November 15, 2014

"It’s not a good time to be a pick-up artist, or the sort of bloke who relies on his 'wisdom'..."

Writes Dean Burnett in The Guardian.
On one hand you’ve got Julien Blanc, provoking such a strong backlash with his seminars on using violence to attract women that he’s literally being thrown out of countries.  On the other, you’ve got the Dapper Laughs, with his ITV2 show about how to chat up women being cancelled, along with several live events, following a campaign and footage of him saying some horrific things to a woman at one of his gigs....

Despite their apparent complexity and widespread use, the methods of pick-up artists are largely pseudoscientific nonsense, so what better way to achieve dominance (which is the most important thing, after all) than by using actual science?...
Burnett offers some science based advice, then says "this entire piece is actually an elaborate example of 'negging,' so any pick-up artist who complains is basically admitting their methods don’t work." There's a link on "negging" that goes to this XKCD cartoon:

66 comments:

tim in vermont said...

So is the guy who writes XKCD a woman?

tim in vermont said...

The thing about pickup artist is that the world is overflowing with pussy, even for a beta like myself. Of course a beta is not a gamma. I think that the gammas are the ones who need the help.

Anonymous said...

"You don't sweat much for a fat girl" has always worked reliably for me.
I think it's because it has a positive vibe to it.

EDH said...

Just linked at Instapundit...

Two incidents involving suspicious persons on campus reported (updated)

Update: UW Police Services (UWPS) confirmed that the two incidents involving a tall, Asian, male suspect who approached two female students on campus were cases of an individual being “socially awkward.”

In both incidents the suspect approached the female students and blocked their path. In the first reported situation, the male “grabbed her hand” and said something suggesting he thought she was good looking and that he wanted to talk to her.

During the following days’ incident, the other female student backed away when the suspect attempted to grab her, a similar conversation followed, however, the female student also reported the suspect tried to block her from walking away, and she was forced to run.

Roe said incidents like this have happened in recent history on campus and have been resolved. He said in cases like this one sometimes the suspect involved is “socially awkward and this is their way of trying to meet someone” and other times it is more concerning.

Mark O said...

No one does this better than Obama.

Bob Ellison said...

I once observed on a date that the woman I was with had a healthy appetite. She was very pretty and svelte, and it seemed to me like a mild comment. She seemed offended.

But man, she ate like a horse. A horse.

Fernandinande said...

pseudoscientific nonsense

I checked in with Heartiste, who often refers to scientific papers supporting his ideas; here's the top one:

++
http://heartiste.wordpress.com/category/science-validates-game/
The Origin Of Women’s Love For Jerks?
November 14, 2014 by CH
SCIENCE! has given us a glimpse into the possible origins of the renowned human female mate preference for jerkboys of varying jerkitude.
"Male sexual aggression: What chimps can reveal about people
Male chimpanzees that wage a campaign of sustained aggression against females sire more offspring than their less violent counterparts, new research finds."

++

Nowadays "pseudoscientific" is usually just a shiny word for "leftists don't like it".

Franklin said...

Ooh, is XKCD doing revenge fantasies? Let me try one! So basically you can make the characters react the way you want them to, not the way they actually would?

Sebastian said...

Negging: the pick-up method of Progressive politics.

Meade said...

"But man, she ate like a horse. A horse."

What is not sexy is when she's hung like a horse.

Meade said...

IMHO

Jupiter said...

This from the same source that brings us this useful article;

Five questions for anyone who says “it's not racist to talk about immigration”

Jupiter said...

Meade said...
"But man, she ate like a horse. A horse."

What is not sexy is when she's hung like a horse.

IMHO

Meade, that's 'phobic. I'm not sure what kind of 'phobic, but in the present climate of opinion, I don't think I need to specify. You're 'phobic, dude. Like, get help!

Bob Boyd said...

"What is not sexy is when she's hung like a horse."

Ok, tell us the story.

Paul said...

What a fool. Anybody can learn proven pickup techniques and improve their successes with women. They are not complicated creatures. They only appear so to men who believe the blue pill lies (like the chump in the Guardian) and don't understand female psychology.

Nobody has a more twisted view of what makes women tick than feminists and their male castrati enablers.

Laslo Spatula said...

(Man to woman he does not know at bar): "Your house is on fire."

Woman: "Excuse me?"

Man: "Your house is on fire."

Woman: "Somehow I doubt that..."

Man: "Your house is on fire and you only have time to retrieve one possession. What would it be? You have to act quickly..."

Woman: "I really don't feel like playing games right now."

Man: "And it all burns down. Nothing left."

Woman: (pause) "I'd save my cats."

Man: "You can only retrieve ONE possession."

Woman: "I'm not choosing between my cats."

Man: "Okay, okay: this one time you'll get an exception. You can save all of your cats."

Woman: "That is very generous of you."

Man: "I am a very generous guy."

Woman: "Actually, I'm waiting for a friend to show up..."

Man: "What would your friend save from their burning house?"

Woman: "Uh, I don't really know that..."

Man: If your friend is important to you you should know these things. Might be a good question to ask him."

Woman: "It's a 'her'...

Man: "Does she have cats...?"

Woman: "Three of them."

Man: "Well then --"

Woman: "Yes, yes: she would save her cats."

Man: "See? You know more than you thought you did."

Woman: "So what would YOU save?"

Man: "That's easy."

Woman: "So...""

Man: "I'd save my girlfriend's cats. Obviously."

Woman: "Obviously."

Man: "After all, they are all I have to remember her by."

Woman: "?"

Man: Car accident. Drunk driver. I don't like to talk about it much."

Woman: "I am sorry to hear that."

Man: "She was a special woman."

Woman: "I bet she was."

Man: "She loved her cats, painting, and anal sex."

Woman: "What?"

Man: "My Alicia: she loved her cats, painting, and anal sex."

Woman: "That might be too much information..."

Man: "'Too much information'? Oh -- I get it, I understand..."

Woman: "It's okay, really..."

Man: "It's just that I'm not going to censor her life, what was important to her is what made her 'her'."

Woman: "I can see that; it's just that I'm waiting on my friend, and I don't really know you, so..."

Man: "Don't really know me? You know I'm the kind of guy who would rush into a burning building and save your cats: that's something."

Woman: "Well, thank you, but --"

Man: And I'd like to think I'm getting to know you. Your cats are the most important things in your home. And talking about anal sex makes you uncomfortable."

Woman: "It does not make me uncomfortable, I just choose not to discuss sexual matters with people I barely know..."

Man: "Is your friend more comfortable talking about anal sex?"

Woman: "Look, I don't think I really want to be having this conversation..."

Man: "Look: it's not like we HAVE to have anal sex. I was just saying my deceased girlfriend really loved it, that's all."

Woman: "Well, we certainly are NOT going to be having -- you know--"

Man: "Anal sex. You have a hard time even saying it, I see that."

Woman: "No, that's not it, I just--"

Man: "It would be your choice, that's all I am saying."

Woman: "I think I'd just like to sit here alone and --"

Man: "--and wait for your friend, I know. At least now you will have something to talk about."

Woman: "?"

Laslo Spatula said...

Man: "You'll be telling her about this guy you met, and how the conversation was so strange, burning houses and anal sex--"

Woman: "I don't think we'll be talking about that."

Man: "Ah, but I know you will: I've come to understand you. You'll start talking about anal sex with your friend, and asking her if she -- you know -- has 'done' it, and what it's like, and why do people like to do it: you will be talking about it with your friend, I know it."

Woman: "Look, you are probably a nice guy and all, but --"

Man: "I am a nice guy. (writes phone number on cocktail napkin) My Alicia says -- she 'said', I still have problem with the past tense -- said I was a diamond in the rough."

Woman: "Well, I can see the 'rough' part..."

Man: "See? You made a joke! We're laughing, it's good."

Woman: ----

Man: So here's the deal..."

Woman: Deal"

Man: "Yeah. You don't have to call me --"

Woman" "Thanks for the permission --"

Man: "--unless you and your friend DO talk about anal sex. Then you have to call me."

Woman: "I have to call you."

Man: "Just to say I was right."

Woman: "I told you, we're not going to be talking about anal sex..."

Man: "I know you think that. And I understand: you will talk about anal sex, but you won't want to call --"

Woman: "I won't need to call --"

Man: "I'm just saying, if you discuss anal sex with your friend a call to me would be the honorable thing to do."

Woman: "The honorable thing."

Man: "The honorable thing. Like saving cats from a burning building."

Woman: "I don't think that's necessarily a connection..."

Man: "Well, you can discuss the semantics with your friend."

Woman: "Oh, I think we'll have other things to talk about."

Man: "In that case I guess I don't expect to hear from you."

Woman: "You're probably right about that..."

Man: "We'll see; we'll see..."

Goju said...

Meade....are you speaking from experience?

Jupiter said...

So, about this 'phobic thing. If I form a mental image of two women having sex, I find that, ah, stimulating. I guess you could say I'm OK with that. But I prefer not to think about two men having sex, and when I accidentally encounter such images, which seems to be happening more and more, I find them repugnant. Like, ick!

Now, is this OK? I know it is 'phobic of me to vote against "gay marriage", and that If I am outed as an opponent of gay marriage, I will probably lose my job. That's established, that's where we stand today, even though most of us stand there. The majority of us are bad people, and deserve punishment, right? Got it. But is it still OK to think one guy sticking his dick in another guy's asshole is disgusting? Or am I required to be OK with that too?

Laslo Spatula said...

Note: "The Laslo Method" might not work for everybody.

Meade said...

Bob Boyd said...

"Ok, tell us the story."

Ok, Bob, I will...

It all began years ago when I was preparing for a date. A first date. A first date with the hottest, sexiest, most science-minded chick I had ever met. I knew I would only get one shot and I had to make it count. I needed to impress her with my high intelligence, my accomplishments, my ripped studly torso, and, of course, with my good taste in fashion.

Step #1: Go to closet and pick a shirt.

Meade said...

I'll let Mr. Spatula tell the rest of my story.

SocialllyExtinct said...

That is all pure nonsense. Sigmas are where it's at.

http://theredpillroom.blogspot.com/2013/04/girl-game-stalking-wild-sigma.html

Ann Althouse said...

"pseudoscientific nonsense...I checked in with Heartiste, who often refers to scientific papers supporting his ideas; here's the top one...."

You should click through to the link in my post at "pseudoscientific nonsense." What you are calling "scientific" is precisely what is pseudoscience, specifically the material about apes. I wish you'd read that and come back and say whether you recognize that the chimps-to-humans material is not good science. It's junk.

Laslo Spatula said...

I think my technique is working better on Meade than Althouse.

sean said...

Wow, the two minutes I spent reading the Burnett article is time I'll never get back. The comments here are more amusing.

Meade said...

I will admit, Laslo, your technique almost worked.

Right up until the "Help me! I'm a house! I'm on fire! Who will save my pussy cats?!!!"

You almost had me. At pussy.

Anonymous said...

Only an uncommon talent can take a proposition as indisputable* as "pickup artists are creeps" and make it sound unconvincing.

*However, see the (highly qualified) defense of the manosphere near the end of this long but worthwhile post.

Meade said...

On the Internet, not only does nobody know you're a dog but nobody even knows about your pussy. Cats.

Bob Boyd said...

"You don't sweat much for girl with a record breaking penis." - from 'Meade, The Missing Years'

Meade said...

Chapter 9 from 'Meade, The Missing Years':
"Is that a MUPUS in your pocket or are my batteries just running low?"

tim in vermont said...

chimps-to-humans material is not good science. It's junk.

On account of it doesn't support the feminist fact that we were created by God perfectly equally and alike and that evolution has nothing to say about it!

This is why I say all the time that liberals, feminists, leftists, tree huggers, you name it, don't really believe in evolution in any deep way; they seem to trust in some deeper fairness in the universe.

tim in vermont said...

Evolution is very right-wing. The "invisible hand" of natural selection, the "invisible hand" of the marketplace, all the same concept forcing itself onto reality, whether people who don't like it like it or not.

Laslo Spatula said...

Man (late night, picks up ringing phone): "Hello?"

Woman: "There: I called."

Man: "There: the honorable thing."

Woman: "The honorable thing, done. Now I've got to go --"

Man: "It's strange, you know."

Woman: "What's strange?"

Man: "How people work."

Woman: "I don't think I'm up for a conversation on how people 'work'..."

Man: "What did your friend have to say about anal sex?"

Woman: "That's between me and her..."

Man: "Of course. You don't want to get into all the intimate details..."

Woman: "There were no 'intimate details': we just mentioned it, that's all. It was barely even a part of the conversation..."

Man: Barely even a part of the conversation: I don't think I believe you --"

Woman: "It doesn't matter to me what you believe --"

Man: I'm just saying I bet it was an interesting conversation, that's all."

Woman: "I told you we barely even talked about it."

Laslo Spatula said...

Man: (pause) "Do you think your friend has ever mutually masturbated with someone over the phone?"

Woman: "What?"

Man: "You know what."

Woman: "I don't think that is a conversation to have with you..."

Man: "By asking if your friend has, you probably realize I am really asking if YOU have, right?

Woman: "I --"

Man: "Do you have dildoes?"

Woman: "Okay, I think I am done with this --"

Man: "There's nothing wrong with you having a dildo or two, whatever color you like. It's not like you would save THEM from your burning house instead of your cats..."

Woman: "I am not talking to you about my sex life."

Man: "I thought we were talking about burning houses."

Woman: "I don't even know why I am talking to you--"

Man: "You are talking to me because I am mesmerizing: I am a mesmerizing man."

Woman: "You're pretty full of yourself, aren't you?"

Man: "If you mean by that full of charisma, then I am not full, I am overflowing."

Woman: "If by 'charisma' you mean 'bullshit' then I agree."

Man: "You're gonna owe me one more call, you know."

Woman: "Not this again..."

Man: "If you -- shall we say -- 'experiment' with one of those dildoes in your ass you have to call me."

Woman: "I am NOT putting anything up my ass and I am NOT calling you --"

Man: "We both know that is not true."

Woman: "I don't care about what you 'think' you know --"

Man: "It is inevitable. You can't have had all these conversations without wanting to find out, just a little..."

Woman: "What I do is none of your business --"

Man: "--unless I am Right: then a call is --"

Woman: "--the honorable thing to do."

Man: "Indeed."

Woman: "I really need to go, it's late --"

Man: "-- You'd probably enjoy this conversation more if you were naked."

Woman: "What planet are you on, exactly?"

Man: I'm just saying if you were naked you'd be more in touch with your senses. There could even be tingling."

Woman: "Are you really this creepy?"

Man: "In fact, you could be naked, right now, on the phone, with the tip of a dildo just barely in your ass, and I wouldn't even know."

Woman: "That is SO not what is happening --"

Man: "I could be wrong; I've been wrong before."

Woman: "Oh, you being wrong no doubt happens all the time, I'm sure of THAT."

Man: "So -- IF I am wrong I won't receive a phone call."

"Woman: "I don't think I am EVER going to be calling you again --"

Man: "Okay, okay."

Woman: "Okay then."

Man: "Just remember: the honorable thing."

Woman: "I won't be calling you."

Man: "We'll see; we'll see."

Bob Boyd said...

"I thought you were my blazing comet baby, but my probe has determined that you are just another MUPUS with a...whoa!...a really big harpoon!
Say, what do think of this shirt? Be honest."
- Chapter 9 Flirtation With Science, 'Meade, The Missing Years'

Laslo Spatula said...

People often ask me: Laslo, how can you be so insightful? I would answer, but my answer contains multitudes.

Michael K said...

I am suspicious of this whole theme.

"Those who can't do, teach."

The real pickup artists are too busy getting laid to bother with this stuff.

William said...

Just a philosophical question: which is more attractive on a transsexual--a small, dainty penis or a horse like appendage? ......Laslo's technique could probably work if he looked like Brad Pitt. Of course, pretty much any technique works if you look like Brad Pitt.

rcocean said...

Cartoon is lame. Gender difference: Pickup artists don't care about criticism. They just want to get laid.

Bob Boyd said...

That's why they call him Spatula. He always turns 'em over.

Jupiter said...

"This is why I say all the time that liberals, feminists, leftists, tree huggers, you name it, don't really believe in evolution in any deep way; they seem to trust in some deeper fairness in the universe."

They mostly believe in evolution as a way to not believe in God, or rather, in received religion. But they like to think that it stopped operating around 50,000 years ago, when the deep fairness of the Universe took over. Being alone in the Universe, with evolution staring you in the face, is a pretty scary situation.

Revenant said...

Burnett offers some science based advice, then says "this entire piece is actually an elaborate example of 'negging,' so any pick-up artist who complains is basically admitting their methods don’t work."

I have no opinion on whether PUA methods work or not. They're sleazy and I don't use them.

However, the quoted claim, above, is obvious nonsense. The PUA claim is that those techniques work on *women*, or more specifically single women -- not that they work on PUAs themselves.

sane_voter said...

If Betamax3000 were to join this thread, it would reach critical mass and a black hole would form, swallowing all manner of appendages.

HoodlumDoodlum said...

Whoa whoa whoa, that guy recommends men use emotional abuse and manipulation to get what they want from women. That's so far out of line I don't know where to start--women would never use emotional abuse and manipulation to get what they want from men! What would that even be like; it's unimaginable.

Jupiter said...

"That's so far out of line I don't know where to start--women would never use emotional abuse and manipulation to get what they want from men! What would that even be like; it's unimaginable."

Negging, meet nagging.

Bruce Hayden said...

I have no opinion on whether PUA methods work or not. They're sleazy and I don't use them.

They do seem to work, which is why feminists hate them. Guy in the office next to mine was into this sort of thing a couple of years ago, and we talked about it a lot. I was happy with whom I was with (and still am), and it all seemed a bit dishonest. His life was full of good looking women calling him all day, and he studiously ignoring them until the prescribed number of days had elapsed. Delaying like that is somewhat akin to a neg - they want you more than you want them, but you are interested, which is why you did ultimately call back. Etc.

The funny thing about negs though is that they seem to work better the better looking the woman. Average women get them all the time, and worse, so it doesn't get their blood boiling. 9s and 10s are so used to getting male approval, while often still being insecure, that they often work. (Not always - my partner just tells them that if they don't like what they see, they can just get lost. She just takes adulation of any males, besides me and her sons, grandsons, etc., to be her due).

Anonymous said...

That cartoon is perfect.

The most powerful tool a pick up artist can have against any woman he targets is her belief that his bullshit could never work on her.

I've been thinking about how to talk to my daughter about men and how we manage to manipulate women. She is 13 now and soon she will be the target of these guys.

I think this gives me a good opening. The best people to scam are the ones who think they can't be scammed.

Anonymous said...

Revanant wrote;

"However, the quoted claim, above, is obvious nonsense. The PUA claim is that those techniques work on *women*, or more specifically single women"

Maybe he is a PUA himself and the whole article is to convince women they are too clever to be fooled?

In which case, Barnett is very clever.

Paul said...

"I have no opinion on whether PUA methods work or not. They're sleazy and I don't use them"

Of course they work and there is nothing sleazy about them. It's all about arousing women by engaging in the behavior that they like, that interests and excites them.

Women like to be turned on, but what they say turns them on and what actually does are usually not the same at all. PUAs know this and bypass the woman's facade and play to their biological nature.

Feminists, like all leftists, are at war with human nature. Thus the feminist rage at the PUA community because it's based on empirical reality and trial and error, and it works.

Laslo Spatula said...

sane_voter said...
If Betamax3000 were to join this thread, it would reach critical mass and a black hole would form, swallowing all manner of appendages.

I have actually met Betamax3000 in 'the Real World.' True.

Anonymous said...

Laslo,

Is that like saying Janet Jackson has met Michael Jackson in the real world?

Xmas said...

The proper response to that "retort" is:

"Ahh, I see you minored in Women's Studies. Well, sorry the Patriarchy is keeping you down. Good night."

John Lynch said...

All these pickup artists can enjoy their alpha male divorce.

Or their alpha male alone time.

Or their alpha male dotage with their alpha male ex's and alpha male children who never visit the alpha male nursing home for people who led empty alpha male lives.

Freeman Hunt said...

Do actual alpha males use these techniques? I've never seen it done by any one of them. They don't have to.

(Is there really such a thing as an alpha male? Is that the cave guy that all the other cave guys would follow into a fight? That's how I'm using it. Other people seem to define it as "jerk.")

Anonymous said...

xkcd left out the frame where the sour-faced PUA just glared at everyone a moment, then threw his things down on the ground and left. At which point, the two men at the next table said they would pay for her drinks the rest of the evening, and the waiter said the bar just so happened to give 50% discounts to awesome girls.

Revenant said...

Of course they work and there is nothing sleazy about them.

My apologies -- when I said "I don't care if they work", it must have come out sounding like "please tell me whether you think they work and how much you like them".

madAsHell said...

Feminism in a nutshell.....
Why don't you worship me?

Kirk Parker said...

Laslo is like Betamax + Titus.... on steroids!

Freeman Hunt said...

PUA techniques come off being as cool as a certain famous shirt.

Laslo Spatula said...

Man (late night, picks up ringing phone): "So: the honorable thing?"

Woman: "Not this time."

Man: "Oh?"

Woman: "I called just to tell you you were WRONG."

Man: "I can accept that."

Woman: "You're not as smart as you think you are, you know."

Man: "I can accept that, also. However."

Woman" "No: no 'however...'"

Man: "I will take you at your word, but realize that I am only currently wrong. Time is on my side on this one."

Woman: "Sure: you go with that, if it makes you feel any better."

Man: "So are you naked?"

Woman: "No, of course not. I --"

Man: "Got it. Robe with panties on, no bra."

Woman: "You really have a problem, you know that?"

Man: "Actually, I do know that. I also cry at weddings and the birthday parties of small children. Underneath it all I am really just a sensitive man, in touch with his feelings."

Woman: "What a load of crap."

Man: "You don't cry at the birthday parties of small children? Seeing them happy and carefree and yet knowing they will never be this young and carefree again? How fast it all goes away?"

Woman: "Bullshit."

Laslo Spatula said...

Man: "I think that is the first time I have heard you swear."

Woman: "So? You don't know me, you know..."

Man: "I know you are afraid of anal sex."

Woman: "Not this again..."

Man: "You can't even bring yourself -- in the privacy of your own bedroom -- to simply experiment with a dildo. You don't even trust yourself."

Woman: "I am not having this conversation with you."

Man: "Exactly. You do not have this conversation with anybody."

Woman: "Think what you want: it doesn't matter to me."

Man: "I think everything I want. You could learn from me on that."

Woman: "I don't even know why I am talking to you."

Man: "You are talking to me because -- in your heart of hearts -- you know that I will be the first man you will have anal sex with."

Woman: "Not. Going. To Happen."

Man: "Deep down you know you have had boyfriends who have wanted this and that they didn't even have the guts to tell you. And the idea that you have had boyfriends keep such things away from you makes you wonder if there is something about you that has prevented them from speaking frankly. Like maybe you are some kind of Ice Princess."

Woman: "So you are a psychiatrist now? Is that it?"

Man: "It is why you are calling me."

Woman: "Don't flatter yourself."

Man: "You WANT to talk about such things, but you can only do it in the safety of talking to someone you can keep safely away."

Woman: "I just called to tell you that you were wrong: end of story."

Man: "Okay. okay. So a deal."

Woman: "Of course. There is always a deal, isn't there?"

Man: "That is how the world works."

Woman: (pause) "Alright. So?"

Man: "You don't ever have to talk to me again--"

Woman: "Thank you --"

Man: "But if you ever have anal sex with someone other than me you need to call me."

Woman: "The 'honorable thing' crap."

Man: "Yes, the 'honorable thing' crap."

"Woman: "It is SO not going to happen."
Man: "Just remember: the honorable thing."
Woman: "I won't be calling you, you know."
Man: "We'll see; we'll see."

Laslo Spatula said...

Admit it, people: you don't want this post to end.

Anonymous said...

My theory is laslo = Betamax

tim in vermont said...

Is there really such a thing as an alpha male? ..anymore.

IDK, but there used to be, for 99% of human evolution. Now it comes down to hypergamy. You know, going for the rock star who has the attention of thousands for hours, to give an example.

I don't really care for or approve of PUA tactics, but I have seen them work. I am sure they don't work on every girl, maybe not even most girls. I think they come from deep insecurity, but PUAs admit that from the get go.

The cartoon reminds me of a joke I heard in college. The guy's room-mate walks up to a woman in a bar and says "Fuck me." The girl slaps him. (Girls used to slap guys for stuff like that then.) The guy says, "Boy, you sure get slapped a lot." His room-mate says "Yeah, but I get laid a lot too."

Xmas said...

Tim,

That's the PUA M.O. It is volume along with technique.