Althouse: "After attempting twice to physically take Gonzalez down but failing to do so because of the size disparity between the two..."

November 14, 2014

"After attempting twice to physically take Gonzalez down but failing to do so because of the size disparity between the two..."

"... the officer then attempted to draw her baton but accidentally grabbed her flashlight instead.... The officer threw down her flashlight, drew her firearm, and continued to give Gonzalez commands that he ignored."

From the report on how that White House fence jumper got past security.

60 comments:

MadisonMan said...: So a man was ignoring a woman.

Typical.; 11/14/14, 7:29 AM
I Have Misplaced My Pants said...: That is an astonishing list of screwups.

I don't work in a 'sheepdog' kind of field, but I have to wonder: isn't this the kind of thing they train endlessly for and kind of hope that they actually get to use those skills someday?

Would have expected that they would be thrilled to get to swing into action and competently take a threat down.

Nope-it was a derp festival all the way down.

Way to demonstrate competence there, guys.; 11/14/14, 7:33 AM
Amichel said...: They should have shot him the first time they had the chance. I don't care if he was armed or not, there is no way to be sure of that just by looking at him. They are fortunate the man was not wearing a suicide belt. They could have very easily allowed a bomb into the White House just because they wanted to avoid the possible bad PR of shooting an unarmed man.; 11/14/14, 7:33 AM
Jess said...: Gonzales could have ended the careers of more than one Secret Service agent, if he'd produced a knife, and used it effectively.; 11/14/14, 7:35 AM
traditionalguy said...: She needs to ask the Ferguson, Missouri Police Department for training on how to stop a large unarmed man when the arresting officer has a gun.; 11/14/14, 7:35 AM
Curious George said...: The important thing is that she tried.; 11/14/14, 7:36 AM
Heartless Aztec said...: People sleep peacefully in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf - George Orwell. Nothing about women or gender equality in hiring practices. That said, I've met some rough butch dykes who could kick my ass. So I say it's a push. The Secret Service is just hiring the wrong type of woman. I'm thinking flannel shirted and steel toed work booted androgyny packing heat.; 11/14/14, 7:37 AM
Carnifex said...: I know there are exceptions to every rule, in fact I knew a female MP that was spectacular at her job. Could take down just about anybody. But the vast majority of female LEO's couldn't take me down physically and I'm an out of shape, handicapped, old man. That's just the truth feminist don't want to admit because that gives lie to their entire existence.

I guess she's lucky he didn't want her to make a sammich.; 11/14/14, 7:39 AM
David said...: That is quite a list of serial incompetences. Damn.

But it's great that they have such acute weapon detection skills.; 11/14/14, 7:39 AM
virgil xenophon said...: If EVER there was a prime example of why women should NOT be allowed in the combat arms of the US Armed Services, this is it..; 11/14/14, 7:39 AM
I Have Misplaced My Pants said...: I don't even see how it would be bad PR to shoot an unarmed man under those circumstances. Most Americans take it as a given---especially post-9/11---that with behavior like that you shoot first and ask questions later.; 11/14/14, 7:40 AM
The Drill SGT said...: Heads should roll below the level of the already departed Boss.

These doofisses are uniformed SS guys, not the Presidential security detail. I don't know what the chain of command is, and whether the head of the President's Detail has oversight, but there appears to be a separate "White House Police" unit, which I assume is these uniformed clowns. That guy, and the shift super ought to be fired.

The Police unit head for the training, and policies. The Day shift super for failing to conduct a proper turn-out inspection and to make sure that agents weren't off fucking off in their vans, etc.; 11/14/14, 7:42 AM
David said...: Virgil, most of the screwups were by men, big strong virile men I am sure, but apparently dumb as bricks.

Except of course the director, a woman. But one might point a finger or two at those (men?) who appointed her. She did not have strong qualifications beyond the vagina.; 11/14/14, 7:42 AM
David said...: The Drill SGT said...
Heads should roll below the level of the already departed Boss.

I'd say above. Who appointed her?; 11/14/14, 7:43 AM
Hagar said...: Why all the comments about the woman?

She did as well or better than about a dozen or more of her male colleagues.; 11/14/14, 7:44 AM
SomeoneHasToSayIt said...: Bless her heart.; 11/14/14, 7:44 AM
YoungHegelian said...: Maybe she grabbed her flashlight mistakenly thinking it was her light saber.; 11/14/14, 7:48 AM
Tank said...: I heard three radio reports on this report this morning, but had to come to Althouse to finally hear about the giant female-fail.

Doesn't this lady watch TV? Why didn't she just twist his arm and break him down, or hit him with an upside down flying judo kicky thing, or punch his lights out, like on TV every night? This lady does not need more training, she needs more TV time.; 11/14/14, 7:52 AM
MadisonMan said...: She did as well or better than about a dozen or more of her male colleagues.

That's a very low bar.

(I initially wrote "pretty" but changed it)

To answer your question: Because the Professor prompts us to!; 11/14/14, 7:52 AM
Wince said...: Wasn't the original story that he was taken down inside the WH singlehandedly by a female officer wielding a can of whoop-ass? More propaganda?; 11/14/14, 7:54 AM
Paul said...: MadisonMan said...

"So a man was ignoring a woman."

Yea, sexist jerk....

But in the martial arts we drill students to improvise. So she drew her flashlight, USE IT! Hit him with it!

Do a quick kick in the knees or nuts, eyejab, elbows! Aw comeone women, fight!

As Bruce Lee said, "adapt, improvise, overcome".

But the SS, and virtually most police forces, are 'equal opportunity' folks with 'affirmative action' and have dumbed down the training to take into account for the, uh, 'weaker sex'.

I don't mind female cops (and I find Detective Kate Beckett super hot), but they need to keep standards high so the women who are hired can handle themselves.; 11/14/14, 7:56 AM
The Drill SGT said...: Long long ago, in a land far away, I was the Reaction Platoon Leader guarding a Nuclear storage site. Let's call it WH2, in Kitzingen FRG.

I had to drill, and I mean drill my 40 troops on every possible contingency and they had to know by heart the 5 reasons for using deadly force.

I can't believe that the SS can't conduct training of these police and conduct inspections and drills that surpassed the expectations that the Army had for my temporary duty assignment.

PS: "attempting to breach the inner fence into the exclusion zone" was one of the reasons.

aka, the door to the WH.; 11/14/14, 7:57 AM
Deep State Reformer said...: No tasers,chemical sprays, or even batons? Fire that lot in their entirety.; 11/14/14, 8:08 AM
Tank said...: Hagar said...

Why all the comments about the woman?

She did as well or better than about a dozen or more of her male colleagues.

Because she was the person at the door who had physical contact with the guy and should have stopped him (dead, if necessary) right there.

She pulled her gun? Why isn't he dead? Was she waiting to see him shoot Malia, or Grandma?

She failed to take him down? She's lucky he did not disarm and kill her.

It's significant because so many think it's like on TV, women are just as capable of handling men in physical combat.; 11/14/14, 8:08 AM
Ignorance is Bliss said...: What I still don't understand is why every door to the White House isn't locked 24/7, except for two cases: when they are intentionally letting someone in, and when the President is outside on the grounds.; 11/14/14, 8:15 AM
Anonymous said...: It's amusing about the officer's ineptness, but otherwise I don't care. Presidents are completely replaceable, knock one off and life goes on.

Peter; 11/14/14, 8:18 AM
Ignorance is Bliss said...: And what is with throwing down her flashlight? If the flashlight is in you hand, then you use the flashlight as your weapon.

Nearest Weapon, Nearest Target.; 11/14/14, 8:18 AM
The Drill SGT said...: It's significant because so many think it's like on TV, women are just as capable of handling men in physical combat.

The normal complaint WRT to female cops is that they are better in the touchy feely conflict de-escalation. However, on the continuum of force, they have fewer tools. They can't intimidate well, they can jump in with a baton, they can't wrestle and cuff well, so.

it's talk talk and then go to guns.; 11/14/14, 8:25 AM
robinintn said...: On NPR this morning, they called Gonzalez a former soldier from Texas. (From my memory). Damned knuckle-dragging, violent Texan soldiers!; 11/14/14, 8:34 AM
Just asking questions (Jaq) said...: My God, I am glad that we have a Secret Service that is disciplined enough to rationally assess threats and use minimal force. The Secret Service could teach a thing or two to way too many police departments in this country. - Freder Frederson on the incident at the time in an earlier thread.

Really, there is lots of comedy gold in those old threads.; 11/14/14, 8:35 AM
Ignorance is Bliss said...: Hagar said...

Why all the comments about the woman?

She did as well or better than about a dozen or more of her male colleagues.

I assume that multiple people were in a position to shoot the guy. None of them attempted to. That tells me that not shooting was a decision, either as policy beforehand or on-the-fly by someone in charge. Whoever made that decision should be accountable for that.

After that decision, it appears that the woman who failed to take her down was only one in a position to physically stop the guy. She screwed that up in multiple ways.

Beyond that did anyone else screw up?; 11/14/14, 8:35 AM
Just asking questions (Jaq) said...: Presidents are completely replaceable, knock one off and life goes on.

I happen to believe in little 'd' democracy. The president needs to be protected.; 11/14/14, 8:38 AM
The Drill SGT said...: Ignorance is Bliss said...
And what is with throwing down her flashlight? If the flashlight is in you hand, then you use the flashlight as your weapon.

Exactly. the classic Cop light is a heavy Mag Light. You can bash heads with a Mag.

but she went to guns, be did not have the confidence or the ROE to pull the trigger.; 11/14/14, 8:41 AM
traditionalguy said...: The Border Wars are best fought by border warriors. Success in defending a border is not so much in male and female as in a culture that teaches a flexible mind and a soul with resolve to win and never surrender.

Rob O'Neill is an example of that principle. As were the Texan border warriors at San Antonio and San Jacinto guarding the border with Mexico from Santa Anna's Spanish army. And as were the 800 men guarding the border between Henderson Field and the jungle end of Bloody Ridge from a 4000 Japanese Army in a night attack.; 11/14/14, 8:49 AM
The Drill SGT said...: Ignorance is Bliss said...

Beyond that did anyone else screw up?

1. The Dog guy asleep in his van...
2. The day shift super who let him, and didn't inspect the shift to make sure they had their gear. (e.g. missing radio)
3. The WH Police head, who allowed the alarms to be muted without compensatory steps, like locking the doors, etc
4. The head of the Presidential Detail who should have insisted on drills on all the scenarios.; 11/14/14, 8:54 AM
RecChief said...: I'm wondering what the ROE is for the protective detail? She struggled with him twice, pulled her weapon and he ignored her commands after that. And he isn't dead?

Didn't the Secret Service kill a lady in her car outside the fence?; 11/14/14, 9:22 AM
MayBee said...: But don't worry! If you are home and Obama is in the neighborhood, Secret Service *will* successfully keep you from picking up your kid at soccer practice!; 11/14/14, 9:28 AM
Scott M said...: Minimum height/weight requirements for deadly serious work are so misogynistic.; 11/14/14, 9:52 AM
jr565 said...: Remember the cop who killed Eric Garner with a chokehold? Why did he put him in a chokehold? Because there's a size dispirity.
Garner was a huge guy and getting him to the ground required something like a chokehold. For this women she'd need to have beaten him with her baton, (if she hadn't drawn her flashlight instead) or even put her baton around his neck and pull him down.
An illegal chokehold should be wrong if someone is down, and you then choke them with your baton, for example. But cops and security need to find ways to bring people down who don't want to go down. And there's no easy way to do it.
It also shows, that maybe women shouldn't be security guards unless they are physically capable of taking down strong men.
Have a test where a women needs to tackle someone with a build like a football player. Can they do it?; 11/14/14, 10:01 AM
Anonymous said...: Woman officers are as strong as man.; 11/14/14, 10:08 AM
Jason said...: Life imitates "Call of Duty."; 11/14/14, 10:43 AM
Mary Beth said...: I'm waiting for it all to be blamed on the maintenance guy who didn't repair the missing spike on the fence.; 11/14/14, 12:05 PM
n.n said...: Men and women are equal, despite our physiological differences. Not even the right to elective abortions, or proscriptive laws, were able to conclusively override the natural order.

I wonder what the next step in ignoring reality will be. What moral hazards will we need to reconcile, and collateral damage will we be required to cope with.; 11/14/14, 12:07 PM
n.n said...: To be fair, a 200 lb male officer would be equally outclassed by a 300 lb belligerent teenager; or a smaller package trained in a martial art or who enjoys the benefit of surprise.; 11/14/14, 12:10 PM
Skeptical Voter said...: There's a reason to have some big ugly guys on a protective service. A smaller lightly built female can take on an aggressive linebacker sized guy effectively just one way; Smith & Wesson and a good sight picture, and a center mass aim will do it--she won't.

My town's police force has an excellent community relations officr; those of us who know her and what she's done think the world of her. Very, very effective at what she does. But at around 5" 5" tall and maybe 130 pounds soaking wet (and a lot of that is muscle) she wouldn't have much of a chance against a Michael Brown sized guy--6" 6" tall, 300 pounds and aggressive.; 11/14/14, 12:34 PM
Swifty Quick said...: No harm, no foul.; 11/14/14, 12:39 PM
The Drill SGT said...: Skeptical Voter said...
There's a reason to have some big ugly guys on a protective service. A smaller lightly built female can take on an aggressive linebacker sized guy effectively just one way; Smith & Wesson and a good sight picture, and a center mass aim will do it--she won't.

and it depends on the role. The Big guy draws a lot of attention and focus from the threats.

I have read fiction that postulates the female SS protective agent who is a good shot and looks like administrative eye candy would be effective while the gorilla is growling at the intruder :); 11/14/14, 12:43 PM
Mary Beth said...: And why weren't those bushes impenetrable? This is obviously a failure of proper grounds keeping.; 11/14/14, 2:09 PM
The Drill SGT said...: Mary Beth said...
And why weren't those bushes impenetrable? This is obviously a failure of proper grounds keeping.

e.g. plant pointed stakes in the middle of the bush's

note that is the standard WH excuse...

IT'S BUSH'S FAULT!!!; 11/14/14, 2:20 PM
J Lee said...: If they ever did an episode of the Andy Griffith Show where Deputy Fife joins the Secret Service, this would probably be the story line.; 11/14/14, 2:33 PM
n.n said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 11/14/14, 2:52 PM
n.n said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 11/14/14, 2:53 PM
n.n said...: It's worth noting that a firearm's primary characteristic as a weapon is not to cause death, but as a force equalizer.; 11/14/14, 2:59 PM
Francisco D said...: The problem with what we euphemistically call "affirmative action" is that it promotes incompetents from protected classes and devalues the competence of those in the same class.; 11/14/14, 3:26 PM
Bob R said...: "It's amusing about the officer's ineptness, but otherwise I don't care. Presidents are completely replaceable, knock one off and life goes on."

But in this case life would go on under President Joe.; 11/14/14, 3:45 PM
MadisonMan said...: And why weren't those bushes impenetrable? This is obviously a failure of proper grounds keeping.

You know, I had this thread open in a tab, and didn't really know the subject being discussed. So I read your comment and I thought of ironrailsironweights (Peter).

I'll just go wash my mind out now.; 11/14/14, 3:59 PM
Joe said...: Why didn't she just put a bullet in his head?; 11/14/14, 7:26 PM
Skyler said...: Female cops just make me giggle.

This idiot woman should be looking for another line of work. She has proven she is not capable of coming through when needed. And whoever hired her should get the boot as well.; 11/15/14, 8:21 AM
Kirk Parker said...: tim vs ironrails:

Yes, we should provide a modicum of protection for the president, but really our current level is quite excessive (remember the ridiculous threats from the SS when the president was appearing at UW? Althouse blogged about it at the time.)

However that attitude needs to come from the top down, and I can't see Obama moving one nanometer in that direction.; 11/16/14, 1:04 AM
NotWhoIUsedtoBe said...: "because of the size disparity"

No comment.; 11/16/14, 12:13 PM