Althouse: "God is not afraid of new things."

October 20, 2014

"God is not afraid of new things."

Said the Pope.

97 comments:

Fernandinande said...: "The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun."; 10/20/14, 11:33 AM
traditionalguy said...: Jesus,the same yesterday, today and forever.

But a Vicar of Christ from the South American branch of the Catholic Church certainly will welcome change, any change at all, while he says, "Love, is all there is."; 10/20/14, 11:34 AM
Rusty said...: I doubt god is afraid of much.; 10/20/14, 11:34 AM
Achilles said...: Never been a fan of the catholic church. Societies where it is the predominant backbone of social construction end up tending towards large and powerful central governments probably because of the way it is structured. But it always had good intentions.

Now it seems not so much. It is one thing to support gay marriage, or at least the removal of government completely from the institution like I do. But the church has recently started going down the statist path. This quote is just one more step.; 10/20/14, 11:34 AM
NotWhoIUsedtoBe said...: But there's nothing new under the sun.; 10/20/14, 11:35 AM
NotWhoIUsedtoBe said...: Ah, Fendndinande said it.; 10/20/14, 11:35 AM
Anonymous said...: Fernandinande beat me to it.

The limited quote of Pope Francis seems silly, but there is probably a larger context.; 10/20/14, 11:37 AM
Renee said...: Yes, new.

I mean as Eve Tushnet stated, we bless our relationships with our pets informally on the Feast Day of Saint Francis. We can certianly acknowledge extra-familia relationships.

But new doesn't mean redefining the Sacrament of Marriage or the procreative aspects of human sexual design.

That's not new, that's changing something (destroying it).; 10/20/14, 11:41 AM
tim maguire said...: I certainly hope that commenters here are right that this is taken badly out of context. Otherwise, it is a stunning statement for a pope. God isn't afraid of anything and nothing is new to God.; 10/20/14, 11:45 AM
Renee said...: Ouch my brain reading that as a Vatholic , political terms and citing the Reporter.

The same Pope who lead Vatican II, also wrote Humanae Vitae.; 10/20/14, 11:46 AM
Renee said...: God is the Alpha & Omega, God is outside of space and time.; 10/20/14, 11:47 AM
Renee said...: Full text from the Vatican; 10/20/14, 11:53 AM
Renee said...: "We have just heard one of the most famous phrases in the entire Gospel: “Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s, and to God the things that are God’s” (Mt 22:21).

Goaded by the Pharisees who wanted, as it were, to give him an exam in religion and catch him in error, Jesus gives this ironic and brilliant reply. It is a striking phrase which the Lord has bequeathed to all those who experience qualms of conscience, particularly when their comfort, their wealth, their prestige, their power and their reputation are in question. This happens all the time; it always has.

Certainly Jesus puts the stress on the second part of the phrase: “and [render] to God the things that are God’s”. This calls for acknowledging and professing – in the face of any sort of power – that God alone is the Lord of mankind, that there is no other. This is the perennial newness to be discovered each day, and it requires mastering the fear which we often feel at God’s surprises.

God is not afraid of new things! That is why he is continually surprising us, opening our hearts and guiding us in unexpected ways. He renews us: he constantly makes us “new”. A Christian who lives the Gospel is “God’s newness” in the Church and in the world. How much God loves this “newness”!

“Rendering to God the things that are God’s” means being docile to his will, devoting our lives to him and working for his kingdom of mercy, love and peace."; 10/20/14, 11:56 AM
SteveR said...: Of course not, that's part of being God. That's being afraid. There's nothing new.; 10/20/14, 11:58 AM
traditionalguy said...: Pope Francis does not fear change in society mores. But does he fear God. I guess not since being the Pope no one can overrule him as Catolics understand submission to Rome's authority.; 10/20/14, 12:18 PM
Rocketeer said...: “Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s, and to God the things that are God’s” (Mt 22:21).

My whole life, I have wondered if theologians have not fundamentally misunderstood this phrase. Did Christ actually answer the question? Or was he telling them who to ask (ask Caesar, dummies!), and letting them slyly know that since he was God, such temporal concerns were below his pay grade?

But I'm just a dumb layman, so I'm sure I'm reading too much into it.; 10/20/14, 12:32 PM
lgv said...: God is perfect. God is omnipresent, omniscient, omnipotent. Why would God need new things? Why would the God whose word condemned homosexuality change his mind? Did she make a mistake.

As a reformed fundamentalist (with a couple of semesters of systematic theology) I couldn't care less about gay marriage. But, I also don't see how one can reconcile it with Biblical teaching.

Not only that, but the pope is supposed to be infallible. So, how can he have differing views from previous popes?

It's been a hundred year trend of watering Christianity down in order to be more inclusive. A couple more generations and Christian churches will no longer teach heaven and hell. Oh, and it probably be illegal to say anything bad about homosexuality.; 10/20/14, 12:33 PM
Annie said...: I certainly hope that commenters here are right that this is taken badly out of context. Otherwise, it is a stunning statement for a pope. God isn't afraid of anything and nothing is new to God.

Considering what he did in the synod...added to all those 'out of contexts' which probably weren't, he seems more of a 'go where the political winds blow' kind of secular liberal, than a man of God who upholds God's laws.

..."There were many "conservatives" elected in the different groups, including Cardinal Sarah, moderator for Gallicus (French-speaking) A, Abp. Léonard, relatore (rapporteur) for Gallicus B; Cardinal Bagnasco, moderator for Italicus B; Cardinal Robles Ortega, moderator for Ibericus (Spanish-speaking) A.

So, what was the Pope's response to these surprising votes?

He personally appointed ad hoc, and without prior announcement on this before the synod, six other prelates for the composition of the final report (the "Relatio Synodi"), all known as strong liberals: "

http://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2014/10/cardinal-burke-pariah-not-for-synod.html

Not to mention him renting out the Sistine Chapel - this is a church people, not a meeting hall - to corporate interests.

http://tinyurl.com/ohn42qq

Does the Pope really think 'reinterpreting' or changing the Church's doctrine is going to bring in more people? All he has to do is look at what happened to the pews of other denominations when they liberalized their teachings on sexual morality. People flee en masse.; 10/20/14, 12:39 PM
Unknown said...: The Bible on divorce: Moses gave it to you because of your hardness of hearts, it was never meant to be.

The Bible on homosexuality: You refused God, He let you go your own way, and this was the result. Those who continue in homosexuality will not go to be with God in heaven.

Not the Pope, the Bible.; 10/20/14, 12:40 PM
Annie said...: "The work of the devil will infiltrate even into the Church in such a way that one will see Cardinals opposing Cardinals, Bishops against other Bishops. The priests who venerate Me will be scorned and opposed by their confreres (other priests). Churches and altars will be sacked. The Church will be full of those who accept compromises, and the demon will press many priests and consecrated souls to leave the service of the Lord."

--Our Lady at Akita.; 10/20/14, 12:41 PM
YoungHegelian said...: "God is not afraid of new things

Oh, yes, He is. He told me so the other day. He told me they scared the BeJesus out of Him.; 10/20/14, 12:42 PM
n.n said...: Huh, the Pope is not Christian.

God lost faith in his children when they degraded each other to womb banks and sperm depositors. He's afraid that few women and men will pass the test when they abort his babies en masse.

What is an extra-universal being to do.; 10/20/14, 12:48 PM
Gahrie said...: By definition, they can be nothing new to God, especially the Christian God. He already knew everything that would happen in history before he created the universe.; 10/20/14, 12:48 PM
MnMark said...: Prediction: eventually, the Catholic leadership will decree that it is not strictly necessary to believe in Jesus in order to be a catholic. It will be OK to believe in Muhammad/Allah, for example. The important thing will be the concept of universal acceptance of everything. *What* you accept is not as important as that you are yielding, surrendering, accepting.

At some point the first Muslim pope will be selected. This will be celebrated as a fantastic illustration of how open and accepting the Catholic church has become.

That Muslim pope will then crack down with a hard line, saying things have gone too far, and will institute Sharia law (probably calling it something else, like 'Sharia with Catholic Characteristics').

The remaining Jesus-worshiping Catholics will then be beheaded as heretics.; 10/20/14, 12:54 PM
Shanna said...: He renews us: he constantly makes us “new”.

We are new every morning, new every morning. Great is thy faithfullness.; 10/20/14, 12:55 PM
Shanna said...: they scared the BeJesus out of Him

Ha!; 10/20/14, 12:56 PM
Alex said...: Mark... your persecution complex is adorable.; 10/20/14, 1:00 PM
hamiyam said...: For God, nothing can be new. We believe God is perfect; consequently, any change must introduce an imperfection which is contrary to the perfect nature required of our belief.
Note that the concept of change is time-dependent, a dimension of our material world and hence a creation of our God.; 10/20/14, 1:02 PM
Alex said...: Al PACINO 'Who are u carrying all those bricks for anyway? GOD!!!
is that it GOD!!! let me give u a little insight information about god.he likes to watch. he is a prankster. think about it. he gives men instincts. he gives u this extraodinary gift. and u know what he does.i swear, for his own ammusement. in his own private cosmic gag reel. he sets the rules and oppostion.its the goof of all time. look but dont touch. touch but dont taste. taste but dont swallow (evil laugh) and while u are jumping from one foot to the next. what is he doin? he is laughing his sick fucking ass off. he is a tight ass he is a sadist. he is an adsente land lord. worship that.... NEVER!!!!'

KEANU REEVES 'so u are saying its better to reign in hell than serve in heavan is that it?'

AL PACINO ' Why not? am here on the ground with my nose in it since the whole thing began. i have nurtured every sensation man has benn inspired to have. i cared about what he wanted and i never judged him. WHY? because i never rejected him. inspite of all his inperfections. am a vainer man!!!! am a humanist. i rest my case. (evil laugh); 10/20/14, 1:03 PM
Alex said...: Satan sounds like a fun guy.; 10/20/14, 1:04 PM
Anonymous said...: It wasn't long ago, on this very blog, that commenters were saying we didn't have to worry about Gay Marriage being forced on the Church.

Tell that to two ministers in Idaho who have to pay $1,000.00 a day until they agree to celebrate a gay wedding.

Maybe they should ask the pope to do it?; 10/20/14, 1:07 PM
Ignorance is Bliss said...: Unknown said...

Not the Pope, the Bible.

Yeah, but the bible is like a thousand years old, so it's really hard to understand...; 10/20/14, 1:12 PM
Wilbur said...: "God is not afraid of new things"

... because Chuck Norris is not a new thing.; 10/20/14, 1:14 PM
Paddy O said...: “Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s, and to God the things that are God’s”

But I'm just a dumb layman, so I'm sure I'm reading too much into it.

As an educated layman, I don't think you're reading too much into it.

I think he was dodging the question. He was being asked to take political sides. Pay taxes to Caesar you're supporting the colonial power and against the populist movement. Reject paying taxes, you're making a public statement against the political power and for the populist movement.

I'm not sure if he was saying those questions were below his paygrade, but that it was the wrong question to ask. How do we live according to God in the midst of any given political situation?

The question of the calling of a follower of Christ may be asked in a variety of political conditions but we are to maintain our identity in light of Christ's calling for us as particular people.

Don't get distracted by the ways the rest of the world is trying to establish power and meaning.; 10/20/14, 1:14 PM
Renee said...: @Annie

He isn't renting out the Sistine Chapel, private tours by travel companies.

For 178 dollars with AAA you get to skip the lines at the Vatican Museum snd eat lunch on grounds.

BTW the proceed for the upscale tour goes to feed the hungry....; 10/20/14, 1:15 PM
Paddy O said...: "Since Francis became pope last year, he has repeatedly broken with tradition."

This is a sign the author really isn't quite educated on the topics he's writing about.

I doubt Francis would say he's broken tradition, let alone repeatedly. The author uses the word Tradition in a very naive way, not understanding how this is used in the context of the Catholic Church.

He's done some things differently than some other Popes, but not breaking tradition.; 10/20/14, 1:18 PM
jimbino said...: I wish God, or maybe Al Gore, would just add one new thing to the Rosary, since it's been pretty boring for ages.; 10/20/14, 1:23 PM
JHapp said...: His target audience is a bunch of idiots, not the choir.; 10/20/14, 1:24 PM
Renee said...: @Paddy O

Anyone who actually reads his writings becomes sadden, he isn't that progressive....

It is amazing what the media is resorting to, to bend to their desired messaged.

I'm embarrassed how Catholics are falling for it, like Annie.; 10/20/14, 1:26 PM
carrie said...: Meaningless sound bite.; 10/20/14, 1:31 PM
Peter said...: "God is not afraid of new things" sounds like the answer to a question that was not asked.

There have been many criticisms of Vatican II, but I'm not aware that it's ever been criticized simply because it was "new."

Did Vatican II improve the Church in some ways and, if so, were the improvements worth the costs?

That's a theological question I'm hardly qualified to answer, but, it seems far more relevant than asking whether it was wrong because it was new.; 10/20/14, 1:35 PM
rhhardin said...: They added "under God" to the rosary in the 50s.; 10/20/14, 1:44 PM
paminwi said...: Renee: private event for Porsche is what others were talking about.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2014/10/17/porsche-sistine-chapel/17442763/; 10/20/14, 1:44 PM
Paul said...: There is no such thing a 'new' with God.

It's only man that finds things that are 'new' to man.; 10/20/14, 1:46 PM
Renee said...: @Panmiwi

I know. The Porchse Travel Club, AAA is a corporation too.; 10/20/14, 1:49 PM
Renee said...: You pay AAA, a corporation, money for special treatment at the Vatican Museums.

So you 'skip' the two hour wait to get in.
http://ww2.aaa.com/travel/activityDetail.seam?association.code=CAA&activityId=2390GRET3&club.viatorAuid=5729&club.viatorResponseEmail=CAATravel.ReginaNorth%40caask.ca&identity.association=CAA&identity.clubId=286&identity.officeId=998&identity.userId&club.code=286; 10/20/14, 1:52 PM
Lydia said...: carrie said...Meaningless sound bite.

True, but they seem to carry the day. This one can now be trotted out as a companion to his "who am I to judge"?; 10/20/14, 1:53 PM
Anonymous said...: This is how you pigeon hole Christians.

First, you make them all out to be terrible people. Bible thumpers. Clinging to their guns and their religion. Church lady types from Saturday Night Live.

Second, you take all those Christians who don't fit your mold of the above, and you pretend that the words they speak must really be the same as those words on the left. The progressives. If you say, "God loves you." as a Christian, it means, "God approves of everything you do!" It gets the leftist spin.

Finally, when you clarify what was meant, which never should have been clarified, they pigeon hole you back into their initial grouping. You get tricked into saying, "That's not what I meant!" and they yell, "AHA!"

Even us Christians fall for it. We should know better.; 10/20/14, 1:53 PM
Renee said...: We get fed to the lions no matter what is correct.; 10/20/14, 2:03 PM
Renee said...: We get fed to the lions no matter what is correct.; 10/20/14, 2:03 PM
Renee said...: We get fed to the lions no matter what is correct.; 10/20/14, 2:03 PM
Smilin' Jack said...: ""God is not afraid of new things.""

Of course not. That's why his main occupation these days seems to be inventing cool new diseases, like AIDS and Ebola, that He's immune to. Every time a victim dies a slow, agonizing death, an angel gets his wings.; 10/20/14, 2:08 PM
Gabriel said...: No doubt Pope Francis is trying to avoid lawsuits resulting from refusing to peform same-sex marriages, which are going on right now.

One of those consequences of legalizing same-sex marriage that was never, ever, positively, absolutely not going to happen.; 10/20/14, 2:12 PM
gerry said...: Paddy O, I think you had a typo and meant to type

"He's done some things differently than some other Popes, but not breaking Tradition."

Best regards.; 10/20/14, 2:22 PM
The Crack Emcee said...: "God is not afraid of new things."

This must refer to the white guy I saw pee on himself this morning,...; 10/20/14, 2:27 PM
traditionalguy said...: God is not afraid of His enemies, but He is afraid of breaking his Covenants that He made by swearing an oath upon Himself.

Don't blame me, it's a God thing. He wrote the book.

Those Covenants were made with a man, which seems sort of beneath Him, until He suddenly reveals Himself incarnated in a woman and born as a man, and then resurrected from a dead man to be a second Adam/man who was appointed by God's oath to be our Melchizedek High Priest, eternally.; 10/20/14, 2:44 PM
Jason said...: Watching secular journalists try to cover the Synod = lulz.; 10/20/14, 3:04 PM
Mid-Life Lawyer said...: God's view on homosexuality is probably going to remain the same, regardless of whose child is gay.; 10/20/14, 3:04 PM
The Cracker Emcee Refulgent said...: ""The work of the devil will infiltrate even into the Church in such a way that one will see Cardinals opposing Cardinals, Bishops against other Bishops. The priests who venerate Me will be scorned and opposed by their confreres (other priests). Churches and altars will be sacked. The Church will be full of those who accept compromises, and the demon will press many priests and consecrated souls to leave the service of the Lord.""

That ship sailed over a thousand years ago and is why, though raised a Catholic, I don't give a rat's ass what any Pope says.; 10/20/14, 3:23 PM
Renee said...: And being gay isnt even a sin in the Church....

sigh....

Oh and parents, love your kids (gay or straight).
Teachings on "the pelvic issues" apply the same no matter the orientation.

Very hard to practice and live out, no doubt, and not being perfect about avoiding temptation is really impossible.; 10/20/14, 3:29 PM
jr565 said...: There are no new things to God. there are permissible things to man though. And lets test that theory and see if the Pope's tolerance holds up.
Man has sex with donkey. "God is not afraid of new things" sayeth the Pope.
So, is he saying that the catholic church is now tolerant towards people having sex with donkeys?; 10/20/14, 3:30 PM
jr565 said...: Like this guy having sex with a cow:
http://connecticut.cbslocal.com/2014/02/25/former-farmington-schools-employee-charged-in-cow-sex-incident/
"God is not afraid of new things". Oh really?; 10/20/14, 3:34 PM
NotWhoIUsedtoBe said...: ...and it looks like the trial balloon crashed and burned.; 10/20/14, 3:36 PM
jr565 said...: My guess is the new pope is himself gay, and possibly a child molester.
I'm basing that on the fact that he is so open minded, despite doctrine that suggests otherwise that he might have a personal reason to normalize behavior. And also, the catholic church has had a long (recent) history of diddling little kids.
Will the pope say "God is not afraid of new things" when it comes to sex with minors in the church? Maybe he's also open minded about NAMBLA.
Not suggesting that the church isn't overly strict on gays (in my opinion). Only such a blatant push for an open mind leads down some really dark corridors. I dont' really want the catholic church to be THAT open to new things.; 10/20/14, 3:39 PM
jr565 said...: This ties into the whole argument for gay marriage and acceptance of gayness. It's pushed as an instance of having an open mind. Not it isn't. It's having an open mind about one specific topic only. The topic that the person saying they have an open mind agrees with. And you have a closed mind if you don't agree with the person with an open mind. Global warming is caused by man's use of fosil fuels. You don't agree? Well, then you have a closed mind.
Well, wouldn't your mind similarly be closed to the idea that global warming Isn't caused by man's use of fossil fuels?
I'm sick to death of the left appropriating the concept of having an open mind to mean, agreeing with exactly what the liberals say we have to agree with.; 10/20/14, 3:43 PM
Mark said...: Gabriel fails to understand the difference between a church and a for profit wedding business.

Nice false flag.; 10/20/14, 3:48 PM
Renee said...: @Mark

I have to agree, despite being ordained ministers, they were wedding vendors.; 10/20/14, 3:54 PM
Paul said...: Smilin' Jack,

I doubt God invents any 'new' diseases.

I often here people say, 'Why did God allow this' or that or such as they see such awful things happen.

But you see Jack, God gave us the burden of FREE WILL. We cause our own problems. Repeat, 'WE CAUSE OUR OWN PROBLEMS'.

Not God, but us. Greed Jack. Greed is the root of all evil (not money, but what money buys) and we humans are a greedy lot. We have envy of what others have (or we think they have.)

So don't blame God on AIDS or Ebola, or Small Pox or such. We pass it around with our ignorance (or in the case of the Dallas episode, our arrogance and hubris.); 10/20/14, 3:56 PM
Anonymous said...: By definition, God is omnipotent, God is not afraid of anything, new or old. The Pope who claims to speak for God, however, is afraid that he and his Church are outdated. His God is the creator, the mechanic who orders the world; the new God is a simulator who simulates our reality. Same difference to us humans.

The Pope should have said: The Church should not be afraid of new things.; 10/20/14, 3:57 PM
Michael said...: They are wedding vendors. But it is not uncommon for protestant churches to charge for weddings. So that is next.; 10/20/14, 3:57 PM
Renee said...: rothers and sisters, do not be afraid to welcome Christ and accept his power. Help the Pope and all those who wish to serve Christ and with Christ's power to serve the human person and the whole of mankind. Do not be afraid. Open wide the doors for Christ. To his saving power open the boundaries of States, economic and political systems, the vast fields of culture, civilization and development. Do not be afraid. Christ knows "what is in man". He alone knows it."

http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/homilies/1978/documents/hf_jp-ii_hom_19781022_inizio-pontificato_en.html; 10/20/14, 4:04 PM
jr565 said...: Elkh1 wrote:
he Pope should have said: The Church should not be afraid of new things.

really it would depend on what that new thing is.
like, the church should be open to Mohammad as the true prophet of the Christian faith. The church should be open to cannibalism. Or not hurt abortion but infanticide.
You can be so open minded your brain falls out. And if the church is that open minded there is no reason to continue being part of that church.; 10/20/14, 4:06 PM
jr565 said...: When Christ was faced with the angry mob that was going to stonet the harlot he said "let he who is without sin cast the first stone". But then after he quelled the mob he turned to the woman and said "now go and sin no more". Not sure if this pope, or the left know that there is a second part to that non judging thing. granted you shouldn't stone the sinner, and God should forgive sins, but does this Pope think there are no sins to in fact forgive. (not even saying that gayness is one of those sins).; 10/20/14, 4:18 PM
Gabriel said...: @Mark and Renee,

Yes, I'm sure the First Amendment applies only to "real" churches, just like it only applies to "real" journalists, in the dreams of progressives.

From "it's not a real church so they should have to perform same sex marriages", it is a very short step to "the only real churches are the ones that agree to perform same sex marriages".; 10/20/14, 4:23 PM
Renee said...: Maybe some of us don’t like to say this, but those who are closest to the heart of Jesus, are the biggest sinners, because He looks for them, he calls to all: ‘Come, come!’ And when they ask for an explanation, he says: ‘But, those who have good health do not need a doctor; I have come to heal, to save,’” the Pope said.'

Pope Francis; 10/20/14, 4:24 PM
Lydia said...: I don't think Francis is out to change the Church's position on these matters. The problem is that he sort of shoots from the hip, saying things that can so easily confuse.

Not all that long ago (2009), for instance, he said this about a pending same-sex marriage bill in a letter to priests in Argentina when he was Cardinal Bergoglio:
Let's not be naive, we're not talking about a simple political battle; it is a destructive pretension against the plan of God. We are not talking about a mere bill, but rather a machination of the Father of Lies that seeks to confuse and deceive the children of God.; 10/20/14, 4:37 PM
Unknown said...: But there is nothing new to God...; 10/20/14, 4:44 PM
Mark said...: Gabriel, you are really stretching it. I notice Our hostess here doesn't seem to give any credibility to this argument.

It might have truthiness, but that doesn't equal actual truth.; 10/20/14, 4:51 PM
Ambrose said...: If God is all-powerful, could He come up with a new thing that even He would be afraid of?; 10/20/14, 4:58 PM
jr565 said...: ‘But, those who have good health do not need a doctor; I have come to heal, to save,’” the Pope said.'

implying that there is something to heal. If you are accepting of all things, you would make being sick the same thing as being well. And therefore no one could be sick. it sounds like he's just sucking up to libs by pretending to be judgement free. Might as well change the name of the church.; 10/20/14, 5:24 PM
n.n said...: jr565:

Catholic or "universal" still works, but Christ no longer feels welcome with some factions.

Gabriel:

Yeah, right. And "the choice" will be normalized as a "religious" exemption under the First Amendment, granting woman an exclusive legal right to exercise a sincerely held faith to commit or contract for premeditated abortion of a wholly innocent human life in the privacy of a clinic. When storks deliver babies!; 10/20/14, 5:42 PM
n.n said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 10/20/14, 5:47 PM
n.n said...: Ambrose:

Ouroboros. You would think that an omniscient being would be capable of avoiding a paradox or circular logic traps, but perhaps not. The extra-universal domain may be fraught with such unspeakable complexity than is even imagined by mortal minds.; 10/20/14, 5:53 PM
Sharkcutie said...: It seems that most of you have forgotten what Jesus said: "Love one another as I have loved you."; 10/20/14, 6:28 PM
Paddy O said...: Gerry, indeed. Thanks.; 10/20/14, 8:42 PM
Quaestor said...: A rather thoughtless comment from the pope, no? Either:

1) God is the eternal, omnipotent and onmipresent creator of time and space, therefore the idea of newness doesn't apply to God.

2) God is constrained by the arrow of time just as we are, therefore the Abrahamic religions have got their metaphysics completely backwards.

3) God is not, therefore the pope's statement is absurd.; 10/20/14, 8:57 PM
chickelit said...: @Mark & Renee: Volokh has predicted that the pastors will prevail on First Amendment grounds; no need to go to second.; 10/20/14, 10:22 PM
chickelit said...: The argument is so simple that even a child can understand it: why would you coerce someone to say that which they do not believe?; 10/20/14, 10:26 PM
Revenant said...: But the church has recently started going down the statist path.

If by "recently" you mean "for the last 1700 years or so" then, yes, it has recently started going down the statist path.

John Paul II was helpful in the fight against Communism, but the church has historically seldom been on the right side of struggles between governments and the governed.; 10/20/14, 11:57 PM
Anonymous said...: "If by "recently" you mean "for the last 1700 years or so" then, yes, it has recently started going down the statist path.

John Paul II was helpful in the fight against Communism, but the church has historically seldom been on the right side of struggles between governments and the governed."

Anyone with a little historical understanding would know that the church was a power apart from the civil government. Thus the terms "Lords Temporal" and "Lords Spiritual", or modern, secular and religious. That was one of the points of the reformation and the result was that what was the catholic church became the state church in the different protestants countries, in other words, the secular power annexed the church.
As usual the anti-catholic has it upside down. But I suppose he thinks that he has the right on his own history and facts.; 10/21/14, 1:43 AM
Revenant said...: Anyone with a little historical understanding would know that the church was a power apart from the civil government.

Perhaps, but anyone with a substantial amount of historical understanding knows that's poppycock. The RCC was joined at the hip with European politics for well over a thousand years.; 10/21/14, 3:34 AM
Anonymous said...: "Perhaps, but anyone with a substantial amount of historical understanding knows that's poppycock. The RCC was joined at the hip with European politics for well over a thousand years."

Of course it is, and so what? Talk about apples and oranges.; 10/21/14, 3:48 AM
I Have Misplaced My Pants said...: Heh, I was married at the Hitching Post by Donald Knapp.

Many years ago.

It was pretty churchy.

Is there a reason why they can't perform the wedding services for free as a ministry, and accept donations for the upkeep of the facility and for the ministers' time?

We wrote our church and our pastor a check for our childrens' baptisms--a special offering and an honorarium--but our pastor didn't "charge" to baptize them.; 10/21/14, 7:52 AM
Renee said...: We have a donation thing as well, as suggested. But Sacraments never denied.

Just don't cry poverty, when you're dropping 15k on a wedding.

There is there falsehood about a 'big church wedding', that's doesn't cone from the Church.

Bridal parties and everyone needs a special role... Um.yeah.

Marriage is special, sure. Weddings, God help us.; 10/21/14, 8:33 AM
Renee said...: http://stmarysgvl.org/sacraments/marriage/

"Unlike the other six sacraments which are all administered by a bishop, priest, or deacon, the sacrament of matrimony is administered by the husband and wife to each other; the priest or deacon is merely the Church’s witness who blesses the union created by the exchange of consent. The marriage bond, created only by those who are truly free by God’s law to marry, is an irrevocable covenant which binds the spouses to each other for life, and the sacrament of matrimony conveys the special grace necessary to strengthen them for lifelong fidelity and growth in holiness."; 10/21/14, 8:38 AM
The Crack Emcee said...: I just heard two guys discussing how "The Devil" leaps from person to person, trying to do his dirty work.

I got as far from them as possible.

This is one huge insane asylum,...; 10/21/14, 8:42 AM
The Crack Emcee said...: "God is not afraid of new things."

Like America being culturally and politically black?

Oh, I'd say white's God is very afraid of that,...; 10/21/14, 5:29 PM