November 26, 2014

"Close friends of Darren Wilson have called for the star witness in the Michael Brown shooting to be charged for lying about what he saw."

"They say that [Dorian Johnson] made up the claim that Brown had his hands up which kickstarted the ‘Hands up, don’t shoot’ protest movement."
In his TV interviews Johnson said that Wilson shot Brown in the back at which point he turned round with his hands up saying: ‘I don’t have a gun, stop shooting!’...
If Johnson lied, he did horrible damage. What is the (nonpatronizing) argument for not holding him accountable?

221 comments:

1 – 200 of 221   Newer›   Newest»
eddie willers said...

Fear of the mob.

john_d said...

"What is the (nonpatronizing) argument for not holding him accountable?"

As a law professor, you certainly are aware of all the studies showing how unreliable eyewitness testimony is. Witnesses see what they want to see. I have no difficulty believing, especially after the shock of witnessing his friend shot dead, that he actually believes that is what he saw.

Chef Mojo said...

If he lied, he caused terrible damage.

"If?"

The Drill SGT said...

I don't like the answer, but the answer is both:

prosecutorial discretion and

jury nullification

jimbino said...

The non-patronizing argument for holding him not accountable is that people have historically seen and testified to events that never occurred, like resurrections, assumptions, virgin births, unicorns, talking snakes and donkeys, ghosts and giants, appearances, jacob's ladder and the earth's standing still. If we didn't accept such delusions and deceptions, we probably wouldn't have religion.

Drago said...

It's too difficult to prove that he knowingly lied and/or he actually believes that he saw what he claimed he saw.

Of course, something tells me that this is one of the guys whose testimony "evolved" as he learned more and more about what the physical evidence actually proved.

Drago said...

jimbino: "If we didn't accept such delusions and deceptions, we probably wouldn't have religion."

Or any belief in AGW.

Or any belief in obama.

Or any belief in the "perfectability" of man.

RecChief said...

there is none

jr565 said...

WHen Chris Hayes interviewed him recently he didn't even mention that the forensics dont back up the claim that he was shot in the back or had his hands up. It was blind acceptance of the story since it fit the meme that MSNBC is promoting.
Hayes is a snivelling little bastard.

Drago said...

That Chris Hayes interview was yesterday.

Yesterday.

Like garage the left is simply going to pretend the evidence doesnt exist.

Original Mike said...

"If he lied, he caused terrible damage."

Even if he thought he was telling the truth, the fact that he was doing TV interviews made the terrible damage inevitable. I am not inclined to think well of him.

Brando said...

I believe he was lying, but I doubt it could be proven (as opposed to having faulty recollection).

Greater shame on anyone who took his story at face value.

Birkel said...

I was under the impression "garage mahal" was arguing fuck whitey. I am not sure that meets your criteria, however.

The nicer way to say it is jury nullification, I suppose.

Original Mike said...

Charging him, however, can lead to no good. It's impossible to prove and will inevitably lead to more violence. To what end? It would be nice to think it would deter future false witness, but it won't.

Gahrie said...

1) He knew he was lying, and did it on purpose.

2) What was in it for him to tell the truth? He was an accomplice in a violent robbery and an assault on a police officer that resulted in his partner's death.

3) He should be charged for lying to the police and grand jury, but he won't be. Why create a new martyr, with an instant "Free Darren" movement and comparisons to Mandela.

4) most of the people who claim to believe Darren know he's lying also, but it serves their purpose to lie also.

garage mahal said...

Even if he thought he was telling the truth, the fact that he was doing TV interviews made the terrible damage inevitable. I am not inclined to think well of him.

16 witnesses testified under oath that Brown had his hands up when he was shot. Are they all lying?

Hagar said...

Yes, they are. And the 8 who says he did not are telling the truth.

Drago said...

garage: "16 witnesses testified under oath that Brown had his hands up when he was shot. Are they all lying?"

LOL

Here we go again.

This was just hashed out on another thread.

garage just hits reset on the "Stupid" button and off he goes.

garage mahal said...

Yes, they are. And the 8 who says he did not are telling the truth.

Guess we'll just have to leave it there then!

Anonymous said...

Maybe he just wanted to raze the roof?

Drago said...

"Groundhog Day" garage: "Guess we'll just have to leave it there then."

No, we won't have to.

We can also make use of the all the forensic and medical examiner evidence we have, which shows that the people saying his hands are up are lying or simply wrong.

If you are just joining us, garage has decided to accept his marching orders and will simply begin anew each day/thread pretending that we don't know what we do know.

It's amazing.

Original Mike said...

"16 witnesses testified under oath that Brown had his hands up when he was shot. Are they all lying?""

What does that have to do with what I posted?

Bobber Fleck said...

16 witnesses testified under oath that Brown had his hands up when he was shot. Are they all lying?

The forensic evidence says they are all liars. So much for the content of their character. The content of your character is well known on this board.

jr565 said...

garage mahal wrote:
16 witnesses testified under oath that Brown had his hands up when he was shot. Are they all lying?

Many of them later said they didn't see the actual shooting.

But we have a discrepancy. So, lets go to the forensics. WHat does IT say? Sadly, for you it doesn't say he died with his hands up. Meaning, those who said he had his hands up were either lying or misinformed. But i'd go with lying.

iowan2 said...

Garage, I know I'm wasting key strokes, but,

The forensic evidence all supports the testimony of Officer Wilson.

There is no forensic evidence that supports Johnson.

Skeptical Voter said...

He's an excitable boy.

rcocean said...

I come down the middle on this one.

On One Hand - science.
OTOH, 16 out of 20 people saying stuff.

Seems like pretty much of a tie.

FullMoon said...

John D said:I have no difficulty believing, especially after the shock of witnessing his friend shot dead, that he actually believes that is what he saw.

Watch a few episodes of First 48, just for fun. Pretty much every interview starts with lies. Not your run of the mill high school drama club lies, but real professional Meryl Streepe, Marlon Brando, Quality lies.

The guy was lying and he will never, ever change his story. Eventually he will just say" I don't want to talk about it any more"

rcocean said...

That's why Garage believes God - Eyewitness testimony.

Beorn said...

There is no forensic evidence that supports Johnson.

At this point the facts do not matter to the Left. The bogus version of events has now become an article of faith to be fiercely (and blindly) defended.

Drago said...

FullMoon: "The guy was lying and he will never, ever change his story. Eventually he will just say" I don't want to talk about it any more"

This guy no doubt has a lawyer telling him to stick with the story so we can try to gin up a civil trial and get paid yo!

Drago said...

Beorn: "The bogus version of events has now become an article of faith to be fiercely (and blindly) defended."

Well, to be fair, the left needed another Alger Hiss.

FullMoon said...

Any reason to beleive that the so called" scientists " are not all lying? Any black scientists on that list? Why not? Any reason to think witnesses for Wilsons account have not been paid off by the Tea Party? Prove me wrong, and provide links with pictures.

garage mahal said...

That's why Garage believes God - Eyewitness testimony.

So why don't you gently walk me through the "science" and "forensics" that proves these witnesses were lying, or they mistook what they observed.

So far, I'm not impressed. I think unspoken assumption is: "these witnesses were black and all blacks will lie for each other".

Mark G said...

Prosecutors should charge only the most egregious, bad-faith perjury to avoid chilling witnesses who fear that they will go to jail for telling the truth as they recall it, if their testimony is later rebutted.

garage mahal said...

[I think we're up to 12 people barking "forensics" without even an attempt at an explanation of it]. mccullough aside, he's an honest chap.

Julie said...

I read through a 78 page interview in the GJ. Got to the end, turns out, she was lying. Her lawyer was there and told her to tell the truth. She hadn't seen anything really. IIRC, her brother knew Dorian. She was one of the first people to be on TV that day. So...... That may be a good one to start with reading through.

Hagar said...

Dorian Johnson was Michael Brown's "pilot fish" with a rap sheet as long as your arm, and about as reliable as such vermin usually are.

Prosecuting him for this will serve to keep this going, and it might be better to reel him in on something else. He will be doing something. It's how he makes his living.

Julie said...

I take that back, she saw things, she was filling in the blanks of what she saw with people were telling her to say.

jr565 said...

I mentioned this yesterday. But one of the worst instances of malfeasance from the left was Ezra Klein who wrote:
"Officer Wilson's story is unbelievable. Literally.

http://www.vox.com/2014/11/25/7281165/darren-wilsons-story-side

I have to quote it because the asininity of it is so outrageous. Literally.

I quote:

"What happens next is the most unbelievable moment in the narrative. And so it's probably best that I just quote Wilson's account at length on it.


"I was doing the, just scrambling, trying to get his arms out of my face and him from grabbing me and everything else. He turned to his...if he's at my vehicle, he turned to his left and handed the first subject. He said, "here, take these." He was holding a pack of — several packs of cigarillos which was just, what was stolen from the Market Store was several packs of cigarillos. He said, "here, hold these" and when he did that I grabbed his right arm trying just to control something at that point. Um, as I was holding it, and he came around, he came around with his arm extended, fist made, and went like that straight at my face with his...a full swing from his left hand.

So Brown is punching inside the car. Wilson is scrambling to deflect the blows, to protect his face, to regain control of the situation. And then Brown stops, turns to his left, says to his friend, "Here, hold these," and hands him the cigarillos stolen from Ferguson Market. Then he turns back to Wilson and, with his left hand now freed from holding the contraband goods, throws a haymaker at Wilson.

Every bullshit detector in me went off when I read that passage. Which doesn't mean that it didn't happen exactly the way Wilson describes. But it is, again, hard to imagine. Brown, an 18-year-old kid holding stolen goods, decides to attack a cop and, while attacking him, stops, hands his stolen goods to his friend, and then returns to the beatdown. It reads less like something a human would do and more like a moment meant to connect Brown to the robbery."

This is what Ezra finds so unbelievable.

Terry said...

If Dorian Johnson is to be tried for his lies, why is Mr. Crack Emcee walking the Earth a free man?

Bobber Fleck said...

@Crack

It's science. You wouldn't understand.

Achilles said...

garage mahal said...

Yes, they are. And the 8 who says he did not are telling the truth.

"Guess we'll just have to leave it there then!"

No. What this proves is you and the other progressives are acting in bad faith. When people act in bad faith you treat them accordingly. You have no interest in fixing any of the underlying issues. You are only interested in exploiting the misery and suffering of others for partisan gain.

You shall be treated accordingly. But you have already proven yourself to be a completely amoral fuck on several other threads.

garage mahal said...

It's science. You wouldn't understand.

Okay. Just try it though. You made the claim, not me.

Why is this so hard?

libertariansafetyguy said...

I think immunity if he spills the beans on who got him to lie. Then charge those people with inciting a riot. And then the property and business owners sue Al Sharpton..., er, I mean whomever it was, with a class action lawsuit.

jr565 said...

(cont) Someone then Twittered on Ezra's twitter Feed Darius's testimony where he basically says that in the middle of the fight Michael handed Darius the cigarillos.The literal testimony from Darius corroborates what the cop said.
Here is Darius's testimony:

Johnson said he couldn't hear all of what they were saying but that the two men were "yelling and cussing." He described the two as having angry faces and said neither was trying to calm things down. "Punches were thrown," but it was more a "tug of war and it was very intense, very intense."

Saying Brown was trying to break free, but that Wilson "never fully let Big Mike go," he described how the officer shifted his left grip from Brown's right arm to get "a good grasp" on Brown's shirt. Brown took advantage of the moment to face Johnson and tell him to "grab these, bro" -- referring to the Cigarillos.

In shock, Johnson said, "my hands open to where he could put the rillos in my hand." He knew something needed to be done to calm the situation, but said he could not open his mouth. "I could not speak at that time and the Cigarillos were placed in my hand," and Brown turned back to face the officer, he said.

So, to reiterate Ezra, even Darius is saying that which set off your bullshit detector was actually how it happened. IN the middle of the fight Brown handed the cigarillos to Darius who was shocked that it happened.

Did Ezra really even follow this story at all? My bullshit detector is going off reading about how Ezra's bullshit detector went off. Mine seems to be working better though.

Anonymous said...

Because if you charge him, and don't get a conviction (and it's likely you won't get a conviction, just from jury nullification), race baiters and leftists will use that as a justification for pushing the story

rcocean said...

"So why don't you gently walk me through the "science" and "forensics" that proves these witnesses were lying, or they mistook what they observed. "

Sure. I'll do that when you walk me through all the science that proves evolution and disproves all the critics.

rcocean said...

Better add Global warming to the list.

rcocean said...

Expected response: A Link.

rhhardin said...

Lying in the service of the narrative is not only okay but is the only moral course on the left.

It's political.

Refusing to lie is immoral, in fact. That's how the right is evil.

jr565 said...

Even Worse, than this is that at the bottom of Ezra's article where he calls the story literally unbelievable he has another link that says "Here's where Johnson's testimony corroborates and diverges from Wilsons' account" Which takes you to another Ezra Klein written article.
If you think I'm lying this is the article it links to:
http://www.vox.com/2014/11/25/7287443/dorian-johnson-story

So what does THIS article say?

"But Johnson does semi-corroborate a key moment in Wilson's account. I noted this incredible passage in Wilson's telling earlier:


I was doing the, just scrambling, trying to get his arms out of my face and him from grabbing me and everything else. He turned to his...if he's at my vehicle, he turned to his left and handed the first subject. He said, "here, take these." He was holding a pack of — several packs of cigarillos which was just, what was stolen from the Market Store was several packs of cigarillos. He said, "here, hold these" and when he did that I grabbed his right arm trying just to control something at that point. Um, as I was holding it, and he came around, he came around with his arm extended, fist made, and went like that straight at my face with his...a full swing from his left hand.

The idea that Brown stopped punching Wilson just long enough to hand his contraband to his friend struck me, on first read, as beyond belief. But Johnson backs at least part of that account:


While the officer is grabbing ahold of Big Mike, he kind loses grip around his neck, that's how I knew he had a good grip. He never fully let Big Mike go, now he has a good grasp on his shirt. So now Big Mike's able to turn different angles while he is trying to pull away. And at a point he turned, now we are face-to-face, and he put his hands like, grab these, Bro. And in shock, I'm so not unconsciously, my hands open to where he could put the rillos in my hand.



So Johnson and Wilson agree: there is a moment when Brown turns to Johnson and hands over the stolen cigarillos. But Wilson tells it as Brown freeing his hands to more effectively pummel Wilson, and Johnson tells it as Brown freeing his hands to better escape Wilson."

Yes they agree Ezra, and you would have known that if you bothered to read Darius's testimony or account prior to pulling shit out of your butt and calling it journalism. Your big reveal only reveals that you don't really know the case you are following. Though you are sure the cop is lying. Even though you don't know what Darius actually said. YOu stupid asshole.

Terry said...

Ezra Klein is a type of individual you sometimes find on the left. He has no important accomplishments. He has contributed no new thing to world of ideas, but people on the left think that he is a genius.
Matt Yglesias is another of the same type.

jr565 said...

Oh, and what else is in Ezra's article? The admission from Darius that in fact "Big Mike" did in fact steal the cigarillos. A lot of people were on the internet saying "Na ah. Mike Brown paid for the cigarillos and this is just a right wing smear of Brown. You can clearly see it on the tape!"
So what does Darius actually say? Yep, Brown stole the cigarillos.

"Johnson calls Brown, exclusively, "Big Mike." And he says he only knew him for a few months before the shooting. But though he liked Brown, Johnson's portrayal of him isn't flattering. In fact, his story begins on the morning of the shooting, when Big Mike commits a brazen, bizarre crime that puts Johnson in considerable danger.

Johnson says he ran into Brown on his way to buy some cigarillos from the convenience store. The two men decided to smoke weed together later, so Brown goes with Johnson to get some cigarillos of his own. Only Brown doesn't buy any cigarillos. He steals them — in fact, he steals a lot of them — and then shoves his way past the clerk.

In Johnson's telling, he's shocked. And he's terrified. Brown, he says, "is basically laughing it off, be cool, be calm…but in my head I’m like, I can’t be calm, I can’t be cool, because I know what just happened and we were on camera." Johnson has a daughter. He has a girlfriend. And now he's Brown's accomplice in a robbery — a robbery that was probably caught on a security camera. His friend has put him and his family in danger."

Now, I don't believe that Darius wasn't a willing accomplice to the robbery for a second. But even he admits that YES Brown did rob the store and then push the clerk. He didn't buy shit. Mr. "My hands are my ammunition" put his friend into danger by making him an accomplice to a robbery according to his own friends testimony.

Zeb Quinn said...

Another question is: Why do we have to go to the UK press to find this kind of reporting?

sinz52 said...

As others have pointed out, you can't blindly trust eyewitnesses in the absence of corroborating evidence.

Sincere people have claimed--even under hypnosis--that they were abducted by space aliens from UFOs.

Compared to that, the claim that Brown had his hands in the air is sensible.

Jason said...

What's funny is that Ezra Klein, of all people, thinks he has a "bullshit" detector.

mccullough said...

Because his testimony had no influence on the outcome. The grand jury didn't believe him. So it would be a waste of prosecutorial resources. You can't put everyone in jail who has committed a crime.

chickelit said...

To be charged with lying, Johnson must first be disbelieved. Yet a sizable cohort seems unwilling to even doubt his word because ______.

Drago said...

garage: "Why is this so hard?"

It's not.

For others.

For you? Well, it's pretty clear why that is by now, isn't it?

Beldar said...

Making a false statement under oath, making a false statement knowingly under oath, committing perjury, and committing perjury that can be proved beyond a reasonable doubt to the satisfaction of a unanimous jury in this particular Missouri county — these are all different things. The last one in particular is quite different from the others.

If prosecutors are considering whether to charge any of the witnesses whose testimony before the grand jury was flatly impossible — inconsistent with the undisputed and indisputable physical evidence, for example — my guess is that the last factor was the dispositive one.

Big Mike said...

Just to clarify, this Big Mike is not the late Michael Brown, Jr.

FWIW I got about 1/3 of the way through Klein's article and concluded that he has no personal experience with black youths. Those of us who have, found Wilson's testimony to be all to believable.

Eustace Chilke said...

Shortly after Johnson first told his story there was a local news report that police in Jefferson City had recognized him on television, realizing that there was an outstanding warrant for his arrest there. Johnson was wanted for filing a false police report. I never heard this on any national outlet and never saw it reported but once locally. This was early days, as soon as Johnson made his first television appearance. This would seem to be a significant straw in the wind. But, no.

Drago said...

Big Mike: "FWIW I got about 1/3 of the way through Klein's article and concluded that he has no personal experience with black youths. Those of us who have, found Wilson's testimony to be all to believable."

That can't be.

garage mahal, drawing on his deep experience with the brutha's there on the playing fields of somewheresville WI does not find Wilson's account believable.

Furthermore, garage is drawing on the deep experience of a couple other guys who clearly have been down with the struggle lo these many years: Ezra Klein and Chris Hayes.

I doubt you'll find any more expert testimonial subjects on what might have happened on the streets of Ferguson that night than those 2 Shaft-like characters.

richard mcenroe said...

Democrat President
Democrat AG
Democrat Governor
Democrat County Executive
Democrat Prosecutor
Democrat Police Chief

Hey, you said non-patronizing reasons, not nonpartisan...

Drago said...

Eustace: "I never heard this on any national outlet and never saw it reported but once locally. This was early days, as soon as Johnson made his first television appearance. This would seem to be a significant straw in the wind. But, no."

Here it is: http://www.abc17news.com/news/key-witness-in-ferguson-wanted-in-jefferson-city/27624066

This guy is typical of the "truth tellers" garage is leaning on.

Also, remember, this is the guy who claimed point blank that Brown was shot while running away and with his hands up.

If this guy wasn't lying, he wouldn't be talking.

NotquiteunBuckley said...

The argument is Rashoman.

Or Rashomen.

Or whatever.

Whatever.

Eustace Chilke said...

Yes Drago. That's the local ABC station for Jeff City / Columbia.

richard mcenroe said...

FullMoon...you want pictures of the Tea Party NOT paying off the scientists?

That's not how this works, dearie. That's not how any of this works.

NotquiteunBuckley said...

Many different little jerks don't know whether I mean the film or the reaction.

Rerereaction Rashomon Style.

I spell wrong to test you people and for no other reason.

After triple gggggoolng I double-dog OED it.

Then decide how to toy with your head best.

Ha.

Abdul Abulbul Amir said...

Dorian is black. The prosecutor is a Democrat. Ergo no charge.

FullMoon said...

Drago said...

Big Mike: "FWIW I got about 1/3 of the way through Klein's article and concluded that he has no personal experience with black youths. Those of us who have, found Wilson's testimony to be all to believable."

That can't be.

garage mahal, drawing on his deep experience with the brutha's there on the playing fields of somewheresville WI does not find Wilson's account believable.

Furthermore, garage is drawing on the deep experience of a couple other guys who clearly have been down with the struggle lo these many years: Ezra Klein and Chris Hayes.

I doubt you'll find any more expert testimonial subjects on what might have happened on the streets of Ferguson that night than those 2 Shaft-like characters.


It is unfortunate that reasonably intelligent people who have never been bloodied on the street are unable to imagine what it is like to actually be physically at risk from another person. These people are the first to say" Well ,if it was me, I would have..."

April Apple said...

Why are leftwing prog democrats so afraid of the truth? (this goes for the democrat media complex) Read the grand jury report.

Laslo Spatula said...

What does any of this have to do with seeing Taylor Swift naked?

Laslo Spatula said...

If I saw Taylor Swift naked I might later misidentify the position of her hands. I could see that.

I am Laslo.

garage mahal said...

It seems our forensic experts have left.

gadfly said...

According to some sleuthing done by the crowdsourcing fools over at The Conservative Treehouse - wayback on August 29 - the instigator of the "Hands Up" meme was a black activist from St. Louis named Anthony Shahid. Shahid beat the TV crews to the first identified eyewitnesses, among whom was Mike Brown's accomplice Dorian Johnson.

Johnson was one of several who offered the fake surrender motion tale, but he didn't invent the image - Shahid did.

Brian O'Connor said...

Because . . . Obama!

Michael K said...

"So far, I'm not impressed. I think unspoken assumption is: "these witnesses were black and all blacks will lie for each other".

Since the OJ trial ?

Yup/

oleh said...

In a perjury prosecution the main witness would be the one witness who at great risk to himself stepped forward and contradicted all the lies. Now we want to put him through this. Would discourage future soothsayers.

oleh said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
SomeoneHasToSayIt said...

Johnson (great name for a black guy, by the way) plays one vital role.

As long as he sticks to his story, the race hustlers and the leftist media (but I repeat myself) can claim "conflicting testimony"!!

iowan2 said...

garage:
So why don't you gently walk me through the "science" and "forensics" that proves these witnesses were lying, or they mistook what they observed.

Nice try,not.

What I am saying is. You or anyone else has failed to tie forensic evidence to corroborate their testimony

Compared to,

Wilson,

Whose testimony is verified by the forensic evidence.

In a 'he said-he said' situation, I tend to lean toward the person that has facts to back up their testimony vs unsubstantiated testimony. It is really very simple.

You seem to think it is possible to present evidence to prove the negative.

So is it stupid or intentionaly obtuse? I honestly cant tell (or care)

garage mahal said...

Whose testimony is verified by the forensic evidence.

Still waiting on that.

MaxedOutMama said...

More riots, to be honest. It is very clear that Johnson was lying from the forensic evidence (no bullet wound in back, blood in car, blood spatter trail indicating that Brown was moving at the end).

But no charge will be filed.

Drago said...

garage mahal: "It seems our forensic experts have left."

LOL

You've already demonstrated you don't particularly care for forensic evidence.

Drago said...

garage: "Still waiting on that"

No, you're not.

It's already been released.

You refuse to look.

Not surprising.

Drago said...

garage is showing us the keen intellect that accounts for his stellar academic career.

Anonymous said...

"Guess we'll just have to leave it there then!"

Yep. Just like we have to drop the horseshit about Brown getting shot in the back. No entrance wounds in the back prove rather conclusively that those witnesses were liars. If they had any brains whatsoever they would have known the trajectory of bullets is pretty easy for a forensic expert to determine.

But, hey, "shot in the back!!!" sounds pretty dramatic. It's guaranteed to send tingles up the legs of every SJW in the universe.

FullMoon said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
FullMoon said...

Richard mcenroe said... [hush]​[hide comment]

FullMoon...you want pictures of the Tea Party NOT paying off the scientists?

That's not how this works, dearie. That's not how any of this works.


Yeah, that's what I thought. No facts so you go right to calling me names. Just because you used to be a famous tennis player don't mean you are so smart

Typical......

Anonymous said...

BTW, I had a pretty telling exchange with some leftist on a different site. He accused me of caring more about "white, Republican business owners" whose businesses were trashed on Monday night than about the Gentle Giant.

MSNBC and Daily Kos must not be reporting that most of the businesses which were looted were owned by minorities. They were so excited by the mobs in Guy Fawkes masks giving it to The Man that it would be very inconvenient to do a story featuring the black lady who was weeping because her cake shop had been destroyed. She's clearly not David Koch.

It's telling that this tool simply assumed all the looted businesses were owned by whites. The left thinks blacks aren't small businesspeople. After all, if they're too stupid to get photo IDs, they certainly can't run businesses.

And they call conservatives racists.

rcocean said...

"Lying in the service of the narrative is not only okay but is the only moral course on the left."

It goes back to at least Lenin. "The Bourgeois morality is a mask for Bourgeoisie interests" Or as Trotsky stated " Only that which prepares the final and complete overthrow of Imperialist bestiality is moral and nothing else. The welfare of the Revolution - that is the supreme law."

garage mahal said...

garage is showing us the keen intellect that accounts for his stellar academic career.

Just a backwoods dumb fuck asking incredibly easy questions that people can't answer. I thought I might be flooded with forensic takes from the Althouse Science Panel. As Trooper York would say: Hee.

Drago said...

garage: "Just a backwoods dumb fuck asking incredibly easy questions that people can't answer. I thought I might be flooded with forensic takes from the Althouse Science Panel. As Trooper York would say: Hee."

LOL

You haven't asked a single specific question yet.

You are now demanding answers to supposedly "incredibly easy questions" yet you forgot one thing (and in this context, it's kind of a big thing):

You haven't asked any questions yet.

LOL

You. Are. That. Dumb.

rcocean said...

Gee Garage aren't you a "Backwoods Dumb Fuck"?

Don't you live in some backwater called Wisconsin?

rcocean said...

Garage posing as Mr. Science. But he supports eyewitness testimony over Science.

Which is why he believes in God.

Amen.

Browndog said...

FORENSICS!

HA! Mike Brown was 'gentle giant' and was college bound-

Only conservatards deny science-

Like the scientific facts of man-made global warming, the Big-Bang, the Gay Gene, eggs, milk, and beef are poison, and Fox News watchers have 'smaller brains'.

Fact is, if you don't run out into the road a stop traffic in the name of Michael Brown, you're a denier.

The facts are clear, there is no debate
-BHO

rcocean said...

Lets be honest Garage. You're just another phony, emotion driven Leftist who PRETENDS to believe in science.

Drago said...

Hey garage, what other questions that you haven't asked would you care to get answers to?

Careful now!

Remember, your modus operandi has 2 parts:
1) pretend the forensics evidence doesn't exist

2) pretend you have asked questions that you have not

You now have to navigate some way so as to pretend you have asked "incredibly easy questions" without actually doing so in order to maintain the facade that no forensic evidence exists to support Officer Wilson's case.

It's a sticky wicket, but if any voice-actuated hack can do it, you can!

Drago said...

As we speak garage is desperately poring back over all the posts in this thread so he can pull out the thousands of "incredibly easy questions" he has asked......only to find they are not there.

Alas.

rcocean said...

I don't believe in God - its only eyewitness testimony.

I don't believe in Policeman Wilson - I only believe in eyewitness testimony.

It does not compute! It does not compute!

Steve said...

He was a tool of Al Sharpton and those of hi ilk. Should go after the ring leaders rather than the useful idiots.

RecChief said...

rcocean said...
Gee Garage aren't you a "Backwoods Dumb Fuck"?

Don't you live in some backwater called Wisconsin?


All the cult members think they are the chosen ones.

RecChief said...

rcocean said...
Gee Garage aren't you a "Backwoods Dumb Fuck"?

Don't you live in some backwater called Wisconsin?


All the cult members think they are the chosen ones.

Drago said...

rcocean: "It does not compute! It does not compute!"

It does if you apply Fens Law.

Which always works.

Because it's always right...about the left.

Drago said...

LOL

Garage now has to actually think up all those "incredibly easy questions" that he thought he asked earlier but didn't.

Lets just say it won't be an "incredibly easy" task for him!

garage mahal said...

Garage posing as Mr. Science. But he supports eyewitness testimony over Science.

No you were the poster that claimed science superiority. Do you have something? It's been hours since I last asked.

Browndog said...

richard mcenroe said...

Democrat President
Democrat AG
Democrat Governor
Democrat County Executive
Democrat Prosecutor
Democrat Police Chief


That got worked our earlier on other web-sites. It's probably up on Wikipedia by now-

Those are really republicans, calling themselves democrats. Just like the KKK southern Democrats 'switched' parties.

Science

Drago said...

garage: "No you were the poster that claimed science superiority. Do you have something? It's been hours since I last asked."

LOL

Come ON garage!

Where are all those "incredibly easy questions" you supposedly asked?

Where are they genius?

Do you need a mulligan?

Drago said...

garage: "No you were the poster that claimed science superiority."

LOL

We already know we are superior to you in scientific knowledge...but that doesn't get to the point of answering all of your "incredibly easy questions".

Which were what again?.......

RecChief said...

garage mahal said...
Whose testimony is verified by the forensic evidence.

Still waiting on that.


Hey Zippy, why don't you produce the forensic evidence that backs up your "16 eyewitnesses". It must surely be there, how many autopsies were performed? How about the lab that performed the testing? go ahead, point me in the right direction of the actual evidence that supports your assertion.

Drago said...

It appears that garage has been called away on urgent business.

I'm sure that business involves furious googling for "easy question" regarding the forensics that were released.

Not a moment too soon for our garagie.

Browndog said...

Drago said-


Remember, your modus operandi has 2 parts:


You sell it short. It's 3 parts:

3) Failure to 'correctly' answer a question that was never asked proves you're an idiot, and a science denier!.

Michael K said...

"garage mahal said...
Whose testimony is verified by the forensic evidence.

Still waiting on that."

OK. How about the fingerprints on the gun. The blood on the gun and in the car ?

How about all gunshot wounds in the front?

I'm waiting.

Unknown said...

--Any reason to beleive that the so called" scientists " are not all lying?

You do realize that the Brown family hired their own pathologist don’t you? The prosecutor mentioned that his report was included along with the two other pathology reports.

As for the Garage forensics challenge. I’ll step forward - using that mysterious tool called google.

Here’s one from the lefty New York times placing all the bullet wounds in the front (giving lie to Johnson’s lie about being shot in the back and also supporting Wison’s account of a charging/running posture).

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/18/us/michael-brown-autopsy-shows-he-was-shot-at-least-6-times.html?_r=0

Here’s an ABC report which records that

-- Brown’s DNA was found inside the police car

-- Brown’s DNA was found on Officer Wilson’s gun

http://abcnews.go.com/US/crucial-pieces-evidence-ferguson-grand-jury/story?id=27163048

Gun powder residue on Brown’s hands from a point blank shot.

-----Judy Melinek, a forensic pathologist in San Francisco who reviewed the report for the Post-Dispatch­, said it “supports the fact that this guy is reaching for the gun, if he has gunpowder particulate material in the wound.”----

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/michael-brown-shooting-forensic-evidence-supports-officers-version-of-events-that-sparked-ferguson-riots-9812632.html


When I was listening to the presentation by the prosecutor, I was particularly struck by the timeline of radio calls which provided Wilson a clear description of Brown’s clothing.

-----Officers were told to look for a black male wearing a white T-shirt, running toward the QuikTrip convenience store. Additional information was soon added: the man was wearing a red Cardinals hat, khaki shorts and yellow socks; a second man was with him.----

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/ferguson-police-radio-calls-surface-from-michael-brown-shooting/


Drago said...

Michael K: "OK. How about the fingerprints on the gun. The blood on the gun and in the car ?
How about all gunshot wounds in the front?
I'm waiting."

What's most hilarious is that after falsely claiming to have asked "incredibly easy questions" which garage claimed went unanswered, when challenged he isn't even able to come up with any questions, much less "easy" ones.

garage mahal said...

OK. How about the fingerprints on the gun.

No prints were ever taken on Wilson's gun, even thought Wilson testified Brown momentarily gained control of his gun. He was allowed to scrub up and put his own gun in the evidence bag. Neat trick!

Drago said...

Unknown: "When I was listening to the presentation by the prosecutor, I was particularly struck by the timeline of radio calls which provided Wilson a clear description of Brown’s clothing."

I'm glad you brought that up since it has been an article of faith (yes! another one!) on the left that Wilson had no idea that the Gentle Giant had been involved in a "strong arm" robbery.

Of course, according to Michaels mother, that wasn't Michael in the videotape.

This grubering is reaching epidemic proportions on the left.

Drago said...

garage: "No prints were ever taken on Wilson's gun, even thought Wilson testified Brown momentarily gained control of his gun. He was allowed to scrub up and put his own gun in the evidence bag. Neat trick!"

Neater trick?

Claiming to have asked "incredibly easy questions" when you really didn't.

Kind of a "dumb trick" actually.

Drago said...

garage: ""No prints were ever taken on Wilson's gun, even thought Wilson testified Brown momentarily gained control of his gun."

This is progress of a sort since the lefties at first were denying that Michael Brown was ever leaning inside the police car.

With every comment garage makes he just sinks a little further.

Drago said...

Who's up for a little game of Garage/Carnac the Magnificent?!!

Wherein we will divine the answers to questions that garage has not yet asked!!

Howard said...

Drago: if you can't backup your regurgitation of a Drudge headline in a couple sentences, it's pretty obvious you have no clue how the forensics relates to the testimony. The deflection to all the other limbaugh/fox news anti-science talking points is airhead debate 101.

I am sympathetic to those of you who deny evolution. Because you see no evidence of evolution in yourself, family and friends, it must be difficult the believe the rest of the world outside Bugtussle has left you in the dust.

Now I understand the pathological fascination with the "elites" and "our betters" It must be terrifying. No wonder Abdul Isis Isil keeps you up at night. Surrounded by boogeymen and confused by facts conflicting with your mythology, it's no wonder you need to put down the mud people (vermin).

Drago said...

garage has becoming even more boring than usual.

I think I'll watch the Lakers game.

With any luck the Lakers will win 9 or 10 games this year!!

Way to go Buss family!

Drago said...

Howard attempts a rapid rappel insertion in a valiant attempt to throw the conversation into a tailspin and take it into another direction completely.

Garage thanks you.

To that end he offers up pretty much every caricature of the opposition he desperately needs to believe in to feel good about himself.

I wish him the best of luck.

Good hunting Howard!

RecChief said...

There are some who say that Howard and Garage are Massengill packages in the pharmacy of life, but I reject that notion.

Mostly because if it were true, it would be proof of a war on women.

Drago said...

Howard, while you are here, and since garage is at such a tremendous intellectual disadvantage, perhaps you would deign to offer him your invaluable assistance in "The Great Search For The Missing Incredibly Easy Questions!!!"?

Would that be possible?

Thanks in advance.

Drago said...

Howard: "...mud people..."

Howard has not kept up.

Garage would very much appreciate it if you could refer to our African-American brothers and sisters as "blackys", which is apparently garages preferred term.

Of course, if you are like me, that term strikes one as odd, until you remember that garage has lived in an astonishingly all-white area his whole life.

Again, thanks in advance.

garage mahal said...

By my count Drago has posted 30 times in this thread. Approx half were directed towards me. When do I ask for a restraining order? #Analytics

Drago said...

While we are waiting for Howard and garage to locate the surprisingly difficult to find "incredibly easy questions" (which I think was once a plot line in an Agatha Christie novel), let's review the verbal grenades Howard lobbed into the conversation in a valiant though ill-fated attempt to deflect from the reality of the Michael Brown/Officer Wilson "unpleasantness":

- Drudge
- Limbaugh
- Fox News
- Anti-science
- Evolution
- "Bugtussle" (I have to imagine he means Denver)
- ISIS/ISIL (What IS the obama administration calling them this week?)
- Something blah blah boogeymen (To be honest, I couldn't make heads nor tails out of that)
- Mud People (vermin) (by which I assume Howard meant to imply that I view African-Americans that way, though I'm not familiar with the "mud people" stuff; I am familiar with "Ice People"/"Sun People" though as promulgated by Black Supremacists whom I must assume are supported by Howard).

Well, that's that! Whew.

eddie willers said...

Here's the autopsy report:

Autopsy

Drago said...

garage mahal: "By my count Drago has posted 30 times in this thread. Approx half were directed towards me. When do I ask for a restraining order?"

There must be a restraining order on those "incredibly easy questions" you supposedly asked, otherwise I'm sure you would have posted them.

LOL

Drago said...

garage, while you were painstakingly tallying up the number of my posts on this thread, did you happen to come across all those "incredibly easy questions" you asked earlier?

Thanks

Unknown said...

He was allowed to scrub up and put his own gun in the evidence bag. Neat trick!

Yeah neat trick, but it didn’t get rid of the DNA.

Browndog said...

garage mahal said...

By my count Drago has posted 30 times in this thread. Approx half were directed towards me. When do I ask for a restraining order? #Analytics


@Crack has the forms.

Wait--are you both white? It kinda matters, you'd understand...science, and all.

garage mahal said...

Or, instead of a restraining order, maybe I should start charging rent for my followers? Why is wingnut welfare restricted to the right? The kids tell me it all starts on LinkedIn.

Drago said...

LOL

Garage has gone from demanding answers to non-existent questions to demanding that people stop asking him about the non-existent questions that he thought he had asked!

This is one for the books.

Revenant said...

What is the (nonpatronizing) argument for not holding him accountable?

That he has corroborating witnesses?

There is conflicting witness testimony; any DA who wasn't actively avoiding an indictment would have gotten one for that reason alone.

Michael K said...

"The forensic evidence collected at the scene includes blood droplet spatter that suggests Michael Brown did in fact turn and then advance upon Officer Wilson.
Evidence collected inside the car, on Wilson's gun, from his uniform, and from Michael Brown's body in three separate autopsies are consistent with the claim that Brown was shot in the hand in the struggle over the weapon.

Multiple eyewitnesses confirmed the physical evidence that Michael Brown was advancing upon Officer Wilson when he was shot and killed.

While there may not be such thing as a "textbook" shooting, every single shot fired by Officer Wilson, from the first attempt inside the Tahoe until the final shot into the apex of a charging Brown's head, was entirely justified as a matter of self-defense."

Rev knows better because "voluntary" witnesses say something different.

Browndog said...

Hopefully, tomorrow, all the roads will be shut down due to protests, parades cancelled, and we can all just celebrate the "new" tradition of Friendsgiving

http://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/friendsgiving-a-new-tradition-to-be-thankful-for/2014/11/25/66aab37a-74b6-11e4-a755-e32227229e7b_story.html

William said...

The politics are such that it's not possible to prosecute Johnson. No matter. In the ordinary flow of events, life will visit its own punishment upon him. This is not a guy destined for a long life in open air......I don't think any judicial punishment is possible, but shouldn't newscasters make note of the fact hat he had lied to the police on a previous occasion and that he had told stories on air to them that were contradicted by the forensic evidence. No one except Fox makes note of these facts. You would think that some newscasters would be peeved about being lied to and shown as being gullible in their belief of those lies. No such luck.

Drago said...

William: "No one except Fox makes note of these facts."

I'm sorry to inform you that Howard will be very very very disappointed with you for referencing Fox.

Otherwise you point is, of course, well taken and we all know perfectly well why the usual news media suspects can't be bothered with those types of facts: they are extremely disturbing to the garages and other LIV's that represent the dem base.

William said...

They say fish don't know about the existence of water because they live and breathe it. Thus so with Ezra Klein and, of course, others.

Drago said...

Browndog: "Hopefully, tomorrow, all the roads will be shut down due to protests, parades cancelled, and we can all just celebrate the "new" tradition of Friendsgiving"

Fantastic.

The only thing could make "Friendsgiving" even better in the obama economy is if you celebrate it while on a "Stay-cation" due to your "Fun-employment".

Followed in the holiday season by Festivus, naturally.

William said...

I'm referring to his bullshit detector.

garage mahal said...

Remember: government agents with guns would never lie about an interaction with the general public that killed someone who wasn't armed. Always trust the system and the government. That's what is best for you and your family every single time.

William said...

Can anyone name a Democrat who remained angry at Clinton for telling them lies about Monica? There are higher truths, and there are lies. Clinton lived his life in service to the higher truth.......The higher truth in Ferguson is that it's all Officer Wilson's fault. So anything Johnson says is all to the good.

Drago said...

garage mahal: "Remember: government agents with guns would never lie about an interaction with the general public that killed someone who wasn't armed. Always trust the system and the government. That's what is best for you and your family every single time."

LOL

So that's what you're going with?

Too funny.

That tactic is usually better employed by madisonfella. Once again garage, you're out of your depth.

steve uhr said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Drago said...

garage, do you think that Gov Walker stole your "incredibly easy questions" and placed them out of your reach on his secret routers?

Boy, talk about cruel.

It's like Walker is the big kid holding your head with one hand and eats your ice cream while you just swing and flail away to no avail.

mccullough said...

Garage,

You don't have to believe the police officer or the other witnesses. It's not an either or thing.

Everybody lies.



Browndog said...

Shorter Garage:

Rocks don't burn. So, when they don't, it proves I'm right about other things. It's science.

Drago said...

Since we still might have some madisonians on here, what's the best barbecue joint in Madison? I'm talking brisket of course.

garage mahal said...

You don't have to believe the police officer or the other witnesses. It's not an either or thing.

Everybody lies.


There are no verifiable facts. Only competing answers. 2+2= whatever

Browndog said...

@Drago-

good luck. We can't get good BBQ brisket here in Michigan-

By that I mean any-except for one place (Dave's). $60 a plate, and it's imported from Madison, Wisconsin.

Where the hell is that?

Drago said...

garage: "There are no verifiable facts. Only competing answers. 2+2= whatever"

LOL

"no verifiable facts"

Pitch perfect response for Leftism in general and the obama era in particular.

Pitch. Perfect.

Drago said...

Browndog: "By that I mean any-except for one place (Dave's). $60 a plate, and it's imported from Madison, Wisconsin.

Where the hell is that?"

I dunno, but based on the comments of some madisonians on this thread, it's a place where natural law does not exist.

So even if you ordered brisket in madison, they might deliver to you a shrubbery or an "emotion"...and to them it would correct, or in the words of garage, "whatever".

Drago said...

Well, 10pm here. Work is complete and I'm headed off to watch the Lakers collapse in the second half.

Good luck finding those "incredibly easy questions" you "mind-asked" for garage.

Funny, I didn't visualize you as a telepathy sort of guy.

LOL

Big Mike said...

There are no verifiable facts.

@garage, the other day you posted something that was not mockable. Glad to see you've reverted to form.

But I thought you lefties believed in science? I think you mean junk science like eugenics, not forensics.

Achilles said...

garage mahal said...

"You don't have to believe the police officer or the other witnesses. It's not an either or thing.

Everybody lies."

There are no verifiable facts. Only competing answers. 2+2= whatever"

There are the autopsy results, which all support the officer in the case. Your willful mendacity in service of your ideology is disgusting.

mccullough said...

Garage,

Were the forensics cooked up? Stick to those. Eyewitness testimony isn't reliable.


The pattern of the shell casings and blood stains show that Brown moved toward the officer as he was shooting at him and hitting him and that the officer moved back. Only one shell casing was west of where Brown's body ended up. The other 9 were all east of his body. Who in their right mind moves at someone who is shooting at them?





Quaestor said...

For garage mahal, if he hasn't passed out on his couch with an open 24 can of Coors Lite trickling its remains down his faded Hawaiian shirt:

From the Washington Post (08/16) The autopsy by St. Louis County chief medical examiner Mary Case, released to state prosecutors late Friday, found that Brown, 18, had six gunshot wounds to the head and chest and was shot from the front.

Dorian Johnson testified under oath that Officer Wilson shot Brown in the back as Brown retreated with his hands raised saying "Don't shoot!" Ergo perjury.

Quaestor said...

For garage mahal, if he hasn't chocked to death on that 48th glazed jelly-filed Dunkin donut, a video:

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/what-the-forensic-evidence-says-about-michael-browns-death/

Quaestor said...

For garage mahal, if he can tear himself away from that plate full of Twinkies and Ho-Hos long enough to read the following:

From The Washington Times (10/22)
Official documents on slain 18-year-old Michael Brown have reportedly revealed that he was shot in the hand at close range and had marijuana in his system when he was killed by a Ferguson, Missouri, police officer.

The official autopsy report and accompanying toxicology report were prepared by the St. Louis County medical examiner and obtained by the St. Louis Post-Dispatch. The newspaper reports that these findings, conducted by two experts not directly involved in the case, provide the most detailed description to date of the wounds Brown sustained on Aug. 9.

Officer Darren Wilson told investigators that Brown reached for the officer’s gun inside his patrol vehicle, so he fired two shots, hitting Brown once in the right hand and firing additional shots that killed the teen. The official autopsy said Brown’s tissue was found on the exterior of the driver’s side of Wilson’s vehicle.

The St. Louis medical examiner, Dr. Michael Graham, who is not involved in the case, reviewed the autopsy report for the Post-Dispatch, concluding that it “does support that there was a significant altercation at the car.”

“Someone got an injury that tore off skin and left it on the car,” he said. “That fits with everything else that came out. There’s blood in the car, now skin on the car, that shows something happened right there.”

An examination of tissue from Brown’s hand wound showed foreign matter “consistent with products that are discharged from the barrel of a firearm,” the Post-Dispatch reported.

Sources also told the Post-Dispatch that Brown’s blood had been found on Wilson’s gun.

Dr. Judy Melinek, a forensic pathologist in San Francisco, said the autopsy “supports the fact that this guy is reaching for the gun, if he has gunpowder particulate material in the wound.”

“If he has his hand near the gun when it goes off, he’s going for the officer’s gun,” she told the paper, adding that the autopsy did not support witnesses’ accounts that Brown was running away or had his hands up when he was shot.

Dr. Melinek said Brown was facing Officer Wilson when he was shot once in the forehead, twice in the chest and once in the upper right arm.

“The wound to the top of Brown’s head would indicate he was falling forward or in a lunging position toward the shooter; the shot was instantly fatal,” the Post-Dispatch reported.

A sixth shot that hit the forearm traveled from the back of the arm to the inner arm, which means Brown’s palms could not have been facing Officer Wilson, Dr. Melinek told the paper.

A toxicology report, performed by a St. Louis University laboratory, detected THC in Brown’s system at the time of the shooting. Ohio State University College of Pharmacy consultant Alfred Staubus said it is unclear, however, if Brown was impaired at the time, the Post-Dispatch reported.




Read more: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/oct/22/autopsy-shows-michael-brown-shot-at-close-/#ixzz3KF8Rzuum
Follow us: @washtimes on Twitter

garage mahal said...

For garage mahal, if he hasn't chocked to death on that 48th glazed jelly-filed Dunkin donut

I'm admittedly overweight at approx 220lbs. I drink a lot of beer and eat like a king. You? What do you weigh in at?

Drago said...

Just thought I'd pop back for a moment to let Howard know that apparently, one of the businesses that was burned out by garages heroes (with a black female owner/proprietor) received Rush Limbaugh's generous support and even greater fan base support and easily met the owners fund raising goal of $20,000......and then the donations went all the way past that 20k to $200k.

Yep, $200k+ and counting.

What did you do today to help in St Louis Howard? Besides read Mother Jones I mean?

Drago said...

garage: "I drink a lot of beer and eat like a king"

That's okay by me, after all, this is America baby!

However, barack and michelle and former mayor mikey (NYC) and basically the entirety of the left aren't going to like that one bit.

garage mahal said...

There are the autopsy results, which all support the officer in the case.

I guess we'll just to take your word for it then. I don't think you would knowingly lie to me. The empirical links are lacking I think you would agree though/

An old trapper once told me that urinating on an open wound will keep it clean without infection for the foreseeable future. That's what this feels like TBH.

HoodlumDoodlum said...

The nonpatronizing argument is that holding him accountable may discourage others from coming forward in the future to give testimony out of fear that they might not be believed and would be prosecuted. If the damage from discouraging truthful-but-anxious witnesses outweighs the deterrence effect (on possible future liars) then it's rational to not hold him accountable. A similar argument is made regarding false charges of sexual assault, etc. If we value encouraging marginal witnesses to come forward more than we value retribution against liars we forbearance is the better course. That's the argument, anyway.

bbkingfish said...

With close friends as dumb as the ones quoted here, poor Darren Wilson doesn't need any enemies. They sure aren't doing their buddy any favors.

Dick Stanley said...

Lying if you believe the prosecutor-manipulated grand jury. There should be a public trial, not the private grand jury one.

HoodlumDoodlum said...

Dick Stanley said...
Lying if you believe the prosecutor-manipulated grand jury.


Early interview with Johnson Check out 2:22 of that video. Johnson says Wilson "stood over him shooting." The physical evidence presented to the grand jury showed that Brown was several feet away from Wilson when Brown died. Johnson says in that interview that Brown stopped and was on the ground (ie not moving forward), but the physical evidence (blood deposits on the ground) shows that Brown moved towards Wilson. Johnson in an early interview said Wilson shot Brown in the back as he ran away--interviews with others also put forward the idea that Brown was shot in the back as he fled. The physical evidence (3 autopsies) shows that Brown was not shot in the back, nor in the part of his arm that would have been exposed had he been shot while his hands were up in the pose Johnson claimed they where when Brown was shot.

Johnson's statements being refuted by physical evidence isn't something the prosecutor can "manipulate for the grand jury," is it? You don't have to believe Wilson's testimony at all to recognize that Johnson's early statements in interviews were flatly wrong.

HoodlumDoodlum said...

Daily Mail story on problems with the eyewitness testimony here

Key bit:
urors also were presented with dueling versions from Wilson and Dorian Johnson, who was walking with Brown during the Aug. 9 confrontation.
Johnson painted Wilson as provoking the violence, while Wilson said Brown was the aggressor.
But Johnson also declared on TV, in a clip played for the grand jury, that Wilson fired at least one shot at his friend while Brown was running away: 'It struck my friend in the back.'
Johnson held to a variation of this description in his grand jury testimony, saying the shot caused Brown's body to 'do like a jerking movement, not to where it looked like he got hit in his back, but I knew, it maybe could have grazed him, but he definitely made a jerking movement.'


Also, about a different witness:
Another witness had told the FBI after the shooting that he saw Wilson shoot Brown in the back and then stand over his prone body to finish him off.
But in his grand jury testimony, this witness, acknowledged that he had not seen that part of the shooting, and that what he told the FBI was 'based on me being where I'm from, and that can be the only assumption that I have.'

HoodlumDoodlum said...

Intercut video of Johnson's Aug 10 and Aug 12 interviews

Both statements say Brown was hit in the back. The 2nd interview alone says Brown was hit in the chest, but both say Wilson was firing from inside his car as Brown ran away. The position of the shell casings and the lack of any wounds to Brown's back contradicts Johnson's testimony.

By the way, it's ok to say Johnson was mistaken (heat of the moment, emergency situation, etc) although that doesn't necessarily explain a changing story. What's not ok is admitting that Johnson was mistaken on these (key) details but his testimony should otherwise be treated as holy writ.

Jim in St Louis said...

"What is the (nonpatronizing) argument for not holding him accountable?"

Because the truth was determined from other means. So charging Dorian for perjury would not advance justice.

Rusty said...

If it weren't for people of all races of low IQ there wouldn't be reality TV and the fabulous thinking that these people use to convince themselves of almost anything.

Howard said...

Thanks, guys.

There you have it, Garage. The dittoheads are right about Johnson's testimony and they provided ample examples of the forensic evidence.

Based on this, he should be prosecuted for perjury.

April Apple said...

Interesting how the accounts of liars make the evening news and MSNBC in particular.

Freder Frederson said...

Last I checked it wasn't against the law to lie. If it was, Rush Limbaugh would be doing life without parole.

Curious George said...

One thing to consider with garage...like most lefties they rely solely on lefty sources. Go out to kos, DU, or any other progressive site and you won't see any evidence of a information that conflicts with their preferred version of events. It's just not there.

It's also the reason that there aren't too many lefties on this blog. They don't want to hear conflicting info. They want the echo chamber. No, the NEED the echo chamber.

Those like that garage are rare, but they wander in, spew their bullshit, and then when trapped it's "squirrel" and off they go.

Birkel said...

Freder Frederson just came into the thread, jealous of the idiocy level displayed by "garage mahal". Trying to steal the mantle of most idiotic performance in an Althouse thread with a last-minute stupid, Freder Frederson fell just short.

I would like it noted, however, that Freder thinks Martha Stewart never went to prison, Bill Clinton never lost his law license and -- apparently -- there's an exception to the laws of perjury so long as it advances 'the cause'.

That's some dumb shit, Freder. But you still haven't out-stupid-ed "garage mahal".

April Apple said...

I'm pretty sure lying to a grand jury is against the law. Lying under oath is against the law. But then, to leftists, the law is something we use to wipe our bottoms.

April Apple said...

Summary of Wilson’s testimony

After being sworn in, Wilson notes (p. 197) that he is currently on administrative leave, and is appearing voluntarily. It is worth noting that an officer waiving his Fifth Amendment rights to testify in front of a grand jury is very uncommon.

Wilson is a certified police officer in the state of Missouri and all of his training and certifications are current (p. 198). He is 6’4″, 210 lbs (the same height as Micheal Brown, but 80 lbs lighter).

Prior to his encounter with Michael Brown and Dorian Johnson, Officer Wilson’s day had been completely uneventful. He was in the area responding to a sick child call and was responding with EMS, who then transported the mother and newborn with a fever to the hospital (p. 199-202). It was while he was completing this call to in Northwoods apartments that he first heard of the strong-arm robbery call. Two other units were dispatched to handle that call. Wilson was not. (p. 202).

Wilson was dressed in a normal police uniform and was driving a marked Ferguson police SUV ( a Chevrolet Tahoe) with light bar (p. 204). Wilson’s duty equipment included a Sig 229 .40 Smith & Wesson caliber pistol with a 12 round magazine, plus one round in the chamber for a total of 13 rounds in the gun. He carried two spare magazines on his belt, along with two pairs of handcuffs, an ASP baton, chemical spray, and his portable radio. The Ferguson Police Department does not have enough Tasers for every officer, and Wilson generally does not request them because they are large, bulky and uncomfortable to carry (p. 205-206).

... cont...

April Apple said...

...After completing the sick child call, Wilson is leaving when he notices that two men, one much larger than the other, are walking down the double yellow centerline of Canfield Drive, impeding traffic (p. 207).

Wilson pulls up with his window down and suggests that Johnson and Brown move out of the road and use the sidewalk. Johnson informs Officer Wilson that they are almost to their destination, and continues walking down the middle of the road. Wilson replied, “Well, what’s wrong with using the sidewalk?” to which Michael Brown replied, “F**k what you have to say.” (p. 208).

It was at this point Brown drew Officer Wilson’s full attention, and he noticed that Michael Brown had a handful of Cigarillos, and that Dorian Johnson wore a black shirt. Wilson realized that the Johnson and Wilson matched the descriptions of the two strong-arm robbery suspects that two other officers had been dispatched to find (p. 209).

The two suspects kept walking past Wilson’s car. Wilson got on his radio and informed dispatch that he needed another car, then backed up his SUV past Johnson and Brown, then angled it to impede their progress and starts to open his door, saying to Brown, “Hey, come here a minute.” Brown then said, “What the f**k are you going to do about it,” and slammed the door shut (p. 209).

Wilson then tried to open the door again and push Brown away, exclaiming, “Get the f**k back.” Brown slammed the door shut a second time, and then threw a punch at Officer Wilson, striking him in the face. Wilson described the punch as a “full on swing, but not a full shot,” (p. 210) suggesting that Michael Brown put all of his 292 pounds into an attempted knock-out punch, but that he didn’t fully connect, and only struck a glancing blow.

After striking Officer Wilson, Brown handed the Cigarillos to Dorian Johnson and Wilson attempted and failed to gain control over Brown’s right arm. He described it as fruitless as “a five year old holding on to Hulk Hogan” (p. 212).

Wilson again attempted to open his door and escape the vehicle, but Brown blocked his escape and swung another full power punch and hit Wilson in the face again.


Officer Wilson began to run through his options, and ruled out his chemical spray because Brown’s hands were in front of his face (rendering the spray unlikely to hit his eyes and work), and the vehicle confines would likely result in Wilson getting the spray into his eyes as well. Wilson’s ASP baton was behind his right hip and trapped against the SUV’s seat, and even if he could deploy it, there wasn’t room to deploy and swing it with any force. He couldn’t use the flashlight on the passenger seat as an impact weapon either, for the same reason. There simply wasn’t enough room to swing it (p. 213-214)."
...

Wilson's grand jury testimony is compelling.

garage mahal said...

Those like that garage are rare, but they wander in, spew their bullshit, and then when trapped it's "squirrel" and off they go.

Going on day two waiting for this forensic evidence I was promised exists. I'm guessing you don't have anything either. As usual.

iowan2 said...

@fredderfredderson says
"Last I checked it wasn't against the law to lie. If it was, Rush Limbaugh would be doing life without parole."

Others made some references to fabulously famous liars, the one that popped into my mind was 'Scooter' Libby.
The additional goody that makes this cite so delicious is the fact that progs still make the claim that a conservative like Libby was convicted of outing a spy. When in fact no one was ever charged with outing a spy......mostly because no spy was ever outed

In the subsequent federal trial, United States v. Libby, the jury convicted Libby on four of the five counts in the indictment (one count of obstruction of justice, two counts of perjury, and one count of making false statements) and acquitted on the second count of making false statements.[9][10] The day after his conviction in that trial, he resigned his later appointment as senior advisor at the Hudson Institute (January 1, 2006 – March 7,

Bruce Hayden said...

Maybe to throw some gas on the fire, but instead of, or maybe in addition to, the perjury, how about felony murder? As well as being an accomplice to 2nd degree assault on a police officer. Plus of course, the original strong armed robbery. Three major felonies, one potentially a capital crime, plus a misdemeanor.

The felony murder victim would, of course, be Big Mike Brown, and I am talking about potential charges against Johnson. He may have been able to claim lack of involvement in the assault by Brown on Wilson, until he took the cigarillos so that Brown had both hands free to beat on Wilson, but that made him an accomplice in the Class A/B felony. And since the death was within a minute or two of those blows by Brown, and his grabbing Wilson's gun, it could be argued to be part of the same transaction or crime.

What would Johnson's incentive be to lie here? How about avoiding 5-15 years for the Class B felony/ies (plus potential enhancements due to previous criminal convictions), possible 10-30 years since Brown grabbed Wilson's gun and forced it into his hip, trying to discharge it (potentially moving the assault on a police officer to 1st degree), and maybe the death sentence for Brown's death.

AReasonableMan said...

Curious George said...
It's also the reason that there aren't too many lefties on this blog. They don't want to hear conflicting info. They want the echo chamber. No, the NEED the echo chamber.


This is genuinely, if inadvertently, funny. Any moderate or left voices on this blog are routinely shouted down by a gaggle of obnoxious whack jobs who appear to have nothing else going on in their lives. And, then you complain that moderates and left wingers fail to participate. Go back and read Drago's posts and then try to convince anyone that he has some purpose other than to block all dissent from the Republican party line.

In reality you and your comrades have done your level best to turn this blog into an echo chamber. Afraid of dissent from your fragile world view you do your best to crush it. Republican party hacks toeing the party line.

April Apple said...

The media reported, over an over: Unarmed black teen shot and killed by racist white cop.

No patience for objectivity or facts. No curiosity, no objectivity, no forensics, no data, no evidence.

Narrative and emotion trump facts, evidence, and intellectual curiosity within the democrat media complex. The Jon Stewart audience is ready for their cue to clap and nod. We believe!

April Apple said...

MSNBC cannot stop interviewing a liar.

garage mahal said...

Dorian Johnson is the new Gruber.

"hey, look it over here, look at these shiny keys..."

Michael said...

Garage

The man puts his forensics together later, dude. The gentle giant was hunted down because of his race and shot in the back with boomerang bullets that managed to hit him in the chest. The killer racist cop moved the shell casings and blood to make it look like the gentle giant was coming at him. These are tricks of the man, dude.

Then, six months in advance of the gentle giant being hunted down and shot on his way to college, with his hands up and begging not to be shot, the man put together a secret grand jury composed of nine racists and three cousins of the gentle giant.

The man arranged for three autopsies to be done on the dead as a doorknob gentle giant and all three failed to note that he was shot in the back at close range as he was pleading for mercy.

The three autopsies are known individually and collectively as "forensic evidence". Not all of it but some of it. The bullet casings and their position on the ground in relation to blood on the ground also make up what the man calls "forensic evidence." All of this "forensic evidence" concocted by the racist man points to the gentle giant being shot in the back as he was running away begging not to be shot with his arms in the air.

So there you have it. The man, dude, had the audacity to put all of this on the World Wide Web.

Birkel said...

AReasonableMan gives away the game. He believes the no bill judgment of the grand jury is a Left-Right issue. It's not. It's an issue of law. As a matter of law the officer defended himself against an attacker. The officer reasonably believed his own life was in danger.

The Left knows it cannot win without 95% of the black vote. If that percentage slips to 85% Democrats cannot win. It's basic mathematics. Everything about this case is judged - by Leftists - through that prism.

April Apple said...

Gruber is a wholly owned subsidiary of the left.

You own him. He's your liar-god.

“Lack of transparency is a huge political advantage. And basically, call it the stupidity of the American voter or whatever, but basically that was really really critical for the thing to pass. It’s a second-best argument. Look, I wish Mark was right that we could make it all transparent, but I’d rather have this law than not.”

- ObamaCare Architect, MIT Economist Dr. Jonathan Gruber



Plug that statement into any situation, and take it with you.

richard mcenroe said...

Browndog...
riiiiiiiiight. Like the Democrats who are really Republicans in Chicago, and Detroit, and Los Angeles and everywhere else young black men are butchering each other, abandoning their children and preying on their neighbors.

KKK Republicans passing as Democrats everywhere you look...

Fool.

Drago said...

AReasonableMeltdown: "Go back and read Drago's posts and then try to convince anyone that he has some purpose other than to block all dissent from the Republican party line."

LOL

Garage claimed to have asked many "incredibly easy questions" that no one here could answer.

I pointed out that he had not asked any questions at all.

To AReasonableMeltdown, this is UNREASONABLE!

Thanks AReasonableMeltdown, you never disappoint...though not in the way that you think.
LOL

Drago said...

AReasonableMeltdown: "Any moderate or left voices on this blog are routinely shouted down by a gaggle of obnoxious whack jobs who appear to have nothing else going on in their lives."

How is it even possible to "shout someone down" on a blog?

Poor ARM. "I guess he was just too high strung"

Drago said...

garage: "garage mahal said...
Dorian Johnson is the new Gruber.

"hey, look it over here, look at these shiny keys..."

The lefties keep putting Dorian Johnson on TV and interviewing him.

In garages/ARM's universe, that's all the fault of the right wing.

LOL

Birkel said...

Quit resonding to "garage mahal" unless it posts something substantive.

This legal issue must be turned a Right-Left issue because Democrats cannot lose the 95% black vote. At 85% the Democrats lose 15-20 House seats, even with all the gerrymandering. The Left needs a political issue to keep blacks voting for the party that is actively undermining the black middle class with handouts to cronies andan imported labor force.

Stay focuse on the motivations of the Left's leaders. Stop letting the lemmings derail conversations.

Michael The Magnificent said...

Dear lefties,

The right-blogosphere has been going over Big Mike Brown's leaked autopsy reports for weeks.

So, the right has known for weeks that Brown's injuries show that he was NOT shot from behind but from the front, that the wounds to his arms were NOT sustained while his hands were up (if they ever were up) but while they were down, and that he was NOT shot while Wilson stood over him (if he ever did stand over him) to "finish him off".

Your ignorance is your problem, not ours. It's too bad you're so invested in your left-wing fiction that you can't be bothered to do a little research on your own, and insist it must be spoon-fed to you and then insist it doesn't exist.

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