assholes?

Dead or in hiding.

Jason said...

St. Jean de Brebeuf could not be reached for comment.

Seriously, a lot of times the Indian tribes in question got what was coming to them.

Look up "Nine Men's Misery" and the Canadian Martyrs and get back to us.

JSD said...

My nephew spent two years in Ramadi and Fallujah. Every Sunni patriarch there had a bottle of whiskey in the back cupboard. Nobody there wants to live under a caliphate. They just don’t want to be ruled by Shia. We just need to be patient and let things play out.

Michael K said...

"We all know that what happened to the Indians was a holocaust of huge proportions, and there is no point debating it now."

Says the ahistorical kid who went to college after 1960. The Indians had a chance to adapt, especially in the east where the Iroquois had houses with glass in the windows by 1750.

Tradition credits the formation of the confederacy, between 1570 and 1600, to Dekanawidah, born a Huron, who is said to have persuaded Hiawatha, an Onondaga living among Mohawks, to abandon cannibalism and advance “peace, civil authority, righteousness, and the great law” as sanctions for confederation.

They made a huge strategic error by choosing to ally with the French in 1754. Before that they had had good relations with the English colonies although they were situated between the colonies and the area now making up the Midwest.

The Plains Indians were far more primitive and had probably crossed the Bering Strait thousands of years later than the eastern tribes except for the Navajo. They were probably never going to accept civilization.

The history books and college courses have been so politicized that the real history is lost. My daughter's course in "American History since 1877" taught her that the settlers in the west were taught how to farm by the Indians which is utter nonsense. The western Indians, again except a few small tribes like the Navajo, were hunter gatherers and did not farm.

Drill Sgt was right that the treaties were violated by the civilians but that was after many atrocities. By the time Sherman was given the task of clearing the course of the railroad west, the possibility of accommodation with the Indians was gone.

Michael K said...

"The buffdalo were killed by hunters for their skin, not by the army to starve indians."

Much the same thing happened in Florida for Egret feathers as it had become a style for women. The buffalo were also in the way of the railroad after the Civil War and Sherman did not interrupt the buffalo killing as it would further his task of completing the railroad and keep the Indians away from the track which they would attack.

Big Mike said...

Abbie Hoffman? He's been dead for a quarter century. Woodstock nation has been on life support even longer.

ISIS? How do you stop bad men with guns? Good men with guns.

mikee said...

So if ISIS is the equivalent of genocidal US Army of the past, which we must progressively see as horrible, then ISIS deserves to be destroyed root and branch, twig and seed, fruit and bark, just as any prog would suggest we do to the US Army of the past, could we only time travel carrying modern weapons and modern prog irrationality.

CWJ said...

Althouse,

I agree with your take on ISIS. Applying a Western notion of "state" to ISIS is naive, and somewhat embarrassing as serious analysis.

CWJ said...

"...exposing the shortcomings of a group that devotes most of its energies to fighting battles and enforcing strict rules."

This is just silly. It worked pretty well for the original Mohammed and his followers.

Sam L. said...

The IS is not a state because they don't want it to be state-like. Killing is fun; building is a boring pain in the butt.

AReasonableMan said...

Apparently garage has a life. Althouse served up a slow ball down the middle of the plate for him with this one. Maybe we will need a post from her on how many US citizens died from Ebola in order to rouse him from his post-festivities torpor.

Fernandinande said...

Woodcock Nation!

EMD said...

When you "make" nothing but war, most of your non-warriors have little to live for.

YoungHegelian said...

@CWJ,

This is just silly. It worked pretty well for the original Mohammed and his followers.

Actually, the secret of the early Muslim conquests is that they were mostly happy to leave what worked before in place as long as 1) the conquered knew that they were second-class subjects to the Muslims & 2) the non-Muslims paid their jizyah tax to the Muslim authorities.

For centuries after the conquests, Islam was a faith of the cities, while Christianity remained the faith of the countryside (e.g. rural Egypt remained majority Christian until the 18th C).

The reason for the "tolerance" of the original Moslem conquerors was because, unlike their modern imitators, they knew what would happen to the value of their conquests if the functional society was pulled up root & branch.

St. George said...

Steal This Blog

garage mahal said...

Ultra-conservative ideology - espoused by the Taliban, Iran, and ISIS - coupled with religious extremism and crazed intolerance is never a recipe for success.

Ann Althouse said...

"Yea but 'Woodstock Nation' didn't behead people, didn't torture people, didn't kill Christians, didn't.. well they just smoked pot."

I was going to say something like that, but then I thought of Manson. And the fist on the cover of Hoffman's book. The Weathermen. Bill Ayers's 9/11 wish-I'd-done-more op-ed.

damikesc said...

Ultra-conservative ideology - espoused by the Taliban, Iran, and ISIS - coupled with religious extremism and crazed intolerance is never a recipe for success.

They want the government to run people's lives.

Sounds like Progressivism to me.

David said...

Perhaps the Post would like to apply the same standard to certain crucial aspects of American life. Perhaps they could start with urban education, and expand to education overall. Or education generally, where true excellence is confined to a relatively narrow band in our society.

As to ISIS, one of the main functions of a state is to consolidate and project power. Russia in WW II and China at various times in modern history are pretty good examples of states that consolidated and projected power very effectively while doing a very poor job of managing public health and safety within their borders. Ignoring the civilian well being was part of a deliberate (and largely successful) strategy. Even widespread famine within their borders did not prevent these states from projecting disruptive power.

Chuck said...

Every year before the Major League Baseball playoffs begin, the sportswriting staff at the Wall Street Journal evaluate the playoff teams for "the most hateable team." Some of the metrics are obvious. Like which team has the most bloated payroll.

But my favorite metric by far is a negative point for any team that refers to itself as "______ Nation."

garage mahal said...

They want the government to run people's lives.

They want religion to run people's lives. Extreme social conservatives, if you will.

BudBrown said...

Were there ever really any authentic hippies? Or a strict hippyism protocol? I have this positive feeling about hippie now, tho I'm not sure I ever knew any.
Was a real hippie political? Was the summer of love political? Woodstock nation is negative for me now because I think it was a field full of hippie wannabes getting kinda influenced by serious political actors. Tho hey all those bands? In one place. Unbelievable. Interesting that wikipedia the free encyclopedia entry mentions not viet nam.

Drago said...

garage mahal: "Ultra-conservative ideology - espoused by the Taliban, Iran, and ISIS - coupled with religious extremism and crazed intolerance is never a recipe for success"

LOL

Noted rural WI high school scholastic and middle school football "hero" decides it's time to draw parallels between ISIL and western conservatives!

Hilarity ensues!

Hey, remember when ISIL was out clamoring for reducing property taxes and the size of gov't?

Why, it seems like only yesterday.

Thanks garage. You're always good for a laugh!

Drago said...

Next up, garage explains the "staying power" and "success" of the Venezuelan socialist economic model and why the shortage of water, toilet paper, food etc is actually a "good" thing.

Of course, once Venezuela goes completely end over end garage will be along to explain how those socialists were always just like western conservatives.

CWJ said...

YoungHegelian,

Points taken. FWIW, I was thinking primarily of the first generation of Muslim conquest under Mohammed himself, not the method of consolidation thereafter.

YoungHegelian said...

@CWJ,

was thinking primarily of the first generation of Muslim conquest under Mohammed himself

A fair-enough historical distinction to make. I think we're in agreement here.

Drago said...

YoungHegelian: "The reason for the "tolerance" of the original Moslem conquerors was because, unlike their modern imitators, they knew what would happen to the value of their conquests if the functional society was pulled up root & branch."

If only todays leftists could learn this lesson.

It's fascinating that the original Muslim conquerors understood a few basic economic truths some 1400 years ago and yet those same truths elude modern leftists.

Drago said...

YoungHegelian/CWJ, would either of you say that the comparatively "loose" administration of territories under original muslim conqueror oversight was a continuation of the cultural practices of the Babylonian and Persian empires?

garage mahal said...

It's fascinating that the original Muslim conquerors understood a few basic economic truths some 1400 years ago and yet those same truths elude modern leftists.

Wave that ISIS flag high!

Rusty said...

garage mahal said...
They want the government to run people's lives.

They want religion to run people's lives. Extreme social conservatives, if you will.

Do you remember we had a conversation awhile ago where I said that sometimes it's better to just sit on your hands instead of commenting because you have a tendancy to make yourself look like a massive raving moron?
That was one of those times.

garage mahal said...

Sure, Drago, I'll take advice from the guy that worships Muslim Conquests. Maybe you have a quick "What Hitler did right" burn for us.

Jason said...

Well, Hitler had the right idea about the Bolsheviks. I'll give him that.

Drago said...

garage mahal: "Sure, Drago, I'll take advice from the guy that worships Muslim Conquests. Maybe you have a quick "What Hitler did right" burn for us'

LOL

Note to self: garage believes that studying history and making note of historical tactics/strategies = approval of such tactics/strategies.

Garage, when it comes to creation of straw man arguments and putting words in peoples mouths, you really should leave that to madisonfella.

Once again, you've shown that when you go off on your own without adult supervision and/or simple cut and pastes, it simply gets very embarrassing for you.

Still, despite your now quite clearly established limitations, I wish for you a most successful and profitable year.

Drago said...

Jason: "Well, Hitler had the right idea about the Bolsheviks. I'll give him that"

Well, of course Hitler understood the bolsheviks.

It doesn't take much for a follower of national socialist thought to understand fully the intent of the followers of international socialist thought.

And we've already established that garage is fully on board with centralized control of everything that was prevalent in both the nazi and soviet models.

garage mahal said...

Well, Hitler had the right idea about the Bolsheviks. I'll give him that.

Indeed, conservatives have always had a soft spot for right wing fascist despots.

How many were killed/tortured under Pinochet's reign of terror? For that Pinochet received glowing reviews from none other than the National Review.

Jason said...

Garage, are you working overtime to be an idiot? Seriously. If you want to sit at the table with the grown-ups you'd better learn to behave.

Jason said...

HAHAHAHA!! Garage still thinks that Hitler was "right wing."

What a moron.

Par for the course for someone so stupid he couldn't figure out that "Citizens United" is a corporation.

Probably still believes in the Tooth Fairy.

Drago said...

garage: "How many were killed/tortured under Pinochet's reign of terror? For that Pinochet received glowing reviews from none other than the National Review."

LOL

Yes, "glowing", of course!

Hey, don't worry about any links or anything. We get it.

Gee, remember how that right wing Hitler wanted civilians to have the right to keep and bear arms, worship as they pleased, private companies to run their own affairs, private health care options for the populace, etc etc etc?

It's cool that you think so highly today of Hamas 'cuz "Hitler!!!!".

garage mahal said...

Garage, are you working overtime to be an idiot?

Be more specific. Right wingers don't ♥ fascists like Pinochet and Franco?

I mean, you just defended Hitler for fuck's sake.

Michael K said...

"They want religion to run people's lives. Extreme social conservatives, if you will."

So, atheists are "extreme social conservatives ?"

I agree and don't like them any more than you do.

Michael K said...

"How many were killed/tortured under Pinochet's reign of terror? For that Pinochet received glowing reviews from none other than the National Review."

I'd be interested in your sources and the comparison to Cuba. Chile is the only modern economy in South America because of Pinochet. Had Allende succeeded in his coup, we would have had two Cubas.

Drago said...

garage: "Be more specific. Right wingers don't ♥ fascists like Pinochet and Franco?"

LOL

Mr "I offer no specifics for my assertions" wants everyone else to pony up specifics!!

No moron.

Why don't you get specific about all this "love" (and that's what you're calling it) that the "right" supposedly had for Pinochet and Franco.

Don't hold back now. Really dig in there and provide some hard evidence (with links).

Quick note garage: links to Pravda articles or to whatever the latest Maoist publication happens to be will probably be less than well received.

LOL

garage mahal said...

“Sometimes democracy must be bathed in blood.” – Augusto Pinochet

"There is a special awkwardness in the matter of General Pinochet" - William F Buckley

Jason said...

I just defended Hitler?

You think that was "defending Hitler?"

You're even dumber than I thought.

You're also damned lucky dueling is out of style.

Drago said...

garage: "garage mahal said...
“Sometimes democracy must be bathed in blood.” – Augusto Pinochet

"There is a special awkwardness in the matter of General Pinochet" - William F Buckley"

LOL

As Porky Pig might say: "Th th th th that's all folks!!"

Thanks for the biggest laugh yet garage. It's some of your best work to date.

Don't ever change.

CWJ said...

Hi Drago, In answer to your question I think I'd give it a qualified yes.

My gut tells me that all western middle eastern empires were constrained by the bureaucratic and military tools available to them. Foremost among them communication. The Romans exercised a tighter control over time than most, but even with their road building skills control became increasingly decentralized over time. Think also of Egypt and the Nile.

Bottom line, I think not meddling in the local economies of subject people's had more to do with constraints on the conquerors ability to do so, than any great economic insight. In the case of early Islam, the nomadic warrior's seemingly universal disdain for "real work" may have also played a subsidiary role.

garage mahal said...

You think that was "defending Hitler?"

"Well, Hitler had the right idea about the Bolsheviks. I'll give him that."

Hitler believed in an international Jewish conspiracy that bankrolled a “Bolshevik dictatorship” that would lead to the annihilation of Germany.

Drago said...

Example of "The Garage Universal Assertion Proof Method":

In this case, we find garage being a Holocaust denier:

New York Times: "Hitler murdered millions."

garage: "Allegedly. We'll never know."

This "Garage Universal Assertion Proof Method" might just catch on.

LOL

damikesc said...

They want the government to run people's lives.

They want religion to run people's lives. Extreme social conservatives, if you will.


Haven't seen any conservatives calling for theocracy.

Have seen plenty of Progressives calling for the government to run more and more parts of people's lives.

It's Progressivism, like it or not.

Indeed, conservatives have always had a soft spot for right wing fascist despots.

Go ahead and name a single "right wing" policy espoused by the Nazis. They HATED religion ... why, just like Progressives.

n.n said...

The accretion of power happens by design in left-wing regimes (e.g. Marxist ensemble). It happens by chance or conspiracy in a right-wing regime. A left-wing regime will, by design, consolidate capital and control under minority rule. Whereas in right-wing regimes (e.g. America), there is typically an effort to address formation of monopolies, especially of an authoritarian variety.

That said, the Islamic State's mistake was a failure to acknowledge that people prefer to conduct violence in privacy -- out of sight and out of mind. If they would have restricted decapitating their victims to a sanctuary (e.g. clinic), then they would probably be awarded a Nobel Peace Prize for their sensitivity. As it is, they present a stark reminder of our own barbarism, which has been effectively sterilized through rationalization. I wonder if their victims were wholly innocent too.

n.n said...

Another problem with the Islamic State is a failure to recognize that most people are not masochistic. While religious people are often in the majority, a large minority will typically demand an opiate to purchase their loyalty. As the Romans eventually learned, entertainment and coercion are poor substitutes for morality in a society. While providing an opiate, including libertinism, will secure temporary sanctuary, it does not engender a sustainable environment, and progresses to a barbaric state.

YoungHegelian said...

@drago,

...would either of you say that the comparatively "loose" administration of territories under original muslim conqueror oversight was a continuation of the cultural practices of the Babylonian and Persian empires?

I would tend to agree with CWJ's assertions at 2:17PM, but, honestly, I haven't read enough of the histories of the Babylonians & (later Sassanid) Persian empires to even hazard a good guess.

So, even more than usual with blog comments, with my opinions & $6.00 you can get a mocha grande at Starbucks.

Todd Grimson said...

When speaking or writing of "Woodstock Nation" and hippies, it's difficult to get the honest history out there. Say anything less than flattering about Ken Kesey, for instance, and you'll see as many lawyers as if you'd spoken irreverently of L. Ron Hubbard or Joseph Smith.

That's not even to mention the angry claque you will see if you get into the subject of 13 year olds used and abused back in 1967.

Michael K said...

""There is a special awkwardness in the matter of General Pinochet" - William F Buckley"

Not for me. Without Pinochet, Chile would be another Cuba. It is the only modern democracy in south America that is succeeding. Brazil, as usual, is "the country of the future" and has been for 70 years. Argentina has yet to recover from Peron. Peru was partially saved by Fujimori who defeated the Maoist guerrillas I'm sure you supported, but succumbed to the south American disease of corruption.

Even amid his prosecution in 2008 for crimes against humanity relating to his presidency, two-thirds of Peruvians polled voiced approval for his leadership in that period .

Columbia has survived but may be backsliding. Of Venezuela, the less said the better.

ken in tx said...

Here is what I know about so-called right-wing authoritarian dictators. I have lived under two military regimes, Ferdinand Marcos, and a Thai military PM whose name I don't remember, and couldn't pronounce anyway. They are very sensitive to the opinions of the the majority of the public. People there have as much or more 'walking around' liberty as most Americans. They can travel as they please, go to restaurants, start businesses, visit or be prostitutes, have mistresses, buy and use drugs, almost anything except oppose the government. They maintain power by oppressing a small minority of people who oppose them but that the majority of people don't like or don't care about. Because power corrupts, they become so corrupt that the public turns against them and a leftist government takes over.

The leftists try to turn society up-side down, run everybody's life, and ruin the economy. Then there is another coup, and the cycle starts over again. This is the way of most of the world.

By my experience, the Nazis were leftists using authoritarian methods.

JAORE said...

No matter how you view it, Pinochet, was a real lightweight compared with certain communist dictators.

If we are to play the left wingers supported this bad guy - right wingers supported that bad guy, (stupid) game.... it is a pretty uneven contest.

You could stack skulls 10 feet high across Chile before the communists ran out of material.

Edward said...

So much subjectivity.
Does anyone know how ISIS
compares to the worst-case
failed 'State' recognized
as a nation by the U.N. ?

Alex said...

When did ISIS ever state any goals of state-hood? Their only goal is to sever heads.

Alex said...

ISIS, like most totalitarian regimes, are good at murder and iron fist rule, but don't know shit about how to actually HELP people.

Why help people when you can murder them all? ISIS operates on the assumption that it can annihilate every last man, woman and child under its dominion.

Micha Elyi said...

"There is no such thing as inherited guilt, despite Christianity's ugly meme on Original Sin..."
--SomeoneHasToSayIt (9:10 AM)

Someone has to say this: your remark is deeply misleading and ugly. You really don't understand the Christian doctrine of Original Sin. (What is it about people that have not studied the Christian faith that makes 'em think they are brilliant theologians of Christian doctrine? Please explain.)

Perhaps an analogy will help you grasp the concept: because of the financial, uh, setbacks of my great-grandparents they were separated from their valuable real estate holdings in the center of a major southwestern city (property that had been in the family for almost two centuries). As a result, I did not inherit a share in that lost property. Analogously, because of a bad choice of our original parents that cost them their close relationship with God and separation from the Garden, we do not inherit the privileges they lost. You and I have no personal guilt due to Original Sin itself, just as I am not guilty for the long-ago loss of the family fortune.

LesLein987 said...

The American Indians would have eventually wiped out the bison anyway.

Brian Macker said...

I hate to break it to some of you but Hitler was not an atheist. He was in fact a Catholic.

All those atheist quotes attributed to Hitler are similar to those quotes you see by Abe Lincoln discussing the internet in being fake. They are fabrications invented by Francois Genoud that were inserted in his translations rom German to French of the book "Table Talk". The quotes do not exist in the original German book.

The fabricated quotes were then translated to English when the French copy was used for translation instead of the original German.

Brian Macker said...

Micha Elyi, Your comments on original sin do not jibe with the reality of how the various clergy talk about it. They talk about it as an inherited trait, and not of as a lost inheritence.

For example, "Adam, sin entered the world in the form of original sin. Since that time, humans have been cursed with original sin, the results of our first parent’s defiance and rejection of God’s love. Original sin is harbored in every descendant of Adam, the entire human race, from the very moment of conception. It is original sin that weakens the will of man, and creates a tendency in man to embrace evil and selfish passions."

This does not speak of some long lost treasure which was not inherted (and BTW if inherited would need to be divided among 12 billion dead and living people).

It speaks of original sin more as a genetic defect that all men carry from the original carrier of the trait. A defect which is blameworthy on an individual basis.

Tom Billings said...

It is no surprise that an attempt to revive the Caliphate acts with all the contempt for human life and suffering of the Roman Empire of Constantinople. The original Caliphate was a direct arabized copy of that State. The revival has acted as did that State during its 26 years long religious war for survival that preceded the death of Mohammed. That was the Caliphate's model for how to do religious war. On both sides, it was horrible.

Tom Billings said...

It is no surprise that an attempt to revive the Caliphate acts with all the contempt for human life and suffering of the Roman Empire of Constantinople. The original Caliphate was a direct arabized copy of that State. The revival has acted as did that State during its 26 years long religious war for survival that preceded the death of Mohammed. That was the Caliphate's model for how to do religious war. On both sides, it was horrible.It is no surprise that an attempt to revive the Caliphate acts with all the contempt for human life and suffering of the Roman Empire of Constantinople. The original Caliphate was a direct arabized copy of that State. The revival has acted as did that State during its 26 years long religious war for survival that preceded the death of Mohammed. That was the Caliphate's model for how to do religious war. On both sides, it was horrible.

Epiphyte - said...

ISIS is simply practicing salafi sunni islam according to the rules of jihad (which are only applicable at certain times and under certain conditions, but remain mandatory nonetheless).

The Yazidi men were executed and the women (and many children) were turned into sex slaves because ISIS does not consider them "People of The Book" who would otherwise qualify for the pact of dhimmitude under islamic law. Everything - and mean EVERYTHING - they do is in strict conformity with islamic law.

Doctor who Escaped from ISIS: "The most important thing for them was Sharia"

http://mashable.com/2014/09/10/woman-escape-islamic-state/

'Vast Majority of Salafis in SA believe that the conduct of ISIS conforms to Islamic law':

http://muslimstatistics.wordpress.com/2014/08/24/92-of-saudis-believes-that-isis-conforms-to-the-values-of-islam-and-islamic-law-survey/

etbass said...

Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: (Romans 5:12, 14 KJV)

Rusty said...

LesLein987 said...
The American Indians would have eventually wiped out the bison anyway.

No. There simply weren't enough Indians to kill them all. There were millions of bison. So many that the gentle stewards of nature had no problem killing hundreds if not thousands and taking only the choicest pieces and leaving the rest to rot.

Rusty said...


Hitler believed in an international Jewish conspiracy that bankrolled a “Bolshevik dictatorship” that would lead to the annihilation of Germany.

A lot of progressives believed that the Jews were responsible for the worlds problems. Not just Hitler. Progressives still believe Jews are responsible for the worlds problems.

Robert Cook said...

"HAHAHAHA!! Garage still thinks that Hitler was right wing.'"


Well, because he was, of course.

Robert Cook said...

"Had Allende succeeded in his coup," (sic) "we would have had two Cubas."


Salvador Guillermo Allende Gossens (Spanish: [salβaˈðoɾ aˈʝende ˈɣosens]; 26 June 1908 – 11 September 1973) was a Chilean physician and politician, known as the first Marxist to become president of a Latin American country through open elections.[2]

Robert Cook said...

"By my experience, the Nazis were leftists using authoritarian methods."

Your experience has led you to an erroneous conclusion.

There seems to be a (historically recent) delusion among the right (a delusion that has been willfully put forth by right wing propagandists) that, by definition, an authoritarian regime must be "leftist,", as, by definition, (in their own self-serving definition, that is), a right-wing government is and can never be authoritarian or tyrannical.

Is it to laugh.

Robert Cook said...

"Even amid his prosecution in 2008 for crimes against humanity relating to his presidency, two-thirds of Peruvians polled voiced approval for his leadership in that period."

The majority of Germans approved of Hitler to the end. The public's support of any given dictator does not mitigate their murder, torture, or imprisonment of those who dared oppose them openly.

Robert Cook said...

"Haven't seen any conservatives calling for theocracy."

Yep, the calls for theocracy are always from the left.

Hahahaha!

Robert Cook said...



The C.I.A. aided in the coup that brought Pinochet to power. Nixon and Kissinger were fully supportive of (and complicit in)the overthrow of a freely elected head of state for the placement in power of the right-wing dictator Pinochet.

Jason said...

No, dummy.

Socialists are leftists, by definition.

Hitler was a socialist.

It's not that complicated.

Jason said...

Yeah, Hitler was totally Catholic. That's why he disbanded all those Catholic organizations and rounded up and arrested all those Catholic leaders.

Hell, they even had a barracks area set aside for clergy at Dachau, with thousands of inmates,... almost all of them Catholics.

Yep. Hitler was totally a mackerel-snapper.

Where do you dumbasses come up with this?