From a discussion at the Madison alternative newspaper Isthmus about that article about Meade's blog in the nonalternative Madison newspaper the Wisconsin State Journal.
That's at the end of the thread. Higher up, there's a comment from Stu Levitan quoting my salary and snarking that the UW is "underwriting such a creative and valuable endeavor." Stu Levitan is a longtime Madison politico who is currently the Chairman of Madison's Landmarks Commission!
Levitan does get some pushback, notably from someone with the pseudonym Ninja:
Clearly there's some general unhappiness going on here, but that's no excuse for abusing the Redbook for a petty, personal attack (and involving a spouse rather than the actual target on top of that).(The Redbook gives access to all the UW salaries.)
It's hard enough to get sunshine/disclosure/open government policies cemented into law, no need to give opponents ammunition or create a chilling effect.That's not quite fair to children. It's not so much childish as it is evil politics. Levitan is so partisan that he doesn't see how sexist it is to attack a man through his wife. Levitan's wife [per Wikipedia] — in case you want to flip this thing — is Terese L. Berceau, a Democrat who holds a seat in the Wisconsin State Assembly. (In our district!)
This is why we can't have nice shit, America. Because we're children and we'll just break it.
Sunlight, baby!
Posts
94 comments:
Althouse!! You need to Gruber up and get some government gigs to enhance the inflow. There are all manner of important things to consult on where you can get your beak further into the Govt. trough. And you, a lawyer.
There is plenty of money to go around. Money is not a zero sum game. Why must petty jealousy rear its ugly head? Why is jealously one of the awful emotions people feel compelled to share?
Where would they keep Meade's corpse between snowplow drags?
For the record, I want to say I've met our representative to the Wisconsin Assembly, Terese Berceau, and she is smart, competent, and conscientious.
As nice a person as you'd ever want to meet.
I'm not inclined to click through to the link. What did Meade get? And how is it related to snowplows?
Hey, remember that English professor who suggested his students scrape nefarious left-wing sites for hate-filled language?
Me neither.
Birkel:
What you say is right, but it misses the point that class warfare is a favorite meme of the left in building and reinforcing its base. So the fact that money is not a zero sum game has to be ignored in favor of encouraging the little folks to hate.
Clearly there's some general unhappiness going on here, but that's no excuse for abusing the Redbook for a petty, personal attack (and involving a spouse rather than the actual target on top of that)
From what I've seen os WI politics, that's the perfect excuse for a petty, personal attack.
Next time someone's complaining about Walker's broken jobs promise ask them to consider how this stuff looks to those of us out of state with responsibility to relocate private enterprise.
But this is what sunlight does. It's not abuse. It's part of the disinfecting process. Not to worry.
I can't remember where I read this, it could even be here, but they found that salary disclosure from the beginning produced happy workplaces, but salary disclosure imposed on a formerly opaque environment produced much unhappiness as it exposed inequalities, unfairness, etc. With public salaries, there is a good dose of the latter since they are viewed from without and compared/contrasted with the non-public working world.
What always strikes me about the partisan world is how openly gleeful they get to be in their hatreds within a professional setting. I'm not sure if I feel envious or superior. ;)
Ann: This kind of treatment is what you can expect from leaving the plantation (in the eyes of the anointed). You brought it on yourself. Time to retire and move permanently to permanent anonymity somewhere not so cold.
Classic Levitan.
Levitan has been on my radar since about 1979 or so. This is typical for him.
The intellectuals of Madison County on display. You can learn new and better vulgarities from reading them when they are in their jealous mode.
Comments in alternative papers are typically vitriolic. Another reason not to read them.
I can accept some snarky posts but I really dislike nasty comments. It does not speak well for those that make them.
The same holds true for hostile posts on blogs. Anonymity provides too much cover for those with personality disorders.
Cohen's comment, which you quoted, made me think of your post yesterday at 9:39. His motives are so noble and his cause so just that he feels obliged to threaten a college professor and her husband. The main difference between Madison liberals and ISIS appears to be that ISIS has AK-47s.
The main difference between Madison liberals and ISIS appears to be that ISIS has AK-47s.
LOL
I think the town in general would be in better hands if Mr. and Mrs. Levitan retired to Florida. I'm sure they have a nice tidy pension courtesy of the taxpayers.
Also, Stu Levitan, I've been told, is a highly intelligent man who can frequently be strangely obtuse. A long-time Madison personality once described him to me as "the dumbest Smartest Guy In the Room".
Perhaps not in the street, but in the privacy of a clinic. Also, either his wife will have to perform the task or contract for its commission.
Didn't garage just do that yesterday by going on and on about how old Tonette Walker was?
Henry said...
I'm not inclined to click through to the link. What did Meade get? And how is it related to snowplows?
If I recall correctly, the snowplows had to do with SEUI employees honking their horns. Althouse can provide links.
Meade,
Who is is David Cohen? (aka Mr Snowplow Driver)
did Zeus $hit on his foot?
The Isthmus Forum is a snake pit of impotent progressive rage, populated by haters. They printed Vicki McKenna's home address and started a thread encouraging pornographic fantasies involving Miss Vicki. Yes, vintage Stu Levitan — look if ol' Stu isn't the model for the State Journal cartoonist's parody of a Madison liberal. For the record, Stu and Terese Berceau have been divorced for almost 10 years now.
garage mahal said...
"The main difference between Madison liberals and ISIS appears to be that ISIS has AK-47s.
LOL"
Don't forget Madison liberals like all libs in this country are cowards too. They just talk approvingly of fascist activities.
The isthmus trolls are also much closer to the people who defend civilization. ISIS is geographicly seperated from us. If the libs ever got together and carried out their little fantasies it is a couple phone calls and a car ride and the fascist wannabes are done.
My source on the marriage is Wikipedia. Why doesn't that page get edited?
@The Drill SGT : Zeus is far too well-brought up by his owners to ever do such a thing.
"The intellectuals of Madison County on display."
Dane County.
Don't mix us up with that godawful novel about Clint Eastwood and Meryl Streep.
Meade is a better man than I. I would be showing up at 3:00am on a doorstep after an all-day drunk binge wanting to 'talk' and my nose would be running so I'd constantly be wiping it on my sleeve and they're not answering the door I think it's the right door there's a few things that need to be set straight and my car is on their lawn with the engine running I think I knocked over their fence and I am entirely able to be reasonable. Like that.
I am Laslo.
"Who is is David Cohen? (aka Mr Snowplow Driver)"
I don't know. That is an extremely common name, and I wouldn't assume that any given person with that name is the person who wrote that.
You have to join the site as a commenter to click through to see the person's profile, which I think is limited to what that person wants to tell you.
I'm guessing that the snowplow reference ties back to our coverage of the city salt trucks during the 2011 protests — here. We got a genuine death threat for that and called the police. I think "david cohen"'s reference to Meade's corpse is metaphorical and not a real death threat, but it is playing with death threats and it may be deliberately referring to a situation in which we did get a death threat.
Was Clint Eastwood in the book?
The idea of "Meade's corpse" relates to Meade's absence at the forum. Meade used to engage in the debates with people, but his participation was reject and he was excluded. So they are dragging around someone that they know cannot speak for himself there, which is bullying of the most pusillanimous kind.
What is a toad licker?
And who decides if the toad licker is Grade A, the government?
The guy is so obsessed with government control of people's lives that even the toad lickers have to be government certified?
Is there nothing this man wants to regulate?
Prof Althouse I suspect your salary may set you up comfortably in Madison, but it's small potatoes compared to what someone with your talents might make in a coastal city or Chicago practicing law. Heck it's small potatoes compared to what a member of the Los Angeles Fire Department makes with overtime pay. Don't these nit wits know that you're serving at a discount?
Professor, your students are getting the guidance of a first class mind on the cheap. In a big city you would earn more but also have to spend more.
Althouse wrote: The idea of "Meade's corpse" relates to Meade's absence at the forum. Meade used to engage in the debates with people, but his participation was reject and he was excluded. So they are dragging around someone that they know cannot speak for himself there, which is bullying of the most pusillanimous kind.
True, that last phrase. It still sucks.
Stu Levitan is a longtime Madison politico
I clicked through the link and he's quoting Wavy Gravy.
"He feels about 35, and then quoted Wavy Gravy..."
I have no idea who Wavy Gravy is.
"For you children out there, Wavy Gravy was the emcee at Woodstock."
Wow. Okay, none of this is ironic. He's quoting Wavy Gravy. Wavy Gravy said something (at Woodstock?) and he's repeating it to us, 45 years later, for our edification.
I just met the guy and I'm already starting to form a mental image of who he is. He still wants us to know that he was at Woodstock. Or maybe he wasn't at Woodstock, he's just quoting the emcee at Woodstock so we will think he was at Woodstock.
Let me just criticize my culture for a moment. It's idiotic that I know the word Woodstock, that I know that it was a rock concert, that I know many of the bands that played there. It's idiotic that I've seen the Woodstock movie.
Although it's pretty damn funny that Charles Schulz called that silly upside-down bird Woodstock.
Ben and Jerry named an ice cream after Wavy Gravy.
They love Wavy Gravy, apparently. And I know this because "Wavy Gravy" is a horrible, horrible, horrible name for ice cream.
I had no idea that Wavy Gravy was a person. I didn't know that, because I've never picked up the Wavy Gravy pint and read the back. The reason I've never picked up the Wavy Gravy pint and read the back is that Wavy Gravy is a horrible, horrible, horrible name for ice cream.
Anyway, a certain generation feels the need to tell "the children" (I am 47) about Wavy Gravy.
My source on the marriage is Wikipedia. Why doesn't that page get edited?
According to WI Circuit Court Access, case was filed in 2010, and in 2013 there was a Settlement/Stipulation to Dismiss order filed and the case was closed - no divorce.
I would post the link, but I think in the context of this post it would be rude to do so.
Man I miss the phrase "eliminationist rhetoric," don't you? Those were some good times, you know, way back when that was bad.
This post is probably missing a civility bullishit tag, but on the other hand maybe no one expects certain people to speak civily to begin with.
Urban Dictionary
toad licker
A person who loves getting stoned so much that they would do any thing (such as licking a toad; popular in the '60s) to get high.
Yo, that ho is such a toad licker, that she'd lick crack of my balls if i put it there
More stuff Tank knew nothing about.
What is a toad licker?
And who decides if the toad licker is Grade A, the government?
I read 'grade A toad licker' as referring to the quality of the toad, not the licker.
I couldn't find anything on the USDA website. Perhaps it's FDA?
$169K? That buys a lot of toads.
Insufficient detail. I cannot begin to assess Levitan's behavior until I know what kind of shirt he was wearing
Liberal college towns (and I'm assuming Madison shares much with Arcata and Olympia) are chock-a-block with petty, permanently aggrieved douches? Moronic, envious snark like Levitan's is waiting room chit-chat in these sort of towns.
Corpse? Meade died? When are the services? Will there be services? Oh Meade we will miss you. Why is someone still posting under his name?
"More stuff Tank knew nothing about."
You and me too, Tank.
One should not make fun of a man with so many canine friends!
Especially when he has access to brown paper bags and matches!
"In the 2005-06 session, Berceau introduced twenty-five bills related to reproductive rights, consumer protection, workers' rights, health care reform, the protection of stem cell research and the teaching of evolution."
--Wikipedia
Thanks, Tank. I had heard of a boot licker before, even though that is pretty old fashioned.
I thought maybe the guy was insulting Meade as a toad, if that's an insult. In the fairy tales the princess kisses the frog to turn him back into a prince and thought toad licker maybe referred to that.
The insult doesn't really make any sense in the context it was used here.
"Especially when he has access to brown paper bags and matches! "
Now hold on a second. That was a stupid halloween prank I was involved in (alright — I was the leader of) way back when I was around 12 years-old. I learned my lesson.
Thankfully, no person or property was damaged, I and my co-conspirators were arrested (by our parents), and we marched right back over there to "Mr. Grumblebutt's" front door the next day to apologize for our foolishness and offer to clean up any mess that remained.
Man! It's like the internet is some sort of Permanent Record!
In the 1960s Mason Williams (three Grammies for his guitar instrumental Classical Gas) wrote a song about toad suckers:
How 'bout them toad suckers, ain't they clods?
Sittin' there suckin' them green toady frogs!
"Suckin' them hop toads, suckin' them chunkers,
Suckin' them a leapy type, suckin' them flunkers.
Look at them toad suckers, ain't they snappy?
Suckin' them bog frogs sure make's 'em happy!
Them hugger mugger toad suckers, way down south,
Stickin' them sucky toads in they mouth!
How to be a toad sucker, no way to duck it,
Get yourself a toad, rear back, and suck it!"
Sucking or licking toads probably sounds like a good idea after you've dropped a little peyote. Later, when you stop puking, you must feel really happy!
The grading process for toad licking is a holistic one that does take race and gender into account for purposes of building a more diverse toad licking community, but does not use them as determinative factors.
Toad licking is not permitted at public schools, due to a fear that children who are allergic to toads or saliva, or any combination of the two, might be injured or offended.
The sexes of the toad involved are unknown, since such an inquiry would be intolerably micro-aggressive.
There is zero tolerance for hate-licking or toad bullying.
OK, The Bridges of Danelaw County. That is also the East Anglian home of Cambridge and of the Great Puritan Migration to Massachusetts Bay Colony fleeing King Charles and his Archbishop Laud. It also happens to be the cultural roots of Madison.
Is using the Redbook for this a form of doxing (or "doxxing", another form of the spelling I found while discovering what it meant)?
For the record, I want to say I've met our representative to the Wisconsin Assembly, Terese Berceau, and she is smart, competent, and conscientious.
As nice a person as you'd ever want to meet.
....bless her heart.
- Krumhorn
Why do liberals- and Progressives especially - use so much eliminationist rhetoric? What is it about Progressivism that I so ugly and murderous?
I'm curious to know what counts as "bullying" (another candidate for the list of words to ban) in the Althouse comments section.
As a veteran of the flamewars on Usenet, I find nothing bullying in comment sections.
You either engage or you don't. Your choice. I recognize that most of the people who post inflammatory comments from either side of the aisle probably (most likely) would not do so in person.
Toad licker.
"birkel" is a long term project. You can't expect someone raised by wolves to fit into civilized society overnight. Give him time.
Also, as for "doxing", that has also occurred here.
It has? Do you mean here at Althouse's blog?
Reads like the comments on Althouse blog. Isthmus must feed a different pack of trolls.
It's kinda cute how 2 or 3 comments in a thread is all it takes for Althouser's to label everyone in Dane County as hate-filled and violent. Almost as cute as how Ann constantly uses one picture of an alleged protester with a Nazi sign as a symbol of the entire movement.
Guess you have to do what you have to do, because that Amazon portal won't click itself.
class warfare is a favorite meme of the left in building and reinforcing its base
Not just the left, Republicans are heavily vested in that tactic as well. Look at how Mary Burke was constantly attacked by the GOP for being a millionaire, as well as the resentment stirred up towards teachers and government workers over their pay and benefits ever since Walker has been in the Governor's office.
Who is is David Cohen? (aka Mr Snowplow Driver)
He's obviously obsessed with both our hostess and Sarah Palin. I rather imagine that each of them are a far more interesting and vibrant woman than Cohen can find to mate with. The small-peckered have to live with that problem.
He's not living with it well.
- Krumhorn
Still no examples.
If it's so laughable, as you say, then the examples should be very, very, very easy to produce, no?
Well? We're waiting.
I'd say the progressive lynch mobbers at the Isthmus are making any angry commenters here look like Amish socialites.
This is why I miss Crack. The Althouse commentariat has such a limp, insensate cadre of Lefties these days. They offer no substance so there can be no debate.
And they whine like bitches...
"So when Althouse herself uses the word "bullying" to describe the treatment of Meade over at the Isthmus it's different than someone using the term here? Also, as for "doxing", that has also occurred here. If one wants to throw stones, one shouldn't live in a glass house. I enjoy Althouse's writing and I like Meade, but to complain about Meade's bullying at the Isthmus, while allowing the same behavior here is hypocritical, maybe just careless."
You're not comparing comparable levels. I maintain a blog that has a comments section, as does Isthmus. I am not all the commenters, just the person that maintains the forum. I can delete comments, if I see things that I think should be deleted and whatever I delete is deleted according to a standard that reflects my respect for free speech and open debate.
I am not being hypocritical, because I am not saying the Isthmus should close the forum or delete everyone who writes something I am criticizing. But I do criticize them for BANNING Meade, which they did because he irritated some of the other commenter.
I am criticizing the individual comments over there, such as the one by Stu Levitan. By the same token, I'm critical of some of the comments here. But I don't delete comments on that basis, and in fact I REPRINTED abusive comments on the front page.
So I absolutely do not see how you can find me hypocritical here. You need to work through the parallels much more closely.
On the doxxing business, I have deleted things that have been called to my attention that do this. But do not imagine that I can see all this stuff when it happens. There are hundreds of comments every day.
this blog's comments section wouldn't have such a bad reputation for incivility
That's the first time I've heard that. Is that just the opinion at the Isthmus? If so, "The little fucker deserved what he got. And yes, his wife is a Grade A toad licker" sort of diminishes taking any opinions from Isthmus seriously.
Freedom of speech/expression sure is a real bitch for some, isn't it?
I think if commenters who are chronic bullyers and doxxers are reined in, in a consistent manner, this blog's comments section wouldn't have such a bad reputation for incivility.
I certainly don't agree that the comment section of this blog has that reputation. It is the internet, after all, where anonymous posters roam freely off the leash. The inappropriate remarks I see here are not typical of the usual flow of commentary, and the offenders usually get called out by others.
It's pretty much a fun place.
- Krumhorn
Only from the left come this kind of vitriol.
Bullying, my ass. The definition has been altered to include criticism, mockery, ridicule, teasing, jeering or basically anything that offends.
Garage Mahal is a guy that knows the real meaning of bully and he knows that what happens here is not that. He may be a leftie but he is a man who has lived in the real world.
There are these gigantic toads in Australia, and they are toxic. If you eat them you'll die, but if you just lick them, you get high. So, people were licking them, and as I recall the Australians made it illegal. Drop that toad!
I agree with Michael, above.
Don't mix us up with that godawful novel about Clint Eastwood and Meryl Streep
Perfect!
Badinage is not bullying.
If you don't like a little verbal roughhousing, the web seems an odd place to spend your time. Aren't there a couple of Jane Austin novels you have been promising yourself you would re-read?
Michael: "Bullying, my ass. The definition has been altered to include criticism, mockery, ridicule, teasing, jeering or basically anything that offends."
Michael, stop dancing around it. The left has redefined "bullying" and "incivility" and "hate" and everything else under the sun to mean mere disagreement with leftist policies.
Which is to be expected and is why every leftist governmental "experiment" inevitably, unavoidably, ends up with thought crimes, hate speech, etc.
In my dreams Meade protects me from the SpiderDragon. Meade is wearing chain mail over his rocket-girls shirt and what the hell am I saying I just started to write but then lost my train of thought picturing Meade in chain mail and yes that means chain mail Speedos and the Banana people are coming.
I am Laslo.
Madison has landmarks? But... cows move...
"@The Drill SGT : Zeus is far too well-brought up by his owners to ever do such a thing."
(Slips his copy of Bulfinch's Mythology under the cushion and tries to act casual...)
"It's "civility bullshit" for me, but not for thee. Why would one expect better treatment at the Isthmus than what Althouse allows for her commenters here? Seriously, no one see anything wrong with this approach?"
Hey, you aren't even familiar enough with this blog to know what my "civility bullshit" tag refers to. Do the background work first, and then frame intelligent, informed questions. You haven't done that. Seriously, that's what I see is wrong here.
Meade said...
I agree with Michael, above.
I agree with Meade agreeing with Michael.
"Dr Samuel Johnson is right about Olson Johnson's being right."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3NaQxUEfxt0
Have we gone past metabullying to parabullying yet? I have a horror of being an early adopter...
That is disgusting, and I am sorry. But there's always one, probably with mental problems.
But still, I am sorry for the vitriol directed at both of you nice folks.
Ann's whining worked. The bullying language that her and Meade found to be hurtful and abusive was scrubbed from the Isthmus site.
And it looks like a LOT of comments on this thread were also scrubbed. Seeing which ones were removed and what was allowed to remain is very interesting. Is also interesting to see Ann responding to comments that she decided weren't allowed on her blog.
Very interesting indeed.
I cached all the comments I deleted from this thread. If anyone needs a copy of their deleted comment, email me using your real name and I will send it to you. We want to discourage the back-and-forth insults, etc., which tend to crowd out the more interesting comments and the comments that address the original post by A.
If Isthmus cleaned up comments in that tread at the Daily Page Forum, I suspect it was most likely due to David Blaska's latest post on his excellent blog, Bring It.
David is a very influential, humorous, knowledgable, and smart pundit and blogger.
No, it might be because the Isthmus is under new ownership. The new owners are good people, I know this first hand.
I also hit the logo at Isthmuks Forum to object to the David Cohen comment. Also, very correct about Stu Levitan being "the dumbest Smartest Guy In the Room." Everything he needed to know was decided by his last bong hit in 1969.
Well Isthmus is offically circling the wagons. At first they started deleting innocuous posts to the "Meade's blog" topic and have now locked it. When queried on the stealth deleting - they deleted that topic too.
Ain't no sunshine at Isthmus. Bdog out.
"When queried on the stealth deleting - they deleted that topic too."
Queried in their "Comments on Isthmus & isthmus.com" section? Wow — that's some heavy wagon-circling!
Don't they have terms of service that bar abuse? Not that selective deletion is justified by that TOS.
The forum is full of abuse, and what's bad is leaving some obvious abusers while taking out others, especially when it's so egregiously based on political perspective.
But I can understand management wishing for some idealized Madison forum topics, like what's your favorite restaurant and so forth. But everything tends to decline toward politics around here... like those nice photographs from the dog park!
People had to get ugly, but at least they think they are pretty. I say "at least" because self-love can be funny. It would be funnier if Meade could get in there and poke some fun, but that makes them grouchy.
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